February 5, 2014

The Numbers Are Stable

Filed under: ACC,Conference,Football,Recruiting — Chas @ 12:50 pm

Last year, there was a wide variance on Pitt’s recruiting class in terms of where it ranked against other programs. From 20 to greater than 40.

This year, the consensus is far less spread out. once more has Pitt outside their top-40 (and 9th overall in the ACC). says #42. #43 and 247 at #44.

The loss of Wade Freebeck probably dropped Pitt anywhere from 1 to 3 spots in the rankings.

ESPNcfb2014 Scoutcfb2014 Rivalscfb2014 247cfb2014

How does it compare in the ACC?

As already mentioned ESPN has Pitt 9th. As does 247sports says 8th and has Pitt 7th.

Aggregating them very carelessly, here’s the composite ACC rankings.

1. FSU (unanimous – 4)

2. Miami (unanimous – 8)

3. Clemson (13 pts)

4.  tie VT (20 pts)

4. tie UNC (20 pts)

6. NC St. (24 pts, high #3, low #7)

7. UVa (26 pts, high #4, low #7)

8. Pitt (33 pts)

9. tie BC (39 pts, high #8, low #12)

9. tie Ville (39 pts, high #8, low #12)

11. Cuse (44 pts, high #10, low #13)

12. GT (46 pts, high #10, low #13)

13. Duke (51 pts, high #11, low #14)

14. WF (54 pts, high #13, low 14)

Yes, I know Coach Chryst is big on development. On finding the diamonds-in-the rough. I know the rationalizations when the numbers in the rankings are low are to be more dismissive of them. To point out the misses. That’s fine. I get it.

I’m not angerly disappointed. It’s just find myself unable to shake the feeling that the recruiting should be a little better than where it is.

… should have said that Chryst was the one talking about the backs playing both ways

Comment by wbb 02.05.14 @ 4:32 pm

Chad and Trey both will get plenty of reps this spring

Comment by wbb 02.05.14 @ 4:35 pm

I’m not sure where all of this PC is great with QB’s at Whisky talk came from. Outside Russell Wilson (which was an already made product) they underachieved in the passing game. They had game managers, not game changers. Im not bagging HCPC just wondering why most think he’s a quarterback genius.


Im in BIG 10 land so Whisky talk and games on this stupid regional network are regular.

Comment by Jbizz 02.05.14 @ 4:39 pm

hey Jbizz…

How about Scott Tolzien. Two star recruit.

Not heisman trophy numbers, but this is pretty good production from a two star guy. Especially in 2010.

2009 Wisconsin 328 211 64% 2,705 16 11
2010 Wisconsin 266 194 73% 2,459 16 6

Comment by Atlanta Panther 02.05.14 @ 4:49 pm

On good authority, I know that Chryst hasn’t been limited on paying assistants. He has hired his assistants because they is who he hired. Period.

Wiscy and Pitt are vastly different schools in different conferences. And maybe if Wiscy had better recruits they might have made the Rose Bowl more often.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.05.14 @ 4:52 pm

Also, if Engram in fact leaves that’s a huge blow. Especially since Paul Chryst is unable to hire qualified assistants.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.05.14 @ 4:55 pm

Rose bowl in 2010.

Citrus bowl in 2009, finished at #16.

I’d take either of those finishes.

Comment by Atlanta Panther 02.05.14 @ 4:56 pm


yea I know…and I’m on the first trip to Mars !

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 4:57 pm

right Jbizz

Wisky is a running attack school..always has been since 1990.

Other than R. Wilson who ‘fell into their laps’ after Tom O’Brien told Wilson he didn’t want him back for a 5th season, they produced NO Qb’s of note. Unless you want to say Brooks Bollinger.
But I did say…..’of note’.

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 5:01 pm

@ Ward

Or maybe they would have won the games. 0-3

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 5:07 pm

Wisky is 11-14 in Bowl games.

Not much history prior to Barry A.

And to think he wanted the Pitt job in 1990 and we gave it to Paul Hackett.

That was a brilliant move !

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 5:11 pm

I might be a nut case for this but i would like 8 or 9 wins a year and would not think of that as mediocrity,
i would think 6 and 6 would be and 7 and 5 every year would be .
but i think 8 or 9 wins a year with a 10 win season every 4 years would suit me just fine.
not that i would not like to win them all i would
but if you give me 8 or 9 wins every year i am fine with that and would not bitch.

Comment by Frankcan 02.05.14 @ 5:14 pm

Concerning Engram leaving. He has done well and it is preferable he continue but if he has a better opportunity it isn’t like when Jackie Sherill left. Life will go on.

Comment by spiritofsection22 02.05.14 @ 5:17 pm

Hard Hitting:

“On defense there’s some good developmental prospects but not one- not one- is an elite prospect. That’s twelve recruits, on a defense that’s easy for any top prospect to get immediate playing time, and not one is a big time prospect. That doesn’t mean that I don’t like some of these defensive players. Connor Dintino is intriguing. The linebackers may turn out to be good, and the secondary has a lot of potential. But when you have twelve prospects and all twelve are developmental guys, then you need to recruit better. The truth is, I’m not sure if any of these players on defense can be in the two deep this season.

But the most troubling thing is that the staff clearly looks for developmental prospects almost exclusively.”

Perhaps because the defensive staff is in a developmental stage itself.

You recruit ppl like yourself. We don’t have any stud coaches on defense so therefore we don’t get any stud players on defense.

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 5:26 pm

I’m with you Frank. 8 games is the floor once the program gets chugging.

Comment by Atlanta Panther 02.05.14 @ 5:26 pm

8 is the minimum number, I think most of us agree.

8 in the regular season !

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 5:32 pm

@ Emel, Big Frickin Deal. If you live anywhere in western PA, you can drive to Mars in less than a couple hours. $hit, when I lived in Aliquippa I’d go past the “Moon” routinely just getting to the airport. LOL!

Don’t let them kill your new found Pitt enthusiasm Upitt, I haven’t bought my plane ticket yet but I’m looking forward to hitting “Twin Peaks” with you during the Final Four Weekend!

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.05.14 @ 5:37 pm

And BTW Emel, the main reason that Pitt is showing it’s growing pains in getting great recruits is that as long as most of these kids can remember, Pitt has sucked!

Winning solves many ills. Eight wins minimum, this year!

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.05.14 @ 5:41 pm

I’d be happy with 8 win seasons as the absolute worse season with 9 to 10 win seasons sprinkled in and every few years having a legit shot at a conference title.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.05.14 @ 5:47 pm

Yeppers Doc… only…. 8 will be Enough… in the Regular season.

Mars was only a short trip up Route 8 from me in North Park to RT. 228 or if you knew the back way thru the old Treesdale Apple Orchard Farm it was quicker than that. (which is now an Arnold Palmer Golf Course CC.)

Beautiful ride it was, I miss it, since it’s so flat down here. Also miss all the golf courses that were in that area of Pgh. to Butler.

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 5:47 pm

In fact when I was a teen, my sister had her horsie stabled up in the Mars Area. So I know the area of The Planets very well.

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 5:50 pm

Atlanta Panther program gets chugging i like that and will use it on here from time to time.
and the sooner we get chugging the better.

Comment by Frankcan 02.05.14 @ 5:51 pm

Spirit, If Bobby Engram leaves for the NFL I understand he going to higher level. Jackie Sherrill walked away from a Pitt team with the potential to win a National title, for more money. He never again achieved the same level of success that he had a Pitt. I hope Bobby Engram stays, but there is nothing any of us can do about it, if he goes.

Comment by Justinian 02.05.14 @ 5:58 pm

Bobby being courted by the pros tells you how good he is. I think it depends on how much he likes recruiting, he is really good at that too.

Best Penn State guy we know. Give him a raise and a shiny new office.

Comment by gc 02.05.14 @ 6:17 pm

Justinian, Please don’t rewrite History. Jack Sherill might have gotten a lot more money at AnM but that isn’t why he left. He left because our stupid ass administration wouldn’t let him open up the company purse in New Orleans at the Sugar Bowl. He had us at the pinnacle of college football and they decided they wanted to show him who was boss. The program has never recovered. It was a control issue, not reimbursement that cost us Sherrill. We are still paying for their stupidity.

Comment by spiritofsection22 02.05.14 @ 6:21 pm

Did the same thing to PITT’s best HC ever. That being Jock Sutherland at the Rose Bowl.

History does repeat itself….especially in Oakland.

Comment by Emel 02.05.14 @ 6:24 pm

Doc – I will be ready to get tuned up that night. Haha. As a side note, worry not boys……If Engram leaves Paul will replace him in about 7 months with a guy he knows from Wisconsin whose brother sells cheese to a farmer 3 miles down the road from his brother’s deer camp. That guy will be a perfect fit and won’t cause any problems. Haha.

Comment by Upittbaseball 02.05.14 @ 6:28 pm

Concerning Engram leaving. He has done well and it is preferable he continue but if he has a better opportunity it isn’t like when Jackie Sherill left. Life will go on.
Comment by spiritofsection22 02.05.14 @ 5:17 pm


Spirit…actually life for Pitt FB didn’t go on after Sherill left. The fact is that Pitt FB went into the dumper for 30+ years and counting.

Pitt can ill afford to lose Engram…

Comment by Jackagain 02.05.14 @ 6:44 pm

How do you loose a star quarterback recruit at the last minute? Somebody wasn’t minding the store. I remember Tony Dorsett recounting how Jackie Sherrill recruited him and lived with him. Iagree if we loose Engram we loose the brightist star on the staff. This is not good management. You can only use play right away for so long to recruit Freeback should have had a career path at QB that had him chafing at the bit. More discouragement.

Comment by Pitt 60 02.05.14 @ 8:37 pm

If we lose Engram we need to replace him with some one who played WR in the NFL or the kids wont think he knows what he is doeing.
they will behind his back think Engram told us this or that.
it wont work to plug in just any one he must have played or we will be screwed.

Comment by Frankcan 02.05.14 @ 9:05 pm

Spirit, I do remember that Sherrill was steamed over lunch money for recruits or something similarly stupid by Bosic and company.

Comment by Justinian 02.05.14 @ 9:55 pm

i think engram is far and away pitt’s best recruiter. the annoying thing is that PC doesn’t seem interested in such mundane things as hiring good recruiters and recruiters with connections in hotbeds of football talent. i envy psu for opening the purse strings and going after an up and coming (and also accomplished) coach like franklin. what a concept…hiring an energetic and aggressive young coach who is charismatic and whom kids want to play for…sigh

Comment by auggie from latrobe 02.05.14 @ 10:21 pm

Winning is not a guarantee on getting good recruits. WVU is ranked above us. Virginia, who has had a losing record for years is in the top 20. Personality and salesmanship can go a long way in recruiting. We have no personality from our coaches so winning is going to have to suffice.

Comment by Caw Miller 02.06.14 @ 7:54 am

So Pitt finishes 7-6 with a national ranking of between 52-62 depending on which ranking you follow. Pitt follows that with a recruiting class between 40-48 depending on which service you follow. As such, Pitt recruited better than the team performance. So, this is a positive trend in my opinion. Pitt is recruiting better than their record indicates.

Next year, Pitt should be in the 35-45 rankings with an 8-4/8-5 final record. With stability in the coaching staff, it should lead to a recruiting class in the top 25-35, again an improvement.

A bigger problem is not extending the coach. This will be used against Pitt, especially by the school to the east. Their coach will have 5 or 6 years left on a contract and he will guarantee a kids parents that contractually, he will take care of their son during his entire collegiate experience. Pitt will not be able to say that to a parent. This is another example of why Steve Pederson must go. He doesn’t get it. It is important. If you believe in what the coach is doing, extend him. If you don’t, let the contract run out. Apparently, Pederson is not a believer yet he continues to smile through it. The smiling assassin strikes again!

Comment by dhuffdaddy 02.06.14 @ 8:26 am

Don’t worry about Engram, I’m sure Chryst has some random noname guy he used to be a WR at Wiscy that he has lined up for the job.

Extend Chryst? Hahahaha.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.06.14 @ 8:36 am

I won’t jump ship on PC if it doesn’t happen, but with next years schedule, Pitt fans and alumni deserve to see at least 8 wins If Voytek is healthy. There may potentially not be one top 25 team on their schedule at least to start the season. Miami and NC are the only 2 teams even flirting with a top 25 to start the year.

Comment by Pitt Stadium Section 23 for life 02.06.14 @ 2:17 pm

The truth Is regarding Pitt–there’s always something missing. The first two years under Paul Cryst they lost games they simply should have one. The same could be said of the recruiting class-there are players that they should have added to this class like to Dravon Henry and Montei Nicholson that they should have had but did not get. Imagine that Class! Just like we imagine beating Youngstown St and Cincy last year and Navy and NC this season. It’s always “something”. Once PC figures out how to solve the “something” issue, they will pull it all together.

Comment by Td 02.06.14 @ 4:34 pm

And truthfully, for anybody paying attention, recruiting class rankings, and recruiting in general are not the things holding Pitt back this year, it was coaching and not getting the right pieces in the right spots at the right time. PC reminds me of DW, with a minute, slight upgrade. The program deserves better.

Comment by Td 02.06.14 @ 4:40 pm

we have no new post we just lost engram are wr coach

Comment by Frankcan 02.06.14 @ 6:43 pm

Welp, Penn States recruits that previously committed before Franklin were held by Larry Johnson. There wasn’t a mass defection to OSU when he left because OSU was full and with equal or better talent. Franklin brought in the WR who bailed on Rutgers.

@Ward – you laugh at the extend Chryst hypothesis. Assuming by that response, that you disagree. Given Pitt’s Administrative non-support, starting with the AD, what would you propose? Another coaching carousel? Watch what you ask for, you might get a wifebeater and a one year wonder yet again. Pitt has to extend the guy if you are committed to what he is doing. If he goes 9-3 next year, he will have suitors and you can kiss him goodbye. He goes 8-4 and you do what? Extend or let him wait. If you wait, he is as good as gone and the negative recruiting about him not being around fills the ears of parents. Kind of like Engram. Had Pitt upped him when they realized he could recruit, we probably aren’t in this position if in fact he is gone.

Comment by dhuffdaddy 02.06.14 @ 9:09 pm

Jeff Hafley was the greatest recruiter i have ever seen truly find diamonds in the rough..ex dion lewis. I dont want to.hate on Matt House but i truly wish they would of went with someone with experience especially for PC being a first time head coach. Lets hope whoever becomes the next wr coach is as good as a recruiter as engram was. How bout hiring a special teams coach/recruiter. We can always dream

Comment by Tsingtao44 02.06.14 @ 11:05 pm

Keith Patterson bailed on the Hoopies and is going back to Fraudie at ASU. That’s 4 Defenvive Coordinators in 4 years for the Hoopies. link to

Comment by Panther Fan in Hoopieland 02.07.14 @ 8:34 am

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