In the past week, as Pitt fans have continued to angst over not being in the NCAA Tournament after the first weekend. As Khem Birch shined in the McDonald’s All-American Game. There’s been a lot of questioning regarding Coach Jamie Dixon.
Some of it, is understandable. One area I don’t quite get has been conflating Coach Dixon with former football coach Dave Wannstedt when it comes to starting experience over talent. So before Birch even gets to campus. Before summer league even starts. People are making complete declarations and speaking in absolutes about Pitt’s future and whether guys like Khem Birch and J.J. Moore will and/or should be installed as starters. Making it practically a referendum on Dixon as Pitt’s coach and what to expect.
The case seems to boil down to Chris Taft not starting immediately as a freshman. John DeGroat getting token minutes to start every game as a senior. Sam Young not starting over Levon Kendall. And the playing time for J.J. Moore and Talib Zanna this past season.
This seems to be a case where perception exceeds reality.
In Coach Dixon’s very first year as a head coach, he was confronted with a very talented freshman in Chris Taft. Torree Morris, a senior got the start for the first 11 games of the season. Taft made an immediate impact, and even before he got to start games was quickly playing starter minutes. By the end of the season, Morris averaged only 8 minutes a game. Considering the way Taft had issues with entitlement over his brief career at Pitt, I’d be hard pressed to say that Dixon didn’t handle it right by making him earn the privilege of being named a starter over the course of the non-con.
In the 2004-05 season the only spot of dispute would be starting sophomore Antonio Graves over freshman Ronald Ramon. The fact is, both averaged about the same number of minutes. 26.9 mpg for Graves or 26.1 mpg for Ramon. Rather similar numbers across the board, except that Graves (yes, Graves) shot better from beyond the arc (.462 vs. .336). By next season, though Ramon became the starter and Graves minutes went down despite being a junior.
The 2005-06 season had the unexplained oddity of Dixon starting John DeGroat almost every game. Even as DeGroat produced less and less — and got fewer minutes as the season deepened. I won’t even try to explain or justify that. That was also the freshman year of Sam Young — who averaged just over 20 minutes a game. Providing glimpses of what he could be with his athleticism.
The 2006-07 season had a transfer come in and start in his first year of eligibility. Mike Cook started every game. The debate that season, though, was whether Sam Young should be the starting PF over Levon Kendall. Young struggled playing inside, and was hindered by tendinitis in his knees, but still had better offense than Kendall — who played better defense and rebounded. Junior Ronald Ramon was moved to coming off the bench in favor of Antonio Graves — their numbers were not too different. Sophomore Levance Fields took over as starting point guard.
The 2007-08 season had freshman DeJuan Blair start right away over junior Tyrell Biggs. Gil Brown started games for just under half the season following injuries to both Mike Cook and Levance Fields.
2008-09. Jermaine Dixon, a JUCO transfer became a starter right away over redshirt junior Gilbert Brown. Not much to argue here unless you think Tyrell Biggs shouldn’t have played as much and Pitt should have gone smaller.
Last year, 2009-10. I don’t see any case to be made unless you still remain convinced that Dante Taylor should have been made the power forward and the starter over Nasir Robinson. Gil Brown never got to start last year after coming back from his suspension. That seemed to be as much about the continued consequence of his academic suspension for the first part of the season.
As for this past season, there were expectations to win this year. Not transition for next year. So, you can’t legitimately argue that Talib Zanna should have stayed the starter over and split the minutes with Nasir Robinson. Zanna may have more upside in the future, but Robinson was more productive and better defensively.
J.J. Moore simply needed to play defense better, share the ball and hold on to the ball to see more court time. He struggled with all three. He has quick hands and can poke the ball away on defense, but he didn’t have good footwork and was often out of position. On offense, he shot the ball 70 times in 183 minutes (hitting 31). A shot every 2.6 minutes on the court. That led the team. Ashton Gibbs was closest to that by averaging a shot every 2.8 minutes. Everyone else was better than 3 minutes/shot. He was also the only guard or wing player to have more turnovers than assists (10 assists, 12 turnovers). I’m not at all down on Moore for the future, but he didn’t exactly show he should have gotten more minutes this past season.
Yes, Lamar Patterson was and is not the scorer Moore is, but he played better within Pitt’s system.
|---TOTAL| |---3-PTS-| |---REBOUNDS-|
Player GP-GSMin--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA % Off Def Tot Avg A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg
Moore.... 23-0 183 8.0 31-70 .443 8-26 .308 16-23.696 14 15 29 1.3 10 12 0 7 86 3.7
Patterson 32-0 401 12.5 28-82 .341 8-36 .222 20-29.690 35 29 64 2.0 42 24 5 14 84 2.6
Again, the discussion isn’t about what Moore will do in the future versus what Patterson will. Or the ceiling of one or the other.
It’s a question of what a team that was projected to win the Big East, was in the top-5 all season, and had very high expectations should be trying to do that season. You know why Shabazz Napier and Jeremy Lamb got to get experience and play through all their mistakes this season at UConn? It’s because the only guys behind them were Donnell Beverly and Niels Giffey. If you saw either of the latter in games for UConn, you know exactly why they didn’t get in ahead of the former.
The rule that has always held true under Dixon, is that if you perform well in practice you will get into the games. Yes, you have to know how to play within the framework of Pitt’s system, but that holds true for any team.
For a little perspective, look at how long it took some of the most elite coaches to win national titles:
Krzyzewski – 11th season at Duke
Calhoun – 13th season at UConn
Boeheim – 27th season at Syracuse
Roy Williams – 17th season (Kansas and UNC combined)
Calipari and Howland – still waiting
Anyway, it sometimes takes a while even for the most elite coaches at the top programs.
Furthermore, let’s look at what we have to work with objectively. Pittsburgh is not a good city for basketball talent. We have to go out of the area for nearly all our players. And we have legit rivals for talent in all geographic directions: Ohio State, Michigan State, Indiana, and ND to the west; Syracuse to the north; West Virginia and Kentucky to the south; Duke, UNC, Maryland, and Georgetown to the east; Nova and UConn to the east/north.
So we basically have to go into the back yards of other top schools and attempt to get the best players. And we have to do it without a top notch history, the way that Kansas or UNC can do. And we’re also not a massive school with gobs of money and fans and facilities. Objectively, should we expect greater results than large state schools like the Universities of Texas, Georgia, Michigan, Florida, etc? Or even penn state?
Anyway, to be where we’ve been for the last 10 years is a miracle. I hope Dixon stays until they carry him out in a wood box. By that point, I’m sure we’ll have at least one title banner hanging at the Pete.
At that point we can focus on the “Johns Plumbing Supply Bowl Game” and prepare for our annual March basketball collapse…and continue to repeat this cycle for all eternity as we stumble around drunk muttering “next year is our year!”
The curse of pitt sports continues…
With Butler reaching the final game< ibelieve we are much more appreciative but still frustrated.
But the thing I like the best about current Pitt
BB, I think we can not only vie for the BE title again next year but hope for reaching greater heights.
If Pitt had these future NBA high draft picks Dixon would indeed be giving them early PT–Pitt just hasn’t had any of these guys–although Blair and, maybe, Young should have been 1st rounders–and Blair started as a frosh. Young was an undersized Center in H.S. for whom it took several years of hard work in the gym to develop small forward skills and shooting ability. As pointed out, Young also had tendonitis issues with his knees early on.
FWIW–Dante Taylor has had similar knee issues. Unfortunately, are less than fully knowledgeable fandom, has morphed the results of that problem into a conclusion that either Dante is being played out of position or that he is a lazy player.
Also will the new asst. coach be just another ‘yes man’ or will he hire someone who actually won’t be afraid to nudge him with an elbow on the bench and make suggestions, like: “Jaime we might want to call a timeout here”, Jamie, let’s make sure our players are aware not to foul on a missed Free Throw” or “Jamie, we might want to pull our guys off the line on the 2nd Free Throw”.
This next hire of who is going to replace Pat Skerry is going to tell a lot.
Pitt has had an elite program for the last 10 years, meaning for the basketball playing lives of anyone we’re recruiting now, Pitt has ALWAYS had good to very good teams and plays in the Big Dance every year. And in fact for the last 10 years we’re in the Top 5 of all NCAA teams in wins and we have the best record in the BigEast in the last 10 years. And that is all that counts with the kids we’re recruiting now and in the future. We need to start using all this national TV exposure we’ve got the last several years and start recruiting nationally. We have gotten players from LA & Chicago before,we can get them again.
If that ref does not make an utterly ridiculous call on Nas, Pitt may still be playing and would be about a 3 pt underdog to UConn or Butler.
Love Dixon. Trust me, no one took that loss harder than Dixon. He will never make the same mistake again. Sometimes the only way to learn is to have a calamity….and we sure had one.
My vote is for Tim Grgurich
I stopped worrying about AC openings when the sky didn’t fall after Roehrenson left.
Parade AAs came out Sunday and evan Buffalo had a 3-4th team member. Pitt was shut out. All Pitt lacked to be were UCONN is a 6′ 10″ PF who can score and rebound.
Consider this: If it weren’t for one dumbass foul we would likely be playing a team we once lost to by 2 points and another time beat by double figures.
Khem Birch’s latest tweet.
Hard to project what might happen with the BB team next season but if we fans want PITT to be mentioned in the same breath with the “elites” then we have to get into the Final Four at least once.
I’m guessing the same would be uttered by Mack and Howard.
Look, I know there were flaws. But Jamie brings out the best in the players he puts on the floor.
Let’s hope such players are better next year.
Dixon and Knight need to jump on a plane, get on Skype, Twitter, Facebook, cell phone, whatever they have to to reassure Birch that he made the right decision.
Losing Birch to the this situation would be worse than mismanaging the last minute of a tournament game.
It sounds like this came as a surprise to Birch? THAT CAN’T HAPPEN!!!!
Come on Jamie don’t let us down.
Birch isn’t going anywhere. He signed the NLI. Even if he got out, there would be limited options. All Big East teams are eliminated because of conference rules. If you want to overreact to a tweet, go ahead. He’s upset, but will be fine.
Rest assured fans of ODU, Florida and Pitt are all watching Butler and muttering about how it could have, should have been them there tonight. Doesn’t make me feel better, but there are a few fan bases feeling the same way.
i totally get all the arguments to the contrary……..why wouldn’t bball players be free to go make money like fifteen-year-old tennis players and Disney Channel TV stars and American Idol singers?
But I feel like if everybody would just stop spending money on entertainment provided by fifteen year olds, that market would dry up and we could eliminate this argument and raise the NBA minimum age and improve the quality of college hoops.
The quality of entertainment AND the quality of college and NBA would improve. Everybody wins.
The NBA players association is the only hold out at this point. David Stern and his minions understand that keeping players in college for two/three years is good for business. The players are more recognizable and ready to contribute (both to the bottom line and to the product on the court).
Everybody wins.
The NBA is in real trouble, there are much bigger issues on the table in the next collective bargaining agreement. And even though the league/owners would love to raise the minimum entry requirements, I fear they aren’t going to be willing to fight for it given all the other issues.
Add to that the huge guaranteed money being paid to prospects and projects who rarely see the floor, if ever, and you have a formula for financial disaster. I think the owners recognize that so you may see a firmer stand than you think. At least, I hope so.
However, the history lesson largely misses the point I was trying to make (even though you conflated it with others).
Here’s the point:
*Dixon has never really been faced with this kind of Talent/Experience gap. So looking at precedent is only so helpful.
*It isn’t as simple as players who play well in practice play in games. Especially in November, if your goal is to be the best possible team in March.
*Watching Birch in the McDonald’s All American game, it is hard to deny his freakish ability. The ability is somewhat RAW. And true we haven’t seen him in a practice yet.
*He will take some development to be a big time contributer.
*Pitt will be MUCH better in March if Birch develops to anything close to his potential.
So the question is, how do you develop him? In practice?
And how much will the presence of a much less talented, but much more accomplished and experienced player in front of him retard that development?
It is fair to be concerned that Dixon will play the player who plays better in practice (22 year old, 4 year player) at the expense of a future star.
It is also fair to ask if there aren’t some programatic changes that could be made to have the team peaking in March instead of February.
Thank you for providing this forum for us die hards. It is a great opportunity for us to share thoughts, opinions, and gripes with others who are as passionate about Pitt hoops as we are.
Notice something?
His minutes/game varied wildly for the first 2 months of the season. Why? Because he was a freaking freshman who had performances varying from game to game and that affected his playing time. At the same time, he also showed that he was the best player at the position and earned more playing time over others as he more fully gained the trust and confidence of the coaches. Lamb didn’t just get handed the minutes. He earned them and saw the load increase.
No sane coach is going to just toss the a player out there and let him play without consequence in the name of seasoning the player for later that year or for next year. Letting him play regardless of mistakes or playing outside of the system and teammates. Even Calipari doesn’t do that.
Dante Taylor played right away as a freshman.
link to espn.go.com
He was given every opportunity to earn more playing time, but his performance didn’t merit it, so his PT went down in the second half of the season. Do you think Pitt should have just played him regardless?
Khem Birch, J.J. Moore and others will be given every opportunity to earn the playing time. The key remains, earning it.
Raising the age minimum will only make it better.
I expect Birch’s freshman year will be quite a ride. He’ll probably make jaws drop at times and heads scratch at others. He may be gone before we get to see what he can really do.
In our offense, the four is the guy who gets the ball in the middle of the other team’s 2-3 zone, and in man to man situations, someone who plays in the high post.
Can you really see us taking out Cuse’s 2-3 by throwing the ball into Dante Taylor? He’s kind of a turnover machine when he doesn’t just take the ball and dunk it. IMHO the last thing you want is Taylor with the ball on the floor.
Sure, there are times when there is great passing and great defense in NBA games, and there are a few teams who do that more often than most. But the norm seems to be more and more what I described. That’s how we played on the playgrounds back in the day, until we got into organized ball with actual coaches.
Admittedly, I don’t watch enough NBA ball to offer a fully informed opinion, but whenever I do regardless of who’s playing, that’s pretty much what I see. Like I said, I don’t think I’m alone.
Back in the days of Bird, Magic and then Jordan, the NBA regular season averaged around a 5 in the ratings for regular season games. The NBA finals always garnered double-digit ratings near a 15. Since Jordan retired, the regular season ratings have been on a steady decline and are now around a 2. Since 2005, the year of the current CBA, the finals ratings have been in single digits. The exception was last year when you had a matchup of the two storied franchises that Bird and Magic played for. Don’t you think nostalgia, not to mention the two biggest NBA-addicted markets, played into that a bit?
As you often like to say, the facts don’t lie. And I think the NBA owners have to be pretty worried about those facts.
I think very highly of your opinion on this site. I suggest you catch an NBA game or two in the next week. We can revisit the discussion after that.
I was an avid NBA fan. Had a big dish and watched games almost every night from all around the league. So, maybe it’s just the sampling of regular season games ESPN offers as well. We’ll talk again after the playoffs, Omar.
I think we both agree though that increasing the early-entry requirements will be good for both the college and NBA games. That’s actually the most important point.
I have watched lots of NBA basketball over the past 30-40 years (live and on TV). The regular season games are boring!!!! Too many games in a season makes individual games almost meaningless and the players (understandably so) play like it its just another day at the office. There is no serious emotionally charged effort put forth until the playoffs when personal pride is on the line.
Overall, I won’t bother to watch anymore until there are playoffs. As far as live games during the regular season are concerned, IMO, ts way way too expensive to watch what amounts to an exhibition.
Also true that the NBA playoffs are a different level. That is truly great basketball.
There was an extensive NYT profile a couple years ago on Shane Battier and how little respect he gets among many people involved with the pro game, but forward thinking GMS and stat heads are starting to quantify metrics in ways beyond Sportscenter and typical statistical categories, with Battier serving as an exemplary case. The rap on Battier — college player (4 years too), not athletic enough, undersized, etc.
Sports Illustrated likes what they see remaining at Pitt for 2011-12.
To paraphrase Green Day, wake me in December.
So TampaT, here’s what’s worked for me:
Watch a few regular season games, watch sports center, watch the Spurs (Blair) when they’re on TV, just so you kind of have an idea about the teams.
Then pick a playoff series or two and follow it. Watch the first quarter of the games, then go do something productive and check back in at the end of the third quarter and watch the fourth quarter.
By the time the semi’s and the finals roll around you’re invested/interested in what happens. Then watch the finals, it is a great event. Somewhere in that second tier of sporting events behind the big three:
NCAA Mens BB Tournament
Masters
Super Bowl
I don’t mind watching the Spurs because they play team ball to some degree and defense most of the time, and there’s Blair. It’s the teams who play one-on-one, on-two or on-three man offense and little or no defense that I can’t watch. There seem to be more of those now than ever. Some may disagree but the Heat and Lakers are the worst and they’re on all the time. Now that the Knicks have Mello, they’ve become the same way. He acts like he should get a bonus for playing D.
Like I said, I’ll give playoffs a chance, because I know teams will be playing their best. But I used to watch regular season games all the time, and I’ll bet you did too, when the game was more about team and basketball vs. individuals and “entertainment.” That’s going to kill the league if they don’t fix it IMHO.
Conversely, Dante Taylor did not; in fact from a few films that I saw, he played a lot of offense from the perimeter in high school and never posted up low. But most importantly, he clearly needed schooling in defending the low post (and still does although I believe he will step up next year.)
I’m not implying that Dante should have been put at the 4 as a freshman; I’m just saying that he had to learn a brand new position and a bit more patience is required.