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February 12, 2014

Rebounding, Injuries and Shooting

Filed under: Basketball — Chas @ 8:35 am

It’s been  rough couple weeks for Pitt. The losses to Syracuse and Duke. The aching misery of the Virginia game. Two OT wins that almost felt like losses because of the competition. Compound that with Talib Zanna and Lamar Patterson battling injuries.

Of course it could all wash away with a stirring victory over the #1 team in the country tonight.

We still don’t know the nature of Patterson’s thumb injury. Just that he is sitting out practices and that Pattterson has claimed that it won’t need surgery.

“We’ll see. He hasn’t been put in a game-like situation, so you never know,” Dixon said of Patterson’s thumb. “It feels good when he is walking around and having lunch, but playing in a game is a little different deal, so we will have to see.”

Oh, good. I was afraid the situation might be nebulous or something.

As for Zanna, he is getting better. He was a little more mobile on Saturday. He is needed because Pitt’s rebounding has suffered, and we all know where Coach Dixon likes to point out is a problem when Pitt is struggling.

Dixon demands a plus-10 margin from his Panthers.

“The thing that sticks out to me is the rebounding part,” Dixon said. “We’re not getting it done in that area. Talib’s not where we want him to be — and I’ve got to play some of the other big guys, too. That’s something I’ve recognized, as well.”

After leading the ACC in rebounding earlier this season, Pitt has dropped to second in rebounding margin (plus-6.5). The Panthers have been outrebounded by an average margin of 6.8 the past four games, giving up 17 offensive boards to Miami and Virginia Tech.

“We normally don’t lose on the glass,” Pitt shooting guard Cameron Wright said. “You’ve just got to go out and do it.”

The offensive rebounding allowed to other teams has been the big standout in the struggles. Letting teams get those extra chances have been a big part of having to play 3 OTs in the last 2 games. Miami and VT aren’t good shooting teams, but keep giving them more shots and eventually some have to fall.

Syracuse doesn’t rebound as well, especially with their zone. But they are a much better shooting team, much more skill.

One of the things, perhaps even more than the rebounding, that Pitt needs to do is shoot better. If Zanna is feeling better with his ankle, the potential for him to have a big game in the middle of the Syracuse zone is huge. That is as long as he finishes. In these struggle games (and the loss at Syracuse), Pitt seemingly has left a slew of shots short. Bunnies. Missed lay-ups. Just shots from close range that are only drawing iron. Finish inside. Take advantage of the soft spots in the zone and the rebounding issue is also reduced.

Finishing inside also opens the perimeter for penetration. Syracuse will pack it in even more so than usual with their 2-3 zone. Daring. Tempting Pitt to take 3s. But if Pitt is able to move the ball to the inside guys. Get the passes right and Zanna (and god-willing he finally snaps out of his funk) Mike Young are finishing, then the guards have to extend the zone to cut off passing lanes more. Giving the guards more of a chance to attack. Things that are better for Cam Wright, Jamel Artis, James Robinson and Josh Newkirk.

I will say that I have come to enjoy the cranky grandpa role that Syracuse Coach Jim Boeheim has been playing to the hilt the last few years. Here’s his response to why Syracuse has had such trouble beating Pitt at the Pete.

“You know why? Because they’re good,” Boeheim said. “That’s really hard to figure out. They won the most games in the Big East, if you recall, in the last 10 years. Teams are good at home. They’re good at home. Not many people win at Duke, either. You know why? Because they’re good.”

It is a rather simple, rational answer delivered with such withering contempt.

Then there is the storyline which I think most Pitt fans are grimly aware. The lack of wins against a top-25 team. And by “lack of,” I mean not a one.

Because Wednesday presents an interesting and unique opportunity for the Panthers, and not only because they’re hosting an opponent that received all 65 first-place votes in this week’s AP poll. That’s part of it, sure, because it’s always cool when the nation’s No. 1 team visits your campus, especially when that team is coached by a Hall of Famer. But this is also big because it’s Pitt’s final opportunity before the ACC tournament to record a win over a school currently ranked in the top 25 of the AP poll or top 35 of the RPI, and if the Panthers don’t record that win then the narrative surrounding them will intensify in a negative way.

You know the narrative, right?

It’s that Pitt can’t beat good teams.

In fairness, it’s an unfair narrative considering Pitt has A) historically been terrific at beating good teams, and B) already played No. 1 Syracuse, No. 10 Cincinnati and No. 17 Virginia to the final minute and could’ve theoretically won any or all of those games. But details don’t matter much when it comes to narratives — just ask, say, Peyton Manning — and, either way, the bottom line remains the bottom line, and that bottom line is this: Pitt won’t change the minds of its skeptics until the Panthers record their first top-40 win of the season.

“Now you’re saying top 40; last week you were saying top-50,” joked Pitt coach Jamie Dixon when we spoke by phone Tuesday, his point being that the standard apparently shifted once the Stanford team his Panthers beat in November moved to 44th in the RPI recently.

“I know the game you’re playing,” Dixon added with a laugh. “But I’m aware of the numbers.”

So, to recap, there’s a massive ACC showdown scheduled for Wednesday, and, contrary to what some might tell you, it’s going to originate from Pittsburgh, not Chapel Hill. Oh, sure, Duke-UNC will likely be great, and I can’t wait for it, either. But the Syracuse-Pitt game set to tip two hours earlier is the one that’ll probably have college basketball fans talking.

If Pitt wins, the Panthers will be validated, and Syracuse’s quest for a perfect regular season will be over. But if Pitt loses, those yelling that the Panthers “haven’t beaten anybody” will almost certainly start yelling louder, and Dixon’s team would then be completely out of opportunities to shut them up until the ACC tournament tips next month.

Which is frustrating for Pitt and the fans, but should be really embarrassing for the ACC as a whole with that reality. To have that many mediocre or worse teams in the conference. The middle is so soft right now.





If you look at all of the national sites (like Parrish on CBS Sports), they all talk about Kieta being out but no mention of Durand or even that Lamar and Talib are playing hurt. Nonetheless, a win tonight will erase a lot of recent grief.

But to do that, they must rebound. Va Tech had 19 second chance points to Pitt’s 6 … Pitt usually wins this category but even if it broke even, we wouldn’t be fretting so much a 13 pt win.

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 8:57 am

We need to score from the middle of the zone. Will someone step up? Need to play ferocious defense.

I just think Syracuse has too many weapons, and we are too banged up.

I’d love to be proved wrong.

Comment by gc 02.12.14 @ 9:04 am

The more I think about, the more I like Patterson at the four tonight. Nasir Robinson killed Syracuse a few times by getting in the middle of the zone, at the high post. Patterson is the same size and much more skilled. With Syracuse having limited front court depth, IF Patterson can create and Zanna can go up strong, they could get Syracuse in foul trouble.

Newkirk, Robinson and Wright need to hit a couple jumpers. I also wouldn’t mind it if Dixon gave Artis and Young the green light to shoot an open three.

I hope the bookmakers know something we don’t.

Comment by Boubabcar Aw 02.12.14 @ 9:14 am

Boubacar, I agree, Patterson went off against Miami, when he moved to the four. I like everything else you said as well.

The bookies are rarely wrong.

Comment by gc 02.12.14 @ 9:27 am

Boubecar, good analysis IMO. If Patterson still is having problem shooting, he would be ideal in the high post (like Nasir) with his passing skills.

We still need to hit open shots (we seem to do so more at home), Zanna and Young need to finish, and of course rebound.

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 9:38 am

This may sound a bit oversimplified, but I’d love to see our “bigs” — a term I use hesitatingly — attack the rim when they get the ball on a roll to the hoop or a rebound. I realize Young is way undersized down there, Zanna is a bit gimpy, etc., but it’s not as if these guys are not good athletes. Yes, they may get swatted, but they may also pick up some fouls and, perhaps, throw one or two down. Feel like up and down the line up Pitt players shy away from contact when going to the rim, making their shots much harder than they need to be. And if they do manage to pick up some fouls on ‘Cuse’s bigs, that will definitely change the dynamic.

With Patterson’s injury and our limited threats from outside, we need to score in the paint, plain and simple. Stop the double clutching and the high banks off the board and go to the rim! Send it in, please!

Comment by Carmen 02.12.14 @ 10:30 am

“clang”. One thing will erase that sound from my head!!!

Let’s Go Pitt!!!

Comment by Dan 02.12.14 @ 10:44 am

Everyone watching, including the commentators, wondered why Patterson wasn’t the guy at the high post when they played at the Dome.

But I don’t think it’s an easy choice…….

I think using him at the high post would be a good idea if he had reliable options to kick it out to for perimeter shots or anybody who could finish from one of his dishes down low.

But with this team’s offensive limitations, I’m not sure you can flash Patterson to the high post often and still get him enough touches. If he’s in there for most of the offensive game and they don’t get it in there enough, you will be depending on Robinson, Wright and Newkirk to be creative enough on the perimeter to beat the zone.

Flashing Nasir around inside a zone made sense; he was useless from the perimeter. I’m all for Patterson ducking in there from time to time, but playing him at the 4 and camping him inside the zone is going to hurt on the boards and maybe short circuit what little offense they have.

Comment by hugh green 02.12.14 @ 10:48 am

interesting:

link to espn.go.com

“Getting a ticket to a Duke-North Carolina game usually requires a sizable bank account withdrawal, but tickets to the first meeting between the rivals this season are the cheapest in at least five years.”

Comment by Pitt Dad 02.12.14 @ 10:59 am

hugh, Patterson would be ideal for the high post if he still is having problem shooting the ball from the outside (and be as useless as Nasir on the perimeter) … at least he could utilize his passing skills which is a requirement for that position the way Pitt attacks the zone. If he is back to form with his shooting, then as you said, he should just flash there occasionally.

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 11:02 am

I have to wonder how YOUNG would do at the high post? Good passer, length, and ability to hit those mid range jumpers too.

Comment by 1618mt 02.12.14 @ 11:04 am

yep, fair enough, wbb.

i’m optimistic this thumb thing was overblown and he’s able to shoot.

Comment by hugh green 02.12.14 @ 11:06 am

1618mt, I thought of that, he has the skills and he is a pass-first guy. He just seems too hesitant and mechanical at this stage. If he had Artis’ balls, I think he would be much better (which I expect from him in the next few years.)

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 11:09 am

UPSET in the AIR?

Comment by PittofDreams 02.12.14 @ 11:20 am

Odds makers were a bit off in the Pitt-Va. Tech game last week. Hopefully they aren’t off tonight.

hugh green, Patterson played the worst game of his career by far that’s why the thumb injury looms large.

If Patterson is shooting fine, then I’d leave him where he was last Cuse game. If his shot is the least bit bothered by his thumb, then you definitely move him to the 4.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.12.14 @ 11:27 am

wbb…

Thanks for Busting My Chops. Always fun.

But I think DiPaola was the first to confirm Douglas… as a long-time Pitt Beat Writer should.

Who knows, a little encouragement might cause DiPaola to get on the phone more often rather than just regurgitating a few News Conferemce quotes?

The Pitt Program and the Fan Base (aka Us) would stand to benefit.

Comment by PittofDreams 02.12.14 @ 11:31 am

OK, time for a boxers report.

Last Saturday, I pulled them out of the hamper to wear for the 5th time during the VT game. Of course, that is when my wife decides to do the laundry. So, they missed getting washed. This morning I grabbed them back out of the hamper and now they are on for the 6th time since last being washed.

What I do for my team. Anyhow, the magic “blue and gold boxers” are on for tonight’s game.

H2P

Comment by pmdH2P 02.12.14 @ 11:35 am

Pittof dreams, how is DiPalol the first when the guy at CBS Sports said it was a done deal 2 1/2 hours beafore DiPaolo’s article? That was my point

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 11:42 am

fact is that if you wait for Pitt’s formal confirmation as the beat writers have to do, you are going to be way behind since Pitt is pretty much known for being media unfriendly

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 11:47 am

Syracuse has struggled on the road this year and their depth is jeopardized with the injury. I know we have enough heart and talent to win. The question is are we healthy enough? The bookie says yes. Who are we to argue, bet the farm on Pitt.

Comment by spiritofsection22 02.12.14 @ 12:16 pm

Yes – Betting line started this morning at Pitt -1 and now it is Pitt -2.5. Guess they know something we do not about tonight’s game.

Comment by virgil 02.12.14 @ 12:21 pm

I don’t think this is even close (win or lose). Either we channel all of the frustration and align stars to shoot lights out and win by 10-15 or we limp and hurl a 10-15 point loss with Cuse dominating all the way.

If I had to put money, I’d say it’s 33% we blow them out and 66% they blow us out. Being honest and taking all of the factors in play.

One thing is for sure, if we lose tonight– the UNC game becomes, IMO, the first “must win” game of the year. We simply have no equity with the national media and a win in Chapel Hill will be helpful come mid March.

Here’s hoping we win the next two and making this all a mute point…

Comment by PaulyP 02.12.14 @ 12:34 pm

– I think there is a good chance the Duke v. UNC game is postponed tonight.

– If DiPaolo et.al. were truly beat writers, they would have reported that Pitt was actually SEEKING a DB coach in the first place. As far a I know, Pitt’s interest in Douglas was the first time hiring a DB coach was ever reported.

– I think the Panthers will scrap tonite. Possible ways they win: 1) Patterson is healthy and goes off, 2)Syracuse is as cold as the packed ice in my driveway, 3)Syracuse gets in foul trouble, 4) Artis goes 4-5 from behind the line, 5) some combo of 1-4. H2P…

Comment by Iron Duke 02.12.14 @ 12:44 pm

Be aggressive and get Grant and Fair in foul trouble early. Syracuse bench is thin.

Comment by gdodson 02.12.14 @ 12:51 pm

Headed for Tasarro’s for a couple scotches and a sandwich before the game. The worst I can come out of this is well fed and half drunk. I hope the game is as good as the sandwich. HTP

Comment by spiritofsection22 02.12.14 @ 12:51 pm

It might help if we make our fouls.

Comment by spiritofsection22 02.12.14 @ 12:52 pm

Iron Duke, Werner tweeted it and DiPaola posted it in his blog (before Werner I believe.) Please note the difference of a beat writer’s article and his blog or tweet.

The Beat Writer’s newspaper column is entirely fact-based with no opinion or speculation, whereas his blog or tweet is not necessarily so. Opinion based coumns are for people like Ron Cook who are not connected to any team.

A beat writer who has to be with the coaches and players day after day has to create a level of trust with the team he is covering.

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 12:56 pm

If Patterson’s thumb is still hurting his shooting, then he needs to drive to the left side of the rim for layups. In the last game he had that drive and floater/off the backboard toward the end of the game. If you can’t make foul shots then go opposite hand for layups.

As to offensive rebounding, our guys need to be in position to rebound. Many times in the last game there were 3 Hokies around the rim and no panthers closer than the top of the key. No wonder we got few offensive rebounds.

Comment by Caw Miller 02.12.14 @ 12:58 pm

I think the best we can hope for is a tight game with a chance to win at the buzzer.

Comment by gc 02.12.14 @ 12:58 pm

@PaulyP,

I think just the opposite. Pitt will win but it will be very close.

First half of the season Pitt wins big or loses squeakers (Cincinnati, Syracuse, Virginia). Second half Pitt looses big (Duke) or wins squeakers (Miami, VT, and now Syracuse).

Comment by Howard 02.12.14 @ 12:59 pm

for the line to change from -1 to -2.5 shows that the money is (remarkably) on Pitt so far.

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 1:00 pm

@ pmdH2p, what is the “Boxers” actual record for the season?

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.12.14 @ 1:17 pm

wbb – I understand, but not sure the lines are as cut and dry as they used to bo. So does Pitt football have a beat writer???

Comment by Iron Duke 02.12.14 @ 1:23 pm

I’m in complete agreement with gdodson, our bench is deeper, play them tight and hard with an agressive inside offense early and hope to get them into foul trouble early. Pitt should still play this as a Big East style basketball game even though we’re both in the ACC now.

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.12.14 @ 1:24 pm

SofS22, I’m worried about the same thing. I’ve not analysed the trend at the foul line as the season has progressed but it sure seems like Pitt’s high % FT stats that were evident at the beginning of the season have gone into hibernation as of late, especially late in the game when they really count!

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.12.14 @ 1:29 pm

OK, I know that there is really no relationship here. But it is sort of interesting that our ACC losses this year in hoops are to teams who we beat in football—and our wins in hoops are over teams to whom we lost in football. If this holds, we beat UNC and Florida State—and lose to Notre Dame. Tonight’s game is a toss up, since we lost already once to Syracuse and only beat them once in football.

H2P

Comment by pmdH2P 02.12.14 @ 1:29 pm

@Dr Tom

So far we have won every time that I have worn them. There is no way they are in the hamper or my drawer during any future games.

H2P

Comment by pmdH2P 02.12.14 @ 1:32 pm

Tonite”s games that can help Pitt’s RPI/seeding:

Lehigh over American (Not likely)

Duquesne over Richmond (It’s hard to see the Dukes pulling out a win, even at home)

Penn State over Indiana (Not likely)

Albany over Maryland-Baltimore County (Albany could win a close game on the road)

Texas Tech over Oklahoma (Not likely)

Stanford over Washington (Stanford could get another road win)

Fresno State over Nevada (In Reno, might be close)

And Pitt beating Syracuse sure would help.

Comment by xfmrman 02.12.14 @ 1:33 pm

Pitt FB beat writers are Sam Werner (PG) and Jerry DiPaolo (Trib). Werner is beat writer for WBB.

Paul Zeise is PG Pitt beat writer for men’s BB, and was pedecessor to Werner until his son received an offer from PC.

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 1:39 pm

I liked the first quote of this thread, “We’ll see. He hasn’t been put in a game-like situation, so you never know,” Dixon said of Patterson’s thumb. “It feels good when he is walking around and having lunch, but playing in a game is a little different deal, so we will have to see.”

So my suggestion to Dixon concerning Patterson, hold him back from the dinner table tonight so that he’ll be good and hungry come game time, then send him out on the court with the task of eating Syracuse’s “lunch” and hope that his thumb continues to feel fine!

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.12.14 @ 1:43 pm

Who exactly is betting on Pitt tonight? I don’t get the line going up. I love Pitt hoops but I would never bet on Pitt beating Cuse tonight.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.12.14 @ 1:48 pm

Seriously though, you gotta love the Pitt stat of being 9-0 against top 5 teams that visit the Pete! Even better yet, Syracuse knows of that statistic from personal experience, all too well!

Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.12.14 @ 1:53 pm

I dropped $50,000 on Pitt about an hour ago but I’d be hard pressed to think that one bet could move the line?

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.12.14 @ 1:55 pm

SOS22 – get the burger, best in the ‘burgh.

Comment by boubacar aw 02.12.14 @ 2:05 pm

well, Dr Tom, combine that with my 75 Large, and it probably did have some effect

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 2:05 pm

Now that grand total COULD provide enough leverage to move the line wbb. I had no idea you were a sports betting gambler. Guess I know where you’ll be come 7 pm. Lets keep our fingers crossed, if Pitt comes through it will get me back to even again from that Duke debacle.

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.12.14 @ 2:36 pm

@xfmrman, I always appreciate your posts with the games relevant to Pitt.

Comment by Dan 02.12.14 @ 2:37 pm

wbb,we should meet up together at The Rivers Casino after a Pitt football game and throw somw bones at the Craps table, if that’s your game, next season.

Comment by Dr. Tom 02.12.14 @ 2:39 pm

The people betting up the line must not have watched the last couple games. If JD is afraid to play the fresh 4’s our bench goes to Newkirk only and that will not be enough against the Orange.
The two games this week will define the season, need to win at least one or the NIT may be in sight.

Comment by Jimbo 02.12.14 @ 2:50 pm

actually Dr Tom, you called my bluff … you see I’m a terrible gambler!

Back in circa ’78, I lost $440 on a Pitt-ND game when Joe Montana engineered a big 4th quarter comeback …. and ended up losing nearly 2 grand that year (I was a couple years out of college then and couldn’t really afford it.) That pretty much cured me and never bet much after that … except first time I went to Atlantic City when I dropped a few hundred within an hour.

With all of the times I’ve been to the North Shore, I only have been to the casino once .. and spent no time at the craps table.

Comment by wbb 02.12.14 @ 2:53 pm

@Dr TOm

I, on the other hand, am a major player at the $5 blackjack table. 🙂

H2P

Comment by pmdH2P 02.12.14 @ 3:16 pm

@xfmrman, I always appreciate your posts with the games relevant to Pitt.
Comment by Dan 02.12.14 @ 2:37 pm

I second that. Great opportunity. I fear the thumb and ankle may present a critical mass on top of the ACL. Its the 3 young men… Its going to click for MY (he will find his flow) & JA will play better on the ball D (he just has too much desire to fail) & JN – i don’t know that we have had anyone quicker to the 50/50 ball or with the dribble – ever (he will show up tobacco road every chance he gets). They appear to be 3 good kids (& CJ deserves his thumb surgery & rehab) – if 2 of them shine at the same time (with a health LP & TZ) then you got to love them. Mixed bag. theres no place like home H2P

Comment by ptbreezeb 02.12.14 @ 3:33 pm

I don’t see any way in hell that the smart money isn’t taking Syracuse getting 2.5 points. And the UNDER unless we to to 3OT’s.

5Dimes.eu
Syr: +2.5
PITT: -2.5
O/U – 123.5

They must not watch much college hoops in Europe.

Comment by TVax 02.12.14 @ 5:24 pm

I was waiting for upitt to make a bet/prediction so that I could go the opposite way. Hurry upitt, I gotta make a call.

Sometimes good at over under, but not so much on results. I will predict that most rebounds occur under the rim as usual. If Patterson can’t shoot, he shouldn’t roam the “T”. If he can only pass, the orange will figure it out soon enough.

I do agree that all of the Pitt players need to go to the rack hard and draw fouls. Ennis is the key. Apparently he does not have a turnover in the last four minutes of a game this year. Odd stat, but I heard it on the radio. Pitt will only win with a concerted defensive effort. Carpe’ Orange!!

Comment by dhuffdaddy 02.12.14 @ 5:40 pm

I bet $4.95 on Cuse…this way, if Pitt loses I can go out and get a happy meal.

Comment by Jackagain 02.12.14 @ 6:12 pm

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