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December 16, 2007

Sympathy For the Minor Demon

Filed under: Coaches,Fans,General Stupidity — Chas @ 11:35 pm

Personally, I’m not operating under any illusions that the loss to Pitt played any part in Rich Rodriguez’s decision to bolt WVU for Michigan. That’s just a little too much hubris that frankly, Pitt and we fans haven’t earned. To consider the guy who coached the Mountaineers to the upset over Georgia in the Sugar Bowl when held in Atlanta as some sort of choker is just silly. If you want to claim that he’s reached the point where he thinks he can’t go any further and seeks a higher level, I buy that. He nearly bolted last season for ‘Bama, but stayed for less money but key improvements in facilities and assistants pay. Arguing that if he had beaten Pitt, and was playing for the national championship and would have ignored Michigan’s entreaties is something I doubt. He was perfectly willing to go behind his own AD’s back with Michigan not seeking the cursory permission to speak.
I don’t like WVU or whining Rodriguez. I do respect, however, from a pure football standpoint what he has accomplished. His approach on offense and schemes he has developed has been one of the significant changes/innovations to college football in the past 20 years.

I also can’t help but feel a little pity for WVU. To lose the coaches who brought back their basketball and football programs in the same year to the same school is just beyond belief. That has to come back on the Wolverines at some point.

That said, he’s arguably as bad or worse than the duplicitous Bobby Petrino. Rodriguez was happy to use back-channels to let Michigan know he was interested and helped/aided in avoiding even the courtesy of having Michigan seek permission to talk to him. Add in that Rodriguez was a WV native and WVU alum and how much more does it hurt, even with his past flirtations.

It should also be a reminder/wake-up for Pitt and Pitt fans — and almost any other school and their fanbase — that hiring a “Pitt guy” means nothing. Absolutely nothing with coaching loyalty. If there is a better opportunity, more money or any other reason/excuse a coach will at a minimum listen and use it as leverage for more money.

That Coach Wannstedt hasn’t been approached in his time at Pitt is not a reflection of his loyalty but his win-loss record to this point. In the past Miami and Nebraska have both at least talked to him about their programs before he came back to Pitt.

I’m not trying to be negative, but I do think the coaching carousel deserves hard, cold cynicism. It’s why, when there is a change in coaching or the athletic department, nothing pisses me off more than hearing about the need for some “Pitt guy” or someone who understands the area or a local connection. The most important thing is to find the best coach for the job and who will do the best job. Period.





Though I agree with you that an incredibly important position like head coach should be based significantly on merit, you can not disregard the importance of having a “pitt guy” or a “michigan man.” Though I believe Rodriguez will do a great job at Michigan, there was greater potential for Les Miles (a “Michigan Man) as he is familiar with the program and much more familiar with the recruiting area. That being said, although Wannstedt hasn’t made significant strides in terms of win-loss, the Pitt football program is seemingly on the rise with local talents Shady McCoy (even though he is not from the pittsburgh area he was still a PA recruit), LaRod Stevens-Howling, Aaron Berry, Jeff Otah, John Malecki, and with a number of bright freshmen prospects and high school prospects( highlighted by rivals top 100 recruits Lucas Nix, Jonathan Baldwin, and hopefully Shayne Hale).

Comment by the breast stroke is the best stroke 12.17.07 @ 12:15 am

Michigan made a horrible choice in the hiring of RR. RR shoul dhave stayed in Morgantown. He is only getting .5 million more than his WVU contract plus he has that buyout clause of 4 million that I hope WVU sticks to him.

In regards to the article- I disagree. There is nothing wrong with have a Pitt man or whatever school man. You need someone who knows the history and can embrace. Look at Cooper from OSU. He did not reralize the relevaance and history of the OSU and UM game. Look at CAllahan- he did not understand the history of NU football and the walk on program. A coach needs to understand the school histoiry and tradition and embrace them. RR made a bad move. The spread offense if a joke. It looks nice on the video game but what abou tthe transition to the league for offensive players. NOT TO GOOD.

BTW- Tebow should have never won the HEisman in the gimmick offense with no running back

Comment by cdmoore25 12.17.07 @ 12:42 am

I agree with your statement that coaching loyalty is nonexistent these days. However, I would put any amount of money on Wanny staying at Pitt until either the school forces him out or hopefully he retires/dies after reaping the benefits of his stellar recruiting and bringing Pitt back to the top. My point is this, Wanny is committed to this school, to this city, and to this team. He is not looking anywhere else. As much as we hate JoePa, Wanny could be that type of coach for Pitt if he starts winning. Complain about his record all you want, but we have a loyal coach.
And btw, who needs Pryor, as long as he isn’t in the Big East, we won’t see him. Let Wanny recruit players who want to be here and want to be part of something special.
Look at Herb Pope – he was an egotistical recruit, wanted too much, probably wanted to use Pitt to get to the next level only. And then compare him to a guy like Blair – you don’t see a minute of the game without his smile and you can tell he wants to be here.
Pitt has plenty of options at QB, has a wealth of talent coming in and these guys want to be here. Go Pitt.

Comment by wannstache 12.17.07 @ 2:10 am

You have to wonder. If WVU beat PITT, would Coach Rod have left his alma, community,and State where he grew up in it’s FIRST National Championship? The PITT beatdown let this happen.

What if Pryor doesn’t commit to Michigan? Mallet is a heck of a QB but definately not a spread QB. A look at past WVU offenses show little passing. Will this affect potential WR recruits? Will the big gigantic linemen of Michigan initially feel comfortable running a spread. Lots of movement, less straight forward. Forget about recruiting those top dropback passers in the nation. They are now limited to a specific type of QB. Power running backs that are big enough for the grind of Big Ten defenses/season need not apply. Wanted signs for lighter faster running backs that can hit the corner are needed. The transition for the team and fans could be rough. Michigan is not in a rebuilding year. I’d say two (maybe three at the most) with 3 or more losses and RR is on the unemployment line. Where will he go? Definately not home. It’s one thing to cut and run for your dream job or coach where you graduated and grew up. Coach R left his alma and outright lied to his players, fans, and University. THIS GUY LACKS SO MUCH CLASS THAT HE TOLD A RECRUIT BEFORE HIS TEAM.

Comment by ironhead 12.17.07 @ 5:59 am

The big winner is PITT. WVU was ready to contend next year but now are in caos. Michigan just took a big crap on there power tradition and image. They could not lure a Michigan guy, got rejected from the head coach at Rutgers (now that is funny), and then went begging with a ton of money for a slimy coach who would come in quick to save recruiting.

Comment by ironhead 12.17.07 @ 6:04 am

Chas – I agree with the gist of your article regarding Head Coaching loyalties, but beg to differ on Dave Wannstedt specifically.

Coaches want a number of things to happen during their professional careers; win games, have an impact on the team/school/students, and rise to the top of the profession (big college programs then to the NFL). RR is on that track now. DW did it a little differently.

DW critics aside – the man has already accomplished pretty much what every football coach dreams of when he was named HC of the Bears and Dolphins (throw in NFL Coach of the Year also). He was very successful in the pro ranks for a period of time.

Now he’s in his mid-fifties and, one would think, financially secure enough to seek a comfort level in his life’s work as opposed to scrambling to reach the top – he’s already been there.

PITT is his perfect fit to close out his coaching career – coming back to his alma mater and building a program with a solid foundation and built to win. I truly don’t believe there is another job out there that would sway DW from what he’s trying to accomplish here at PITT. We take good care of our football legends here on the banks of the Mon – always have and always will, and DW could easily start winning football games regularly and go down in legend alongside those he grew up reading about.

No, I think he’s keeping his eyes on the prize here at PITT and we’ll have him around for awhile.

Comment by Reed 12.17.07 @ 6:06 am

Do you think that Slaton & White will both go pro now that RR is gone?

Comment by Sean 12.17.07 @ 7:15 am

Agree with Reed and confused with Chaz thought process. Your first paragraph states that the PITT loss did not have any affect on this decision and he may have chose Mich because maybe he could not go higher and seeks a higher level. What is the highest point. I would think for any coach that highest point would be a National Championship ring on their finger. It’s always about winning. To do that as the alum and resident of the State where you grew up and became recognized is a dream many of us would fantasize about. For your point to be accurate, Coach Rod would have to realize that he would not and could not get the National Championship at WVU. How did he realize this Championship would not happen? He lost to PITT, end of story. You can’t have it both ways.

You then go on to say you respect Coach Rod on a pure football standpoint. What is a pure football standpoint. Teamwork? How about honesty, Integrity,class? This guy told every recruit that walked through his door that their was no way he was ever leaving. He had the WVU admin pony up for his assistants and upgrades to his program. He aroused the fan base with pride. He pounded his chest and satated he was WVU. HE TOLD A RECRUIT BEFORE HIS TEAM WHILE THE SEASON IS STILL GOING ON, AFTER THE WORST DEFEAT IN THEIR YOUNG LIVES THAT HE WAS LEAVING. From a pure football standpoint, this guy is not coaching material. Both S. Hale and Pryor have made slight comments about his integrity. There is a classy way to do things and there are selfish ways to approach decisions. He used back channels so his own AD would not catch wind of this going on. He doesn’t get it. How can any recruit believe what comes out of his mouth. I really can’t see him long-term at Michigan. He definately can’t go home.

Lastly, How is this a reminder/wake up for PITT? Hiring a “PITT” guy means nothing? Have you been awake for the last 100 years. Many coaches talk of going back to their dream jobs. These jobs are either where they played ball, grew up, or both. I may be wrong but I think your just anti-Coach W. You can’t come out and yell about getting rid of him because you will be ridiculed. So your subconscious masked your argument in a completely senseless diatribe towards the current PITT staff.

And Michigan. Write it down. Bad move. They will go through some hard times. They can blame Coach Rod, get rid of him in a few years, and then bring in a “Michigan” Man.

As for WVU. Why pity. Michigan took their basketball coach and they went out and got a better one. WVU definately were lucky the old coach left. We will see what happens on the football side.

As for PITT, PSU has a crack in the foundation, WVU is in caos, Michigan is changing it’s identity and we are on the verge of an excellent recruiting class and a stable staff run by “PITT” men.

Comment by ironhead 12.17.07 @ 7:45 am

Cdmoore,

If he only gets .5 million more then he would have to go 4 years to break even if he pays out the 4 mil. If he doesn’t land Pryor, switches the team to the spread, w/ Mallet at QB, how many years will they give him to implement his system? 3 years of losses to OSU, Wisc, N.D., & PSU will not be tolerated. This is not a team in rebuilding. This is a team stacked with talent. This all hinges on the QB position. The spread can’t work w/o a running QB.

Comment by ironhead 12.17.07 @ 7:59 am

I wonder how much of this hire has to do specifically with Pryor? As we all know, he is a OSU prospect. If RRod told them he has verbal confirmation that Pryor is in his pocket if he is the coach of Michigan, was it a deal-maker?

Comment by apostles03 12.17.07 @ 8:35 am

I doubt he got the job based on one recruit. Michigan gets top notch recruits every year.

As much as I hate the Big 10, it is a defensive conference. Teams like State Penn and OSU pride themselves on stopping the run. It is a much different game than playing Louisville in 100 point shootouts. The teams that beat RR like USF and Pitt played a Big 10 style game against him.

What will RR do when his spread fails in the Big 10, like he said “he knows nothing else.” I look for him to be a huge flop.

Comment by Chris 12.17.07 @ 9:13 am

In terms of Dave Wannstedt specifically, I want to believe in his loyalty, but there are too many examples out there of coaches who show otherwise. It is all theoretical, and does depend on the job in question.

Imagine if Pitt had jumped last year record wise from 5-6 in 2005 to 8-4 in 2006. A significant improvement, and coinciding with the Miami opening. Given Wannstedt\’s ties to the school and area, and relationships still maintained they wouldn\’t have sought to discuss their opening? Don\’t you think he would have at least listened if for no other reason than to remind Pitt to keep putting money into the program? Again, cynically, this the way the coaching game is played.

CDMoore25 — the point about getting a Pitt guy was about loyalty to the program, not about whether that is best (a whole different issue). Something that was/is a bit of a hang-up at times for Pitt and many of the fans. That was reflected in the hiring process that led to Wannstedt where the overwhelming majority of candidates sought were Pitt alum (Sunseri, Cavanaugh, Lewis, Wannstedt, and I\’m blanking on a couple others) the only exceptions being Pelini and Rhodes.

Ironhead — Conflating Rodriguez\’s (lack of) character and integrity with his coaching acumen and creativity is BS. It\’s like saying Belichick is a poor coach because he cheated on his wife, broke up another marriage and is an all-around a-hole. It makes him a lousy person, but he\’s still a hell of a coach.

As for my bias. I think I tend to make things very clear where I stand on coaches when I have strong feelings. With Wannstedt, let me see if I have this straight: since I am not absolutely a true believer, and have some doubts, that makes me anti-Wanny.

Is that about right? I\’m either with him completely and without reservation or I\’m against him and seeking to undermine him?

Comment by Chas 12.17.07 @ 9:36 am

Winning matters, but not as much as money.

If the Atlanta Falcons came running to Dave Wannstedt and offered him a nice raise, Pitt would be scrambling to find a new head coach too.

Loyalty exists in sports, but only at the right price.

Comment by Brian 12.17.07 @ 9:48 am

I am going to agree with chas and disagree..
The pitt game definitely was the piece of the puzzle that made rod leave. If wvu wins they play in the nat’l championship and i dont think he leaves wvu

The pitt guy argument is insane… I agree with chas. you hire the best guy for the job. If there are two equal candidates and one is a pitt guy then you take the pitt guy, but you always want to take the best coach available. Im not a believer that a coach has to be a pitt guy.

Comment by Adam 12.17.07 @ 9:58 am

I think we need a Pitt guy running this blog!! Just kidding. Let’s talk about the Duke game. I’ve sworn off of Football until after the BB season.

Comment by TMGPanther 12.17.07 @ 10:16 am

First, He wasn’t the first or second choice. We really don’t know how many names popped up before they finally landed on Coach Rod. I say this because some of the news report are making this out as a big deal and a positive note for Michigan. The whole recruiting search for Michigan was a mess. I may be wrong but Coach Rod was a safe choice. If it doesn’t turn out, they can get rid of him in three to four years, blame the spread and finally get who they really want. The mighty Michigan Alumni will not stand for more than two years of failure. Michigan will no longer be looking for big powerful running backs. The top drop back quarterbacks will look elsewhere. To change an identity and style of an organization that has persisted for more years than we have been alive is difficult.

You really can’t compare Coach W. to this situation. Coach W. has rings on the college and professional level. He had offers from other colleges when he returned. His ego doesn’t need what pulled Coach Rod from his community. He came to PITT because he loves the University. Pederson stated that when he first became AD, it was Coach W. (then of Chicago) that first took his call. I believe him when he says he will stay until we win a championship (or gets canned).

My reply Chas was how you respected him from a “pure football standpoint”. I not sure exactly what you meant. The coach represents everything good and pure about football. He teaches young men about teamwork, overcoming adversity and life. To be pure is a sense of togetherness. There is nothing pure about him. He lied and turned his back on his players. He made them think there was this great bond and then TOLD A RECRUIT BEFORE THEM THAT HE WAS LEAVING. These kids looked to him as their leader, mentor, and for some a father figure. His first concern was to call a recruit and sway him to Michigan and then oh yea, I better go and break this to the kids and get the hell out of town. I just think a better man would have handled this better. His actions show what he is really about.

Comment by Ironhead 12.17.07 @ 10:23 am

Adam,

What defines the best guy for the job? I think somebody who has passion for the University and an understanding of the community is somewhere on that list.

Brian

Yes….Money does rule in the end.

Comment by Ironhead 12.17.07 @ 10:28 am

Oh yea,

I can’t wait until Thurs game. We have been waiting for this match-up for along time. Hopefully, they make this an annual event.

Comment by Ironhead 12.17.07 @ 10:32 am

While I agree that the discussion of his offense and getting a QB to run it is interesting what about his 3-3-5 defense?

That defense is all gimmick and will not hold up well in the Big 11. It has natural running lanes and would be exploited big time.

Does he keep English to run the D or does he bring in someone to run the 3-3-5?

Comment by Jon In NOVA 12.17.07 @ 11:03 am

Are we playing DUKE Thursday, DUKE, DUKE!!

Comment by TMGPanther 12.17.07 @ 11:19 am

I’m going to disagree with Chas and agree with Reed and some others.

First, there is NO WAY IN HELL dickrod is talking to Michigan instead of preparing for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP – the only reason he did that is because in his mind he’s preparing for “that crappy bowl that even lowly Pitt has gone too recently.” He would have been at practice, not deflating his teams ego with a “let’s win a NC before i leave for Michigan!” speech. Frankly, it’s absurd to think otherwise.

Second, if Wanny is ever offered another job in the pros, i wouldn’t be mad if he takes that – thats a higher level, that makes sense. I would understand. But to screw your ALMA MATER and go to a different college program?!!?? COLLEGE?!?!? If we’re winning at the time, i’ll be the first at his door in the south hills with a pitch fork. There’s just no way he’d ever do that – he’s loyal to our university. And i think he’s a man of enough integrity to realize our university, his university, has been loyal to him. It would take a real piece of shit to do that to their school: and i think that shithole to the south found the right man for the job.

Finally, they all got what they deserved: nothing. F morganhole, F wvu, F their fans, students, families, friends, and administration. May they never win another game, and only be known for what a “quality learning institution” they are…

Maybe Michigan wins, maybe they suck until he’s gone. Couldn’t care less. The only time i’ll be cheering for them is when they pound PSU.

My excitement for next football season just got exponentially bigger. I can’t wait!

Comment by Stuart 12.17.07 @ 11:23 am

I’m in a “Wait & Watch” mode concerning RR.

I think he was stupid to go from a “Big Dog” in the Big East to a “Middle of the Road” coach in the Big 10. Michigan has lotsa talent……… and I’ll be curious whether RR can set aside his favorite “speed” game and retool his schemes to fit what he has. A “GOOD” coach can……… but is RR a “good” coach…..??

It’s not like he’s starting in the basement and can recruit strictly for the future. Michigan wants their future “NOW”

Comment by mtoolmn 12.17.07 @ 11:38 am

SO now to recruiting and RROD leaving….will Pitt get Hayle, who else to finish out their class?

Comment by Matt 12.17.07 @ 11:41 am

It appears Wilson may become available. We really don’t need him at H-back but he is a good LB.

I would think Rich Rod will make a play at Hale. He needs to do something to PITT after we took his opportunity at a National Championship away.

Stuart, I can’t believe that I will also be rooting for Rich Rod when he plays PSUcks.

Comment by Ironhead 12.17.07 @ 11:48 am

I think RR will be successful at UM. Most Big10 teams are similar in style: big, slow OL, power RB, drop-back QB, etc. In Michigan’s losses against A-St and Oregon, they didn’t have the speed to contain the spread offense and athletic QB. Look at the trouble tOSU had against Florida in last year’s championship game. With the recognition of a top 5 all-time team, RR will be able to bring in much better players than we did at WVU. It will be interesting to see if this has an affect on the Big10 overall.

Comment by ME2001 12.17.07 @ 11:53 am

I’m sure I’m not the only one who loves the fact that we seem to be upgrading our non-con schedule every year, but obviously this Thursday is the crown-jewel. While I doubt we can upset Duke, have their coach quit and take the top recruit in the country with him, and sign a haul of solid recruits in the process, it should still be a good chance to make an impact in a way that tangling with Houston Baptist doesn’t really afford us. Here are my thoughts:
* Assuming he stays hot, and he’s looked damn tough in the last two games, I can’t wait to see Levance Fields on Paulus. Obviously Duke players are highly hyped, but to me Paulus in particular has not lived up to his hype. Singler has looked very good, Henderson and Scheyer are coming along, Paulus seems to lack that next-level. I love the way Fields’ role has evolved, to the point that when we’re in a good offensive flow he doesn’t *have* to have the ball, because everybody seems to be on the same page when he’s out there. Wouldn’t have thought this two years ago, but I think Paulus is the shakier of the two, and hopefully we exploit that Thursday.
* Blair on the national stage. This Duke team, like all Duke teams, has enough size and depth to at least put some pressure on the young Freshman, but they fortunately lack the signature inside presence of a Shelden Williams-type. I agree with one of the other posts on this site somewhere that said Duke could make things tough on Blair by getting him in early foul trouble. No doubt about that. Particularly with the way Coach K works the officials — and frankly there’s no one better at it, whether you believe its because he’s legitimately persuasive and obviously a legend in the game or for some reason related to some Duke-themed conspiracy, its definitely a fact — we could be in for a long day. But that doesn’t mean I’m not psyched to see what Blair can do, and if he can continue to spread the word about a Freshman not named Mayo, Love, Beasley or Singler.
* Sam Young. A lot of recent attention has been on Blair and Fields, but I still think for this team to succeed in March, Sam Young has got to be a star. And we’ve seen early this year that he’s capable of it, so this is not necessarily bad news. Particularly if Blair is attacked and the tough Duke D limits our guard play, its Young (and to a lesser extent Mike Cook) that will be the keys. The ability to score from anywhere on the floor and the athleticism Young is blessed with make him an X-factor against even the toughest teams. If Sam Young can establish himself at some point in the first half, even if its late like in the OK State game, its going to make things hard on Duke. I’m also looking forward to seeing Singler’s game when he’s got to put forth maximum effort on both ends. Not to say he’s not capable, but it should be a test for him.
* Jamie v Krzyzewski! No question Coach K is one of the greatest coaches in history. He’s reloaded with Duke, and they’re again a legitimate national title threat. This is Jamie’s best Pitt team. As a coach, these are the matchups you live for. They’re also the ones where you earn your paycheck. Pitt has the opportunity to take a big step forward as a program, and I think it starts and ends with Jamie. I said last year when we lost @ OK City to OKSU that a loss like that could be valuable in March, because there were a lot of lessons there. We’ve started 10-0 or better five years in a row. That’s great, but I worry about how our team deals with tougher stretches, and some of our play down the stretch (like losing the Big East title game to Syracuse) has confirmed those concerns over the years. Free throw shooting, perimeter defense (Chris Quinn anyone?) and other breakdowns late (though fortunately no inbound-pass problems since the Khalid El-Amin game) have played a part in keeping us out of the later rounds of the tournament (whether through contributing to earlier exits, or hurting seeding with losses like St. John’s during the regular season). We seem to have played a lot of meaningful games with this basic cast of characters (Blair being the obvious exception). Jamie knows, more or less, what he’s got. Can he manage this game, in a (probably) hostile environment, against a legendary team, and a Hall of Fame coach, to put us in a position to win? I think he can, but its going to be exciting to find out.
And for anyone thinking playing them close is a moral victory, I submit to you that winning games like this not only gives you a stronger RPI, possible recruiting bounce, and oodles of confidence, it raises the profile of your program. We’ve failed to reach #1 despite being #2 a handful of times over the past 6 years. Last year we were #2, #1 lost, and we got jumped. While it obviously turned out to be correct (UCLA jumped us, and then later in the year proved they were the better team), that doesn’t change the fact that I’d like to open the paper just once and see “Top-Ranked Panthers Crush Seton Hall” or something like that. I can’t say for sure we’re going to win, but I feel like we’re capable of playing with Duke, and that in itself is a pretty big statement. This game is the type of game that can get us where we want to go as a program. Buckle up.

Comment by Maz 12.17.07 @ 12:03 pm

Amen, Maz. Nice analysis and right on target. If they come into the game with confidence and don’t play tight it’s anyone’s game. Hopefully the officials don’t become an issue….that would be a shame.

Comment by 13 - 9 12.17.07 @ 12:22 pm

Agree with the fact that the spread offense has the potential to dominate the Big 11. Illinois did pretty good this year with Juice Williams, the best example of a mobile QB in the conference. Florida trouncing OSU is a great example. That is actually an advantage to PSU though because they have a history of getting pretty good linebackers and d-linemen.

Recruiting-wise, this could hurt UM due to the fact that WVU is not known for putting players into the NFL (Ok, Pacman Jones and Chris Henry…)

As for Wanny, I do not seen him ever leaving PITT for another university, but I do see him coaching in the pro’s once again. I am sure he has numerous ties to owners all over the league. If he is successful at PITT, they will come calling for him just like they have for Pete Carrol.

Comment by Todd Gack 12.17.07 @ 12:29 pm

as for the $4 million buyout. Don’t think Big Blue won’t offer to pay a significant portion of the bill if not all of it. Remember, half is due now, half in three years. Those terms will probably be fixed into his contract as a periodic bonus. What is $4 mil to michigan athletics?

Comment by wannstache 12.17.07 @ 12:44 pm

Just my two cents: I don’t see Wanny leaving Pitt for another College job – EVER…He may leave for another NFL job, that’s called a promotion and more power to him…What RR did is just plain sleazy. Basically, he pulled the same stunt that Benedict Howland pulled at Pitt. And I am going to have the hubris to say that RR saw some writing on the wall. The Pitt/WVU game this year was no fluke. Just because RR refuses to give Pitt any credit, it does not mean that our players did not out play theirs – which is exactly what happened. And, it will happen again next year if they run the same offense under a new coach. Bottom Line: We have more talent on defense than they do on offense and that fact is not changing any time soon. RR has to know that.

Comment by HbgFrank 12.17.07 @ 12:46 pm

If Michigan is the dream job for all coaches, then why did Greg Schiano turn them down? They say he is waiting out Paterno. He must know something that we don’t.

Comment by Ironhead 12.17.07 @ 1:05 pm

First, *playing* duke gets the big RPI bounce (as opposed to a 10-20 team), winning will only add around .25(1/30) + .50(1/900), or .0088, as opposed to losing. That wasn’t even enough to drop the #1 rpi to #2 at the end of last year. This is just a fact, not saying we shouldn’t try or anything, please, no bunched panties.

PSU vs the spread: Seriously? They lost to Illinois this year. As others have in the big televen. The spread, with the correct athletes, could destroy PSU and the others – they’re just not fast enough to deal with it. They all agree on boring football, except for that pesky Illinois. I’m happy about this.

Which leads me to this: it will take time before he wins at Mich – IF he wins. He has to dump their NFL atheletes and big ten athletes and get guys that can run his system. He may not even make it long enough to get a full turnaround – it is quite possible that they get impatient and dump him in a year or two if he doesn’t win. And then they have to switch back to a pro system – holy crap, he could set them back a decade. Or maybe he gets it done, who knows. I don’t care. As long as they beat PSU.

Also, why would you want a coach that doesn’t get your athletes in the NFL? WVU puts no one in there – and they get 3* guys too, just like Pitt. We turn our 3* kids into NFL prospects – so maybe our system isn’t the best for college at some times, but it develops the kids better than gimmick offenses. I don’t understand why Michigan is giving up on that – i’d think pointing to NFL success is one of the reasons Michigan still recruits well.

And what dickrod did was worse than Howland – this was Ben’s alma mater – yes, i’m still pissed he did it and the things he said about our university (much like what dickrod is thinking – “i’ll never win here”) – it hurts more coming from one of your own. What he did was totally fuct up, and i couldn’t love it more.

Comment by Stuart 12.17.07 @ 1:33 pm

And he’s not coaching the bowl game either. The line is bumping up, its up to -8 in some places now.

I really thought WVU was going to win the game, like against Georgia 2 years ago, but i’m not sure at all anymore.

Comment by Stuart 12.17.07 @ 1:37 pm

WVU football coach Rich Rodriguez, his family and two members of his coaching staff boarded a plane at the Morgantown Municipal Airport, while a handful of hecklers shouted insults about his decision to leave the Mountaineers for the University of Michigan.

Rodriguez walked up an icy sidewalk toward the plane Sunday without commenting, even as four WVU law students called him a traitor and a disgrace to his home state. Following close behind Rodriguez was his assistant head coach/offensive coordinator Calvin Magee and defensive backs/recruiting coordinator Tony Gibson.

Dressed in a light, long-sleeve T-shirt, J.B. McCuskey, 26, shouted through the fence at Rodriguez, “I am disappointed that a West Virginian disrespects not only his own state but the mandates of his best friend Gov. Joe Manchin, who is trying to keep jobs in West Virginia. We don’t like outsourcing here. Good riddance.”

Shawn Fluharty, 23, stood in the freezing weather and yelled, “You might have been born a Mountaineer, but you are no longer a Mountaineer. You have made a whole career off of Pat White’s juke moves. You’ve been outcoached by Pitt’s coach Dave Wannstedt; what do you think Ohio State coach Jim Tressel will do to you?”

Ben Price, 25, an Ohio State alumnus, taunted Rodriguez by hurling the school’s cheer – O-H-I-O – at him.

“You are getting beat next year by the Buckeyes – get used to hearing that in Columbus,” he said.

Even as Rodriguez’s plane was lifting off the runway, Ben Evans, 23, stood on a balcony overlooking the tarmac and yelled, “Rod, will you split your fat new paycheck with Pat White – as you built your career off him? You are an embarrassment to our state.”

Comment by Stuart 12.17.07 @ 1:38 pm

Stuart,
You’re right, of course, with RPI. My point was more in terms of perception. When we were a highly ranked team two years ago playing UConn, who was also highly ranked, we played very well and lost. It was initially perceived as a sign that Pitt was for real that year (our long run as an unbeaten had been ended by St. John’s I believe, and it was argued that we hadn’t beaten anyone other than Wisconsin @ the Pete), but ultimately the perception that stuck was that we weren’t *quite* there. That’s basically why I was trying to make the point that WINNING is so much more critical than just being in the game. Your point about RPI is well-taken though, and should be all the incentive we need to schedule similar matchups in the future.

Comment by Maz 12.17.07 @ 1:49 pm

Someone mentioned in a earlier post that all coaches are looking to coach at the next highest level, and hopefully reach the NFL ranks…This argument does not explain why RR leaves WVU for UM…..If he fails to beat OSU and has 3 or more loses in each of the next 2 to 3 seasons he’s looking for another job and he already burn the bridge to go back home….Also, RR is not a NFL type of coach….He runs a spread offense, which doesn’t work in the pros……Where is he go once his tenure is up in Michigan?…..He had a future in Morgantown, and was building a tradition within the program……RR is a true college style coach, and the college coaching ranks is the highest that he’ll achieve. Bad move to leave WVU for UM.

Comment by jumpingjohnnie_class82 12.17.07 @ 1:51 pm

Personally I think RR will do very well at UM. We have all seen that the Big-10 has been unable to deal with fast, spread oriented offenses. Look at Ohio State’s loss to Fla., the Illini’s success in the league this year, and UM loss to App. State, who won the bowl subdivision this year and could be a really good I-A team. If RR lands Pryor he will have the QB to run his offense and could run through that league. The Big-10 has always been predicated on strong D, and I think in the modern game this is too their detriment and keeps the best offensive players away from their schools. RR will change all that.

Comment by dan 12.17.07 @ 2:58 pm

Maz – i concur.

Dan – he may do well after he changes personnel, if he’s allowed to stay that long. Who knows if they’ll show the patience to allow him a few losing or mediocre seasons with the current personnel, like we (barely) did at Pitt. If allowed enough time and gets the right guys, yes, he should do well for the reasons you state.

I just don’t think their recruiting will stay as good – who wants to go play for a coach who doesn’t prepare you for the NFL? We talk about App State and WVU and Navy winning games with gimmick offenses – the reason they do that is to make up for a lack of skill – at Michigan he should have the skill – why keep up the gimmicks? Keep getting your QB killed? How’d the work out for Oregon? Makes no sense to me…

And about the buyout – some rich booster(s) will pay that off for him, just like they did for Beilein.

Comment by Stuart 12.17.07 @ 3:15 pm

Any word when Holley will make a decision?

Comment by Ironhead 12.17.07 @ 3:39 pm

Stuart,

Ben Howland is a graduate of Weber State, not UCLA. He took the job partly to be closer to his parents. I have no problem with that. Sadly, his dad passed away shortly after he arrived.

Comment by Greg 12.17.07 @ 3:46 pm

can someone tell me what TOS is? i keep reading about how much they or it sucks.

Comment by wannstache 12.17.07 @ 4:07 pm

Howland said the only job he would have left Pitt for is UCLA. I don’t know if I believe him. Pederson needs to extend Dixon now. He is doing an unbelievable job and is the antithesis of Rodriguez. It would be devastating to lose Dixon.

Comment by Omar 12.17.07 @ 4:10 pm

And think about this – If pitt doesn’t beat wvu, LSU never makes it to the title game. Les Miles won’t be playing for a national championship, so he entertains the idea of leaving LSU because he’s not worried about screwing up the team a few weeks before some consolation bowl. Instead, he passes and is focused on the NC, because we put him in the NC game.

DickRod does it instead – he has no NC to worry about.

The more you think about, the more convincing it is that we caused this to happen. Maybe Les Miles is at UM right now…and DickRod is at practice…

Comment by Stuart 12.17.07 @ 4:11 pm

TOS means the other site.

Comment by Omar 12.17.07 @ 4:11 pm

figured it had something to do with rivals, but i could figure out what that TLA (three letter acronym) stood for.

Thanks Omar.

Comment by wannstache 12.17.07 @ 4:16 pm

For those of you who are still ticked at Ben Howland for leaving..get a life.

We owe a ton of thanks to Howland. He brought our BB program to a level nobody even thought possible. He left all the assistant coaches here, which is not common..which enabled us to hire Dixon (see what RR is doing..WVU is going to be have to be coached by the ballboys in the Fiesta Bowl since RR is taking most of his coaches with him).

And Howland left for arguably the most storied college program in the country which he just happened to grow up living right next to the campus and his parents still lived. If he didn’t take the UCLA job he would be an idiot and frankly I wouldn’t want an idiot coaching the team anyway. We had one once (Evans) and look how that ended up.

Howland laid the ground work for a great program that is still top ten 5 years later and will be for a long time. And now we have a coach in Dixon that, unless Pitt screws up somehow, will be here for years. Why be mad at Howland?

Back to Chas comments about DW. Couldn’t disagree more..DW is here until he gets fired or quits. He’s not going to chase the money.. For every jerk like RR there are coaches like Coach K, Joe Pa, Eddie Robinson, Dean Smith, Pete Carroll, Jim Boeheim and Bobby Bowden…all those guys at some points in their careers had oppurtunities to chase the dollars but decided to stay with their schools.

If DW is winning and the higher ups at Pitt don’t screw it up somehow (which we all know they have done before) he’ll be the Pitt Head Coach.

Comment by section 125 12.17.07 @ 4:24 pm

Wannstache — TOS is “the other site” which you’ll probably see on the Scouts and Rivals message boards when talking about the other site.

As Eric Kusilias said on Mike & Mike in the Morning today, there are 3 reasons when a coach can rightfully leave:

1. End of contract — Rich Rod’s contract was not done.
2. Going to you home state/school — RR is actually LEAVING his.
3. You are getting an “upgraded” job — so the question becomes… Is UM an upgrade over WVU?

Comment by Dennis 12.17.07 @ 4:27 pm

Whenever a coach contemplates leaving for another college (or NFL job), there are many factors to weigh pro-and-con. There is a hierarchy in college football, and Michigan is at or near the top (along with ND, USC, TOSU [that’s THE Ohio State University, btw wannstache]). Pitt isn’t quite there, but it is a step above a place like WVU.

Coaching is like any other profession; there are those on the way up the ladder, and those on the way down. Staying put on a particular rung may be a great decision (family, security, etc) whether you’re an accountant or a coach. But the reality is, WVU is nowhere near the top of the ladder, and Michigan is.

It’s a good idea for a place like Pitt to hire an alum because it gives that coach a reason to NOT leave when faced with the possibility of a more prestigious job, or more money, or easier recruiting (like a job in Florida). WVU is in a weaker position to keep a coach once they start to build a good national rep; RR being a home grown guy gave him one reason to stay, whereas a guy like Bobby Bowden bolted from Morgantown as soon as a better offer came around.

Michigan has the prestige, and the money – no doubt RR’s base salary is not the whole story. Michigan will always be stocked with talent, but WVU needs the stars to align perfectly (like this class). Under Nehlen, they were very good once every 4 to 5 years, but in between they were mediocre. That’s because they’re WVU – no home grown talent, small and impoverished local population/alumni fan base, no history or prestige. Nehlen did well with Pitt and PSU’s leavings, but table scraps and guys like Pac-man and Chris Henry are all a guy like RR can really look forward to recruiting.

I am a little suprised he chose this year to leave, with White and Slaton (and practically the whole starting 22) coming back next year. But if you look at the jobs that are considered steps up from WVU, the likelyhood of one being open at the end of 2008 is slim. Michigan is available right now, and it doesn’t get much better than that. Thus, I can see why he’s jumping now.

If RR waits until 2009, WVU’s recent run of good fortune is exposed as the fluke that it is, and his stock tumbles. All that means is RR would get to stay and live like a king in WVU until he’s ready to retire, but clearly he doesn’t want that. He’s young and ambitious, and WVU is too small to keep him around.

Comment by Patrick 12.17.07 @ 4:49 pm

I stand by my thoughts regarding Wannstedt. A key to me is to look at the age of DW and the other coaches that are jumping around (RR, Saban and Petrino for example).

DW is 56 years old and has done just about everything their is to do in coaching football with the exception of being a HC of a NC team – but he was on the staff of one. He has Super Bowl Rings and NC rings. He is not looking at climbimg to professional ladder any longer, but now is looking at two things – having a legacy in his home town and retirement. Remember – DW opted not to come to PITT when the search was on, PITT offered him the HC job and we got Harris – that was about 12 years ago and I think he felt he needed to make his nest egg elsewhere. In 2004 it was a different story.

The other guys are in their mid-forties and are still looking for that professional validation and retirement/estate money. RR especially – he really has done nothing of substance but coach WVU. So, these guys that are in their 40s and in the years of really making their money are going to chase the Golden Ring, and I can’t really blame them for that.

As far as it being all about the money? Not always, there are stories every year about someone turning down other jobs to stay where they are – Schiano did it last year alone.

No, I truly believe that DW has had his time at the top, has won his championship rings to signify his worth to the profession and now is happily ensconced in exactly where he wants to be.

Comment by Reed 12.17.07 @ 5:12 pm

Michigan is providing RR a $2.0M interest free loan to meet the August payment to WVU .
No one leaves their alma mater for another school only a scum bag !

Comment by Marty 12.17.07 @ 6:16 pm

Wear gold to the game Thursday if you’re going…this per rec of nyc alumni assoc.

Comment by scoocher 12.17.07 @ 6:24 pm

I hope they can him after two years so that he has to send his entire salary to WVU and has earned nothing.

I agree with the age thing with Wannstedt. I just can’t find any reason, except for a NFL job, that would make Wannstedt leave. They’ll have to fire him, or he’s too old to coach.

Comment by Stuart 12.17.07 @ 6:25 pm

all this talk of Wanny leaving. after the bears and the dolphins, no chance he gets back to the NFL as a head coach unless he wins 10+ games for a few years and Pitt is a perennial top ten team. This is likely, but Wanny does not have the rep in the league these days. besides, you think he wants to deal with a bunch of whining professionals?

Comment by wannstache 12.17.07 @ 6:42 pm

I CANT HELP BUT FEEL THE PAIN FOR OUR BRETHREN IN “ALMOST HEAVEN”. TO BE LEFT AT THE ALTER BY THEIR NATIVE SON IS TOO MUCH.

PITT SHOULD BENEFIT FROM THE UNPREDICTED WEAKENING OF A WVU TEAM THAT SEEMED TO HAVE A STRANGLE HOLD ON BIG EAST FOOTBALL. MAKE FOR A MORE COMPETITIVE GAME AT HEINZ FIELD NEXT SEASON.

AS FOR MICHIGAN, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR… AS THEY SAY “GOD DON’T LIKE UGLY” AND STEALING A B-BALL AND F-BALL COACH FROM THE SAME SCHOOL IN ONE YEAR WITHOUT AT MINIMUM ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO TALK IS….. WELL, THUMBING YOUR NOSE AT THOSE FOLKS DOWN THERE IN “ALMOST HEAVEN”.

Comment by Pitt Alum 12.17.07 @ 10:54 pm

Rumor has it that Terry Bowden’s on the short list for RR’s replacement. Apparently, according to ESPN radio (I think, it may have been Fox Sports radio) he called it his “dream job.”

Comment by Shawn 12.18.07 @ 3:04 pm

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