August 23, 2013

Chapman Dismissed

Filed under: Embarrassing,Football,Scandal — Justin @ 10:51 am

Pitt officials have announced that Tra’Von Chapman has been dismissed from the program. In essence: he’s gone, never coming back. We can debate endlessly over this decision, but the call came all the way from the top: Chancellor Nordenberg.

Let’s go over just the facts:

Former Kent Roosevelt star quarterback and University of Pittsburgh freshman Tra’Von Chapman pled guilty to a charge of attempted assault on Monday afternoon in Portage County Municipal Court.

Judge Barbara Oswick accepted the plea and ordered Chapman to spend three days in jail, pay a $200 fine, 40 hours of community service and must report to adult probation Aug. 2. Judge also issued a no-contact order, which prohibits Chapman from speaking to the victim or her family.

Chapman was convicted of attempted assault on a woman and spent 3 days in jail, but with 87 days of a suspended sentence, one mistake and he’s back in prison. Typically speaking, punishment is determined by the football program. However, given the circumstances (actual jail time, conviction, gender of victim), the decision was pushed all the way to the top.

I want to elaborate on that. If Chapman stays while guys who were never convicted like Drew Carswell and Eric Williams are kicked off the team, it could appear to be favortism. More important is the gender of the victim. If Chapman was convicted of attempted assault on an 18 year old male, this case looks a lot different.

We fired Haywood for allegedly hitting the mother of his child in an argument. While coaches are held to a higher standard (see Petrino, Bobby) than players, attempted assault involving a woman is too controversial. If Chapman stayed, protests would be inevitable. Given the recent black eyes on the program regarding off field issues, the last thing this university needs is a headline that says “Poster Child for Player Arrests Keeps Convicted Woman Beater on Roster.” Would it be entirely factual? No. Does that matter to the media? Nope.

I agree with this decision. This wasn’t just a football program issue; it was a university issue. It’s very evident that ever since the Sports Illustrated cover that the university will not allow the football program to be a public image issue. Losing games is one thing, but they’d much rather be a .500 program with good student athletes than 10-2 and disrupting the university’s academic mission.

There’s very little fallout for 2013. Chapman was almost guaranteed to get a redshirt. The big issue is 2014. As of right now, the depth chart is Voytik, Trey Anderson, and 2 true freshmen. Not good. Expect a JUCO or a senior who has already graduated to transfer in for next season. I’ll do some digging to see what I can find there, but I highly doubt we go into 2014 with that QB depth chart.

I don’t take issue with the decision, just the timing. I believe this could have been decided 3 weeks ago … if not before.

This would have at least given Chapman time to find another school before the term began.

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 10:55 am

Given that the decision was made by Nordy, I’m guessing he has more important things to do. Maybe he wanted to speak to Chapman first?

Comment by Justin 08.23.13 @ 10:59 am

Well now we know they are serious about running a clean program. After the Haywood debacle I am not sure they could have made any other decision.

Comment by oklahomeboy 08.23.13 @ 11:01 am

wbb, was thinking the same thing, probably should have been done right after sentencing. Not sure what changed between then and now.

With or without Chapman options at QB are ‘limited’ next year. It seems Voytik still inconsistent. Hopefully one of the incoming freshman shows potential for 2015.

Comment by Iron Duke 08.23.13 @ 11:04 am

Tough medicine to swallow for all parties involved. But, probably the most appropriate course of action for Pitt.

Comment by ECH 08.23.13 @ 11:07 am

I’m not too concerned with the timing. Pitt owes Chapman nothing. He has to deal with the consequences of his actions. I actually don’t think Chapman is a bad guy. I think he got caught up in a bad situation and reacted poorly. But, the nature of the conviction (attempted assault on a woman) is the killer.

Comment by Justin 08.23.13 @ 11:10 am

I’ve made no secret that I would have been okay if Chapman was allowed to return with the appropriate penalties.

I’m not surprised, though, that they dismissed him. A bit bothered that they waited this long to make the decision.

There’s little sympathy for the kid I know, but it isn’t totally fair to wait to this point to say no. They’ve had the information for a while and it puts Chapman in the bind of trying to find a new school. He is already going to have to transfer and lose a year of eligibility. There’s no way he can find another school. Get that school to vet and accept him — given the baggage — before classes start. The only exception might be for schools that go on a quarter system.

Plus, it is one of the more Pitt things to make this decision known minutes before the Football Kickoff luncheon. Just imagining Reed and plenty of others mingling and finding their seats before the event starts. Then everyone’s phone going off at once with texts about this news. Well timed.

Comment by Chas 08.23.13 @ 11:12 am

The dilemna was this … since a coach was fired for purportedly the same thing, it only follows that a player should let go. Or does it? A coach is hired to lead. A regular student wouldn’t be dismissed from school. Further, this was a Chryst recruit, he wanted him badly.

I have a feeling Nordenberg has zero tolerance. He would have let both Sheard and Gunn go, if given the opportunity. While on one level, this can be celebrated and admirable, one must ask .. is this practical?

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 11:16 am

Sheard and Chapman are completely different scenarios. Sheard got in a fight with another man. Chapman tried to assault a woman. No one is going to protest 2 guys who got into a fight.

You better believe a few women’s groups would flip shit over a guy who hit a woman staying on the team.

Comment by Justin 08.23.13 @ 11:24 am

Right decision, probably took to long, my guess it involved legal opinions and some due process.

Definitely should not have been Chryst’s decision.

Interesting that Nordenberg protected Pedersen from making the buck stop with him. Again, probably the correct way to go about it.

Chapman has nobody to blame but himself. Sends a strong statement to all Pitt Athletes.

Self discipline and control is required at all times. No second chances allowed when it comes to physical abuse of women.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 11:26 am

No probably about it. Chapman had to go.

Comment by PittMW 08.23.13 @ 11:26 am

I am totally behind him with this decision and understand their dilemma but being they knew the facts in May. Shouldn’t they have had a game plan in place like the Aaron Hernandez situation? This is where you have to question who is running the ship. Robert Kraft gathered his coaches and said if he’s arrested we will cut him. Coaches could have argued but they had less time to prepare than anyone and they had much more of a financial commitment and more at stake than our beloved Panthers. If Steve continues to run the Athletic Dept. that is fine but how can he manage to back up his salary with time wasting decisions like this. He will probably have to go the FCS route now.

Comment by tedsptman 08.23.13 @ 11:44 am

Justn, Sheard threw a guy thru a glass door in the presence of 2 policemen who were tryng to stop him. Now according to everything I have read and heard, the other guy was the instigator. Not that it makes it permissable, we’re not even sure if the woman attacked Chapman first.

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 11:48 am

No problem with the decision. Timing was poor. I’m sure Nordy’s patience is is growing quite thin with the programs reputation but mine is too. Don’t want to go through another 20 years of losing. I may dismiss my alma mater for lack of of effort.

Comment by Pitt77 08.23.13 @ 11:51 am

This decision can be summarized with one word. CONSISTANT. On to FSU.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.23.13 @ 11:52 am

didn’t finish my point … do you not think that Nordy would have expelled Sheard for his act .. throwing a guy through a glass door indefiance of police?

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 11:53 am

First, let me say that this is a very unfortunate situation for the young man, his victim, and Pitt. The bottom line is that if any male University of Pittsburgh student is convicted in court for a charge involving an act of violence against a woman, that male student should be dismissed from the University after following whatever process has been established for this circumstance. I am sure the time delay here was connected to the internal process that had to play out to make this decision.

I have seen some here post about “saintly” views on this matter. The fact is all students are required to follow a code of conduct. I would be willing to bet you that a number of Pitt students are dismissed from the University every year because of criminal behavior. Notice, I don’t make any mention of “student athletes”.

Comment by HbgFrank 08.23.13 @ 12:05 pm

Sad, but necessary.

Comment by PittofDreams 08.23.13 @ 12:09 pm

Hbg, This did not happen on campus. I doubt very much if you or I was guilty of this and am a current student, we would be dismissed.

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 12:11 pm

Why no faith in Chad. He will have another
year under his belt as a backup and maybe
game experience. Today I wouldn’t want
to start season with him at QB, but next
season he’s the man.

Comment by Tackle made by Hugh 08.23.13 @ 12:12 pm

I know UPittbaseball for one will be satisfied with this decision.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.23.13 @ 12:15 pm

I guess my problem is that now I feel conflicted.

For years now …. the expectations were that we win the conference, or at least be very competitive. Now, the primary incentive is to have the minimum amount of arrests, as Chas has alluded to above.

Hey Emel, Imma Man and Matt N … well at least Tino has never been arrested!!

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 12:18 pm

Every weekend around the country some boyfriends and girlfriends get into heated arguments and perhaps a little in your face and light rough stuff like pushing or holding someone’s arm or hand too tightly — unacceptable in my book but its life, and these situations never rise to the level of criminal activity…and many police departments just try to calm folks down and not charge anyone.

The fact that this wasn’t handled in that way, and that the kid actually was charged, booked, pled guilty, convicted, and sent to jail — with a greatly reduced sentence — despite being a football star in Ohio (say no more, right?) tells me a great deal about the nature of what he did.

Yes, Wbb, none of us were there to see what she did, but seriously, a judge thought it was bad enough to convict the kid as a high school student when most would want to just slap him on the wrist and simply verbally rebuke him.

My spidey sense, and it appears most others on this website feel about the same, is that this kid is a major douche and need not be on our campus.

I’m totally fine with Voytik, Anderson, and the two freshmen next year, but never hurts to keep an eye open for talented, transferring upper class QBs. Sordid affair and very glad Pitt manned up and did the right thing.

Comment by Matt N. 08.23.13 @ 12:19 pm

Now I get it, the KICKOFF luncheon, guess the timing actually was perfect!

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.23.13 @ 12:20 pm

I’ll give Tino that.

Comment by Matt N. 08.23.13 @ 12:21 pm

If Chapman was the total douche that you say he is … then why did Chryst and Pedersen campaign for him?

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 12:24 pm

Listen, I’m not aganst the decision (yes, the timing but not the decision) but really don’t understand the parameters now.

If under an alleged zero tolerance … what would happen to a FB player who, as a student, had a childe out of wedlock and amassed over $1000 of unpaid parking tickets on campus?

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 12:36 pm

Chapman gone means Chryst is going to have to get active in the JC QB market.

Voytik deserves a chance to show if he’s a winner.

But based on his difficulties he continues to have throwing the ball, he doesn’t exactly look like the prototypical quarterback to run the Chryst offense… let alone worthy of all the hype that surrounded him coming in.

Comment by PittofDreams 08.23.13 @ 12:42 pm

I don’t think we know that Chryst and Pedersen campaigned for him, those were Chapman’s words. Can’t help but think that Chapman’s quotes in the press were ill advised and hurt any chance he had of being allowed to stay.

Comment by shaef 08.23.13 @ 12:46 pm

Dr. Tom – You are correct. I wish Chryst made the call and didn’t have to go up to the Chancellor. It’s bush league he even had to be involved. Chryst should of shit canned the kid but since he was one of Chryst’s character first kids he must of been fond of him. Way to go Nordy, sad something like this even had to cross his desk. Good Luck at Louisville Chapman.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 12:49 pm

To help with recruiting. Make it look like the coach and AD will fight for you through thick and thin. We already have enough of a PR problem.

Comment by tedsptman 08.23.13 @ 12:49 pm

While I agree with this decision, I have a feeling we’re going to see Chapman on the field in 3 years and he’s going to light us up. That’s just Pitt’s luck.

Comment by Justin 08.23.13 @ 12:54 pm

Chapman put the University in a terrible situation because of his actions. Pitt really only had one choice (to dismiss) and they made it accordingly. Yes, Dr Tom, just in time for the “Kick Off” event – PRICELESS!

Comment by pittman4ever 08.23.13 @ 12:57 pm

No need for name calling, the kid made a mistake and is paying the price. I dare say that 90% of D1 schools would have let it go, but the current environment at Pitt required the action.

Isn’t about time that administrators stop looking the other way in deference of the mighty football program. Ask how they feel about that at PSU.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 12:59 pm

I also believe that if someone throws a guy through a window on the SouthSide this year, he is gone.

Pitt is not the Steelers, who can selectively look the other way when someone beats up their wife or goes on a drinking and driving spree through the SouthSide.

A University should hold itself and it’s constituents to a higher standard.

By the same token there will always be a lot of Gray areas, this does not appear to be one.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 1:09 pm

The University had little choice given all of the prior issues. I’m not sure where the Haywood lawsuit stands but you can bet Haywood’s counsel was hoping they kept Chapman on the team if it is still open.

Comment by FG 08.23.13 @ 1:12 pm

Back to PSU, look what happens when you let the coach be the final arbiter. We could have the player play and the team pick up the litter after the FSU game. Cheap, but I had go there.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 1:14 pm

As pointed out, the truth is we don’t know if Chryst himself ever entertained the idea of having Chapman back on the team.

In fact, he might have pushed for his dismissal.

Frankly, I would have been really surprised to see Chryst welcome Chapman back given the nature of the crime.

A standard is being set.

Can it win football games? I guess we’re going to find out.

Comment by PittofDreams 08.23.13 @ 1:20 pm

I’m okay with the decision; I just hope this Bertke guy or whatever his name is is the real deal.

Comment by Jeff 08.23.13 @ 1:39 pm

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat it (or something like that)

Whe I first start following Pitt in the mid 60s, they had very high academic standards for the athletes. But after 3 straight 1 win seasons, a complete reversal of thinking was implemented, resulting in bringing in 85 scholarships players (not making that up.) Of course, that class led to a national title, and the program became very successful on the field through the early 80s … and even was a winning program for much of the remainder of the decade.

In ’90, a new coach brought in a new discipline with emphasis on the STUDENT-athlete, which included 6 a.m. practices. Well, there may have been better students, but that coach was let go after a few years … but it began a horrific downward on-the-field spiral, which eventually led to 72 to 0 defeats and talk of lowering the program to D2.

Instead, a new AD was hired who hired a new coach who brought the program back to on-the-field respectability. And despite an embarassing off-the-field situation, the coach was retained a couple more years until it was evident that he could not lift the program to another level. After a slow start, the successor was beginning to raise the progarm but apparently a rash of off-the-field activity led to his demise.

The program then became the model of instability both on and especially off the field. Now the emphasis is cleaning up off the field.

My question is … when will the priority change back again to on-the-field success … since based on history, it will only be a matter of time?

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 1:40 pm

wbb, it’ll change when there’s new leadership in the athletic department and it could go either way: more emphasis or less, but doubtfully the same amount. Stevie is going to be around for awhile, like it or not.

Regarding Chryst, I would assume the reason this went up to Nordy is because Chryst, at least initially, wanted Chapman to stay. I can’t imagine Nordy would say “whoa, don’t kick this player off until I say it’s OK.” If Chryst wants to kick a player off for off field issues, I imagine Nordy supports it 100%.

Comment by Justin 08.23.13 @ 1:52 pm

My essay above was not a criticism of Stevie. It was the inconsistent priorities that seem to be associated with this program.

I would hope that discipline and talent is not necessarily mutually exclusive, but evidence shows that the most successful programs have questionable leadership and policies.

I think most Pitt fans would be happy with winning an avearge of 8 games with minimal arrests. However, as Chas alluded above …. “Losing games is one thing, but they’d much rather be a .500 program with good student athletes than 10-2 and disrupting the university’s academic mission.” As noble as this sounds, would it be acceptable or will the boosters be calling for PC’s head eventually?

Yes, we all can answer that we will be fine with this right now … but history says differently

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 2:20 pm

I hope Travon learns from his mistake and that he goes on to a successful career as a player and student.People make mistakes.He commited a violent crime against a woamn. I am not defending him but he is young. He will be given antoher D1 shot. I hope he makes the best of it. Hail To Pitt.

Comment by titleman 08.23.13 @ 2:20 pm

My only concern is that in our society we worship atheletes and put them at a higher standard. If one of us was arrested for taking a slap at our wifes, and perhaps some on this blog do now and then would you lose your job.
Also I have a concern not about this particular incident but about the hypocracy of a society that prides itself on the rule of law yet has the largest proportion of its citizens incarerated than any country in the world.

Comment by pittisit 08.23.13 @ 2:26 pm

I have no problem with this decision.

Just a couple questions.

1) Why did the Chancellor have to get involved ?
We’re paying PC $2 million/year and Smiley over a $1/million/year or close to it.

2) Why did this take so long to make a decision ?
Wouldn’t one already have several course of actions outlined depending on how the case worked out ?

3) Does the kid go back to jail now since he won’t be taking ‘anger management’ courses at PITT as the Judge up for re-election imposed on him ?

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 2:33 pm

I’m thinking that most of you aren’t into film noir.

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 2:37 pm

When great success is achieved, we tend to be much more forgiving of our athletes (Tony Dorsett is the example I gave above of, while at Pitt, having a child out of wedlock and amassing over $1000 on-campus parking tickets.) Joe Starky of the Trib and Bob Smizik of the PG, both insist / maintain that if DW would have one a BE title and advanced to a BCS game, he wouldn’t have been fired.

People like Urban Meyer, Les Miles, Nick Saban, Pete Carroll, Rick Pitino, John Calipari and Jim Tressel could probably win governor races.

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 2:43 pm

The Pitt administration throughout history has tried to fuck over the football program. Congratulations to asshole Nordenberg who has managed to keep the tradition alive. Look for Chryst to head out of town when the right opportunity comes along. Pitt is cheap and stupid about major college football.

Comment by TonyinHouston 08.23.13 @ 2:49 pm

Tony, your viewpoint may be in the minority on this site right now .. but I bet it won’t be in a few years.

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 2:51 pm

Only decision Pitt could make – and it’s the right one.

Wins and losses are temporary. Integrity is not.

Hail to Pitt.

Comment by jw 08.23.13 @ 2:56 pm

here’s integrty for you

link to

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 3:03 pm

Tony, I’m glad you are not Pitt’s Chancellor. Nordenberg made the right decision. Period!

Comment by MariettaMike 08.23.13 @ 3:04 pm

And that is why, we don’t have the alumni support of other universities.

And why a program with 9 National Championships doesn’t even have an on campus stadium.

They chose basketball over football back in 1999.

So while that has certainly helped the basketball program, I doubt very seriously we’ll ever win a National Championship in basketball.

With the new found revenue now supplied by the ACC affiliation, which we know will be used mostly to fund non-revenue sports, we will now be content to run a clean program and play in minor bowl games in good seasons, like much Boston College. In that rare instance you happen on to a Matt Ryan type, you might make the ACC championship game. Although we missed out on the Matt Ryan type who was related to the current HC.

Other than that, get use to no bowl games or continued trips to Charlotte, Birmingham, Shreveport and St. Pete.

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 3:06 pm

Oh I forgot, the new big venue….Detroit. lol

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 3:08 pm

“Winning isn’t everything, Winning is the only thing”

No doubt you are right wbb. The pendulum swings both ways, especially at Pitt. No program is squeaky clean and it is easier to look the other way when you are winning.

Since the call to fire DW it has been one crisis after the other, maybe it started with the SI article. One embarrassment after the other, Haywood, Graham, defections, drug busts. FUBAR comes to mind.

Somewhere a decision had to be made to right the course. We have been pretty much irrelevant on the national scene for 30 years anyway. Why not try a new strategy. Win with character kids, within the rules. It might work.

Most of the guys you mention above have been borderline with the rules. Maybe that is what it takes to win big, that and deep pockets.

The decision has obviously been made that Pitt wants smart, quality kids, maybe more than wins, but the first does not necessarily exclude the second. It just make it more challenging.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 3:09 pm

DiPaola is on the Fan right now, and confirms that Pitt was forced to make the decision they had to .. no question.

Howver, he also said that
(1) by all accounts, Chapman is a good kid who made a bad mistake
(2) from what he found out from people at Kent that he did not strike the woman but grabbed her roughly, no marks were apparent nor was she treated medically … nonetheless, he did plead guilty to assault
(3) Chryst is not under much pressure to win but this will change in or about 2015.

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 3:16 pm

wbb, great link, the comments are the best.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 3:17 pm

As I’ve mentioned before, the university will not sacrifice their academic mission for the football team. We’re one of few universities that properly values athletics as second to academics. Would you rather be Maryland? Urban Meyer is the scum of the earth and I would cease watching Pitt football if he became coach. He makes Todd Graham look like a saint.

Comment by Justin 08.23.13 @ 3:27 pm

lol, yea we know PC isn’t under any pressure to win.

If he was after this decision it would be ludicrous.

Cops are notorious for writing up reports with the wrong information or aggrandizing it to make the accused perp look worse. For if the case should go to a jury trial, they want to make the charges appear more severe and usually they’ll list several charges so that at least one or two will stick.

I’ve read several police reports of several incidents I witnessed and thought to myself, what in the heck is the police officer writing here.

It’s a shame but it’s the way things are done and the way these guys are trained today.

They want to get as many ppl as possible ‘into the penal system’ as these prisons are now run by private company’s for profit. Very sad state of affairs as we move into the beginnings of a police state.

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 3:34 pm

Justin, get off your high horse. I just told you what they tolerated from Dorsett … and there were several other stories from that time period.

We are valuing ethics above winning probably because we cannot win big …. you can pontificate all you want, but if we had the success that OSU (and Urban) has had, our opinions would be much different … and you’re only fooling himself if you think differently

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 3:34 pm

Emel – Said we pay Chryst 2M and our asshole AD who probably woudn’t get hired by Carlow College 1M to make decisions. What does Pederson do????? Hires search firms to fill positions. ANswers his phone when ACC called. Fucks up uniforms, and has made a joke out of our university.

Emel – I look at us as having 1 NCAA. The other ones don’t count it was 1930 ish and their were about 50 colleges LOL (We are so irrelevant on a national level it’s sick.) We aren’t the laughing stock because people in other places in the US aren’t even sure we have a team. I like shit canning Chapman but thinking a kid form Michigan that went to school with 19 others kids in his class is the savior for QB is a joke.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 3:37 pm

Btw I have several relatives that have high positions in large well-known police depts or other law enforcement agencies. So I know this is common practice. And a lot of these officers are not comfortable with what is going on these days.

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 3:39 pm

I like Urban… I don’t think he is looked at as a sleeze ball but what do I know. Emel – It is a joke that all that land was available down along the river by the hot metal bridge and no one has a plan for a stadium. it’s right off the highway and has plenty of room to park. Pederson being allowed to have a job is a sin.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 3:45 pm

What does Pederson do ? Excellent question.

He did manage to get Peterson Events Ctr painted on the basketball court to impress the unknown TV audience and unknowing game attendees.

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 3:47 pm

Justin layer out the argument well

1) jail time
2) conviction
3) assault (against a female)
4) ongoing litigation from Heyward for similar case
5) SI article
6) previous players already released after simply being charged

This one was a easy and correct decision when you strip away the personal feelings for Chapman.
Sad but had to be done. Nordy made the correct call and that is why he has the top job. It isn’t about W and L’s. Nordy has prided himself in Pitt’s reputation which he skillfully has built.

Comment by Pitt fan in Atlanta 08.23.13 @ 3:52 pm

Nobody answered my 3 questions:

I have no problem with this decision.

Just a couple questions.

1) Why did the Chancellor have to get involved ?
We’re paying PC $2 million/year and Smiley over a $1/million/year or close to it.

2) Why did this take so long to make a decision ?
Wouldn’t one already have several course of actions outlined depending on how the case worked out ?

3) Does the kid go back to jail now since he won’t be taking ‘anger management’ courses at PITT as the Judge up for re-election imposed on him ?
Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 2:33 pm

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 3:57 pm

as a law enforcement professional, i find your comments towards the police offensive. yes, there are criminals in every profession, but to lump all law enforcement in a negative light is irresponsible.

Comment by goalie44 08.23.13 @ 3:58 pm

Does Nordy’s decision send the kid back to jail ?

Cause there will be NO..’Anger Management’ classes for this kid at PITT !

Therefore he will be in violation of the Holier that Thou Judge’s edict.

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 3:59 pm

@ goalie44

my bad…Should have included the word…”Most” or “Some” Cops.

Thx for pointing that out, my relatives in law enforcement sometimes read this blog as they are Pitt fans as well. Of course they would know I wouldn’t ‘lump all’, but you & other’s don’t.

Thx again bud !

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 4:03 pm

I guess some of you believe it’s okay to beat up women as long as you can throw a football. How sad.

Comment by MariettaMike 08.23.13 @ 4:04 pm


now we can all sing kumbya..haha

Comment by goalie44 08.23.13 @ 4:10 pm

lol yes kumbaya.

Might replace Sweet Carolina after the 3rd quarter I heard !

Led by Smiley & Nordy themselves !

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 4:15 pm

Note of interest (or maybe not) **

The Carolina Panthers official song is:

(you guessed it)

Sweet Caroline

Did Smiley also get the Groundhog Dinocat helmet logo idea from them ? Cause his only other ideas were:

1) Change our name from PITT to Pittsburgh
2) Tear down our on campus stadium in a world where football revenue is king and old on campus stadiums are cherished. All with NO plan in place to build a replacement one.
3) Fire a guy who led PITT to it’s best 3 year combined record and highest end of season ranking in 30 years and (get this) have NO PLAN in PLACE WITH WHOM TO REPLACE HIM WITH.

Just reviewing the highlites of Smiley’s career at PITT since I see we have several new bloggers, (or at least new blogging names) appearing. ***

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 4:25 pm


Comment by Rev. George Mehaffey 08.23.13 @ 4:33 pm

wbb, using Tony D as a straw man, you can do better than that. A child out of wbblock, not a crime, now or then, a bunch of parking tickets, hardly equivalent to physical abuse of a women or having heroin sold in your house.

Times have changed, four guys charged with rape at Vanderbilt is not the equivalent of a barroom brawl at Chiefs in the 70’s.

Tony, calling the Chancellor an asshole and Pitt stupid and cheap says a lot more about you than them. Strong analysis on your part. Way to keep it classy.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 4:36 pm

Sad day for all. He enrolled early and Pitt did a good piece on him on live wire but the decision is correct! He had to go! Pitt does need to step up the recruiting on quarterbacks! Haven’t had a really good blue chipper since Dan the Man!

Comment by Sweet Caroline 08.23.13 @ 4:51 pm

Wbb, I don’t think that Justin is on a high horse. I think he is calling it as he see’s it in the “here and now”. We have lost more players in the last year then PSU, whose entire roster had a green light to leave with no penalty. It certainly appears that the adminsitration has given Chryst some very clear marching orders. Clean house, and keep it clean, or you will wind up as an Assistant coach for Tampa Bay!

Comment by HbgFrank 08.23.13 @ 4:55 pm

Had Chapman been a great QB, JoPa would have had him back on the team, with enough spin to make it seem like it was the girl’s fault all along.

Tragic as it is, Pitt made the right call.
Because we are NOT PSUcks

Comment by Gas 08.23.13 @ 5:11 pm

Easy Reverend, the University is not a religious organization. Besides the Catholic Church gave a lot of second chances to their priests and look where it got them.

While we all feel for the kid, he will do fine elsewhere, where the microscope is not as fine.

This was not a football decision, in light of the Haywood suit, the potential bad PR, think what the media would have done had this gone the other way.
Think how other schools would use this during recruiting. Do you want your son to go to a school where they condone the abuse of women?

What would happen if the kid screws up again?

He may not realize it, but Chapman is way better off going elsewhere. If I were him as far away as possible.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 5:16 pm

Joe Pa..some of these girls I dunno they dress up and boys will be boys.

Comment by chethejet 08.23.13 @ 5:21 pm

Chas – that was exactly how it went down. E. J. released to news to the media a bit before 11:30. Nordenberg himself made the call after a presentation by Pederson met with him.

I’ll say this; obviously it was a matter of discussion among the tables and at the reception area and everyone I discussed it with agreed with the decision. Both older and younger guys all said the same thing.

EMel – I’ll beat a dead horse but this situation, with the Chancellor personally taking the decision away from the athletic administration, is the direct result of what happened back in 2010. I’ve stated on here before that the PITT administration was very upset and angered by those four violent incidents which happened in the ’10 off season and then by the SI article that highlighted them again in the national press along with PITT being #1 of the preseason Top 25 teams with players arrested.

Fans blow that SI article off but it and that whole series of issues that year changed the course of how the football program was going to be run. We are seeing the fallout from that writ large with the personnel decisions being made last season and especially this year.

I didn’t 100% know that Chapman was going to be dismissed but at the practice yesterday we were discussing it and the consensus was that no one would be surprised at all if the Chancellor went that way. I can tell you that it didn’t seem to effect the seniors in attendance at the luncheon today as they were cracking everyone up with their introducing the seniors next to them and had a great time doing it.

I’ve been saying for a long time and have many conversations about the fact that the university will not tolerate being embarrassed on a local or national stage by the actions of the football players or the coaching staffs. That isn’t just lip service by Chancellor Nordenberg but something he takes very seriously. We saw that in the decision he made today.

Comment by Reed 08.23.13 @ 5:26 pm

I would hope this is the start of tougher treatment for the kids representing our University. I doubt all of the players could get into Pitt on their academic records alone, but they should at least not have criminal records.
In fact the NCAA should demand clean records on all participants, the coddled athlete should be eliminated.

Comment by Jimbo 08.23.13 @ 5:28 pm

gc, I can make an argument that the action by Chapman was a one-time, heat-of-the-moment poor choice that caused no physical impairment .. while Dorsett’s actions were a premeditated, blatant disregard of the university laws over 4 years.

UPittBB …Ohio State a few weeks ago turned Urban’s previous school into the NCAA on 2 recruiting violations …. which the NCAA looked into and found nothing. Of course, Urban says he didn’t have anything to do with it.

Further, OSU’s starting RB was accused of assault by a girl in Columbus, which to the surprise of no one, was dropped. The RB was suspended for 1 game.

Listen, as I said previously, I believe the decision was correct. However, if this definitely the QB of our future and we were ranked as high as OSU, I guarantee that all of you on this site would not be on your high horses .. but instead rationalizing like I did in a previous post above.

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 6:01 pm

Typically, when an athletic program makes a mistake (and yes it was a mistake to recruit the kid…hindsight or not), it is the coach or AD that addresses the matter and is on public record. I find it highly unusual for the head of an academic institution to comment on these matters. Dare I say its inappropriate. Unless that Chancellor or President is actively involved in the athletic programs (and Nordy is a bystander), this responsibility lies with the coach or AD. Are we saying that neither is competent enough? Are we saying that the Chancellor has no confidence in his AD or football coach? Seriously folks this is not something that the CEO had to address unless there is a leadership crisis in the athletic department. Our AD is being paid to make these decisions and announce them with rationale. Why is Steve P on the payroll???

Comment by TX Panther 08.23.13 @ 6:05 pm

Reed said – I’ve been saying for a long time and have many conversations about the fact that the university will not tolerate being embarrassed on a local or national stage by the actions of the football players or the coaching staffs. That isn’t just lip service by Chancellor Nordenberg but something he takes very seriously. We saw that in the decision he made today. That’s funny Reed because having Steve Pederson the head of athletics is a embarrassment to Pitt everyday he is still employed. He is a joke. If the Athletics Dept was running wild what should you do? Oh and running wild includes not winning to boot. You fire the garbage AD.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 6:09 pm

Emel – I look at us as having 1 NCAA. The other ones don’t count it was 1930 ish and their were about 50 colleges LOL (We are so irrelevant on a national level it’s sick.)
Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 3:37 pm

I have to call you out on this one Upitt.
The other ones count as much as any other colleges count regardless of the era. And there were quite a few more schools playing D1 than 50 I assure you. Because for every Louisville playing now, you had powerhouses like Carnegie Tech & Fordham (7 blocks of Granite) playing D1 back then.

Even if there was only 50 schools(and there weren’t, even W & J was a power, Carlyle ring a bell), does the fact only 32 teams or less played in the NCAA basketball tournament in the 1960’s make UCLA’s championships in that era, any less ?

Furthermore all these schools claim National Titles that you say are irrelevant:

Michigan 1901,1902,1903, 1933
LSU 1908
Auburn 1913
Texas 1914
Oklahoma 1915
Georgia Tech 1917
Texas A & M 1919
California 1920
Iowa 1921
Alabama 1925, 1930
Stanford 1926
USC 1928 (that would be Southern Cal)
Purdue 1931

I could on, but 50 colleges, I didn’t even mention in the early 1900’s all the Ivy’s were relevant. In Pittsburgh alone we had 3 national powers, PITT, Carnegie Tech & Duquesne. And W & J just outside Pgh.

Additionally if you don’t count ours from previous eras, who’s to say that kids born in 1999 (23 years after 1976) who will be freshmen at Pitt in 2016 have any knowledge or any idea of anything about Pitt football’s latest national championship season.

No, college football is supposed to be about tradition, which is composed of history & customs and that history is the whole history. Not just the history you live in !

Please don’t attempt to belittle our history !

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 6:10 pm

Maybe after the Rutgers Mike Rice situation, Nordy has taken a lead in athletic issues of law breaking. TT was HCPC issue, Shell was a HCPC issue and decision not to take him back.

Comment by chethejet 08.23.13 @ 6:12 pm

wbb-> Regarding the likelihood that a non-athlete with the same situation still being at Pitt: I think that conclusion is probably correct. However, it would be because the University administration probably would not have any knowledge of the event if it involved a non-athlete. With a non-athlete, this kind of episode would either have gotten no press at all or would have only appeared in the kid’s hometown local paper as a footnote about the size of an “obit.” it just goes to show that if you are in the public “eye” you really have to maintain a low profile and stay squeaky clean. Also, the Dorsett parking ticket thing, presuming its true, occurred in an era without internet, cell phones, facebook and tweets and never made news headlines–so it never gave the University wide-spread bad publicity. Bottom line, if an athlete at Pitt does something wrong that results in widespread bad-publicity for the University than the level of punishment is going to reflect the level of “bad optics.” That’s just a fact of life in 2013.

Comment by pitt1972 08.23.13 @ 6:14 pm

+1 TX Panther

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 6:16 pm

wbb, I agree with your last statement. That is why Paterno is being defended and PSU is trying to renegotiate. Hell, even our illustrious Governor filed suit.

It is easy to look the other way and rationalize when your team is on top. Part of being a fan I guess. We are no better than anyone else in that regard.

Was Tony D ever convicted? I joke. It wasn’t just the University that looked the other way. Again, times have changed, I doubt that even the great Tony D would have to pay those parking tickets today. Big Ben…maybe not.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 6:17 pm

UPittBB, I agree. This AD hired a coach who had a child out of wedlock, and then assaulted her a few weeks after being hires; then less than 2 weeks later, forces the school to pay $600k over his budget to hire a guy with a history of being disloyal, who sure enough leaves without notice … yet this AD is not only retained, but given a raise … and is now riding the high horse like the rest of you.

Comment by wbb 08.23.13 @ 6:18 pm

Anyway….it’s time for some FRiday Nite Entertainment.

Have fun & be safe…. my Pitt bro’s.

It’s nice to know we have a very diverse and very opinionated alumni & fan base, we are not monolithic zombies. We don’t dress like it nor think like it. So I guess that is the positive of not having a PedoJoe like character associated with our program. It might have something to do with the great University we went to and the fact it is in the great city of Pittsburgh.

We all need to regroup & reform the ranks for the Seminole invasion of Pittsburgh.

VeV !

Comment by EMel 08.23.13 @ 6:24 pm


I was making a point of being relevant. The modern era is a better way to put it. What we did in 1930’s against the likes of Carnegie Tech as you say and the others doesn’t mean much to this generation. My point is why does a program with such rich history and more recent history of success the Dorsett / Marino years suck so bad in the mid 80’s, 1990’s and 2000’s. I’m really just asking because I don’t know. Administration? Lack of recruiting on a national level? People moving away from Pittsburgh for work?

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 6:24 pm

WBB – If Pederson worked at any other Division 1 Program out of 100 with that performance he would have been fired 100 times out of 100. He must have pictures of Nordy with Donna Sanf, a Midget, a Horse and dressed in all leather with a gag ball in his mouth.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 6:27 pm

I disagree with Pitt’s decision on Chapman. If Pitt is correct, does that mean that every school should deny this kid entry now? This is the first time this 18-year-old kid got into trouble – where is the “Veritas et Virtus” in kicking him out of school versus trying to help him be the best person he can be?

The incident didn’t happen at Pitt, so why is it better for Chapman to continue his education elsewhere? That’s a ridiculous statement.

Only thing that makes sense to me is that Pitt is trying to cover their butt in the lawsuit with Haywood.

So the Judge puts it to Chapman with extra punishment to make an example because he’s a big name in that area; then Pitt piles on by kicking him out of school. I feel bad for the kid.

Comment by MajorMajors 08.23.13 @ 6:40 pm

I’ll bring some Texas long cannons up for the Seminole invasion. They worked against the Cherokees and Comanche’s in my area back in 50’s…1850 that is. Lets hope that Pitt’s QB has some long range missiles in his arsenal and our defense takes no prisoners. Send them Injuns back to their swamp. How the heck can a school’s mascot be an Indian these days? Oh wait, FSU paid off the Seminole nation.

Comment by TX Panther 08.23.13 @ 7:11 pm

Back at ya Emel, Only wear Blue and Gold when you want to.

Beat FSU! or something with more alliteration.

Comment by gc 08.23.13 @ 7:14 pm

WOW…..God gives second chances….Why don’t pitt.

Comment by Michael 08.23.13 @ 7:26 pm

MajorMajors, well said. Agree.

Comment by steve1 08.23.13 @ 7:59 pm

Pitt shouldn’t cast stones and it can’t afford to. I do believe the kid deserves a second chance and that chance being with Pitt after penance and many mea culpas. However I do also believe our AD has run out of chances. Thank you very much for the hypocrisy Pitt. I guess the rules of the game are different when your boss is your friend. Why does Stevie deserve multiple chances after proven ineptitude when a young stupid kid doesn’t deserve a chance at redemption. Our shit smells just like other schools. Let’s not pretend to be something we are not. We all make mistakes. What defines us is how we handle adversity. Pitt made the easy call. I want a leader that has some chutzpah.

Comment by TX Panther 08.23.13 @ 8:38 pm

Chapman will get his second chance at WVcc. As life goes, this may turn out to be a blessing in his life.

Comment by HbgFrank 08.23.13 @ 8:57 pm

@ Michael, because God is the always forgiving almighty omnipresent devine entity and Pitt isn’t.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.23.13 @ 9:07 pm

Teddy Bridgewater will go pro after the 2014 season. Chapman should call Coach Strong. His only issue is he isn’t from South Florida.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 9:17 pm

Great decision but make it quickly and move on. Screwing around for 3 weeks on this is what makes the University look bad.

Comment by PittStadiumShuffle 08.23.13 @ 9:32 pm

If Pitt was God, then the second coming of Steve P must be Pitt’s cruel sense of humour. Or we are actually in Hell already.

Comment by TX Panther 08.23.13 @ 9:33 pm

Texas Panther – It does feel pretty hot down here. Why does everyone have horns? LOL

Going to TCU vs. LSU if you want to join. TCU is supposed to be better. Will have on the purple and gold on for the wife.

Let me know.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.23.13 @ 9:48 pm


Can Chapman transfer to Louisville, another ACC school?

Comment by Pitt2Cali 08.23.13 @ 10:05 pm

I’ll disagree with the majority here. First, there would have been no picketing or boycotting or national media attention. Pitt is an afterthought in local sports, let alone the national spotlight because we are just not relevant under the administration.

Second, Peterson is putting the screws to Paul Chryst and to the wealthy alumni who exerted his power over the AD to bring in Chryst. The more Pederson can suppress Paul Chryst from winning, the quicker the public (and blatherites) will call for the firing of the coach in a year or two. SP is spoon feeding everyone.

Three, this does NOT help recruiting and in fact, hurts it. High School coaches and parents want an administration that will help their sons and daughters as best as possible, when there is the slightest bit of trouble that comes their kids way. If anybody thinks this was a serious issue that happened at his home in Kent, you may want to check the headlines of the news again to see what is really going on in society. Before anyone says I am supporting violence against women, chill out. The issue was that there was no violence against a woman. There was an attempted assault. Think of Tino and all the attempts he had. Many incompletions. Assault is when it actually happens. Attempt is when it falls short of the intended target, like tino’s passes.See comment 1 above as well.

A coach and a university is responsible for helping shape kids lives, not ruin them. Nordenburg and Peterson have not helped this young man move on. In fact, they have penalized him and embarrassed the university for hamstringing the kid.

Pitt does not have to worry about preserving or creating a culture of academics and sports. The culture is about academics, not sports. That is why Pitt will never make it to the big time using their current model and current personnel. As you all know, I support everything Pitt (except for the AD) and this decision. Pitt has no idea about risk appetite, reputational harm and brand protection. Peterson is playing Chryst and the powerful alumnus like a fiddle. He ruined Nebraska and he has done his best to ruin Pitt. Sorry guys, bad day for Pitt.

Comment by dhuffdaddy 08.23.13 @ 10:11 pm

I have to agree with Chapman’s dismissal. Sure, I want a winning football program, but I want it with integrity. It’s the same in life. I want to make a lot of money, but I don’t want to screw people over to do it. If that means I make less money, so be it.

Comment by panther94 08.23.13 @ 10:25 pm

“Sad day for all. He enrolled early and Pitt did a good piece on him on live wire but the decision is correct! He had to go! Pitt does need to step up the recruiting on quarterbacks! Haven’t had a really good blue chipper since Dan the Man!”
Except for:
Joe Flacco&, QB (Baltimore Ravens)

Comment by TVax 08.23.13 @ 10:58 pm

I beg to differ with those who think shell leaving or Chapman being excused is a bad thing. It is in fact a positive. Parents have to trust the coach and University to have a program that places integrity and character first and foremost. Recruits who are looking for a program that does things the right way are so few. Pitt will attract recruits that like what Pitt stands for.

Comment by chethejet 08.23.13 @ 11:34 pm

Right now I accept and trust the fact that this regime is looking at each case individually and judging them on their merits relative to the university.

Thus I would have accepted this going either way.

It is a problem that they did not do this 2 weeks ago… come on.. literally 1 day before classes start??

No doubt this university and HC means business about not letting things go the way the use to go…

Comment by Pittscript 08.24.13 @ 12:04 am

Right now I accept and trust the fact that this regime is looking at each case individually and judging them on their merits relative to the university.

Thus I would have accepted this going either way.

It is a problem that they did not do this 2 weeks ago… come on.. literally 1 day before classes start??

No doubt this university and HC means business about not letting things go the way the use to go…

Comment by Pittscript 08.24.13 @ 12:04 am

There are plenty of minor offenses for which the Pitt administration and coach Chryst hand out a reasonable punishment and then reinstate the player. This one is simple. Get convicted of assaulting your girlfriend; say goodbye. This kid will learn a lesson from this. Stop selling out your morals for a kid who has never even seen the field yet. He may have washed out or transferred anyway.

Comment by PittStadiumShuffle 08.24.13 @ 12:22 am

We did recruit a 5 star QB recently, his name was Pat Bostick, he was played to early, yet led us to a huge road victory at Notre Dame and of course the colossal win over nc game bound WVcc.
(Pitt’s biggest signature win since the ’81 Sugar Bowl). All in his true freshman year.

He just had the unfortunate time of being at Pitt when a legacy/former Pitt All-American/coach’s son was programmed/set to be our starting QB.
(come hell or high water)

Legacy & nepotism & coaching fraternity ground rules….. trumps all. (same as corporate & political world)

Bostick very well could be #2 in the Pitt record books. But just like Ben Roethlisberger, who only started his senior season in HS because of the coach’s son graduating, and promptly broke most Ohio HS QB records. Had Ben been 1 year younger, we’d NEVER would have known about him, as he never would have got the chance to play QB, never played QB in college and the Steelers more than likely don’t win 2 Super Bowls in the 2000’s.

You wonder how many kids got screwed like this.
I know several myself.

Pitt took the easy way out with Chapman. He made a commitment to them in January of 2013(actually earlier in 2012 but enrolled in Jan), but as soon as some scorned ex-girlfriend accuses him of something, Nordy & Smiley threw him off the ship.
They would be considered a Captain Blye.

Very few ppl are beyond reproach, including the idiot we have as AD. His mistakes are boundless and those mistakes far more ridiculed the University for far more many years than anything Chapman did.

After all Chapman is just a 17 or 18 yr old kid.
And the woman you all crow about was just a 17 or 18 yr old girl as well or younger(hardly a woman). Teenagers, this wasn’t some married domestic dispute. It was two teenage kids. Probably one scorned ex-GF who more than likely had in it for being ‘left behind’ in Kent while this kid went to the big city. Off to bigger and better things, so she thought. Why is assault on a girl any different than assault on a boy ?
These girls/women today commit crimes, kill their children, kill men. If one threatens you with a gun or a weapon, you’re aren’t going to knock the crap out of them. Get real, this isn’t the days when women were at home raising kids, these woman are out in the real world and they do almost as many evil things as men do. And they’re catching up quick.

Smiley is a grown adult approaching 60 yrs. old.
And getting paid a small fortune to manage Pitt’s athletic dept.

All this decision says is; if you’re not connected and you’re an embarrassment to the University… you’re gone. But if you are ‘connected’…. well don’t worry Uncle Mark will take care of you.

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 12:25 am

Thanks for the eloquent explanation of what I was writing. Let me add this: I wonder if some of the regulars here are fans of athletics. Their attitudes and statements of support for the Pitt administration belong in Pitt magazine or websites devoted to fine arts, engineering, etc., not big time college athletics.

But this is a website about athletics, not those other disciplines. Nordenberg is every bit as responsible as Pederson in this debacle. And both men are arrogant and greedy.

They want Pitt to be big time when it comes to revenue, so they back-stabbed fellow Big East members to join the second-rate ACC, all the while boasting about the big money they would earn for Pitt.

The ACC managed to wheedle its way as the fifth wheel in a college football super alignment, but only two ACC teams are even considered in the national discussion – Clemson and Florida State.

In fact, SBNation has picked Pitt over Miami in the season finale. That says a lot about what’s expected from Miami this season.

Do the regulars on this sports board ever read ESPN, CNNSI, Yahoo sports, etc.? Do they even have a clue how other schools are handling discipline issues?

Nordenberg’s dismissal of Chapman reeks of hypocrisy. Here is the so-called leader of Pitt who appoints Pitt’s representative on the UPMC board who won’t even meet with community representatives from Braddock who are pleading to keep their health care facility – a facility that has been shoved out of the market place by Nordenberg’s predatory tactics – open. Nordenberg, who fancies himself kin to the British royal family, refuses to even acknowledge them.

Pederson is a bold-faced liar. Some of the regulars on this board actually believe Pederson went to bat for Chapman? Really, guys? What have you been smoking? You are deluded.

Pederson wouldn’t even meet with the players after he fumbled the Wannstedt firing and didn’t meet with assistant coaches until after he totally fucked up hiring Wannstedt’s first replacement.

Nordenberg and Pederson don’t stand for integrity. They aren’t even being good school administrators in this case. Nordenberg took Pederson’s advice and that was it. Chapman was a college student who honestly pleaded to attempting – ATTEMPTING – to assault a woman.

As I wrote previously, Chapman should have been punished and let back on the team this year. To do anything else sends the message to local coaches that Pitt is being Pitt – small time, petty, half-assed about its commitment to big-time football, but most damaging at all – doesn’t give a fuck about the welfare of its student athletes.

How many more athletes are you guys going to support being run out of the program? How long is Chryst or any head coach with dignity going to put up with this kind of interference?

As wbb wrote, you disagree with my viewpoint and you support Nordenberg now, but what will you think several seasons from now…with Chryst long gone and Pitt mired in mediocrity – if the football program achieves even that?

And one last point for those Graham bashers who seem to never miss an opportunity to put him down.
Graham couldn’t get away from Pederson and Nordenberg fast enough. Yes, he is a self-serving career-climber who just happens to be a very talented football coach. We will never know what Pederson did or said to him to fuel his exit.

Obviously, Pederson’s arrogance in refusing to even meet with him was icing on the cake.

Graham is typical of winning major college coaches. They aren’t going to let the school AD interfere in their program, especially one as incompetent as Steve Pederson. So, yes, we can criticize Graham’s method of exit but don’t discount what he saw in Pederson and Nordenberg.

Graham is predicted to have a big season at ASU.

Comment by TonyinHouston 08.24.13 @ 12:34 am

Stop selling out your morals for a kid who has never even seen the field yet. He may have washed out or transferred anyway.

Comment by PittStadiumShuffle 08.24.13 @ 12:22 am

So what you’re saying is; if the kid had seen the field and let’s say he was the star QB, you would sell out your supposed morals based on that.

My morals are fine, what I dislike is hypocrisy.

And the fact, Pederson’s actions far more embarrassed PITT than this kid did. He not only has been kept at PITT, he was given an …..EXTENSION ON HIS CONTRACT !!!

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 1:28 am

Can we stop the constant focus on what PITT chose to do oe not to do and refocus on what actually happened to start all of this.

Tra’von Chapman choked and held captive a young girl. The violent act may have been one of passion but not allowing her to leave for hours ratched up the situation immensely – and it shows that his decision making was not only poor but turned criminal.

Everyone is hollering about “just one mistake and all kids make them” Yes, snapping out at his girlfriend would fall under that criteria. However, purposefully holding her against her will wasn’t a snap judgement – it was a calculated action and was probably the basis for the harsh sentence. It shows that Chapman felt he had the right to basically kidnap somebody.

And that showed during the legal proceedings when he was forced to plead guilty to avoid prison and instead was awarded a 90 day jail sentence. Had that trial gone to a jury he very well may have had a much harsher sentence imposed.

The bottom line is that first time offenders do not get sentenced to 90 days incarceration unless the situation is dead ass serious. Three whole months is a huge chunk of time and basically shoots down your resume’ later in life. PITT fans forget about those other 87 days in jail that is hanging over his head.

From a pure football stand point consider this. Let’s say Chapman was reinstated and suspended for a year. He then gets onto the roster in 2014 and wins the staring job.

OK? Now he gets arrested for anything at all, even something minor like drinking beer underage. Boom! That breaks his sentencing agreement and he is back in jail for 87 days… or the whole football season. Now not only does that show a lack of judgement on Chapman’s part but also on PITT’s.

Forget about the public perception aspect of this from PITT’s POV – which is huge to be true, and yes you can be allowing his returns would be national news given the events of 2010. The Chancellor looked at this situation and held Chapman to a standard that is set for PITT’s agreement of scholarship.

As to the timing – personally I could care less. Nordenberg obviously wanted all the facts and advisement he could get in this issue, which is what his job is to do, and then put it onto the list of hundreds of other things he has to decide on not only as the chancellor but as a departing one who is mandated to leave PITT in the best shape he can.

Its is a crappy situation all around but the onus and the focus should be on Chapman as he started the whole circus.

Comment by Reed 08.24.13 @ 6:17 am

UPITT – I’ve not one problem with firing SP it it is completely warranted. Personally, I think that we see only the public side of things, at least I do when it comes to the AD, and thus would want to know the 100% of what is effect on the athletic department as a whole is.

As I said, I understand completely the reasons people feel SP should be let go but I also understand that there are two sides to every coin and I can’t see all of the private and internal side.

Notice that I also don’t advocate retaining SP for those exact same reasons.

Comment by Reed 08.24.13 @ 6:23 am

Reed, isn’t it something that when it comes toa kid who makes a mistake, all you see is BLACK AND WHITE while when it comes to a professional making big $$, you claim there are ‘two side to every coin’

Maybe you should note that according DiPaola’s interview on The Fan yesterday afternoon, after talking to many people in Kent, there was no choking, marks on her person nor was she treated medically. While he agreed that Pitt made the decision it had to make, it could be that Chapman is merelya victim of circumstance based on everything else that went down. Further, he also agrees that your almighty Pitt administration once again BLEW IT BIG TIME with the timing of the decision. (see link below)

link to

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 6:42 am

I like Pitt’s chances on opening night. I would definitiely take the points. I can’t wait to see a sold out Heinz and how the kids react to the crowd. Wish I could be there.

Comment by PittStadiumShuffle 08.24.13 @ 7:38 am

Pittstadium – the line is 10. I love pitt but im putting money on FSU minus 10. Feels like a sucker bet but oh well.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 8:36 am

wbb – please, do you honestly believe that Chapman and his attorney would have plea guilty if there was no factual evidence of assault? Really? If so then Chapman, the attorney and Chapman’s parents are the dumbest people in Ohio. The fact that the prosecution went down to attempted assault and the judge suspended 87 days of that sentence tells me the state of Ohio bent over backwards to give Chapman the benefit of a second chance

The salient point in that article you linked to is Chapman’s father was this:

“His father, Thad Jemison, a former wide receivers coach at Kent State, said he was disappointed in the timing of the dismissal, coming three days before the start of Pitt’s new semester and at the end of training camp for most college teams.

“He did something wrong; don’t get me wrong,” Jemison said. “He made a bad decision.

“But don’t string the kid out. The same information they had when he first went to the hearing (July 29) is the same information they have now. If they are going to make this decision, they could have made it three weeks ago.”

Notice that not once does Tra’von’s own father, who is a football coach himself, ever say that his son should have been reinstated. Guess why? because he might have made the same decision PITT did.

Also note that the author of that article puts things rather honestly and bluntly when he says:

“In the end, the nature of his crime — and the guilty plea that led to a jail term — were decisive factors for the university.”

I’ll agree that the decision could have been made earlier but I’ll also say that the Chapman family could also have withdrawn Tra’von from PITT and enrolled elsewhere, in time to play football in 2013 if he chose to go down in divisions, at any point since the sentencing. They rolled the dice and lost.

I’ve been saying all along that I didn’t know what PITT would do but that I thought a dismissal was possible given the issues in the case. The anger in this decision is misplaced IMO as it should be directed towards what began the situation in the first place.

What is pissing off PITT fans is that Nordenberg didn’t but an athlete or athletics above the university but that he made a decision they didn’t like.

Comment by Reed 08.24.13 @ 8:38 am


“In the end, the nature of his crime — and the guilty plea that led to a jail term — were decisive factors for the university.”

DiPaola didn’t say “what he was charged with” or “what he was alleged to have done” he said “the nature of his crime”. Let’s not selectively read things here – DiPaola understands that a crime was committed and also the seriousness of it.

Also notice that not one person is ‘disputing’the charge’ of “unwanted restraint” which is as serious as putting hands on his girlfriend. Not the media, Chapman himself or his family, as a matter of fact the Chapmans haven’t disputed anything at all, up to and including the decision to plead guilty and now through PITT dismissal decision.

Talk about revising history, all of a sudden after PITT comes out with a decision, the facts of the situation change.

Comment by Reed 08.24.13 @ 8:47 am

Pitt2cali – I think he can go anywhere he was dismissed from the program. I think Kentucky or L’Ville

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 8:52 am

link to

This may help to explain why the decision to dismiss was made and why it took some time to make it.

Comment by HbgFrank 08.24.13 @ 8:58 am

Reed – once again a voice of reason.

I understood from another source that suggested HCPC, The AD and the Chancellor really struggled with this decision and its impact on both Chapman AND Pitt. This was a much harder decision for them than any of the others.

I had also heard that the reason the process took so long is they agreed that HCPC should conduct a “litmus test” to assess Chapman a bit further and HCPC concluded that he didn’t pass. Don’t know why or how. Or “if” for that matter.

SMH that some folks don’t understand that a 90 day jail sentence with 87 suspended is a big, serious deal. Jerry DiPaola is a wonderful reporter, but he’s not a judge armed with all the facts.

The situation is terribly disappointing, but its hardly the fault of the administration or Chryst.

Comment by Joe Lawrence 08.24.13 @ 9:13 am

When Nordy finally steps down and a replacement is picked I give it two years and Pederson will be gone. The only reason he has his job still is because he is buddies with Nordy! I pray Chryst works out and is still at Pitt when this happens because I don’t think I can go through another coaching search!

Thank goodness we are talking more about FSU and less about Chapman! FSU has speed, speed and more speed but with a lot of those types of teams, if you smack them in the mouth consistently, they will back down! If we get off the ball like we did against Notre Dame, we got a real shot to shock the world on national television! I’m a teacher and my first day of school is of course the next day after the game, gonna be a long day! Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Sweet Caroline 08.24.13 @ 9:18 am

Tony, much better analysis, I even agree with some of it. Arrogant and greedy much better than stupid and cheap.

I also agree on Bostick and Pedersen.

I don’t agree that this decision was made cavalierly, or that the kid wasn’t given a fair hearing. I do believe that the decision wasn’t made in a vacuum and was impacted by the current environment, Haywood, other recent dismissals etc. I am sure that the Universities lawyers weighed in on this. It was obviously not an easy decision.

Chapman, like Rushel Shell will be fine, playing at another institution, we all hope that he does well.

The debate has been fun and will continue, for now I agree to disagree that we are on the wrong track and that doom and gloom is inevitable.

I am hoping that we see the results of the teams effort and renewed commitment next Saturday.

Comment by gc 08.24.13 @ 9:34 am

GC. You mean Monday.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 9:46 am


Comment by gc 08.24.13 @ 9:51 am

wbb – please, do you honestly believe that Chapman and his attorney would have plea guilty if there was no factual evidence of assault? Really?

Reed, I believe it is very possible that if the gender of the judge was different, Chapman would still be a member of the Pitt FB team

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 9:51 am

But the point I was trying to make about you is that if a kid does something, you act like he is a total piece of shit …. but you’re very willing at both sides of the story if a person of authority does something wrong … even when he was fired previously for the same action.

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 9:55 am

All of this back and forth debate, the various opinions on who acted which way and for what underlying reasons could ALL have been avoided in the first place by one simple “act of ommission”,

Tra’von Chapman putting his hands on his exgirlfriend in anger.

If that never happened then all of this current “NOISE” is irrelevant!

Good luck to Chapman in the future, FSU in nine days. Focus!

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.24.13 @ 9:56 am

This program ha become a circus under Wanny and big money people wanted this embarrassment cleaned up. HCPC was hired to bring the program under control and lend stability. He has done that while coaching the players he inherited last year. Now he has one of his class and I will give him the last class was a class he accepted. One more class in tow and that is when the program will need to demonstrate improvement on the field.

Comment by chethejet 08.24.13 @ 9:58 am

Hey people, look at my very 1st posting on this blog. I’m not disputing the decision, just the fact that too many people here just stand behind the Pitt coach and admin no matter what … and continue to rationalize everything they do.

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 10:07 am

Pederson’s incompetence and Chapman’s criminal activities are not equivalent. While most think that Pederson is criminally bad at his job, it isn’t actually illegal for him to be. There isn’t hypocrisy by saying, “We don’t know all that Pederson does behind closed doors, but we know that Chapman plead guilty to a crime- involving violence against a female.”

This is another one of those clear cases where a number of people let their clear hatred for SP cloud their judgment. His failures have nothing to do with the Chapman case.

For the record, I would be just fine with SP getting fired and I would have been just fine with Chapman being let back on the team.

Comment by kanyon40 08.24.13 @ 10:17 am

Isn’t it funny how many people here thought that Thomas should have been kicked off the team … until he was reinstated, then they rationalized that PC made the right decision.

a few years ago when the Jim Tressel situation broke open at OSU, our friends at Happy valley was telling the Buckeye fans that you may have had the superior program over the last decade, but at least we do things the right way at PSU.

Now that these very same fans have found out that PSU didn’t really do things the right way (and I mean REALLY didn’t do things the right way) … are these same fans down on the administration who erred so badly? No, they are blaming the NCAA!!

It’s called rationalization people and we are as guilty as anyone …. and like it or not, discipline becomes the redeeming factor when you are stuck in a mediocre program.

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 10:38 am

PG had it right this morning. This was simply a legal decision! Wife beating coach has a $4 million lawsuit against Pitt for the same behavior then dismissed. If Pitt lets Cahpman back, it sets a precedent and Pitt will lose this one big!

I feel sorry for Chapman to a point and wish Pitt could have given him a second chance.

Comment by Dan 72 08.24.13 @ 10:46 am

It doesn’t look good for the University to be associated with women beaters. I can’t say I have a problem with that but I still feel bad for this kid. I hope he turns it around and overcomes this mess and makes something out of himself. One bad mistake made at his age doesn’t have to define his future.

Comment by spiritofsection 22 08.24.13 @ 11:18 am

DiPaola is an idiot! Who is his source?? The Kent high school football coach who is as crooked as they come? I’ve lived in Kent my whole life. This is a football town. These coaches will do whatever they can to protect these football players. Why do you think Coach Nemec was quoted as saying that Chapman is a good kid that has watched his grandkids? Playing on the heart strings much? Here’s a news flash for you all: This abuse has been going on for two years. There have been black eyes, finger prints on her arms and neck, constant bruises, etc. Luckily she finally found the courage to report him. So DiPaola can shove his so called sources up his ass.

Comment by amans 08.24.13 @ 11:48 am

wbb, don’t you think that the folks that disagree with everything that Pitt does rationalize as well.

That because Pedersen has made some extremely bad calls that everything he does is wrong.

We are all tainted by our mindset. Because I believe that JoePa was a sanctimonious, self-serving phony, makes it easy for me to understand his behavior regarding Sandusky. It doesn’t mean that he didn’t do a lot of good things for a lot of people.

When we take a side in an argument, we want to win, and we make our case. We all rationalize to some extent. Rarely are these issues black and white.

I enjoy the repartee with fellow Pitt Fans. I, like EMel am glad we are not a homogeneous bunch of lemmings. I would love to hear the uproar if Chryst demanded all visitors wear only blue and gold. LOL

Pitt has made the decision that while we can’t control winning or losing, we can’t condone athletes that are poor students, drug addled, or thugs, and that to a great extent we can control that. That is the rationale for the change in culture.

Recently there was a kid shot and killed in front of the Big O., apparently over nothing. Thank God there were no Pitt athletes involved. You may call it a rationalization, but I am in favor of what Pitt is trying to do. There will be mistakes along the way and I am not one for blind loyalty, but overall, I think we are headed in the right direction.

Comment by gc 08.24.13 @ 12:22 pm

gc, You could be right, maybe Pitt is headed in the right direction. College football isn’t, pro football isn’t and from what I can see the country isn’t so lots of luck. The “O” incident is a great example. Black kid shoots white kid in the back as he is running away and claims self defense. All that noise in the Zimmerman/ Martin fiasco but not much racquet about this one. Basketball player comes out of closet and media makes him out to be the new Jackie Robinson. Please. The Pirates could actually win it all. To quote Lombardi what the hell is goin’ on.

Comment by spiritofsection 22 08.24.13 @ 12:39 pm

gc, what I’m saying is that Chapman was reinstated, almost all of you would be rationalizing that this was the correct decision .. whether you want to admit it or not.

I’m also saying that Pitt history shows if mediocre FB is maintained over the next couple of years, then these alleged strict standards will be eased up.(as I documented above)

Here’s what Dokish says:

Chris DokishAugust 23, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Sure. One school wants to win at no cost and one doesn’t. When Pitt was excellent they had a lot of criminals who were stars. They don’t play that way anymore.

History shows that they might play that way sometime in the future

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 1:02 pm

Happy hour anytime for me. I work in Las Colinas but live in Mansfield. The Dallas Pitt Club will probably have some functions shortly. I plan on attending a few this year despite having to travel 50 miles to Addison. We need to start a Tarrant County Club.

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 1:04 pm

I don’t think Pitt needs criminals to win. But I do think they need a new competent AD, a Chancellor that emphasizes athletics nearly as much as academics, and of course a new On Campus Stadium…I had to get that in guys.

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 1:08 pm

I disagree with Dokish, our horrible teams have had just as many criminals as our excellent teams did. I agree we don’t play that great anymore but we are every bit as criminal as ever.

Comment by spiritofsection 22 08.24.13 @ 1:09 pm

It’s criminal that our AD still has a job and a job that pays him close to 600k a year. I don’t think Nordy gets paid that much. I wish I had a boss that looked past my gross incompetence and I wish I had the blind luck of being available when the ACC called since UConn was being blocked by BC. Shucking corn might be the only thing Stevie is good at.

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 1:20 pm

I hope you all feel the same when its your daughter getting smacked around by her boyfriend.

Comment by sam knocken 08.24.13 @ 1:25 pm

wbb, you speak only for yourself, not for anyone else — cut the ‘you all would do this or think this…’ crap. You don’t know what anyone else would do or say except for yourself…its absurdly arrogant for you to tell us what we’d do in another instance, so give the arguing both sides of the fence thing a rest.

Nobody is on a high horse here, it just looks that way because you’re down wriggling in the mud. Sorry for sounding harsh, but your constant braying is tedious.

Comment by Matt N. 08.24.13 @ 1:31 pm

Matt, I just saw an example a week ago where many on this site didn’t have a good word about Thomas, and then rationalized when he was reinstated

Go to the archives … this site was pro-Graham on 12/7/11 (to the point that I was calling it Graham Apologist Central, and nobody agreed with me then) … and then the next day, all of the pro-Graham talk disappeared.

I also documented the history of Pitt football over (nearly) the past 50 years, and shown where there had been big swings in the priorities of the fB program.

What else do you want me to say?

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 1:44 pm

wbb, I am not smart enough to know whether the decision was the “right” one. I understand it and am ok with it. You are correct in thinking I would have been ok if they let him come back. I don’t think it is black and white, it was a tough decision and I am ok with the fact it was made in a professional manner.

Regarding Thomas, you know I wanted him to have a fair hearing, which he did. I think the correct decision was made. I would not have liked it if they let him go, but I would not have been apoplectic and threatened to withhold my love and support of Pitt.

Regarding Shell, I suggested that a vote be taken by the team. I was laughed at, but apparently Chryst did consult the players regarding Thomas.
Again, although I would like to have Shell in a Pitt uniform, I could live with the decision.

I grew up during the sixties, so I believe in questioning authority. However, in general, I am going to support Chryst until he shows me I shouldn’t. I like most, don’t understand why Pedersen has a job.

Nordenberg will go down as the greatest Chancellor since Litchfield. He has had a major impact on the success of the University.

Regarding the ups and downs, they only time they really opened the purse strings was with Majors and recruiting 100 guys. I was on a team at the time and got to eat at the training table, what a difference before and after.

Sherrill left for a million dollar contract and we couldn’t compete.

I really don’t remember too many criminals, I think you stretch it with Dorsett’s parking tickets. Heywood comes to mind, he was a thug and made the papers. Demetrious Gore was caught with a gun, but I think after he left. I am sure there were others, but I don’t remember criminality being prevalent.

Will we lower our standards for athletes in the future, maybe, but not for a while. Who knows, maybe we are trend setters.

Money is a bigger issue. The ACC will help. A full house will help more. Coaching staffs, and big time recruiting costs big bucks.

Comment by gc 08.24.13 @ 1:49 pm

BTE, I would like Reed to answer this … if DW was fired due to the SI issue, and discipline became the major issue for the hiring like he stressed at Heyward’s hiring, then why was Holgerson his 2nd choice? (a guy who already had behavioral issues)

link to

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 1:59 pm

gc, I wasn’t talking necessarily about or anyone in particular .. I am referring to the overall thinking of the site. It would be so easy to jump on the bandwagon, and agree with everyone else … go with the flow. But then, I’d be betraying myself.

I have no agenda here. I’m not like Joe D who I believe is negative for just the sake of being negative. I just abhor mob mentality when I think there are other sides to look at. I also try to learn the lessons of history, and have been amazed way before this by the ebb and flow of the FB program thru the years.

I’ve said this before …. if Pitt averages 5 wins a year but 0 arrests for the next 2-3 years, what do you think the Pitt Blather mob mentality will be like than?

Comment by wbb 08.24.13 @ 2:06 pm

I demand excellence. I expect an ACC title within 3 years. If Pitt cannot achieve that goal, find leadership that can. That means a new Chancellor, a new AD and a new coach. Let’s stop accepting mediocre as a good word.

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 2:22 pm

Wbb, I agree with the mob mentality, we see it every time something goes wrong and that is quite often.

A virtual lynch mob looking for someone to blame.

TX, that is the funniest thing I have read in weeks. I am sure you have them worried. Are you going to take your ball and go home too?

Comment by gc 08.24.13 @ 2:44 pm

TX Panther – Amen – Call Nordy the savior all you guys want and the fact we are this great school. I think Pitt was an above average school for me nothing more and nothing less. I had a great time and I appreciate the opportunities and support i received. I also loved playing ball there despite Steve Pederson who no one in athletics liked. My point is Athletics essentially still fall under Nordy as Steve Pederson was reporting to Nordy. So crown Nordy all y’all want but guess what athletics has sucked under Nordy’s watch.Go ahead and hammer me all you guys want about what an awesome school we are, etc.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 2:46 pm

TX, maybe when you are done with the Pitt Administrators you can get Congress to get off their asses and get something done too.

Comment by gc 08.24.13 @ 2:47 pm

Good Lord we are down to 58th on list of Public National Universities.

link to

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 2:49 pm

My point is we are not that great of a school on a national level where it is okay to accept mediocrity in Athletics. The problem is Pederson and no one including the chancellor cares about Athletics or why in good conscious would he have a job. Make sports a priority or if not atleast admit we don’t care and go find an AD for 200k.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 2:55 pm

That would make sense. Pitt has an all time 58% winning percentage in football.

Some things are just meant to be ! :-)

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 2:59 pm

think of this most schools were recruitong chapman
as a DB only pitt and maybe 1 outher was going to give him a chance to play QB.
so right or wrong he was a long shot at QB so dont cry over it we have 2 QB in this class so we move on

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.24.13 @ 3:04 pm

Up until Graham & PC we were always ‘underpaying’ the head football coach and vastly ‘underpaying’ the asst.coaches and of course always and I mean always…’Overpaying’ the AD.

In just 3 years Smiley has cost Pitt an extra $3 million dollars. The $6 million they have and will pay out of the 1 year of Graham and 2 years of PC as opposed to the $3 million DW would have got.

Not even to mention DW’s asst’s were all getting paid less than Toad’s or PC’s. So factor in another $1.5 million.

So idiot gets an extension for costing the University at least an extra $4.5 MILLION dollars over just a 3 year period. For an even worse product on the field !!

Gotta love this cronyism.

Keystones Cops can’t compare !

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 3:09 pm

I would love to get Congress off their asses and do something good but even I am not that delusional. I figure why not start with Pitt and then maybe we begin working on making Congress exceptional over the next 100 years. Pitt does have a chance to be truly exceptional in the short term with the right leadership and I think it’s an easier fix than our dysfunctional Congress. I’m willing to do whatever is called of me because I do love my alma mater much like my country despite of its faults. I just want Pitt to be as well balanced as Stanford in academics and athletics. Throwing money at a problem can only do so much and I’m not the leader Pitt needs but like I said I’ll do whatever is asked. I’m willing to walk the walk and go beyond the talk. H2P!

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 3:19 pm

@ Frankie

Wasn’t Chapman’s 4 star rating based on his production as a QB in HS ?

One thing were good at, at Pitt with all the seemingly endless follies, is ….moving on.

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 3:23 pm

Emel – Bucs are ripping out west. Good Thing cause both the Reds and Cards are playing great ball.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 3:25 pm

UPitt, on that list 58th ain’t bad.

Comment by gc 08.24.13 @ 3:26 pm

I’m sure Northwestern, Illinois & BC were recruiting TC to play QB. Arizona under Dickrod offered him as well as a QB.

To be offered by Northwestern (#12), a far better academic school than PITT is impressive.

Well there’s always Adam Bertke.

Come on down Adam, you’re the next contestant on….. The Pitt Follies.

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 3:34 pm

EMel yes he had a 4 star but if you go back and check you will see most schools wanted him as a DB part of the reason he came to pitt was we were going to let him play QB.
the outhers wanted him as a DB.
so he was not a sure thing at QB check it out i read it i would not lie to you.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.24.13 @ 3:38 pm

yeppers Upitt.

Me Buccos have won 4 of 5 on the Left Coast, with our 2 best pitchers going tonite (Liariano) and tomorrow (AJ). The Redlegs lost last nite, the Cards are hot on our tail. Maybe the Braves can win one from them the next 2 games.

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 3:39 pm

The posts calling Pitt irrelevant are correct, and while I admire the consistency of trying to clean up a program that clearly was wreckless under DW, it appears that the University would rather lose with dignity than win with controversy. The truth is all colleges and universities have students who get into trouble and make mistakes. I would never advocate for someone who assaults a woman, but I do think the football team is in for some even leaner years. I hope I am wrong, but I see a handful of wins this and the next few seasons unless the QB issue is resolved and PC proves he can actually recruit against other BCS caliber opponents. H2P

Comment by Brian 08.24.13 @ 3:42 pm

I believe u Frankie, after all you’re our recruiting guru on The Blather.

Anyway, he’s not going to play QB at PITT or anything else for that matter.

He had one of the shortest careers at Pitt, one semester (early enrollee), one missed Blue/Gold game. I think he was going to be #7, some other QB that wears #7 had some female troubles as well.
Bet he was sorry he EVER enrolled early.

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 3:48 pm

EMel i know you are not into bowl tie inbut if we were still in the AAC with u conn you would be so pissed they have one signed bowl tie in with 2 more that might be a sure thing.
that conference is so screwed thank god we got out even cusa have 5 signed bowls poor u conn.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.24.13 @ 3:53 pm

Emel, Would be great to win the division, but I still like our chances in a 1 game playoff. Morton might be the third starter we need in the playoffs too. He has had 3 good outings in a row. They have come a long way since putting 2 second basemen in the hospital to collisions with right fielders during the same week. Hard to imagine but these are the same guys who fired the perogi.

Comment by spiritofsection 22 08.24.13 @ 3:55 pm

Imagine if we actually had good hitters and El Zero didn’t k so much. We would have 85 wins

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 4:10 pm

Yep Frankie,

The AAC is not the place to be !
God Bless BC & Mr. DeFillipo.

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 4:13 pm


That 1 game playoff scares me. The way we don’t hit good pitchers, Liriano would have to almost pitch a shutout for us to win a 1 gamer. Yes Charlie the Tuna is pitching lights out.

And yes we need a bring back the original Perogi movement.

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 4:17 pm

@ upitt

Yea when you look at our batting lineup we have only one (1) .300 hitter and loads of .240 hitters.

Last nite we got the big bomb from the least likely source……Clint Barmes.
Who was only playing cause they decided to give El Zero the nite off.

Who would have thunk it ! haha

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 4:22 pm

More Bowl News Frankie;

ACC misses out on Liberty Bowl.–ncaaf.html

Comment by EMel 08.24.13 @ 4:29 pm

@Upittbaseball – Pitt is NOT 58th among public universities. Pitt is 58th among ALL universities, public and private. That includes Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, etc. The highest ranking public university, as always, is UC Berkeley at 21. I’m upset that PSU is 46 but I’m not at all upset about Pitt being at 58 and remaining in the top 60.

And, FWIW, Pitt is still a university with an athletic department not an athletic business with a mediocre college attached to it. I for one want and expect it to stay that way.

Comment by Pitt Dad 08.24.13 @ 4:57 pm

EMel – Not getting any sleep here staying up to listen to the Bucs. Feel like a kid again.

Hope we can get the same kind of excitement with Pitt Football someday

Comment by Dan 72 08.24.13 @ 6:01 pm

Pitt is a good academic institution for being a semi private school and will become fully privatized very soon thanks to your governor and state legislature. However based on the Directors Cup rankings, Pitt would be lucky to be considered mediocre. Pitt does not value athletics but plays lip service to the ignorant masses. We deserve better. The imbalance between academics and athletics should be a concern.

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 6:15 pm

Pitt is a great academic institution. There are almost 2500 public and private 4 year colleges and universities in the United States. Pitt is number 58. That puts it in the top .02%. How in anyone’s estimation is that not great?

Mediocre athletics? I beg to differ. Perhaps it isn’t as good as it could be but it is far from mediocre.

Once again, you are rooting for the athletic teams of a top tier university. Not the other way around. Priorities people. It’s called the University of Pittsburgh. We root for the teams. We root for our student athletes. But athletics can’t ever come first.

Comment by Pitt Dad 08.24.13 @ 7:04 pm

Pitt Dad, if we arent mediocre please enlighten me or talk to people outside of the burgh to realize how much of a non factor we are. Facts are facts. Maybe you are watching different games. Look what Louisville has done and tell me what differences you see. I wish you were my boss bud.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 7:17 pm

Pitt Dad and TX Panther, just settle yourselves down, after all the debate has concluded the ultimate answer simply remains the same,,,,


Comment by Dr. Tom 08.24.13 @ 7:22 pm

My final comment on the subject. We are good. We have done well in what was the best basketball conference in the country. We have left something to be desired in football. We have done quite well in other sports. We are good. We can be better.

Where I come from (NYC/LI) we are quite relevant academically and athletically. Kids I know WANT to go to Pitt. They KNOW about and appreciate the athletics and our successes. They WANT and ASPIRE to our academics.

Maybe in Texas Pitt is less relevant but where I come from that isn’t the case.

I should add, for the record, I did not attend Pitt. My sons did. And I didn’t grow up in Pittsburgh or even Pennsylvania. I was a fan of Pitt – the University and the teams – long before my sons were born. They went because I suggested it to them.


Comment by Pitt Dad 08.24.13 @ 7:31 pm

Why is there a banner at the top of this string that says “click here to view your arrest record now”? Is that supposed to be ironic?

Comment by Pitt Dad 08.24.13 @ 7:35 pm

No, Pitt certainly not God. However, did not Anthony Gonzalez get a second chance? Now he is starting LB insteading trying to find another school to give him that second chance. There is nothing wrong with giving a kid a second change. Pitt need to get with the program. Is Pitt any better than the school that goes to?

Comment by Michael 08.24.13 @ 7:36 pm

EMEL a mature and enlightened remark about the scientific truth not legally defined statues of children being adults.
Only in America do we have capital punishment for 17 year old children prodomiately children of color. The reason has nothing to do with the offense but a historical violent society.
I am the father of a son, now 33 years old not of color but since the 1980’s I have been afraid for my son since I was not a wealthy man becoming entangled with a punitive justice system.
This is not purely an emotional staement it comes from a person with an M.A. in sociology who studied the behavior of the insitutional justice system in this country and 30 years as an academic in the Department of Justice System.

Comment by pittisit 08.24.13 @ 7:44 pm

Pitt can be more. But in overall sports we are irrelevant outside WPA. The football program continues to underachieve and monumentally disappoint on national TV. While basketball is close to breaking through to elite status but has come up short so far. Baseball and wrestling were good this year but despite that Pitt is ranked far too low for athletics… we are a tier 3 athletic school. We’re paying our AD nearly 600k a year for these results. Does anyone else see a problem with that? Why does Stevie get away with a lower performance standard than his boss? I guess his boss sees nothing wrong with being below standard given our AD’s recent contract extension. Just don’t let Stevie hear you say or see you write Pitt. He only knows the school as Pittsburgh. You might confuse him with a hole for corn in Nebraska.

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 8:06 pm

However, did not Anthony Gonzalez get a second chance? It was a different coach and he the nature of the indiscretion was not considered as serious as Chapmans. It is the nature of the crime that is the issue.

Comment by chethejet 08.24.13 @ 8:27 pm

Gonzo had a few adult beverages & was caught with a fake ID. If Chapman did that he would still be a Panther.

Comment by Nick 08.24.13 @ 8:46 pm

link to

What Virginia thinks of us.

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 8:51 pm

That link is spot on Tex. funny part is it is UVA. Not Clemson or Florida State writing it.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.24.13 @ 9:22 pm

Yes the Gonzo situation was with a differnt coach, but was it not the same ad and chancellor. Also, the charge was not adult beverage, it was marijuana….and the last time I checked that was a serious issue.

Comment by Michael 08.24.13 @ 9:57 pm

UVA fans wear ties to te games…… Nothing else to say! They also claim to be rivals of VT but I can’t seem to remember the last time they beat them. We are already more of a rival of VT than UVA ever was! I live down near there and they do pack in that nice stadium though which is more than I can say for Pitt! Great school and campus but they are the ultimate team of what if’s! Even more than us! Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Sweet Caroline 08.24.13 @ 10:19 pm

It’s funny that the blogger from UVA thinks that more money coming Pitt’s way will help improve the sorry state of its programs. Mind you we are a mid level ACC school in academics (not too shabby) but dead last in athletics, a true outlier. Money can help if spent wisely. But Pitt’s problem is with its leadership. Most AD’s are prolific fundraisers and have ties to the school. I would love to have Wanny as AD. Stevie being replaced by Dave. Talk about karma.

Comment by TX Panther 08.24.13 @ 10:31 pm

Here, here! I second that! Wanny bleeds blue and gold and would do everything to get us back to greatness! And the script would be back which would be….. Real nice!

Comment by Sweet Caroline 08.24.13 @ 10:55 pm

Hey, wbb, what were you saying about Tino the Magnificent never being arrested? Check this out:

link to


Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 08.24.13 @ 11:29 pm

58th is not acceptable. Is Pitt ranked higher than 1/2 the ACC? What about the big10? Look at our closest competition for students and athletes (penn state , ohio state Those universities stress academics and athletics and run balanced programs. Mock all you want but those are the facts.

Look at the universities ahead of us in the academic rankings and see who we can beat athletically in the two conferences (ACC and Big10). I respectfully disagree with you Pitt Dad. You can have winning academic and athletic programs. We just don’t and won’t under our current AD. I am not just focusing on football here. All sports. Tell me how we compare to our competitors. The answer is, we don’t compare well.

There would be no public outcry had Chapman rejoined the team. Pitt sports is irrelevant because leadership leads its supporters away, not towards athletics. When USC and Ohio State and Alabama play for the national championship and 20million TV’s are viewing, tell me how bad the marketing and pr will be for their respective universities. It pays off in endowments too. Applications rise and people know your university globally. That is what happens when you develop a brand. You don’t develop a sector of a brand, you develop the entire brand of the university. Pit fails in its strategic leadership in this regard.

We need a change……fast!

Comment by dhuffdaddy 08.24.13 @ 11:41 pm

PITT certainly does give second chances – see Ray Graham, Devin Street, L. Pitts, KK Smith, Gonzalez, Ronald Jones, Juantez Hollins, etc… as examples. PITT has administered discipline when appropriate and has not when they determined that a suspension wasn’t in order.

However, nowhere is it etched in stone that every player and every offense is the same and shall be treated the same.

(BTW – How did all the fans who feel that PITT is giving up winning by wanting choirboys forget that Paul Chryst allowed Ray Graham, L. Pitts and Devin Street to play against ND after being arrested a few days before the game?)

I have to say that I’m a bit surprised at the excuse driven nature of this discussion regarding Chapman’s crime and punishment. We have heard everything from scorned ex-girlfriends lying to punish an ex-boyfriend; corrupt cops inflating the charges (conveniently forgetting the fact that the Prosecution lowered the charges later) to feminist judges hammering the defendant because he’s a male.

Good God! Spare me the ‘blinkers on’ view of this issue. What is true and has been proven true is that criminal acts occurred and that Chapman not only admitted them and took public ownership of them to the tune of pleading guilty and referencing them in interviews, but that the State of Ohio took firm and appropriate action.

The bottom line is what I stated above – every single person close to this situation, including Chapman himself, his father and mother, his attorney, the judge, the Kent County reporters and our local beat writers have been 100% in step with the reality of the matter. That is that Tra’von committed serious crimes against another person, was arrested, admitted his crimes and then was sentenced for it.

Not one person except some PITT fans who either want to win at all costs or have a ax to grind against the PITT administration have disputed those facts.

One last note – how many times do you think that girl tried to leave that house and Chapman physically refused her in the two hours he held her captive? Two, Five, 10? Again, that action by Chapman in itself shows that this wasn’t a case of one spark of poor judgement that happened and then was over a second later – it was a series of conscious decisions on his part to commit that crime of unlawful restraint every time she wanted to leave and he wouldn’t let her.

That is the scary part here guys and why that sentence was so harsh. His actions showed a moral disregard for another person’s well being and that he knew that what he was doing was wrong yet kept doing it.

Comment by Reed 08.25.13 @ 4:59 am

+1 dhuffdaddy.

I wish more fans and alumni got it like you. We can be both excellent in overall academics and athletics if we had the right leadership and commitment.

What was Pitt’s academic rankings when I attended Pitt in the late 80’s. Probably between 60 and 80 so we have marginally improved some. Now athletics was far better than being consistently ranked 113 over the past 5 years. I guess with Pitt deemphasizing athletics that has led to our state of affairs.

Our brand isn’t just academics. We do need to balance brains with brawn. The balance is good for the college experience. It’s good for future donations. It’s good for prospective students. Other school administrations get it. All it takes is the right people in the right places at the right time. Sounds so simple that Pitt could botch it again when Nordy retires in 2014.

Wait until ACC fans begin mocking you and their scholar athletes win the awards and make snide comments about our facilities. Maybe being shamed and embarrassed will finally cause Pitt to wake up and act. Or maybe Pitt will be fine with being It.

Comment by TX Panther 08.25.13 @ 5:30 am

Yep, first thing I do each morning after I pour a cup of coffee is scour the paper for the daily Sears Cup Standings.


Comment by ECH 08.25.13 @ 5:54 am

Facilities outside the Pete are a disaster and don’t tell me look at our New Baseball complex.. The ACC will not be impressed. It’s bush league compared to what they play in. They took many shortcuts on that complex. The more I think about it I give Nordy a C grade Athletics has been very bad under his power and keeping Pederson on the payroll is a program killer.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 7:11 am

HTP on this decision. Lets bring on the season.

Comment by PITT it IS 08.25.13 @ 8:22 am

Stevie (aka ECH), it must be nice to wallow in mediocrity and not be held accountable for results. In fact, it must be even nicer to get rewarded with a fat contract extension from your best bud on his way out. Yes let’s bring on the season and another year closer to sending this corn husker back to the plains.

Comment by TX Panther 08.25.13 @ 9:08 am

The UVA students are the ones wearing ties…and they are school colors. The funny thing is they wear them with shorts.

The football experience at the stadium is OK, nothing great and they do not always pack the stadium. UVA FB fans are as fair-weathered as Pitt. Outside the stadium, the experience is typical college town….folks renting out their driveways, backyards to accommodate tailgaters. It’s got potential, but lacks an electricity found in other places. Don’t get me wrong – I like it – but before a “big game”, there is a bit more electricity on the North Shore. While our setup is not traditional, it will be a unique – and perhaps more intimidating experience than Charlottesville. If Pitt puts together a good team, it is not hard to imagine Panther fans giving Cavs fans trouble with establishing a home field advantage. The Hokies own Scott Stadium every other year.

BTW – Their fight song is silly and the band – only recently formed – is below avg in a school of above avg students.

The BB facility, the JPJ, is pretty nice but they don’t sell out and the students are no where near the Oakland Zoo. Look for Pitt fans to make themselves known there if Pitt can overcome ACC officiating.

Pitt has no chance whatsoever to get close to the baseball, soccer or lacrosse experience in Charlottesville. They have wonderful facilities, which BTW are the distance from the Litchfield Towers to Shadyside Hospital….similar with BB.

Regardless of how our team or theirs is doing, they will think they are better than you…it’s in the DNA. My wife, daughter and son-in-law are all UVa grads and youngest daughter is a Pitt freshman… a “house divided”. So, we need to take it to them.

Comment by Joe Lawrence 08.25.13 @ 9:23 am

At first, I thought some Pitt “fans” were skeptics but now believe they are synics. There is no cure for synical people — nothing ever pleases them. As a Pitt fan, I support Pitt athletics, win or lose.

I don’t care if Pitt’s facilities are not as nice as other universities, as long as Pitt students have a chance to compete in their respective sport and experience college life, that’s all that matters to me as a Pitt supporter.

Hail To Pitt!

Comment by MariettaMike 08.25.13 @ 9:48 am

Marietta – Honest question with a Yes or No answer.

Do you approve of Steve Pederson as Pitt’s AD? Thanks..

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 10:07 am

I don’t apologize for being critical of the athletic department. Your chances to compete and win significantly improves if your facilities are top notch and if your school actually cares about athletics. I won’t support an incompetent AD that alienates alumni. Pitt does just enough to tease you but they are not truly serious about competing. I feel bad for the student athletes. They are being cheated of a better college experience. But dont take my word. Ask a Pitt athlete off the record. Ask a traveling ACC fan what they think. Ask a student athlete from an ACC school for their impressions after making the trip up north and seeing our facilities, the quality of athletes and the coaching. I just demand more if I send dollars Pitt’s way. I trust the current Pitt administration less than I trust Congress.

Comment by TX Panther 08.25.13 @ 10:07 am

JFTR – I never said you can’t have both academics and athletics. I never said I didn’t want and expect Pitt to be ranked higher than 58th, just that 58th was great not merely good.

What I did say was that if the university has to establish a priority between academics and athletics then academics will always come first. As it should. Pitt is a university first. The teams exist for the benefit of the student athletes not the fans. The big business of college sports (link to has perverted that notion.

Comment by Pitt Dad 08.25.13 @ 10:34 am

forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I refuse to read 200+ comments to check. it appears that tyler boyd isn’t the only Clairton gem pitt got in the 2013 class. if the depth chart were released right now, terrish webb would likely be the first safety in for ray vinopal and titus howard is right there with Trenton coles for the spot of first corner off the bench.

I love howards upside. he has excellent size and length at 6’2″ and is a great athlete. pitts young corners are very tall. coles in 6’3″, howard is 6’2″, jahmahl pardner is 6’1″. im hoping webb continues to progress and takes over for vinopal. ive made my opinion in him clear, he shouldn’t see the field for a major d1 program other than special teams. webb is young and raw but he has the speed to make plays. vinopal doesn’t.

Comment by pk 08.25.13 @ 10:47 am

as a side note, jahmahl parnder is not yet 100% from the acl he tore last year but he should be at close to it a couple weeks into the season. they may try to manage with just coles until then and then rotate pardner in there as well whilst trying to red shirt howard. he is probably capableof producing this yearbut he needs to bulk up a bit and he is still raw

Comment by pk 08.25.13 @ 10:52 am

@upitt… NO. I’d rather Pitt have Dan Radacovich, Clemson’s AD who was Tech’s AD before going to Clemson as Pitt’s AD. Dan is an IUP grad and a mover and shaker. But we play with the hand we are dealt. I read a lot of vitriol about Steve, but the big Pitt donors must like Steve or they would pressure Nordenberg to make a change, don’t you think? What am I missing?

Comment by MariettaMike 08.25.13 @ 11:16 am

@TexPanther: that article was an eye-opener. Thanks for the link. Favorite quote from it:

“Pitt will become the only ACC team to finish outside the top 100 in Director’s Cup standings at any time in the last five years; worse yet, the only time in the past five years they finished inside the top 100 was in 2008-2009, when they were 93rd. That’s worse than all but one of Wake Forest’s showings.”

Comment by 2$Chuck 08.25.13 @ 11:42 am

@Tx Panther Thanks for calling me Stevie. You shouldn’t apologize for being critical of the athletic department, you should apologize for being a one trick clown. I said that Steve Pederson should have never been rehired in 2007. I said Steve Pederson should have been fired the second after Pitt fired Dave Wannstadt because of the way that fiasco was handled, let alone the clusterf*** Haywood/Graham mess that followed. His inability to discover and vet coaching talent is reason alone to have been terminated. But the realities are that all of his actions as AD haven’t been wrong or disastrous. In fact, much of what he has accomplished, in light of Pitt’s history over the last 60 years, has been commendable.

I do find it hysterical how myopic know-it-all critics like you rail against all things Pederson and Nordenberg. You geniuses have zero context to your criticisms. You blame the administration for tearing down a dilapidated and woefully obsolete Pitt Stadium, and cry for facilities on campus. At the same time you belittle the investment in the Pete and the adjoining Petersen Sports Complex. Upittbaseball of all people should be ashamed of ignoring the investment in the baseball facility compared to the rock patch terraced into the cliff that was once used. Are you even capable of rationally examining where the athletic department as a whole was in mid 1990’s? Do you recognize how far it has come? Yes, there is much farther to go, both from a facility commitment and without question from a competitive perspective. But in contrast to what was the Pitt reality not too long ago, Pitt athletics is moving in the right direction, even if admittedly it is taking longer than any Pitt fan would like.

No go worry about what some ACC undergrad thinks of Pitt on a list somewhere and cower in shame. Or go throw darts at a Steve Pederson picture if it makes you feel better. Or just keep doing what you are doing, which I’m sure has benefitted Pitt and Pitt’s athletics far more than the actions of Pederson and Nordenberg.

Comment by ECH 08.25.13 @ 11:42 am

Marietta – Not sure bud. There was a big stink a few years back but it must have settled. I love the notion of Radacovich!!! I love the Serbs as I’m one as well. I do work at Clemson and they have a nice campus and awesome facilities. I really like the job the AD at L’Ville has down. Every sport is competitive and they have great facilities and support. Especially in a state that is 2nd to KY.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 11:43 am

Marietta – You in GA not OH right? GA has a shot to win the SEC but will have to beat Bama again… Anyway check this out..

link to

It’s from 2010!!

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 11:44 am

@Joe Lawrence: Being also a GA Techoid, I must agree that UVA students and alumni think they are better than better. I guess when your school founder is Thomas Jefferson you get to be like that. UVA is a great university but they don’t have anything over Pitt. We Pitt alumni have nothing to be ashamed of. Pitt is 225 years old and will be around 225 years from now.

Chancellor Nordenberg took Pitt over the 2 billion dollar mark in funding raising which is no small feat. I don’t understand why people on this blog will be happy when Nordenberg retires.

Comment by MariettaMike 08.25.13 @ 11:46 am

@Reed at 4:59 am! Excellent summary and analysis of Chapman at an ungodly hour. The sad part though is that it took Pitt 3 weeks to do the right thing.

Comment by PittStadiumShuffle 08.25.13 @ 11:48 am

@upitt… As in GA Tech’s fight song: …To Hell With Georgia…

Comment by MariettaMike 08.25.13 @ 11:50 am

ECH – Yes it’s better than trees field where we were in essence our own groundskeepers as well. Many of the Big East teams refused to take the field until they were told they would have to forfeit. So in that regards the new complex is way better and suitable for a Big East school. In no way shape or form is it an example of the ACC. That’s my point why do we always take shortcuts. Pederson is a joke and Nordy is his boss. The athletic department is a joke under Steve. I can’t wait to see the likes of Mike Martin and Mike Fox reaction when they see the new baseball field. It’s a turf and concrete mess that should house a D2 school not one in the ACC. Just my opinion. By the way Trees was a dump and played there in the late 1990’s I agree with your opinion there 100%

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 11:57 am

@ Upittbaseball Yes, Trees Field was shameful. Just as Pitt Stadium in 1995 was shameful and the soccer teams playing in Indiana Township was shameful, and every team having a different style of uniform was shameful, and Fitzgerald Fieldhouse rarely having good hot water in the locker rooms was shameful, and getting boat-raced every Saturday afternoon was shameful, and on down the line. For the record, I went to school in the SEC. Trust me, I know that style of athletic commitment. Is Pitt there? Hell no. Will it ever be? Doubtful. Is it in a perfect place now? Of course not. Is it getting better. I think objective people will say absolutely.

Comment by ECH 08.25.13 @ 12:04 pm

Y’all, Good facilities do not make the team, otherwise Pitt would never have won the National Football Championship in 1976.

How many alumni remember playing handball in Old Pitt stadium? Ouch! But we had fun even if we were squeamish about climbing down/up ladders.

Hail to Pitt!

Comment by MariettaMike 08.25.13 @ 12:14 pm

Where in the SEC? I’ve been to most of the schools for work and man on a Wed, Thurs, Fri, Sat before a big game there is nothing like it. Wife went to LSU.
You are so true. I was there in 95.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 12:15 pm

Marietta – No they don’t but they should as hell make a difference in recruiting top talent.

Where would you rather play ball if you were a Top Recruit?

link to

link to

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 12:32 pm

Pitt Stadium was once a modern marvel –>

link to

Hail to Pitt!

Comment by MariettaMike 08.25.13 @ 12:38 pm

UK. Where an off campus arena never seemed to stop the Cats from winning basketball championships. Crazy.

Comment by ECH 08.25.13 @ 12:53 pm

ECH – If Jaime Dixon was in the same league or even close to Calipari and Petino that would help. UK will be very solid in football in the next 2-3 years. They are a program that has excitement and a top class for the ages.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 1:00 pm

Since Chapman is gone and he was 4 stars how much further does that take our 2013 recruiting class? Was 37th I thought.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 1:03 pm

Wow! I love this group.

Only with PITT fans could a promising 4* recruit at a desperately needed position get dismissed from the team and somehow the conversation circles around to PITT stadium. :)

Comment by Reed 08.25.13 @ 3:43 pm

Reed – LOL. Im on a plane to Fort Lauderdale to check on our new QB. By the way can someone make sure there are no Sunseri’s left that play QB. Wish we would of got the brother at Bama who plays safety.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 4:35 pm

@ MariettaMike

Great link, really enjoyed reading that !

In 1926 having that stadium built complete with basketball pavilion was a modern marvel with football seating for 70,000.

The building of Pitt Stadium in 1926 layed the groundwork for the greatest ever period of Pitt football. 1926-1938, as the article notes 1926 was the 2nd season the the Jock Sutherland era.
In that period Pitt appeared in 4 Rose Bowl games.

And that great era and the 4 Rose Bowl appearances might not have ever happened unless PITT Stadium was built, as Sutherland was able to use the lure partly of Pitt Stadium as a recruiting tool.

You can learn a lot from history and the lesson here is plain to see !!!

Build a new frickin on campus stadium !

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 4:52 pm

@ upitt

Yea I’ve checked, no more, you know who’s, until you know who…….has kids.

God help the Pitt students of say 2035-2040.

They will be an unsuspecting lot.

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 5:05 pm

Hey Emel- Jock was also paying his players back then. But we won’t mention that. 😉

Comment by ECH 08.25.13 @ 5:05 pm

Paid them in cans of soup and mayonaise sandwiches

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 5:22 pm

As long as it was Hellmans and not that Miracle Whip crap!!

Comment by ECH 08.25.13 @ 5:25 pm


Emel. Bucs offense is anemic last few games.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 5:31 pm

Another good example of what a nice facility can do for a program.

Well one only needs to look at the PITT basketball program since The Pete was built.
That couldn’t have been accomplished playing in old Fitzgerald Field House. Yes we had spurts of greatness(1974, 1987-1990) at the Field House, but never a long sustained period of being relevant nationally every year since 2001.

Another example right in front of our eyes;
Trees Hall when built was one of the better swimming venues in the Northeast and PITT had very good swimming teams back in the mid to late 70’s and 80’s. As the facility became dated and other colleges built newer nicer swimming complexes, their program’s passed PITT.

What all this says is: it takes monetary investment in the form of building new facilities to keep a program relevant which will then allow you to attract better coaches.

PITT made a huge monetary expenditure to make the basketball program relevant on a yearly basis.
And continue to ‘ante up’ every time they extend JD’s contract.

If we want to become relevant in football on a yearly basis, a huge monetary expenditure will more than likely be needed again.

Just like the $2 Million they spent in 1926 to help make PITT, the best team in college football in the Eastern half of the country for over a decade. (of course we all know $2 Million in 1926 might equal $500 Million or more now)

Oh and btw it is a disgrace that tiny Wake Forest with an undergrad enrollment of 4,000 students places higher than PITT in overall sports with an enrollment of 19,000 students.

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 5:33 pm


All the better bowl teams back then gave players ‘stipends’ or spending money when on Bowl trips.
And of course they still do it today !

Pitt & Sutherland were not different than anyone else. Although from my understanding, the few bucks given to the players came out of Jock’s pockets. Because PITT was too cheap !

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 5:38 pm

Emel. Show Pederson some respect man, he got us in the ACC!

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 5:39 pm

And he built the new basketball arena. Didnt you know its named after him. Oh and the baseball / softball / soccer complex. Oh and he owns Erie Insurance.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 5:41 pm


Yea you figured we had a good chance to sweep this series after FRiday nite with Liriano & Burnett next up.

Only saving grace today, both the Cards & Redlegs lost as well.

Made ex-Buc Vogelsong (a guy with close to a 6.00 ERA) look like Cy Young today. 2 of our 3 hits were by guys who were in AAA last week. Oy Vey !

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 5:52 pm

Yep Cornhole charmed the ACC and then charmed John and Gertrude Peterson ! lol

Speaking of charmed lives……

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 5:54 pm

They are his white knight. If not he would have to have been fired.

The solution to football field is build it on top of that shit hole golf course on the hill. Accessible by major highway and imagine the new growth that would move around it. Put some dorms, etc. and have an awesome area to tailgate. Call up Gertrude and say to all alumni we need 700M. Easily they would get that and more. Sell bricks pavers, etc. sell the name and sell the naming rights to a company as well. No chutzpah whatsoever.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 6:01 pm

@ Reed — What more can be said about Chapman that already has been said? Tra’von’s history. Forget about him.

There is some correlation to new stadiums and improved performance on the field. Look at the Pirates and Steelers with Three Rivers. I’m a convert. All along I believed it was about good coaching and team effort. All Pitt needs is a new on campus football stadium to become relevant again. Lets do it.

Atlanta has a 21 year old domed stadium and are looking to tear it down to build a billion dollar stadium and the Falcons are building a championship caliber team, again.

The problem with a city school like Pitt, where do you build a stadium with limited space for building and parking?

Pitt got the Quad when Forbes Field was raized.

This is good fodder until the Flordia State game then a new Pitt stadium will be a pipe dream until next year.

Comment by MariettaMike 08.25.13 @ 6:14 pm

Marietta. The Falcons is a go. We looked at it but no money in stadium work. As far as room that shithole golf course is perfect!

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.25.13 @ 6:38 pm

Just read there was a proposal to put a dome over Pitt stadium and increase seating to 80,000. The move was touted as a way to provide a new basketball arena, like the Carrier Dome, and host NCAA regionals. The price tag was around $96 million which, no doubt, was way too low. Pitt was selling a much less expensive basketball arena to the state looking for help. With price overruns the Pete ended up costing more than doming the stadium on the first quote. Expansion and putting a dome over the stadium seems far fetched considering it was built over old mine shafts.

Comment by TonyinHouston 08.25.13 @ 6:57 pm

Here’s a positive: Pitt enters the ACC as one of a handful of teams to ever have won a national championship, joining FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and Syracuse. There have been times when Pitt made the right moves. God willing we will live long enough to see another era of athletic excellence which we hope will immediately follow the long-awaited end to the Nordenberg/Pederson one step forward, two steps backward saga.

Comment by TonyinHouston 08.25.13 @ 7:05 pm

Yea forgot about how 3 Rivers ushered in a golden era of Steeler football and the Pirates were the most relevant they ever were in the 1970’s since the deadball era.

And yours truly was at the very first baseball game ever played at 3 Rivers in July of 1970 against the Redlegs. Pirates lost that game but did reach the NL playoffs losing to the Redlegs again but won the WS the following year and in ’79.

Don’t know if that run in the ’70’s would have happened at old Forbes Field. Kind of doubt it as the ’71 World Series had the first EVER World Series night game and the 3 Rivers venue gave the world a view of Pgh’s magnificent 3 rivers and started Pgh’s renaissance.

Of course concurring with the first massive wave of ‘outsourcing’ of Pgh’ers to other parts of the US, when 90% of the Steel industry/and other industries related, were moved oversees.

All of those events were tied into Pgh’s re-emergence into a non-steel city during a decade the Steelers rose to unprecedented prominence.

Ironic eh !

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 7:54 pm

very first baseball game at Three Rivers Stadium was played by construction workers that worked on the stadium

brick layers vs carpenters

Comment by anony 08.25.13 @ 8:19 pm

It is hard to figure what Pitt should do next to become relevent in FB. Coaching, funds to recruit, better game situation for students, fund raising for facilities, etc. I guess winning some games is a start. Pitt will get more money in the ACC and that money must be spent very carefully to improve the above points in addition to sustaining BB. There are some great companies in the Pittsburgh area and their participation is critical.

Comment by Frank MD 08.25.13 @ 9:40 pm

somehow I knew JoeD would know when the first baseball game was played at 3 Rivers.

However I obviously meant the first professional baseball game.

Still have the beautiful souvenir Game Day Ticket,

No mention of brick layers vs carpenters, so sorry Joe, you’re wrong again ! haha

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 9:48 pm

And those guys should have been working on the stadium, not playing ball.

No wonder the stadium opening was delayed until July ! lol

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 9:49 pm

Yeah, but Local 86 had a journeyman that could get from home to first in under 3.5 seconds. Hand timed, of course.

Comment by ECH 08.25.13 @ 9:55 pm

Mel Famey was pitching for the brick layers. Before the game, the carpenters got him drunk before the game and he walked seven straight guys in the bottom of the 9th and the carpenters won. When asked after the game what happened out there, the carpenters said “it was the beer that made mel famey walkus.

New on-campus stadium needed.
New AD needed.
For what it is worth, I do like Paul Chryst and feel he will do great things at his next post. Pederson is handcuffing him and he is playing it like a pro. Well done PC, well done!

Comment by dhuffdaddy 08.25.13 @ 9:55 pm

We had Loge Box seats for that game. Loge Box were on the 2nd level as were our Steeler tickets.

No date on the ticket, just ‘Opening Day’ since the workers were playing ball instead of working

Box 220 ….Ticket Cost was $4.15 which included .36 cent City tax and .15 Stadium charge.

Ticket was signed by Pirate President Dan Galbreath.

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 9:58 pm

lmao ECH……no doubt…joe knows

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 9:59 pm

That perked my interest and found this interesting story on Dan Galbreath, who I knew owned Thoroughbred horses but knew little else.


link to

Comment by EMel 08.25.13 @ 10:12 pm

MariettaMike – true words. As with anything else other than if DW should have been fired, SP, new stadium, etc this will fade with time and as you state the page is being turned.

I guess we’ll have something concrete to talk about in a week and a day.

Comment by Reed 08.26.13 @ 4:08 am

Getting back on Florida State fodder, redshirt freshman Jameis Winston will be the starting quarterback against Pitt one week from today. I see Pitt’s defense giving Jameis a tough baptism. Of course Pitt will be starting a new QB as well. Opening day for Pitt football should be very interesting. Lets go Pitt!

Comment by MariettaMike 08.26.13 @ 5:21 am

I agree with the decision but it will hurt after this year. I really worry about how Pitt will compete over the next 2-3 years. I just dont see it but I am hoping they will! H2P!!!

Comment by Shawn 08.26.13 @ 8:38 am

Tony In Houston, I am 61 and concede I have witnessed the only National Champion football team at Pitt these eyes will get to see. I pray for our hoops team but it isn’t working out too well either.

Comment by spiritofsection 22 08.26.13 @ 10:50 am

Upittbaseball, Dixon has more character than Calipari and Petino put together. He has less to work with and competes well with both, yet runs a clean program. They have had more year end success but are not without their flaws and for that matter odors.

Comment by spiritofsection 22 08.26.13 @ 10:58 am

Spirit – They have rings Jamie has March failures. I’d take the rings.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.26.13 @ 1:33 pm

Upittbaseball, Paterno and Sandusky had rings too. That isn’t all that matters and Calipari has left a stink behind everywhere he has been. Petino struggles to beat Dixon with better talent. Your assessment though true overates both of them and demeans Dixon. Talk to Tennessee or UMass fans and ask them who the better coach is. Don’t overlook the mess these two have left behind due to a lack of integrity. Dixon might not be the best coach come March but he has been more successful here than anyone and is straight up. Rings are great but character, morals and honesty aren’t the worst traits. Neither of your guys qualify for a ring in those departments. If Dixon ever gets one he won’t have to leave the school the next year to avoid sanctions or abort any babies to keep his wife from finding out. Titles are great, so is winning games with some semblance of honor. We will never agree here so let’s just agree to disagree. I don’t have much respect for either of your guys but they do win a lot at basketball. I prefer Dixon.

Comment by spiritofsection 22 08.26.13 @ 4:07 pm

My guys??? I don’t give two shits about them. My point is they win. When most people win people always say yeah but they are cheaters and lack a moral compass. In this situation you are correct. Both guys are shitheads. Dixon is a great guy and leader and coach. My problem is he underachieves in March. I like Character especially at a leadership level. I’m saying that you can do both!!!! You can be a hell of a leader, not cheat and still win. Why doesn’t do it???? AS far as my comment about the rings it is to say you can have both. Dixon is paid more than enough money to have both character and produce rings. We don’t disagree. I agree 100%. I just want us to win and not blame those who do as cheaters. Have a good night bud. I think we are the only 2 still reading this post. LOL

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.26.13 @ 4:47 pm

upittbaseball, You are right about us being last and taklkin’ hoops on the football side to boot.

Comment by spiritofsection 22 08.26.13 @ 5:15 pm

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