(I have written this post about 6 different times and ways to different lengths and seen it crash and delete for some glitch or another each time over the last week plus. Somehow bypassing all the autobackups that are supposed to prevent loss of posts. I think even my computer does not want to process this matter any longer, but we will get through this.)
Come on training camps. We need you. The cycle of crap returned to this issue.
Apparently it started with some SEC-related whining about Notre Dame needing to join a conference all the way if they want to be a part of the College Football Playoffs during their media days. (Gary Pinkel of Mizzou, of all people and places, started this for reasons that no one really can fathom.)
Naturally it just went from there with all coaches being asked about it. Especially at ACC media days a week later. And of course, the ACC coaches were all very much behind the idea. Because, well, it seems that if Notre Dame should decide to join a conference before 2027, their deal with the ACC stipulates that it has to be the ACC.
Now for those of us from the Big East, this should seem really, really silly. We’ve seen this show. We know that as much sense as it seems to have ND be fully in a conference — it isn’t happening.
You can throw out the reasons of their deal with NBC. All the money they rake in. You can also toss the Domer arguments that they want to be able to have their national schedule with USC, Navy, Stanford… yada, yada, yada.
You can also toss the arguments out the window that if ND gets left out of the playoffs a couple times in the next ten years it would force their hand.
Really, it is something very basic. The whole idea of ND remaining a football independent is so fully and deeply a part of the ND psyche and identity. From the school, to the alum, to the subway alum to the casual ND fans. It feeds into their self-inflated identity. It is a tangible piece of evidence they can cite to justify their claims and belief of exceptionalism.
And yes, money plays something of a role, just not the money from TV as an independent vs. conference. The school is very much aware that a move to a conference would lead to numerous butthurt deep pocketed alum and pretend-alum not giving money for a while in protest if they made the move. To say nothing of the entire leadership of the school finding itself out of a job within a few years if they made a conference move.
BYU? Their own coach is openly begging for a Power 5 (*cough* Big 12 *cough*) conference to take them for a couple years. Along with his AD, openly defying/challenging the leadership of the LDS who made the decision on independence as part of the larger mission for BYU. Granted, it won’t happen since no Power 5 conference is going to take BYU when they won’t do anything on a Sunday. They don’t supply nearly the positives to be worth that much of a hassle and headache.
Back to Notre Dame, though. The demands of coaches — who have zero say in this stuff, yet constantly get asked about it — somehow sparked more expansiopocolypse talk.
Frank the Tank — who has been one of the most level-headed and best people to read on the subject — even found himself engaging in the speculation. He starts with the discontented rumblings from Oklahoma and has to pretend certain realities can be ignored.
I don’t position this blog as a newsbreaking site, but I have heard from a knowledgeable person with extensive contacts with current and former Big 12 members (i.e. knew specific details about Nebraska heading to the Big Ten and Texas A&M to the SEC beforehand that couldn’t have been simply guessed from the news) that basically had this to say: Oklahoma isn’t happy with the Big 12 and wants to get out.
Putting aside all of the valid issues of whether the Big 12’s grant of rights agreement can be broken or whether Oklahoma could politically leave Oklahoma State behind (both of which need to be cleared before any moves are even possible), it doesn’t seem as though OU wants to stand pat. David Boren’s comments about wanting Big 12 expansion with the “right schools” was more of a warning shot to the rest of the league because, frankly, the “right schools” wouldn’t ever take a Big 12 invite. As a result, everyone in Sooners land seems to agree on the overarching desire to leave the Big 12, but there are two mindsets within the school: the academic wishes of Boren and the athletic interests of OU Athletic Director Joe Catiglione. (Emphasis that these are currently mindsets that could take years to play out – please don’t interpret anything here as “Oklahoma is leaving for Conference X by the end of the year.”) Boren, not surprisingly, wants a more academic league, but it seems as though his focus is more on the Pac-12 as opposed to the Big Ten as of now. That’s not to say that OU wouldn’t consider the Big Ten (as it did in 2010), but there are still apparently concerns that the B1G would find OU to be academically acceptable. In contrast, the Pac-12 would like Oklahoma if they came with, say, Kansas. The West Coast league just doesn’t want an OU/Oklahoma State expansion (which is what OU had offered back in 2011 in the wake of Texas A&M bolting the Big 12 for the SEC). Meanwhile, the athletic side of the school would relish going to the SEC. Once again, the SEC would take Oklahoma in a heartbeat without Oklahoma State coming along. The SEC would likely prefer Kansas, as well, provided that the biggest dog of them all of Texas rejects their overtures.
The phrase “impotent whining,” comes to mind with regards to Oklahoma and this. The chances of Oklahoma being able to leave OK State behind for another conference is a near zero. Not with T. Boone Pickens cutting checks on behalf of the Cowboys. Not with the politics of the state. Then toss in the idea of Kansas also being able to leave K-State behind.
But wait, let’s up the crazy…
The Longhorns aren’t oblivious to their rivals to the north. In a perfect world for Texas (as described to me by my Big 12 guy), they would want to join the ACC as full members with… wait for it… Notre Dame. Apparently, the UT people are convinced that the new College Football Playoff system will eventually drive the Irish to join a conference and Texas wants to be right alongside them. In turn, UT would also have Oklahoma and Kansas follow along to create an 18-school ACC behemoth. Texas would be fine with the same type of move to the Big Ten (although Notre Dame is contractually obligated to join the ACC if it chooses to drop independence until 2027, which would seemingly make that prospect impossible). The new Texas leadership doesn’t have the West Coast preference that their leaders circa 2010 had, so any new deal with the Pac-12 seems to be out. At the same time, the SEC continues to be simply a non-starter for the Longhorns.
I mean… an 18-team ACC? At that point, isn’t it really just two conferences operating under the same name? Even if the ACC went up to 9 games, you would still only face a team from the other “division” once every 9 years on the schedule. It is insane on its face.
To be fair to Frank, in the next graf he dismisses the Texas idea as sheer delusional based on the ND part alone. And this isn’t his idea of what could/should happen. Merely a “dream” scenario from Texas POV. Yet it sparked the madness of, well, maybe it could happen.
And it is a delusional scenario. When the Pac-12 nearly got Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech along with Oklahoma and Ok State as part of their Pac-16 plan, you saw Baylor go balls out politically to fight this. Now imagine Texas politics if just Texas tried to leave. Baylor, TCU and Texas Tech political allies would all be lined up to scuttle this thing. To say nothing of Texas A&M working against the Longhorns out of pure spite.
Okay. I’m done ranting meaninglessly on this. One final bit though about the last cycle. Former WVU AD Oliver Luck finally spoke honestly about some of the crazy that led the Hoopies to the Big 12.
While Luck is aware of the options he had at his disposal, he’s also aware that there are those out there that still believe another conference that was a better geographic fit was a very real opportunity. Luck may not have said it, but I will. It was the Big 12 or it would have been the American Athletic Conference. To think there was something better is foolish, particularly those who still want to believe that the ACC was actually an option or that other conferences were just waiting for us so they could pounce at the right time.
It wasn’t the case. Luck said as much.
“I think it’s accurate to say the ACC was never an option and all you have to do is go back and look at the history of the ACC and WVU’s history with the Southern Conference. The ACC changed its membership four or five times and never was WVU in the discussion and never invited,” said Luck. “ … When the most recent discussions were taking place, there was zero opportunity with the ACC — none.”
I know, shocking, WVU message boards and bloggers were making shit up.
And by culture, that means acadmeics. Plain and simple. Louisville was the toughest stretch for the ACC, but WVU would have been a bit too far.
The other thing to note in there was their opportunity with the SEC — which is very believable.
“The SEC was a little bit different. Missouri took a long time to decide what it wanted to do and I think they were on the fence for six, seven, maybe eight months. Some thought Missouri was waiting for an offer from the Big 10 or may stay in the Big 12,” said Luck. “Had they stayed or had they become a member of the Big 10, we may have had an opportunity – and I emphasize the word maybe — to be in the SEC. The thing is nobody really knew what would have happened. What we do know is that Missouri’s move closed that door.”
I mean, who else would the SEC be able to grab at that point that wasn’t an urban school, not in duplicate territory and reasonably within the geography? Iowa State?
If you reach back to that time, Mizzou had their politicians begging the Big Ten to take them with or instead of Nebraska. They really wanted that invite, and were waiting until the very end to choose the SEC when they realized the B1G wasn’t interested.
Finally, Luck had some things to add about the Backyard Brawl.
“He [former Pitt AD Steve Pederson] and I talked about it a good bit and even exchanged potential years when we could play. To be fair to Pitt, and no Mountaineer wants to be fair to Pitt, you have to understand their position at that time where they’re transferring to the ACC over a two-year period,” said Luck.
Pederson said WVU was a third priority behind Notre Dame and Penn State, according to Luck. Notre Dame was first due to what Luck said was the Fighting Irish’s arrangement “or whatever proper term it is” for its ACC relationship. Luck said once Pederson would figure that out he was agreeable to consider it, but both are ADs are now gone and recent rumblings between the two coaches make it look like the Backyard Brawl is going to be the Backburner Brawl.
“I don’t think Steve wanted Notre Dame and WVU on the non-conference schedule in the same year and that make sense…”
Oh, and just for fun, someone asked a former Hoopie player and coach — now running things in Arizona — about the Backyard Brawl and renewing it during Pac-12 Media Days. Even he knows the reality.
RichRod: “Pitt used to be a four-letter word for me. If I’m at WVU I want to play Pitt. But if I’m Pitt I want to play Penn St. first.”
— Joe Schad (@schadjoe) August 2, 2015
believe me, if some wealthy alum or a group of boosters gave $$$ to the paper, you’d see all sorts of favorable coverage.
i’m with you Reed.
players represent their school when not on the field. their actions have consequences. when you bring dishonour to the school and program, there is punishment. i’m all for 50’s style punishment if it means a good ass whoop but these days you’ve got to take away internet privileges to get through to some of these kids.
PSU and WV just doing a better job of PR.
It doesn’t help when Romoff pulls the papers from the hospitals, no good will from that.
The Press should have no allegiance to anyone, just report the news.
Fan allegiance has to be earned over time. Pitt has been spitting in the eye of its fans for thirty years. Same thing with the Press, they won’t buy in until they see results, not just happy talk.
Problem is,yes, there was coverage in the 60’s but maybe a story a week, certainly not more than the local team.
Second, and more importantly, since when do stories need to come from the university?? They seemed to have no problem at all finding a story on Blair or Boyd did they?? Those were not released by the school!!
Bottom line is that this is in fact all about a pissing contest and until we become so relevant on the field we can’t be ignored this will continue! Truly, follow the money!
And seriously, Pitt is going to ban someone?? How could we have poorer coverage than we do now??
The even bigger problem for Pitt is the SEC and B1G networks that are on 24/7.
Rori’s digression appeared to be more serious but PN had said it had been handled so I took that at face value. My argument there was to have faith in the coach.
I’m fine with both decisions. It’s what the school decided and I said I would accept what the school doled out. I lashed out at those of you that automatically jumped to the conclusion they should be suspended.
I’m much more flexible in punishment when it’s momentary lapse of judgement. Shit happens. They’re young and I’ve seen much worst from the general student population.
Kids with character flaws are what disrupt team chemistry and and have to be enforced with a heavier hand as those kids are the ones that usually bring more teammates into the fold. When you have a cluster of kids arrested or in trouble at once. The instigators of those types of situations have to face the more severe consequences. The bad seeds as we say.
What this circles back to is treating each case individually. Blanket punishment is bullshit in my opinion. Plus they don’t have representation to fight for what should be acceptable punishment.
When I commented on Zeis comparing the discipline of Chryst vs. PN, I knew that would fire you up.
The topic was discipline but this was more just me further questioning HCPC about everything he did for the program. At the end of the day, I think HCPC was meh for the program. I, personally, don’t think being average is righting a ship. Great, he brought high character kids into the program. It was a low risk, low reward philosophy and it showed on the field.
2010: 8-5 (Wanny)
2011: 6-7 (Graham)
2012: 6-7 (HCPC)
2013: 7-6 (HCPC)
2014: 6-7 (HCPC)
Tell me again, how that is righting the ship? Because kids didn’t get in trouble? Cracks me up every time.
Wanny was fired because he and SP could not co-exist. The SI article was the excuse SP had for pulling the chord. It wasn’t the catalyst. Wanny just finally gave SP the reason to do it.
Both PSU and WVU started camp last week, therefore more stories. Pitt starts this week. You’ll see more Pitt stuff. WVU and PSU football are more popular right now so they’ll get more coverage. Stop taking it personally, it’s just $$$$ talking.
Now, if you say PSWho limits stuff and Audrey Snyder is a shill for the school I agree.
The message is much easier to control in State College, or if you have a reporter who edited the PSWho sports section, or if you have a sports editor who attended PSWho.
I really don’t spent much if any time watching either of those networks as I could care less! Kids on the other hand probably do, so yes, that’s a concern.
These issues we are talking about directly affect the school and it’s athletic and academic future. I sincerely believe Gallagher and Barnes are well aware of this and as a very interested party am looking forward to how they respond!
I can understand HCPN not wanting his preparation publicized, but isn’t that a necessary part of the recruiting process? Is his recruiting plan only based on personal contact, and Pitt press releases? Oh, and wins?
Maybe he’s relying more on social media than on traditional media. I’d sure like to understand his approach. Any input?
I may be wrong, but it seems you need all the publicity you can get! The old saying – “bad publicity is better than no publicity”!
6-2 and out of Lynchburg (Va.) Virginia Episcopal School, Kithcart also has offers from Charlotte, East Carolina, Old Dominion and others.
He is ranked as a three-star prospect in the 247Sports Composite
We live in unique area with three Power 5 teams, got even more unique a couple years ago, now having a team in the ACC, Big 10 and Big 12.
I don’t know if there is another area in the country like this???
Not giving the Post-Gazette a pass, honestly, I really don’t read it, and don’t have their app on my phone.
I’m more of the Tossing theory, their camps did just open up ahead of ours, I think you’ll see more stories this week.
I might agree that the Post has a bias, if the sports editor is from PSU, still, like it or not, they do have fans here.
If there are 4 on PSU this week and none on Pitt, I’ll buy into it a bit more.
I listen to the knuckleheads on 93.7 for most of my news, and of course blogs and such.
I don’t like all of the sports personalities on 93.7, but as someone who has it on is his office and car 24/7, I can honestly say that
they give plenty of Pitt football and basketball talk during the fall and winter.
Yes, even in the fall, amongst Pirates being relevant again, Steelers starting out and Penguins right around the corner,
the Fan 93.7 still talks about Pitt and the previous game, upcoming games, big games, stats during the week. Every groups of hosts bring them up quite a bit actually.
Maybe I shouldn’t have even commented on the Post-Gazette as I haven’t seen it in years.
Pitt?? Huh??
Not being flip either, maybe I missed something you guys are talking about, that threw me for a loop.
morning.
Zeise had his son on for over a 1/2 hour earlier this week.
If you really want to hear a lot about Pitt football and basketball, try to listen to Paul Zeise, he always talks about Pitt.
Especially hoops, he even does some beat reporting, gives reports from his drives to the away games.
The station has actually turned it into somewhat of a comedy routine, because he is always in a snow storm, getting a parking ticket, lost his pass for the game, and he calls in live.
Guess he’s a pretty big dude, and always disheveled!!! LOL That adds to the bits.
I’m sure most of you know this, but for some out of towners, you can get the station on your computer or smart phone, for free, very easily.
No shill for the station, just very satisfied with their Pitt coverage, if that’s what your looking for.
I do have the Trib app, I like Joe Starkey. He talks about Pitt a great deal on the radio.
And………..of course, I get most of my Pitt info right hear, from the articles, the comments, the banter and the links people provide.
—– Man, Charlie Strong (formerly kicking Pitt’s butt at Louisville, of course) has to build-up a Texas program that is very bit the level of Pitt amidst the Haywood+Graham+Chryst 3 year nightmare.(We’re talking THE, Burnt-Orange, “Pinnacle of College Football University of Texas at Austin).
Texas has UNLIMITED Money, Facilities, Fanbase, Fan-Passion — the ultimate Pinnacle in all-fronts of what a college football Program needs for top Success —- yet (sound familiar??!!) They struggle to go 6-6 the last few years and are losing bowl games!
The main issue at Texas has been pretty bad QB play — a la, Tino Sunseri for 3 miserable years, Deer-In-Headlights, Happy-Feet Ball-‘Patter’ Tom Savage for one year, then ‘Da Shrimp’ last year.
Everyone does remember a 2 year stretch with Bill Stull where the team magically transformed from $hit*y (5-7) to pretty darn good (9-3, 9-3) to promptly $hit*y again (7-5, losses to 6-6 Utah, of coursing getting embarrassed at UCONN, CRUSHED at home by 7-5 Miami and WVU, etc.)
—– Jim Chaney was also brought in by Pat Narduzzi because he’s a “Quarterback Whisperer”
***(tutored 3 NFL QB’s at Purdue — Drew Brees, Kyle Ortone, & Curtis Painter — his one QB at Tennessee Tyler Bray is an active roster NFL QB who left UT after Chaney’s boss was fired —- and Chaney squeezed the absolute most out of Arkansas’s really not-good QB) ***
@ “Tossing Thabeets” you said before that no one need stress about the quality and improvement of the Defense — I agree!! I think Pitt’s Defense will soon become a lightning-quick, Ferocious, and Exciting group of the likes Pitt fans haven’t experienced before.
All the “Credit” being given to the offense being good last year and “Doing enough to win” is Hooplah.
All Chryst did was recruit offense. All he did was stockpile O-lineman. And two future long-time NFL Players —- T.J. Clemmings who will be a Pro-Bowl level long term NFL starter and at least long-term 2 deep player Matt Rotheram were both inherited and were seniors. The younger O-lineman where huge, athletic studs up there even after Artie Rowell got hurt next man got-up and killed-it.
Tyler Boyd is a National Mega-Star who will be in National Nike ads by this time next year. J.P. Holtz and Scott Orndoff are huge and athletic with great hands who would be starting at top D-1 programs all over the country. Dontez Ford is 6’2” and athletic player but honestly how many opportunities did he get to catch balls?
Ford made a huge play in the Duke game when he came-back to snag a totally prayer of a Duck that was just thrown up. He caught 3 balls out of how many targets?? lol
This offense is Freakin’ “STACKED”, just like it was last year. If this offense isn’t putting up points it’s an Utter Travesty — and even though Chryst put all of his Energy and Resources into building the Offense it gets so much credit for last when, however it should have been a juggernaut.
To be Pitt has a “Pulled-Hamstring” like it has for the last 5 years —- QB Play — let’s fix that come Monday!!
Hail to Pitt!!! 🙂
Did the ACC secretly go after psu and did that cause the b10 to get md and rut?
People are complaining there isn’t enough pub for Pitt … oh wait. Hold on. What’s that? Oh wow … Pitt got two puff pieces today on Connor and Rowell. Must be start of camp time. Lol.
… And when there is pub it’s negative. What some of my fellow Pitt fans don’t realize or understand is that the reason the papers “only” write about the negatives under Pitt is because that’s what Pitt fans expect. We tend to expect the worst instead of the best so the media indulges us.
“Wait and see”, “Same old Pitt”, “Pitting” … A lot Pitt fans are self loathing and only latch onto the negatives. To a point, I get it. The last 30 years and all. At some point though, you just have to get over yourself. WVU and PSU have been better programs for a while now. Stop being jealous. It’s a fact. There fan base embraces positive news instead of ignoring it and waiting for the shit to hit the fan.
Both schools have a ton of alumni in the area. In PSU’s case, maybe even more. WVU and PSU will get piece of the pie when it comes to headlines. Pitt improving will shrink their pieces but neither school’s alumni are going to evacuate the city anytime soon. Heaven help us, we’ll have to share the front page.
Not only does Pitt have to share the city with the Steelers, it has to compete with WVU and PSU for market share. I get how it weighs on us and just makes you shake your head. The only way to steal headlines is to become relevant again. You’ve seen it with basketball. They were basically the Lakers for a while. Steelers, Pirates, Tomlin … all sitting front row. A who’s who of Pittsburgh congregating at the Pete.
Pitt has not had the proper administration to fix this stigma … until now. So if you want headlines fellas start pumping some positive energy into the program. The administration is doing their damndest.
By the way, Pitt gets plenty of positive publicity during the offseason. A segment Pitt fans expect the worst so they don’t even notice those stories.
When two high profile players are arrested though, it’s going to make the news … even if it’s WVU or PSU. In this case, Pitt and the players handled themselves well. When shit does hit the fan, you have to hope it doesn’t escalate and it hasn’t.
So two dui’s for our guys where no one was harmed versus a 15 year old girl was somethinged! We won’t ever know the true facts, but these incidents don’t seem to be the same. Is Beamer trading off sins for wins?
Seems to me that should warrant an expulsion from school. And some serious jail time.
What is this country coming to !
I see as much support for WVU as I do Pitt. Go figure…