for what it’s worth,ere is my take on Pitt’s bench:

There is little doubt that G Brown has all of the tools — his problem now is inconsistency which is common for many underclassmen — but this is his 3rd year in the program and hope he picks it up soon.

Wannamker is too aggressive some times, but is much improved as a shooter and a good defender against the 2 or 3 — thus far, he has been the most valuable ench player this year, no question.

Gibbs is best pure shooter but probably needs improvement as a defender and ballhandler based on his limited action.

Robinson is an in-betweener — not tall enough to be a dominant forward, and not good enough shooter for the 2 or 3 position — but he is an effort guy who can be a very valuable contributor to this program in the next few years.

for what it’s worth, here is my take on Pitt’s bench:

There is little doubt that G Brown has all of the tools — his problem now is inconsistency which is common for many underclassmen — but this is his 3rd year in the program and hope he picks it up soon.

Wannamker is too aggressive some times, but is much improved as a shooter and a good defender against the 2 or 3 — thus far, he has been the most valuable ench player this year, no question.

Gibbs is best pure shooter but probably needs improvement as a defender and ballhandler based on his limited action.

Robinson is an in-betweener — not tall enough to be a dominant forward, and not good enough shooter for the 2 or 3 position — but he is an effort guy who can be a very valuable contributor to this program in the next few years.

As far as the question about Hugh Green, all I can say is that I spotted him at the Pitt-Notre Dame game this year and he looked like he was doing well. Haven’t heard anything to the contrary.

I remember he (Hugh G) was an annual all-pro while toiling in the anonymity of playing for a poor Tampa team, and then he was in the car wreck and was never even close to the same player since, and his career was shortened. However, except for brief appearnces at a few Pitt games, I have not seen him or know what’s going on about him.

It looks like Isaiah Epps is shining. His team took down Cheek and St. Ant’s the other day.

Story:
link to hailtopitt.blogspot.com

Dixon does mix it up a lot between the 2/3/4 and I’d add that Patterson looked more like a 3 to me when I’ve seen him on TV. He didn’t handle it a lot and got most of his pts inside. (Hoping that’s just because he could overpower the comp. The same was true of Wannamaker when he got here and he’s managed to improve his perimeter game.)

That’s going to be the issue next year — tons of young talent in the frontcourt and big question marks in the backcourt. I think the frontcourt will be the best in the nation, which is really exciting (contingent on Blair returning,and I think he will), but I think Wannamaker, Gibbs, and Woodall will really struggle handling the ball next year.

Question — does Patterson now play for the same team as Cheek? and if so, I did not see any mention of him in the article about the game listed above in Willy R’s post

Patterson plays for St. Benedicts. Cheek plays for St. Anthony’s. St. Anthony’s coach, Bob Hurley, is one of the best in the nation, though his son is the coach of St. Ben’s

No, Patterson plays for Bob Hurley’s son, Danny, at St. Benedict’s, I think. (Danny was the one-time left-handed guard at Seton Hall.)

Bob coaches St Anthony’s and he’s got Cheek and a bunch of other big-time recruits.

confirmed – BTW, here is latest about Patterson from Pantherlair from this past weekend:
St. Benedict’s Prep (N.J.) 77, Wheeler (Ga.) 67

Tristan Thompson came up big for St. Benedict’s.
Tristan Thompson (St. Benedict’s Prep, committed to Texas) 20 points on 7-13 shooting, 6-11 from the line, 13 rebounds, 3 blocks, 6 turnovers in 28 minutes

Thompson led his team in scoring with aggressive play around the basket. He has a lethal second jump and does a great job retrieving his own misses and chasing down balls outside his area.

Lamar Patterson (St. Benedict’s Prep, signed with Pittsburgh) 19 points on 8-14 shooting, 0-1 from three, 3-4 from the line, 13 rebounds, 1 steal, 2 assists, 4 turnovers in 20 minutes

Patterson was very productive playing a power game in the lane. He has a feel for using his body, and should be successful in Pittsburgh’s style of play.

Wannamaker is definitely an above average athlete. I don’t know what anyone has seen that would indicate anything to the contrary. He has problems finishing aren’t because of athleticism. He hesitates too much and doesn’t finish layups with his left hand. His quickness and speed are above average for a guy his size and he can jump when he has a few steps. His vertical isn’t the greatest. He is going to be a real player for Pitt. It will be frustrating, but I think he is going to be an all-conference type player by his senior year.

Also, where is the poster who kept saying Texas is a top-5 team. How is that working out for you?

I’m surprised we haven’t heard from that Duke fan who tends to show up every few months when Pitt loses a game. We probably will hear from him soon since Duke should now be No. 1 with Wake’s loss tonight.

It is all madness about who is No. 1 right now .. but our argument is that Pitt has the best loss (69-63 at UL) than any other 1-loss team. Almost everyone else lost at home and Duke lost to Michigan who just an average Big 10 team who was just blown out by PSU. Sure, it really doesn’t mean much but what the heck!!

Duke will get put at #1 because they’re Duke.

Like it or not, but Duke or UNC will always get the benefit of the doubt just based on name recognition. It doesn’t make it right I know, but what can we do?

I was watching the UNC v. Clemson game, but couldn’t take Vitale’s sickening praise for future NBA draft bust Tyler Hansborough.

Hansborough and Tebow: ESPN’s great white hypes!!

BTW, just for reference, between now and when the next rankings come out Duke plays Maryland at home and UConn plays at 19 Notre Dame.

We need to worry about picking up a win in Morgantown. Yes, we’re more talented than the Hoopies, but it’s always a tough place for us to play at.

Sunday’s game is a must win. We have to prove that we can win big games on the road. Villanova on Wednesday is the one that will probably be a heartbreaker. We do not do well against guard oriented teams, another is Marquette.

Last thing we need right now is freaking Providence breathing on us. They are coming together but still a year or two away from a potential top 5 or 6 Big East team. If we can go 2-1 in our next three games(WVU, Villanova, Notre Dame), then we get 2 snackers(Robert Morris and DePaul) to give our bench some more crucial playing time.

February looks like a good month for us. We play Uconn at Storrs but the other games are very winnable. It would be amazing to only have 2 losses going into this month so our big 3 can rest for March.

Wake loss last night and it got me thinking how far will they fall. NC lost to an unranked BC at home and only dropped to #2, Pitt lost to a ranked L’ville on the road and dropped to #4. ACC bias…

There is an ACC bias in the polls in both FB and BB partly because the coaches in coaches poll and the media covering them in AP are very provincial and protective. This is especially alarming in the FB poll since the poll is more pertinent … and the ACC has 2 teams vs BE’s eight, however, coaches poll in BB helps the bE since there are 16 coaches. I believe you will see Wake take a bigger drop n he polls than you think because they lost at home to an unranked team. I stated in a previous post that of all the 1-loss teams, Pitt as the best loss … but Duke and UNC are perceied as the two best programs, warranted or not.

I wish folks would stop debating the rankings and supposed ACC bias. The rankings, until it’s seeding time (and sometimes even then) are absolutely devoid of meaning. Who cares how many slots a team falls after a loss? And NC and Duke are perceived as the two best programs because, over the last 20 yrs they’ve accounted for about 20-25% of the participants in the Final 4. Until others dominate over the long haul, all the criticism just comes off as envy.

On another subject…..glad somebody’s convinced Wanamaker is an above-average athlete. If all he needs is a few steps to jump, then he’ll just have to convince the opposing teams to wait until he gets his run-up…………hope everyone’s agreeable to that.

Seriously, though, he has played much better this year and it seems like he’ll be a solid contributor for the rest of his time. But we’re not talking about an eventual all-conf candidate, we’re talking about a decent role player. Let’s get real — all-conf players are stars and nothing Wanamaker has done would make anybody think he’s developing into a star.

Hugh, I am very impressed with your observations. For the second time on this thread, I couldn’t agree with you more. Your comments are fair and show a great deal of common sense; something often lacking on sites of this nature. Yes, the above mentioned ACC teams will continue to be perceived as the model programs, until it becomes evident in March that they have faltered. But because they have quality coaches and recruit quality players, I don’t see that happening anytime soon. The high school players see NC and Duke as elite programs year in and year out, supported by fact, that a number of McDonald’s All-Americans attend their schools each year. Certainly not trying to take anything away from Pitt’s success, but I long for the day that the country’s top high school All-Americans feel honored to be recruited by Pitt. Again, not trying to degrade the improvement of Wannamaker, but his physical talent will only allow him to go so far at this level. Brad, from what I’ve observed, works hard and has improved with his decision making, but to carry a team and be an all-conference player, in the toughest over all conference in America, is a real stretch. Let’s not be envious of NC and Duke let’s just beat them in March to prove we’re better. So far, talk is cheap, until we prove our point.

Hey,thanks Itl, nice to feel like somebody agrees with me! Part of being a good fan is being realistic, right?

Someday, after we’ve seen Pitt in a couple Final 4s, we can start talking about getting respect. And the idea of that doesn’t sound as far-fetched as it once did, which is just great.

Contrary to opinions some may hold, I have it on good authority that ltl and hugh green are not the same individual. LOL

[…] Hitting a girl is wrong. You don’t need me to tell you that. But should the incident be fair game during a basketball … game? Here is what two commenters had to say in the Pitt Syracuse Open Thread. […]

Hugh:

Is a vertical the only way to measure athleticism? Come on! The lateral quickness and speed on Wannamaker is way, way above average for a player his size. His hand-eye coordination is phenomenal (see the play where he pick-pocketed Johnny Flynn cleanly on Monday). The kid is easily an above average athlete.

By the way, you and ltl should get a room.

Sorry gentlemen, evidently it’s a sin when two people perceive things the same way on this site. I guess if I called Hugh’s comments riduculous that would make me a man, right Omar? But God forbid, we see things a little less distorted than you do, right Omar. The way you love Wannamaker makes me think you ought to try to be his agent when he goes to the NBA. Now there’s a LOL.

if being negative means seeing things more clearly, then you should be a fortune teller. you should go to vegas and put some money down on texas getting to the final four.

ltl, don’t let Omar get under your skin. Most of us are interested in your (and, yes, hugh’s) opinions.

Omar, don’t forget cheerleading tryouts are coming soon, so whatever you do don’t be late. It’s nice to see some things never change….like Omar hating any opinions other than his own. Thanks BigGuy, I learned a long time ago that Omar is simply a big bag of wind that likes to hide behind a computer and call people negative for expressing their honest opinions. Forgive me for going against the gospel according to Omar.

i’m hiding behind a computer. at least you know my real name.

listen buddy, i don’t have a problem with your opinion. but is it continuously necessary to point out a teams flaws. every team has flaws. it isn’t a lot of fun to read your comments that criticize the team over and over again. once in a while is fine, but you never have anything positive to say. if you had children, then would you continuously point out their flaws.

the team isn’t perfect and i think most people realize that. but they are pretty darn good and deserve to be where they are right now. who knows what happens in march, but this team has a great chance to do some things that other pitt teams haven’t.

just because i disagree doesn’t mean i think you are an idiot. you have some good points. just try and mix in some positive with the negative once in a while.

good day.

It’s a shame some misconstrue being realistic for being negative. If coaches only viewed the strengths of their teams, the team would never improve. It seems to me that coach Dixon, as well as other top notch coaches, continually point out areas their teams need to improve. But if a fan does it, they’re critical and negative. I’ve never said Pitt isn’t a good team, but to say they’re a great team is yet to be seen. Again, coach Dixon in an interview last week, reserved the right to annoint this team his best, waiting until the smoke clears in March. Is he being negative? Futhermore, opinions are just that, opinions. Just because I agree or disagree with someone’s opinion, doesn’t make it any less valid. It an opinion!!! Just because I don’t think Wannamaker is star material, doesn’t mean I dislike the kid and think he doesn’t have a role on the team. But to think he will ever carry a team on his shoulders to a championship, isn’t realistic, in my opinion. Lastly, to bang on the ACC for having success throughout the years, is being unrealistic and downright jealous. The nice thing about basketball is it’s settled on the court and not in the polls. Hopefully, we are witnessing the greatest Pitt team of all times but only time will tell. That’s being realistic not negative!!! And by the way, I do have children, and I have pointed out their flaws when need be. And because of that fact, they’re both outstanding citizens with their egos and self-worth still intact.

I can confirm that Itl and I are not the same person, though that idea gave me a laugh, BigGuy.

But we would recognize each other at the bar after we simultaneously uttered the same negative, critical comment, right? 🙂

I’m glad Pitt hoops has devoted fans like Omar. We just have different ideas about what that fandom means and that’s fine……..room for all of us under the blue and gold tent. I believe, like Itl, that closely following a team also includes watching for its flaws and wanting it to improve.

And I do try to mix the positive and negative; Wanamaker is a perfect example. He really has improved this year and is contributing night in and night out. But calling him an above average athlete in the Big East seems excessive considering many of us were surprised when he dunked.

Let’s go out and beat the hoopies.

Let’s be “realistic” for a second. Pitt is ranked #4 in the polls after being #1 for two weeks. They are 17-1 with 2 wins vs. ranked opponents in 3 tries. They are 1-1 on the road against ranked teams. Pitt is the 3rd best team in the country based on Ken Pomeroy’s elegant statistical model. Pitt has the 3rd most efficient offense and 19th most efficient defense. Pitt has played the 25th most difficult schedule in the country and the most difficult schedule of any team ranked in the top-9 at kenpom.com. Pitt has one of the 20 best offensive players in the country in Sam Young (17th for players that use more than 28% of their teams possesions.) Pitt has the best offensive rebounder in the country and the 6th best defensive rebounder in Dejaun Blair. Pitt is the 5th best three point shooting team in the 18 team Big East with 2 players that shoot over 50% from distance. Pitt has a point guard with the 25th best assist rate in the country. Pitt has a player that has the 30th best steal rate in the country (Dejaun Blair) and another in the top-150 (Jermaine Dixon).

Now please tell me, “realistically”, why this isn’t a great team at this point in the season?

Also, Hugh, I truly appreciate the dialogue with other fans and can be negative as well sometimes. It just seems like some posters are always one way or the other. Maybe it seems like I am always positive, but it’s not true.

Omar, glad you appreciate the dialogue.

I don’t think there’s such a thing as a great basketball team in late January. There’s barely such thing as a good team, considering teams are only 5/6 games into their conf schedule. Let’s talk about Pitt after they’ve played more than one tough team on the road. (I’m not counting G-town, who only shows up at about half their games.)

By the way, I do think Pitt is a little better this year than in year’s past. It also helps that I don’t buy into all the BE hype this year. I think many teams were too highly ranked early in the season and that’s starting to correct itself. UConn and L-ville look like the best comp, but neither of them is really clicking yet and nobody else looks that threatening. The middle-of-the-pack teams (Prov, Cincy, Nova, ND, WVU) just don’t look capable of pulling many upsets over the top tier.

On a sidenote……..beware the land of KenPom and his “elegant” statistics and ratings. They’re all bunk. I do believe that there’s an application for statistical models in sports and would cite Bill James and baseball as an example………..but that’s true because baseball is a transaction-based individual-type sport that lends itself to statistical measurement.

Basketball is a much more free-flowing team game. Way too many dependencies and relationships to fit into efficiency models.

I’ll just let the season play out and see who wins the games.

Hugh I agree. We should let the season play out.

In fact, teams should just practice until March because that’s all that matters. All the statistics from games before the tournament are meaningless. And statistics are for math nerds anyway. Why should we let pesky “numbers”, “data”, “evidence” and math get in the way of a good argument? UCONN is one of the best teams ever even though none of the players on the roster have ever one a tournament game.

Pitt playing the toughest schedule amongst their peers doesn’t mean much. A month ago it was wait until conference season. Now it’s wait until we play the real tough teams (mind you we have already played three ranked teams, Louisvile included, with two being on the road). Oh wait, let’s just see how Pitt plays against UCONN.

won, not one in the second paragraph. my bad.

Omar, you’re one irritable man when you hear something you don’t like. Let it go man, it’s only a game, and if Pitt wins it all, you’re not going to be a penny richer. In defense of you Omar, I do believe you misconstrue my comments as negative, based on the fact, that we may be coming from two different backgrounds. Personally, I have been involved in coaching on the high school and college level most of my adult life. And often times to a fault, I might have a tendency to evaluate the team’s strengths and weaknesses, instead of simply rooting them on. But that’s just who I am, didn’t say I’m right or wrong, but that’s what I do, evaluate. You, on the other hand, appear to be a supporter and definitely a defender of the team. So, let’s simply agree to disagree and have fun on a web site design for various comments on the team. Hugh, it be great to drink a brew with you. After a few hours, we’d have all the woes of the Panthers sorted out. Omar, I don’t think you’d enjoy that barroom discussion.

Great post. I’m always down for a bar-room discussion! Like I said, I’m probably a little more critical then most of my posts let on.