Glad to see in the comments that people are slowly backing away from the apocalypse. Immediate reactions after a loss vacillated between frustrated to absolute doom and gloom.
I can’t say I am reading too much into this loss other than it was a loss. You will be hard-pressed to find another team that have the shooters, patience and discipline to play that way against Pitt. Even ND doesn’t try to do this very often. This game was so absurd in pace that it strikes me as an outlier. Teams might try it for stretches, but no team is going to be able to play that way for a full game that way. Certainly not young teams. Nash, Martin, Abromaitis, Hansbrough and Scott — ND’s entire starting line-up — are all seniors.
Last week we and the punditry were lauding Pitt for their patience against Syracuse’s zone. Willing to work the ball around to find the best shot, and conversely keeping Syracuse from getting quick baskets, and forcing the Orange deep into the shot clock. A loss like this and everyone is up-in-arms about Pitt not trying to push the pace and force the tempo. That Pitt was too patient and willing to play a slow game.
When both sides have so few possessions, and turnovers were equal, then to oversimplify it comes down to which teams shoots better. Notre Dame’s effective field goal % was 60.3, while Pitt’s eFG% was down at 46.3%.
Pitt shot better in the first half and had a five point lead (eFG%=50 for both teams, but Pitt had extra possessions). In the second half, the shooting was poor (eFG%=43.2). ND however was much, much better, with a eFG% of 72.2 in the second half.
That’s the oversimplification. Then there is what happened in moments of the game and much more.
Pitt wanted to take away their main offensive threats of Tim Abromaitis and Ben Hansbrough — especially on the perimeter. Both take close to 50% of their shots from outside the arc. Abromaitis was completely shut down — only getting one real chance (and was fouled on a drive). Hansbrough was only 1-6 from the 3-point line.
Hansbrough, though, did most of his damage in 5 straight possessions where he scored four times. Painfully broken down, here.
Unfortunately, Notre Dame as a team likes to shoot 3s. Scott Martin (of a 30.4 3FG% coming into the game) buried his first two 3s and added one more in the second half. Forward Carlton Scott shot 5-6 on 3s (0-5 everywhere else).
Scott was a big key for ND (and for the record, he was injured and missed 4 games that included 2 of ND’s 3 losses). Obviously for having an on game with his 3-point stroke (take a look at his per-game 3-point shooting to see what I mean), but also because he constantly dragged McGhee or Taylor far from the paint. Something that has haunted Pitt big men in the past, reared its head in this game.
Because ND is not that big inside, you would think Pitt would try and take advantage of that by getting it inside to McGhee, Taylor and Robinson more. Well they did. I know this is hard to believe, but remember how slow the tempo was — and more importantly how few possessions there were. The three of them combined to go 4-11 and a dismal 3-10 from the free throw line. That’s just a hair under a quarter of all of Pitt’s shots and the majority of the free throws (and all of the misses). As a percentage, the inside guys probably had more touches and chances than normal games.
Now I will agree with one criticism. Pitt should have at least used some token pressure on ND. Force the Irish to work harder to bring the ball up the court. Not to force turnovers so much as to reduce the time they had to run the “burn” offense. That might have helped Pitt stay more active defensively.
Otherwise, Notre Dame simply outplayed Pitt on both ends in the second half. They did better defensively against Pitt and continued to execute their offense with tremendous patience and efficiency. Sucks, but you have to tip the cap to them.
Maybe if ND works harder on the offensive end they become a bit more fatigued and possibly a little more sloppy at the end of the game.
I kind of put this one on lack of coaching adjustments, and very horrid free throw shooting percentage.
Make ND work harder in all aspects of the game, wear them down and hit your free throws.
The sky isn’t falling, there are no gimme games in the Big East.
A loss in January is obviously not the end of the world. But three consecutive losses to the same system without making a single successful adjustment deserves some attention.
Do agree with some peoples frustration. Chas you know I sing Jamie’s praises to high heaven, don’t know a fingertip of what he knows, kinda strange though, that he hasn’t come up with something against this offense.
Great teams would come out smokin’ Saturday at Rutgers and get back on track, we’ll see.
1) Longer, more athletic guards (or a double team scheme on defense) will contain Gibbs and frustrate him into an off-shooting night
2) Brad Wannamaker will have a game where his agression gets the best of him, and he is on the bench early with fouls…and cosequently checks out
If one of these events occur, we can usually survive. If both happen at the same time, then we absolutely need Gilbert to take over (meaning, take it to the rim, get fouled, get on the line…whatever)…
I saw that a couple times yesterday where Wanny is awol and Gibbs was being harrassed…Gil simply said…eff it, I’m going to the rim. Couple times he got a nice finger roll, the others he drew fouls (and he very promptly hit all of them!)
Gilbert Brown, the enigma…is the X factor for this team… I believe that more and more after last night.
My only tweaks would be
i) Gil took 15% of our shots when we was, to me, by far our best option the entire game. And he only drove three or four times – though each time resulting in points as either FGs or FTs. Offensive aggression from him i think would have been even more a difference maker than more aggression on D.
ii) the bigs did have more touches than normal games, but that’s a loaded/relative statement. Less than 20% from the front court means your at least a little unbalanced scoring-wise. It’s understandable given that our guards are our strength and the front court isn’t particularly strong on offense. So, its for this reason that getting frontcourt involved is something we should do a little more, just to develop that part of the game a little so its there when we need it. I think we could have used it last night but we were just ineffective down low (and also at the line). I’m worried it might happen again. (i know the regular season is not irrelevant, but we all know what the real goal is so I’m ok with experimenting/developing even if its at the expense of a game or two along the way).
Losing a game here and there is not a problem for me. It forces our team to focus on the areas they are weak in and gets them back on track as a team. It also keeps the players from getting to cocky (for lack of a better term).
The loss stings at the moment, but I see great things coming from this.
That and the problem of your starting 4 & 5 being such poor foul shooters is going to be the dagger that puts an end to the dream in the tournament.
I refuse to say JD was outcoached. His team, however was outplayed. Pitt, hopefully, will learn a lot more from this loss than any win.
Gil Brown scares me to death…having said that, this team will sink or swim in big games on his play.
There are way too many reasons for last night’s loss. Bad shots taken, out-of-control drives to the hoop, non-calls by officials, sleepy play on defense. Write it off and move on.
The only real frustration in this loss is that it was to ND playing that painful-to-watch style that beat us twice last year. Hate to compliment Brey, but he has figured out how to counter Jamie’s preferred style of play. Now, it’s up to Jamie to counter Brey, if it become necessary again this season.
Time to start another win streak and get back in the mix for a 1-seed in the Dance.
While some of the over-reaction to the loss can be a bit much…while I don’t agree with it…let’s just say I get it. Alot of the foundation for these type of responses has it’s roots based on something Pat Forde discusses in today’s mintues.
The Pitt paradox
Despite losing Monday night to Notre Dame, Pittsburgh (10) is again having a brilliant season. Once again, Pitt is ranked in the top five. Once again, the 19-2 Panthers are among the elite in the toughest conference in America.
And once again, everyone wonders whether Pitt will still be around when the going gets serious in late March and early April. More than ever after the home pratfall against the Fighting Irish.
In seven-plus seasons under Jamie Dixon (12), Pittsburgh has won 79 percent of its games and 72 percent of its Big East contests — but just 59 percent of its NCAA tourney games. Each of the past three years, Pitt has lost before its seeding dictates it should.
Are you OK with always being good, but never being good enough to win it all? Would you rather have the security of a 25-win season that maxes out at the Sweet 16, or the boom-and-bust cycles that can come with recruiting a lot of early-entry NBA prospects? Are the national title runs and Final Fours worth the occasional humility of missing the Big Dance? Would you trade the rock-solid chemistry and consistency of four-year players for the risk/reward of potential high-maintenance one-and-done guys?
Dixon and Ryan don’t recruit future first-round talent. From an NBA perspective, the vast majority of their players over the years have been JAGs — Just A Guy.
DaveD
There are, I believe, 351 div I basketball schools. For most teams, getting into the tourney is still a dream every year. Just watch the frenetic pace at the end of the year. Some of the best games, are the small conference finals, field houses living and breathing with every shot.
It is not like the bowl games, where just about everyone goes. Around the same time Forde’s comments were coming, they also spoke about, the Blair, Young, Fields team possibly being the best team in the country that year. Scottie Reynolds ended that. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, I know, but, that was, in fact, a National Championship caliber team.
Several years ago, Syracuse one year, Mich St. the other, were locks to win it all!! Number one most of the year, odds on favorites. Tourney is a crap shoot, one lost in the round of 32, the other in the sweet 16. It is extremely difficult to win the NCAA Tourney, even if you have the best team that particular year.
If you said to me, “wow, Dixon’s been there 20 or 30 years and never got a championship”, then I’d say, hmmmmmmmm. Seven years???? No, he easily gets a pass in my book. Took Boeheim 20 some years to get one I believe????
Yes, of course, like everyone else on here, I’m dying for a Fianl Four and a Ring, but, from where we were 20 years ago, to where we are now, I’ll be patient.
Also, with Khem Birch (sp?) coming, I believe he is the # 2 or 3 player in country depending on who you listen too. I’d say that’s a pretty big NBA type guy coming in next year, no???
I would also say, “ok with being good”, no, we are very, very, good every year, not just good.
Not arguing, your points are well taken and excellent and I see where you and many others are coming from, but, 6-7 years, when most coaches, MOST coaches never make it to the final four, I think Jamie deserves a little more slack.
We’ve become a basketball powerhouse, got more air time anymore, than just about any other time. Some analysts have picked us to win it in years past, and some this year, most saying definitely final four material. We can no longer play the disrespect card, we get more than our share of praise.
This could be the year, we could also get beat in the sweet 16 to Butler. This could be Ohio State’s year, they also could get upset in the round of 32 to Baylor. Maybe Duke? Maybe Duke gets upset by the College of Charleston. Very, very difficult thing to win a National Championship in college hoops.
I know the not beating a higher seed thing is a tough nut to swallow, but, I just don’t think you can judge this early. Remember, this is still very early in Jamie Dixon’s Pitt coaching career. (At least, I hope it is!)
The big men just didn’t execute on something they’re taught in practice every day — hedge hard on the pick and turn Hansbrough and give your guard time to get back in place. McGhee has historically been very good at this, much better than Blair who always picked up a cheap foul or two 40 feet from the hoop when he hedged.
You also have to give Hansbrough his due. At various times during the game he went past Gibbs, Woodall, Wanamaker and Brown. I repeat, none of them could stay in front of him. Didn’t matter who covered him, they would have had trouble. He’s too strong for Woodall, too quick for Gibbs and Wanamaker. He’s a good player who had a better-than-good night and Pitt helped that along by not executing on D. (I won’t even go in to the lack of help D toward the end.)
I’d also add that not many major conference teams are disciplined enough to play that way, but PLENTY of mid majors are. They know that’s one obvious method of beating a big name in tournament.
great points. why mcghee was switching on that screen is still perplexing to me? hansbrough did finish the plays and that isn’t easy.
also, great point about the mid-majors, but they probably don’t have a hansbrough or scott that will make the panthers pay for letting the weaker team hang around.
One reason for the lack of help D, I think, is that Scott and Martin had burned Pitt with 3s and Abromaitis is always a threat despite his having an off night. Again, credit Brey. He spread them out and the other Panthers were forced to follow. That made it a two-on-two game, and we lost every time. Again, I expect Jamie to come up with a wrinkle or two to stop that next time.
DaveD: I’m with Dan. Agree with your assessment with respect to the past, but I think you’re seeing that change with some of the new talent on the team and the recruits coming in. Jamie had to build a program that attracted NBA-level talent, while at the same time getting players that fit his system, much like Coach K did at Duke. This year’s team is certainly a Final Four contender, but I don’t think it’s the best we’ll ever see. Those teams are still to come.
Agree, most of the mid majors don’t have the players to get it done, but you do see teams that will have 1 quality guard and a big man or two. Kent State with Trevor Huffman and Gates comes to mind……..
Guess that’s what makes the tournament fun.
I wasn’t necessarily arguing on behalf of Forde’s points…I just am suggesting some of the outrageous “The sky is falling” comments after the ND loss can be attributed to those assertions posted in Dan Forde’s column on ESPN yesterday.
I think the loss gives a lot of folks the “Here we go again…we have seen it countless times…this team will come up flat at some point during the tourney…just like they did against Notre Dame.”
That was more of what I was trying to attribute the Forde column to…trying to explain some of the more knee jerk “Eeyore” mindset/reactions to the ND loss.
I am always hopeful that Pitt will push through that Final Four glass ceiling. It will be funny when it happens because the bar will be instantly raised from “When will Jamie Dixon get into the Final Four” to “When will Jamie Dixon when a National Championship” almost immediately after the Final Four loss.
Really this is a golden age for Pitt…great team with good players.
DaveD
I also agree that the expectation will get raised to NC once Jamie gets Pitt to the Final Four and then again after he wins a NC to multiple NCs. It’s part of his challenge, and Graham’s for that matter, of coaching in a pro town. It’s like some fans, and even some media types, think it’s as easy as filling the gaps like the Steelers and Pens do through the draft and free agency.
Problem is that the kids are in control of where they play in college, and they’re only with you for a short time. So, you have to build a program attractive enough to lure highly talented players who will stay for a few years. Jamie’s finally done that, and hopefully Graham will too.
