Two days ago the Des Moines Register published an article about Big Ten commish Jim Delany talking about possible expansion from 11 to 12 teams (link via USA Today). Since then it’s been a strong point of discussion on TV, in newspapers, and on blogs.
The expansion talks come with the upcoming release of the Big Ten Network. The network, which is scheduled to launch Aug. 30, could use another big-name university in a large television market to gain more exposure for the network and its sponsors.
So who could be that extra team? Obviously the first team that the conference will give significant attention to will be Notre Dame, but it’s more than likely that ND will quickly turn down the offer. A national TV deal, the ability to schedule whoever they want, and the fact that they can take the Big East’s bowl bids. As long as the Big East is getting a BCS bid then ND will gladly take it. Might as well cross the Irish off of the list of possibilities right now.
Then next tier of possible teams include Syracuse and Rutgers. Syracuse first: they allow the conference’s reach to extend to upstate New York. It’s a decent media market but wouldn’t get the attention of NYC residents. Plus they’re primarily a hoops school and the Big East, while not one of the top two or three football conferences, is one of the best for basketball.
What about Rutgers? They might feel as though if they add Rutgers they will gain a hold on New York City, the #1 US market, but that’s hardly true. Piscataway is over 40 miles from NYC and even after the RU football team has picked up a ton of hype, the NYC market barely notices. NYC is a pro sports town dominated by the Yankees, Mets, Knicks, and both NFL teams — not much room left for a college team, located a half hour away no less, to get attention.
The last tier of possibilities likely includes the following teams: Louisville, Missouri, your Pittsburgh Panthers, and maybe a handful of others. Louisville is a program that as a whole is on the rise…but they’re TV market isn’t all that appealing. It’s no secret that Missouri wants to join the Big Ten and adding them opens up the state of Missouri including possibly St. Louis. But what about Pitt? Well, what are the current B10 members saying about Pitt? One of the best college football bloggers (Brian Cook) on one of the best CFB blogs (MGoBlog) has this to say about the Panthers:
PROs: Geographic and academic fit. Also provides natural rival for Penn State. Football program has rich history; basketball program would be a fine addition.
CONs: Michigan and OSU are already raiding the hell out of the WPIAL. Adding Pitt opens no new recruiting grounds and only marginally raises interest in the Pittsburgh market. Their football fanbase would be amongst the worst in the conference.
Verdict: I guess. I would rather take a chance on Rutgers, personally.
Black Shoe Diaries has this to say…
2. Pitt – This isn’t the smartest choice for the Big Ten, but then this is my wish list. For all the crap I give Pitt around here, I want to see this rivalry played every year. Everyone does. Adding Pitt makes that happen.
But this doesn’t jive with Delany’s wish to expand the market for his new network. If it’s true he has an eye on the New York market, Pitt isn’t going to work.
Basically it comes down to this — the pros vs. the cons. We’re here in Pennsylvania, so we’re close enough for consideration. We have a long traditional rivalry going with PSU. As Brian says, we have a football program with a strong history and I don’t think things are going to be much worse than last season — things can really only go up. Our basketball team has been one of the best in the nation over the last 5 years and it doesn’t look like it’s going backwards any time soon. Pitt is also more than a two sport school. Many of our other sports are doing well, including a women’s hoops team on the rise. We have great facilities for football, basketball, and swimming, and with the planned renovations, the “Olympic sports” will have upgraded facilities as well.
That’s the good stuff…so what about the bad? Firstly, adding us doesn’t exactly open up a whole new market. Whether we like it or not, there’s a large contingent of Penn State folks here in Pittsburgh, so the Big Ten already has a portion of the city’s attention. We’re not in a recruiting area that hasn’t already been tapped into by Big Ten teams like they might get from a team like Missouri.
So what are the actual chances that we’d ever get seriously considered/invited? If I had to guess, I’d say the list looks like so (remember this is not who the B10 WANT, but the chance of it actually HAPPENING):
1. Rutgers
2. Missouri
3. Pitt
MGoBlog has the same three but instead has Pitt at #2 and Mizzou at #3. Black Shoe Diaries has Pitt at #2.
Say next year we do, in fact, have an offer extended to us. What’s our answer? Do we stay put in the Big East or take it? Personally I don’t know what I want us to do. Maybe we’ll just have to wait and cross that bridge when it comes, but the fact that we’re even in the consideration is interesting enough.
Whats amazing for all the shit the big ten wants to talk on the big east, here they are, trying to raid it. If your goddamn league *is* the endall of college sports you wouldn’t even be looking to expand. What a joke, as usual.
If by some random act of god they invite us I hope we have the sense to turn it down. What do we get out of it except to play PSU every year? We have a good basketball and football league and have as many, if not more bowl opportunities than anyone else out there. Especially bball – I don’t want to give up playing Uconn, GU, SU, Marq, and Louisville to get what in return? A game against OSU? In football we already have 3 of the best 10 teams in the country to play – any way you look at it – polls, rpi, win/loss, whatever. All we’ll gain is some “cred” from all the big-ten bandwagon fans who think its the greatest conference ever because its got so many massive schools.
I’m sure our administration will jump all over it though because they’ll think its great to play Michigan, OSU and PSU every year. They’ll bail on the big east faster than Miami and Vtech. And how’d that work out for them anyways?
The list of guys the “scouts” totally missed on has hundreds of names on it…i’m pretty sure rankings are more of a “hype meter” than a “skill meter” anyways…
Take Mizzu since they want in and I can see them in the Big Ten. As Stuart said above, if PITT got an invite then there is a chance we take off. I also believe it’s a mistake and hope they see what happened to the three schools that left. I mean what loyalty is there in Boston College for example? their football coach left for another ACC school(NC ST)…what a jerk. Talk about Backstabber U. Let’s stay on and be loyal to the conference we chose…and if it dies then we go from there. I don’t see the BE going anywhere though as it has shown that they are strong and can last through the bad shit.
Or it’s another noisy ploy to get ND to join up.
All that said, if I were Nordenberg I’d be like Tom Bradley right now, sending 100 love letters to Delaney and the other B10 honchos each day begging for an invite. I hate the Big East, especially the football, but even the bloated basketball conference. I also think if expansion did start happening, whether the BE is directly raided, the chain of events would inevitably result in the loss of someone. Problem is, unless the B10, Pitt is not a fit anywhere else (ACC, SEC, etc.). We’d be left in the dust, in a worst situation because the crap conference of 2007 would be the even-crappier conference of 2008/9/10 whatever (RU or SU gone to the BE, maybe WVU gone to the SEC, etc.). What would Tranghese do then? Not much. Make Villanova jump to D-1 in football, or take UMass and do the same, or take in ECU or UCF. *Gag* At that point I’d prefer Pitt to join C-USA … and they might as well, because that kind of scenario would also sound the death knell to the BE’s BCS bid in the next go-around (2011 or 12?).
But enough hand-wringing. As mentioned above, I think it’s all based on a charade.
Eff the Big10. PSU hates the fact they joined the big 10. Tell me Two benefits PSU got from joining the big 10. One the rose bowl but nothing else. Their program will also be the step sister. They will never be mentioned in the same sentence as the big two (OSU and Mich).
So, if PSU did not get any benefits what would PITT get… NOTHING.
Stay in the BIG EAST. Stick to your word and pledge. Look at BC. They jumped at something they should have never jumped at and look at them now. They will be begging to join the BIG EAST in the next couple of years.
PSU should join the BIg East. They dont belong in the Big 10 nor does Pitt, SU or Rutgers
what I’m getting at is there are lot’s of alternatives….other than joining the Big 10…
As much as I don’t like the way PSU thinks, them in the BE makes a bit of sense. I’m not sure if they would go for it though because I have no idea what Paterno thinks and dreams about. It’s obvious the man has evil powers…the glasses must have controlling properties. A grudge would have to die in order for that to happen. I’m down with Maryland, the state is rich with talent and it helps our recruiting. Screw BC, have fun being mediocre…I’ll be rooting for NC State when they play, though they play in Chestnut Hill I believe.
Since we’re having fun pretending the BE is planning on expansion, here are my picks hehe:
1. Maryland(good call, Marco)
2. Marshall- They have their own movie(hehe) and WVU wouldn’t mind.
3. Manhattan(basketball only of course). Jamie Dixon vs Barry Rohrssen could be good for television. Take that Big Ten, we have the NY market!(not really)
Probably not the three most logical choices but its 3 AM and I’m sober.
I would join the Big 11 in a heartbeat. Maybe we are a basketball school at the moment, but the second PITT can put a quality product on the field, we go back to being a football school. I would much rather face PSU every year and UM and OSU every other year than the schedule we have now. I would much rather lose to those big boys than WVU and UL. PITT is a football school and PGH is a football town. The BE is JV compared to the Big 10 and everybody knows it. Quit taking the “we won’t stoop to PSU’s level” attitude and man up and admit how much more you would enjoy football season as part of the Big 10. (Check their b-ball conference. It isnt too shabby anymore)
i know you wouldn’t have buy one get one free ticket packages any more! it would also help us recruit (more tv)no more wed nite games.
My Wish list for 12 team league….what do you think folks:
Look to Add…(remember we only need 4 teams)…oh yea my order is in who I would like to see and who I think would help the BE the most by being added:
1.) PSU (all sports)
2.) ND (all sports)
3.) Maryland (all sports)
4.) Memphis (all sports)
5.) Navy (all sports)
6.) University of Central Florida (all sports)
7.) FSU (all sports)
8.) East Carolina (football only)
and / or request certain teams to go D1 in all sports from within the Big East..such as:
1.) Georgetown (go D1 football or get out of BE)
2.) Villanova (go D1 football or get out of BE)
Possibly drop these schools to balance the BE:
1.) Marquette
2.) DePaul
3.) Seton Hall
4.) Providence
BE FOOTBALL TRUE WISH LIST:
North:
1.) Pitt
2.) PSU (possible pick up)
3.) UConn
4.) Syracuse
5.) Rutgers
6.) ND / Maryland / Navy / Villanova /
Georgetown / BC (Pick one, if two slot a second school in the southern division)
South:
1.) West Virginia
2.) Lousiville
3.) South Florida
4.) Cincinnati
5.) Memphis / UCF / East Carolina / FSU (pick one)
6.) Memphis / UCF / East Carolina / FSU (Pick One)
BE BASKETBALL…we stick with 16 teams, but with some changes..
1.) Pitt
2.) Uconn
3.) Syracuse
4.) Rutgers
5.) WVU
6.) South Florida
7.) Cincinnati
8.) Louisville
9.) Villanova
10.) Georgetown
11.) ND / Navy / Maryland / BC (pick one)
12.) Memphis / UCF / FSU (pick one)
13.) PSU
14.) OPEN…one additional new school (pick from above)
15.) Providence / Seton Hall / Marquette / DePaul / or kick out these 4 and have only 14 basketball schools.
16.) Providence / Seton Hall / Marquette / DePaul
(see #15)
What do you folks think?
I’ve defended the Big East in the past but I believe the NCAA is on the verge of another major conference shakeup and the ACC/BE restructuring from a few years ago may just be the first of the few dominoes to fall. The BE is probably the one conference least likely to survive a shakeup. Why?
These decisions are largely driven by dollars – typically television revenues. The BE is the smallest of all the BCS conferences, essentially not much different than the WAC or MWC with the exception of the television markets in which each conference exists. The BE exists in an Eastern-based TV market, and many of the individual schools exist in individual markets larger than those of their WAC, MWC and C-USA counterparts. That makes them attractive targets for any of the larger, more prestigious power conferences looking to expand and add an additional larger market to their fold.
The conference title games have become solid extra moneymakers for many of these conferences, and even though the ACC’s hasn’t quite worked as well as initially planned, it’s too early in the process to say they shouldn’t have done it. Once some of those programs come back around, they’ll be fine. If the Big Ten decides it wants a title game, they’ll take steps to get it.
The Big Ten is more established, more prestigious and has been that way long enough to know that it’s not going to change. The Big Ten has better bowl tie-ins. The Big Ten teams aren’t in danger of losing their second-best bowl tie-in to any slightly above average ND team. The Big Ten matchups would produce better games and more at-home interest and all the games would be played on Saturday mornings and afternoons. I’d much rather see Northwestern and Indiana come to Heinz Field than Cincy and UConn. As geeman said, I’ll go to the games anyway, but I’d love to see them play some bigger-name opponents so the intrigue level in the games gets ratcheted up a bit.
So maybe Pitt would get pounded by OSU or Michigan every once in a while. As someone said, it sounds a lot better than getting pounded by Louisville and WVU year in and year out.
At the Big East is something different. We have a chance to dominate the conference in football when Wanny finally gets 4 or 5 years of recruits. We’d be an odd city school in a conference of boring, midwestern college towns.
But, I think the smaller conferences will continue to pressure with litigation threats and will get more representation in future years. So it goes back to the horrible schedules we have to endure with the BE right now. B10 is boring? OK, maybe Indiana and Minnesota aren’t thrilling. But have you seen our schedules in coming years? Other than ND?
I’ll be the first to say I think the Big 10 is a better football conference than the Big East, but this is not to say the Big East isn’t improving. UL and WVU are very good teams, and Rutgers and USF are coming around. I’m hesitant to call RU a “superpower,” judging by the fact that they’ve had one good and one mediocre season in the past two years, preceded by a bunch of losing seasons, but Schiano is a good coach and will improve them ’til he bolts. That said, is it prudent for Pitt to stick around in a less-respected conference where they’re middle-of-the-pack? Wouldn’t it be better to join the Big 10, take your lumps, gain national exposure and gain credibility that way? Not to mention you’d get your game against PSU every year, which (judging from some of the comments) it seems you guys kinda want just a little bit. What’s the downside?
In my opinion, it’s easier to go undefeated in the Big East than to go nearly undefeated with one loss in the Big 10.
The Big 10 has two perennial powerhouses in Michigan and Ohio State and two other Top 10 candidates many years in Penn State and Wisconsin. Plus, throw in the solid teams they have – Michigan State, Iowa, and Purdue.
And I won’t even mention Indiana, usually a doormat, who went 5-7 this past year in a tougher conference than Pitt, who went 6-6 in the Big East. Not saying IU is a better program than Pitt – just stating the obvious.
On an yearly basis, I don’t think there’s anyone that could reasonably argue that a combination of Louisville/WVU/Rutgers could really match up with Ohio State, Michigan and PSU/Wisconsin. Not talking about last year alone, but a year to year basis.
It would be very difficult for Pitt to go 10-2 or even 11-3 in the Big 10 – at least in the near future. They’d have virtually no chance to play for a National Championship, or even a BCS Bowl. But after seeing what Louisville and WVU did last year – winning the games they should and try to beat each other in the conference, it’s not as difficult to envision Pitt doing the same in a year where everything bounced their way.
There’s no reason Pitt can’t compete for a BCS Bowl every year in the Big East. In the Big Ten, they’d have a hard time doing that even once in a while.
Hell, I live in Philly and retain some measure of respect and loyalty to the BE. But, as indicated by Eric R and geeman, the commish is rarely in a position to do anything but react — I’m not convinced Tranghese and his lieutenants possess the mental apparatus (or intellectual might btw) to operationalize the key concepts belonging to “proactive” movement(s) and behavior(s).
All things considered, whereas bball-only schools will cont. to flourish in the BE, the same cannot be said for the remainder who place equal emphasis and interest in their football programs.
It’s in this latter point that makes the Big 10 attractive — it has much less to do with “loyalty,” regardless of whether “the BE is on the rise,” or not.
So long as Pitt-PSU is renewed without having to absorb Paterno’s 2-for-1 bitch-slap, BE be damned. (No more taking it up the a** from the mouse network, either.)
______
Marco, I dig the “BE FOOTBALL TRUE WISH LIST,†but insofar as the North is concerned, PSU ain’t budging till Paterno dies and I’m in a bit more of a hurry to bring lion-cub faithful back to earth. Further, in your #6 slot (North), BC has made its bed and will hopefully be made to sleep in it for a while. Also, should be noted that Villanova does not have the facilities to entice but a handful of D1 talent; there’s a reason why they opted out and into D2 in the 80s. As for Georgetown…that’s sorta like entertaining the idea that pigs can fly. However, ND / Maryland / Navy — any one of these schools — would be a welcome addition. Last, in the South, Memphis is the only true consideration, and they too would be a welcome addition. As for the likes of UCF and East Carolina, there’s nothing to like. And if FSU decides they want to make a move, it’d naturally head south v. north to SEC. Ever consider Wake as a potential full member (fb/bball).
Why do you and others above think that it is Pitt’s “choice” to join the Big 10? It’s not, and they will never be asked willingly by the Big 10. That’s not to say that once the expansion process is put in motion, things can’t happen that were not intended (as stated in a previous post above no school in the ACC wanted VT, they were forced on the ACC by the politicians). As your commish has stated, this expansion is about TV revenue. Adding Pitt does zero for Big 10 TV. As far as the level of play in the Big East goes, at what point does reality change your perception. There will be three BE teams in the Top 15 to start the season (RU, LVille, and WVU), and a fourth on the verge of the Top 25 (So. Fla). Pitt, while not there yet, will be improved and more competitive this season. Cinci is picked ahead of Pitt in the BE this season. Longevity? With the exception of Cinci (whose recruiting I am not that familiar with), all of the above schools have had solid recruiting classes for several years. It does not appear that their level of play will be dropping off any time soon. So WVU and Lville are pumped up because they play in an easy conference? Why then was the BE 5 – 0 in bowl games; and, for all of last season 37 – 8 in non con games, including 14 – 7 against the other 5 BCS conferences (best in the nation accoring to the PPG)? That is the reality of the situation. This year, with improved play from Pitt, Cinci and SoFla, combined with the expected success of RU, Lville and WVU, the perceptions may begin to follow reality.
It’s a better b-ball conference, more of our traditional rivals are still in the BE, and it is a lot easier to get to a BCS bowl in an 8 team league than an 11 or 12 team league. Plus, the bowl money is only split 8 ways, not 11 or 12.
My only caveat: staying in the Big East might be a bad thing if the Big11 raids one of the other schools (and doesn’t get Missouri, Nebraska or ISU). And it will only be a bad thing if the BE loses its BCS status.
That said, I’m not convinced this Big11 expansion is going to happen.
The only reason to expand to 12 is the championship game, which most of the Big11 schools will oppose; especially the only two that actually matter: OSU and Michigan. There is no pressing need to expand, network or no network. Why water down their product just to get a team they don’t need?
Of all the schools on the list, the only one that “fits” into the Big11 mindset/superego is Pitt (research, large state school, academic quality, sports tradition). Every other school being mentioned is ranked lower, some far lower, than Pitt in terms of academics.
Sure, Syracuse is in NY state, and Rutgers is in the NYC media market, but no one in that market gives a damn about those football teams; they care about Notre Dame, the Giants and the Jets. All this talk of TV revenue coming from NYC is baloney, and their number crunchers will figure that out.
BE analysis:
Cincy: OSU gets them Ohio now, mediocre academics & research, zero football tradition
WVU: small state, poor state; abismal academics; decent sports tradition at best, much of it achieved with criminals who don’t fit the Big11 image (if you get my drift…)
Louisville: not much of a football tradition, nor is there much of a football following for them even in Kentucky, where they are the #2 school in a state that loves b-ball; academics worse than Cincy, not as bad as WVU;
Syracuse: small private school; no research, mediocre academics; small tv market, despite limited following in NYC; decent football tradition at best
Rutgers: since that first game v. Princeton, terrible football tradition; decent academics; lots of alumni who don’t give a damn; in NYC media market, yet no one there cares
UConn: zero football tradition, limited fan support; academics are ok, but not a research inst.;
USF: huh?
The way I see it, none of the Big East schools are acceptable to stand among Minnesota, Iowa and Indiana (gag! cough!). Only if the football prophet decended from the mountains and commanded that the Big11 expand would they add a BE team other than Pitt – and Pittsburgh is already in the Big11 territory via PSU, so it’s almost redundant.
And if they do expand, it will be to the west (Nebraska, ISU or Missouri) – and really, none of those schools measure up to their high-fallutin’ standards anyway.
I’m a Big Ten guy and have to completely disagree with this. If the Big Ten expands with someone anyone other than Notre Dame (the obvious first choice), it will 110% look to the east – probably either Syracuse (my preference) or Rutgers. Logistically, the chances that any of the Big 12, ACC, or SEC teams would move are extremely slim – there isn’t as much upside financially for any of them to move to another conference while any divorce resulting from that would make the Big East/ACC mess from a few years ago look like a nice mutual parting. Therefore, if the Big Ten is serious about looking for someone other than Notre Dame, it will absolutely be looking at one of the Big East teams. Plus, it makes sense from a market penetration standpoint by giving Penn State an eastern partner – as opposed to having just a token presence in the east, the Big Ten would instantly be a dominant force in the northeastern region of the country (I know this being a Big East board there will be disagreement with this, but just take a look at the geographic distribution of Big East football if either Syracuse or Rutgers leaves – it looks a whole lot more like a mid-southern league with a couple of token northern teams than the East Coast league that it used to be).
I like Pitt on paper, but any move would be all about expanding markets, so with Penn State already in the conference, adding Pitt would be very unlikely. Geography is the big negative for Pitt in its chances for the Big Ten (as opposed to the positive that some people claim – i.e. “it’s already within the Big Ten’s boundaries”).
I don’t mean to be negative-sounding as a visitor here, but you should definitely know that the alternatives to Notre Dame for the Big Ten will definitely be coming from the Big East, particularly the northeastern teams that could at least lay some claim to the NYC area, as opposed to anyone west of the current Big Ten. We’re not in the business of raiding anyone (prior to the Big Ten adding Penn State, the last time that the Big Ten expanded was with Michigan State in the 1940s before the ACC was even created), but we’re also going to make the move that’s going to bring back the most value and highest impact. That pretty much means going after the East Coast markets.
“On an yearly basis, I don’t think there’s anyone that could reasonably argue that a combination of Louisville/WVU/Rutgers could really match up with Ohio State, Michigan and PSU/Wisconsin. Not talking about last year alone, but a year to year basis.”
“I don’t think anyone from the SEC has a shot at beating either of the great and almighty Michigan or OSU…they should replay their game to decide the real national championship…”
If i have to hear one more big ten bandwagon bitch spew off about how great their program is i’m going to be fucking sick. Just like everyone *knew* that osu was going to *destroy* florida, no one knows if wvu, louisville, or rutgers would beat the big ten teams or not. The big ten hype bandwagon needs to stop repeating the same stupid arguments over and over, just inserting the names of new teams into the slot of “who’d they beat if they did play.”
The big ten is the all hype conference. That’s it. They have a large fan base that the media caters to in order to increase their ratings.
Teams are scared to play Louisville. Thats a fact – they can’t get people to sign up to play them.
I know the 5-0 in the bowl games weren’t against the best 5 teams in the nation. The big east doesn’t get the hype yet that the big ten gets, therefore they are told to play worse teams. If the all-hype conferences weren’t more interested in having the largest viewing audience instead of having the best game or the best teams playing each other, maybe we’d have settled this “how good is the big east” question already. This is what we can all agree on: the big east wins the games they play, the teams that are willing to schedule them and show up, or the teams they are told to play.
When you take an OBJECTIVE ranking like RPI, 3 big east teams are in the top 10. Don’t see that about the all-hype 11 conference. Unless you look at the “popularity polls” – then you’ll see 3 big ten teams.
How about all these big conference bandwagon schools start worrying about win-loss records and what happens on the field to determine who is the better team/conference? Instead of making excuses all day?
You want to prove your better than the big east? Sign up some big east teams to your non-con – I promise you Louisville isn’t ducking you, nor is WVU, nor Rutgers – and i know Pitt has a standing offer against at least one big ten team i can think of. You people all want to bitch that BEast teams don’t have a hard non-conference…its not that they are ducking the all hype conferences. Its because the all hype conferences are scared to be exposed, and are only worried about one thing at the end of the game – the attendence gate count. Its like Pitt-PSU – PSU has nothing to gain. Same as the big ten – they have nothing to gain – right now they get “default” credibility, and they only stand to lose it. Why would the risk finding the truth? Afraid the bandwagon fans will jump ship? Not be able to fill your coffers with their money?
If my school was in a all hype conference I wouldn’t want to play those games either – I’d prefer my “if we did play we would” arguements over the internet instead of settling this on the field.
But we all know football isn’t about on the field records – its a popularity contest – look at notre dame, osu, michigan, usc and florida for examples.
That shithole across that state signs up 3 terrible teams and then talks about that 1 over-hyped team as the reason…oh, and “how great their conference is.” Unless we play these games between the conferences, we have no basis for judgement of who’s better.
As far as i can tell, the win loss records are the only numbers speaking right now, and they say the big east is at the top.
Wanna dispute that? I have an idea: play some fucking games against us. Teams in the big east aren’t like penn state – they don’t want to play shitty teams all the time. They just don’t have a choice until fans from the over-hyped conference ask for the games.
They won’t get ND, NOBODY will get ND until people stop watching their games on NBC, thus causing NBC to not renew their contract.
That said, if Pitt were offered the chance, sad to say that we’d have to go. Besides, we might be able to rule at B-ball in the Big 10!!
That said, there are only 2 “great” teams in the Big East, WVU and UL. They both choked last year against inferior competition, whereas OSU took care of business all year long, and Michigan did until the last game. Moreover, UW had a great year, and PSU continued their success. Iowa is traditionally strong with a great coach, and Purdue and Minny are usually pretty good. Also, there are some teams on the rise, although Indiana is probably in for a rough year after Coach Hoeppner’s tragic passing. But the most IMPORTANT thing for a team like Pitt (if they were to get invited) would be that there would be more asses in the seats with these teams. There would be more exposure. They wouldn’t have to give their tickets away. Yeah, Pitt would take their lumps, but it’s not like they’re lighting it up in the BE. What’s so great about being a “big fish in a little pond” when you could be contending for championships. Oh, and not to mention those games against PSU. Makes sense to me.
Now as for conference vs conference, you’re right, there’s no way of knowing who’s better. I believe it’s the Big 10, you believe it’s the Big East. We could compare bowl victories, but what does that mean? The Big East was favored to win all 5 of their games, and they did. The Big 10 was expected (going with the odds) to go 3-4. They went 2-5, beating some quality SEC teams in the process. So who knows? Yes, I’d LOVE to see the teams play each other, a la the Big 10/ACC challenge in bball. It’s just not going to happen, and it’d be nice if you’d stop placing the blame solely on the Big 10 schools. Thank you.
First you don’t understand what I said about Rutgers and PSU, so I’ll write it out more simply for you:
What I said about that shithole was “lets not kid anymore about PSU being an ‘elite program.’ How many elite programs have had losing seasons 4 out of the last 7 (while that terrible Pitt program has had 1)?”
I never said Rutgers was an “elite” or “great” program. Can you read? Are you really that slow? What I said above was “just like everyone *knew* that osu was going to *destroy* florida, no one knows if wvu, louisville, or rutgers would beat the big ten teams or not.”
Where do you get “great program” out of that? Some retard said everyone *knows* that the top 3 of the Hype 11 would beat the top 3 of the Beast LAST YEAR. The Hype 11 always *knows* who they’re going to beat, just ask Florida. They just don’t want to play the games. For all we know the BE top 3 could sweep the Hype 11 top 3. On the scoreboard that is, not number of bandwagon fans.
Which leads to your second dose of stupidity. Where did I say *anything* of preseason rankings? If you could read, I actually insulted human polls altogether. I said look at last years RPI based on THE RECORDS and THE GAMES ON THE FIELD, the only objective way I know of.
And then you jump right on the hype bandwagon and tell us how great the hype 11 is and how the BE is only 2 deep. Just ignore the fact that there’s no basis for comparison because the 2 conferences don’t play at all. Just tell me what all the Hype 11 fans say. Instead of settling this on the field, you guys keep settling it in the media and online. Just worry that last day of the year when you actually have to play another conference and you guys get your asses handed to you – again. When the Hype 11 has a winning record in bowl games against other conferences, then come tell us how good it is. Our conference plays the games they give us on the field and wins. We don’t pick the games, we just show up to the ones given to us.
The funny part is you don’t realize how embarassing it is for your conference when you have to use vegas odds to determine how good you are. “Hey – we beat the spread!” You guys keep telling yourself that.
Maybe after a while your conference will get tired of being beat by the “inferior” SEC and turn to another “inferior” conference and we’ll find out who really is the better.
“Pitt would take their lumps…” There you go again, the big ten conference argument of choice… “If we did play….” You have no idea how it’d work out this year or any year after. I got us with 1 loss to the big ten in the last few years. Too bad PSU wasn’t playing us, or I think our record would be a little better. But I guess we’ll never know because the Hype 11 doesn’t want to play the games on the field, just in the media and on the internet.
Please don’t even try to respond again if this is above your head (which it clearly is).
So if Rutgers isn’t elite, then I guess the Big East isn’t too strong, is it? A top-loaded conference where the best teams still can’t beat the ones below them? Where is the cream rising to the top? Each one of those teams had the power to win the conference and they choked. If the pressure of Thursday night got to them, I can only imagine (imagining and presuming, oh the horror!! Oh wait, that’s ALL you do with the PSU apartment fight…) what would’ve happened with a truly marquee game.
Now, onto RPI. Are you kidding me? You must not follow CBB too much if you think the RPI is a meaningful measuring stick. Right, and the MVC is a top bball conference, because the RPI says so. Ooooookay…
To the human polls. You see Stuart, humans can tell you something that computers can’t. For example, if it weren’t for humans saying “Wait, the WAC isn’t that great a conference” then Boise State could be considered the best team in the country. Kind of like how the same humans “hype up” the “inferior Big 10” and give it praise it doesn’t deserve…according to you.
Now, about how “we” settle it. Dude, do you work in an athletic department? I’m guessing not. So basically you’re taking ONE example, in that PSU doesn’t want to play Pitt, and extrapolating it to EVERY Big 10 and Big East team. Yup, it’s all the Big 10’s fault that these guys don’t play, and you, of course, know this for a FACT. There are those crazy presumptions, once again. I guess it’s okay and not hypocritical at all for you to make them, though.
When did I say we “beat the spread?” Good job mischaracterizing my arguments and putting words in my mouth. No, you see in any game, one team is favored to win while another is expected to lose. In the Big East’s bowl games, they were all expected to win. Hey, that’s great. For the Big 10, only 3 teams were expected to win, and 2 did. That’s not such a great dropoff is all I’m saying. Comprendes?
“Inferior SEC?” Okay man, I don’t know what to tell you. I wasn’t aware there was something wrong with beating 2 of the top teams from the consensus “best conference.” Where was I derrogatory to the SEC? Yeah, I’m getting tired of them being force fed to me (much like the BE), but that’s life.
Yeah, Pitt would take their lumps. You see Stuart, Pitt got shelved by MSU, who was one of the worst teams in our league. But I guess I’m going to take a leap of faith and assume they would beat the majority of the better Big 10 teams. Not unless your starting QB was Hopes and your RB was Dreams. Yes, it’s too bad we didn’t play you guys, but oh well. I’m not going to get bent into a pretzel about it like you, because I don’t need that game to validate my team.
Please don’t respond to this, because well…I waste too much of my day on here replying to you.
I enjoy the Big East (I’m also a DePaul law alum), but the notion that the Big Ten, ACC, or any other conference has some type of fiduciary duty or obligation to keep the Big East intact in its present form is completely false. Conferences that had a lot more history and support than the Big East, such as the old SWC, have been eradicated and people have moved on, so a couple of months of bad PR certainly won’t stop anyone (whether it’s a conference or the individual schools) from making moves if they want to. If the Big East wants to survive, it needs to look inward to make the conference as strong as possible where none of its members would ever logically consider leaving, as opposed to just trying to appeal to pure emotional ties of “conference unity”. Emotional ties will only get you so far – you need to show long-term strength in the form of competitiveness on the field and money in the pocketbook. Until those fundamentals are completely secure (once again, for the LONG-TERM, not just one good football season), the Big East will always be at risk of losing its strongest members.
NOTE: I’ve always thought that a bi-coastal hybrid of the Big East and the Mountain West would be a great idea competitively and financially. I know people will scoff at the geography, but let’s face it, with as far west as the Big East has already gone, you might as well add some legit BCS-worthy teams such as BYU, TCU, and Utah. They would certainly strengthen any conference a lot more than South Florida (or the East Carolinas of the world). In an ESPN world, geographic limitations are pointless, which is why the Big Ten wants to become much more than a midwestern conference and the ACC wanted to become much more than a southern conference. That’s the new paradigm.
Um, what? Bro, first off, if you were a true Big East or Pitt fan, my name alone would show you that I’m not a Big Ten fan.
Second, I’m one of the few people that thinks the Big Ten is OVERRATED. I was also one of the few people that saw a ton of SEC games and actually thought Florida would BEAT OSU last year.
But how on earth could you possibly compare the track record of the Big Ten against that of the Big East? As I made sure to point out, over a year-in year-out basis, I don’t think you can reasonably argue that WVU/Louisville/Rutgers are as good or have been as good as OSU/Michigan/and PSU/Wisconsin. Could that change? Sure. But I need to see proof of that. Not a couple of good years.
I agree the Big Ten might be overrated. But to write them off as all hype is ludicrous. That’s simply not knowing the facts.
Also, you mentioned Louisville and the fact no one wants to play them. I agree – last year I think they were one of the top teams in the NCAA. But again, I’m talking about a long-term situation. When Louisville starts rattling off 10-win seasons for three of four more years, then let me know.
Lastly, as far as the numbers speaking for themselves – that is a completely laughable point. I don’t have the records in front of me, but I guarantee if you take the records of OSU/Michigan and PSU/Wisconsin over the last five years and match it up with ANY three of the Big East’s current teams, it wouldn’t be pretty.
A. Lousiville is a joke as far as academics. They will get voted down by the schools of the big ten.
B. This move is over the next five years. Rutgers had one good year. Do you really see them as a powerhouse.
C. The Big East is not going to add any new teams unless it drops some, which wont happen in the near future.
D. PSU will NEVER leave the Big Ten for the Big East as long as Joe Paterno lives, and most likely never after that. PSU does not care one bit about basketball, and the big east is not a power football conference.
E. WVU will never be in the talks to join the big ten. because they arent smart enough to count to ten (or eleven) and they care more about beating pitt then anything else.
No one is moving to the big ten anytime soon, because there is no rational team for them to take. If ( a big if) rutgers stays strong in football they will go.
to be honest i dont want to see pitt leave. Every conference has a way of balancing itself out. If wanny can get his recruits to start putting out on the field we have the potential to be the face of the big east. (WVU is benefiting from this right now) That means we could easily become a national powerhouse.
Moving into the big ten means our team will most likely get better, but will always have to get past ohio state and michigan, and that isnt an easy task.
The big east may not be as good, but it gives a weaker team the opportunity to step up and make something for itself.
Forget PSU. they forgot about us. no use in going out of our way to play them if they choose temple over us.
“On an yearly basis, I don’t think there’s anyone that could reasonably argue that a combination of Louisville/WVU/Rutgers could really match up with Ohio State, Michigan and PSU/Wisconsin. Not talking about last year alone, but a year to year basis.”
To me this reads as a future prediction of results. For all anyone of us know the top 3 of the BE could sweep the top 3 of the 11, or the other way around. I don’t care who “should” win or who “we think is better” – I just want to know how it turns out at the end of the year. These arguments of “better” conference are retarded.
Lets play games at the end of the year to determine who’s better. That’ll settle it…oh, wait, we already do, and all people do is make excuses.
No one knows for sure how the games of the past would have turned out. If everyone wants to agree that the top of the big ten is better than the top of the big east, fine, let us also agree Pitt would have beaten PSU the majority of the last 7 years. I’m down with that.
I’m still tired of hearing all this “big ten” nonsense – especially when they go and get exposed in bowl games – they can’t even win all the games they’re supposed to. Sounds like an overrated conference to me.
I am not saying they are “terrible” or “not good” even – I’m saying no one really knows how good any conference is in comparison to each other. All we know is what teams are better than other teams they have played. I’m tired of popularity and hype deciding college football.
How big east teams played against each other doesn’t mean crap when it comes to if the BE is better than the hype 11. I’m sure I can site 1000 examples of conference games going opposite to the predicted outcome – even florida has a loss last year, ucla v usc, etc. Actually, didn’t this *exact* same thing happen to USC last year that happened to lu, wvu, and rutgers? Don’t hear anyone dogging them? All in all, this means nothing of what would happen in a top 3 BE vs top 3 hype 11 challenge.
I’m saying the RPI is the only objective measuring stick out there. You can’t disprove that. And boise st ended 8th in the rpi. And imagine this – it picked Florida as number 1! Just based on the records! Its a complicated formula that involves multiplication, I don’t expect you to understand how it works. I’m sure you’d love to keep using polls because the populartiy of the big 10 works in your favor – we almost had a joke of a natl championship game last year because of all the hype.
“Beat the spread” was a joke making a mockery of “we almost won the games we were supposed to.” Keeping making an ass of yourself of with this stupidity….”almost won the games we were favored in…” Nevermind that you went 2-5.
No one has any idea how Pitt would do for the next 5 years in the Big Ten. I’d guess not as bad as PSU did the last 7 in the hype 11. But its all speculation and moot anyways.
I’ll wait to see how the games go this year before I crown the hype 11 better than anybody. I’ll look at the records at the end of the year and use those to decide, instead of making excuses why our conference lost a lot while the “crappy” conference won more often.
The best part is I’m not saying the BE is a better conference than the hype 11. Meanwhile, you *are* saying the hype 11 is better, even though you have no reasons, and better yet, any evidence that does exist points out that this is true. All you can cite is “popularity.” Oh, and that you almost won as many bowl games as predicted, even though you weren’t even predicted to win half of them. You have nothing but a bunch of bandwagon fans. I’ll keep looking at the records and results at the end of the year.
As for the RPI…we’ll have to agree to disagree here. I think it’s GREAT for when you’re making a field of 64 teams who all have the same opportunity to win it all. It’s much different in a non-playoff structure. However, even though the polls aren’t always completely accurate (I personally think they shouldn’t have them til at least midway through the season), look at these facts:
Last year OSU started at #1 and ended #2. Two years ago, USC was #1 and Texas was #2. They played for the NC.
I still don’t understand why you’re mocking our bowl record. No one was mocking us two years ago when we won TWO BCS games. You’re also conveniently leaving out the fact that we beat two more SEC teams than the Big East did. But I guess I should be ashamed of losing the games we were supposed to because the rest of the nation says I should be. My bad.
How would Pitt doin the Big 10? My guess is not that great. I think you might be the only guy on here who thinks contrary. But that’s okay, because you’re right that it’s just speculation. However when said speculation is based off of those “actual game results” you keep talking about, such as “MSU 38, Pitt 23,” my version of speculation seems to make a little more sense.
But you’re right, we’ll need to see how it all plays out this year. It looks like WVU and UL will be solid again, although I think RU will take a step back. I’m looking for the Big 10 to come back strong, with really only OSU looking worse on paper. And yes, I do think the Big 10 is better, but not based on “popularity.” I could tell you the difference between the Big 10’s losses last year and the BE’s, but insteand I’ll just hang my hat on the fact that my team won their bowl game, and yours would have played in one if they WERE in the “overrated” Big 10.
“No one has any idea how Pitt would do for the next 5 years in the Big Ten. I’d guess not as bad as PSU did the last 7 in the hype 11. But its all speculation and moot anyways.”
I don’t know what that has to do with last years results in the MSU game. If we’re going by past years results, PSU would NEVER beat us again considering they couldn’t even score a single point against us last time we played. I’m tired of typing over and over again simple things which you just cannot grasp. What don’t you understand when I say something about “the future” isn’t the same thing as saying something about the “past”? Are you really that dense?
The second USC was talked about for the national championship they lost – yet you allow them a “rebuilding” year as opposed to BE teams. It was still the team they put on the field, why don’t you slam them too?
Two years ago everyone is sure that Georgia would drill WVU. How’d that work out?
Your “guesses” mean nothing. Save them for the hype 11 people.
I’m glad you prefer hype and opinions to facts. You’re better off that way. You fit in the hype 11 well.
If you want to stop talking about conferences and start talking about teams we each root for, thats fine too.
12-0. Talk shit when you beat us this millenium.
Now you see Stuart, as mentioned before, games such as last years most certainly have everything to do with games in the near future. See if you can stay with me for this: players on last year’s team will *gasp* still be around on this year’s team. Conversely, players from the year 2000 won’t be. So wait, am I saying that a team who either lost key players or returned key players might have a dropoff/something of build from THIS YEAR? Holy shit, that’s incredible. But no, it has nothing to do with last year. Of course, you try to have your cake and eat it too by bringing up our “past 7 years,” but at this point I won’t indulge you. After all, you’re always right.
USC replaced Leinart, Bush and White, amongst others. When you replace your best players, it’s what’s known as a rebuilding year. When you royally exceed expectations, it’s a good year (kinda like OSU’s, but I digress). But no, their situation was the exact same as teams such as WVU and UL who were returning their best players. And I’m dense.
I actually thought WVU would win, and they did. Hmm, that’s still one less win than the Big 10 had that year.
Seriously though, this Hype 11 shit is getting old. Maybe you should pick up a CFB preview magazine. Not only would you possibly learn something about CFB (knowledge of which you are sorely lacking), but you would see a picture of Ray Rice (you might have heard of him?) on EVERY SINGLE COVER…literally. But no, it’s the Big 10 who’s being hyped up.
12-0. Grow up dude. It’s really sad that that’s all you have to hang on to, not to mention you’re doing that crazy, unheard of thing known as “grasping at the past.” Well in that case, talk shit when the all-time record swings to your favor.
Seriously dude, I try to be nice but it’s hard. You’re just an idiot who’s obviously lacking something in life…in addition to brain cells. Your CFB knowledge is disproportionate to the shit you talk, and I’m pretty sure everyone on here knows it. I’m surprised I didn’t see you at the Simpson’s Movie, because you’re the biggest Homer I know. The Big Least is still crap and would get crushed by the Big 10 in a head to head, and deep down you’re just happy these games don’t happen, as the results would slap you and your logic in the mouth.
There are two good football team in the Big East….WVU and Louisville. I can name 3 other conferences that they would not be first in. The Big East is a joke in football. Rutgers had 1 good season and Louisville in 5 other conferences doesn’t reach 3rd. I can understand the “loyalty” issue with the Big East but the conference sucks overall in football, (which is the schools $ maker by the way). The teams that left the Big East aren’t doing good because they came from a crap conference to begin with. It’s easy to be better than average when your conference sucks.
If you don’t think for a minute that Mich or OSU could win this conference every 9 out of 10 years you need your heads examined. Why don’t you want real competition? Sure there are cake teams in the B10 but there’s no Cincinatti or South Florida.
The B10 Conference is one of the 3 premiere conferences in the Nation, not wanting to be a part of it is lunacy.
Pitt rebounded from their home loss against A&M a few years back with a win on the road against A&M the following year, so lets hope that Pitt and Syr can do the same this year (I assume Syr and Iowa play again this year). Nothing less can get rid of the superiority complex. If that happens, we probably won’t see the Hype 11 fans that don’t have a life reading this site anymore for the rest of the season.
If the BE takes those games, the teams remain in the bottom half of their conferences, then one or two top BE and Hype 11 teams play each other in the bowls result in BE wins, then this debate is OVER!
Game on….
My nephew just corrected me and remind me that Syracuse beat Illinois, and UConn beat Indiana last year. According to the Hype 11 fans, they would say that the BE’s “cupcakes” are wayyyyy worse than the Hype 11’s “cupcakes.”
But the BE/Hype 11 “Cupcake Challenge” resulted in a 2-2 record. That’s .500 for the State Penn students reading this.
What would happen if two upper tier teams played? Well, I look to the bowl game that pitted the BE champ vs. the SEC champ two years ago. If WVU could beat Georgia IN Georgia two years ago, logic says that they could win against OSU, Michigan and/or Wisconsin on a nuetral site. They, and Louisville, are THAT good. They’re new to the scene, but they’re fast and powerful and THAT good.
I know that the BE had a much better bowl record last year than the Hype 11. But a good team like Rutgers should never have played K-State, and it’s hard to count Cincy’s win. But it’s not the BE’s fault that the conference was underestimated and given inferior competition in some ways.
Common sense says that, except for the Hype 11 having more teams than the BE, you have to call call our football conferences “EVEN.” 🙂
The bottom line is, right or wrong, the B10 is what it is. It’s the darling of the NCAA. For Pitt fans not to want to be in the B10 is absolutely insane. Type all you want about Pitt beating MSU and the B10 fans will shut up, bla, bla, bla. The fact remains that MSU isn’t a top 5 or 6 team in the B10 this year. So to say that Pitt and MSU are evenly matched isn’t saying much. As for the people worried about the B10 raiding PA for talent, well that’s not going to end. Again, most will leave in a minute to go to Mich or OSU, are you kidding me? Again, it’s all about exposure and the BE at this point doesn’t even come close in overall talent, face time or longevity. Tell me this, when is the last time a team left the B10? Umm, I don’t know either. If the Conference sucks soooo bad than why are schools wanting to get in and nobody wanting to get out. Meanwhile, teams are leaving the BE like it had the plague. B10 this, Hype 11 that, bla, bla, bla, the fact remains that the BE has football penis envy when it comes to the B10. Wollow in mediocrity if you want but if the B10 comes calling and Pitt doesn’t go…..the school and the fans who supported the non move get the crappy conference and mediocrity they deserve.
As for your “year after year” point, I don’t know what the top two teams in the BE will do against the top two or three teams in the B10 “year after year” over the long haul. But there’s reason to be optimistic, isn’t there…? Other than the two year skid after the “raid”, the BE continues to surprise me. I see no reason for it to stop. Recruiting will only improve after these last two seasons.
The top 3 BE teams, except for the two years after the BE shake-up, have been very good since, say, 98, when VT played for the National Championship. OSU didn’t exactly blow out Miami in the National Championship in 03, for example, if you’re talking head to head. I know they have a very good chance at beating top B10 teams. That’s no insult. UL and WVU and Rut are, um, good teams right now shall we say (all finishing in the Top 12 last year)?
Yes, the B10 has the history and tradition and stability, and B10 fans always rightfully so point that out. But if you go 2-2 against the BE, what does that mean? I’m talking about winning games NOW. I’m talking current head to head, APPLES TO APPLES (not OSU vs. Cincy) contests (to address your basically irrelevant and misleading “4-8 stat”). How seriously would YOU take it if WV or UL or Rut whipped NW? Right now, the conferences look somewhat even. This year, the BE cupcakes just MAY clean the B10’s cupcakes clocks, or at least play .500 ball with them. Gasp! Right here, right now, that’s all that matters. If you want history and tradition, play Harvard or Army. If you want total respect from this “lower” conference, ANY team in the B10 HAS TO BEAT SYRACUSE AND UCONN at the very least to even BEGIN to get total unconditional respect from this fan.
If you seriously think that one of the top rung teams in the BE would place higher than maybe 3rd (and that could be a stretch), in the B10 than there’s nothing I can say to you.
I will say this, more than likely within 7-10 years the BE won’t even exist. Also I would guess that the conference is going to have a BCS status problem in the next 3-4 years.
The 4-8 stat isn’t misleading at all. OSU was the only top rung team that only played in two of those games, all the rest were played by Ind, Ill Iowa and NW. It’s not like OSU, MICH and WISC were playing UCONN and USF. The only reason OSU played CINCI is becouse of the interstate rivalry. If it wasn’t for that do you seriousy think they would even schedule a big east team? LOL Come on!
MICH tried to schedule WVU two or three years ago. WVU said no. Why you ask? Why would they, why have a loss on their schedule when they play in the BE and have a chance to go undefeated. Further up in the blog somewhere somebody was spouting off about the B10 not scheduling BE teams, it’s not easy actually. I mean, would you want a loss plying Mich or OSU at their stadiums, (which would bring the opposing schools a ton of $), or would you rather play A conference USA team and guarantee yourself a win? Hmmm, again playing in the BE if you are a descent team you have a chance to go undefeated or have a 1 loss season.
Look if you want to think that the BE is in the same caliber as the B10 than O.K. The reality is, even though the conference is getting better, I guess, they still are a lower rung BCS conference. Infact let’s look at that, and these are in no particular order by the way:
SEC
ACC
PAC10
BIG 10
BIG 12
You get my point. The BE isn’t exactly the elite of the nation. The point of this blog was to get an opinion about Pitt joining the B10. That being said, if you don’t think Pitt would ultimately be a better team playing in the B10 with the exposure, the competition and the recruiting possibilities that it will bring, there really is no hope for Pitt fans.
Ofcourse the big east is not up to the level of the big ten.. it isnt because of the cupcake teams, but it is because of the top teams in it. WVU is the face of the big east right now and they dont compare to Ohio State. Louisville is second and they are no Michigan. Rutgers is most likely third and they dont compare to Wisc. USF is most likely fourth this year and they arent comparible to The Big Tens fourth best team. ( This year they might be)
The bottom half of the big ten is a joke. That is why it doesnt touch the SEC.
The Big East is going to struggle. They just lost their two top teams to the ACC, and another quality team.
But to compare Indiana to Uconn is a joke. They both suck. Same with Minnesota, NW, Illinois, Iowa, MSU. The Big ten is top heavy, and pathetic at the bottom. It is the same way for all their sports. Basketball always has a few really tough teams and the bottom is pathetic.
ANYONE THAT SAYS THE BIG EAST IS COMPARIBLE TO THE BIG TEN IS DUMB…. (Right now)
My argument is that conferences always have a way of balancing themselves out. (especially a BCS conference)
The in ten years if the conference stays how it is the big east will be better than the big ten some years and worse other years.
Pitt would be dumb to join the big ten, because they would likely get burried right now.
They need to stay big east and take a chance at becoming the face of the big east.
That is why PSU will never go anywhere. they are a pretty big joke in the big ten. They dont have the ability to top ohio state or michigan. They get outrecruited in their own backyards by both teams.
Well right now Pitt has a much easier path to be a conference champ and going to BCS bowls. Recruits want to play in these bowls. WVU, Louisville, and USF ( i say USF because they are a team on the rise because of their location) are all teams Pitt can over come. Pitt has more history than all these teams too.
So you enjoy your time on the top. Because we dont need to join the Big Ten to compete for third or fourth place.
We are trying to put a team together in a weaker conference that has the potential to become the conference champ.
Pitt – 9 Nat’l Champs
down the list a LONG WAY
PSU – 2 Nat’l Champs
Did you read the posts before that or just mine? Doesn’t sound like it.I was answering things from other posts.
I know the BE isn’t really comparable to the B10. From the posts BE fans don’t know that though.
Yes you can compare UCONN to IND or ILL. They all suck just the same.
All I’m saying is that the B10 would be a good thing for Pitt and not a bad thing. There exposure alone would skyrocket and their recruiting would probably go up in quality.
As for the BE having all these bowl games well woop tee doo. Seriously, How many do they play Dec31 through Jan 4-5? Playing bowl game at the start of bowl week isn’t a good thing. LOL (and you say i’m an idiot….yea O.K.)
Stay in the BE and wollow in mediocrity skippy. When a couple more temas leave maybe you cen recruit Memphis or East Carolina. LOL At that point those will be BE caliber.
Anyway, the BE had a higher percentage of their teams in the top 12 than did the Hype 11 I believe. I call that “quality before quantity.”
If what you said was true, then all “weak” conferences would have teams in the top 12. Where are the 3 top 12 teams from the Mountain West, Conf. USA and the MAC each (besides that it’s mathematically impossible)? I’m not getting your points.
Let’s use the NFL to respectfully shoot down another point of yours. Pundits don’t think that the AFC is better than the NFC because of Indy’s victory over the NFC’s 5-11 Redskins last year, and other similar victories by the AFC’s best. It’s mostly because of the Super Bowl victories And yes, because of head to head competition too to a point because the competition is evenly spread. But mainly because of the top teams playing the top teams. Apples to apples. You’re comparing apples to oranges by comparing the OSU-Cincy (and equivalent) games. You wouldn’t feel the same way if Illinois was getting beat up by Louisville every year to pad the BE’s record. I’m not getting your points.
You’re talking to the wrong people about BE teams not scheduling Hype 11 teams. State Penn will not schedule Pitt, Pitt has scheluled Iowa and MSU (ALL of which were pretty good when these were scheduled, including a generally Top 25 Pitt), and WVU wasn’t that good a couple of years ago when you say Mich. tried to schedule them. I’m not getting your points.
I’m glad that we had a good conversation. The Pitt Blather is only the second time that I’ve ever written to a blog. But you’re nowhere near convincing me that the Hype 11 is, game for game, on a different level from the BE in even, head to head competition. The apples to apples facts just aren’t there. The lower tiers are as even as it could be. No more Temples here anymore. And if WVU can beat Georgia IN Georgia two years back, not to mention last years win in a hostile environment against an albeit weak ACC Champ, then I HAVE to assume that WVU could beat Mich or Osu 50% of the time, especially at home or in a bowl. The facts don’t allow me to believe otherwise. Unless you’re saying that Georgia was trash, I again don’t get your point.
I assume the lower tier will play .500 again this year. Let’s hope that the BE will have a good bowl or two against the Hype 11 this year to see where everybody’s at this year for sure. Get my point?
Good talkin’ to ya.
I in no way was comparing OSU to Cinci. They accounted for two of the vistories, that’s all. The only reason OSU scheduled those games was becouse of the interstate rivalry. If not, you can bet they wouldn’t have been scheduled.
Do you really think that the level of competition is the same or close to it? Let me put it this way, Wisc could win the BE 8 out of 10 years. By the way, Wisc is usaually a 4th place team or so in ther B10.
I realise that the BE means a lot to people around here but like it or not it is an inferior football conference. Not exactly a primeplayer in the big scheme of things. Here’s an example:
Mich, Florida, WVU all go undefeated. Who do you honestly think will play in the Championship game? Do you really think for a minute that a team out of the BE is going to get the bid over the B10 and the SEC? Enough said, it’s a weaker conference and the respect just isn’t there.
But congrats on one thing. You made a liar out of me and I wrote again.
