Agree with much of waht you say. As I commented previously to another poster, I don’t think we should be really worried unless there is a less than 9 win season (including bowl) and/or unless the recruit class averages significantly less than the ~3.00 of last year’s class.

Chas I actually like how you take a step back and have a pretty solid perspective on this. I agree with most everything you have. The one issue I do have though is that the local talent is absolutely fleeting. Even in down years, Pitt is able to snag a few local stars. Not sure that will happen this year. Hopefully, we can pull a few switches at the end of the process. These are kids and its a long process

I think that it just a natural thing to have up and down years with recruiting. There are some things that are just hit or miss. For example, we don’t know that the Fox Chappel OL did not choose PSU because he saw the opportunity to play sooner, or he just really liked the campus and coaches. In other words, it may have nothing to do with our record over the past five years. Over the last five years PSU’s recruiting classes have been ranked (starting with this year) 24, 43, 24, 6, 25. Pitt’s have been ranked 47, 28, 26, 21 and 38. As long as we don’t start to consistently rank in the 40’s we will be OK. Every team is built with five years worth of recruits. Unless you name is USC, no team stacks multiple 4 and 5 star players at any one position. I think that DW has done a good job of building a critial mass of top recruits over the past five seasons and we will continue to see the results in our W-L record. As far as the bowl games goes, it was a pure fluke, a craptacular, a rotten egg, and over with.

All provocation aside, it boils down to 3 simple things:

1) Pitt plays mediocre ball in a mediocre (at best) conference. Defend it all you want, but how amped up do you think potential recruits get playing at a half-filled (at best) stadium on a Thursday night? Do you think recruits don’t know (or aren’t told by other teams’ recruiters) that they haven’t won more than 9 games in 25 years? That they just went scoreless in the Sun Bowl?
2) DW has proven an inability to make something out of his pretty good recruiting classes. Who wants to go to college to be coached down?
3) You share a state with one of the most recently successful programs in the country (UPS, as you call it). Competing with a team that sells out 108,000 every game, has averaged 10 wins over the past 4 years, and has won one of the most media-dominated conferences (justifiably so or not) twice in said four years is, well, unfair, if not impossible.

Pitt needs to start building some serious hype, or they’re going to be in trouble. Just look at the disparity between the B10 and BE teams: Louisville, RU and WVU had GREAT seasons a few years back, and now they’re irrelevant. Michigan won 3 games last year, and well, they’re still Michigan in the eyes of recruits. It is what it is. Ditto a name brand like Notre Dame (sadly).

Schedule better competition, win the league title, bolt to the B10? I dunno. DW and Co. have to do something, because it’s going to get worse before it gets better…

Also, don’t think that recruits don’t know when they’re being badmouthed. The Pitt scout board is littered with insults, with some saying that his dad should be fired from the university. Every school has their nutjob fans, but seriously…recruits know about these kind of things too. Sour grapes to that kind of extent are just going to make it much, much worse…

frank–agree on the recruiting results angle. I took a similar look at (but Pitt only) recruiting rankings and used the other site which has Pitt’s recruiting results ranked somewhat higher (42, 11, 8, 25, 31) over the past 5-years. What’s also interesting is looking at rolling averages over time. I did that but only used a 4-year peeriods (5 would have been better) since the class of 2002 was the farthest back for which Scout had data. I also used average stars instead of rankings which are biased by the numbers of recruits brought in per year. On that basis (2002-03-04-05 = 2.58 avg. stars); (2003-04-05-06 = 2.61); (2004-05-06-07 = 2.85); (2005-06-07-08 = 3.11); (2006-07-08-09 = 3.29). The trend is certainly interesting. Looking at those numbers as if they were for a single class they equate for the recruiting classes of 2009 (ranked by average stars–not numbers of recruits) to #76 (2.58), #75 (2.61), #33 (2.85), #21 (3.11) and #16 (3.29). This data certainly supports your conclusion that as long as Pitt doesn’t slip into the 40’s that Pitt will remain fine overall talent wise. It was the 2003-04-05 classes that were killing us (2.42, 2.33, 2.38 average stars), IMO.

If they just lost Dieffenbach, but was still going to land a lot of top players that’s one thing, but from everything I’m hearing, this class won’t be nearly as good as last year’s class, which wasn’t nearly as good as those before it. So there is a definite trend here.

This is in response to “Pitt Sucks.” As a Pitt alum and super fan and also a Minnesota and Indiana fan, I feel I can give a pretty objective analysis of the B10 vs. BE comparison because in my opinion, the Big East is not incredibly inferior to the Big Ten anymore. The main reason why the Big Ten is “better” than the Big East is that the Big Ten has more teams and the wonderful tradition.
Below I would like to share some Big Ten/Big East teams that are very similar in my opinion and they help show the forming parody of the two leagues.

PSU and WVU: as much as I hate the Lions, they are a legit top 15 team. If they played in the SEC or if they quit playing the weakest non-conference schedule in existence, we would truly see that lack of competition makes PSU have an inflated record. Don’t believe me, ask USC.
Throw away last season and the Mountaineers have had a heck of a good five year run and have established themselves as a perennial top 25. They saved the Big East beating Georgia in the Sugar Bowl and have beaten Oklahoma, Auburn, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech in other non-conference big wins.

Indiana and Syracuse—I was angry that I wasted a couple hundred bucks seeing Indiana play PSU during a Pitt bye last year. They ran the ball the entire second half while trailing by multiple touchdowns to get out of the rain. Greg Robinson killed the ‘Cuse. Nuff said.

Minnesota and Pitt—two urban schools that play in half filled pro stadiums that usually get close to 7 and 5 records and disappoint band wagon fans year after year.

Wisconsin and Louisville—both overrated in the last two years and both trying to get back to the BCS picture

Michigan State, Rutgers, and South Florida—all three of these teams have had success with nice bowls recently and are muddled as top 20-30 ranked programs

Northwestern and Cincinnati—both schools had dream seasons last year, will they fold or thrive, I think they will both improve because Brian Kelly is a winner and Pat Fitzgerald has youth and energy

Diffenbach is the model of ineffective recruiting:

1) he is a LOCAL top prospect
2) his dad has been a coach at Pitt for several years
3) he is an OFFENSIVE LINEMAN. Pitt is, and has been, in dire need of OLs for a very long time. Sure, blame Stull for all of the offensive inefficiecies … but Shady didn’t exactly tear it up in the Sun Bowl, and none of the QBs in the spring scrimmage (nor RBs) showed much production.

Chas & pitt1972, you can underreact all you want but Pitt needs OLs and Diffenbach should have been “Priority One”.

Two more notes:

1) in Mike White’s blog in Post-Gazette, Diffenbach said that PSU promised him immediate playing time as a frosh, which is very uncommon at PSU. They have had several highly rated PSU recruits recently, and all were redishirted as freshmen.

2) It appears that a 5 and 7 season but significant win (13 to 9) in the last game of the year means much, much more to recruits than a 9-win season but crappy bowl game.

clarification of previous post … PSU has had several highly-rated “OL” recruits recently,and all were redshirted as freshmen

So if Wanny starts losing out on “good” recruits he is getting, what would be keeping him here as coach? It sure is not the coaching, the relationship with the AD, or the on-field results.

I just dont think Dave is what the program needs to get where we, the fans, alum, etc., want it to be. However, it is where Pitt wants it to be…so until Pitt changes their expectations or continue to be mediocre (last season’s cream puff schedule aside), we are stuck.

AJ:

Even if the B10 is similar to the BE in talent level (which I disagree with), it is impossible to ignore that the public perception differs greatly. Tradition, fan bases, media coverage…light years apart. I’ll bring up the example of WVU, UL and RU once more…they had great years a few years back, and now no one really cares about them anymore. You won’t see that kind of fall-off for B10 teams, even if the record isn’t there.

Lastly, PSU typically has a decent OOC schedule, this year is the exception. I know that it’s the chic thing to do right now, bagging on our games, but remember we have ‘Bama, Miami, UVA and possibly Nebraska coming up soon…

Mark–it is way too early to really predict how this year’s class will end up in February 2010.

“clarification of previous post … PSU has had several highly-rated “OL” recruits recently,and all were redshirted as freshmen”

This is untrue. De’Onte Pannell played last year, and will likely start this year. Eric Shrive will likely see action this year as well.

Pitt sucks — Pannell is the exception and we will see about Shrive …. but note that Reed, Shipley, Wisnewski, Marmo and the kid from Erie about 5-6 years ago (can’t remember his name) all were rated as highly or higher than Diffenbach at this point, and all were redshirted …. and this is just off the top of my head; I know there are a handful of others.

Pitt sucks — Pannell is the exception and we will see about Shrive …. but note that Reed, Shipley, Wisnewski, Marmo and the kid from Erie about 5-6 years ago (can’t remember his name) all were rated as highly or higher than Diffenbach at this point, and all were redshirted …. and this is just off the top of my head; I know there are a handful of others.

Pitt Sucks: This year is not the exception to PSU’s shameful OCC schuedules. I started watching college football in the 1994/1995 season as a fifth grader. I began to hate PSU because every week I would see them manhandle the likes of great teams like Bowling Green, Toledo, Louisana Tech, Temple, and Akron.

You guys have one hell of a great non-conference schedule this year: Temple, Eastern Illinois, Akron, and Syracuse. (a 1-AA team and three teams ranked over 100)Five easy wins out of a twelve game season.

AS for Miami and Nebraska, they are not much better off than Pitt presently which isn’t saying much for a program that claims it is a national powerhouse.

Pitt is not a national powerhouse so I judge recruiting, occ schedules, and attendence differently than I do PSU’s.

w bill – Wiz did not redshirt either.

AJ – How is this not the exception? In previous years we had ND, Miami (when they were great), NU (when they were good), BC, Oregon State, etc.

Coming soon we have the teams I mentioned. As for this year, we scheduled Syracuse the year after they won the Orange Bowl. How is it our fault that they suck now?

What does any of this have to do with recruiting? I mentioned the reasons why I think Pitt will continue to see a downturn in recruiting. The author originally said that “If Pitt can have a good season — 8 wins or more — then recruiting will pick up again.”

Really? I’m sorry, but I don’t see 8+ win seasons drawing the elite level talent.

Excuse me,but are the blogs being monopolized by the distinguished Mr. Pitt Sucks? Why sir, don’t you confine your ramblings to the PSU blogs? There is nothing new about the Nits, they have been an elitist gridiron fraud since they graduated from “Aggie”status during the”Great War”. As for Papa Joe and his minions, “Bring ’em on”. From Columbus, Big Eleven Country I remain:

Pitt Sucks: You forgot to mention those other perennial powerhouses that your Nits also played in the past several years: Florida International, Coastal Carolina, Akron and Youngstown State. When are you people going to realize that your record is artificially inflated by playing patsies on your non-conference schedule year in and year out. This year’s noncon is the rule, not the exception.

Can’t believe I’m writing this but have to agree with Pitt Sucks in that 8 wins in the BE will not do it …. the new standard has to be double-digit wins and a BCS berth every other year, or we cannot compete for the top recruits who are being courted by the teams with the 90,000+ attendance.

I do disagree with Pitt Sucks about the OOC schedule, however. The OOC schedule has not been attractive over the past few years, and the 09 OOC is a joke … but then again, PSU would draw 106,000 for a game with Juniata.

However, the main disageement will always be discontinuing the Pitt-PSU series. Two schools within the state and 3 hours apart that have played 100 times, where the winning school has won less than 53% of the time, constitutes as good as a rivalry as there is in college football. But again, as long as people flock to Happy Valley for the Central Floridas of the world, we are not likely to see any changes in the near future.

We shouldn’t panic just yet. Faith plays a big part in football and I have enough of it to believe that we can survive a down 2010 class, if that is what it turns out to be. The 2009 class wasn’t a brilliant one, but it was one that added depth.

This depth is going to kick in very slowly. Insurance is always a good idea. You never know when a Bearcat or a wandering Scarlet Knight is going to strike cheaply at one of our boys.

It beefed up a defense that looks like a top 5 bully. It’s going to be feared this season, specially if someone can properly fill in the MLB spot. As for the offense …*moves lower lip over top one and shrugs*. There should be enough razzle dazzle to keep the weak of mind clapping like a toy monkey. I can’t defend the offensive side of the recruiting process without looking like a blind flag waver, but again, we must keep the faith.

Just like the upcoming basketball season, we must take a wait and see approach. The best news that we can receive is that we have heavy position battles. I want to hear that Stull’s job is no longer safe and that youth is pushing the upperclassmen on the OL. These are the issues we should be more concerned with. It is understandable though to feel a little nervous about our recruiting situation, it’s natural to feel this way. I choose to view things positively but it’s hard to keep the smile on for prolonged periods of time. I am going to remain patient and will reserve my sweat for September 5th. Only time will tell, but time does not heal all wounds…just ask West Virginia, 13-9 baby. Sorry, that’s just my positive side.

Oh we should definitely play each other, of that I have no doubt.

All I was attempting to do was post a rational analysis as to why Pitt has been losing the recruiting battles lately. Yet another one today…Ricketts.

I do post on the PSU boards, of course, but I don’t understand why fans of other teams cannot post civilly on other team’s boards.

You might not agree with my assessment on PSU’s OOC schedule, but I was more interested in the recruiting anyways.

Mr. Pitt Sucks…look..perception unfortunatley trumps reality these days especially with a bias media that shoves these perceptions down your throat until they become reality. The fact is Pitt does have an attendance/fan support issue. It is obvious. However, if Pitt can consistently start winning the BE and represent at the BCS bowl, Pitt fills their stadium and PSU loses the only advantage they ever really had. Because, lets face it, the Big Ten is living on its perception, not reality. Here is the reality:

In this decade, the Big Ten is 0-4 against the Pac-10 in the Rose Bowl, and the scores give an indication of the chasm between winner and loser:

2009 Rose Bowl: USC 49, Illinois 17

2008 Rose Bowl: USC 49, Illinois 17
2007 Rose Bowl: USC 32, Michigan 18
2004 Rose Bowl: USC 28, Michigan 14
2001 Rose Bowl: Washington 34, Purdue 24

The league’s problems in the Rose Bowl date so far back that Washington, 0-12 this season, helped contribute to them.

The Big Ten is 4-9 in all BCS games in this decade. Seven of those nine losses came by at least 13 points. Only one of the four victories came by more than a touchdown. By contrast, two of the four came in overtime. (Here is where fans of Miami, who lost 31-24 in double overtime in the title game to Ohio State in the 2003 Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, howl about That Pass Interference Penalty.) The other is Penn State’s 26-23 triple-overtime victory over Florida State in the 2006 FedEx Orange Bowl.

Oh, by the way, Since 1990, the Big East has beaten the SEC in head to head matchups 19-14. Also, the Big East has gone on to win their BCS title games against Big 12, SEC, and ACC opponents in the last 5 years.

These are FACTS people. Now you tell me who the better conf is. The nitters like to bust on the BE teams, but lets take a look at some traditional softies right there in their own conference. Indiana, Minnesota and Northwestern are NOT respected nationally and are usually a W on the Big Ten sched. Throw in current laughing stock Michigan and all of a sudden the Big Ten sched along with PSU patsy OCC looks like puff city. Oh…and by the way, Pitt beat Iowa last year….I think PSU had a little trouble with them last year, right?…with everything on the line….
Perception is everything…and 100,000 plus screaming fans cover up a lot of truths.

Mr. Pitt Sucks…look….perception unfortunatley trumps reality these days especially with a bias media that shoves these perceptions down your throat until they become reality. The fact is Pitt does have an attendance/fan support issue. It is obvious. However, if Pitt can consistently start winning the BE and represent at the BCS bowl, Pitt fills their stadium and PSU loses the only advantage they ever really had. Because, lets face it, the Big Ten is living on its perception, not reality. Here is the reality:

In this decade, the Big Ten is 0-4 against the Pac-10 in the Rose Bowl, and the scores give an indication of the chasm between winner and loser:

2009 Rose Bowl: USC 49, Illinois 17

2008 Rose Bowl: USC 49, Illinois 17
2007 Rose Bowl: USC 32, Michigan 18
2004 Rose Bowl: USC 28, Michigan 14
2001 Rose Bowl: Washington 34, Purdue 24

The league’s problems in the Rose Bowl date so far back that Washington, 0-12 this season, helped contribute to them.

The Big Ten is 4-9 in all BCS games in this decade. Seven of those nine losses came by at least 13 points. Only one of the four victories came by more than a touchdown. By contrast, two of the four came in overtime. (Here is where fans of Miami, who lost 31-24 in double overtime in the title game to Ohio State in the 2003 Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, howl about That Pass Interference Penalty.) The other is Penn State’s 26-23 triple-overtime victory over Florida State in the 2006 FedEx Orange Bowl.

Oh, by the way, Since 1990, the Big East has beaten the SEC in head to head matchups 19-14. Also, the Big East has gone on to win their BCS title games against Big 12, SEC, and ACC opponents in the last 5 years.

These are FACTS people. Now you tell me who the better conf is. The nitters like to bust on the BE teams, but lets take a look at some traditional softies right there in their own conference. Indiana, Minnesota and Northwestern are NOT respected nationally and are usually a W on the Big Ten sched. Throw in current laughing stock Michigan and all of a sudden the Big Ten sched along with PSU patsy OCC looks like puff city. Oh…and by the way, Pitt beat Iowa last year….I think PSU had a little trouble with them last year, right?…with everything on the line….
Perception is everything…and 100,000 plus screaming fans cover up a lot of truths.

apologies…how could I mess this fact up. Correction on the 2009 Rose Bowl:

2009 Rose Bowl: USC 38, State Penn 24

ahhhh…thats better

Too early to worry about recruiting. The Pantheroos have always been a late closer and pick up a lot of WPIAL kids that are overlooked in the early recruiting process. They also recruit nationally better than Penn State.

The whole *** thing is a hoax. You only get ***** if USC, FL, OSU etc. offer you and you did all the camp/combine stuff. These kids haven’t even stepped on the field for their Sr. Year.

The whole OOC thing is a scam, too. Most big time programs try to schedule only one “good” OOC and some “patsy’s”. Look at the “Big 12” schedules. And, we have YSU and Buffalo to kick off our Fall. Hardly much different than Directional Illinois, Akron or Temple.

The whole Syracuse thing at Penn State (and PITT and the BE for that matter) is a abomination. They were supposed to be a “marque” program and Greg Robinson screwed it up.

So, Pitt will be OK when NLOI signing comes. Unfortunately, there just aren’t many highly rated QB’s out there. I live in Allentown, Gonzales is a good Athlete but has a long way to go to be a good fit as a QB in Wanny’s system.

I agree with Greg. If Wannstedt’s recruiting magic is drying up, there is not much about him to project improved play on the field. Since Cavanaugh was forced out last winter, Wannstedt has looked angry, disinterested. He at least used to spout unbridled optimism. When I send my annual check to the athletic department, I will add this request: compared to the success of the Walt Harris era, when is the Wannstedt era going to be judged by reality not hyper expectations? I would rather spend my $$ supporting a men’s basketball team that will no doubt over-achieve again next season.

^^^ Tony – since when does the PITT BB team overachieve? They constantly underachieve in the NCAA tournaments.

Tony, last year’s team was a number 1 seed team going into the NCAA’s and they struggled at every turn in the tourney. I am proud of them making the elite eight, but last year was “the year”, all the parts were in place. They were better earlier in the year than when they finished. Don’t play injuries and stuff as an excuse. If you think that the BE beats up the kids more than the ACC or other conferences, your smoking something. By April, all those kids from tourney teams are tired and sore from all the tough games, practices, conference tourneys and the NCAA.

link to community.post-gazette.com

As you know by now, another local OL with Pitt ties goes to PSU.

Tony & Reed, Pitt BB teams almost always overachieve in the BE in that they finish higher than projected. This past season, they finished as projected … preseason polls (inlcuding BE coaches) had them behind UConn and UL.

Because of their good BE reg season and BE tourney showings (last year notwithstanding), they usually get a higher seed (and ranking) than originally projected, and usually do not meet these expectations.

I think that painful bowl game exposed just how bad the QB situation is and that has to scare off any offensive talent. And sadly there is nothing on the horizon. Had we won the Sun Bowl 31-10, I think this would be a whole different story.

Anyone who thinks recruits only care about winning should think again. Many players would come to play for DW and Pitt simply because they see playing time and a path to the nfl. Despite Pitts real lack of success, we still manage to send good, high quality players to the NFL year after year and that is incentive enough for recruits. The alternative is to play for Ol Pa, wait until you are a senior to play, in the mean time engage in some illegal activities, and then be a major draft bust….tough choice huh

hey Rex, True, we recruit some blue chips that get to the NFL regardless of what our coaches do to hold them back. I am sure we did a lot to improve Larry Fitz’s talent for the NFL. Shady, only played two years for incompetent DW and Cav, so we really developed him, didn’t we?

We can’t throw stones about “illegal” activities…grabbing a girl’s ass on a bus or grappling with cops at a club aren’t exactly the news I want to hear about the PITT program. (Actually, most programs have similar trouble). We are way ahead of PSU in the Fulmer Cup, so maybe we should keep talking about our superior BB team. Realistically, that is about all we have better than PSU in athletics!

I just get so pissed at the PITT Athletic Department. We used to play great traditional football programs. Other than ND and WVU, no football expert (outside of the BE) would brag about Louisville, Connecticut, S. Fla., Cincinnati. Traditionally, they were the “patsies” we used to beat up on to bolster our record. Now, we’re one of them! Syracuse was great in the 50-60’s (like we were) but what are they now? And we bust PSU’s chops for scheduling them? Rutgers..had some brief success, but hardly a team you call a “rival”. By the way, bust PSU for scheduling them! I long for the days when you could count on Army, Navy, Boston College, Penn State, ND, WVU, Miami to make up one hell of a core of the schedule…(of course Army, Navy are pretty irrelevant any more). So, what do we have to be proud about in BE football.

Dave:
Dave W is not using BE football to out advantage. After Miami bolted, Pitt should have been the new Miami of the league. Certainly, we had to continue out-recruiting Penn State in our own back yard. I think the Pitt athletic department is asleep at the wheel – has been this entire winter & spring. Old Joe Paterno has his issues but by making expansion talk headlines he has captured the news. Recruits only see tidbits anyway. I work with 16-20 year old athletes one news flash and they are hooked. Dave W. has said nothing, nothing. Make the news Dave – you don’t have to be a nutcase like the new Tennessee coach.

By the way, for those who called me on my use of “over-achieve” with regard to Pitt hoops, let me rephrase: The ongoing success of the Pitt basketball program is now nationally known. When random bloggers had a chance to respond to Paterno’s comments about Big 11 expansion, most were quick to point out that Pitt would never leave the BE because of basketball. The football program, by contrast, has been described in the most unflattering terms.

“hey Rex, True, we recruit some blue chips that get to the NFL regardless of what our coaches do to hold them back. I am sure we did a lot to improve Larry Fitz’s talent for the NFL. Shady, only played two years for incompetent DW and Cav, so we really developed him, didn’t we?”

So what about Jeff Otah, branded a project, turned into a first round pick. What about Scott McKillop, hardly a blue chip recruit? What about Mike McGlynn? Clint Session? Or Charles Spencer? Or Larod Stephens Howling???

Are the wheels falling off the Pitt wagon??? DW was brought in to recruit from WPa, something Harris couldn’t do…with loosing Tom Ricketts, that’s now the top 5 WPIAL recruits to choose PSU over Pitt. Maybe these kids have seen how DW mis-uses his recruits!

For every Mike McGylnn, Scott McKillop, etc. I can give you 5 guys that panned out to nothing – Fields, Bostick, Collins immediately come to mind.

Sure they do get a few players to the pros – but do does East Teenessee State, The College of Charleston, Akron, etc.

It’s not as much who you get but what you do with them collectively. Please try to keep a straight face and tell me you honestly see the Pitt team in the next 3 years competing for a national title, which would be over 3 years later than dave’s original timeline. Heck, can you even say the future looks any brigher then it did when he took over? I really can’t.

Its time we start taking off our rose-colored alumni-buttkissing glasses and truly evaluate the job Dave is doing as the head coach of the program. His job is to bring Pitt back to national prominence. I’m not seeing it.

So Greg, you are saying that every player on other teams does pan out? I dont see the point. I hope you are exagerating to make your point but Pitt has about 25 or so current players on nfl rosters. ETU has one, COC has zero and Akron has about 7.

Since 2000, Pitt has had 23 players drafted, doesnt include all those that signed as free agents. Akron has had 6, ETU had zero, COC is not even on the list. The reason why that is impressive is that Pitt does not typically get the big time recruits and yet we manage to send a lot of quality players that play a long time in the nfl. That says something for the program.

As far as winning, its time we as Pitt fans stop pretending its 1980. Every other program in the country is trying to win a national title too and only a handful have the chance to actually do it year in and year out. The problem for Pitt seems to be that we never have a total team. When we had a good offense, we had no D. Now we have a pretty good D and a dud at QB. I do see a Pitt team that is gaining depth at many skill positions and one that is playing an aggressive D. If our offense ever comes along they could be a very good team. I think without Cav we will see improvements. Please dont take this as an apology for DW and crew, I am just trying to have a realistic view of expectations for this program.

Rex, you are correct that the top teams compete for the best players. But many have no aspirations on a National Championship.

What I can’t understand is how we lose the best WPIAL talent to the out of state crowds. Losing Pryor was unacceptable to both Pitt and PSU…but he really didn’t fit either program. Truth is, he probably would only be a bit player for the Nits this year and who knows what Wanny and Cav would have tried for him (had Pitt ever been in the conversation). Also, to lose those Gateway kids to OSU is a sin. Terry Smith should be banned from the Pitt and PSU campus! PSU is just as bad. They continually lose some of the top central and easten kids to BC, FL, (oh my God) Rutgers.

Recruiting is a tough grind. Wanny will close fast next fall/winter, but the low hanging fruit will mostly be gone. Look for some more Medium ranked Texas kids to fill some voids (not all that bad an alternative).

Good news is PSU is about out of Scholies for WPIAL kids. They’ll be thrashing around NJ and Maryland for the next few months.

One more thing I just can’t understand is how the Athletic Department agrees to having games on Wednesday and Thursday nights. That’s got to hurt recruiting some? Yeh, I know, $$$$ from ESPN. But Thursday night football sucks (IMHO).

Rex and others, I wish that you would keep naming Stull as the sole reason for Pitt’s offensive woes. Please consider:

1) the Sun Bowl player of the game was a defensive lineman
2) Shady didn’t have a good Sun Bowl
3) except for Stull’s TD pass to Baldwin in the initial series, there was nothing to cheer about on the offensive side of the ballin the spring game. NO QB, RB or receiver looked good.

ALL of the above points to the futility of the offensive line …. which makes the losses of Dieffenbach and Ricketts all the more troubling.

I think we only got three O-linemen in the 2009 class and three in the 2008. It appears we have a real void there unless Wanny is planning on switching some D-Linmen. The 2010 class really seems to be where we need to recruit depth in the O-Line.

W Bill — Even presuming we need OL help NOW, neither of the two recruits who just elected to go to PSU would have made any difference whatsoever before the 2011 (at the earliest) or 2012 season.

I agree with w bill…you can never have too many quality O-linemen. They tend to get hurt and some never make it back up that steep hill. Face it, the Sun Bowl debacle was really a O-line problem, not Stull’s or Shady’s. The cupboard seems a little bare on the O-line.

we need them now and we’ll need them then

pitt, you keep glossing over the fact that these are highly rated OLs (especially Dieffenbach) with major Pitt ties. None of the OL recruits in the incoming class are rated as high nor, except for Nix and Jacobsen, are any of the current linemen (although Pinkston, when healthy, is real good)

Rex: The records speak for themselves. Dave Wannstedt has brought mediocrity as the standard at Pitt. I could care less about how much NFL talent he is sending off to the pros early. I care about Pitt winning games.

w bill–lest anyone think I am not disappointed that these two got away let me say that isn’t the case. I am extremely disappointed. However, I am only partly convinced that even if Pitt were defending undefeated national champs, were in the B10, had a full 90,000+ stadium every week, etc. that this would have gone down any other way–other than the specific choice of school other than Pitt. IMO, from the tone of the player’s quotes, my reading of the tea leaves, is that both were mostly motivated by wanting to go to a school that wasn’t in a city and wasn’t quite so close to home more than they were by anything else. It is natural for the vast majority of kids to want some distance separation from parents when they go to college. Even when I and my siblings were college bound,way back in the 1965-75 era, only 1 of us stayed close to home (a very shy sister of mine) for college. In this instance, there is also the added factor of some extra pressure on you if you are a “legacy” or your parent works in the athletic department. It is not surprising that either consciously or subconsciously a kid might want to escape that issue as well. Finally, the fact that the two are friends also played a role here. Once one jumped, the other followed.

I do agree that we need to bring in some quality OL prospects this year. It maybe that now the prep school/JUCO route may need to be tapped looking for another Otah or two, if possible. In any event, it still is only early June and Pitt hasn’t even held its camp yet, there is plenty of time to evaluate and find talent that will emerge at camp and go after guys who “blow-up” senior year. So, I will remain reasonably optimistic on the overall recruiting front at least till I see how Pitt performs on the field and on the recruiting front into the mid-late fall.

How refreshing it is to read such intelligent comments as “Pitt” just offered. What he writes is right on. Much too much is made of the so called “Blue Chip” recruits. I look forward to some major surprises emerging from our recruits. We could not have a more loyal and experienced head grid coach than the one we have. Time will confirm that proposition. How much time? You will be able to answer that query after the forthcoming season. From “Buckeyeland” I remain a proud Panther.