November 10, 2017

9:00 CBSSN (it’s a real channel, dammit).

I’m sick. Have that whole mucous running down the back of my scratchy throat, stuffed nose, bloated head feeling. It’s probably just a cold that has been long overdue.

And yet…

There was this game yesterday…

I’m not saying that Pitt’s performance last night against UNC is responsible. I’m the the first to say that correlation does not equal causation. I’m just not willing to rule it out either.

So, Pitt basketball. Are you the cure for what ails me? Are you going to temporarily make me feel better even as I don’t go to bed early like I should?Just to stay up and watch you?

In other words, I’m using my not feeling well to half-ass this open thread.

Hail to Pitt.

Get well soon, Chas.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 8:01 pm

You’re in deep trouble Chas…

Comment by Jackagain 11.10.17 @ 8:36 pm

Texas A&M smashed the hoopies in Hoopieland, 88 – 65

link to

Comment by Jackagain 11.10.17 @ 8:45 pm

Germany is Hoopieland?

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 8:49 pm

Lappas and Rothstein calling the game CBS Sports.
I actually like them both.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 9:13 pm

Two 3 s for the juco.

Comment by Alcofan 11.10.17 @ 9:24 pm

Navy better guard JWF.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 9:24 pm

I could be mistaken, but Pitt does seem to be giving effort on defense.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 9:32 pm

Carr looks pretty good

Comment by Nick 11.10.17 @ 9:40 pm

Brown running the floor.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 9:43 pm

Luther with good work on the boards.

Comment by Alcofan 11.10.17 @ 9:54 pm

Good thing Luther stayed…

I have to say I kinda like this team. Stallings may get something going in a couple years.

Comment by Jackagain 11.10.17 @ 9:57 pm

I did not realize that Carr could shoot.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:00 pm

We’re making a lot of mistakes and can’t run, but I see some skill. These guys may be decent in 2 years.

Comment by Jackagain 11.10.17 @ 10:02 pm

Nice to see Carr can shoot FT’s.

Comment by Jackagain 11.10.17 @ 10:04 pm

LOL. Mighty Navy. This turd will be fired never winning more than 15 games with 8 bought victories.

Comment by Upittbaseball 11.10.17 @ 10:07 pm

WOW. Pitt has a chance to win this game.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:07 pm

Better than I thought….

Comment by Jackagain 11.10.17 @ 10:07 pm

Too many turn-overs.
Too many defensive possessions that the rotations are too slow.
I don’t think those problems are because of lack of effort or ability. I think those issues are something more reps should help.

Overall, they are playing much better than I expected.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:14 pm

I like this team more than last years already. Plus got some more good recruits coming in. Cam didn’t play for UNC tonight personally I hope he broke his leg! Hope they pull this one out

Comment by Steve h 11.10.17 @ 10:17 pm

Pitt 9 turn overs navy 6.

Comment by Alcofan 11.10.17 @ 10:21 pm

From what I heard, it was his neck (sprain).

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:21 pm

Terrible start to 2nd half.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:31 pm

Lucky to be only down by 11 at the 12:00 TO.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:41 pm

Paul evans????????

Comment by Alcofan 11.10.17 @ 10:42 pm

Luther is not good.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:48 pm

Awesome block by Stevenson.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:54 pm

The CBS play-by-play guy is awful.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 10:55 pm

W-F can’t shoot FT’s…

Comment by Jackagain 11.10.17 @ 11:12 pm

I will give this team time to get more experience.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 11:17 pm

Definitely XF

Comment by Steve h 11.10.17 @ 11:23 pm

Looks like the the two Nigerians are going to red-shirt.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 11:23 pm

From what I saw, tonight, I think that they might score an upset or two this year.
I expect a losing record, but not as bad as I had feared.

Comment by xfmrman 11.10.17 @ 11:32 pm

So odd to read this box score and play by play last night…all these strange names still! And to see the positions in the box score…7 guards and 3 forwards!

Comment by DD 11.11.17 @ 7:13 am

Glad I didn’t bet UPitt we’d win 12 games.

Comment by Gasman 11.11.17 @ 9:21 am

Well, as we all knew, it’s going to be a tough season…Speaking of tough, I like this team. We have a couple of “big east” bodies on this team…They play defense, they hustle…I agree with xfmrman, this team is going to pull a few upsets on hot shooting nights…live by the three, die by the three…H2P!

Comment by HbgFrank 11.11.17 @ 10:32 am

Losing to a Service Academy and people see positives. Enable Rockports all you want as he steps your money.

Comment by Upittbaseball 11.11.17 @ 10:37 am

PS: I am sure I’ll get blasted for this, but I loved Shamiel Stevenson’s flagrant 2 at the end of the game…the dude he introduced to the floor was a bit of an ahole….That one play sends a message to our future opponents, when you play Pitt have your post game ice tubs ready….Anyone see a little Sir Charles in Stevenson? He is listed at 6’6, 230, but he looks more like 6’4, 250. Kids just a FR, can’t wait to see him and the other FR developed over a few seasons.

Comment by HbgFrank 11.11.17 @ 10:42 am

I also liked Stevenson’s foul -that Navy kid was a jerk. This team is going to lose most of their games and get crushed in some. If they continue the effort then they have a chance to grow. I don’t often agree with UPItt (at least in the language) but to put things in perspective, this was the first time since 1971 that Navy beat an ACC school. Still saw things to like with these kids.

Comment by AnotherClancyrebound 11.11.17 @ 11:53 am

There are things to like if younpay this jackass 300k. Not 2.5M. For that your paying to win. Not for puppies and soft blanketsa and kool aid.

Comment by Upittbaseball 11.11.17 @ 12:28 pm

I had fun watching the game. It was odd not knowing anyone and not having any real expectations. The team never quit. I’m confident the last couple of iterations of Pitt basketball would have.

On the road against a veteran team that will be close to 20 wins this season is a tough assignment for 11 new players. Craig Meyer had a nice write up in the post about how this amount of turnover has only happened twice this century. The first couple years for both programs were not pretty. IU ending up in a Sweet 16 in year 4, however. So it’s possible. Not sure I can trust Stallings to get Pitt there but it’s not unprecedented.

The only two players that I was disappointed in happened to be the two returning players. Go figure. I did like Stallings giving Milligan the nod as the starter as a shout out to his family’s connection to the Navy. I’m not sure I’ve ever used class act with Stallings but that was pretty classy.

I guess Parker Stewart was a little bit of a let down but he passed the look test. Good form and in position. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and let him grow into his role.

I loved Stephenson elbowing the kid. Some fight we haven’t seen a few years. Going forward, teams will be trying to get him to snap though. He just drew a big target the rest of the season. Hopefully, it was isolated or intended to send a message vs. hot headedness. I guess we’ll find out. A little crazy can be a good thing though … If you can control it.

Carr passed the look test. He looks like he’ll be a legit ACC PG. Wilson-Frame will have a nice season. I’m a little worried he always goes right. The announcer picked up on it too. Hopefully, it’s not one of the bad habits Stallings mentioned because it’s pretty glaring.

I’m not worried about the free throws. I think they’ll proved themselves a good free throw shooting team.

They are going to get pounded inside all season. That’s just the reality of this roster and will be their achilles heel. Next season, they’ll get some much needed height but it’s going to be tough in the paint for the foreseeable future.

Overall, it was a much more athletic team than I expected. As the announcers mentioned, for the most part, they ran the offense really well. They’ve been listening to the coaches. That much showed.

They struggled on defense, which I guess is to be expected. I didn’t see anything that was super concerning though. I’m willing to bet by the end of the year, it’s a much better defensive team than we’ve seen the last couple of years. That’s admittedly not saying much though.

I think it will still be a struggle to get to 12 wins but the team will be competitive against the bottom half of the ACC.

Dokish had a pretty reasonable tweet this morning about fan expectations. With the amount of new players, expectations should be tempered to steady improvement this season. Next year, it’s not unreasonable to expect an NIT birth. In year 3, the NCAA’s. He, obviously, hasn’t met Upitt.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 11.11.17 @ 2:46 pm

Stallings is stuck with a total re-build. The 2 Dixon holdovers are no help either. Well, I guess Luther does get some rebounds and seems to hustle.

The recruiting will be interesting though. I’m more optimistic now than when Dixon was at his height…and that is a sad commentary on Dixon’s recruiting game.

Comment by Jackagain 11.11.17 @ 3:34 pm

I agree TT, and I’m going to be patient with Stallings (if he can recruit) and look forward to when he gets his big men in place. Carr looks very good though, and it always starts at PG.

Comment by Jackagain 11.11.17 @ 3:38 pm

Jackagain – I can’t say I’m a fan of Stallings but after last season was the time to let him go since they would rebuild anyways. That ship sailed so unless he goes full jackass I’ll give him a shot. I have to admit that I like the kids he brought in. There is some hope … but it’s a rebuild. Make no mistake about it. This will be a couple of years.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 11.11.17 @ 4:12 pm

After thinking about last night’s game, the lack of experience of the Pitt team and the wealth of experience and composure of the Navy team was likely the difference.
Navy’s players were trash talking all game. Their ability to draw fouls by Davis, Shamiel and even Kene’s lone foul showed the immaturity (inexperience). This is an issue that can be solved, in and with time.

I too agree that giving hard fouls is something that has been sorely missed since Coach Dixon started recruiting more athletic player for the ACC.

Comment by xfmrman 11.11.17 @ 4:28 pm

Wait, Luther’s line was 14 points with 8 boards (2 offensive), 4 assists, 1 TO and 2 steals. He was first or second on the team in points, rebounds, assists and steals and he was a disappointment?

@Jackagain you contradicted yourself on Luther in this very thread. You’re glad he stayed but he’s no help? Deep conflict?

Apparently the extremely low bar really makes things seem very favorable. Pitt lost by 9 to a Patriot League team that was 16-16 last year and 10-8 in conference (an 1 bid conference). Pitt was beaten on the glass and shot 29% from 3 on 28 attempts. Navy shot 42% from 3. However Pitt passed the eye test and everybody sees a bright future?

Stallings CHOSE the rebuild. He didn’t have to sign the kids he signed last year if he didn’t see the fit. He proved this year that he had no
problem signing guys into the summer. He also made no effort to develop the guys he inherited last year. He barely played them in the non-con.

I’m not sure what the great recruiting outlook is about. JWF is a junior who apparently likes to shoot a lot of 3s, not rebound and turns the ball over. Parker Stewart, who had the rep as a shooter, was 0-5 on 3s. Carr played 31 minutes and had all of 4 assists (to tie Luther).

TT and Jackagain are the anti-Upitt! Dokish is a total homer. It’s completely misplaced to use him as a benchmark for a reasoned outlook.

Comment by Barvo 11.11.17 @ 4:54 pm

Very anti-Upitt. To infinity … and beyond, anti-Upitt.

This season was always going to be a rebuild. Maybe not to the extent it’s ended up being but Dixon or no Dixon, 2017 was going to be a fresh start with a bunch of kids leaving the program.

Barvo – did you watch the game? The box score doesn’t give you the full picture. It’s more about 11 kids playing together for the first time and not only resembling a team, but looking like they’ve played together for a while. I do not like Stallings but his staff did a good job getting these kids ready for the season. That was pretty clear.

Yes, JWF shoots a lot of 3’s. If’ he’s going to hit about 40% of them on the season … that’s perfectly acceptable. No, I wouldn’t expect a lot of rebounds or assists from him … he’s going to be Pitt’s #1 scoring threat after all … but he also plays hard on defense. If he scores and plays defense, I’m fine with the rest of the team picking up the rebounding. Besides, he’s a shooting guard … emphasis on shooting.

Luther’s stats don’t tell the entire story. He was very uninspiring, especially for being the senior leader on the floor. He’ll be fine but the other kids definitely have upside you don’t see with Luther. He’s playing out of position at the 5, so that’s part of it. I get that. But as far as being a leader on the court, he was clearly 3rd in the pecking order behind Carr and JWF. That’s not what you really want when he’s one of two returning players and the only one out of those two that will get significant minutes.

It was game 1 with a completely new team on the road against a veteran team that will probably win 20+ games this season. Let’s see if they build on it. Based on what I saw, I think the team may be more competitive than I realized. I enjoyed watching the game. I liked the flow of the offense. The hustle on defense. They were outmatched down low … and will be all season. But I was surprised how much I liked the team.

All things considered, Pitt played pretty well. I’m not really concerned with what the box score says … yet.

Dokish is a homer. No doubt … but he’s not wrong here.

Just read Craig Meyer’s piece. He’s not a homer …

link to

Indiana, St. John’s and Colorado all lost 11 players from a squad the previous season.

1st year records:

IU: 6-25
St. Johns: 13-19
Colorado: 7-20

I’m not sure what other expectation you should have, Barvo.

I’m anti-Stalling but we’re stuck with him. At least this season, most likely next the two seasons as well.

I’ve just accepted that.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 11.11.17 @ 5:59 pm

Miami putting a hurting on Dome
.I don’t see one-look Dinuzzi having much success.

Comment by Gasman 11.11.17 @ 9:51 pm

Looked to be about what a lot of us expected…like a .500 non-con team and maybe 2-3 wins in the con. I would like to be wrong (in the right direction) of course. I personally give Stallings a 5% chance to have a tournament team in 3 years. I am not a fan of his. That said I don’t see having something remotely positive to say here as “enabling” him. That gives us Blatherites WAY too much credit. Nothing we say means jack. Personally I’ll support Pitt and see if they have any hint of significant growth…besides, isn’t it clear what Stallings did? But cleaning house, he now has protected himself for 2 more seasons. Really. We cant blame him now for a bad season this year, or a mediocre next year. I mean, we CAN, and SHOULD, but it won’t change the reality that he is not getting canned any earlier than AT BEST the end of next season and only then if next season is a 2 win conference season…and even then Pitt might not can him.

Comment by DD 11.11.17 @ 10:19 pm

I’m not a Stallings fan at all but a housecleaning doesn’t look like a bad thing no matter who was coming in to coach. Who left that looked like a real ACC level player? Not many. I can’t imagine any coach would want to start at a power 5 level with the kind of roster Pitt now by choice. Stallings is going to get a few years now pretty much no matter what. I’ll cheer for them and look for the effort and growth.

Comment by AnotherClancyRebound 11.11.17 @ 11:39 pm

Go back and look at Stallings Vandy reams…always out boarded and played mediocre defense on their best days. If they hit their 3s, they win, if not they lose. Pitt under Stallings will be no different no matter what talent is on the floor.

On a positive note, the team is in good physical shape. Tough to go against a well played matchup zone in your first game.
Maybe the best point guard play I’ve seen on a Pitt team in years. Still 4-20 is about what to expect.

Comment by Dan 72 11.12.17 @ 12:18 am

TT and Jack and Dokish – Enjoy your 8 wins and 5k crowds at Pete. This 90 year old pappy haircut Rockport salesman is a embarrassment. Thank God for him Heather knows as much about sports as Herman did. Bums and the talent wouldn’t start at Pitt Johnstown.

Comment by Upittbaseball 11.12.17 @ 10:30 am

Dan_72 – No one is defending Stallings. Well maybe a few, but not many. Pitt didn’t fire him this offseason tho. He’s here at least this season and most likely next, as long as he doesn’t go full jackass. I doubt his contract is renewed but with no expectations I doubt he goes “off the rocker” either. It’s time to accept the reality of the situation and hunker down for a bit.

After watching the Navy game, I do like the kids he brought in, however. Easy group to root for. When you’re going to be bad, that’s all you can hope for. Kids you feel good about cheering for and hoping they develop and progress.

Clancy – A housecleaning was definitely in order. This is the first rebuild in 20 years. It was probably overdue. I wish Stallings wasn’t in charge of the rebuild but if he can build a solid base, which it appears he has, then all is not lost. In just the first game, it was a refreshing attitude on the court. Who knows if that holds up with the beatings they’ll take but it was refreshing nonetheless.

Upitt – I will. I enjoy rooting for Pitt. I’m not drinking any Kool Aid either … I just like my school. Pitt hasn’t sold me on a vision since I was first a student in 1993 … it’s not really their strong suit. Through thick and thin, I’ll be right there. Maybe I’m a glutton for punishment but I love my alma mater. HTP!

Maybe it’s because I’ve had enough luck/success with my other teams I played for or follow that I don’t have that void some seem to have. I just don’t get that upset. During, and immediately after a game? Sure … but the feeling doesn’t linger. On to the next game or season or sport… and I’m always looking forward to it.

If you don’t like Pitt, stop pretending to care. I’ve never understood that about you. Most people who get down on Pitt here and the POV do it because they care. You just don’t care though. You don’t watch games. You don’t attend games. You’ve just developed this odd camaraderie (that I can’t fathom to explain) with other grumpy posters. Most of those other grumpy posters care though so I at least respect what they have to say. And they, often times (okay most time) do have some validity. You do too, unfortunately. But your’s ring hollow. There’s no substance to them because it’s coming from a troll. They’re just empty barbs that mean nothing and might as well be coming from WVU or Penn State.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 11.12.17 @ 11:35 am

What makes u think we will average 5K?
I suspect it will be less, especially if the losing continues.
That said, i like Stallings and want to see this play out.
HCPN, on the other hand, with his stop-the-run defense and burning Pickett’s redshirt, but not playing him, is by far more of a troubling enigma.
Perhaps the Vols might have an interest in him and will take him off our hands.

Comment by Gasman 11.12.17 @ 3:16 pm

This will affect football recruiting around loi day in Feb. Lackluster crowds during beat downs from top 20 acc teams.

Comment by alcofan 11.12.17 @ 4:18 pm

LOI is before Christmas now.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 11.12.17 @ 5:25 pm

Maybe Heather can tarp off some of the Pete

Comment by Gasman 11.12.17 @ 7:28 pm

Barvo, I said, quote: “The 2 Dixon holdovers are no help either. Well, I guess Luther does get some rebounds and seems to hustle.”

BTW, another 4* player for Stallings. On a last place ACC team and he already our recruits Dixon.

link to

TT, Barvo is just still butthurt over seeing his boy Dixon leave. So he hates Stallings by default, even though Dixon left on his own and Stallings had nothing to do with it.

Comment by Jackagain 11.12.17 @ 11:20 pm

We tried to get a top coach to come here but all good ones said no. Do you really want to see Lyke’s search committee send out feelers now? Wake up people….Dixon was a guaranteed loss in the first round when he made the Tournament. At least when he left here. Zero to look forward to if he stayed.

Dixon left the cupboard bare for Stallings, so it is what it is. My hope is Stallings can get better players to come to his system at a better ACC team without the academic requirements that Vandy had.

Alcofan, it isn’t going to matter because kids are souring to Narduzzi and he can’t coach or recruit.

Comment by Jackagain 11.12.17 @ 11:31 pm

Jackagain – I was on team Dixon too and I advocated for Stalling to be fired in the offseason because the timing was perfect with the mass exodus and it being a rebuild anyways. When that didn’t happen, I accepted the reality of the situation and will give Stallings the benefit of the doubt. It will be a short leash but as long as he doesn’t go jackass again I’ll most likely keep composed. So yeah, maybe I got over it and Barvo didn’t. I stand by I liked what I saw from the team vs. Navy though … regardless of that Navy/Miami score. Lol.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 11.13.17 @ 9:11 am

That’s fine TT and I can’t blame you or other Dixon supporters here since he won in the BE and ran a clean program.

But misplaced aggression complex against those wanting change here is misplaced indeed. Of course Dixon was among us who wanted change, so….

Good luck to him in TCU, but he was in a rut of bad recruiting (HS players knew why) and post season failure made the BB season a bore for most. Even the individual games were getting boring IMO.

Comment by Jackagain 11.13.17 @ 4:08 pm

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