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October 15, 2011

Offensive Regression Leads to Depression

Filed under: Football — Chas @ 10:17 pm

Ugh.

So, in the last eight quarters Pitt’s offense has scored 10 points. A complete shutout in this game.

In both games the defense did their job. But the offense is wreck. While progress is is not a straight line, and there are dips and valleys. This is something else right now.

I would love to have an easy answer right now. It just does not seem that there is one. Now that Trey Anderson has not shown anything with an extended look, the fanbase seems fixated on Mark Myers. The attitude being, “what the hell, he can’t be any worse.” It should be noted that this was the opinion regarding Sunseri versus Anderson. At the very least, that theory seemed to be blown out of the water once at this point. Of course, the ABT (Anyone but Tino) sentiment is so strong that it seems to overrule all logic.

That doesn’t, however, address all the other issues. The offensive line is a mess. The wide receivers are doing nothing to help — and in fact seem to be regressing as much as the QB. The playcalling has become questionable to say the least. There is so much blame to place on the offense right now — in so many different places.

It cannot be overstated. The two best offensive linemen for Pitt have been out with injury. The depth is simply not there. And it shows. Both in Pitt’s offense, and how the defenses are playing. For two straight weeks the defenses have been bringing the pressure, loading up and taking their chances with 0ne-on-one coverage on the receivers. We can talk about how, “it is what it is,” but what it is: a mess

There is no doubt that Sunseri or Anderson have been bad. They are struggling with the reads. They are not getting the ball out. At the same time, not only are they having little time to make the decision, they are not getting passing lanes. Complain about the size all you want, the O-line is not blocking well. Defenders are not just bringing pressure, but being able to get their arms up to knock and deflect passes as well as obscure the vision. That’s also on an O-line that is not able to hold a block.

Then there are the receivers. Mike Shanahan talked of leading. Of owning this team. He has been a complete non-factor. Same with Devin Street. The worst thing is they show no desire. No urgency. Nothing. If the ball isn’t perfect. If there is a defender in the vicinity. They don’t seem to want to make the effort. They let themselves get bumped off the play. They don’t try to get the separation. For all their talk of buying into the new offense, they are playing like they are in the old system.

Then there is the play calling. The offense mustered a meager 61 plays. Ray Graham was touched it only 15 times. (12 rushes and 3 passes). Yes the Utah D-line was lined up to stuff the run most of the game — and were effective  — but considering how tight the game really was, the coaching staff overthought the issue. At the very least, and I know the mantra is to go, go, go, trying to run a little more in the second half would have given the defense a couple more minutes to get a blow.

The extra frustration is that the defense has played so well. Despite the issues with the linebacking corp. Despite not getting the turnovers as expected. Despite not nearly getting the consistent pressure on the quarterback and looking more vulnerable to the run. They have made adjustments. They have done enough. They have kept Pitt in games.

The issues are all on the offense. I honestly do not have a good answer on how to fix things right now. Not sure the coaches do either at the moment.





@FRank,

Well the offense scored 44 points just 2 weeks ago.
And thru 3 quarters at Iowa it scored 27 points. (the last FG drive started in the 3rd q)

Obviously the QB’s that have played so far have many shortcomings(no pun intended).

However the coaches have not made the necessary adjustments to try and overcome anything since the 2nd quarter of the Rutgers game. Or if they have, they haven’t worked.

Yesterday with the wind and two weak armed qb’s, just made it more apparent to all who witnessed it, that we have no vertical passing game AT ALL. And Utah had a pretty good D, I think they were ranked in the Top 20 nationally in Defense.

Kind of reminded me of the Sun Bowl a couple years ago, another windy day and Stull’s arm was exposed as weak as well. And we had a tough time running the ball that game:

These stats look eerily similar to yesterday:

Pitt, making its first bowl appearance since the 2004 season and the first under coach Dave Wanndstedt, led the Big East in scoring this season, averaging 29.3 points per game. But there was no sign of offense this time, not with standout tailback LeSean McCoy held to 85 yards rushing. Quarterback Bill Stull was 7-for-24 for 52 yards with one interception.

We were really fortunate Utah was playing WITHOUT it’s top WR and their first string QB(Jordan Wynn) or it could have got REALLY UGLY. I mean like 52-14 or so. As it was, they played with a backup QB, (first start of the year) and they had a RB run for 176 yards and pretty much controlled the clock.

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 3:43 pm

Our QB’s combined stats yesterday (9 for 30 for 50 yards with 2 picks) were very close to Stull’s in the Sun Bowl game (7 for 24 for 52 yds with 1 pick).

Against teams with a strong defense, a weak armed QB who can’t stretch the field vertically, will also cause your rushing offense to come to a complete stall(again no pun intended). And we’re talking about NFL caliber type RB talent here gents, in McCoy & Graham. And that 2008 team had a decent if not good O-line.

YOU CAN’T WIN AGAINST STRONG DEFENSES WITH QB’S WITH POP-GUN ARMS. The ND game was close ONLY because their offense self-destructed with penalties and such.

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 3:53 pm

JW you may say i am wrong that is ok .
you may say i am crazythat is ok.

but dont tell me what to post only chas may do that.
i dont tell you what to post.

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.16.11 @ 4:08 pm

Chas this is what i dont get you all dont want myers.
But myers can stretch the field vertically, which the outher QB cant .

And untill we can stretch the field the outher teams will shut us down.

So it seams to me EMel is right and we should all want myers what is he going to do lose a game tino is doing that now so what is the difference.

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.16.11 @ 4:22 pm

Frankcan,

I have nothing against Myers. It is the attitude so many are showing regarding him — which is the same that everyone showed with Anderson. “He can’t be worse than Tino.” And I get that. I really do. Sunseri has gotten worse into the season. But I don’t know that it is really true that he can’t be worse. That he would really be better.

Everyone wanted Tino gone and Anderson to get a real chance. I think he got a pretty fair one yesterday. Anyone convinced?

We saw yesterday, that Anderson is definitely not ready. I’m not ready to declare him never going to be good enough — just that he isn’t ready now. He is not prepared for the speed from HS to college defenses are showing. It’s one thing when an opposing defense is rushing only 3 or 4. It’s something else, when they are bringing pressure. Something Anderson and the rest of us saw last week and this. I had and still don’t have a problem with his chances. He needed them. We needed to see it.

Myers may be a good QB. Hell, he may turn out to be an NFL QB at some point. That doesn’t mean he would be a good QB in college. Or that he would perform well in Pitt’s present offense.

I guess that my problem is that the overwhelming reasons for wanting Myers out there seem to be 1) Anyone But Tino and 2) we (fans) deserve to see for ourselves whether Myers is good enough or not to be a QB in this offense. People are choosing to see what they want to see. They point out where everyone says he has a tremendous arm — beat writers, recruiting sites, etc. — as evidence that he should play. Yet will discount or ignore the same sources that say he doesn’t fit the offense, has a slow delivery, may have some attitude problems, and/or that the coaches have not been enamored with him.

Comment by Chas 10.16.11 @ 4:55 pm

Should be easy to pick any remaining PITT wins this year. The team would have to have a terrible defense, and that is not capable of blitzing or a D2 team.

Shit I don’t think we have any D2 teams left on the schedule.

Uconn as of last week looked like a sure win, what with them getting trounced by WVU and losing the previous week to Western Michigan and Vanderbilt before that. But they held USF to 10 points yesterday and won. So that will be a struggle, I’m assuming. Don’t know if they blitz much, but now they will if Pasqualoni knows anything. L-ville was another one we penciled in as a win, not so much now. Their defense gave up it’s most points in one game this season yesterday. which was ONLY 25 points to a pretty good offensive team, Cincy. And the game is in L-ville. Cuse is a possibility, but that is AFTER the WVU game(sic) on Dec. 2nd and the team might be lost by then, after getting thrashed by WVU.

Oy Veh !

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 4:34 pm

I’ll give it the rest of the year – not much choice, but it sure seems like Graham is a one trick pony, who can’t make adjustments. And whoever is calling the plays – they don’t seem to aware of the yard and down situation. And whoever said this guy is a breath of fresh air – well, all I can say is one man’s fresh is another’s stench.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 10.16.11 @ 4:36 pm

whoops hit the wrong key,

Oy Vey ! (and then some)

At least the Stillers won today. But not very impressively, but a win is a win. Just ask State Penn. 6-1 really.

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 4:40 pm

I like Anderson’s quickness and body language and think the kid needs a full week of reps with the 1st team and then a full game or two without fear of being yanked (unless he’s truly truly awful) to see what we’ve got. Why not? We know Tino just doesn’t have it — its okay, we tried. Give the kid a ball cap and clipboard and put him/us out of misery.

Make the rest of the season a tryout for Anderson and Myers…give them both 2-3 starts and see who plays better, then let them compete again in the Spring and Summer camps and see what’s what.

Oddly, I’m optimistic about both of them and feel they could be pretty good if given some playing time. Time for the Tino era to end and turn the page…no shame but just need to move on now.

Comment by Matt N. 10.16.11 @ 4:44 pm

when is the next press conference from TG, would love to hear what he is thinking about now and who the qb will be or if there is a competition now.

Comment by chicken little 10.16.11 @ 4:47 pm

This is kind of interesting. G J Kinne, the QB at Tulsa when Graham was there was a transfer from the U. of Texas. Broke all kinds of records in HS and got recruited by The Longhorns.

TG was fortunate enough to get him as a tranfer;
Here’s his bio:

link to tulsahurricane.com

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 4:51 pm

However Kinne’s first year as a starter was 2009 and after starting 4-1, TG’s Tulsa went on to lose 6 straight games in a row. Obviously ‘lost’ the team to go on that kind of skid in C-USA.

They did rebound to win their final game of the year, sort of like Wanny winning at Cincy last year after the team quiting against WVU.

link to tulsahurricane.com

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 4:55 pm

I posted 2009, because that was the year that was between Gus Malzahn(Auburn) as OC and Chad Morris (Clemson) as OC. TG has never had Calvin McGee as his OC, nor has McGee or Norvell worked together before.

Just trying to get a handle on some of these strange play calls.

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 5:23 pm

And you think there will be QB competition.
I will belive it if there is a different QB under center not till then.

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.16.11 @ 5:27 pm

I think we need to quit the idea of looking at Myers just for his size. If I recall Chris Leak was about 5’10 at Florida and won a national championship. Tino didn’t have a whole lot of issues with it last year (Anderson, however, might be too short as his passes were knocked down a lot yesterday).

I can see some looking at Myers and saying we obviously don’t know what the coaches know or see. But just in this past week Tim Tebow went from the same assessment in Denver to starter. So yes, the coaches know more and see more than we ever will but sometimes they are stubborn and wrong.

I believe that there is a 3 way split for our offensive issues and they are well documented (qb/line/wr). But to have 100 yards of total offense, against any defense no matter how new or how much the personnel doesn’t fit your system just isn’t right. If this is high-octane then 250 yards should be an embarrassment. 100 means there are some real deep issues.

We all asked for more than a pro style system and now we have it we want something else. Honestly, I just hope there is some progression this year and by next year no one even remembers these conversations.

Comment by bdubb 10.16.11 @ 5:37 pm

I agree Chas, it’s not fair at all to rate Anderson as being a total washout based on a quarter and a half of play and in those playing conditions against a Top 20 defense. If the O-line can’t pass block for Tino, then they can’t pass block for Anderson either. If the Wr’s aren’t running the correct routes for Tino then they aren’t for Trey as well.

Anderson IS better at avoiding the rush and much better at unloading the ball in lieu of a taking a sack.

Now when you unload the ball in lieu of a sack, you’re stats are going to take a hit. Ie. you’re not going to complete 65% of your passes.

Also I wasn’t at the game, but it was windy from all accounts and that had to be a factor with passing as well. Especially since both these QB’s don’t possess strong arms. Which is why it more than raised my eyebrow when they were calling long down & outs for Anderson in those kind of conditions. I blogged earlier, one would think they would call pass routes that would have a better chance of being completed and build up the kid’s confidence a little. In earlier appearances this year, the kid plays a series or two and they immediately call a 40-50 yard bomb for him to try and complete. Like they did at the end of the 1rst half yesterday. Again, the probability of that type of pass being completed, is slim to none in that situation. Let the kid build some confidence with dink & dunk passes like they do for Tino, then maybe try some longer passes.

I’ve wrote this before, trying to ‘Catch Lightning in a Bottle’.

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 5:43 pm

I’m pretty sure our savior QB coming in next year isn’t known for his size, either.

Comment by JW 10.16.11 @ 5:44 pm

JW,

To add to that, Drew Brees was 6’0″ and he seemed to do just fine at Purdue as well. Lots of passing out of the shotgun if I recall, but whatever works. He had a good, accurate arm and it suited him well in college.

Comment by Stoosh 10.16.11 @ 5:52 pm

BDubb,

Couldn’t agree any more with the sentiment expressed in your last paragraph of your last post.

Comment by Stoosh 10.16.11 @ 5:53 pm

Chas i get your point i would go with attitude problem.
but we know he can pass no doubt abought that .
may be to save the season TG should forgive and forget.

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.16.11 @ 6:06 pm

The “Myers Gang” JUST WANTS TO SEE WHAT THE FRIGGIN’ KID CAN DO. Sheesh. And while he may not pan out, there is good reason to question the judgment of this coaching staff. We have seen what Sunseri and Anderson can’t do. Pitt has lost 4 of its last 5, and now sits 3-4, making it a real longshot, barring a ton of forfeitures, we win the national championship. Of course, we are still in the running for the coveted Marinatto Trophy.

What could he do for a series or 2? Throw an interception? We’ve done that. Miss a wide open receiver? We’ve done that too. Fumble? Take a sack? We’ve been there. We’re used to it. It is becoming our mantra.

Comment by PO'd Panther 10.16.11 @ 6:20 pm

I’m amazed by how some people on this board defer completely to the coaches views (unspecified and often unstated views) on talent evaluation. How many times do you have to hear about stories like Big Ben not starting at QB till his senior year until you realize coaches are just people like you and me, prone to the same dumb moves, stubborn stances, or corrupt behaviors — and in the case of football coaches, not exactly the world’s smartest subset. Just ’cause someone says something on tv doesn’t make it truthful, and just ’cause a coach or blogger mentions something (attitude problem, for example) doesn’t make it so.

Do your own thinking, even though its easier not to.

Comment by Matt N. 10.16.11 @ 6:28 pm

From my posts it is obvious that I don’t know much about football, but I try to learn from those more knowledgeable. Some of the things that I’ve learned:

• DW was a mediocre coach.
• Tino Sunseri can’t throw a pass more than 20 yards. Furthermore, he is too short to see over the linemen to enable him to even throw a pass.
• Wannstedt can’t recruit, period.
• Dave Wannstedt can’t recruit offensive linemen
• DW can’t recruit QB’s

Of course the posters are right.
In 2009 Pitt won 10 games and ended up No. 15 in the rankings. Pitt failed to win the BE because of a muffed hold for an extra point. A good coach would have instructed the holder to not muff the snap, and we would have been No. 1 in the BE. Ergo, it was all DW’s fault.
BTW, our QB was Billy Stull who was ranked either 1st or 2nd in the BE. He completed 65.1% of his passes; had 21 TD passes and only 8 interceptions. DW could not have recruited him because DW did not recruit any good QB’s.

The following year, Pitt only tied for first. They did not win the BE outright because DW did not tell Ray Graham that he should not fumble the ball deep in UConn territory. The QB in 2010 couldn’t throw the ball more than 20 yards and was too short to see over the linemen, especially in a Pro System. The QB, however, did manage to complete 64.5% of his passes; throw 16 TD passes; and throw only 9 interceptions.

DW can’t recruit OL. Right again. Our QB’s the last two years completed 2/3rd’s of their pass attempts while sitting on there asses from being sacked. In the last four years, McCoy, Lewis and Graham had absolutely no help from the OL in piling up their yardage.

DW can’t recruit, period. When seven rookies from Pitt made NFL rosters this year, some naive, less astute observers might conclude that DW recruits had a little talent, but not me. I read this board. The people who ranked DW’s 2011 recruit class in the top 20 in the nation should read this board in order to become more educated.

Hey, and just because DW recruited the top rated QB’s in PA, OH, and NJ in the last couple of years, and just because his prior QB recruits racked up some impressive numbers the last couple of years, and just because Pitt had winning records, that doesn’t mean that the QB’s were competent players. Just read the posts on this board.

Comment by BigGuy 10.16.11 @ 6:41 pm

I am actually wondering why Gonzalez was never given a shot to run this offense. He was a 4-star coming out of high school, and he has the speed to run the triple option. I know he is a WR now, so moving him back to QB is extremely unlikely (especially with Voytik coming), but I wonder why he never even got a shot.

Comment by Panther3321 10.16.11 @ 6:48 pm

spring camp, fall camp. Gonzalez was given a shot. By most accounts of those who saw him, he is the best runner and worst thrower, both by a decent margin.

Big Guy you are flat out ignoring the arguments other people pointed out. He did recruit some good OL (albeit never enough), I wouldn’t disagree with that. But look at what he left the team with. It was clearly going downhill because players were realizing how terrible of a game coach he was and weren’t lining up to play for him. None of the current OL are very promising.

His QB’s were horrendous aside from Bill Stull’s one season, and nobody would consider Stull very talented (in fact most people called for his head every week). Do you actually think Bostick, Stull, K Smith, Tino Sunseri are talented QB’s?

If Wannstedt had recruited a decent QB he would still be coaching because he would have won titles with the other talent he had (which he did do a good job of getting at some positions) (unless his coaching got in the way).

Comment by OntarioLett'sGoPitt 10.16.11 @ 7:13 pm

Big Guy, U are spot on!
I still think the best coaches adapt systems to talent and as the talent evolves to what they want/need do more their system.

Comment by Kurt Nestel 10.16.11 @ 7:19 pm

Wait til Graham gets his players???! Seriously?? It will be Miami, Va Tech, FSU, Clemson, etc… on the schedule then. It isn’t going to get better because the competition will be that much better!

Comment by Smiling Dave Wannstedt 10.16.11 @ 7:32 pm

Oh, if I must I must.

Wanny was barely a mediocre coach.
42-31 at Pitt in six years. %57 winning. I mean, c’mon.

Losses to Ohio and Bowling Green. No, not Ohio St., Ohio Bobcats.

Never went to a BCS bowl in six years in the absolute worst football conference, and a conference with only 8 members, which makes it a hell of a lot easier. Nope, nothing.

Only finished in the top 25 one year, out of six!!!

With all that talent he recruited, if that is the case, great qbs and off lineman, you mean he could only finish in the top 20 with all that great talent???????

Tino can complete a pass longer than 20 yards? Ok, I’ll keep watching and waiting!!! LOL

Pitt tied for the conference championship???

Please , stop that, it’s embarrassing.

Pitt tied WVU and UCONN with 5-2 records. Ok, mathematically and technically, yes, we had the same record.

C’mon, you’re better than that, we tied them with 5-2 records, and lost to UCONN and got absolutely whipped by West Virginia!!!

If you wanna really call that tying for a championship, ok, that’s certainly your right.

I’ll send you a Big East champions tee shirt if I can find one.

Where are all his recruits on this team???
Go ahead and call it coaching, but if you watch any football, you can tell this team does not have much. We were all lead to believe this team was “loaded” with talent.

Where???? Theres a reason Pitt wasn’t ranked in anyones top 25 this summer. Everyone kept saying, “oh, wow, they shoud be good”, but no one in the college football world had them on their radar????

Nope, no revisionist history here. They may do it in our school systems, but not here.

Todd Graham may suck, he may not do a thing here, that may be…..

but Wanny stunk at Chicago, quit and walked out on his team in Miami, and was so-so at Pitt.

His niche is assistant coach, and he’s doing well in Buffalo. Good for him, but, no bcs bowls in 6 years at Pitt, in one hell of a lousy football conference, he’s lucky he gets the tag mediocre.

Comment by Dan 10.16.11 @ 8:03 pm

Graham is a fraud. It will take three to four years for everyone to finally accept it. I am on record as saying it after game 6.

What we witnessed on Sat was a coach who didnt know how to make a game time adjustment. He mustered 50 yards passing and less than 75 rushing. He has the nations best back in Ray Graham. Utah spotted us a two score lead.

What else does he need? Oh that’s right, his own players. Then perhaps he can hold a lead and get more than 50 yrds out of his QB’s.

The coach is a bust.

Comment by PittFanInAtlanta 10.16.11 @ 8:09 pm

EMEL and POD hit it on the numbers but it is no mystery why the beat writers throw around vague cliches like slow release to explain someone like Myers ranked 11 best QB in the country and 4th strongest arm, started in the national H.S. all-star game and has the size any major college would love to get in a QB but is playing behind a QB recruited only by a couple schools as a QB and one who was recruited by no one and is at present is a moderate high school QB. Do not forget these same writers feed us the line the coaches told them that Anderson had the skills to play at this level (a malicious joke). The same vague reports about Myers shelter the coaches from being open about their incompetence concerning evaluation of player personnel – not playing Clemmons/running a blocking back in front of Graham and other questionable player movements. The beat press is told to promote the Pitt football progam by their editors. Worse the press has yet to touch on the obvious disdain the other players have for Anderson being #2 QB and getting a schloarship. It is insulting to each of them Graham and his coaches lost respect of this team when they did something no other major college program ever did; recruit a walk on from out of state for QB who had not been recruited by any colleges.

Comment by DRW 10.16.11 @ 8:12 pm

Stoosh,

Thanks for the OC update. I don’t feel any better but I have a better understanding of who these guys are thanks to your post. Any thoughts on how we recruit with a losing record? Concerned that today’s losses will impact future teams via the recruiting spiral.

Comment by IH8PITT 10.16.11 @ 8:18 pm

Wait, don’t you mean Sal Sunseri is telling the beat writers what to write? Ahahahahaha. Conspiracy theories… can’t get enough.

These players don’t care if their QB took a boat from Station Square to Heinz Field for the first time to start the game. They want someone to get rid of the ball, put it on the money, that’s it. If Graham and his coaches recruited someone from Montana tomorrow who could do that, they’d welcome him with open arms. Every time Anderson brought the team onto the field Saturday, Ray Graham was pumping him up, encouraging him. If Todd Graham lost the team when he recruited Anderson, nobody told the team’s best player. And if nobody is paying attention to how No.1 is carrying himself, then there’s bigger personality issues that go beyond coaching.

Comment by JW 10.16.11 @ 8:30 pm

IH8PITT Rivals team recruiting rankings has pitt as the 31 best class at this time and number 1 in the big east.

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.16.11 @ 8:44 pm

The last 2 games took us to the abyss. We’ve been seriously Abramoff’ed.

Revolt, my friends. Occupy the Cathedral. Demand coach give back $1.75 million (he gets $250k for effort but no more).

CEO pay in Oakland? Whodathunk?

Comment by steve 10.16.11 @ 8:59 pm

I understand the anger and frustration with this team. I share those feelings with all of you. I feel that we need to have a little more rational thought and less emotional thought to come up with some answers.

For those of you in the “Graham sucks” mode. I realize that TG put a bullseye on his back when he came in spouting hyperbole about championships of the BCS caliber. I am not so sure that he claimed that it will happen this season. I am sure that an experienced coach can see the issues if we “somewhat less experienced coaches” can see them. I would be shocked if he is not calling on his experience to correct or minnimize these issues. In the end, you have only the tools(techniques and personnel) that are available to to you currently. I am not ready to proclaim his coaching tenure as a failure after just seven games.

On another note of rational thinking, I believe that I was taught at our fine educational institution that the three main ingredients to success are system, people and execution. I am not ready to indict the system at this early stage. So let’s review people. Do we have enough talent to compete with the teams that we played or will play. I believe that the only team that had more talent than us so far was ND. The analytical approach leads me to believe that the issues lie in execution. I have read numerous posts about terrible coaching. I have read a few that talk about dropped passes and I have read a few that discuss the dropped passes being a coaching issue or “losing the team” issue. “Nonsense”. These players all have dreams of playing at the next level and considerale egos. As a former NFL player said once “You are taught as a player that every week is an audition due to the no-guaranteed nature of contracts”. Well nothing is guaranteed to these guys in colleges with regards to their futures. Seriously, are they going to go before a TV audience and NFL scouts to purposely screw up? I doubt it. The bottom line is players have to make plays that the system affords them.(Not hold the ball too long and make the catches) Until the execution level rises, there will not be much progress.

Comment by jw in Raleigh 10.16.11 @ 9:11 pm

Rivals recruiting rankings number 1 in big east.
But if we were in the ACC this year we would be ranked 6th out of 14 teams.

Comment by FRANKCAN 10.16.11 @ 9:27 pm

IH8PITT,

Not as difficult as it may seem. He’s already pulled a quarterback (Voytik) and running back (Shell) that many believe to be among the top 5-10 nationally at their respective positions. Voytik took part in the Elite 11 passing camps, so he’s solid and from what I’ve read, he’s got experience with the spread-option that Graham runs. His offers from Clemson and Miss. State would speak to that.

Adam Bisnowaty (offers from Florida, Penn State, Mich. State and WVU) is regarded as one of the top 40-50 offensive linemen in the country.

A lot of these kids talk to each other. Many of them know each other from the same 7-on-7 camps that they’ve attended, All-Star games that they played in, etc. High-profile players like Shell and Voytik will essentially do some recruiting on their own, in part by virtue of their status as elite recruits and also because they’ll be able to pull some of these other kids they’ve met through these camps.

As I said above, a lot of these kids are smart. They’ve seen the kind of success that these schemes CAN have – some of them orchestrated by McGee himself at WVU and Michigan. Graham can sell many recruits on immediate playing time, and the hope of building this thing into a program that contends yearly in the ACC.

Comment by Stoosh 10.16.11 @ 9:31 pm

JW in Raleigh,

You need to cease and desist with that kind of logic and rational reasoning ’round these parts.

You should know it’s much more fun to perpetuate ridiculous assertions that the receivers are blatantly and purposely blowing their routes (thereby sabotaging their futures) because they can’t stand either of the two quarterbacks and/or their coach.

(/sarcasm, obviously)

Haha

Comment by Stoosh 10.16.11 @ 9:40 pm

Hey JW in Raleigh,

Perhaps you should watch a movie called:

North Dallas Forty

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 10:02 pm

I’m not calling for TG’s head. I think what most people are questioning are some of these Wannstedtian in game decisions and calls from TG.
(I’m assuming he’s making these calls)

We are only 7 games in of the TG era and there are a whole list of in-game calls that boggles the mind.
Especially if that mind has seen countless football games and seen the correct moves and as Pitt alum we have seen the unbelievable bonehead swinging gate calls.

Some of us probably have better memories than others I would guess. And/or we’re just more seasoned but not marinated. haha

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 10:09 pm

Soon enough, Jamie Dixon will make you smile.

Comment by H.Land Pitt 10.16.11 @ 10:12 pm

Those would be play calls to be more definitive.

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 10:13 pm

I can say for myself, I lived thru the Foge Fazio era and didn’t lose my mind.

That in itself qualifies me for the Wesley Posvar Award for beleaguered alumni.

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 10:17 pm

Hey Emel,
I happen to have a copy of North Dallas Forty in my VHS library. It will remain buried like the rest of my past history:)(Although I did find it funny).

Comment by jw in Raleigh 10.16.11 @ 10:28 pm

JW in Raleigh: My new favorite poster. And I love it when Chas uses facts against rabid rumor and speculation. I believe it was Reagan who said, “facts are stubborn things.” I’m sure someone said it before him…

Comment by Bowling Green Panther 10.16.11 @ 10:29 pm

Ontario wrote: “But look at what he left the team with. It was clearly going downhill because players were realizing how terrible of a game coach he was and weren’t lining up to play for him”

OntarioLetts, help me educate the professional recruit evaluators. These guys were saying that the 2011 class that DW recruited was his best ever and was the tops in the BE. We should inform them that they are full of crap and that recruiting was clearly going downhill as you can see by your evaluation. Another thing. I’m ticked off that TG lied to us. TG said that the cupboard definitively was not bare. You and I know that the cupboard was completely bare. Not a single good player returned from last year’s team.

Comment by BigGuy 10.16.11 @ 11:00 pm

Well… loss or not loss, we still have a PITT themed Hyundai commercial that runs nationally:

link to youtube.com

That’s something right guys?

Right…?

::crickets::

Comment by Jimbo Covert's My Dad 10.16.11 @ 11:02 pm

@ JW

I’m jealous. Can you make a copy for me?

DVD or VHS would work, thank you.

North Dallas 40 was very to the point of how things work in the NFL. Look no hands ! haha

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 11:21 pm

I’m ticked off that TG lied to us. TG said that the cupboard definitively was not bare. You and I know that the cupboard was completely bare. Not a single good player returned from last year’s team.
Comment by BigGuy 10.16.11 @ 11:00 pm

Based on what the Reverand Zeise wrote in the PG the other day, don’t think they wanted to play with Tinny anymore. Go figure.

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 11:24 pm

@Jimbo,

Love it, P-I-T-T, let’s go Pitt!

Did I spot a script Pitt on the sweatshirt of the first person who rubbed the Panther’s nose?

Comment by EMel 10.16.11 @ 11:28 pm

Let’s call it what it was…

DW was the best recruiter Pitt had in YEARS!! But he just had zero idea what to do with them when they got to Pitt.

Remember Aaron Berry? We killed this guy every week on these boards when he was at Pitt. He’s a borderline starter/nickleback on a 5-1 NFL team right now, after going undrafted.

Now, Berry’s not a superstar in the league, but just to be in that position means that the guy had some talent.

So he can get it done in the pros, he was a great recruit out of high school, but he stunk in college.

This tells me that while, yes, Wannstedt was a great recruiter, he just didn’t know how to coach all of these guys up if they weren’t running backs or defensive linemen.

My only two knocks on his recruiting are that, he got slack on recruiting linemen his last couple of years, and really only had one bigtime QB recruit in Pat Bostick (and I know he stunk, but nobody knew he was going to be a bad college QB when he was in HS and was getting a ton of scholarship offers. There were a lot of schools that would’ve gladly taken Pat if we didn’t get him. There was great competition for him at the time, and Wanny got him to go to Pitt).

So there, I’ve told the TRUTH about Dave Wannstedt. Good recruiter, players loved him, shitty coach.

Now we can move on from him, ok?

Comment by Jimbo Covert's My Dad 10.16.11 @ 11:29 pm

“Tino at his BEST can only stretch the field horizontally. And that’s not going to cut it anymore.”

Actually any QB back there is going to be “stretched on the field horizontally” with this O-line

Comment by square44 10.16.11 @ 11:34 pm

@EMel,

What was TG supposed to do? After the debacle that lied at the hands of Smilin Steve, he had little choice.

The Pitt fans were livid and many were done. I remember when he came to Pitt he became a great ambassador. He had to talk up the team. Come in here and say…the cupboard is bare and it becomes a fiasco. Pitt gave this clown 2 million to tell us this? We could’ve heard that for a whole lot less from Tom Bradley.

You can’t erase history. There was a large contigent of Pitt fans that had had it with this program. TG had to do what he did.

And note I was a Bradley guy. But I understand what TG had to do. He may have many flaws but I am not gonna hold him accountable on that one.

DaveD

Comment by DaveD 10.17.11 @ 1:38 am

This isn’t the pros, where you can cut players who don’t fit your system, or are bad apples in the locker room. TG has committed three cardinal sins:

1 Overpromise and underdeliver

2 Shove his “system” down the throats
of 18 year old kids trying to get an
an education while playing football
part time.

3 Exposed himself as a buffoon on Saturdays
making Walt Harris’ swinging gate look noble

I said there would be 35,000 for the Utah game and I was wrong. There were 25,000. UConn may ony bring 20,000. Nordy and Steve better do the only thing left to do with this burning building. Make Jamie the highest paid coach in America, lest he leave and the cathedral finally collapses.

Comment by wally 10.17.11 @ 7:48 am

Covert’s Dad — Aaron Berry did not stink in college. In fact, he made all-BE two years in a row. Berry was just another one who was unmercifully and underservingly citicized by most on this site apparently because it was the thing to do.

Remember Bill Stull .. a little over 2 years ago, he was villified as a terrible QB, and almost everyone on this site was convinced that TINO should have been playing instead … seems kind of silly now.

Tino is currently the person receiving all the blame, but at least this past game may have shown that (1) Anderson may not be the present answer that many people think, and (2) as Chas pointed out, there are many issues on offense, noy just the QB.

Tino replaced Wanny as the culprit of Pitt Blather who was blamed for everything wrong with Pitt FB .. and I see is still being blamed. Like it or not, Wanny did not recruit for a high octane, spread offense.

Also consider this … in his very 1st college start, Tino was easily more productive against the very same school that he looked so ineffective against this past Saturday. And you may remember that the OL was not settled then nor was Dion at full strength.

Comment by wbb 10.17.11 @ 8:04 am

I hope Myers gets a chance before he transfers to Delware.

Comment by Pittastic 10.17.11 @ 8:18 am

amen wbb…it’s painful as hell to watch this debacle…but these are growing pains. we’ve endured so much pain as pitt fans that we can handle one year of historically bad football to get a new system in place. a system that has worked in college…but it has to be run by players fit for it. anyone that thought pitt was going to win 8 or 9 games wasn’t thinking. we dont have the kind of athletes to make a 180 degree turn in philosophy over nite. these are players that run a C- pro style offense. what do you think they are going to do in a gimmicky college spread/hurry up.

im judging TC’s success this year on the recruiting trail…and on that level, he’s doing very well. and with the signing of shell…we could start to see some very nice pieces fall into place.

dont get so pissy about this season…its over. we didnt get ripped off or duped by TC. of course he’s going to tell us that he thought we would win. if he had any other attitude than we’d have real problems. the possible upside of the system that is being installed now is still exciting. nothing that happens in year one can change that.

Comment by boomer 10.17.11 @ 11:06 am

Good point Chas on the magazine articles but it only proves what we know that they rank the players in ascending order in their opinion based on whatever objective measures they employ. Myers rated 25 places above Tino at QB, Trey has no rating at national or among top 500 players in Texas. Also Tino was not first team all Pennsylvania QB as Myers was in Ohio or was he invited to (among 46 other players in the nation) The USA national high school all-star game that he started and throw 2 touchdowns. The narratives of the magazines of course embellish all the positives of the players to sell the magazine by exciting the fan. As for the five QBs above Myers, Simms is the #2 QB at Alabama and has seen playing time. The other three could be redshirt freshmand like Myers or sophmores. However I do not think I am stepping out on a limb to assume they were recruited and are playing in top level programs behind established successful upperclass QBs a different scenario than playing behind Tino and Tiny.

Comment by DRW 10.17.11 @ 11:27 am

@ BigGuy – you posted “In 2009 Pitt won 10 games and ended up No. 15 in the rankings. Pitt failed to win the BE because of a muffed hold for an extra point. A good coach would have instructed the holder to not muff the snap, and we would have been No. 1 in the BE. Ergo, it was all DW’s fault.”

In fact, it was not the muffed snap that blew the game, it was the complete lack or willingness to adjust to not kicking off to Gilyard the ENTIRE game. Gilyard had 266 return yards! DW was the special teams and defensive guru but could not come up with any way to hold onto a 20 point lead. THAT is the fault of DW & why he was ran out of town. He was too stubborn for his own good.

Whether or not Graham is going to follow in his footsteps, we shall see. I loved the adjustments made going into the USF game, but definitely regressed since then.

Comment by TheBigA 10.17.11 @ 11:55 am

What was TG supposed to do? After the debacle that lied at the hands of Smilin Steve, he had little choice.
Comment by DaveD 10.17.11 @ 1:38 am

DaveD , I was only responding from a blog from another blogger. Go back and reread please.

Comment by EMel 10.17.11 @ 1:06 pm

Like everyone else, I’m scratching my head a bit about some of the coaching decsions, but the bottom line is that no one is executing on the field, and very few guys look like they are playing that hard – which is nothing new. They are giving up on plays all over the field. They don’t look like they really care that much. For one of the team leaders to then go on a rant accusing the other team of dirty play is just pathetic and childish. This all pretty much demonstrates that the culture of excuses and lack of discipline we had under Wannstedt is still a major problem because the leaders of this team are a product of it.

Wanny’s teams underperformed and lacked the level of fire, passion, or discipline that good teams have. IMO that’s because he didn’t inspire it, and I think a lot of players came here because they saw Wanny as a pipeline to the NFL, not because they really wanted to put anything on the line to win for Pitt. The leaders of this team came up in that culture, and they still look like they have that same old mindset to me.

Unfortunately, I think we are only going to turn a corner when Graham is able to fill the team with his recruits – not just one’s that fit the system better, but one’s that have a better attitude.

Comment by Infamous 10.17.11 @ 1:42 pm

@Emel,

My bad thought you were stating not quoting. Regardless of who said it I stand by my point though. He was left little choice after the fiasco smilin Steve pulled. 😉

DaveD

Comment by DaveD 10.17.11 @ 4:30 pm

Wbb – in any football offense you can think of the guy who receives the snap from center is the guy who is ultimately responsibly for getting the play off to a reasonable chance of success. That is magnified when a passing play is run where it falls on the QB to ensure there is any chance of success at all.

Whether you like it or not Sunseri is in that position and, on in the main, he’s been failing at it this season. Is every play that fails Sunseri’s fault? Of course not, there is enough blame to go around on the offense – and you paint with a very wide brush when you don’t acknowledge that has been recognized on here also.

But you point to the fact that he was recruited in a different offense as a excuse for his poor play… That does not answer why he can’t get a pass of in the required time or makes poor decisions even after taking every QB1 snap since the beginning of April. Damn, how much time does he need to adapt to something different. he has the physical skills to do it – he just hasn’t executed with any semblance of consistency.

Maybe it is unfortunate that he’s been put in this position, in that I’ll agree with you, but he can’t be absolved for inferior play just because of that.

Comment by Reed 10.17.11 @ 5:58 pm

We all loved Chuck Noll, Hall of Fame coach, 4 Super Bowl wins, has a street named after him, and will probably be nominated for sainthood if the Rooney’s have their way. What most of us forget is that Noll didn’t win until Bradshaw showed up and didn’t win much after Bradshaw left. We should wait until Graham gets the QB he wants before we judge him as a coach.

Comment by 66Goat 10.17.11 @ 7:38 pm

When I was in high school we played Westinghouse and they still ran the single wing. So we ran a 4-5 defence against them. Yes a 4-5, that 4 defensive linemen and 5 linebackers. That leaves only 2 defensive backs who are essentually playing as safeties. In the single wing, for those who younger, the ball is snapped directly back to the fullback like the wildcat does today and they have one extra blocker. Since it’s difficult to pass out of the single wing, we would stunt and shoot the gaps and disrupt everything. In reality that’s what Rutgers did. They bitzed and put pressure on the quarterback figuring that they would get to him or disrupt the play. They really wern’t afraid of being burned deep. So until the Panthers can complete some passes downfield, expect to see more of the same.

Comment by Justinian 10.17.11 @ 7:46 pm

None of this was Dave Wannstedt’s fault nor was it Walt Harris’ fault when Wanny came in and didn’t have the type players he needed. They ran different systems and looked for and recuited different types of players. Dave Wannstedt recruited the types athletes that he felt fit his system. Tod Graham will have to do the same. The bummer about all of this is, that we will have to live through another rebuilding job. There is no way to sugar coat it. What I wanted initially was someone who would run a similar system, so he could effectively utilize the personnel already there. It’s tough to pound square pegs through round holes.

Comment by Justinian 10.17.11 @ 8:14 pm

^^^ Well, I for one am not going to call for Todd Graham’s head on a platter until he goes 5-7 in his third year as his predecessor did. If that happens then I’ll want a change.

Comment by Reed 10.17.11 @ 9:36 pm

Reed, you have to stop throwing rational thought and patience into your sports viewpoints. Sports fans, whether rational or not during their day to day activities, leave rational thought at the stadium gates and unleash their emotional/irrational alter egos during sports. How else can a fan explain away painting his/her face and going shirtless in freezing temperatures?

Comment by jw in Raleigh 10.17.11 @ 11:17 pm

Thanks for using the time and effort to write something so interesting.

My blog:
Simulation Rachat Crédit rachatdecredit.net

Comment by Hilda 10.18.11 @ 5:35 am

JW, I’m actually not that rational off this board – just ask anyone who watches PITT football with me. I tone it down a lot for Chas’s sake. For instance, I scream, rant and tear my hair out at Sunseri’s play sometimes and I was very disappointed in Anderson’s play also but on here I try to offer rational reasons why they are playing QB for Graham instead of Myers or Gonzalez.

But I think everyone who writes articles on this board, and the commenters who weigh-in, tries to offer differing viewpoints and play devil’s advocate to keep the discussions fresh and interesting.

That’s why I agreed when Chas asked me to help out. PITT Blather is heads and shoulders above any other board about PITT football IMO and the reason is that we don’t have a lot of in-fighting, personal insults or thread hijacking on here.

For the most part it’s like friends who just want to talk about this subject like we were sitting around somewhere with a beer in our hands… and we all want to keep it that way. Chas does a great job at that.

Comment by Reed 10.18.11 @ 5:45 am

Every QB at PITT has won a state championship for their high school. They were all winners and still are. Maybe it’s the play calling at Pitt that sucks. A few weeks ago it was try Trey Anderson now it’s try Myers or Gonzalez….so if TG tries Myers and he “sucks” then tries Gonzalez and he “sucks” then it will leave all you wonderful people to try out for the QB position.

Comment by FrustratedwithPITTfans 10.18.11 @ 11:59 pm

^^^ And Pat Bostick was a five star champion QB in HS. So what is your point? You can easily name the QBs DW recruited who either haven’t progressed as expected, or just failed, which pretty much points to the utter inability for DW and staff to develop QBs to play at the college level.

Bill Stull
Kevan Smith
Dexter Davidson
Greg Cross
Pat Bostick
Tino Sunseri
Kolby Gray
Anthony Gonzalez
Mark Myers

Which ones out of all those was a success story? Only one and three got moved to other positions. Two of them, Cross and Gonzalez couldn’t throw a pass to save their lives. There are only two true starters on that list in Stull and Sunseri – they are the flag bearers for QB play under Wannstedt. How does that make you feel?

Remember, Palko was a Harris recruit and developed under him. That leaves Bill Stull as DW’s only actual success story – for half his starting career.

I totally disagree that it is the playcalling that hinders these kids – especially when you see them do so well, and they really have, in practices and scrimmages. There just isn’t real D1 success possibilities there – save for maybe Mark Myers after he transfers.

Comment by Reed 10.19.11 @ 8:11 am

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