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March 23, 2011

SPRING PRACTICE – “QB OR NOT QB”

Filed under: Uncategorized — Reed @ 10:37 pm

THAT IS THE QUESTION…

Note: This is a follow up article to the one posted here on March 17th talking about the four QBs on the roster…

We love our Quarterbacks in Western Pennsylvania. We love them in high school ball, we love them on the Steelers and we love them at PITT.  We also love to throw them aside the second they make mistakes or when a contender is on the horizon.  The battle cry for PITT fans is “Bring on the Backup!”  We hear it every single year and while it is frustrating to some – it is what football is all about to others.

This year is no different than any of the last few years when we had heated arguments about Stull and Bostick in 2008, Stull and Sunseri in 2009, Bostick, Myers and Sunseri last season, etc.  From the last snap of the 2010 bowl game PITT fans started speculating on just how well our starting QB Sunseri did and started discussing how Bostick and/or Myers could do much better in 2011.

Pat Bostick simplified this question for us a bit by removing himself to the greener pastures of Graduate School and professional internships leaving the crux of the argument to revolve around the incumbent starter, rsJR Tino Sunseri and the newcomer and gunslinger rsFR Mark Myers.

There are valid points, both pro and con, that can be offered on each player.  Let me make a personal note here – I was vehemently opposed to how Dave Wannstedt handled the QB situation from the end of the 2009 season until the opening game at Utah in declaring Sunseri the starter way before the spring practices for the 2010 even started.  There was never a valid or open competition conducted and IMO it hurt the team and the anointed Sunseri.  I do not think Coach Graham is doing that this season at all. But I was very critically outspoken of how Sunseri got the job then.

After watching Sunseri play every meaningful snap in 2010 fans now have a basis for compliment or complain… and they are strong and varied.  The most common ones I’ve noticed are that “Sunseri did well for a first year starter” and “He did as well as Stull did his first year” or conversely “Sunseri was too nervous out there and can’t throw the deep ball at all” and “He’s hit his ceiling with the talents he has”.  But one thing that has been shown, no one comes out and says “Sunseri did a great job at QB last season“.  The remarks are always qualified somehow.

Obviously I’m paraphrasing here and simplifying, but let’s go on anyway.

Sunseri’s situation is indeed eerily like Bill Stull’s after his 2008 season.  We won games but had the distinct feel that those games were won ‘in spite’ of the QB’s play, not because of them.  It isn’t too far off to say the same thing about Sunseri’s results in 2010.  Then, Stull made a great jump in progress and production from Year 1 to Year 2 and we all were satisfied with his play.

So, then this begs the question of “Will we see the same progress from Sunseri this season and if not, then why not play Myers?”  It is a large and looming topic at this point in the preseason.

I think we all, save a few hard core Sunseri critics, want Tino Sunseri to be able to improve from one year to the next if he starts again.  Coaches talk about the fact that having that first year of experience helps greatly towards the year after.  We did see how Bill Stull progressed from 2008 to 2009 as it was rather dramatic.

Back in the summer training camp days of 2009, before Stull’s good senior season, I wondered about how Mike Teel, the productive Rutgers QB, did in the beginning of his career… I picked Teel because IMO he was physically pretty much like Stull and had the same type of team surrounding him – especially in the years I am discussing here.  Teel’s first year of starting was in 2006 where he had almost identical numbers to Bill Stull’s 2008 production.

So let’s look at that comparison and throw Sunseri’s first year of starting up against those two past All-Big East QBs also:

Here are all three players’ starting seasons and the second years for Teel and Stull’s statistics. Note: This is between Stull’s JR & SR years, Teel went on to have a third, SR, year where he did very well: (Edit Note: I screwed with the tables for an hour… live with it.)

MIKE TEEL:

YEAR          CMP   ATT     YDS    CMP% YPA  LNG   TD      INT    SACK    RAT

2006               164      296      2135    55.4       7.21   74       12        13          7          120.59

2007               203      349      3162    58.2       9.06   69       20        13          7          145.73

BILL STULL:

YEAR            CMP   ATT    YDS    CMP% YPA   LNG  TD     INT     SACK   RAT

2008              188      330      2356    57.0       7.14   64       9          10          25        119.88

2009              209      321      2633    65.1       8.20   79       21          8          15        150.60

Remembering what kind of pushback PITT fans were giving Stull after his poor 2008 season, now we wonder if Sunseri could make the same type of improvement himself… You can see from the above that both Teel and Stull made pretty dramatic improvements from their 1st year starting to their 2nd.  Sunseri’s first year was statistically better than Stull’s was no doubt.

TINO SUNSERI:

YEAR            CMP   ATT    YDS    CMP% YPA LNG   TD      INT     SACK     RAT

2010               223      346      2572    64.5       7.43     79        16         9        23          137.0

I don’t know the answer here regarding Sunseri’s chances at improvement and a wildcard is that Sunseri has to deal with a whole different offense between his first two seasons.  But it is too broad to dismiss him out of hand when thinking ahead for his second season either.  It is very possible that this High Octane offense can play into his strengths as his accuracy was based on short, quick passes – on which the new offense thrives.  However,  his deep ball HAS to improve to be the well-rounded QB Graham wants, as does his field ‘generalship’ IMO.

Now, throw in the large and valid potential we have in Mark Myers and the QB race gets very interesting.  There are some tangible aspects to this kid that just flat out jump out at you.  His size for one; 6’4” and 235 pounds is prototype for a QB; his arm strength is the talk of the town with a very accurate deep pass and we are finding out in dribs and drabs that his mobility is impressive for a guy his size also.

I had a conversation with a long time PITT fan who attended many PITT practices last season and he couldn’t stop praising this kid, going so far as to say “PITT hasn’t had a QB with tools like this since Dan Marino.”   Take that for what it’s worth as third hand info, but it is high praise indeed.

But what we don’t know about Myers is valid also and that are the intangibles such as grasp of the offense (important!)  and his poise under pressure during game time situations.  Granted he hasn’t had a chance to show us that either so the jury has to be out with that. Let’s hope that Graham is holding true to his word and will ensure that Myers get a chance to show what he’s got with the 1st string offense and under playing pressure.  This kid may be too good to not give him every chance possible.

Both QBs have impressive HS pedigrees in playing for state championship teams and both look to have competitive fire in their approach to the job at hand.  What may be the determining factor for the OC and Coach Graham could be the ‘intangible’ aspects of the players. How well the kids handle the mental and emotional aspects of quarterbacking in his offense for instance.  This can’t be overstated especially given that every other player on offense will be experiencing growing pains with the offensive changes and there will naturally be confusion and doubt in the huddle at times. The QB will have to be a firm hand of guidance out there.

I don’t know what the future holds.  I have to think that it is proper for the HC to give Sunseri every opportunity to hold onto that starter’s position.  At the same time I personally hope that Graham doesn’t shy away from the risk of making a change if he sees grand rewards in doing so.





Teel racked up those 07 numbers against teams like Norfolk State and had Ray Rice to boot. They went 8-5 and should’ve lost to Pitt (last minute PI call in endzone, remember? What is it with refs and Pitt???)

In fact in 06 RU went 11-2.

I appreciate the stats, Reed, but I think the main stat is winning the big games, not the cupcakes.

Comment by steve 03.24.11 @ 6:18 am

All we can ask for is a true, open competition. If Graham does this; hopefully it translates into the best players on the field and more wins than loses.

Comment by Pittastic 03.24.11 @ 6:52 am

Stats are fine but to me Sunseri does not pass the eye test. I keep hearing that Myers throws an accurate deep ball. While there may be more growing pains, it sounds like he has more upside.

That being said, Coach Graham will pick the best man for the job.

Comment by gc 03.24.11 @ 7:10 am

FWIW, Myers didn’t play for a state championship, he was a backup as a junior for a team that won it.

Nonetheless, unless the QB is undeniably the best QB, then the backup is always the fans’ favorite even though chances are never played under pressure … i.e., Sunseri in 09 and Myers this year.

I agree Bostick should have been given a chance to compete last spring since Tino hadn’t proved anything up to that point, but I also think that the coaches are going to play the QB that gives the team the best chance to win.

The open QB competition now is due to (1) a new staff coming in, (2) a new offense being installed, and (3) two highly-rated redshirt freshmen being available … and if Tino wins the job, there will still be many doubters on this site … it’s just the nature of the beast.

Comment by wbb 03.24.11 @ 7:41 am

Anthony Gonzalez, who was not mentioned in the article, did play and win the state title as a junior. Not only did he both run and pass (some completions to Devin Street) to help the cause, he also intercepted a Bethel Park pass in the endzone to end the game.

Reed, If this is truly an open competition, then Gonzalez should be in the mix.

Comment by wbb 03.24.11 @ 8:29 am

Pitt recruit Jaylen Bond misses state semi final game with Chester with hip , groin and back injury.

Comment by alcofan 03.24.11 @ 8:29 am

Excellent analysis of the current situation, but don’t leave out the wild card here, Gonzalez, if this open competition factor is legit, he’s in the mix too. But the fact is “Pitt Nation” as Graham has apparently anointed us Pitt fans to be referred as from here on out, really doesn’t give a rat’s ass who QB’s this team, as long as we start winning the games that we’re supposed to and we learn how to take care of business on the other games that we should at least be competitive in, in the first place without constantly shooting ourselves in the foot and looking like a**holes on national TV, puking out loses with our inferior play. I think we’re all sick of that after last year. So please just bless us with somebody who can run Graham’s system competantly and get this show on the right path to victory and we’ll all be happy, Tino, Mark or Anthony, makes no difference to me.

Comment by Dr. Tom 03.24.11 @ 8:30 am

Great read Reed.

Comment by WC Steve 03.24.11 @ 9:15 am

Steve – I used Teel and Stull only to make the year1 to year2 comparisons in progress.

I do think Gonzalez is in the mix but I’m wondering if it’s winnowing down to two guys. Hard to know with little actual info. But, the main point of the post was supposed to be whether or not Sunseri can make that jump in progress like most other QBs do after their first year of starting.

I do think if there is an actual competition (fingers crossed!) that having three QBs in the mix is better than four.

Comment by Reed 03.24.11 @ 10:03 am

Dr. Tom – you paint great visual imagery with words. Are you a Doctor of Divinity by any chance? if so, your sermons must rock.

Guys – sorry about the stats tables, just couldn’t get them to work so I gave up on it.

Wbb – I too think Sunseri gave PITT the best ‘chance to win’ last season. My heartburn was the way it was handled by DW from January 2010 on by announcing Sunseri was the starter so early and the message that sent to the rest of the team. It’s the height of hypocrisy to tell every other kid on the roster that if he busts ass competing for an OPEN starting position he has a chance to win it… save at the OPEN QB position.

Comment by Reed 03.24.11 @ 10:08 am

Quarterback play has been problem for most of the Wannstedt years. The exceptions being Tyler Palko who he inheirited from the Walt Harris years and Bill Stull’s final year. Harris did a terrific job with his quarter backs and Wannstedt did not. I think Dave Wannstedt improved the overall talent and particularily the line play, but fell short in bringing in quarterbacks with the abilities to perform at necessary level. The quarterback is the most importaant position on the field and although the running backs, the linemen, defensive backs, linebackers are all important, you don’t win without a good quarterback.

Comment by Justinian 03.24.11 @ 10:41 am

JUSTINIAN, the irony is that Wannstedt still got criticism for not opening up the QB competition to Joe Flacco even though Palko had such a great sophomore year as a starter (and a great career overall.)

Reed, you will note in my above post that I did think that last year’s spring practice should have been opened up to include Bostick

Comment by wbb 03.24.11 @ 10:59 am

Nice summary and comparison. The Stats help. Stat generally don’t lie but what they don’t always tell the entire story. What Sal Jr. lacked was the ability to be a game changer. We were always praying that he didnt make a mistake. Now some of this might be immaturity but it is there.

Clearly experience matters in college football and from this perspective Sal Jr gets the nod. In many ways it is his job to lose and rightfully so. Myers is physically impressive and clearly there is lots of talk about his “big arm”. The unknown, as was pointed out, is his poise and ability to move along the learning curve quickly. Good news is that Buffalo and Maine are first up so we will get a fair shot at seeing both QB’s I am sure.

The other notable is that this “high octane” football is built on quick strikes and running up the score so we should see a lot of players getting time. This was the biggest disadvantage of Dave W. He never developed the next player (particularly the next QB). My guess is that High Octane Graham will do this.

Comment by Pitt fan in Atlanta 03.24.11 @ 11:34 am

Why not play both QB’s?

Comment by POLE 03.24.11 @ 11:57 am

Tulsa’s QB was the 2nd leading rusher on the team last year, so one way or another, we may well see much play byr 2 or either 3 QBs this year.

Comment by wbb 03.24.11 @ 12:29 pm

Pitt Fan – stats do not tell the whole story for sure. here is a good case in point. Sunseri had two monster games right in the middle of the season – SYR and RU where he threw seven TDs. That is great and should be commended.

However if you look at what that leaves for his other 11 games the numbers tank rapidly at 1983 yds @ 180 YPG. Then he had nine TDs with eight INTs over those games also. Very pedestrian all around.

In the five “big games’ threw for 204 YPG with four TDs and five INTs.

That’s why he should in no way be consider a lock as the starter.

Comment by Reed 03.24.11 @ 1:16 pm

From all I’ve listened too, I believe Graham, and I will believe that whoever is picked to start, will be the best qb we have.

If it’s Tino, so be it.

I was 50/50 on him last year. At times, I thought, “ok, nice going”, and at others, “what the hell”.

Did not like that he was picked without comp.

No question, his deep balloon ball was horrible.

Graham wants to win, has no behind the doors buddies here, whoever he picks, I’ll be good with.

Also, with wanting to win, and if the competition is close, he will not be afraid to make a change.

Hopefully, somebody grabs the bull, the offense clicks in one of their minds, and there is a clear starter.

Whoever the coach, and staff pick, I’ll be behind!!!

For awhile, anyhow!!! LOL!!!

Comment by Dan 03.24.11 @ 1:18 pm

I am sure also our Texas legen …

dary QB coach will have a lot of insight as to who should win the starting job.

Comment by A 03.24.11 @ 2:21 pm

A – that is a great point and overlooked. The more I read about Coach Dodd the more impressed I am.

Dan – at the very least, if whoever starts and is faltering – and Graham makes a substitution, we’ll be way ahead of where we were the last few years.

I too think Sunseri could do real well in this offense, as I do with Myers also. But IMO Sunseri would have to make some definite strides in some areas to really be the complete QB Graham wants though.

Comment by Reed 03.24.11 @ 3:41 pm

I respect Sunseri’s grit, but how do you teach someone not to wobble a 20 yd pass? If you play to his strengths and limit those deep balls, aren’t we just limiting ourselves?

These and other questions will be answered…stay tuned.

Comment by Cool Hand Nuke 03.24.11 @ 3:50 pm

I am sure also our Texas legen …dary QB coach will have a lot of insight as to who should win the starting job
(comment by A above and supported by Reed)

You do realize that Coach Dodge was a legendary high school coach but fired as Head Coach at North Texas after a record of 6 and 37.

link to chron.com

Hopefully, this new coaching staff comes close to measuring up to the great expectations of everyone on this site.

There is eveidence of a high school coach becoming a great position coach in D1 — Joe Moore was hired out of Upper St Clair by J Sherrill to become possibly the greatest OL coach ever … so who knows … I would caution, however, about seeing miracles overnight.

Comment by wbb 03.24.11 @ 4:19 pm

I can’t see Sunseri doing well in a quick read and react type of offense. The guy does not have the brain, the arm, or the legs to play well in this offense.

wbb, I think you are referring to the same “everyone on this site” that will be pining for Bradley after the 3rd game. We need to be patient!

Comment by steve o 03.24.11 @ 9:01 pm

it will be sunseri wheres bobkat

Comment by paul shannon 03.25.11 @ 8:28 am

WBB– Maybe it is true that some people have high expectations. My comment was borne out of excitement about the unknown. Enthusiasm is a completely legitimate feeling to have at this stage.

The fact is, no one knows how the upcoming season will go, so your cautious (and, dare I say, often negative) outlook is just as potentially incorrect as anyone else’s high expectations. I hope that “everyone on this site,” as you unfairly generalize, is right and you are wrong.

Yes, I am aware of his college record. My comment was limited to the notion that a man with Coach Dodge’s experience will have some valuable insight in evaluating the talent at the quarterback position.

Comment by A 03.25.11 @ 1:17 pm

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