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February 14, 2011

It’s an argument we have heard since the Big East expanded to 18 teams: Is the conference too big and too hard? When you see the rankings and the Big East has 7 teams in the top 17 spots in the AP poll, you know the conference is really good. So why is it a bad thing for the Big East to be the most challenging and providing great games, night in and night out?

Answer: The NCAA Tournament. As is the unfortunate side-effect of the NCAA Tournament’s popularity and casual fans not paying attention until about now, what the Big East does in the NCAA Tournament is at issue.

Jason King at Yahoo! ponders the issue, focusing on Pitt.

The Panthers will no doubt feel an overwhelming sense of satisfaction if they continue this pace and capture conference championship outright. A Big East regular-season trophy may not be as impressive as an NCAA championship.

But it’s close.

Or at least it should be.

“Look at all the teams in our league with rankings next to their names,” Panthers coach Jamie Dixon said. “Here, you’re facing the type of opponents that no one else is going to face any time during the year. Even in the NCAA tournament, you’re not going to face this many ranked teams.

“Our regular season is as tough as there is in America.”

And that’s the problem.

Eventually the mental and physical beatings it suffers each night will catch up with Pittsburgh the same way they have with other elite Big East squads of the past. Some teams wear down at the end of the conference season or in the league tournament at Madison Square Garden.

Other schools hit the wall during March Madness.

Look at the Big East this year. Only Pitt, ND and Louisville have avoided back-to-back losses or worse this year. Not because the teams are bad, but because there just are so many good, improving or tough outs. Providence, Rutgers and Seton Hall are in the lower, lower-half of the conference. But beating them at home is not a gimme.

All players have played through pain, and there isn’t a coach in the country that hasn’t spewed the “every conference game is a dogfight” cliche at some point in his career.

But in the Big East it actually holds true.

Unless it involves rebuilding DePaul, every league game is a physical and mental beating that leaves its participants drained. It’s simply not like that in other conferences.

Kansas, for instance, faces Texas once a year. But the Jayhawks also play a pair games against a Colorado squad it has defeated 43 of the last 44 times. Last week Kansas notched its 17th straight win against Nebraska before beating Iowa State for the 19th time in 21 meetings on Saturday.

In the Big East there are no easy games.

Pittsburgh leads the conference with an 11-1 record, but seven of its games have been decided by single digits. Meanwhile, when Big 12 leader Texas defeated Baylor 69-60 on Saturday, it marked the first time all season that the Longhorns failed to defeat a league foe by double figures.

Marquette, which is fighting for its NCAA Tournament bid, lost yesterday at Georgetown. Yet another loss on the road against a quality opponent. Cracked Sidewalks points out, though, that road teams rarely win against RPI top-25 opponents — unless it is Pitt.

The problem with that logic is that all of MUs road losses have been to teams in the RPI Top 25, and if you eliminate every team that has yet to win at an RPI Top 25 this year, then you are only left with a 24 team tournament. Here are the only teams to accomplish what MU failed to do today:

3 wins at RPI top 25 – Pitt
2 wins at RPI top 25 – Florida, Syracuse, Gtown
1 win at RPI top 25 – No. 1 Ohio State and 19 other teams
0 wins at RPI top 25 – Marquette and 320 other teams

Marquette is 3-0 on the road when not playing a top 25 team, so the “we just can’t win on the road” argument doesn’t work.

Marquette has other problems, but the biggest seems to be a conference schedule that put them on the road vs. Pitt, L-ville, ND, Nova, G-town and UConn this year. Yow.

Pitt on the other hand, with major road wins at WVU, Nova and Georgetown has impressed. Explaining it is a little trickier.

So what is it exactly that makes the Panthers so strong on the road?

“The fight in us,” senior guard Brad Wanamaker said. “I have to say the fight in the players We go on the road knowing we can win. Anytime you go on the road confident, knowing you can win, you have a good chance of winning the game.”

That confidence spawned a 15-2 run early in the second half that led to an 11-point lead after trailing by four at halftime. That confidence allowed the team to stay poised when the Wildcats cut the lead to three twice in the final three minutes. That confidence allowed the Panthers to triumph when the Wildcats had possession of the ball and had a chance to send the game to overtime.

The Panthers did it with tough defense, clutch shot-making and some timely free throws in the closing minutes. They held Villanova to 36 percent shooting and a variety of players made crucial plays in the second half to help the team win.

“We knew it was going to be tough,” junior forward Nasir Robinson said. “Every game on the road is going to be tough. We just try to come out and play Pitt basketball, execute more than them. We got the win. It was ugly, but we got the win.”

“We never showed any [nerves],” Wanamaker added. “We wanted to stay poised. Me, Gary [McGhee] and Gilbert [Brown] tried to keep our leadership up throughout the game. We had three tough turnovers when they cut the deficit, but we wanted to keep playing our basketball. We made some big shots and free throws down the stretch.

“It shows a lot of character and leadership. Myself, Gary and Gilbert, we’ve been trying to lead this team all year. We’ve been through some tough times, losing on the road. We know what it takes to win on the road. We try to preach that to the rest of the team.”

And here, I thought it might be something vague and cliched.

It seems that after this past week, more people are about ready to put Pitt down for winning the Big East regular season.

1. Pittsburgh caps the week with a win at Villanova, cementing status as class of the Big East.
With leading scorer Ashton Gibbs out for two weeks with an MCL injury prevailing wisdom had Jamie Dixon’s team dropping at least one of their two road games in his absence. West Virginia couldn’t do it on Monday and Villanova fell short Saturday night, and the two results cement the Panthers’ status as the class of the deep Big East. Maalik Wayns’ three pointer that would have tied the game was released after the buzzer, giving Pitt a 57-54 victory that seemed to be a return to the old days in the conference. The Wildcats certainly do have their share of tough players, but there were also some chippy moments that the toughest teams find a way to rise above and Pittsburgh was able to do that. Brad Wanamaker hit some big shots and led the Panthers with 21 points while Nasir Robinson added 15 and seven rebounds, and Pitt’s ability to get to the foul line (20-for-30) made up for another cold night from deep (1-for-10). That number will improve when Gibbs returns, making Pittsburgh an even tougher team to knock off come March.

Yes, the perimeter game. It does frustrate that Pitt’s 3s just haven’t gone in Gibbs’ absence.

Dixon isn’t fretting over the recent cold spell. He knows shooting percentages are always lower on the road and the team’s execution was good.

“If we had taken bad shots or guarded shots, than I would be concerned,” Dixon said. “But I have confidence. We are at the top of the conference in 3-point shooting. I’m not going to start getting worried about that.”

Pitt isn’t allowing 3-pointers, either. West Virginia and Villanova went a combined 7 for 32 from long distance.

“We knew when Ashton went down, some people had to step up,” said Brad Wanamaker, who scored a game-high 21 points against Villanova to give him 1,006 for his career. “When we say step up on this team, we mean go out and play your game, not try to fill Ashton’s shoes.”

Gibbs is conditioning hard while wearing a knee brace. He has told Dixon that he is ready to go and continues to harp on the Pitt trainers to clear him to play. After USF, Pitt plays at St. John’s on Saturday at Madison Square Garden, which would seem to be Gibbs’ target date to return.

And that is true. The 3-point shots taken, by and large, have been either wide-open looks or simply ones that we have seen the same players knock down most of the season. Not sure if it’s confidence, coincidence or something else. The defense of the 3-point shots by Pitt has been solid, so it hasn’t been nearly the crisis.

I think we were all wondering about Wanamaker and making his 3s. Oddly enough, he really hasn’t taken that many. He’s only taken 37 on the season. Granted he hasn’t made one since the Notre Dame game, but he only had 5 attempts over the past 4 games. Definitely didn’t force things in the past two games.

I’m admittedly part of the contingent that feels Wanamaker is Pitt’s best, and most important player. He’s the leading guy with assists (and has a 2.2 A/TO ratio), second leading scorer and third leading rebounder. He’s the guard that continually attacks on offense. Penetrating and getting to the basket, pulling up, or dishing off to someone else. Eric Hall is in agreement.

“They drive it more. Wanamaker, Brown drive it. (Nasir) Robinson drives it. They just attack the rim,” West Virginia coach Bob Huggins told reporters after the Panthers’ second-half comeback in Morgantown.

When Villanova forced a detour in the lanes Saturday thanks to Mouphtaou Yarou’s shot-blocking, Wanamaker turned to his mid-range jumper. And when the Panthers needed to break Villanova’s late momentum, Wanamaker drove anyway and willed a shot in.

Pitt’s offense isn’t as balanced without Gibbs, but it’s still efficient: the Panthers scored on 29 of their 55 possessions Saturday and scored more than a point per possession. That’s not as high as their usual output, but it’s still more than respectable.

They were actually under a point per poss. per KenPom, but the defense in the ‘Nova game was outstanding.





ChAS – as usual, a terrific report and incredibly well put together,linked and referenced. Just walked out of a long business meeting and if I could put my reports together like yours, I would no longer need meetings. Thanks for all you do…appreciate!!

Comment by Dan 72 02.14.11 @ 4:58 pm

Any thought to the argument that as our outside shooting has gone down without Gibbs, the perimeter defense has gotten a little better? I would say that our defense (and our composure) has won the last 2 games.

Comment by KeyboardKev 02.14.11 @ 5:22 pm

One thing good about the “grind” is that we face almost everything over the course of the season and learn how to deal with it. That could make us better in the NCAA tournament.

Comment by Howard 02.14.11 @ 5:57 pm

I sure wish Gilbert would have driven it more the other night. I am still very disturbed at all the open shots he clanged (1-7 and I think every one was a wide open shot)

Comment by wbb 02.14.11 @ 6:38 pm

Dan….spot on! I would go insane without this blog. You just can’t find the combination of Chas’ analysis, links and quality of posters anywhere else. Thank you to all. I’m going to raise my donation to Chas whenever he pitches us again… HTP!

Comment by FG 02.14.11 @ 7:41 pm

Agree with Howard, the grind is what can make teams better. I dont buy into the theory of teams wearing down because they have played too many tough games. They will have a minimum of 4 days off after big east tourney and from then on will play at most 2 games a week. I think all the great competition in big east should prepare them for any type of team, style, or situation that may find in the ncaa tourney. That has to be a good thing. 20 year olds playing for a national championship should have no problem being mentally 100% ready to go.
The question then of why hasnt Pitt or some other big east teams had much success in ncaa tourney. I think the answer is simple. They need to play against six really good teams to win it all. Just like the big east, not too many times has one team gone on a 6 -0 run through the conference.
My biggest concern for Pitt is for them to find ways to improve and not get stale. I’d like to think JD is still stressing showing individual improvement throughout the season as well as mixing in some new plays to work on.

Comment by Z-Boy 02.14.11 @ 9:53 pm

Seems to me somebody wrote something today about the propensity of a team to lose when they get ranked no. 1. Chas, help me out. Who was that chap?

Comment by BigGuy 02.14.11 @ 11:34 pm

Dan – forget about you putting together reports like Chas… the key is to get your staff to do it as well as he does and then you really wouldn’t need meetings.

Of course, then you’d have to deal with your staff drinking as much as Chas and your medical benefits premium would go sky high with all the rehab clinics you’d have to send your people to.

Comment by Reed 02.15.11 @ 4:48 am

Ha, Kansas goes down in flames.

Comment by steve 02.15.11 @ 7:24 am

I think too much is made about past NCAA tourney performance. A few of the teams overachieved in the regular season and were overseeded in the tournament (think last years team). The really good PITT teams over the past 10 years have lost in close games to legitimately good teams. In 2003, lost to Marquette led by Dwayne Wade who made the Final Four in the world. In 2004, lost to the higher seeded Ok. State who made the Final Four. 2007, lost to higher seeded UCLA who made the Final Four. 2009, lost to Nova who made the Final Four. All of the good teams lost close games except for in 2007. This is also why getting a 1 seed is important. Playing a 4 seed in the Sweet 16 is a lot easier than playing a 2 or 3 seed.

Also, I think the team is showing great improvement in defense without losing much in offense. A couple weeks ago Pitt was 1 in offense and 37 in defense efficiency. Now Pitt is 4 in offense and 19 in defense efficiency.

Comment by XBlackMagicX 02.15.11 @ 9:39 am

In his bracket projection out today, Andy Glocker at SI.com has the “fourth-best team in the country” as the number one overall seed in the NCAA Tournament. Which is another way of saying no one who ranks anything makes sense, so don’t ever pay attention ever to anything ever.

Oh, and way to show up last night, Jayhawks.

Comment by 85 02.15.11 @ 10:43 am

“Our perimeter defense has gotten better,” Pitt coach Jamie Dixon said Monday.

Hmmmm Jamie, why is that?

Some of us have hinted at the really sub par defensive play of Ashton Gibbs. But for me these last two games have really been an epiphany.

Looking back at the ND loss, Pitt’s inability to guard Hansbrough was the difference in the game. Gibbs couldn’t keep him out of the lane. Pitt had to switch on ball screens, primarily because Gibbs couldn’t/wouldn’t fight through them. Jamie was slow to adjust and put either Brad or Gil on him and Ben H. killed us. When Gibbs isn’t hitting his perimeter shots, he is a liability on the court.

So going forward how does Jamie deal with this? I can’t believe Gibbs, with a gimpy knee, will be any better on defense. Will Jamie cut his minutes? Will he play the match ups and play Gibbs when his defensive match up is favorable?

All along I’ve believed this year, more than any previous year, would be a referendum on Dixon’s coaching. Jamie has a ton of talent to work with, but it doesn’t perfectly fit. Gibbs is a perfect example, he is pretty much a one trick pony, granted that trick is a pretty good and important one. But his defense (or lack thereof) doesn’t fit with what Pitt likes to do. It creates some coaching challenges.

Jamie is, and always has been, more of a mechanic than an artist. He has a plan and he sticks to it. So far that has worked wonderfully well, especially in the regular season. He handled these last two games PERFECTLY. No one needs to step up, just do what you do and we do and we’ll be successful.

BUT……

One man’s definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results. The results in the Dixon/Howland era have been pretty consistent, over achieve in the regular season by playing more disciplined and tougher basketball than their opponents, then underachieving in the NCAA tournament based on expectations created by the regular season success.

Can Jamie, with all this talent, figure out a way to have this team playing its best basketball in late March? Can he creatively do something different to get this team to make a 4 game run to the final four? Or is this team good enough to make that run doing the “same old”? I don’t pretend to be smart enough to know the answer, but it will be fun to watch.

Let’s be clear, anything short of that 4 game run can’t be considered a success.

Comment by Boubacar Aw 02.15.11 @ 11:00 am

Kansas will still keep the 3 spot ahead of Pitt in the nincompoop polls because it was an in-state rival and their NBA prospects would STILL beat Pitt’s non-NBA going roster straight up without Ashton Gibbs, and … oh yeah, because Dixon hasn’t taken Pitt to the Final 4 since 1941 (did you know there only 8 teams in that field?) . . .

The more I think of it, I’m happier with Pitt at #4. Pitt can really prove it’s mettle on Sat against a very good St. Johns team on the road that would be a trap game for any highly ranked opponent. That would be a better reflection of their maturity and ability to handle pressure than holding onto the #1 spot for more than 5 minutes like the other better teams.

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 02.15.11 @ 11:03 am

I’m also with Jamie that a F4 appearance alone isn’t that big a deal. Anyone heard from George Mason lately? It’s exciting in the moment, but the real winners play for championships. . . EVERY YEAR

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 02.15.11 @ 11:06 am

Glad to see those D efficiency numbers come up. I believe no team has won title without being in top 15 of both in those efficiency ratings.

I also must point out, though I am sure others have (I was away at the game this weekend and missed some of Chas’ excellent stuff), that there are no words to describe just how awesome Gibbs’ suit was on Saturday.

Comment by Joe 02.15.11 @ 11:10 am

Hornman, agree that a F4 appearance alone isn’t a big deal, but in Pitt’s case THE LACK OF ONE is a big deal. Pitt should have made it two years ago. They need at least one to validate the TREMENDOUS regular season success and consistency over the last ten years. Oh and a national championship would nice too!

Comment by Boubacar Aw 02.15.11 @ 11:10 am

Boubacar Aw, I agree Gibbs is a conundrum. I think he is vital but has to play less minutes. Woodall is better with the starters because he doesn’t have to lead…when he comes off the bench he is put in a leadership role and can push too much. Woodall is by far a much better defender and rebounder and can push the fast break and attack the rim. I wish Dixon could flip the two without upsetting team chemistry but I’m not sure it would work. Gibbs as a sixth man and knock out punch would be killer.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 02.15.11 @ 11:42 am

Interesting theory on defense improving because of Ashton Gibbs being out. But also the past two games were more like those past PITT teams who couldn’t score enough in March. Without Gibbs the offense is not good enough to win in March. Ashton Gibbs needs to play and needs to play his normal amount of minutes.

Final Fours are nice, but really the level PITT has been for the last 10 years means that PITT needs to win the National Title in order to really validate the trememndous the regular season success. Like some people have said, random teams make the Final Four, a program like PITT needs to win titles.

Comment by XBlackMagicX 02.15.11 @ 11:50 am

Geez, let’s take a step back before we go pulling Gibbs’ scholarship or something. This team is better with him, and it’s not worth debating. Does Dixon need to maybe use him a little differently on the defensive end? Sometimes, yeah. But Ben Hansbrough, as punchable as his face may be, is a really good player, and Gibbs wouldn’t be the first guy to have trouble guarding him. And for every ND game there’s 2 or 3 games like Rutgers, where no one BUT Gibbs could score.

One thing that came out of the Nova game that was something of a revelation was how good Gil can be guarding smaller, quick guards. Corey Fisher was a total non-factor, and it’s something Dixon may use in situations like that later. We’ve got several guys that can guard multiple positions, and I think it’s something Dixon will use more to Pitt’s advantage going forward. But first things first, you’ve got to put the ball in the hoop, and Ashton is our best at doing that.

Comment by 85 02.15.11 @ 11:55 am

Why is Texas ranked ahead of PITT?
We have the better record
We play in a tougher conference, and
WE BEAT TEXAS!!!
ESPN keeps ignoring this whenever commenting on why Texas should be No. 1.
The win against Texas happened so early in the season, I think most sport commentators forgot

Comment by jumpingjohnnie 02.15.11 @ 11:55 am

No hate on Gibbs, he is just not a great athlete and can be exposed. He is a great player, competitor and winner. The teams that advance in the tourney more often than not rely on athletes. Those Final Four teams that beat Pitt the last few years all had better athletes than Pitt.

This year could be different. Pitt has athletes now but when you have Gibbs and McGee on the court, you have two athletically challenged players on the court that can be exposed. Sometimes determination doesn’t overcome that.

Pitt cannot go to the F4 or win a championship without Gibbs, but he can also be a liability at times. As someone mentioned earlier, you will not win a championship without a def eff in the top 15. Defense still wins championships and Dixon knows this. Keep the offense in the top 10 and increase def intensity and you will see a pretty special team come March.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 02.15.11 @ 12:15 pm

Agree with you xblackmagicx, and here is my main reason. The tourney is a crap shoot, one and done. If it was double elimination or teams had a little series, then, you could say, “what do they need to do?”.

Posted this before, and I’m sure there are many more examples than these two, but, several years ago, Syracuse was a lock to win it all, another year, Michigan State was an absolute sure thing to run the table. Guess what, Syracuse out in the 2nd round, Michigan St out in the 3rd round.

It would be great to get a Final Four, and even greater to win it all, but, IMHO, Pitt doesn’t need to do anything to validate their success. 10 tourneys in a row, consistent, constant top 15, top 10, top 5 rankings. 25 to 30 win seasons every year. Big time national wins every year, including out of conference, i.e. Memphis, Washington, Duke, Texas etc. etc.

Yes, I’m hoping to win it all, but, we are in basketball heaven with what Pitt has done.

What’d it take Boeheim, 20 some years to get a N.C.??? Very, very, hard thing to do.

Gonna happen again this year, 2nd or 3rd round you’ll be hearing, “Duke lost to who???”, “how in the world did Southern Sierra State beat Texas???”, “how in the world did Ohio State lose to them??”.

We are now known throughout the country as a constant basketball power, we’re on ESPN every other night, we are always being talked about, etc. etc., that lack of respect card was done years ago. Look at this year, some people are saying it’s a lack of respect because we stayed ranked 4th this week, and didn’t jump to #1 or at least to #2 or #3!!!!!

Think about that for a minute…..we’re upset because we didn’t move from #4 to #3 in the nation!!! There are 351 Div 1 hoop teams. Most are clawing and scratching to get to the tourney, most are relying on a conference tourney because they had such a horrible season, most would give their right arm to just get into the top 20, at least once!!!!!

Hope we get to the Final Four, hoping for a N.C., but, we’re in the stratosphere of college hoops, enjoy the ride while we’re on it!!!!

Comment by Dan 02.15.11 @ 12:25 pm

Not all of the better Pitt teams of the past decade were really poised to win it all. The 2008 team was the closest to a championship caliber squad. Most of the others were varying degrees of good to excellent, but built more for the rigors of the BE than the NCAA. The 08/09 & 10/11 squads both strike a better balance between athleticism and toughness. Some of the best teams of the early decade were mostly well coached, smart, disciplined and better at delivering beatdowns than matching athleticism.

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 02.15.11 @ 12:31 pm

XBlackMagic, I have long held the opinion that Jamie’s teams overachieve during the season and thus are a bit overseeded come NCAA time, and I too am not frustrated by their failing to reach the Final 4 … although I of course would love to see it.

Part of the reason for overachieving is that they always have more experienced players returing and thus have a much gradual learning curve. Of course, in the end, the superior talent seems to survive … but the talent pool for Pitt continues to improve so who knows!

Comment by wbb 02.15.11 @ 12:31 pm

Who’s got an ESPN Insider account? There’s a tease with Gottlieb’s post today about “Why Pitt always fails in the NCAAs”. I want to know if he’s still trying to pass off that bullshit about too many fouls being called, etc…..

Comment by SilverPanther in NYC 02.15.11 @ 12:46 pm

Yes he is, in addition to us not having any “pros”. His post wasn’t worth the time I took to read it.

Comment by Kevin 02.15.11 @ 12:55 pm

Hmmm…I can easily answer the question of what Dixon will do when Gibbs is healthy: He will start Gibbs, Wannamaker, Brown, McGhee, and Robinson…They will all play the same minutes they play now because that is easily our best line up. In fact, come tournament time, I’d expect all of their minutes to go up a small amount…All the talk of the impact of Gibb’s defense is pointless when its not balanced by looking at his contributions on offense. In other words, his “net” impact on the team is simply better than anyone off of our bench this year.

Comment by HbgFrank 02.15.11 @ 12:56 pm

Attended PITT from 82-84, and I read Pittblather dailey but rarely post…Not calling out names, but there are those on this site who think there’s a special formula for making a long run in the NCAA Torney, or that PITT teams are speifically built for the rigors of the Big East, it’s all nonsense….For those of you who think that PITT overachieves during the regular season only to fall short to superior talent come torney time, are hypocrites and fair weather fans!…Are you saying that cinderellas like Northern Iowa was better than Kansas, or Xaviar from the A-10 was superior than PITT, and I refuse to believe the garbarage that Tom Izzo builts his Michigan State teams for Torney Time. Senoir leadership, favorable match-ups, alot of luck and peaking at the right time is basically why a team could have long run, come torney time.

Comment by jumpingjohnnie 02.15.11 @ 1:10 pm

It’s foolish to say that Ashton Gibbs is “athletically challenged” You can be athletic and poor at defense at the same time. Regardless, Gibbs is crucial to this team making the Final Four. He is our best scorer and a great leader on the court. Every player on this team knows their role very well and for that reason, I feel that this team is special.

Comment by PatMac 02.15.11 @ 1:19 pm

jumpingjohnnie, I take exception your post. I believe that Pitt overachieves during the regular season but don’t see how that makes me a ‘fair-weather fan’ … in fact, if anything, it is the complete opposite.

I do thin the tourney is a crapshoot and many times you just happen to run into a hot team, but on the other hand, I believe lower seeded teams are often more talented than some of the higher seeds. For instance, just last year 6th seeded Xavier beat 3rd ranked Pitt … and I came away from the game thinking that Xavier was every bit as good as Pityt if not better. I do know that the two best payers on the court that day wore black uniforms!

Can anyone say Dwayne Wade??

Comment by wbb 02.15.11 @ 1:22 pm

Can you say Pacific? Can you say Bradley? Can you say Kent State? Those are closer to the point he’s making than Dwayne Wade.

Comment by SilverPanther in NYC 02.15.11 @ 1:30 pm

The polls are more evidence of media bias against Pitt, pure & simple. Kansas lasted less than 12 hours as #1 and got royally pasted by a very average K. State team.

I have said this before and I’ll say it again, if Syracuse, Uconn or Georgetown were 11-1 in the BigEast(with the way the BigEast has dominated the Top 25 and the Top 10 this year) and 23-2 overall they would have been voted #1, no doubt at all.

And I’ll say this again, if you don’t get respect at home, you’re not going to get it nationally.

Also there is something seriously wrong with these RPI ratings, there is NO WAY BYU & SDSU can have a higher RPI than Pitt. They have both ONLY played two ranked teams the WHOLE effn year. With one of those a game involving each other. If you look at these two teams schedules, they are loaded with like 80-90% cupcakes. All I can say about the RPI is, garbage in, garbage out.

Something is seriously amiss. And I find it absolutely amazing NOBODY in the entire effn sports media is writing or ranting about this.
Comment by melvinbennett 02.15.11 @ 1:28 pm

Comment by melvinbennett 02.15.11 @ 1:31 pm

@jumpingjohnnie

I think many of the commenters here probably attended Pitt at some point and even if they didn’t they’re all enttitled to their opinions. You really have no business calling out other fans for expressing these opinions anymore than you should be called out yours.

There is a lot of luck in March, but enough appearances increase the sample size and shift the results from luck to a pattern. As annoyed as I was for each March letdown, I get over it and ultimately appreciate the consistency and talent of the program and how they play the game the right way. My only real disappointment is for the players and coaches, who I think ARE capable of reaching the next level. There have been many great players at Pitt, like Knight, Page, Troutman, Young, Brown, Blair, Gray (to name a small few) who deserve respect and admiration for their commitment and accomplishments, even if they didn’t reach their ultimate goal. Pitt hoops is also lucky enough to have great fans. Let’s keep it classy.

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 02.15.11 @ 1:32 pm

PatMac, did you read what I wrote after I said he is athletically challenged. No doubt he is one of the most important pieces to puzzle, if not the most. He does have limitations though. There is not a sure fire formula for winning the tourney but there are common characteristics. I’m just saying it might make more sense to rotate him in differently. I don’t think Dixon will do it but that is my opinion. I love this team but I understand the criticism of it too.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 02.15.11 @ 1:39 pm

Bradley beat 2nd seeded Kansas the gane before beating Pitt. Kent St easily handled a higher seeded Alabama team the game before Pitt. In both cases, the hotter team won … yet during the season, Pitt was higher ranked than either of these teams … and FWIW, Pitt sent the same amount of players to the NBA as these teams did.

And I believe Pacific was an 8th seed and Pitt a 9th .. but if reversed, what does it matter?

Comment by wbb 02.15.11 @ 2:06 pm

Boubacar – gotta agree with you. It’s not a coincidence that our defense improves without Ashton. I don’t think he’s a gaping weak link or a terrible defensive liability. With him in it just seems we can’t be as tough. And while Gibbs isn’t exactly a slacker he’s also not the most aggressive defensive player either (which i’m kinda OK with since I think he’s just playing within his wheelhouse).
That being said, Woodall isn’t a shut down defender either — he’s fine — so somehow Pitt’s just adjusted in Gibbs’ absense. Maybe it’s just mental that Pitt’s is aware of what it misses on O when Gibbs is out so they focus on D. I dunno.

As for our outside shooting — i’m not worried about it either. Its all streaks and runs. I’m glad other guys are getting more chances to shoot so they can eventually find some consistency when Gibbs is back (esp Gil and Wanny, both of whom have had great shooting games and streaks of terrible ones).

Lastly, on the seeming BE under-performance in the tourny, i think its overstated. Yes, there is some over-achieving in the regular season followed by over-seeding in the tourny. But its not like the BE has flamed out consistently in the tourny – not any more than other conference. One thing that the BE does seem to let happen is letting down. BE teams play so tough all year, mentally its hard to maintain the urgency in the post season, as odd as that may sound. Its more about rhythm, being accustomed to a certain level and type of play then having to break out of that in the post season. I think it’s partially why (along with the pure strength/competitiveness of the conference) there has been almost every year a surprising team or two in the BE Championship game.

Comment by PantherP 02.15.11 @ 2:21 pm

There is no question that the team is better defensively with Woodall starting. However, the team is better offensively with Gibbs. Dixon has an opportunity to make changes based on how the game is being played. I do feel like Gibbs’ injury has revealed that the team is capable of playing well with Woodall. Perhaps Gibbs plays a little less and Woodall a little more. We’ll see. Not a bad problem to have.

Comment by Omar 02.15.11 @ 2:23 pm

Whoa jumpingjohnie, I am in no way a fair weather fan for saying that sometimes PITT overachieves in the regular season. Last year’s team had no business even making the tournament let alone being a 3 seed. From the 2009 team, PITT lost 2 NBA starters, a great senior PG and another very solid senior starter. But that just shows how good a coach Jamie Dixon is and how strong the program is.

I actually think the offense runs best when Woodall and Gibbs are in the game at the same time. This lets Woodall take care of the ball handling duties and lets Gibbs run off of screens and do what he does best, which is score. Woodall is much more of a natural point guard than Woodall.

Comment by XBlackMagicX 02.15.11 @ 2:44 pm

er Woodall is much more of a natural point guard than Gibbs

Comment by BlackMagic 02.15.11 @ 2:46 pm

Dang — I wanted to see Woodall v. Woodall 😉

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 02.15.11 @ 3:08 pm

In Yahoo’s Power Rankings of each position, Gibbs is actually listed as a Shooting Guard and Wannamaker is listed as a Point Guard.

link to collegebasketball.rivals.com

What’s amazing to me is Big G is ranked in the Top 25 of all Centers in America. Who would have dreamed that 2 years ago. Also G. Brown is in the Top 25 of Small Forwards. While Coach Dixon rolls in at #4 among Head Coaches. Alas no love for Nas from Yahoo, but we know how extremely valuable he truly is. But hey 4 positions out of 5 we have players ranked in the Top 25. So I ask why then do these dipshits like Bilas and Gottlieb keep saying we have sub-par talent. Some current student needs to Banana Cream Pie these creeps in the face the next time they appear at The Pete. Their 10 year old game notes and idiotic utterances and cliches about blue collar Pittsburgh are really start to annoy more. (more than ever)

Comment by melvinbennett 02.15.11 @ 3:22 pm

Good discussion. Great to have a team that is worth the debate. I think I have said before that every player on this team has a weakness or two, but the some of it’s parts are far greater than the individuals, thanks to coach Dixon.

Of course they play better defence without Gibbs, they have to in order to keep the games close.

I get tired of the Final Four debate, I know it won’t stop till we make it, but this has been a beautiful ride and it looks like it should continue. I agree with Dan and JumpingJohnie except for the name calling which is uncalled for.

If we don’t make the final four it will be disappointing but it won’t ruin another fantastic season. the talk show hosts make it sound like the end of the world if you don’t make the final four as if it is the only standard. If we go every year someday we will break on through to the other side. (apologies to J. Morrison)
Two to three years ago could anyone predict the prowess of McGhee, Wanamaker or Robinson. 11-1

Everyone remembers the effing guard from Villanova, but few remember that only Pitt’s Big three scored that day. Let’s hope the depth pays off this year.

I also agree with MelvinB The blue collar stuff ended in the 70’s and another thing, isn’t it time to drop the Howland from the DIXON ERA. I don’t remember it being the Majors/Sherrill era.

Hail to Pitt!

Comment by gc 02.15.11 @ 4:45 pm

Seth Davis ran a lame piece quoting some fictional but real composite of an NBA “scout” rating the top 56 prospective draftees — didn’t even mention Wannamaker, McGhee or Brown.

link to sportsillustrated.cnn.com

I think they’re at least worthy of entering the discussion, as much as mini-Psycho and a midget PAC-10 point guard. Then again, no Panthers even cracked SI Glockner’s “All Underappreciated Team” either

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 02.15.11 @ 5:09 pm

Don’t know why everyone gets riled up about the “blue collar” references. It’s simply their way of saying that the Pitt players work hard. They work hard on defense. They work hard to get good shots on offense. And, they work hard to become better and better players and teammates.
Heck, look at the conversation going on here about Gibbs’ defensive weaknesses. And, he works harder on his game than almost anyone on the team. Remember, last year’s BE MIP?

That’s also one reason I think Bilas said during the WVU game that Pitt won’t get the “elite” players. Most of those guys want to put in their one year and head to NBA dollars without having to work too hard. We all know Jamie won’t stand for that, so we’ll only get the rare “elite” kid like Dante and Birch who actually want to improve their games before moving on. Nice problem to have really.

So, try to take “blue collar” as the compliment it’s meant to be instead of thinking they mean Pittsburgh is still all steel mills and soot. They’re in the city enough to know that’s not true anymore.

Comment by TampaT 02.15.11 @ 5:14 pm

Have not read the blog in a few days, so someone may have mentioned it already, but after the game Jay Wright gave the game ball to Wannamaker.

Comment by Pwmcdupitt 02.15.11 @ 6:06 pm

Whoa…Didn’t mean to hit a nerve, and apoligize if I did….People in general are more sensitive and politically correct these days, I’m old-school, and probably need to think first before I speak…Anyway, regardless off competition I genuinely believe PITT, can match up and beat anyone, because of their style…Over the last two years the only team on schedule that makes me feel uneasy is ND, because they create matchup problems with their perimeter shooting…Tennessee created the same match-up problems with their perimeter shooting….Even last year’s team without Blair, Young, and Fields didn’t oeverachieve as some may say, they simply played PITT BBall and grinded it out…Every team we played last year also lost players to the draft or graduation, and I don’t buy that the guys we have on the bench that replaced Blair & Co, were less talented then the guys Syracuse had on the bench to replace their graduating seniors or guys that left early…One final thing, PITT does not need to make it to a final four to validate their success over the last 10 – 15yrs, that also is nonsense, stop listening to the talking heads on ESPN

Comment by jumpingjohnnie 02.15.11 @ 6:14 pm

The lack of respect card for the Steelers and Pitt basketball is really, really getting old. Listen to some other shows, go internet and try some other cities channels. Pitt is always talked about as a powerhouse in hoops, good God, get off it. If it’s a lack of respect, I’ll play the devils advocate, why isn’t Pitt ranked 19th or 21st right now??? Why are they on just about every friggin’ Monday night on nat tv.?? Saturday night, prime time national?? Please dear Lord, get over it. Friends and family all over the country whine about how much Pitt is on, how much Pitt gets talked about, how much Dixon gets talked about. Several national sportspeople have picked them to win it all over the past years.

Why isn’t Notre Dame ranked ahead of Pitt?????They beat us, maybe we shouldn’t be 4th, maybe ND should be.

As for the #1, how can you say no respect, the writers and the friggin’ coaches all put us at #1!!!! We lost, so we fell a few spots. That’s the way it’s worked since at least the 70’s that I know about.

It’s like Pittsburgh talks itself into this disrespect, that isn’t there. Even the city itself. People always defending the city, when you don’t have too. People across the country know about Pittsburgh being at the top of the most livable places like 7 out of the last 12 years. Everyone loves our skyline, loves the sports, the universities, hospitals, parks, rivers, etc. etc. yet, Pittsburghers immediately get into this defensive posture if there is a little comment made, or a small slight.

Hey, all I’m saying, you don’t have to get uptight about it. Most people feel Pitt is now a basketball power, most people know Pittsburgh and W.Pa. is a nice, and pretty cool place to live.

Let it go, free your mind, it’s ok!!!

Comment by Dan 02.15.11 @ 10:41 pm

p.s. One of the hottest teams in the country right now is Duke!! Kings of tv glutony and unneeded plugs from sportscasters, yet, they are ranked 5th. Pitt is ahead of Coach K., hmmmmmmm.

Comment by Dan 02.15.11 @ 10:43 pm

Although I’m not one to play to no respect card, it’s easy to see where people get it from. Whenever the talking heads (I refuse to use the word expert)are asked who is the best team in the nation PITT is usually never the answer while Texas is. Texas a team PITT beat on a neutral court, who has more losses than PITT and less quality wins. PITT has the most wins against the top 50 RPI. PITT also has the most road wins against the top 25 RPI. PITT also just won two tough road games without one of their top players. These stats are why a lot of bracketologists have PITT as the number 1 overall seed.

Comment by BlackMagic 02.15.11 @ 11:42 pm

This is a Pitt blog…if you want to read about ND being ranked ahead of us, read the ND blog. I’m sure it’s all there. Or the Duke blog.

Most people are perfectly happy with where Pitt is ranked and nationally perceived. A lot of us had to go through long stretches of awful Pitt athletics but a lot of us also only know the Pitt of the last decade. They have a different perspective of what Pitt is. To them, Pitt has been successful for 10 years and they want more respect. I think thats fair. To me, I cannot believe the heights Pitt has reached and I want to win a championship…but will also be very happy if Pitt makes annual appearances in the top 10 and a high seed in the tourney.

As someone who has moved away from Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh is still a blue collar town compared to other large cities. The industry has changed but the reputation will take a few generations to go away. Blue collar with a sports team will always be a good analogy. Thats just the way it is. Accept it. Any publicity is good publicity and I’m sure the Mayor and Governor are just fine with the way Pittsburgh is represented in the media.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 02.16.11 @ 8:58 am

Tossing Thabeets, you better go have another cup of coffee. You obviously just glanced over my post, without reading it at all.

All of the posts I have posted, have been about celebrating and enjoying Pitt hoops, and I don’t need a final four or national championship to validate it!!

My point, if you would have read the post, and not just glanced at the words Notre Dame and Duke, were to show that there is not a lack of respect for Pitt, had nothing to do with giving accolades to either program.

If some Pitt fans are mad because Pitt is ranked behind Texas, and Pitt beat them, then it would follow, that Notre Dame fans should be mad, because Pitt is ranked ahead of them, and Notre Dame beat Pitt.

As many say, and I agree, there is an over abundance and saturation for Duke, and Coach K., however, with everyone in the world loving Coach K., and fawning over him and Duke, Pitt is ranked higher. Sounds pretty respectful to me to be ranked ahead of them.

If you are a college basketball fan, anyone who follows, would tell you, Duke is hot right now, and playing very well. My point however, was that Pitt does get respect, they’re ranked above Duke.

As for the blue collar, I guess it depends on your demographic and what business or profession you are in. Yes, it will take generations for the “steel city” aura to go away, but, with most people I deal with, (And, I’ve lived in the SE and out West), most people know Pgh. as a hospital, technology and research center. Ya, they know of the steel mills, but, they’ve come here enough to know it’s a pretty vibrant city.

@xblackmagicx : point taken, I know what you mean. I can give a little on the Pitt beat Texas, I can see where some could get ticked, I just look at the overall picture, and I see Pitt getting lots of attention, publicity and kudos all the time.

Are we talked about as a program like North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky or UCLA, no, I guess not, but those programs took 50 years of tradition to get there. If some are looking for something like that, they may be sorely disappointed, constantly.

I guess I just have blind faith in Dixon and Pitt hoops, I really can’t find much fault with anything about the program.

And, with Birch, the Johnsons, Bond, Gilbert, Adams, etc. etc. incoming, I can only see the program being a top 5 team for the forseable future.

You know, might be a project, and this would deviate from Dixon’s past game planning, but, if we would land Bhullar, Pitt under the basket in a couple years, could be 6’11”, 7’4″, 7’0″!!!!!!

Comment by Dan 02.16.11 @ 10:16 am

Tonight’s game: Can you guys help? Can’t find it on ESPN family including Directv packages. I haven’t missed a dribble all year. Live 700 miles south of campus.

Comment by Old School Panther 02.16.11 @ 11:05 am

As I’ve said on several posts, you have to understand the context of all the Texas talk. It has nothing to do with head-to-head games way back in November. That would be like saying the same Pitt team that got beat by a bad Indiana team last year was the same team that ended up finishing 2nd in the BE.

It has to do with the most recent games, and Texas is playing the best ball in the country – right now. They beat Kansas on their home court and have been dominating on both ends of the court at home and away. That’s why they’re getting all the love, even over a very strong Ohio State team with only one loss at one of the toughest courts in the country.

Pitt on the other hand recently lost to Notre Dame at home and looked very suspect defending the high ball screen. Add to it that they have been playing without Gibbs, which raises offensive questions, and you have some issues on both sides of the ball. That’s why Pitt isn’t getting the love like Texas is, plain and simple.

However, Andy Katz said yesterday that even though he would likely vote Texas #1 this week, he wasn’t saying he’d pick them to win it all. He and other “experts” see Pitt getting the overall #1 seed in the Dance if Gibbs returns to form and Pitt wins the remaining BE conference games. That’s what everyone is waiting to see.

The tourney seeding means far more than any human polling that often is based on feelings rather than logic. Stop fretting over the polls. They are meaningless at this point.

Comment by TampaT 02.16.11 @ 11:24 am

Unless you’re in Pittsburgh, tonight’s game is only on ESPN3.com as far as I know, Old School Panther.

Comment by TampaT 02.16.11 @ 11:27 am

Good info TampaT. Also, just on 93.7 the fan, Vinnie and Cook had a New York hoop reporter, missed his name, Goldstein maybe???, just said, he clearly sees Ohio State and Pitt as the two best teams in the country!!

Comment by Dan 02.16.11 @ 11:45 am

A guy I play ball with on Tuesdays went to Kansas and we regularly chat about our respective teams. Last night we were chatting specifically about KU’s loss to K.State but starting looking ahead to the conference tourneys and NCAAs. I took a sort of hidden pleasure in listening to his insecurities about KU going forward- i.e. playing Texas again, the Morris brothers, and regional placement for NCAA games. We ended the conversation talking about both teams possibly getting a #1 seed and he was like “Man, I hope so. I just don’t want to be anywhere near you guys in the brackets.”….Ten minutes later I caught an accidental flying elbow from the guy and opened up a boxer’s gash above my eye. But that’s neither here, nor there…

Comment by SilverPanther in NYC 02.16.11 @ 11:54 am

Thank you.

Comment by Old School Panther 02.16.11 @ 11:59 am

SilPanNYC, those head and eye shots are tough, won’t quit bleeding!!

Comment by Dan 02.16.11 @ 12:15 pm

Dan, all I was trying to convey was that this being a Pitt blog, bias is going to be hard to come by and should not be exptected. I actually agreed with your post, I just disagreed with your expectations. One of the great things about watching Pitt play, is that their players always have a chip on their shoulders. The readers of this blog have a tendency to have that same chip. Thus, all the worries about media bias and generalizations about Pittsburgh being blue collar.

PS I did read it (albeit, on my small ass phone)

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 02.16.11 @ 2:22 pm

HA HA, good post Thabeet, I think I was the one that had “too much” coffee!!! Way too long of a post on my part, rough morning at work, that’s a good excuse, right?? LOL No problem, your posts are always very good!!! I was a little over sensitive!!! Gotta pound USF tonight, rough one in the afternoon Saturday!!

p.s. you know, I feel like everyone else, I want the Final Four and NC too, as much as anyone.

I think I normally don’t even think about it, then I read something, and I respond.

I understand the Texas/Pitt thing too, I feel the same way, just, after looking at polls for so long, just don’t think it’s a disrespect so much as, hey, when you lose, you drop a couple.

Hey, the NY reporter was the real deal, forget his name, but very positive Pitt.

No problem brother, we’re all on the same ship!!!
Hail to Pitt!!

Comment by Dan 02.16.11 @ 3:05 pm

Thabeet, glad we discussed, just went to you tube to get a reminder of Thabeet gets tossed from your moniker. Thaw was awesome!!! I kinda think leading up to that, or the Uconn game before, if I remember the announcers were kind of like, “ought oh, he has to go up against Thabeet this time” and that kinda set the tone!!

Comment by Dan 02.16.11 @ 3:12 pm

And, I couldn’t resist…. link to youtube.com

Comment by Dan 02.16.11 @ 3:17 pm

The play of the century…in my eyes!

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 02.16.11 @ 4:24 pm

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