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December 1, 2011

It was a sloppy affair, as has become typical, and some absurd differentials. Turnovers and rebounds were absurd. Pitt outrebounded Duquesne 39-15. Pitt outrebounded the Dukes just on offensive boards with 16 of those. The flipside, Pitt turned the ball over 23 times while Duquesne kept theirs to only 12. So depending on how you look at it, the Panthers could have destroyed the Stage Magi if Pitt was better with their passing — because that was the bigger issue than ball handling with regards to the turnovers — or Duquesne might have pulled off the upset if they just could have grabbed some rebounds.

Since this is a Pitt blog, and we’d rather be much more concerned with Pitt’s flaws, let’s take a look at the turnover issue.

Get this out of the way, now. Pitt turning the ball over a lot against Duquesne should not have been a surprise. To anyone. This was the City Game with Duquesne operating under Ron Everhart. Only twice has Pitt kept the turnovers to something that would not create the, “this team can’t play this sloppy against better teams” style angst.

2006 — 11 turnovers, Pitt W 73-56

2007 — 18 turnovers, Pitt W 73-68

2008 — 18 turnovers, Pitt W 78-51

2009 — 12 turnovers, Pitt W 67-58 (2OT)

2010 — 19 turnovers, Pitt W 80-66

2011 — 23 turnovers, Pitt W 80-69

Honestly, the 2009 game seems like the biggest aberration. Not last night.

23 is not good. It’s downright ugly, and it is a concern since it is Pitt’s second game this season where Pitt turned the ball over in such high volume (21 vs. LaSalle). So I’m not minimizing the issue. I just want to put it in some context. Duquesne’s gameplan, and only opportunity to get the win was going to be by getting Pitt to turnover the ball, panic and cede control of the tempo.

They got the turnovers, but no panic. That’s a big positive out of that. There was a brief wobble, but Pitt didn’t freak out and try to do too much. Nor did they break apart to see indvidual players try to do too much. Pitt stayed in control.

In fact, they made the Dukes panic during the game. Pitt kept dominating on the boards. They put more pressure on Duquesne to be perfect every possession. If they missed a shot, they knew they weren’t getting the rebound.

Duquesne shot well when they penetrated. When they got to the hoop. The problem was, they had to work for most of those shots. Pitt’s defense is still a struggle about letting teams finish, but unless Duquesne was out in transition or fast break they could not score at the pace they wanted or needed.  They were only able to take 48 shots. The other problem was that they couldn’t do was hit free throws or threes.

Pitt on the other hand was much more efficient in their shooting. They shot 18-33 on 2-p0int shots (54.5%) and 11-21 on 3s (52.4%).

The size of Pitt inside was a problem Duquesne couldn’t overcome.

Apparently Pitt’s dominance of the City Game has Gene Collier bored by the whole thing.

As has been learned from the folklore of the earliest Native American naturalists, autumn does not fully end until Pitt beats Duquesne by double figures.

So welcome then to winter, the frosty season that perpetually follows events such as Wednesday night’s metronomic Pitt victory, this one typically desultory, the Panthers’ 11th in a row against their Uptown “rival” and a further solidification that if they play this thing annually for another 20 years, Jamie Dixon still might never lose to Duquesne.

A nice crowd of 15,880 showed up at the Consol Energy Center (yes, they were very nice), not so much to see if Duquesne could beat a ranked team on a neutral court for the first time since that Ruby Don’t Take Your Love To Town spring of 1969, but because fans of The City Game are more of a co-mingled congregation than a convergence of hostile factions.

“It’s good to see all my friends and family come,” said Duquesne guard T.J. McConnell, “but I don’t look at it as a bigger game than the others. I play every game the same.

The fact is there’s no enduring reason for this affair other than it seems like a nice thing for Pittsburgh’s basketball community. Pitt certainly isn’t buttressing its non-conference schedule by including Duquesne, and Duquesne, even though it has everything to gain and nothing to lose (other than another game) by playing a Big East powerhouse, doesn’t lose a minute of sleep over whether it will ever beat Pitt again.

That’s not entirely true. Duquesne would really like to get a win. In fact, this piece suggests that both Duquesne and Robert Morris get too amped to try and beat Pitt that it costs them in the form of a bit of a malaise in subsequent games.

Since Ron Everhart took over the Duquense program in 2006-07, the Dukes are 15-19 in games (of varying sample sizes) following the City Game. The Colonials are 10-10 in games after Pitt, 2-6 in the eight following last year’s game. This coming from teams with a collective .623 winning percentage since 2007-08.

Certainly, Toole and Everhart realize beating Pitt isn’t the major milestone of a season. Getting to the NCAA Tournament — which usually means winning their respective conferences — is for what these teams should strive.

But because the players are so close — recruiting showcases, summer leagues and social media make the dynamic different between these rivals than in the Steel Bowl days — they put pride on the line. RMU has never beaten Pitt. Duquesne hasn’t beaten Pitt in this millennium (the Dukes have lost 10 straight). The bitterness derives from the lack of bragging rights.

I will say, that if there is one player on Duquesne’s team that I wish was on Pitt’s. It would be T.J. McConnell. The kid is really good. He was always a lock to go to Duquesne with the family ties, but he would be a great defender to have in Pitt’s backcourt.

Dante Taylor returned to action in this game. He didn’t start, but when Khem Birch picked up an early foul, he got in the game and really came to play. It was his turn for a double-double. He had 15 points on a perfect shooting night (6-6 and 3-3 on FTs) along with 11 rebounds. Not only that, but he didn’t have a turnover and was credited with 3 assists. He earned the playing time last night. He even admitted that watching Birch and Zanna play so well was an extra motivation.

“It definitely was motivating, because everyday we battle in practice just to get each other better,” Taylor said. “But, yeah, it was definitely tough to sit there and watch.”

To be fair, Taylor was playing a good game against LaSalle before taking the elbow to the face. His energy level in the game, though, was much higher than seen.

And it isn’t like Birch was playing bad in the game. He just had a little more trouble getting in a good defensive position against speed from Duquesne — hence 3 fouls in 13 minutes. Right now, there is not going to be any set consistency to the minutes in the frontcourt — other than Nas. Birch and Taylor are pushing each other for the playing time. Something that should continue for most of the season. Both players know it, and it should just push each of them to play harder.





On Birch, generally I’ve noticed that he is a very good, restrained one-on-one defender. He seems to have a good sense of when to hold back and not foul and to keep his arms up, but at the same time being pesky. However, he will be challenged to play clean and restrained and to perhaps tamper some of his athetic ability and aggresiveness when it comes to help defense. No foul gets called more in college basketball than the second guy coming over trying to whack the ball away.

Comment by SilverPanther in NYC 12.01.11 @ 11:44 am

On JJ Moore, he pretty much demonstrated why he is playing behind Patterson. He stands around waiting to chuck up three pointers (he does indeed have a nice shot though), flips the ball chicken winged on the passes, rarely tries to move to the basket, drive or atract attention, rarely makes a pass to anyone other than swinging to the guard at the top of the key. On defense he plays over aggressive and tries to go for steals, loses his way, but at least crashes the boards well. Seriously though, he’s the coolest looking player since Julius Page. Headband, full beard, #44 tucked in. Lamar Patterson in his body would be all conference. Come on JJ, put it together kid.

Comment by SilverPanther in NYC 12.01.11 @ 11:55 am

on the plus side, 15,880 is a pretty good turnuot

Comment by wbb 12.01.11 @ 12:02 pm

John Johnson making back to back 3’s to put it away at the end of the game…? Any props for him?

We may have another true shooter on our hands…

Lots of talent, Dixon just needs to sort through the heap.

Comment by Yup 12.01.11 @ 12:11 pm

I was really impressed with the athleticism of our front court. If Zanna continues to mature he could be great, and Taylor’s energy level was noticably higher than last years. I was impressed with Woodall too, he just seems much more confident.

Comment by dan strohl 12.01.11 @ 12:19 pm

Sweet City Game write-up Chas. Screw Collier…he needs a change of scenery. I’m really tired of him.

Playing smart, limiting mistakes, rebounding and solid D…the Dixon formula will take hold with this crew. It will come together soon enough. I’m really excited about things and know the future is bright this season and beyond. HTP

Comment by FG 12.01.11 @ 12:33 pm

– JJ Moore is a poor mans Gilbert Brown, and that is obviously not a compliment (nor a knock on Gil).
– Gibbs finally played somewhat efficient, though still not quite as good as he can. He deserves the benefit of the doubt, but let’s face it, he’s having a bad season so far, despite his high point total. He’s been very inefficient and its hurt the team. Good to see improvement on that last night, but he’s got aways to go to be the player he was last year, let alone the BE player of the year candidate he can be.
– Taylor was maybe our most productive (or at least efficient) offensive player, though is weak on D. I really want ot see him and Birch together, as they would compliment each other so well. I really like Nas, but he’s gotta come off the bench. Its for the best in the long run i think.

Comment by PantherP 12.01.11 @ 12:41 pm

He got suspended, was starting prior to his suspension, came back and Patterson had taken his spot. Patterson gets suspended, Moore plays his best two games of the year, Patterson comes back and Moore sits. I don’t get that necessarily. I almost don’t blame him for having a bad attitude after something like that. We don’t know what goes on in practice though.

I thought Dixon broke through with giving him and Khem more minutes, but it was just an aberration due to injuries/suspensions. Two of our better performances this year were with Lamar and Dante out. Khem and JJ need to play more its a waste, not having them develop and only playing 13-15 minutes a game, too much talent. Production may be down initially but it will rise if they play.

Pitt will have a good year if Dixon realizes that, if not, they will have an average year.

Comment by OntarioLett'sGoPitt 12.01.11 @ 12:42 pm

I can’t stress this enough, but Pitt is a better defensive team with Birch and Moore. JJ Moore hustles more than Dante Taylor and he doesn’t have a quick hook. In fact it was Moore’s hustle on a Duquesne fast break that led to a turnover. Dante Taylor finally dunks the ball and acts like he won something, doesn’t hustle back, and Pitt gives up a layup. No quick hook.

Jamie Dixon definitely plays favorites and I don’t know why. No chance Pitt gets past the second round without massive improvement defensively from the core group of Gibbs, Woodall, Patterson, Robinson, and Taylor. Or a different line-up. I would not hold my breath for improvement from the core group. Therefore a change in the line-up is the only option. Who knows if we will see it.

Comment by omar 12.01.11 @ 1:37 pm

Omar I agree, he needs to cut the short leash he has on Moore and the other young guys. They are this teams chance to be special. Yes they can be good by playing Patterson, Robinson, and Taylor lots of minutes, but there is a chance to be great with some of the young talent. Every other team in the country plays their young guys and it serves them well in March.

Comment by OntarioLett'sGoPitt 12.01.11 @ 2:10 pm

How many passes actually went from the top to the post? I can’t recall one pass down low all night. You can’t win that way

We still don’t have a player who can create his own shot or take someone off the dribble.

I know this team has to work some things out by being relatively young, but I see the same problems on this team that have stopped Pitt from making a deep run in the tourney.

Comment by bdubb 12.01.11 @ 2:18 pm

bdubb, I’ve been saying that for about a week now. Taylor provides the best low post presence we had (offensively) since Aaron Gray. I think if he is fed the ball, he can either go one-on-one or pass it back outside to the open man if a defender doubles down on him. Gibbs, Pattterson, Moore, Woodall and J Johnson have all shown that they can hit the open outside shot.

Comment by wbb 12.01.11 @ 2:26 pm

The Dukes play with 5 guards most of the time. No surprise the turnovers-rebounds are so lopsided.

Comment by alcofan 12.01.11 @ 2:38 pm

Who is Collier?

Onto someone that matters, it was nice to see Taylor respond with production.

Team is a work in progress. This weekend will tell us much.

Comment by SFPitt 12.01.11 @ 2:59 pm

I don’t see any pet treatment by Dixon. He’s giving guys who play well minutes and coaching to win that night. There’s plenty of rotation through the lineup and I like the way Dixon is starting to find some interesting combos. Late in the game, he had Woodall, Gibbs, and Johnson in for foul shooting and ball handling.

On Nasir Robinson, I’m wondering if he’ll do better against bigger competition where he can exploit a speed and agility advantage. He’s struggling a bit, but I’m not worried about him.

Comment by SilverPanther in NYC 12.01.11 @ 3:08 pm

Screw the Post Gazette. However, Cook is the worst followed closely by Smudzik. Their love for JoePa and State Penn to this day is very disturbing and rarely do they ever compliment Pitt. If Pitt covered up repeated child rapes, I’d be the first to say eat sh!t Pitt.

As evidenced by over 15k at the game, this rivalry still means something and is a good thing for the city.

Comment by TX Panther 12.01.11 @ 3:20 pm

The failure to get the ball into the post continues to be a huge point of frustration. Taylor, Birch, Zanna convert just a few of those into hoops or fouls on their men and it instantly opens up the perimeter. I know it’s a skill to make good entry passes, but for Christ’s sake, it’s not like it’s that hard.

Comment by Carmen 12.01.11 @ 4:15 pm

I was at the game, and I must admit it was a weird atmosphere. Other than the two student sections (both were only half full) there wasn’t much cheering. Possibly because the game was something of a snoozefest. Guys behind me talking about how many of their compadres are doing time in the county jail made it a bit more interesting. The excessive turnovers were very frustrating and needs to get fixed. Hail to Pitt!

Comment by longsufferingpittfan 12.01.11 @ 4:36 pm

longsuffering, wonderful summary.

Were you sitting in a luxury box?

Comment by steve 12.01.11 @ 4:53 pm

Carmen, feeding ex-players like Troutman and Blair seemed so effortless. And now our perimeter guys see our bigs open yet refuse the entry pass.

I don’t get it.

Comment by steve 12.01.11 @ 5:27 pm

Moore made a bunch of stupid mistakes. He makes them frequently (on offense and defense). He takes stupid shots frequently. He doesn’t play within the system often. That’s why he sits. His good game this year resulted from him playing within the system.

Dixon can only give one guy major minutes at Center. If Dante’s on, like he was last night, he gets them because Dixon rewards seniority.

Comment by The Truth 12.01.11 @ 5:36 pm

I don’t think our fanbase is clear on where this team is having issues. WE HAVE THE BEST OFFENSE IN THE COUNTRY! OFFENSE IS NOT AN ISSUE.

Pitt is atrocious on defense. Just despicable. Dante’s “on game” was on offense. Not on defense, which is a huge problem right now. Pitt was much better on defense without Taylor and Patterson. Pitt did not miss a beat on offense. What does this mean?

Comment by omar 12.01.11 @ 5:49 pm

Agree that defense is the problem- along with turnovers. But I don’t think you have made a case- or rather the players themselves haven’t- for the personnel changes you are suggesting. Moore doesn’t look particularly good on either end. And it was Duquesne’s guards that scored most of their points. LBS as well. Seems more that our backcourt is weak defensively, which we identified pre-season. And I think some kind of balance of Birch and Taylor is not a bad thing.

Clearly Birch, Moore, and Zanna are better athletes than the others. Just not seeing that translate into the defensive force you are talking up. I’m usually in lockstep with your opinions Omar. But you got me on this one…so far. Happy to eat crow if we go back to our 2004 ways if they switch up the lineup, which I think Dixon would be amenable to if he felt things were really bad to the point of losing.

Comment by SilverPanther in NYC 12.01.11 @ 6:56 pm

Omar, “atrocious, despicable?” And do you factor in defensive rebounds?

Come on, those labels are earned by a team at 1-6, not 6-1.

Comment by steve 12.01.11 @ 7:02 pm

so who plays pg in next game Johnson?

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.01.11 @ 8:40 pm

It’s not about losing now, its about losing in March. Pitt will continue to lose every March if Dixon continues to refuse to play his most talented players and let them develop. I’d rather be a 5-8 seed with our most talented players developed and ready to step up, then a 2-3 seed with our best athletes, most naturally gifted scorers/defenders not ready and only stepping on the floor for 15 minutes come March.

Comment by OntarioLett'sGoPitt 12.01.11 @ 8:53 pm

Silver:

I agree that the backcourt is bad. Problem is that with our current crunch time line-up, every position is bad. I’m not going to say this again, Taylor is much worse defensively than birch. Khem actually prefers to play defense and rebound. Dante not so much. I like Taylor, but his skill set is not what the team is lacking. We need defense. Birch brings it.

Comment by Omar 12.01.11 @ 9:22 pm

Steve,

Not in a box. Section 234. Great seats for the game though.

Comment by longsufferingpittfan 12.02.11 @ 9:53 am

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