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November 6, 2010

Big East Expansion Babble Round-Up

Filed under: Big East,Conference — Chas @ 2:51 pm

I was going to call it news. but most of it doesn’t even come close to that. Opinions, pontifications, lunacy, and stupidity? Plenty. Actual news. Well, that’s rather limited.

So let’s get that out of the way first with some comments from Big East Commissioner John Marinatto from a Wednesday interview.

One factor that could play a huge role in the league’s expansion plans are its current and future television markets. The Big East’s current TV contract with ESPN/ABC expires after the 2013 football season and the 2012-13 basketball season.

If the Big East added new members before the current TV contracts expire, the league could seek to renegotiate.

“Membership — quality membership and quality inventory — drives value,” Marinatto said. “We’re certainly cognizant of the value that expansion and quality inventory would bring to a television partner.”

Marinatto also indicated there has been “no discussion” about forcing out any existing members to make room for any additional schools.

None of this is really news, so much as confirmation of what was believed/expected.

This just in, the Bulls at Buffalo are aware that they are not up for Big East consideration. Only one god-forsaken hell-hole of a city from New York is allowed in the conference.

An editorial from a Greenville area paper exhorting the Pirate faithful to pack the place this weekend.

A capacity crowd is likely to fill Dowdy-Ficklen Stadium on Saturday as East Carolina University takes on the U.S. Naval Academy in the Pirates’ final non-conference game this year. Rarely have those in the stands been more important since it emerged this week that the Big East Conference will likely pursue the expansion of its football membership in the coming weeks.

And guess who’s name has not been mentioned as being a contender?

A column in Orlando insisting that UCF should not even consider a football-only offer from the Big East. The column spits on the Big East. “You suck, so let us in,” is probably not the best negotiating approach for UCF if they do start talking with the Big East. Another columnist acknowledges that UCF is kind of screwed if they do or don’t take a football-only offer.

UCF simply gets squeezed out because of convenience/logistics.

And that simply stinks. Pardon the parochial rant, but the school has done everything possible to make itself more attractive to prospective conference suitors.

And after all that, UCF is given these two choices:

Accept the football-only invitation and muck it up for everybody else. It’s a big upgrade for football but leaves all other programs scrambling for conference affiliations of relevance nationally.

Decline the football-only invitation, leaving open the very real possibility that it will be ignored by in the conference-upgrade frenzy as the major schools separate themselves farther and farther from the pack.

For the record, I’m against football-only invites. That is a recipe for increasing instability. Not reducing. Still, it is kind of fun to see an oddly self-entitled program/local media/fanbase like UCF squirm over the situation. Besides, when Mike Bianchi (a Jay Mariotti wannabe) goes one way, my impulse is to run the other.

There’s always the Notre Dame issue. Kevin Gorman goes Big East populist and pretends the Big East has any leverage in forcing Notre Dame to choose. Sorry. It doesn’t work that way no matter how much we wish for it. Andy Staples at SI.com contrasts it as ND should join to be the equivalent of Miami in the conference (or FSU in the ACC in the 90s).

It may take a few more hirings and firings, but sooner or later, the people in charge at Notre Dame will figure out that the Irish’s recent failures aren’t exclusively the fault of the past four coaches. Some of the issues are systemic. The Irish will not contend for the national title on a regular basis, and the dream of winning enough games in most years to qualify for a BCS bowl is fading fast.

Notre Dame has every reason to cherish its football independence. It is woven into the fabric of the university, and it is a noble ideal. Unfortunately, it isn’t practical if the Irish want to win on a consistent basis. Unlike the other still-powerful schools in desolate recruiting areas, Notre Dame can’t bring in a bunch of junior college transfers. It also can’t take a lot of players with risky transcripts. It needs a different solution. That solution is joining a conference of which it is already a member.

The sheer power of Notre Dame’s marketing might — what other average football program receives this much coverage and interest? — would assure the Big East of keeping an AQ spot for as long as the BCS exists. Television networks would line up four-deep to throw money at Marinatto. If Villanova is the other new addition, the Big East could maintain its current 16-team basketball alignment and avoid damaging its valuable hoops television package.

Most importantly for Notre Dame, the Irish could win the conference in football and go to a BCS bowl every few years. Of those four wins this season, one came against Pittsburgh — the only team in the Big East that controls its destiny for the conference title. Every Big East team begins each season with at least a puncher’s chance, and only West Virginia and Cincinnati have managed to maintain consistent success recently.

Notre Dame to the Big Ten made plenty of sense on the balance sheet, but it made no sense on the field.

The one problem with this plan is that it is always about the money. If ND were to go to a conference, the only thing that might save the collective asses of the administration that makes that call are buckets of money that can placate the subway alum. Besides, no fan wants to hear that they should play in a “lesser” conference to get the wins. You are essentially saying, “no we aren’t that good.”

Finally, for those dreaming of the day when mega-conferences roam college football, Mr. SEC has his projected SEC in circa-2018. Not sure I buy it since Oklahoma is in, but not Texas. I think we have all seen that Oklahoma is following Texas wherever it goes.





What no mention of TCU ? BE should go after TCU if only to open the state of Texas to BE recruiting. BE needs a winner now and TCU is it !

Comment by Marty 11.06.10 @ 5:07 pm

TCU is currently manhandling Utah at Utah. This team is for real and might be the best in the country. Hopefully the BCS will GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO PROVE IT. It’s 47-7 TCU as I type this.

On the ND front, what we don’t want to do is expel them for other sports and force them into the Big 10 for exactly those sports. Also having ND in the bowl lineup for the BE, was the ONLY reason we had the Gator Bowl so long, and why we played in the Sun Bowl and not the Muffler Bowl, again. So there are indeed benefits for having ND around. I don’t really understand the hate for ND, they keep Pitt on it’s schedule and that is usually our biggest game or games of the season and is ALWAYS NATIONALLY televised. If ND dropped Pitt it would add Penn State. Although I believe most on this site are Pitt people, there are those that post things that lead me to believe otherwise.

Comment by VirgilSollozzo 11.06.10 @ 6:36 pm

Man i have egg on my face TCU is killing UTAH!

Comment by POLE 11.06.10 @ 6:39 pm

Great write. I agree – football only invitation is basically worthless to any school having no other options but the Big East. Utah got killed today by TCU 47-7…doesn’t help Pitt get in the polls.

Comment by TonyinHouston 11.06.10 @ 6:57 pm

Mind you this was a Utah (21 straight home wins ended with a thud today) team who pummeled Iowa State the other week at Iowa State 68-27. The same Iowa State who beat Texas and lost to Nebraska by 1 point today in overtime 31-30. TCU is the most complete team I’ve seen play this year. The idiots in Providence should be on a plane to Dallas tonite and offer them an invite to the BE. Not begging some little division 2 school in Philly with 6000 undergrads to join your conf, in football. Get real Providence.

Comment by VirgilSollozzo 11.06.10 @ 7:08 pm

Virgil i like the way you think! I was thinking about something crazy what if the bigeast kicked some basketball schools and offerd Kansas, Kentucky, B.C, TCU or any combo of one from every conference. They dont care about raiding big east teams so make it known that we have the best Basketball schools and we are searious about football.

Comment by POLE 11.06.10 @ 7:56 pm

I think UK and KU like being the top dogs in their conferences for bball. Worth a shot though

Comment by Tony Cancilla 11.06.10 @ 10:16 pm

I really think the only reason Nova is being considered is that it doesnt really hurt anything. If they can play we might as well add them without adding to the 16

Comment by Tony Cancilla 11.06.10 @ 10:17 pm

Villanova is being considered because it is a founding basketball school in the Big East. Because the Big East is a basketball conference. If they get a football invite, which I am confident they will, that is a total insult to the football schools. A clear signal this league does not give a rat’s derriere about football. Despite a few moron writers for the Orlando Sentinel, UCF would kill to join this league, and is a team on the rise. And TCU – was someone here seriously suggesting adding them would be a bad idea?

Comment by PO'd Panther 11.06.10 @ 11:35 pm

“Only one god-forsaken hell-hole of a city from New York is allowed in the conference.”

Ouch.

I’ve been to Syracuse a couple of times in the last few years. I’m not saying I’d build a summer home there, but it’s not as bad as all that.

Comment by Jeff 11.07.10 @ 12:14 am

Not to sound too disrespectful, but I find it hard to see Marinatto’s words without thinking of him being a die-hard Cher fan.

HTscriptP

Comment by Cool Hand Nuke 11.07.10 @ 2:40 am

Great article about Jabaal Sheard by Paul Zeise in today]s PG. The thrust of the piece is mostly about the Pitt DE as a caring and talented human being. No wonder he was elected a captain by his teammates. With young people such as Jabaal and gifted writers like Paul the world isn’t really all bad. Gentlemen, I salute you. Rev. George of Columbus.

Comment by Rev. George Mehaffey 11.07.10 @ 12:57 pm

Simple solution people for the Big East. Get ride of all basketball only schools, except Notre Dame; bring in TCU, Houston, UCF, and Navy, which would be your football only school. You don’t need these little bball catholic schools that should be in the Atlantic 10. They add no major media value. Also if you get TCU and Houston in your league your getting not only the Texas market but also the New York/New Jersey at the same time.

If you got rid of all bball only schools, bball would still be one of the better leagues anyways. Would loosing DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence hurt? I highly doubt it. A DePaul, Duquesne game would be great, along with a Richmond, Seton Hall game. I strongly feel the basketball only schools hurt the Big East more than you think. They bring in little revenue (like an A10 school) they have small arenas with exceptions of Georgetown, and Villanova, and they don’t give you big ratings for games. Think about it. Villanova vs. St. Johns games will not get more ratings than a Duke, NC-State game, or a North Carolina FSU game. I’m telling you people an TCU WVU game or a Louisville Houston game would get more ratings do to the Texas and the south mid western market…

Comment by Lou 11.07.10 @ 1:02 pm

Simple solution people for the Big East. Get ride of all basketball only schools, except Notre Dame; bring in TCU, Houston, UCF, and Navy, which would be your football only school. You don’t need these little bball catholic schools that should be in the Atlantic 10. They add no major media value. Also if you get TCU and Houston in your league your getting not only the Texas market but also the New York/New Jersey at the same time.

If you got rid of all bball only schools, bball would still be one of the better leagues anyways. Would loosing DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence hurt? I highly doubt it. A DePaul, Duquesne game would be great, along with a Richmond, Seton Hall game. I strongly feel the basketball only schools hurt the Big East more than you think. They bring in little revenue (like an A10 school) they have small arenas with exceptions of Georgetown, and Villanova, and they don’t give you big ratings for games. Think about it. Villanova vs. St. Johns games will not get more ratings than a Duke, NC-State game, or a North Carolina FSU game. I’m telling you people an TCU WVU game or a Louisville Houston game would get more ratings do to the Texas and the south mid western market…

Comment by Lou 11.07.10 @ 1:02 pm

Yes, Marinatto kicking out Providence, his alma mater and the place where he worked for more than two decades, from the conference that he’s currently chairs would be very interesting.

Comment by Seth 11.07.10 @ 2:35 pm

Fully agree with no football only schools in the confernce. The Big East needs to stay an all sports conference as much as possible. The two best additions would be TCU and UCF. Both schools could immediately join the conference, hopefully in 2012. Villanova has some issues in moving up to BCS and would take more time. If Villanova comes on board, then pick up Houston for a twelve league conference. West or South Division would be TCU,Houston, UCF, USF, Louisville, and Cinncinnati. The East or North Divison would be Pitt, West Virginia, UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, and Villanova. This opens up Texas and further solidifies Florida for recruiting purposes. This would also allow these twelve schools to break away from the BB only schools in the future. If Villanova does not come on board, then bring in Temple in all programs.

Best scenario for Pitt continues to be a bid from the ACC when everything breaks loose in the conference realignment. Hopefully we would be joined in the new ACC with West Virginia, Syracuse, and UConn. I am totally against joining the Big Ten and also believe we will never get invited.

Comment by John in South Carolina 11.07.10 @ 3:14 pm

O.K. let’s take a look at the cost of adding TCU as a full Big East member.
Who pays for the travel costs for the baseball, soccer, swimming teams, etc to visit Texas? How does TCU pay the enormous travel costs to play in the Big East basketball geographic footprint?
$$$ Money talks!! The only way this would work out would be to add TCU, Houston, UCF and either Memphis or East Carolina in order to set up a Southern Division which would lower travel expenses. I WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SAY THAT THIS GROUPING WOULD NOT WORK WITH ECU OR MEMPHIS!

Comment by isnore 11.08.10 @ 10:34 am

John in South Carolina you are on the same page with me from my previous discussions regarding Pitt in the ACC. The Big East is a lopsided Providence run basketball mess…the Big 10 wants Rutgers//NOT Pitt. We would be a perfect fit, geographic, academic, tradition, football/basketball and decent sized TV market for the ACC.

Comment by isnore 11.08.10 @ 10:39 am

Going back to my assertion on the previous thread that the expansion vote was politically motivated, I agree with PO’d Panther that a Villanova invite is a given, whether we like it or not. That means only 1 team will really be added. This was a vote to go have 10 FB teams, not to add 2 new schools to the conference, not to have 12 FB teams, and certainly not to kick out any BB schools. Villanova + one made it palatable for the BB schools, which is why the vote was unanimous.

One of the other key elements is conference stability. That’s why IMHO, UCF will be the +1 school. It’s in the current footprint, they REALLY want to join the Big East, and it’s a program on the rise (just cracked the Top 25) with a fairly young team. It’s also a huge public school giving them a better chance for long term success in all sports.

I like TCU’s football team – this year. I hope they play in the BCS NC game. I think they would be a great add if the BE was expanding to 12 teams. Then the BE could also approach Houston as many suggested. But the BE is only going to 10 (‘Nova + 1), so I don’t like TCU as the +1 team. TCU really wants and belongs in the Big 12. That doesn’t give me a feeling that they’ll bring stability to the BE, rather the contrary, especially if they’re the only team from the West. Also, this year’s team is senior-laden (14 starters including Dalton being a 4-year starter). Next year may be a huge rebuild for them. And, what happens if Patterson bolts for bigger money? Finally, TCU is a small private school making their chances for long term success in other sports more challenging.

Now, if ‘Nova balks on stepping up to big time football because of the investment, it’s a whole new ballgame. And it will be interesting to see how the BE presidents and ADs react.

Comment by TampaT 11.08.10 @ 11:45 am

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