No PITT fan likes it when a young man, who mutually agreed with PITT to enroll as a student athlete leaves the program. Whether it is on his own, he gets moved on by the staff or can’t handle the disciplinary requirements and are dismissed before they have a chance to complete their full four years toward a degree, it always seems a disappointment to all concerned. We fans get attached to these players as early as their recruitment and then we’re sometimes surprised and disappointed when players are here one minute and gone the next. Poof!
Since the recent, not totally surprising, news of rising rsSO DB Titus Howard being dismissed by the Narduzzi for cause, and the departures of rsSR QB Trey Anderson, SO OL Conner Hayes, rsSR DE Devin Cook (transferred to the Richmond Spiders) and rsSR Luke Maclean this may be a good point in time to look at what kind of attrition we have had in the past and what we may see coming out of this year’s spring practices and fall camp.
Addressing the four players above it seems as if at least two of them who played their HS football in Michigan, Conner Hayes and Luke Maclean, may have designs to join their old coach Paul Chryst. That will be an interesting thing to keep an eye on as neither was recruited by Wisconsin or by Narduzzi’s Michigan State before signing with PITT.
In addition to the four players above we previously had rsSR WR Ronald Jones leave as did SO WR Adonis Jennings, both announcing the move soon after Narduzzi was hired. In Jennings case that decision might have been formed as much as 10 months before:
“It appears, though, that the seeds of a transfer were sown even before Chryst’s departure. From Rivals.com:
He (Jennings) was recruited to Pitt by then-receivers coach Bobby Engram, who left the Panthers for a job with the Baltimore Ravens shortly after Signing Day. Engram informed Jennings that he was leaving prior to Signing Day, but Jennings didn’t have any time to visit other schools and stuck with Pitt.
A source close to Jennings indicated that Engram’s departure played a role in Jennings’ decision to transfer, even though it happened prior to Signing Day. One potential transfer destination is Rutgers. Jennings had verbally committed to the Scarlet Knights before flipping to the Panthers a month before signing day. Arkansas and Iowa could be landing spots as well .” (The link is an interesting take on Jenning’s situation at the end of his recruitment).
That sort of puts a lid on speculation that a disgruntled Jennings bagged out because of being misused during the season by the previous staff, but who really knows what the final motivation is for these decisions? It’s possible that he’d be gone no matter if he had started or redshirted.
A while ago we posted an article about which 5th year Seniors might be asked to move on by the new coaching staff. With these latest departures and the impending spring practice it may be the time to review that list again. Here it is:
5th year seniors:
Trey Anderson QB – Gone, will graduate in the spring.
Ronald Jones WR – Left program.
Khaynin Mosley-Smith DL
Devin Cook DL – Gone, transferred and graduated.
Nicholas Grigsby LB
Lafayette Pitts DB
Ejuan Price DL
Artie Rowell OL
David Murphy LS
Jameel Poteat RB SR (transferred in 2014 and is eligible this season).
Three of those guys are already gone and that makes me think they might have had a sit-down with the new staff and discussed their future final year at PITT. Even though all of them had some small amounts playing time during their time here none of them looked to be getting more action on the field in ‘15 than they had before.
The remaining 5th year guys will be contributors, possibly starters, this upcoming season and I’m sure the new staff wants to keep them on-board. An exception maybe the transfer RB from Cincinnati, Jameel Poteat, since he is projected to be at the tail end of the pack of RBs we have for use next season. I’d keep him on the roster for a few reasons one of which is to keep that Bishop McDevitt / Harrisburg area connection strong. That school has put some fine players into the college ranks. Another is he could move to DB if the measle plague his the defensive backfield.
Three off season departures of 4th year and under players, especially after a full coaching staff change, is not very much. In fact, if we stay at this number it will be great turnover relative to other regular years. Trying to figure out exactly why they leave is another story. Some players transfer because they were recruited by the old staff and leave early because the new staff might decide to go in a different direction on offense or defense (yes, please!) and they realize that they won’t be as valued as they were under the old regime, or they might just dislike the new staff altogether. Of course there are also the players who are just disgruntled for personal reasons and feel they don’t want to play for the school any longer.
Add to that disciplinary issues that drive kids out and Titus Howard comes to mind as do lots of other failures we have had; Elijah Fields for everything under the sun, Drew Carswell and Eric Williams for drug associations, Jeff Knox and Steve Williams for violence toward women as did Tra’von Chapman, and my favorite, Sherod Murdoch’s attempt to (1) beat up Jason Pinkston then (2) threaten suicide by locking himself in a dorm room with a machete. He was NOT on the Dean’s List at the end of the semester. Some are dismissed after failing the NCAA drug testing as it is a mandatory dismissal if positive. Others may fail one of PITT’s random test and the university chooses to dismiss him (not mandatory). Those are just a few of many examples and we have had some years where this happened on a regular basis.
However, more personnel movements happen after the spring practices and over the summer toward the beginning of fall camp. By that point the new staff has held coaches and players meetings and such but the first real opportunity to work together is during the spring drills which start on March 15th. Any players who are ‘on the bubble’ as to a decision to leave, or the staff if it is figuring out if that player has a future here or not, take the pulse of things during that spring camp. It is really the first time these new coaches have a chance to get their hands on the kids in a physical football setting because the NCAA mandates exactly how much time, and when, they can interact over the ‘off season’.
Most players who are leaving due to non-discipline reasons tend to go right after the spring drills so they can enroll as soon as possible in another school and get into that school’s fall camp so they can play immediately if it isn’t a D1 program. If it is D1 they have to sit out a year, but they still want to get accepted by another school as fast as possible because those spots close quickly after the national spring practices.
As to the near future at PITT, I’m assuming that there will be some more departures but nothing like we saw from the Wannstedt to Graham or the Graham to Chryst situations. As you can tell by the table below PITT is no stranger to large attrition over the years. We got hit hard some years and administrative turmoil will do that to existing recruiting classes and future planning. Just last week we were discussing on here that in Paul Chryst’s first two years at the helm we saw 38 players leave or be dismissed from the program. That is a huge number and speaks to one of the reasons attrition happens; a new HC comes in and cleans house by getting rid of any marginal talent for the staff’s plans or players who buck the system by their negative actions.
We can pick almost any recruiting class and see a large percentage of players who didn’t finish out two, three or four years. 5th year seniors leaving not included in the table below. Just for example, let’s look at the recruiting classes of the last three PITT Head Coaches:
| Recruiting Class/Year | Head Coach | Recruits in class | Attrition prior to 4 years | % who left program |
| 2005 | Wannstedt | 23 | 6 | 27% |
| 2006 | Wannstedt | 27 | 11 | 41% |
| 2007 | Wannstedt | 24 | 9 | 36% |
| 2008 | Wannstedt | 19 | 5 | 21% |
| 2009 | Wannstedt | 20 | 7 | 35% |
| 2010 | Wannstedt | 24 | 13 | 54% |
| 2011 | DW/Graham | 21 | 14 | 67% |
| 2012 | Graham/Chryst | 16 | 7 | 44% |
| 2013 | Chryst | 27 | 3 | 11% |
| ’05 – ‘13 | Totals: | 201 | 75 | 37% |
Yikes! Lest we forget exactly what happened in recruiting right after Wannstedt was fired, here is a recap from a good article written at the time
A dozen of the players who had made pledges to Pitt have since decommitted, including New Jersey receiver Bill Belton, Bishop McDevitt running back Jameel Poteat, Pottsgrove cornerback Terrell Chestnut, New Jersey defensive tackle Marquise Wright and East Stroudsburg safety Kyshoen Jarrett. Even New Jersey linebacker Quinton Alston, who once was trying to persuade other prospect to consider Pitt, has bolted; in fact, all five Pitt commits from New Jersey reopened their recruitments when secondary coach Jeff Hafley left to go to Rutgers.
Ouch redux! That is how a problem with the administration’s handling of things can effect a recruiting class writ large. Imagine what 2013 and 2014’s seasons would have been like with those guys on the field…. at least we got Poteat back.
This is an interesting table as it shows not only the rather low rates under Wannstedt’s first few years but also reflects the level of angst and bitterness that were present later on because of PITT’s horrid head coaching carousel. From the 2010 recruiting class until now at least 42% (plus Jennings) of the players recruited didn’t make it a full four years in the program. I’m not going to go out and figure what other schools attrition rates are, but from random single year checks on other Power Five teams our three year spread of 54%, 67% and 44% losses is way above the norm.
These levels of departures are what we see more and more these days in college football. It used to be back in the olden times when a recruit signed on to a school he usually stayed for the full four years, played football as he was used by the coaches and worked toward a undergrad degree. But times have changed and now we see more and more D1 level players drop down in competition level to try to get starting jobs and catch the eyes of NFL scouts while playing at smaller schools. For instance Mark Myers, Tommie Campbell and our current IUP players Drew Carswell, Salath Williams and, via Wisconsin, Brock DeCicco did this and there are many more over the years.
That is a lot of kids, and in some cases very talented ones, departing PITT prematurely and it is a trend we hope will slow considerably with the present and future rosters that will be full of Chryst and Narduzzi recruits. I believe this will happen because of the orderly and positive transition of Chryst leaving PITT and Narduzzi being hired, and to the fact that both HCs were well liked and respected by the young men they had playing for them.
Really glad to see that things worked out for Mark Myers after what happened a Pitt. Also be nice to see Poteat get a little glory this year and the end of his college journey.
As the article concludes it appears the odds are good that we will now do very well with our recruiting and results on the field going forward.
LET’S GO PITT!!!!
I guess ESPN likes the perks when they travel to Miami to do game, than the ones in Pittsburgh. Maybe someone is related to Neil Shapiro. ha
All it proves, is nothing, absolutely nothing…can stop us from going 6-6. With accompanying no-name bowl.
The city of Pittsburgh and it’s citizens will not allow Oakland to have one ever again, IMO that is, because Oakland is the Jewell in the Crown of the City.
This horse is probably already beaten dead, but allow me to flog it one more time. Most days at work, during lunch I skim the Trib on-line, followed by the Post-Gazette. When I get to the sports, I’m looking for Pitt articles, so it usually doesn’t take long, and then I’m on to the Blather for some real news.
But I have to ask again, what the hell is up with the Post-Gazette Pitt football blog??? Warner’s last post was signing day, 22 days ago. I could maybe excuse it since it is the off season, but since Warner’s last post, Audrey Snyder has posted 23 articles on the Ped St. blog. Shame on the PG.
But just win, man. Takes care of everything.
And for as much as everyone bitches about not having an on campus stadium… you don’t hear much from the only ones with a legit gripe… the students.
You start winning Coastal titles and even they won’t bitch too much about their shitty bus ride… and it is shitty.
Hell, if you’re playing Miami the day after Thanksgiving with a trip to Charlotte on the line, they might even show up and stay the whole game.
Just win… everything else is excuses.
1) Warner has been assigned to cover both Pens’ games and Pitt womens’ BB over the past month
2) there has been no real news in Pitt FB except for the recruits who show up at Pitt BB games.
One of the reasons Werner looks so bad is because his PSU counterpart reports on everything remoteley connected to PSU athletics, from Board of Trustees meetings to dance marathons. (yes, the FB coach and team were present at the the marathon, but this was an activiity where all functions of the PSU community participated — what else to do in Sate College last weekend?)
While I would like to see more things from Werner about Pitt FB, I am even more gratified that we don’t see these incesssant tweets about everything ike we see from his PSU counterpart (she even does and 2nd ICYMI tweet for every initial tweet.)
Being the male chauvinist that I am, my impression of her is a gril who just never shuts the fuck up!
@ Iron Duke – One of the reasons I can post so much football stuff during these doldrum times is because I don’t get paid for it – so I can take hours during my free time and expound on pretty untimely subjects. Because of that I caution comparing these articles I’ve been doing with the newspapers’ stuff, at least as far as volume goes because it is just not fair to the beat writers. The have, as wbb pointed out, different obligations to sports other than football and their bosses set budgets they have to work under. Some are paid salaries and some are paid by the word, either way the Boss won’t shell out for something that isn’t NEWS worthy.
@ Boston – I’ll differ that the students are the only ones that matter these days. More and more it is the alumni who are donating money, the Club Seat buyers who are being willingly extorted to ‘donate’ for a right to buy the best seats and the TV contracts who drive college football. Sad to say but there it is.
@ Justinian – in my years of really following PITT football in depth I’d say it is about 50/50 whether recruits like the shared facilities better than an on-campus stadium, especially if that on-campus stadium is PSU or OSU who are sold out every game. If a kid is undecided between them and us they almost always go to PSU due in large part to the football atmosphere. We are just never going to be able to compete with them in that area so we have to entice them in other ways, which I have no idea what they are.
Without looking at national trends, I’d bet all my scripted Pitt game-used stuff that player turnover is highly correlated with coach turnover.
What a sport, eh?
Meanwhile, we get to get in our cushy SUVs and luxury sedans with heated seats and AC, park wherever we want to set up our tailgates (I prefer the Allegheny Commons on the Northside), enter and exit the game at our leisure, and proceed with our postgame plans as we see fit.
As far as the boosters, alumni, and ticket holders are concerned… you hit on it directly. They are WILLING to go to the games at Heinz.
No one is forcing them to donate, or buy tickets… and if someone doesn’t want to go to a game at Heinz… then don’t. I promise they wouldn’t be the only person doing something else with their Saturday afternoon. And frankly, they should be bitching more about being extorted for premium seats and surface lot passes, than the location of the stadium.
More than anything… the stadium issue is just so far down the list of things that actually need to be addressed, that it’s a non-issue. That’s why the Chancellor barely even addressed it.
Comment by Reed 02.26.15 @ 1:42 pm
Just win, man. It’s literally the cure for everything…. recruiting, gameday atmosphere, attendance…
Just win.
posted by none other than …….. drum roll ..
Sam Werner via PG tweet
In the past I have opposed most comments made by you. But finally you have stated an opinion I can support. During the Athletic Department survey I replied that winning 15 home games in a row would make my football attendance more enjoyable. As you indicated winning will fill those yellow seats, while an on campus stadium would be nice it is not necessary – Just Win !
Right on, man!
Now I can’t get that Fleetwood Mac song out of my head!!! Great article none the less. Thanks!
Comment by pittman4ever 02.26.15 @ 10:41 am
————————————————
pittman4ever,
Reed’s next column will be from the coaches’ perspective called “Go Your Own Way”
But taking the cake, because it already is a regular, “Monday Morning”
bright yellow seats miles from campus!!
Comment by Reed 02.26.15 @ 1:42 pm
Reed
It has to come down to what a kid enjoys and values. State College is great, if you want a small town that is centered 100% on the University. Surrounded by nothing in the middle of nowhere.
Pgh offers a real city environment with major sports teams and the life of a city. Pitt is a small part of that bigger whole.
I can’t imagine going to school in a small town like State College. I would be totally bored.
H2P
No wonder the Rooney’s are balking at paying $ 200,000 a year towards the free ride to town.
What an effen boondoggle.
Now you’re on to something! Just put up 4 T-buildings (temporary classrooms) on the parking lot like they have at elementary, middle, and high schools. The North Shore would be a great spot to hold oceanography and environmental classes… and maybe even sociology!!!! :>)
and tell me…are those of us who still want to push for an on campus stadium crazy? The stadium issue has died down on our side but professional sports writers keep pointing out how the lack of one hurts the program.
One player even stated he rather play on the road in a campus stadium.
So..it seems reasonable to assume those fans who keep suggesting the professional stadium shared with the Steelers reallty helps are smoking whatever was in Cornhole’s pipe.
I only read praise for Nordenberg which I do not share. I feel he lacked foresight. Plus his devotion to Pederson lead us down the wrong direction for Pitt sports. Yes, basketball is important, but Pitt WAS a football school and neither Nordenberg or Pederson saw the priority/ importance of football over everything else.
What dumb shits!
We should have thought of a Carrier dome from the beginning.
You’re right. I don’t think he can play immediately, but yea, just what the Doc ordered. His offer sheet was legit.
Second that multi-use domed thing. Sure worked for the Cuse. Don’t know if any of you ever attended at Archibold Stadium but it made Pitt Stadium look like a palace!
Go to Google Earth and focus in on the Pitt campus. I did this after looking at the plan for a new stadium next to the Vet’s Hospital.
The long range plan should be to raise all the structures including the Cost Center, Trees Hall, and new sports arenas. Acquire all the adjacent property, mostly vacant down to Centre Ave. This property should be adequate for a multi- purpose football stadium, new pool, new baseball, soccer, track and all physical fitness related programs, classrooms, dormitories, parking etc. Get the City of Pgh and Port Authority to develop a master redevelopment plan and run the T from the City, through the Hill out to Shadyside and East Liberty with a spur into central Oakland for Pitt, CMU and the Hospitals. Provide incentives for business to develop Housing, Office and Retail Space in the adjacent areas. Property values will increase due to the proximity to the new stadium, the hospitals, University, public transportation etc.
Make Pitt the destination school for all athletes, and athletic and physical education. Tie this in with all health programs and UPMC.
Make it a showplace.
Start raising money now, because it should be a 2 billion dollar project that could revitalize a huge part of the city and expand the Pitt Campus.
Heinz Field is a detriment to Pitt because all of the visiting team player’s are more pumped about the opportunity to play in the big boy stadium, than our own guys. When you have an on-campus stadium, you can start to build your brand, your gameday experience, your traditions. You can’t do any of those on the north side, sorry.
Interesting Columbus fact is that Ohio State is teaming up with the city and doing promotional videos integrating each with the other. It’s brilliant marketing and Pitt can use that idea to recruit against WVU and PSU. It is very effective.
It’s funny how we complain so hard about the woman writing article after article about PSU. If she would do the same for Pitt, we would lover her. Best way to get more Pitt news is NEVER to read a psu article. In fact, go back and click on any Pitt article 10 times. We do that and Pitt will be “trending” at the gazetter and we will see more articles on pitt football follow in kind. C’mon gents and ladies, this isn’t rocket science, unless of course you are rocket science.
If that mean getting rid of that dumb sweet Caroline song do it
Wanna win big? Better build on-house super facilities. Successful athletic programs bring increased applications and subsequently, a growing endowment. Pitt can do this responsibly. Someone needs the balls to propose it, promote it, and execute it. Now that would be a legacy to be proud of.
If Hendrix transfers from Vols how many years of eligibility will he have left ?
Leaving Tennessee cause he just didn’t like it there? OK then.
Definitely worth the risk. C’mon Duzzi, work that voodoo that you do so well. Or so we’ve heard.
BTW, even though his blog hasn’t been updated, he as written a few articles as well as tweeted article links of Pitt FB articles like he did yesterday.
But maybe Werner is actually reading this blog, and is becomiing the Twitter nerd to match Audrey.
The following are his tweets from the PG from THIS MORNIN ALONE .. are you guys happy now?
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
@BrinkPG Special assistant in charge of pitching change decisions.
2h
Peter Gammons ? @pgammo
Grady Little is a senior advisor with Neal Huntington and the Pirates. “I’m not sure what it means,” says Grady, “but we’ll figure it out.”
Retweeted by Bill Brink
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1h
Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
Man, it’s quiet on Twitter this early in the morning. Seems like everyone’s worn out from a long night of dress arguing.
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
That’s the end of our viewing window. We’ll talk to Narduzzi, S&C coach Dave Andrews and a few players after the workout is done.
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
Haha well played. RT @RomanPerdz: @SWernerPG idk Sam looks blue and black to me
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
RBs Chris James (white) and Qadree Ollison (gold)
Show Media
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
Chad Voytik, Rachid Ibrahim and James Conner #Pitt
Show Media
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
#Pitt WR Tyler Boyd going through some agility drills
Show Media
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
#Pitt players working in six different groups, sorted by position, rotating between stations.
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
#Pitt players Nicholas Grigsby, Matt Galambos and Chris Blewitt working the ropes. link to vine.co
Show Media
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
Offensive players running things in tug-of-war. Won three in a row. Latest was Bookser over Mosley-Smith.
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
Players doing tug-of-war battles now. Dontez Ford wins the first one over Lafayette Pitts. #Pitt
#Pitt S&C coach Dave Andrews praised previous staff for the job they did: “This is an add-on job.”
4m
Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
When asked about any position changes, Narduzzi said “none that we need to talk about now.” #Pitt
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Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
Some players at workout — looked like mostly starters — were in gold shirts. Narduzzi said there is a significance but didn’t say what.
Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
QB Chad Voytik said #Pitt’s offense will operate at faster pace this year with less huddling.
1m
Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
Voytik says gold jerseys are for players who do best in workouts each day. Motivation tactic for players to try and earn gold shirt
Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
#Pitt players are given a grade for each workout: losing, low-average, average, high-average, winning and ACC champ.
1m
Sam Werner ? @SWernerPG
#Pitt TE Scott Orndoff, on if new offense will throw to TE more: “Hopefully, I don’t want to be another tackle like last year.
QB Chad Voytik said #Pitt’s offense will operate at faster pace this year with less huddling.
Voytik said it won’t quite be “high-octane,” which drew a slight chuckle from Artie Rowell.
and here is a video of this morning’s workout
Narduzzi and Co. are already screwing around with the offense and I’m not sure I like that at all for two reasons; first is that I think Conner is going to need a rest in between snaps. You run this kid 5+ time in a a series with no huddle and a speeded up offense and his productivity will suffer. Second, I’m not sure Voytik will continue to grow in that type of offense. he really started producing later on in the season when he was comfortable getting the playcall and then dropping back and trusting his pocket.
If we go to a hurry up offense we’ll see much more shorter passes… which I can agree with because Voytik’s strength is not the deep ball at all. But his intermediate throws improved greatly as the season went on.
I wouldn’t touch that offense at all woth the exceptions of more TE actions and getting James and the others RBs more snaps per game. I’m wary of this and will pay close attention at the spring practices.
Here is what you are thinking about:
Reed even you wrote that we’re never going to recruit like Ohio Fake, FLA. St. or even middling Pedo State.
The spread is the great equalizer in college football.
Pitt lost the right side of their O line and have experienced guys in reserve. Pitt lost a starting wide receiver and need one of several inexperienced guys to step up.
Please note how I attempted to take the usual Emel tactic regarding quality of opponent away when spouting stats.
D is key for Pitt in 2015. Just renewed my season tickets and can’t wait!
Voytik mentioned that of what he’s seen of the offense so far, it’ll be faster paced, less huddling, a little bit more shotgun, but not terrible different scheme wise from the previous system. Artie Rowell made note that the blocking schemes and movements are similar, but also mentioned that the coaching staff emphasized that it would be better to try to clean the slate of the previous system, so there isn’t confusion or misinterpretations by equating things between the systems
I wasn’t really suggesting they go spread for 2015, since the team is geared toward pro-set for now.
Just sayin that you need less top recruits to win in a spread. And that is has equalized things for programs like TCU, Baylor, Boise, etc. Programs like Pitt that aren’t getting a roster full of 4 & 5 star players.
But thx for the dig. lol
Now I can’t get that Fleetwood Mac song out of my head!!! Great article none the less. Thanks!