I do have to keep reminding myself that turnover following a new coach — and radical change in demeanor — is nothing new. Maryland endured mass defections in Randy Edsall’s first year-and-a-half. As did Syracuse when they went from Gerg Robinson to Doug Marrone. Just to name a couple examples off the top of my head. In neither case was it where the on-the-field style was radically changed. It was the shift in the way the head coach handled the players.
It isn’t as simple as just getting rid of the guys that don’t want to be there. Or “changing the culture.” It usually just comes down to the simple truth, not all players like and respond to the same style of coaching. Just as not all coaches are comfortable with the personalities of all players. And when you radically flip styles there is going to be significant attrition.
It doesn’t (necessarily) mean the players are soft, quitters, whiners or can’t take it. Nor does it (necessarily) mean that the coaches can’t communicate, handle or manage different players. It’s just easier for the narrative and our own biases to frame it that way.
That said, enough already. I’m tired of this.
I don’t know what changed for Todd Thomas to make him decide that he was done with Pitt football. The beat reporters seem at a loss. There was the temporary demotion to second team on the first day, but from Coach Paul Chryst down to Todd Thomas everyone seemed to get that it wasn’t a permanent thing. It was a temporary motivator and way to get Thomas’ and other players’ attention. It seemed to work.
Even Thomas’ old high school coach seems at a loss.
Thomas’ high school coach at Beaver Falls, Ryan Matsook, said the news surprised him. He said he received six voice mail messages from Division II coaches wondering about Thomas’ availability.
Matsook said he didn’t detect any dissatisfaction from Thomas when he joined his players this spring in the weight room.
“I speak quite frequently with Chris Haering (Thomas’ position coach at Pitt), and he never had anything negative to say,” Matsook said. “Todd is competitive. Every kid will get complacent, but the thing that always motivated Todd was if you put anyone in front of him or sat him for a quarter, he always responded positively.
“The more you dangle that carrot, the better Todd gets. “I am just surprised. It seems like a knee-jerk reaction.”
So, there’s always a chance that this could abruptly blow-over in a few days. Especially when Thomas himself sends the mixed messages on twitter.
Thomas’ only response was a tweet late Wednesday afternoon: “I didn’t quit so stop saying that!!” He also tweeted, “Nobody took my spot for the record. But I did what’s best for me! I still love pitt!”
As recently as Sunday, Thomas appeared excited about the upcoming season with this tweet: “Back to the grind tomorrow. See y’all September 1 #camp #h2p last tweet!”
I’m probably being foolish, but I still think there’s a 50-50 chance Thomas returns and makes amends.
The Thomas news overshadowed everything else from the second day of camp.
It does create one question about depth at the spot. Nicholas Grigsby would seem to be the guy that will get the chance to take the weakside linebacker spot since defensive coordinator Matt House likes the idea of moving Ejuan Price to a defensive end spot to help bring more pressure. Something Price is embracing.
“I wish I could tell you,” he said with a laugh and a smile when asked about his role for this year. “They’re using me right now as a pass rusher, a pass specialist. They’re trying to give me a fair chance to work in at the regular d-end spot, so right now, I’m fighting for both. Right now, I’m basically a pass rusher.”
After redshirting last season, Price is set to make an impact on Pitt’s 2013 defense. Playing as a full-time defensive end, he hopes to make a living in the trenches, chasing down quarterbacks and ball carriers.
“I feel like I’m better at that (playing defensive end) than playing linebacker,” Price said. “I’m better just playing up on the line, reacting, basically less thinking, so I like that better.”
Price, who found out about moving to full-time defensive end at the end of summer, said the transition has been an easy one. The only difference is being deployed in the trenches every play rather than situationally, but it’s an adjustment he has made.
It’s actually a return to familiarity for the Woodland Hills product. In high school, Price played a standup defensive end, passing rushing specialist for the Wolverines.
While Price was injured last year, as a freshman he played linebacker exclusively. Admittedly it was a bit of a different defensive scheme, but with Thomas gone there has to be some temptation to move Price back there because of his athleticism.
Day 2 may have gone a long way to resolving my #8 question about the team for the upcoming season: Who will be kicking field goals?
Pitt freshman kicker Chris Blewitt created the most excitement of the first two days of training camp when he hit field goals of 29, 35, 41 and 47 yards at the end of practice Tuesday. Coach Paul Chryst put a value on the last one, threatening to have players do down-ups if Blewitt missed. The team cheered when Blewitt split the uprights. Chryst liked the enthusiasm, but it didn’t surprise him. “I put a little wager on it,” Chryst said. “There was a reason for them to rally.”
Blewitt is the only scholarship kicker on the squad, so there is some expectation that he would be the guy. But you just don’t know. Nailing those field goals with the entire team watching and knowing what was at stake is definitely an encouraging sign.
Seems odd, but I’m not reading anything about the QBs. Just that Savage is running first team and Voytik, second.
How about the depth chart at wide receiver?
I think the wide receiver race could be more interesting that maybe anticipated. It wouldn’t surprise me to see one of the freshmen like Zach Challingsworth, Jester Weah or Reggie Green challenge for playing time this year. They all have certain strengths (Challingsworth looks like a good route runner, Weah is very athletic) that could get them on the field this year if no one else steps up at that position.
“We’ve got to find top five, top six,” Chryst said. “You guys know the pool. There’s room for anyone. I think yeah, right now, certainly open to everyone.”
Pads go on today, so things should start getting a little more interesting.
If there was a bunch of defection from Jan 2012 to August 2012, that is understandable with a new coach.
Per PG, this would be 20 players since July 2012.
Trib is saying 23 players left since September 2012.
PSU, with a new coach and sanctions with players able to transfer without sitting out has had fewer defections than Pitt over the last 12 months.
5 players who left are from Chryst’s 2012 recruiting class: Davis twins, T.Jackson, Rippy, Shell.
At this point, you can no longer say lazy players, etc. This is a coaching issue.
I could get into other facts about other stuff too such as in regards to recruiting. Pitt’s recruiting class for next is currently ranked 42 on Rivals, right behind Temple. And one of the top RB recruits for next year Shai McKenzie who was high on Pitt but now looks to be going to Va Tech next year. But yeah Chryst is good at recruiting.
take a look at Wisconsin’s recruiting rankings over the past few years and then look at their results. If you think Pitt is ever going to win a recruiting beauty contest you are are in for a rough 10-15 years.
Because thaas how long HC PC is going to be around (if we are lucky). Because you dont win any awards for bringing in recruits. JJ Watt was a 2-star.
Every team has a model. Sometimes its for speed. Or building from the inside out. Pitt’s model is blue collar intelligent hard working kids that WANT TO BE THERE. They don’t go after highlight reel head cases who eat up all the stars. You are going to get to watch players that are good kids that you will want to root for. The future is exciting.
+++1
You think Frank Beamer is gonna pat Shai on his phanny and tell him how great he is?
PC has
1) a 6-7 record
2) 0-1 bowl record
3) 0 NFL draftees
4) 26 player losses (excluding graduation)
The jury is still out on PC as it shouldmbe but by all accounts he is digging a deep hole… Eventually he has to get out of this hole. This year he must show some sustainable successes.
Lord help us all if his team get humiliated on national tv against FSU. That hole will have gotten significantly deeper and he might be the one being sized up for it.
It’s more than just a model. It is an environment and a culture. “You’re going to work hard, and compete every time you step on the field (and go to class, go to study hall, lift weights, and be a normal, upstanding, decent human beings while you’re at it)…..or you’re not going to play.”
Devon Street gets it… “If you’re not on board you gotta go”… It’s hard to believe how many of these kids weren’t on board… 20+ kids leaving the team? I just don’t know what they all expected? To just coast through the motions, and do whatever you want, and then show up Monday night primetime and walk all over Fla. State? That’s just not how it works.
I think HCPC gets it too. He’s never going to get the same talent that Fla State, and Miami, and VTech, and Clemson gets…. Same story at Wisky. But if he gets the right kids who are going to work and compete, maybe that will be enough enough.
What Chryst said about Thomas was no different than any coach who has used the media to help light a fire under an important player when that player isn’t performing consistently to expectations. It was hardly malicious. It was in no way an attempt to single Thomas out for the purposes of embarrasing him in front of his teammates. It was largely complimentary of Thomas and a plain statement of the need the team had for him to perform to his standards. Dare I say that had this happened in the second year of Wannstedt’s tenure, the comments would’ve been lauded by much of the Pitt fanbase.
To that end, in the aftermath of yesterday’s news, I saw two crystal-clear examples emerge that shed some light on what has been the “culture” of Pitt football the last three or four seasons.
On one hand, you have the comments made by Devin Street – both on Twitter and to the media – talking about Thomas’s willingness to buy in, work hard and be a part of what the team was about.
On the other hand, you have Cam Saddler, who took to Twitter to call out Chryst for what he called “high school tactics”, accusing him of being on a power trip. He essentially argued in other comments that Thomas should’ve been running with the starters this year by default because of past performance, yet wouldn’t entertain the possibility that Thomas’s effort to open this camp may have been substandard and was the reason why he was relegated to the second team. He also seems to insinuate that different standards do need to exist for the team’s best players, drawing a vague reference to Shell as well. And for whatever it’s worth, some fellow Pitt fans pointed out this morning that Saddler changed his Twitter profile to read “Former Member of the Dave Wannstedt Pitt Panthers”.
I was a huge fan of Wannstedt, but it became apparent that there were major issues with the program. The off-field issues that existed were well-documented. On the field, I get the sense that things weren’t much better during his final season, given the way the team seemed to come out flat in big games (Miami, ND, UConn with BE title still in play), culminating in what sure as hell looked like the entire team quitting on him in the loss to WVU at home in 2010. The phrase “inmates running the asylum” was frequently tossed around and plenty of evidence emerged to support it.
I recall it being revealed at the end of last season that sometime prior to the start of the 2012 season, Chryst and his coaches went to a number of the veteran players – many of whom were “Wanny guys” – and asked them to be counted on to take leadership roles within the locker room. I recall it being said that as the season wore on, a significant number of them ended up doing the exact opposite, becoming little more than disruptive malcontents whose matriculation from the program would be a welcome step to move things forward.
(Tangent: To be fair, the attrition isn’t all on Wannstedt’s former players, either. A large chunk of the roster was brought in by Graham under the pretense of playing in a spread-option system. From an on-field standpoint alone, it was logical to assume that many of these guys would leave because they weren’t necessarily suited to play in Chryst’s system.)
Over the last several months, Street has emerged as one of the voices of the culture of the program Chryst is trying to build. There’s some irony there because for some time prior, Street was perceived as an underachiever whose play was sometimes characterized as lazy. There was speculation that he didn’t really come around until he sniffed around his NFL draft prospects and didn’t like what he heard, but whatever the motivations are, Street changed. To move this program forward, they need everyone on the same page and everyone buying in to the same degree.
I’ve argued this before here…it seems like when Walt and Wanny took over, there was significantly more patience within the fanbase through the first few years of their respective tenures. There seemed to be a common understanding that building a program and getting results takes time, and that there would be attrition and growing pains, and that it was a process that didn’t happen overnight.
So what’s changed? Why does it feel like Chryst isn’t being alloted the same, especially when it could be argued that he inherited a signifcantly more chaotic situation? I’m not saying people can’t be criticial or that there aren’t things to criticize; there certainly are things worth criticizing. It just seems as though there’s a huge gap in where expectations were with Wanny & Walt heading into their respective Year Two’s and where things are with Chryst.
Pitt has a coaching problem right now. If you want to put your head in the sand and ignore facts so be it.
1. Chryst can’t recruit elite players, not even in his backyard of wpial.
2. Chryst can’t retain good/elite players.
3. Chryst was 6-7 last year and probably 5 wins this year.
Houston, we have a problem and I’m not buying it’s a player issue anymore. Perhaps some players were an issue. We are talking 20 players leaving the program in 12 months.
that will tell us if things are looking up or down.
but i will say this before i stop talking abought thomas if chryst had a do over i know he would not make thomas second string on the first day.
he went home and kicked him self in the ass.
he knows he blew it.
@Stoosh – I don’t recall folks being patient with Walt. Wanny got a free ride for way too long since he was a Pitt boy. See where that got us. Chryst is under the microscope since he is a first time head coach. Any lack of player control, real or perceived, will be magnified.
In fact, if we remember, one thing that irritated us, the fan base when Wanny was coach is that he would automatically give the starting spots to his upperclassman and therefore encouraged this entitlement attitude that some of the older guys are displaying. There’s a new boss in town and you have to work for your spot. My son was a D-1 college wrestler – he had to earn his spot to start week in and week out with weekly challenges from the other guys in his weight class. Wrestlers get it (the concept) and soon Pitt football players will also. Let’s Go Pitt!!!
I mean 40+ pts.
Welcome to the ACC. Then I will be curious as to what the koolaid drinkers say then. But as frank says, 20 some days and we will know.
Hey Dan83 … ask your alter ego why these guys from Beaver County apparently don’t like to practice.
What is so good about elite recruits? Alabama gets them and they win. USC gets them and they suck. I would much rather have highr recruited players than lower recruited ones but this is an art, not a science.
How you can hate on PC after one year is impressive. He made some truly terrible decisions last year, but it was also his first year coaching. He gets it. He is getting better. What was Saban’s record his first year? Bellicheck? The last thing Pitt has is a coaching problem. in fact for the first time since probably Johnny Majors part 1, they don’t have a coaching problem. Urban Meyer is going to poach all the good WPIAL players with personality issues. I would stop window shopping on the big names. Its just not PCs style.
Do I think PCs method is going to work against the speed of the ACC? Its definitely an unkown. Do we have a perceived talent gap? absolutely. But if you have ever played organized sport you know there is something to be said about a group of players that become a team and not just a bunch of idiots putting their time in until they can get drafted.
The incoming 27 freshmen this year are the only ones that he really targeted. They are the ones with the right character and work ethic that he’s looking for.
That’s exactly why we are seeing the turnover. I would actually expect another enormous class this year, followed with some more turnover from the last of the Graham recruits that tried to stick it out. Only about 34% of the roster is actually kids that he picked out, so you can probably expect more turnover.
Football, and sports in general, should be an ancillary activity supplementing the REAL purpose of a University, which is to educate and develop young persons to be leaders and productive members of society. Catering to miscreants with entitlement issues is NOT the purpose of a University.
It sickens me to see how sports has become ALL IMPORTANT to some people, trumping all else.
It saddens me to read how some feel that we need to WIN, WIN, WIN….at any and all costs. Maybe these folks should just focus on professional sports teams where winning IS the primary focus. Pro/Major league teams aren’t in the business of developing young men (and women), they are in the business to win and make money. There is no pretense that they are there ‘to make sure young men/women are ready to enter society’.
Pitt is a University that happens to field a football team. The University, as a whole, is what matters.
I already hate myself for getting into what’s probably going to be a circular argument with you, given that you’ve been beating the same tired, cynical drum for months, but here goes nothing…
1. “Chryst can’t recruit quality kids.” Come on. Tyler Boyd. Dorian Johnson. Adam Bisnowaty. JP Holtz. Scott Orndoff. All from Pitt’s own backyard. Throw in Travon Chapman and the retainment of Chad Voytik as well. Also kept Shell as a Graham holdover and brought in Rippy on his own. Seven national-caliber players all on the current roster, as well as two more who unfortunately no longer bought in to being part of the program.
2. “Chryst can’t retain good/elite players.” See Voytik. See Bisnowaty. See Lafayette Pitts, who was a Graham commit that stuck around. See Ejuan Price, who Graham brought in from tOSU and Chryst managed to retain. (Incidentally, Pitts and Price were the two highest-rated players by Scout in Graham’s 2011 class). See JP Holtz, who he pulled from a Penn State decommit. See Dorian Johnson, who he pulled from a Penn State decommit.
3. “Chryst was 6-7 last year and probably 5 wins this year.”
Your latter point first is completely speculative. May be true, but at this point completely speculative. The comment on last season’s record merits some discussion. A 6-7 record was not without its share of disappointments. The YSU opener was indefensible. The Cincy loss was ugly, but the short week to prepare didn’t help and it was still very early on in the season. The Syracuse and UConn losses were diappointing, but also emblematic of the limitations the team had on offense.
By contrast, they manhandled Virginia Tech and Rutgers. They put a legitimate scare into Louisville and were a blown pass interference call and missed field goal away from beating ND at ND.
I think what you saw is what this truly was – a first-year head coach trying to build a program and implement a game plan with a roster made up of players brought in by two separate coaches running completely different systems.
We could loose to fsu by 50 and I would never be as embarrassed as I was with Wannstadt’s lame losses. His game day coaching was a disaster. We permitted him to use the program to demonstrate that much like his NFL tours he ultimately is a looser! Hail to Pitt! UPone
When an adult want to be understood, he/she needs only to make a cogent and rational statement once.
When a child thinks he/she is not being understood or not listened to, he/she keeps making/yelling the same statement over and over again: I don’t want to go; I don’t want to go; I don’t want to go . . . .
In your case, with regard to KKMS and Chapman: he should be kicked off the team, he should be kicked off the team, he should be kicked off the team, and on and on and on. With Paul Chryst, Pitt has a coaching problem, he can’t coach, he can’t recruit, we have a coaching problem, he can’t recruit, ad infinitum.
You, son, are a child.
It’s proven, stars matter based upon statistics. No opinion or subjectivity.
See link.
But keeps Chapman the domestic abuser who spent time in jail.
Stoosh, Johnson and Holtz committed to PSU if you recall. If not for the sanctions, they would be at PSU. Biz was Graham carryover.
How many wpial elite is he getting this year?
1 so far.
He needs to land 5 4star’s every class. 1 or 2 and Pitt won’t be competitive in ACC.
Keep drinking the koolaid. Chryst will be gone after 2014 season.
JoeD was the only commenter. Basically talking to himself, he had chased everyone else away I guess, with his sophmoric comments and childish reasoning, let alone saying the same thing over and over and over and over!!!!!!!
Allthough, he actually answered himself once, so I guess he responds to himself and carries on a conversation with himself.
He may be caught in a never ending loop.
the game and if we lose say 21 to 10 or so i am ok
with that.
and i hope you are right abought chryst and i hope i am wrong i really do.
i want the best for pitt and i hope you all are right i would be glad to be wrong.
but if we stink the place out and get blown out
i hope you all drink a little less kool aid
as for me he has one more year after this
and if we have not got better i will bitch way more then pitt DAN83 .
I just ignore the JoeD comments.
The best you have is to call me JoeD and ignore the facts.
Keep drinking the koolaid fellas.
But, who is willing to put money on the Florida game? Put ya money wear your mouth is. I will give 3pts more than the line a week before the game.
What did the koolaid drinkers say then?
I don’t agree with everything he says.
by just BORING the shit out of people!!!!!!!
People change their minds all the time.
Hope he does well.
@ comments by many here (lawdog, bostoncommons, other) about the culture and style that PC is bringing is right on the mark.
The season will tell the tale… as will national signing day.
until then I am enjoy my optimism that we finally have someone building a program.
I don’t know… maybe I’m weird… but as a Pitt fan… I am actually hoping Pitt does well and wins games… and that PC works out.
Gee… what a concept…
“Yo. Koolaid drinkers.
Pitt has a coaching problem right now. If you want to put your head in the sand and ignore facts so be it”.
I’ll make a deal with you, I’ll pull my head out of the sand when you pull your head out of your a$$. LOL
Biggest problem with that philosophy so far however is he hasn’t produced jack$hit to point to as an example of success coming from those efforts. Therfore he is an easy target for these self appointed armchair coaches to pontificate on what a moronic idiot we have as the head of the football program.
And how does Chryst react to such criticism? He doesn’t, he just keeps his mouth shut, his head down and continues to proceed with the same philosophy, continuing the process that initially made him such an easy mark in the first place.
If he’s OK with that, so am I. For his sake however and for the best interest of the team and University, I sure as hell hope that he knows what he is doing, because as of the current date, his first head coaching experiment is still a huge unknown regarding the ultimate results of the experiment.
