Ever since the silliness of Notre Dame associating/aligning themselves with the Big 12 died, there have been intermittent reports of a possible alignment of Notre Dame with the ACC.
The ACC members have been vehemently opposed to partial memberships in the past and have had the attitude of “all in” or “not in” but Swofford said today he’s not sure if that is still the case and of course, he wouldn’t say it but others already have – that subject is indeed being considered with respect to Notre Dame. So don’t be shocked if in the near future Notre Dame is an ACC member in all sports except football and has some sort of scheduling agreement to play X-number of ACC schools in football each year.
Now this one.
Speaking of ND. The Irish and the ACC continue to focus on a deal which would allow ND to play 6 games a year against ACC teams in exchange for getting full membership in the ACC in all other sports.
The sticking point would be in basketball. Putting together a schedule for a 15 team league is much tougher than doing it for a 16 team league. Talks will continue.
I’ll give you reason to panic a bit further down, but for now, take a breath.
The first thing to remember is that the primary reason ND and the ACC are talking is primarily about involving Notre Dame in the Orange Bowl as part of a possible pool of opponents. Now, I am sure that both sides have been feeling each other out. The ACC about full membership, ND about maybe moving its non-football sports into the ACC. After that, it’s all guess-work.
Those are concerning, but Paul Zeise and Mike Blaudschun have most of their ties and sources in the Big East. Yes, Blaudschun was a longtime Boston-based reporter, but as any BC person will tell you, he has long been a Big East guy.
Like the Big 12 stuff, there seems to be a lot of positioning and water testing. This time, however, I would say it is primarily coming from the Notre Dame side. I mean, the ACC has been firm on the whole all-in or not in stuff in the past. Plus, the benefits to ND would clearly be greater than any benefits to the ACC.
For Notre Dame the situation would be ideal. A 4-6 game yearly set in football would be easy in the ACC especially compared to the Big 12. They have their traditional and recently traditional foes in Pitt, Boston College, Syracuse and Miami. Then one or two games every year with the some of the other schools. That would still leave the room on ND’s schedule for USC, Navy and Stanford. Plus rotating Michigan, Michigan St., Purdue, Army, and some other teams. The scheduling accommodations would be minimal.
In addition, an alliance with the ACC presumably also means being part of their bowl alliances. ACC folk decry their tie-ins compared to the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12; but compared to the Big East it is a great lay-out and ND would love it.
Obviously the non-football sports would be in a great situation. All sports, including football, would be getting greater exposure in the Southeast. Plus there is the whole academic side of this. As much as the Big East loves to trumpet the natural fit with all the Catholic schools, ND is much more akin to the ACC academics.
What does the ACC get? Well, it gets its teams some good non-con games with a marquee opponent. The bowl tie-in with ND might open the door to better bowl offers with the extra ND carrot (let’s be blunt, Pitt and Cuse did not sweeten the pot to the bowls). At the very least it would test the proposition that ND helps for bowl tie-ins.
That’s about it on the tangible side of actual benefits to the ACC.
What are the other reasons they would consider it? Fear and hope.
Hope first. The hope is obvious. It is the same false hope that the Big East talked itself into. That if they give ND a place to park their other sports that eventually ND would be a part of the conference in football as well. That they would learn to love the Big East. Want to be a full member.
Instead, it not only made it easier for ND to stay as a football independent, it allowed their non-football sports to thrive and get exposure. There is no reason for the ACC to think that it would be any different for them.
Fear is the other reason. The fear that if they don’t do some sort of deal with ND, they will miss out on them. That they will do the partial with the Big 12, and that someday the Big 12 lands them instead — and then plucks FSU — all because they didn’t make that deal.
Our friends at BC Interruption, has the same feelings I do.
Look, I would love to have Notre Dame become part of the ACC, but on our terms, and let’s be realistic that isn’t happening. ND has a sweet media contract with NBC that they won’t be giving up soon, and unless the ACC can convince them that the new college football playoff system demands them to join a conference, I can’t imagine the Irish giving up their independence.
Having ND partially does nothing for the conference. ND won’t be on ACC television networks, the revenue won’t help the ACC all that much, and most importantly the Irish wouldn’t be completely bought into the ACC product. Please ACC if you are going to bring in ND, tell them it’s on your terms or nothing at all.
That attitude is probably the same one from Cuse, VT and Miami fans as well. All fans who have been in the Big East have seen this deal and know it doesn’t work. Fanbases elsewhere in the conference probably don’t share that view right now, or are willing to believe things could be different.
To them, they see the idea of games with ND on a semi-regular basis as enticing. The chance to up the bowl tie-ins. That, unlike the Big East which didn’t have enough to offer in football, the ACC would be different and geographically enticing. Just like the Big 12 fans who wanted to believe the rumors from last month.
My concern is that the administrations/athletic departments at Pitt, Syracuse, BC and Miami may not share their own fans’ views. To them, the partial membership worked in the Big East while they were there. They got games — and have games in the future — with ND. To tie them to the ACC could be seen as an advantage. Especially with continuing to play them in football. Afterall, it would be easier for ND to continue scheduling those schools if it was part of an agreement with the ACC to play a certain number of ACC opponents yearly.
Still both the Zeise and Blaudschun pieces aren’t enough to believe something could really happen. Even if we were to speculate that some of the ex-Big East teams in (or coming to) the ACC supported it, that doesn’t mean the ACC commissioner himself is starting to consider it.
But Swofford seemed to hedge from that stance Sunday when blitzed by reporters following the formal Q&A.
“We haven’t really asked ourselves that question recently,” he said of accepting Notre Dame sans football. “All I can tell you is that in the past, and this pretty much goes back to when Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College came into the league, our schools felt at that point in time that they were not interested in anything other than full membership with anybody.
“Has that changed? I don’t know. … The only thing I have to go on is based on those previous conversations.”
Okay, that isn’t exactly strong one way or the other, but this is a change.
Consider this Swofford remark from the ACC’s preseason basketball function just nine months ago.
“We’re an all-in, revenue-equal conference. That’s very basic to us. That’s what works for us. … I think going forward we will continue to consider equal revenue sharing and full membership or no membership (important) in our conference. I don’t see that changing.”
He wasn’t nearly as adamant Sunday.
Ummm. Could be more about negotiations. The ACC is trying to put something together with the Orange Bowl to include ND. It really doesn’t have to be viewed as a real softening.
For a real reason to be concerned, maybe one of ACC members would have to say something to indicate a crack.
Like most ACC officials, including commissioner John Swofford, Virginia athletic director Craig Littlepage dismissed notions last year of Notre Dame joining the conference for all sports except football.
Much has transpired since, most significantly further conference realignment and the adoption of a four-team football playoff starting in 2014. So personal reservations about partial membership aside, Littlepage knows “this kind of discussion has to take place.”
Notre Dame, “is a powerful brand,” Littlepage said via email Wednesday. “Any conference would want to consider their potential value (all in, or partial membership).”
Uh-oh.
“What is the added value to the ACC of having [Notre Dame] sports other than football?” Littlepage continued. “Do the other … ND sports being in the ACC enhance the ACC brand and prestige to the extent that we all benefit collectively? I don’t have that answer yet.
“Finally there are a variety of financial questions about potential revenue and how it would be shared. Unequal sharing of revenues within conferences has been a facilitating factor in some of the expansion moves we’ve seen already. Needless to say, there are a number of very important topics that would have to be considered.”
…
Some officials believe a few years of partial ACC membership would convince Notre Dame to go all-in, but the Big East thought that, too.
“There is no question that ND is a great academic institution with a fantastic, comprehensive sports program,” Littlepage wrote. “It would take some convincing, however, for me to believe that having only a portion of ND athletics is best for the ACC at this point in time.
The worry is not that there is a deal coming. It is that they are now on the verge of being willing to consider it.
The Big East was always in a volatile situation with basketball vs. football and ND sprinkled in. The Big East also allowed ND to dictate their own terms & conditions – they never had any negotiating power. ND’s football on it’s own was a greater force than the entire Big East football conference.
This would not be the case in the ACC and I believe ND could slide in rather harmlessly. ND will not be able to intimidate and dictate terms with the ease they had in the Big East. I’m sure if a deal is done, it will be a contract based offer with ND ultimately having to decide all in or nothing. The Olympic sports will play a big deal in this because only the Big East and the ACC can accommodate all of their sports. Otherwise, those sports will be spread across several conferences and devalue the football deal with NBC – because $$ will have to be redistributed throughout the athletic department.
It’s absolutely something the ACC should consider and the conference will have MUCH more influence and bargaining power than the Big East ever had. The ACC knows that ND is not interested in either the Big 10 or Big 12. The only conference it has a shot at, and the only conference ND could remain relevant in, is the ACC.
The ACC has the chips in their favor in this deal not the other way around. This isn’t a deal with the devil (in the Big East it was), it’s a deal with a spoiled brat – I’m sure there will be some headaches. Do it! A conference with the ND brand automatically becomes a bigger player.
Who needs them anyhow? They rank just behind penn state on the arrogant bastards scale, so I say give them the one finger salute and send them off with best wishes to continue to enjoy their deal with the Big East.
Here is my big beef … it seems that all ND needs to do right now is become bowl eligible and then they could trump any other BE team (except the title winner) for a bowl even if the 2nd place BE team had 3 or 4 more wins than ND. That is wrong.
If there is some kind of limit … say the ND can only replace an ACC team if it has 1 less win, then I can live with it since playing them every year in regular season is certainly a plus (but not an absolute necessity.)
That was always my biggest problem with the Notre Dame- BE relationship. But from ND view (and he bowls), it made sense ND was FAQ more desirable and profitable name than any in the BE. But we still hated it and rightfully so?
The wild speculation that we have seen so far seems to indicate the possibility of a different agreement. With oly 3 non-con games, it would be nice to keep ND. also, ND as a brand does not hold th same huge advantage over Miami, FSU, or VT as it did over, say, UCONN, Rutgers or South Florida.
IF anything happens, it needs to be either all in or a much better deal than the BE had.
Besides, they are neither in the East or on the Atlantic Coast. Let them play in the Big Ten where they belong.
ND is a marque name in college sports but the ACC will thrive without ND. Pitt will be part of the ACC in 2013 and that’s all I care about. HTP!
How hypocritical of ND to abandon the “greater enterprise” called the BE or by proxy its brethren
Lest we forget one year ago
I just read an article on the football student section trying to feed off of the Zoo’s success with naming the student section. While I’m cool with the student section name – The Pitt – they should consider The Script. Alumni haven’t had much sway on this matter, but maybe the students would.
The B10 has a larger TV agreement, better bowls, and of course requires less travel for ND than any other conference. It also has 3 of the 4 teams of ND’s most cherished rivals.
does not have many desirable markets. Besides Chicago, which ND already delivers, name a market that caters to ND’s target audience….Cleveland? Detroit? Minneapolis? Indianapolis? all nice markets but not areas ND’ers are entrenched in.
Justonian…I’m fine and happy with “Pitt” as well. I just offered The Script as an alternative to create a movement towards getting the Script back. I was just saying if people are serious about bringing it back something like that could be the ground swell a grassroots movement needs.
Here’s the deal…There are segments of Pitt’s fanbase who don’t want to play ND, WVU or PSU when playing any or all of them would benefit Pitt. All the have cons but the pros far outweigh them. Would you rather play ND as conference game or a non-con? Conference is the obvious answer because it locks in the rivalry plus opens up the schedule. the Pitt administration obviously values this partnership so the ACC bringing them on board makes sense for Pitt. They really are the last piece of the puzzle so the ACC should absolutely try and wine and fine dine them.
then when it is time to go to 16 teams they will come on board were there BB and outher spoets are
and this comes from one who hates them.
that we needed every thing else is gravy.
be it more PF or SG or SF once you have what you need the rest is gravy.
Justinian — it’s all about primetime and adverstising dollars
Please pardon the pun.
The ACC is in a different situation. They don’t need ND. They want them but there is a big difference. Plus the money that ND gets for it’s TV deal is almost the same as individual conference members get. Plus ND coming to the ACC would increase their current TV deal.
ND is risking being left out in the cold by staying independent. With the playoff coming, there may not be room for a ND in the future.
wbb, I agree and I’m sure that if they did join the ACC there would be a termination clause that if they didn’t become a full member by said date then they would be on their own.
It’s all speculation and we don’t even know if any talks have taken place. I’m just saying that if getting ND in the fold is an option, they should jump at the chance. There’s a reason that the Big 12 and Big 10 want them – they are a revenue producer and it’s all about the money. Just ask Florida St.
and WR brown.
Because some of those long standing traditional rivals would be replaced with new, non-traditional games against Clemson or Wake Forest or NC State.
The alumi wouldn’t like that forced down their throat, all at once. So what do you do? You do what’s been done in the shaping of America, the last 30-40 years, you do it in increments.
First you play 6 ACC teams a year, of which some are your long-standing rivals (like Pitt) and others are more recent rivals (like BC, Cuse & Miami), which hardly makes it appear like anything is amiss with the traditionalists in South Bend.
Add in a couple crowd pleasers like Florida State and Va Tech and who could complain about.
After several seasons of this, the alumni at ND have now been conditioned a little, they’ve traveled down South on road games, realize it isn’t the South of the past, they feel more comfortable with the whole thing. Perhaps ND got to play in the Orange Bowl against the ACC champion and truly enjoyed all that is Miami and the whole experience of it.
At that point adding 3 more conf games to ND’s schedule is not nearly the mountain it was, if it ALL had to be done at once. After visiting some beautiful campuses in the South and enjoying the gorgious fall days at places like Chapel Hill and Charlottesville, now it doesn’t seem as bad if they don’t play Purdue or Navy or Mich State every year. (my guess is they would keep USC & Michigan on the schedule regardless)
So maybe just maybe this is how Swofford and the ACC power ppl and the ND ppl see this. You bring them in gradually. Sure it would be great if you could just bring ND in all at once.
But ND is a special case (like a special date) and sometimes(most times) a special date deserves special treatment. I would just hope that the ACC ppl, have a similar type plan of bringing them into the conference gradually(if All at once is Out of the Question) and that it’s written into the agreement with ND. And that it all ends in the same result. Full membership !
Hope ur having a good summer Frank !!
becuse it is tino time very soon.
That said, ND will not negotiate from a position of weakness and as such, they need to continue to puff out their chests in an effort to get the best deal. Unfortunately for them NBC realizes that since 1991, ND has been a combined 161-94-2. Of that, the 1991 thru 1993 record was 31-5-1. Do the math since 1994 to present and their record is a very average 130-89-1. ND is not in a position of strength yet they continue to act as if they are. Those are the facts, but the perception of a yearly powerhouse continues.
ND had the power when there were only four major television network carrying college football games in the late 80’s early 90’s, plus they were a great team. The landscape has changed so drastically with cable and conference tv networks, that the ND games are losing their attractiveness and viewership, which goes to the crux of the problem. Add to that, a mediocre program with wins and losses and you have a problem.
When the new tv contract gets done, ND and whichever conference they decide to have an association with, will look like this. ND home game vs. opponent on NBC. Conference affiliation games go to the NBC network “Versus”. No added exposure for the conference affiliate members, although they will get some sort of money share “for playing nicely”. The ACC can’t be that conference due to the ESPN affiliation which competes with NBC.
A recent straw vote from ND BOT’s, favors ACC for full membership. They also want to win championships and to do that, conference affiliation is a requirement. The ND braintrust understands dropping viewership and an average product on the field for 20 years. Not coincidentally, they haven’t played for a championship since crafting their own deal. They also don’t want to play third fiddle to Michigan and OSU and for those reasons, ND will say that they have a perfect fit with the ACC academically and from the olympic sport perspective. Will it happen in two years, no. I do expect ND to move within 5 years.
Finally, ND cannot get any bigger financially using the current format and if you are not getting bigger, you are getting smaller. That is a bad sign for ND.
What if that Orange Bowl rematch was PITT vs ND?
lol
Being a loyal future member of the ACC I would watch the Orange Bowl regardless. I just wish they would keep it on New Year’s Day night which was ALWAYS the Orange Bowl’s time slot, back in the day. When things were normal. haha
Is there ever enough booze for Tiny(o) Time ?
Just asking ?
🙂
Appreciate that thought, and yes you are allowed to agree with me, lol It shows you have mental acumen.
🙂
ND will not be joining a conference for football anytime soon.
So all this speculation is interesting but nothing is going to come of it.
Heading to South Bend on 11/3. Had to book rooms in Mishawaka, all hotels are full already. ND is the best game on our schedule this year!
Curious what was meant by that comment. I’m hoping the intention was to imply that it would be logistically easier to schedule east coast ACC schools as opposed to teams from the Great Plains. That I agree with. However, I totally disagree that Notre Dame’s ACC slate of games would be easier than the Big 12’s slate of games over the long-run. Maybe in the next few years, yea. But, do people realize that this stuff is cyclical. Can anyone point to any evidence, any at all, that would suggest that the following teams: Oklahoma State, TCU, Kansas State, West Virginia, and Baylor are going to be anything more than mediocre over the long run? People dont realize that the Big 12 has 5 “also-ran” programs that are going through “glory days” right now. That stuff CANNOT continue. These schools cannot maintain this level of play over the long-term. Not all at once. 5 years from now, please tell me why Maryland (Under Armour money) cant be better than Oklahoma State? Why cant BC be better than Baylor? Pitt better than WVU? NC State better than Kansas State? GT better than TCU? Man do people view have short-sighted views. The ACC is the better overall football conference. Just not right at this moment.
