Yes, Taylor’s the norm but Pitt is regressing precipitously. Gotta shake it up, try him at PF, no?

Here’s what I’d like to see:

PG: Dixon
SG: Gibbs
SF: Brown
PF: Sleepy
C: McGhee

C’mon Jamie, roll the dice. At this point what have you got to lose?

Great post, really puts the situation in perspective. I am on the don’t play him at the 4 side of the argument. His defense is pretty weak and it will be exposed more at the four. He has not really show the ability to put the ball on the floor either. On top of that, being away from the hoops means he’s going to have to shoot the ball more and that spin is u-g-l-y. I know nas isn’t a great shooter either, but his defense and toughness are something. I haven’t seen either of them from Taylor yet.

His defense is weak at the 5 because he gets backed down by bigger, more physical centers. At the 4 I’m not sure that anyone can really judge what it would be like because quite frankly we haven’t seen it against 4 type players.

Also, you can call his spin u-g-l-y if you want, but he’s not a bad shooter at all. He has a nice soft touch and isn’t a bad foul shooter for a freshman big man. Far better touch than Nas whose range extends 2 ft.

I am on the side that he can’t play the 5 because he is not nearly strong enough. The last play he was involved in vs WVU is the prime example, where he did have inside poition but was completely overpowered from behind by the foreigner for a putback.

He has athletic skills as evidenced that he won the skills competition at the all-star game last year. I realize that he may not be able to play defense at the 4 to the level that Dixon wants, but it has to be a better matchup for him than at the 5. On offense, just how many times has he had the opportunity to put the ball on the floor? Very few … and he has played face-up his entire basketball life.

wbb I don’t disagree with the fact that he isn’t strong enough for the 5, because I don’t think he is right now, but the example about Kalicli (sp?) is not a good one. He got overpowered because he sat on the block and didn’t get to Kalicli who was higher in the paint. Had Taylor moved out to Kalicli who was a good 4 ft behind him when the ball went up to box out, he wouldn’t have been pushed so far under. You can’t sit and wait for people and that is why Dixon pulled him IMO.

But yes I think he has athletic skills to play the 4 on D, he can run the floor maybe better than anyone on the team, and I’d love to see him get a chance at the 4.

Fantastic post, Chas. Thanks for the sorely needed context in the Taylor debate.

Also, for those who have made negative comments toward the kid he seems to be a great teammate as evidenced by the post on his twitter:

“we got our asses kicked 2night fellas we gotta get back to what had us successful early in the conference..i apologize 4 my play 2night”

The kid is apologizing for a loss in which he played maybe 4 min? Takes a big man.

Taylor’s game needs work and his body needs to fill out, but he can still be a good player.

I am old enough to remember when Pitt signed Curtis Aiken, who was really their first blue chip recruit. Everyone was excited about the kid but then he struggled big-time his freshman year. A lot of people jumped off his bandwagon, but Aiken went on to become an excellent player as an upperclassman. It’s not time to worry about Taylor yet.

Taylor will be fine, but sticking him in at the 4 will break an already bruised ego. JD knows what he is doing. He is giving a kid a taste of the big time in a position that minimizes risk to the overall team–the 5. I can’t wait to see Dante in 2012 after a couple years of strength conditioning and coaching—he will be a much better player. He will be fine. Playing the four, however, will hurt us bigtime. An already anemic offense will go MIA.

To those who think that spin doesn’t need work, I say…it does and it will hinder him for the future. Someone has got to correct that over the summer…

Taylor will be a GREAT player in time. Remember, he won the skills competition against the very list of kids Chas posted. Many of us agree that he’s playing out of position and not able to display those skills. Only Jamie knows why, but a hint it is in the December post Chas referenced. ‘The 4 is the most difficult position to learn in Pitt’s offense and Jamie doesn’t want to burden him with that on top of his transition to college ball.’ Right or wrong in his reasoning, I’d forgotten about that. That doesn’t mean I’ve changed my mind on moving him, but I would lower my expectation of how Taylor would perform and the minutes he’d get at the 4.

That same post also talks about Taylor’s attitude about doing what Jamie wants to help the team. I suggest all the people disappointed or disgusted with Taylor go back and read it.

Thanks for the reminder, Chas.

Although we are all a bit disappointed with Taylor’s play, we should recognize that one of our other freshman bigs is playing well and could possibly be the answer to our inside game… If JJ can continue contributing, I think we will be fine. Next 4 out of 5 are a home fellows. Let’s flex our muscle and get some wins.

It’s nice to see someone else finally realizes Richardson is on this team. This kid looks more athletic and competitive than any of the freshmen, but for whatever reason he’s the forgotten man. Fans get enamored with the stars in front of incoming players names and forget players like Dion Lewis show up unexpectedly. I’m certainly not comparing Richardson to Lewis, but at this point, I’m not afraid to compare him with Taylor. That’s not to say I’m down on Taylor, but to this point he certainly has room for improvement. Lastly, I am for giving Taylor a shot at the four. What would it hurt to give him minutes at the four instead of the five? It was evident against WVU that Richardson will give you as much at the five as Taylor, so what’s the risk? You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

MoE and ltl49: Recognition of Richardson’s play against WVU is sort of what fueled the “Inferno” in the first place. Several of us suggested that Richardson showing up the way he did might allow Jamie to move Taylor. That ignited the folks that thought Taylor didn’t deserve that move based on his recent play/attitude.

A caution on jumping on the Richardson bandwagon: It was just ONE game. He too is a freshman and right now he has fresh legs. He could just as easily look worse than Taylor at center over the course of several games. So, like Taylor, let’s give the kid a break and accept the bad with the good knowing they’ll both grow into dependable – maybe great – players over time.

Oh, and Taylor and Richardson are a small part of the big picture. Chas summed it up well in his “Aftermath of a Collapse” post. It’s worth a re-read. Our “experienced” players are the ones who need to show up tonight and our ire should be directed at them if they don’t, rather than at the young guys.

Anyone hear anything about the status of tonight’s game? For those that are not local, we’ve been blanketed in snow overnight. I’m out in the North Hills/Franklin Park area, and we got between 20-23 inches. We can’t even get off of our street!

I’m assuming Seton Hall came into town yesterday afternoon before the storm started, so they are probably in town…

TampaT, good point …. Wannamaker and Brown go scoreless and the focus for us has been on Taylor. We could only wish the big issue right now was the failed expectations of our prize recruit.

I believe the tweet mentioned above was actually a retweet of a post originated by Wanamaker.

Mctsk – I think you are correct. That was actually a tweet from Wanamaker.

below is a post borrowed from the pantherlair board. it scientifically proves what we have all seen the past several weeks from mr. taylor.

Statistical Look at our Losing Streak Reply

——————————————————————————–
In Big East play, we’ve scored 1.05 points/possession and allowed 1.03 points/possession. In the last 5 games (4 losses), those numbers are 0.99-1.09. In the last 3 losses (Seton Hall, USF, WVU), those numbers are 0.96-1.16. Clearly, our recent performance has been very disappointing (not that you needed those numbers to figure that out).

I think the poor play can primarily be traced back to two players – Dante Taylor and Chase Adams.

In the last 5 games, we’ve been outscored 302-331 (-29) in 200 minutes. In 142.9 minutes without Dante or Chase on the floor, we’re only -3 (222-225). In that time, we’re scoring 1.05 points/possession (same as our season average) and allowing 1.07 points/possession (pretty poor). In the other 57.1 minutes, either Dante or Chase was on the court. In that time, we’ve been outscored by 26 (80-106), while scoring 0.86 points/possession (horrible) and allowing 1.15 points/possesssion (equally horrible).

In the last 3 losses (Seton Hall, USF, WVU), we’ve been outscored 173-204 (-31) in 120 minutes. In 91.3 minutes without Dante or Chase on the floor, we’re actually +3 (139-136). In that time, we’re scoring 1.03 points/possession (slightly worse than our season average) and allowing 1.02 points/possession (slightly better than our season average). In the other 28.7 minutes, either Dante or Chase was on the court. In that time, we’ve been outscored by 34 and by a factor of 2 (34-68), while scoring 0.96 points/possession (pretty bad) and allowing 1.51 points/possesssion (unimaginably horrific).

I’ve gone through this before so I won’t rehash it again here, but Chase Adams shouldn’t play at all anymore. Dante Taylor, on the other hand, baffles me. I see a lot of talk about moving him to his “natural position” or that he needs to get stronger to compete in the Big East. I feel that the 5 is his natural position at the college level and I believe that he is capable of being at least an average Big East center this year.

Dante was very comparable to Gary in the OOC schedule (Gary was better on defense, Dante on offense) and was one of the stars of the Syracuse upset. There was no reason not to believe that he would continue to be Gary’s equal or pass him as Big East play continued. Instead, he’s totally forgotten how to play basketball. We can’t afford to play him at all and Gary has forced to play way too many minutes as a result.

If Dante had continued his OOC performance, we would have certainly beat Seton Hall (he was -10, we lost by 3) and probably USF too (he was -12, we lost by 9). If that had happened, we would be 8-2 in the Big East and ranked in the top 10. Instead, we are 6-4 and people are complaining about our lack of talent and that a high school coach is smarter than Jamie.

I’m excited to see if JJ can build off of his stellar performance at WVU. Perhaps, he can replace Dante’s minutes and help stop this losing streak. However, Dante must return to his OOC (and Syracuse) form for this team to reach its full potential.

Who got Omar a calculator for Chrismass?

I don’t know who is correct on the 4 vs 5 argument. I know I trust coach Dixon. He took what was truly a project in Aaron Gray and turned him into an NBA center. I’m guessing that the coaches expect Taylor to grow an inch or so and put on 20 to 30 pounds over his four years…6’10”, 260 to 270lbs, makes for a nice center or a giant PF.

The plain simple fact of the matter is that Taylor’s ass simply isn’t big enough. We could grow him a bigger ass, butt I’m afraid that would ruin him for life. Taylor is tall and lanky and at 240 he is fat. And for those who are projecting that he grow taller and heavier go back and finish you dream and grow him to 7′, then you would have something at center.

The real focus should be how do we stop Hazell and Pope and not the aftermath of the WVU game. Last game we were effective at stopping Hazell but not Pope. It still appears that we have no way of stopping him other that hoping that he stops himself.

But of course Omar doesn’t have a vendetta against Taylor. I guess on this snowy day, we all have the time to go thru the timeline of all Pitt games to calculate his +-. If he is smart enough to make these caluclations, you would think he would know that our OOC opponents (save Texas) do not match the bulk strength of what he is seeing every game in the BE. BTW, vs Texas, Taylor scored 4 pts in 6 minutes and FWIW, Richardson had more minutes (8) in that game also.

As I recall Hazell was slowed by fouls, not Pitt in SH’S upset victory. Pope carried the load admirably. Ti win tonite the Panthers have to play BOTH offense and defense really well. The entire team seems to have “gone south” for the season. Perhaps that’s because the early season victories boosted expectations unrealistically. Pitt is what it is –a mediocre team. No shame in that. Was it not to be a rebuilding year? George

The OOC schedule means nothing. “This is the Big East, baby,” says Dick Vitale. Wouldn’t it be great if all the players returned to their OOC form (and Syracuse)? Who’s got the magic OCC dust.

I assumed that we had something to do with Hazell’s foul trouble. But if we couldn’t defend him either and he stopped himself, we’ve bigger problems tonight than I thought.

Pitt is a mediocre team on a downhill slide at the bifurcation point of determining whether the slide continues or team takes an upturn.

Lets accept mediocrity? That’s what got me thru school, oh no, it wasn’t.

Telling someone to accept mediocrity is like telling your kid a C is acceptable since he isn’t very bright.

Per the University website, tonight’s game is still on in spite of the weather. Those who can walk to the game are encouraged to attend. The official recommendation is that others should stay home and watch on TV. Still have at least 18 inches of snow on the street. If the road crew makes it thru this afternoon we’ll probably hitch up the dog sled and give it a try. Hate to miss the start of our next winning streak.

D.C. got 2.5 ft over the past 2 days and they are playing right now.

BTW, right now SJU is beating WVU by 14 (so anyone chalking up a win when we play them at NYC should ‘forget about it’)

Pitt game is on….we have 30″ in B’more with 7 more inches to come. Have Pens/Caps ticks tomorrow…appreciate if someone could let me know back in the Burgh if the game is on.

Go Pitt!!….Next winning streak starts at 6PM today. Set Backscreens please and someone make a damn shot!!

OOC form?

Didn’t we get spanked by Indiana in OOC? Didn’t we score like 9 points against New Hampshire or someone and need 30 overtimes to beat Duquesne?

I’ll settle for returning to Louisville “win the game by the skin of your teeth” form.

Dan – according to local news, the Pens game tomorrow is still on, at least for now, but is dependent on the Pens figuring out how to get into DC.

It’s not looking good for my trip to the Pete tonight – I finally finished clearing the driveway (it was about 2 feet where I live), but I’m hearing many of the roads between here and there are not yet passable. My guess is they will let more students than usual in to try to make up for the lack of attendance by the “general public”. At least it is on local TV.

I just heard the announcers on the Marquette game say the Pitt game is on but won’t be televised. Bummer.

Confirmed here:

link to post-gazette.com

i didn’t calculate the +/- data. a poster named pitt08 did and he usually posts the information periodically. i don’t have a vendetta against mr. taylor, nor do i plagiarize. i also am not responsible for the content in the post. pitt08 wrote it as well.

I just re-read Lamar Patterson’s “resume”. He was highly recruited and played high school ball for a premier “nationally-renown” team in Jersey. What are his weaknesses that have kept him off the court? He is listed as a G/F, positions where help is needed.

he is a good shooter and a very smart basketball player. however, he needs to work on his body as well. he is carrying around extra weight, not muscle, and it hurts his athleticism. he will be a good player for pitt in a year or two. just isn’t ready to make a big contribution this year.

apparently he is “injured” and heading for a red-shirt.

Well, it is good to see that Omar does have a vendetta against Patterson also.

“Well, it is good to see that Omar does have a vendetta against Patterson also.”

shadyforpresident, my read is that you have a vedetta against Omar (unless you are trying to be facetious). I thought that Omar’s comments were objective, neutral and made sense. (Perhaps I am out of the loop and am missing something.)

BigGuy,

Yes, I was being facetious. You’re out of the loop. Read Blather – Aftermath of a Collapse. Omar has a running attack going on Taylor for 2 days now that I tried to misdirect several times to no avail. Someone jumps in and fans the flames.

shadyforpresident, it’s not the first time (nor will it be the last) that I’ve come up a dollar short and a day late. (Sorry, I’m tired. I can’t come up with a better cliché.)

[…] I indicated last week that he is more in line with most other freshmen big men. I never got around to commenting on potentially provocative/threatening column on Taylor that had his high school coach talking. Questioning why Taylor was playing Center, and making an implied threat. This isn’t to place the blame squarely on Dixon, as Taylor deserves his share for failing to take advantage of his opportunity. Overwhelmed or not, there’s no excuse for lacking intensity or playing soft. But Taylor is Pitt’s first McDonald’s All-American in 22 years and, after watching his struggles, it might be some time before the Panthers land another. […]

[…] he is still a freshman big man. It’s astounding how few have the immediate impact expected. I covered this a couple weeks ago, and if you take a look at the top freshman big men, most are in the same […]