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April 23, 2013

A Semi-Defense of Lunatic Hoopies

Filed under: General Stupidity — Chas @ 8:16 pm

In the aftermath of the ACC Grant of Rights, it has been a lot of fun to take potshots at the numerous Hoopie message boarders and Twitiots who have spent the better part of a year flogging their sources for the imminent demise of the ACC.

The rumors and whispers of an ACC grant-of-rights have no basis in fact.

The beleaguered conference is not close to signing a grant-of-rights and discussions about one have been met with stiff internal resistance.

Internal resistance that my sources say could only be overcome by a significant increase in television money that puts the ACC on par with the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12 and SEC.

Money like that could only come from a 24-hour ACC branded sports channel much like the Big 10 Network or the upcoming SEC Network and that doesn’t seem likely. Why not? Why shouldn’t the ACC, with perhaps the largest media footprint of any conference, be able to launch its own network?

It’s simple economics — ESPN won’t let them. ESPN owns the ACC’s tier 3 television rights (along with Raycom) and doesn’t want the ACC competing (in much the same markets) with the SEC channel set to debut in 2014.

I don’t think there was an ACC-based blog or twitter account that didn’t either get directly hit with this stuff or had to address it in some form from a reader for the past year.

So, when the Grant of Rights by the ACC came out yesterday there was a very amusing — and earned — outpouring of derision at the spectacularly wrong sources of so many levels of crap.



Well, you get the idea. They made a nuisance of themselves to everyone. So, there was a lot of earned potshots being taken. I won’t pretend that I didn’t enjoy it.

Now lost in all of this is a simple truth. WVU was absolutely correct and had no choice but to go to the Big 12.

They weren’t going to get a call from the SEC. The Big Ten and ACC wouldn’t even sniff their academic standings. The Big 12 was their lifeline.

They might not find it a great fit. There are definitely struggles to readjust to recruiting in this new order. And their travel costs and issues are a huge pain. But, that said, it beats the hell out of being in the American Athletic Conference. Cinci would leap to the Big 12 in a second. UConn would probably as well. As would USF — oh, wait, at least one WVU loon is already saying that will happen and it will be spectacular.

And that’s the issue. For a bunch of Twitter loons and Hoopie message boarders it wasn’t enough that their beloved Mountaineers managed to find an (expensive and ill-fitting) escape hatch from the sinking Big East. The ACC — for whom they thought they should be a part — must die for their sin of not accepting the grace of West f*****g Virgnia in their midst (not to mention picking Pitt over WVU).

They couldn’t just leave it at theories or even admitted (and obvious) speculation. It had to be true! They had to be the “My sources” guy that every message board — regardless of topic or nationality has. So they have tried to spin the fantasies of ACC demise. Pushing the theories on all who didn’t think to block them on Twitter.

It hasn’t happened, and now they cling to their delusions. Trying to pretend that it was all so close.

They do make me smile, though.

really nice article Chas. very informative. I did not realize all this stuff was going on the past year in social media.

two questions I have reading your past two posts is:

– why won’t ACC go to 15+ ND and add 1 more school? Is it simply logistics or other reasons?

– Would B12 do something bold such as go after remaining ‘big east’ teams that are good and jump to 14-16 (cinci, ucon, usf, ucf, etc) and then create and east division.. truly become a national conference and run west and east divisions?

If ACC sees 16 as inevitable just wonder why not get it done?


Comment by Pittscript 04.23.13 @ 8:28 pm


There’s no need for the ACC to expand. Aside from the lack of any program that would create more revenue. They are at 14 in football. As I mentioned before, it is unlikely that the ACC goes to a 9-game sked. So, further expansion would make it even harder to play all teams on a regular rotation. You would have 7 division games and play only 1 team from the other division yearly w. 8 games. For example, that would mean facing FSU and Clemson once every 7 years — and once every 14 at home.

15 in basketball is not a big deal since b-ball has more games and doesn’t do divisions.

The Big 12 missed big on Louisville. BYU is focused on its independence (for now) — besides there’s only room in the Big 12 for one program to arrogantly demand the rest of the conference cater to their whims and desires. Expansiopocolypse is still about money. How does Cinci, UConn, etc help that other than more inventory. The Longhorn Network is a detriment to the Big 12 since it reduces inventory for a potential Big 12 network. But, hey, at least the individual schools still have those tier 3 rights.

Comment by Chas 04.23.13 @ 8:59 pm

WVU had to go. Agreed.

Big12 right now, is a good conference. Any adds now besides BYU and Boise just water it down.

Why expand to 16 with also rans???

If they do, talk about a watered down conference.

Maryland move to Big10 may have been ACC’s saving grace.

Went and got Louisville, only other team outside of ACC that Big12 would have wanted.

Now, GofR, nice moves all the way around.

As I said, it was WVU’s only move, however, with them being d*cks about it, my Iowa St. rivalry and back to back hoop trips to Waco and Lubbock will continue on.

Keep PSU on the schedule, alternate with ND and I could care less if I ever see another couch burn.

So long!!!

Comment by Dan 04.23.13 @ 8:37 pm

Did talk to a couple PSU nephews today about a family party coming up, and broached the subject.

Spoke like someone stole their lollypop. Really thought the end game would be getting UNC, UVA, Ga.Tech and Duke.

The arrogance of their fans had them getting all 4.

Had visions of being one of the top dogs in the Eastern Division with Ohio St., and put in Rutgers, Maryland and the 4 ACC schools.

He was allready thinking about road trips south.

It was honest of him. I’ll give him that.

He mentioned that most thought they would be getting two, many thought 4. Their logic was UNC and UVA were coming. To placate the Duke-UNC rivalry, we’ll just take Duke too.

Comment by Dan 04.23.13 @ 8:44 pm

Pitt going to the ACC next fall for the upcoming football season is a good thing, but I will miss Big East basketball. Of course with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, and Notre Dame, the ACC will certainly have a very large part of the Big East. Let’s hope Jamie Dixon brings in a few more big guys for the upcoming basketball season.

Comment by Justinian 04.23.13 @ 9:30 pm

Don’t forget Miami, VT, and BC.

Comment by panther94 04.23.13 @ 9:33 pm

Thank you Chas. Now I understand better… mechanics of schedules and why expand to just expand.

understood on B12 and Thanks DAN as well for the comments.

Makes sense.

Comment by Pittscript 04.23.13 @ 10:08 pm

@Pittscript, sure. I don’t know much, but I have followed expansionopalypse a bit.

A lot of it internet garbage, but, some of it did come true.

Regardless, whether it was their fans or the conferences, or the internet, a break down that a lot thought might come true in the future was

BIG 12 would grab FSU and Clemson from the ACC and get Louisville and BYU. (and even thoughts on Miami and GTU)

BIG 10 would grab UNC, UVA and maybe GTU and DUKE.

SEC would grab Va.Tech and NC ST.

and so the ACC would be done, reform in some Big East ACC merger of leftovers, and that would be where Pitt would be once again.

So, this grant of rights is actually extremely HUGE!!!!

I actually sincerely apologize for using the phrase “also rans”. That’s not fair, could have been us.

I just don’t see UCONN, Cincy or the Florida duo (Central and South) having anything close to the history that Syracuse and Pitt have.

So, that’s who they have to choose from, and those schools just aren’t going to bring the money with them, to add them.

I hope someday, we could pick up UCONN to go with ND all the way in and have a fantastic 16 team conf.

ND will probably not, that’s a given. They had a great year this year, so that won’t help.

One thing I’ve learned, you never know anything anymore. ND was having some lousy teams and their ratings so-so. Kelly signed a long contract, what does that mean these days.

In the long run, probably not bad to have them committed to 5 games in football, and all in, in the other sports.

Especially if it helped get the GofR signed by everyone.

This really is big, for those of us who worried that the Big10 was just one headline away from ruining the ACC.

I was one of those that felt that could happen, and I’m glad I don’t have to think about it anymore!!!

Gettin’ ready for the Seminoles!!!!

Comment by Dan 04.23.13 @ 11:01 pm

ND’s partial membership into the ACC was slammed by many but may have been the life raft the ACC needed to keep the ship afloat and ultimately close the GOR deal. I don’t care if ND ever comes on board as a full member as long as they continue to be aligned with the ACC and agree to play a certain number of games with ACC teams each year.

Its funny how things change so quickly in how conferences are perceived. Just within the last two years, the Big XII looked like it was going to break-up with some teams even potentially joining the Big East. But somehow the conference not only survives but then is rumored to be part of a multi-conference attack to dismember the ACC. Now the ACC appears to be ahead of the Big XII in pecking order with its new GOR deal. Got to hand it to Swofford. He seems to have played his cards really well.

Comment by Floyd 04.24.13 @ 12:12 am

Never seriously thought UNC, UVA or some of the other southern schools would be thinking about leaving for the B1G.

I mean seriously these are ‘southern’ schools indeed most of them were in the old Southern Conference before the formation of the ACC.

Maryland while a founding member, is not and never has been considered a ‘southern’ school.
Their forced neutrality in the Civl War cemented that forever.

The real southern schools would not schuck their southern roots and culture to go play in the Big “Yankee” 10, where also they wouldn’t be running things. UNC & the others very rarely have ever traveled north of the Mason/Dixon to play football. UNC playing in the Burg a few times being the exception.

They will accept some Yankee teams into their conf. (note, it’s their conf.) like BC, Pitt, Syracuse and Miami. Yes Miami is more yankee than southern. But that is far different than being 2nd fiddle to the Yankees of the B1G.

That was never going to happen. Only in Frank the Tank’s blog and the mind of many Hoopies.

The B1G and their arrogant fans just got a good kick in the ass of reality !!!

Comment by EMel 04.24.13 @ 12:32 am

Who gives a rats ass about WVUlgar? The bottom of the barrel. WVU went with slime when they hired Luck. Previously, their AD’s were among the classiest people in the business. That is partially how they were able to overachieve and I admired them for that.
Any chance, slim as it was, the WVUlgars had of joining the ACC went away with Luck as AD. He is slick, but everyone wants to take a shower after 5 minutes with him.
Their days of overachieving are done and spin the Big 12 as best they can while traveling 2400 miles roundtrip just to get to the nearest outhouse is only going to get more and more expensive!
I disagree that the B12 was their best and only move. They and UC and UCONN should be the anchor of the American conference.
That is where WVUlgar performs best and can keep down expenses and draw students from.
At the end of the day, facts matter. And the fact is that travel costs and brand dilution are the tip of the iceberg for the leaky vessel piloted by Captain Luck.
We cheapen ourselves by any engagement with them and I wouldn’t schedule them in anything!

Comment by SFPitt 04.24.13 @ 3:12 am

All I know is that the Louisville Fan Club should send a very nice Christmas present to the University of Maryland in appreciation of them vacating their founding chair at the ACC table. The Cardinals came out of this realignment pretty well off and just in the nick of time.

From the money perspective, Rutgers came out even more fortunate, getting the invite into the BIG10 along with Maryland. The down side to that however is the same geographical issue that WVU is now coping with. If you live in NJ, there isn’t exactly any day trips to go watch a Rutgers away game in the BIG10 conference, is there? Unless you own a Leer jet.

Comment by Dr. Tom 04.24.13 @ 6:34 am

On second thought I guess Maryland and Pedo State aren’t that far away.

Comment by Dr. Tom 04.24.13 @ 6:36 am

One thing is for certain: John Swofford is an outstanding commissioner. He ran this entire process beautifully and his conference came out smelling like a rose.

Comment by Denny 04.24.13 @ 6:42 am

Swofford started it all … it’s only fitting that he ended it all.

Comment by wbb 04.24.13 @ 6:52 am

Rutgers did come out a winner given their
terrible history in FB and BB. However the
excitement of the B10 will fad quickly as
they will be a perennial last place team
in FB and be at best middle of the pack
in hoops. Generally speaking
NE kids want to play on the east coast
particularly in hoops.

Comment by JR 04.24.13 @ 7:10 am


seriously though, UCF/USF? Have fun with that one Hoopies. Not gonna make you’re travel expenses much less. Though I suppose Tampa/Orlando is better than middle of nowhere Iowa/Kansas.

Comment by Greg 04.24.13 @ 7:42 am

So what is the next step in the ACC?

Are there any provisions about the rest of the conference kicking out a member? I wouldn’t be completely against doing a wake vs. UCONN trade… Would be a really scummy move, but I think it would be fun for everyone who isn’t WF.

Comment by Benzene 04.24.13 @ 8:06 am

I’m going to miss checking the Dude of WV’s blogsite. He was always so sure that FSU was Big 12 bound. We as Pitt fans should be flattered that WVU fans are so jealous of Pitt’s position in the ACC that they constantly creat wild rumors and won’t even stop when the facts are pretty clear. Say Big 12 goes to 16 with those hodge podge of teams like UConn, Cincy, UCF and USF there is no way the per school average goes up in the Big 12. Those schools add little to no value to TV. So many delusions.

I don’t think that Rutgers and MD get added to the Big 10 if the Big 10 had known a Grant of Rights was coming.

Comment by Wardapalooza 04.24.13 @ 8:11 am

The Big 12 reached out to the eers in desperation as A&M and Mizzu ditched them. Panic over tv contracts. They had no choice but to accept the Big 12 as every other league made it clear their academics were not good enuff! (Can I buy ya a masters degree?) So now the Big 12 is going to focus all their resources on helping WVU. Right! Ask an A&M fans how much the money barons @ Texas and OU worry about league unity and support. LET stinking wvu ROT! Make that runway down @ cheat lake longer boys yer gonna be takin a lot more flights in them piper cubs. Holgie has two more years in the saddle. He’s gonna have to drown his sorrows in booze. Anybody know Huggies #. H2P UPone

Comment by UPone 04.24.13 @ 8:39 am

Closest the Hoopies will EVER get to a National Championship game is when John Beilien took Michigan this year. They are doomed in all sports and are trending downward bigtime. Their spring game last Saturday was a joke. Their QBs looked horrible I am told and the Mountaineer Maniacs are getting restless. H2P!

Comment by Panther Fan in Hoopieland 04.24.13 @ 8:44 am

Would like to see ACC take UConn before BIG grabs them. It would be a good move for men’s and women’s hoops and, I think it would also help Pitt and ACC football indirectly by offsetting to a degree the presence of the BIG in the Norhteast & Mid-Atlantic they gained when they added Maryland and Rutgers.

I make this point from a Pitt fan perspective in respect to real or perceived recruiting advantages/disadvantages for Football and Basketball. I don’t think it would be good for Pitt, Cuse and BC to have another BIG team in their primary recruiting region.

I am ignoring, of course, any (at least near-term) disadvantage in revenue distribution among ACC teams adding UConn would bring.

Comment by pitt1972 04.24.13 @ 8:44 am

The next time a Hoopie is right about anything, it will be the first time.

Comment by longsufferingpittfan 04.24.13 @ 9:39 am

Since UConn was apparently the preferred school by the ACC (before Pitt) two years ago, I don’t see why they wouldn’t get prime consideration now if they decide to go 16 … unless the BC AD again talks everyone out of it.

The Louisville selection was done to appease FSU and Clemson … UConn definitely fits the ACC footprint.

Comment by wbb 04.24.13 @ 10:39 am

If I were Swafford, I’d do nothing and hold pat at 14. If, he can ever convince ND to go all-in, the ACC would likely have the pick of schools who would jump ship (even leaving an existing big-time conference) to be the 16th in a league with ND. Why settle for UConn when it doesn’t bring any increased revenue and its Fball team and facilities will always be 2nd rate. Fball runs the world in the world of conference revenue, so forget about Bball, UConn doesn’t make any sense.
If ND never goes all-in, so what. You have a 14 team Fball league with stability and some of the most populated markets in the country, and ND locked in where its Fball can’t join any other conference without giving up all of its Bball related TV revenue (even if that’s not huge) to the ACC. A private school will think very long and hard before it gives away revenue, since it doesn’t have taxpayer money to fall back on.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m anything but a ND lover, its just reality, they are the bid dog in generating Fball revenue.

Comment by Taxing Matters 04.24.13 @ 11:12 am

You’re probably right EMEL. Just with the thought of Big10 being big state schools, UNC and UVA being big state schools, seeing and hearing the writing (internet rumors, or real knowledge)on the walls of FSU and Clemson wanting to go to the Big12, and the idea of it coming down to 4 super conferences of 16.

It wouldn’t have suprised me to see a headline from Chas on the Blather……

“Here we go, UNC and UVA to hold press conference today at 3:00”

Ah, well, finally some safety and security.

Comment by Dan 04.24.13 @ 1:08 pm

We are now in a position to become one of the Big Boys. Pitt, there are no more excuses, become the power we have the potential to be.

Football I say we are 3 years away.

Basketball, probably 2 if we get the right guys in the system

Baseball, next year will be a struggle, but a good recruiting class is coming in so I say 2-3 years

Comment by Timmeh 04.24.13 @ 1:34 pm

Severe to fordham

Comment by JP 04.24.13 @ 2:03 pm

WVU despite the poor academics could have gotten in the ACC since Louisville made it in. But they jumped too soon and settled for the B12 which is a poor fit in everyway for WVU.
Pitt passed on the B12 invite from Texas, it was probably that action along with BC rejection of inviting UCONN that got Pitt into the ACC.

Comment by spindler's spirit 04.24.13 @ 4:56 pm

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