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August 5, 2013

And Now Suspensions

Filed under: Football,Players,Scandal,Suspension — Chas @ 10:40 am

Fire up the outrage. Suspensions are announced and unresolved.

Ronald Jones:Suspended for entire season for “violation of team rules.”

K.K. Mosley-Smith:Suspended for entire season following the happenings at his shared apartment.

Tra’von Chapman:Still indefinitely suspended as no decision has been made.

I expect Chapman will also be suspended for the full season. Perhaps without being allowed to practice with the team.





Baloney BS.
Suspended and still on scholarship is meaningless.

KK and Chapman should both be kicked off the team.
Quite frankly, those recently kicked off the team could have a lawsuit against Pitt for being consistently inconsistent with discipline.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 10:52 am

For Ronald Jones it’s a big deal. He’s a junior this season and with all of the young WRs we brought in, there’s more competition for playing time next year than there is this year. Jones may be wise to transfer.

The Mosley-Smith suspension makes sense. 2 players with previous off field issues were kicked off the team due to the incident, while KKMS I believe has been fine in that area. First time offenders are always given more of a benefit of the doubt. KKMS was in line for a lot of playing time so this really hurts him.

I still lean towards kicking Chapman off the team. A 1 year suspension isn’t that harmful to a true freshman destined for a red shirt.

Comment by Justin 08.05.13 @ 11:21 am

KK and Jones can still practice with the team.
They are still on full scholarship.
Sorry, that is meaningless regarding KK whether 1st time offender or not. Presumably the other 2 had other offenses.
Same with KK, he never redshirted so he will still have 2 years of eligibility as the year of suspension will serve as RS year.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 11:32 am

chapman should be gone. i don’t understand this decision. he was convicted of a serious crime. and we have a history of dealing with personnel who commit it.

i expect there is more to the mosley-smith story than has been shared. there may be reasons to warrant a one year suspension rather than dismissal from the team

h2p

Comment by pittkeith 08.05.13 @ 11:33 am

The Moseley-Smith suspension hurts an already thin d-line.

Could there be a legal issue with Chapman, since he was not enrolled? My guess is they are giving him the option to go somewhere else, a negotiated agreement of some sort. How do you suspend a guy who is not yet a student, and as Justin says it is the equivalent of a redshirt? He’ll probably end up at WVU.

Comment by gc 08.05.13 @ 11:35 am

gc,
Chapman enrolled at Pitt in January. He missed spring practice due to injury.

Comment by Chas 08.05.13 @ 11:36 am

Chapman enrolled early. He took classes in January. He’s a student and on the team.

Comment by Justin 08.05.13 @ 11:36 am

does a player lose a year of eligibility while on suspension?

h2p

Comment by pittkeith 08.05.13 @ 11:37 am

I don’t have a problem in the world with KKMS getting a suspension while Williams and Carswell got kicked off. Carswell had to be a saint in order to stay on the team with his checkered past. I’m not sure about Williams, but he hasn’t been a model citizen either.

The incident was bad enough for a suspension and for repeat offenders, getting kicked off.

Comment by Justin 08.05.13 @ 11:40 am

pittkeith,

Mostly yes. Players have 5 years to play 4, so 4 years of playing plus a redshirt year. If you have a redshirt year left, you will retain the number of years left.

Ronald Jones never took a redshirt. He’s going to be a true junior this year. He can take a redshirt this year and be a redshirt junior next year, so he’ll still have 2 years to play, same as he does now.

Comment by Justin 08.05.13 @ 11:46 am

At least the suspensions are NOT the night before the first game of the year!

Comment by Caw Miller 08.05.13 @ 11:50 am

thanks justin.
now i understand pitt.dan83’s opinion.
h2p

Comment by pittkeith 08.05.13 @ 11:53 am

This is beginning to look like bullshit. Why don’t w join the Patriot League.

Comment by TonyinHouston 08.05.13 @ 11:56 am

we

Comment by TonyinHouston 08.05.13 @ 11:57 am

That’s too bad…..Ronald Jones was our best QB two years ago ! :-)

Comment by EMel 08.05.13 @ 12:01 pm

@ pittkeith

A 4rth degree misdemeanor is not a serious crime.

And it will probably be expunged from TC’s record after he completes probation.

Therefore in 2014, when he’s off suspension(provided he keeps himself away from ex-GF’s and trouble) and has completed his probation as previously noted, he will not have a record at all. And therefore PC can lift the suspension and re-instate him to the team.

Comment by EMel 08.05.13 @ 12:07 pm

Chapman pleaded guilty to attempted assult on a GIRL. He was allowed to plead down from Assult. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail. I have seen Chryst kick playes off for less. Does suspended mean Chapman still receives scholarship for 2013?

Comment by soflatalent 08.05.13 @ 12:07 pm

Police report said girl attacked by Chapman had marks around her neck, he pulled her by the hair and refused to let her leave when she tried to escape the confrontation. 90 days in jail for pleaded down charge. Sounds pretty serious to me.

Comment by soflatalent 08.05.13 @ 12:10 pm

The PG has a spread with all the athletes who couldn’t play ball for Pitt or did but couldn’t last. What we’re going through now is another purge. Many on this board have not studied Pitt football history or even looked back 30 years. There is a pattern. History repeats itself in cycles at Pitt.

And when Pitt goes through these internal cleansings what’s left is a team of pretty bright guys who won’t rob the local store but can’t compete with the big boys.

Miscreant behavior is everywhere in college football. Yes, schools suspend players. The PG makes it look like Pitt is going way over the top.

Dave Hart endured a purge; so did Paul Hackett and
Mike Gottfried, but Mike saw the writing on the wall and left. Dave Hart was 3-27; Paul Hackett was fired before the Hawaii game in ’93 and BMOC Sal Sunseri coached Pitt to a loss.

If you’re going to play ball in the ACC and you care at all about winning, you can’t be out of line with the norms. Steve Pederson, who destroys everything in football he touches save for hiring Walt Harris, is no doubt orchestrating these moves.

The only good result from this current purge is that Stevie will finally, once and for all, be run out of town. And Nordenberg’s reign will finally be over. And good riddance.

Comment by TonyinHouston 08.05.13 @ 12:11 pm

Neither Jones or Mosley-Smith took a redshirt, and both started in 2011 under Graham so both are considered a junior. Thus, the suspension can act as a redshirt year … however, what I don’t know if a suspension must count towards eligibility. Thus, the question is … that if and when they return next year, will they be Jrs or Srs.

Same thing for Chapman … I assume if he isn’t cut, he’ll be suspended. The only diference as I see it that incident occurred in Ohio, and not in Pgh.

Comment by wbb 08.05.13 @ 12:18 pm

@@@@@@
The indefinite suspensions rather than
dismals tell me that those who have been
suspended have extenuating circumstances
in their respective cases. In addition
none of us know both sides of the story
and there are always two sides of the
story.

Comment by JR 08.05.13 @ 12:19 pm

OR, it tells me Chryst may be “bending” his principles cause he thinks team cant let a QB go. Things that make you go hmmm.

Comment by soflatalent 08.05.13 @ 12:24 pm

Question Chas since you are knowledgeable of Ohio law.

If Chapman is on probation, it is my understanding he is NOT permitted to leave the state. He has to get permission to leave the state. Also, he needs to check in (face to face) with his probation officer regularly.

I thought the delay for Chapman was because Chryst wanted to talk to him face to face. How Chapman is NOT kicked off the team is ridiculous.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 12:33 pm

wbb,
They will both be RS JR with 2 years of eligibility remaining.
So, in effect, the suspension does nothing.
No loss in scholarship, nada.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 12:35 pm

Chapman completed his 3 days sentence in time to attend Pitt camp on time (and had already done community work at Kent during the summer)

I guess the justification for him not being left go is that it is his first offense .. while the others who were left go alreday had been sacnctioned.

I am not arguing the point whether the crime was serious enough for him to be sent packing.

Comment by wbb 08.05.13 @ 12:38 pm

Dan83, I agree that the suspension does nothing to the players .. same eligibility.

However, it can impact the team negatively .. since the team is thin in both WR and DL with experienced players.

Comment by wbb 08.05.13 @ 12:41 pm

I view this anymore, like the pros making the last cut to get down to the 55 man roster.

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 12:52 pm

Chas and Justin, thanks for clarification. Did he continue to go to classes with all his legal difficulties?

Just heard Chryst on with Vinnie and Cook. He seemed more relaxed. He said how all of these decisions were difficult and done on an individual basis.

No decision on QB, will have one by gametime.

When asked about starting with FSU he joked about Youngstown State last year. Very self deprecating, he has his ego under control. Hard not to like the guy.

Comment by gc 08.05.13 @ 12:53 pm

wbb,
which is why they should just be kicked off the “team”.
There are many more deserving kids that warrant a full paid scholarship.

Who cares if 1st time offender regarding Chapman or KK? What about that Williams kid from October 2012. Same type of incident as Chapman. Kicked off the team immediately.
This type of inconsistency gives exposure to a lawsuit.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 12:56 pm

I was even thinking of Chapman being allowed to stay on scholarship and play for team after suspesion from a legal standpoint but it is interesting. I was thinking also how it effects the other players perception of Head Coach giving preferencial treatent based on position and team need. (of course I mean perceived by players. I am sure what Chryust decide he has a reason)

Comment by soflatalent 08.05.13 @ 1:01 pm

LOL!!

Why should they be kicked off the team to make room for more deserving kids, when you’ve stated many a time, Pitt is only recruiting MAC caliber
players, who shouldn’t deserve a Pitt scholarship.

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 1:06 pm

LOL… so true Dan,
but right now, I would take a MAC caliber talent walkon and give a scholarship to instead of KK and Jones.

To use Chryst terms, he is consistently inconsistent regarding discipline.

Anything more than a 6 game suspension (1/2 season) should consider kicking off the team instead.
Now, if you want to give 1 year suspension and loss of scholarship for 1 year I’m fine with that. Have that person earn their scholarship back by letting them practice with team like a walkon.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 1:17 pm

All discipline cases should be looked at on an individual basis. History and track record have to play a role in it. Its common sense.

Comment by Rod Rutherford 4 life 08.05.13 @ 1:23 pm

Pitt.Dan83,

Lawsuit? Right. The whole scholarship and grant in aid is a contract where all discretion lies with the school/coach. There are codes of conduct and terms that give the school the power to toss a kid when they want. There is no risk of lawsuit, so stop making things up to make it more dramatic.

gc,

as soon Chapman was suspended, he was also taken out of summer school.

I understand people wanting the players kicked off the team. What I don’t get are what is being used as the rationalization.

Example, the calls for Chapman to be kicked off because his plea resulted in a 3-day jail term. That jail=dismissal because it that is evidence of how serious it really was even if the plea itself knocked the conviction down to an expungeable 4th degree misdemeanor.

Meanwhile Mosley-Smith should also be kicked off the team because of what amounted to a summary offense? No arrest. No jail time. Just minimal community service and the charge was dismissed.

Again, I get saying that these kids should be gone for their involvement in a particular crime — assaulting a woman and allowing a heroin dealer into your apartment. But don’t try to use the punishment as the reason — unless you want to open yourself to accusations of hypocrisy and inconsistency.

Comment by Chas 08.05.13 @ 1:24 pm

anyone ever consider that often the accusser has a motive, especially if it is a girl, spurned perhaps. All she has to do is go to the police station and file a compliant.
First thing a defense attorney will tell the kid even if he is completely innocent is to plea bargin.
Someone in the blog said don’t anyone have daughters. I have both and I worried more for my son getting intangled with the justice system way more then my daughter. Boys are in more danger of being assualted and iif they defend themselves being arrested, profiled both black and white for “being were they ‘should not be’.”
Drinking and or drug possession the sanctions against boys is much more punitive.
Why are teenage football players suppose to held to a higher standerd then their peers at school. Plus they are a target because of their size and they often go around together and drunks in bars wnat to test themselves against them.
Finally Wisconsin had one of the highest player infraction rates in the Big-ten without the compenserate sanctions.
Schell gone because he changed his mind about transferring, the only real proof except for rumor about his behavior, was like cutting your ” ” off so you could see your toes.

Comment by pittisit 08.05.13 @ 1:27 pm

I would call it, not seeing everything in black & white terms, not being consistently inconsistent.

Lots of these things are in the so-called ‘gray area’.

You deal with each incident separately, as JR noted, there are 2 sides to every story.

None of us (I’m assuming but maybe JoeD does), know even one side of the story, yet alone the 2 sides.

Which is why I said, if you guys believe in PC, I will be very happy to let him be the final judge.

After all it is ..,….his team !

Comment by EMel 08.05.13 @ 1:29 pm

I don’t know that he has be inconsistent.

What we all need to remember is this.

Discipline will come from the coach, in what he has in his mind, as consistent.

That would be true with anyone, including all of us.

We all have different opinions on a consistent punishment. Different opinions on what crimes or offenses are worse.

We also, do not know all the details of all of the incidents. We don’t always know if it’s the first time someone’s been in trouble, or only the first time we’ve heard of. Or a continual problem from someone that is always in some kind of a pickle.

There cannot be a written policy, as there are so many dynamics involved in all of the issues including issues that we don’t have anyone involved in. Just look at all of the legal paperwork there is, just for one incident, in our system of laws.

Therefore, what is consistent, has to come from the person that is in charge of handing out the discipline, that he is being consistent to himself and the team.

Seems like a pretty good guy. I’d say with him being privy to all that has happened, how they have handled the situations, and their past, he would more than likely, consistently handle things in a consistent way to himself.

That’s all you ask for.

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 1:33 pm

Dan 83 wrote:

wbb,
which is why they should just be kicked off the “team”.
Dan, I did say that I am not argung if the Chapman’s crime was serious enough for him to be let go.

Fact is the the Pitt Admin knows a lot more about these kids as well as what went on that cuased the arrest than we will ever know.

Again, I will go back to the Jabaal Sheard incident. Both paper reported that Sheard was arrested for throwing a guy through a glass door in the presence of police.

Wouldn’t many of us here be calling for his expulsion having read that?

Comment by wbb 08.05.13 @ 1:37 pm

pittisit,
the girl had bruises on her neck. Pictures of bruises taken by the cops.
Regarding higher standards. Some kid on academic scholarship, if they get below 3.0 (or some other threshold), they lose it. These football players are on athletic scholarship and should lose thier athletic scholarship which means kicked off the team.
I have no problem with how Shell was handled.

Chas, I was talking about exposure to lawsuit by those kicked off the team already having different discipline than KK and Chapman.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 1:38 pm

That’s right pittisit,

Any lawyer will not go to trial on domestic dispute charges involving a woman in 99% of the cases.

You see we all have mothers and daughters and they would never engage in that type of action.

So therefore the jury, more than likely, will have a natural bias.

So they’re all (again 99%) told to plea.

Comment by EMel 08.05.13 @ 1:39 pm

p.s. As when the crimes or infractions occured several months ago, I suggested people Google

(name of school, arrests) and it came back almost every Div 1 school had issues with athletes and the law.

Yep, even dear old Yale, Harvard and Princeton.
Quite a few actually.

Did the same thing with Google. (name of school, suspensions).

Just about everyone handing down suspensions also in Div 1.

Happening all over the country. Does this excuse this behavior?? Absolutely not. However, this isn’t just a Pitt problem.

Which is why, I wish them all well in their lives, but, I don’t concern myself with it too much anymore.

Whatever the HC decides, he’s in charge, I will defer to him. I’m ready for football.

Whoever shows up in a blue and gold uniform, I will be cheering for in almost exactly 4 weeks from now!!!

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 1:42 pm

wbb,
regarding Sheard,
That happened July 2010 and Wanny was relieved of his duties at the end of the season.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 1:45 pm

Just to be clear, Chapman was given a 90 day jail sentence. Only had to serve 3 days.
All the guesses and assumptions about, was the girl lying, was she pissed at him and being vengful? That is all speculation. What we DO KNOW is he pled guilty to Atttempted Assult and was given a 90 day jail sentence with community service.
The ball player should be held to a higher standard because the school is giving him a free education and PITT should expect more out of them than on the field. And that is why there are clauses that reflect it as it should be.
I guess I could go either way. We could have a team of animals with law problems like Florida, etc. Or a team a that stands for a bit more. either way, it is hard to accept if Chryst changes in mid stream.

Comment by soflatalent 08.05.13 @ 1:55 pm

wbb,
regarding Sheard,
That happened July 2010 and Wanny was relieved of his duties at the end of the season.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 1:45 pm
——————————–

Good thing because the program has been nothing but smooth ever since!

Comment by wbb 08.05.13 @ 1:57 pm

The Sheard incident was vastly overblown by the media. Sheard wasn’t innocent per se, but he was hardly a bad guy in this scenario. Taken in a bubble, that incident could happen to any player at any university. Wanny was fired for numerous other reasons.

Comment by Justin 08.05.13 @ 1:58 pm

chapmen was told bye the court that he must attend
anger managment classes at pitt.
so if that is a class then he is back in school even if not on the team at this point.
so he will not be kicked off the team to bad i think he should have been what he did is worse then what smith did.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.05.13 @ 2:06 pm

Chapman has been suspended indefinitely since he was arrested in April on charges of assault and unlawful restraint. He pled guilty to a reduced charge of attempted assault last Monday and served three days of a 90-day sentence last week.

Chapman will not be involved with the team when training camp starts Tuesday, but his status with the program will be resolved by the time fall classes begin on August 26. In addition to his jail sentence, he also performed community service, which fulfilled the terms of his plea agreement.

Comment by soflatalent 08.05.13 @ 2:06 pm

Comment by wbb 08.05.13 @ 2:12 pm

Time to move on folks. Pre-season camp awaits.

Not interested in reading anything more about anyone who will not be helping us out this season. The season IS upon us and time to focus on the talent that is in camp. Focus on FSU!

Comment by Pitt Fan In Atlanta 08.05.13 @ 2:35 pm

After reading what Wbb posted above from panther lair rivals i fill worse not better.
there are so many holes and unknowns i think we could be fucked maybe we win 4 games.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.05.13 @ 2:41 pm

Frankcan,
I agree… reading that made me sick.
I think Chryst has set the bar soooo low on what to expect this year as far as wins.
Anything over 4 is bonus.

But in college football, roster turnover is guaranteed due to graduations, etc. If the next man up can’t step up, then that is a recruiting/retention problem.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 3:42 pm

I really think this season comes down to 3 things: QB play, OL play, and defensive consistency. If all 3 are above average, we could win 8-9 games. If all 3 excel (Savage looks like an NFL QB, OL is controlling the LOS, the defense looks like they did against Rutgers and ND) we could possibly make the ACC Championship game.

Now, if QB struggles, OL gets pushed back, and we see the same D we saw against UConn in the 1st half… we’re looking at 3-4 wins.

And now I just thought of tomorrow’s column.

Comment by Justin 08.05.13 @ 3:47 pm

Justin,
Perhaps that comes under your O v P.
If those 3 things do well, I’m just expecting 6 wins.
I think you are underestimating the talent in the ACC. Please note where many “experts” that follow the ACC think Pitt will finish. Anywhere from 5th to 7th(last) in the Coastal.
For you to think ACC Championship is well beyond optimistic. lol

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 4:01 pm

I’m bored. Time for a new coach.

Comment by steve1 08.05.13 @ 4:01 pm

“The quality of mercy is not strained”, (The Bard of Avon) Please cool it, Coach Chryst or Pitt won’t be able to field a team. I’m not excusing bad conduct, but I do express the hope that DUE CONSIDERATION is being given in each case. To Pitt’s HC–ENOUGH IS ENOUGH:

Comment by Rev. George Mehaffey 08.05.13 @ 4:08 pm

I don’t know about wins and losses, but I like what I read in wbb’s link. It looks like we have more depth in the O-line than we have had for a while. There is youth so it bodes well long term.

If Gordon is healthy, I am also more confident in the linebackers, with more speed and experience and some freshman depth.

Defensive backs are faster with more depth than we have had in a while.

D-line is good but thin, hopefully they stay healthy. I have concern about the pass rush, Price could make a difference here.

We have been complaining about QB for years so everyone should be happy we have two that look decent, but there will be mistakes and growing pains (inconsistency)

Street, Garner and Holtz are solid, and maybe our superstar frosh makes an impact.

We will just have to wait and see about Bennett and Co., but very few wanted Shell back so no complaining.

We will need good coaching, few injuries, and a positive turnover ratio to have a winning season.

We have that tougher schedule that everyone asked for. Hope the fans continue to show up if we get off to a bad start.

Comment by gc 08.05.13 @ 4:11 pm

@gc, I like what I’m seeing for the first time in a long time as far as building a program.

p.s. JP Holtz was an animal last year, anytime he had the ball running down the field, the opposing player was absolutely smashed.

He is a superstar in the making. Some of his smash downs reminded me of the Palko hit running down the sidelines against a BC player?? Perhaps a Va.Tech player, but I think BC.

Keep improving and teaching. Get some wins, recruiting gets better. Each and every year.

I count wins as much as anyone, but I also am looking to see overall team improvement, as well as coaching improvement along with head coaching calls and adjustments.

I’m not drinking any kool-aid. I just realized from the beginning, that we weren’t able to hire Nick Saban or Les Miles, so I never have been looking for a 10 win season, in his season 2.

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 4:43 pm

Drinking the kool-aid, would be people that after year 6 or 7 keep saying, “this will be the year”.

Guy gets a recruiting cycle from me. If it’s still the same after 4 years of his recruits, then time to look. I give no passes.

Not ready to just off him before he’s even had a 2nd season. That’s ridiculous.

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 4:46 pm

And as far as a couple people saying, well, we should have got this guy or that guy etc. etc..

Guess what. We didn’t. HCPC is the coach, and going to be for several years. Might as well try to enjoy the ride. If the sports car is still sputtering in a couple years, I’ll be right there with ya!!

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 4:48 pm

I don’t want to leap to Chapman’s defense, because nobody knows what happened in that room, but I will most definitely say I’ve known some crazy girls, and maybe even dated some of them, and they were VERY capable of pulling out some very serious BS when they are (were…) scorned. That’s stuff you don’t realize until it’s too late, especially when you are a young buck. Her word against yours? No witnesses? She will win it every time. Now fabricating marks on a neck…maybe possible…maybe not. But…I think if it was a cut and dried case there is no way they would have let Chapman plead.

Once again I’m not saying this is what happened. And if Chapman was at fault then then damn it he got off way too easy and karma will catch up with him and he will be a miserable man. But…that being said it is also entirely plausible that he is the victim here and totally getting screwed.

Comment by atlanta panther 08.05.13 @ 5:00 pm

atlanta,
I don’t think so.
Pleas are meant to save time and money on both sides. Including potential appeals.
That said, even with his plea he got a jail sentence and a significant one. 90 days of which 87 is suspended. Meaning, if he gets in trouble the next year, the judge can have him serve out the 87.
He agreed to “attempted assault”. Heck, I never read of such a sentence for “simple assault”. I think he had a aggravated assault charge that got dropped.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 5:16 pm

With so many long haired players these days, answer me this. When a defensive player makes a diving one handed tackle by grabbing somebody’s hair are we supposed cheer or rather expect an impending arrest?

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.05.13 @ 5:42 pm

some folks are always blowing things out of proportion in a negative direction as usual….

PC is not screwing around with troubled players… all he has done has been getting rid of them. If he thought the individual circumstances of these 3 did not merit some movement than termination from the team then they would be gone.

There is no double standard anywhere. PC is a mature man actually being responsible enough to know the facts and act accordingly.

we do not know the real facts other than newspaper reports and reading the mind of the judge and prosecutors.

chapman…
-4th degree misdemeanor… not 1, 2, or 3…
– “attempted” assault… not assult
– ‘visible marks’ …. not bruises….! so is that a scratch, red mark… what.. ???
– who was this woman what were here actions etc??
– zero implication at all that this was sexual in any manner.

read the trib. article… they quoted the judge as saying she (she….) ordered jail time only to teach him a lesson of what really happens in a prison so he understood what prison was like…

if this kid was bad news… or if he really roughed up a woman… then he would be GONE.

Get real. It is not as if he the superstar to carry the team to national champion ship.

Voytek is the heir apparent and 2 more recruits come in next year (one no one can complain about… even all the “MAC recruit” whiners here).

None of these three, except KK, is a super duper… gotta have him kid.

easiest thing to do is just throw these kids away… so PC is backing up whatever he is telling parents about helping their children become men.

H2P

Comment by Pittscript 08.05.13 @ 6:05 pm

pittscript,
Judge didn’t say that…. Chapmans HS coach said that as an opinion of why the judge did what she did.
He did roughup the gal and the problem is perhaps it is Chapman’s 1st time offense and he is a 4star QB. Don’t tell me that isn’t into the thinking of Chryst.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 6:13 pm

Pittscript,
I suggest you read about the shooting that took place outside “The O” the other day.
2 completely different stories.
But a person is dead.
The shooter said self defense and even his story wasn’t consistent. Not to mention he what he did the next day as what seems to me as part of a coverup plan.
But hey, I’m sick and tired of reading about Arod.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 6:18 pm

all i know is after reading that i felt the doom and gloom if chryst was trying to make the fans fill better it did not work with me.
mybe this kid can play at that postion maybe not we are thin here thin there may be thid kid works out if not we will try this or that etc etc.
that kind of talk says hell i dont know who can play
what a buzz kill.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.05.13 @ 6:46 pm

Trib reporting,
Pederson will make the decision regarding Chapman.
It’s not Chryst’s decision to make.
Interesting.

link to triblive.com

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 7:04 pm

On a more positive note (which will exclude Joe D from commenting, lol), there’s a feature article on PITT and PC on yahoo’s ncaa football page.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chryst-panthers-looking-build-momentum-182423781–ncaaf.html

Comment by EMel 08.05.13 @ 7:16 pm

Frankcan, would you rather have fraud graham blowin smoke up your butt? Chryst isn’t trying to make fans feel good. He is giving an honest appraisal of the situation. I don’t think anyone knows how good or bad we are going to be. There are too many unknowns.

New QB, new running back, new offensive line, tougher competition. But it is way to early to panic.

Comment by gc 08.05.13 @ 7:23 pm

gc,
Yep, Chryst is complete opposite of Graham.
Hell, Chryst sounds more pessimistic than me!
I’d like somewhere in the middle. Create a little excitement. Be a little optimistic.
If this is how he is in front of 4star recruits, now we know why he isn’t landing them.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 7:29 pm

PD83, Don’t lose your head, no one is more pessimistic than you.

Although I agree that Chryst is definitely not in the PR department. I find that refreshing. Be patient the four stars will come.

Comment by gc 08.05.13 @ 7:38 pm

JoeD (aka PD83) —
Stop already with the distortions. Your history of cherry picking facts, and outright fabrications in an unceasing attempt to discredit Paul Chryst and the University say more about you than just being “negative”. The Trib article does not say the decision will be made by Steve Pederson. It simply does not say that anywhere. So quit making things up. You should be kicked off this board for acting like a child.

Comment by PetePitt73 08.05.13 @ 7:57 pm

This is what was said about the judge and the sentencing of him.

bottom line if he is a bad actor and did bad things I expect people at Pitt to cut this kid. Otherwise I trust them to weigh the circumstances and act accordingly… just like this Judge tried to do in her own way…

“Nemec (HS coach) said Portage County Municipal Court Judge Barbara R. Oswick told Chapman she is trying to teach him a lesson.
“She wanted him to go spend a couple nights in jail just to understand what you can get involved in,” Nemec said. “She said, ‘You are a high-profile guy. You must be smarter than this.’ ”

Read more: link to triblive.com
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

Comment by Pittscript 08.05.13 @ 7:57 pm

I just got done reading the rivals link wbb linked.

Thanks btw bro for posting that !

Meh, I think most of us knew we have more question marks than answers this year.

Which is why the over/under on Pitt is 5.5 wins I think.

Yes we have some returners on defense, however other than Todd Thomas (and he’s injury prone) the LB unit is very shaky(Gordon is injury prone as well), so shaky you have a kid who never played LB the leading candidate to be the starter on the strong side(Gonzo). Add to that the backups are ALL pretty much untested, save for a few games Ejuan Price played 2 years ago.

No matter how good the D-Line might be, and how adequate the secondary is, if you have LB’s that can be exploited like Ole Miss did, it will be a long day.

For us to be competitive with over half the schedule,a whole lot of the unknown question marks are going to have to become exclamation points (and in a good way !!!)

If PC is ‘underselling’, I think it’s a very good idea.

Nothing worse than having high expectations and not having them realized.

Still look forward to the season starting !
Let’s Go PITT !

Comment by EMel 08.05.13 @ 8:07 pm

gc all o am saying is if the coach does not know
who can play and who cant if coach does not know
who fits what postion.
how am i supposed to fill abought the team outher then down with doom and gloom.
tell me you know some good things give me hope
it sounds like he does not know himself.
god help us if does not know who does.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.05.13 @ 8:08 pm

@emel

nice article on PC and the FB program. Thanks!

Comment by Pittscript 08.05.13 @ 8:23 pm

@emel and @wbb…. thanks for pointing out the link wbb posted earlier. that is a really good article as well… time for football…

Comment by Pittscript 08.05.13 @ 8:26 pm

Pittpete..
“Coach Chryst said he wants me back on the team and wants me around the guys as soon as possible,” he said. “I have faith that (athletic director) Mr. (Steve) Pederson has faith in me, and I feel like they will make a fair decision on the guidelines of my return.

That means it is a Steve Pederson decision. It’s out of Chryst hands so to say.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 8:30 pm

Pittscript,
Yep, that is what the HS coach said.
Told you.
That is not on any court transcript. Just a HS coach sugarcoating it.
Trust me no Judge worth their robes would say that on the record. Easy appeal on the sentencing.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 8:32 pm

Frankcan, that’s why they have training camp to figure these things out. I think Chryst is letting his players know that they will have to win their positions in camp, no one is anointed.

I also don’t think we can sugar coat, this year is going to be a challenge. The only thing I am sure of is we won’t win them all nor will we lose them all. Reminds me of what Bobby Lewis, former Pitt baseball coach said when asked about the upcoming season ” You win some, you lose some and some get rained out” He probably stole it from somebody else.

I do think we have some good players and we’ll have our moments good and bad.

Comment by gc 08.05.13 @ 8:48 pm

Chas/Reed

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE for the love of God DO NOT let Pitt.Dan83 turn the blather into his own personal blog. He ruined one blog- please don’t let him ruin another.

To you Pitt.Dan83 (aka Joe D), seriously, you have so much time on your hands- go write your own blog. Maybe even do some live reporting from Greentree while watching summer basketball. Just don’t forget to tell people you’re there. I swear, with as much dismay as you show towards the Pitt athletic department, you might as well start rooting for WVCC or Pedo St. We, the Pitt fan base, would be MUCH better off without having to listen to how YOU, the great Joe D, would run the program. By the way, still fantasizing to that fathead of Dan Marino on your wall every night before bed?

Comment by hacky3 08.05.13 @ 8:58 pm

@hacky3, so what are the guidelines? Give us something definitive so we know if someone crosses the line. Btw, I haven’t seen a comment from you on this blog before. New?

Comment by panther94 08.05.13 @ 9:13 pm

Wow – nothing has changed with Chapman really – as of now he won’t be in training camp tomorrow, so why all the angst? What is interesting is that this is the first time it has been publicly acknowledged that the AD has as much or more say on dismissals than the HC does if you believe Chapman’s quote of:

“Coach Chryst said he wants me back on the team and wants me around the guys as soon as possible,” he said. “I have faith that (athletic director) Mr. (Steve) Pederson has faith in me, and I feel like they will make a fair decision on the guidelines of my return.”

Which is pretty much what I had been led to understand three years ago. If the administration wants the player gone then either it happens or there are ramifications to the HCs refusal. STEVE!!!!!

Jones and Smith Smith might have stepped outside the rules while already on indef suspension and thus drawn the heavy one year suspension. Jones was suspended before the YSU game and it looks like Chryst draws the line at second chances.

Chryst is drawing a bright line not to be stepped over.

But to get back to football there seems to be much ado about two guys who in Jones case wasn’t in the two deep and in KK Smith’s case was probably going to be passed, IMO, by Tyrique Jarrett anyway. With Jarrett going to prep school for a year there was no real need to redshirt him anyway – he’s bigger and stronger than he was and he already was a beast. Render has to be liking this also.

This is an interesting time to be a PITT fan and there can be no doubt any longer what the agenda for the 2013 season and beyond is – get rid of anyone who isn’t straight up willing to toe the line. Again, it’s a time and effort situation where Chryst doesn’t want players he has to continually watch and worry about. Chryst is molding this roster exactly the way he wants it and personal feelings be damned.

Comment by Reed 08.05.13 @ 9:20 pm

This is an email from Dipaola regarding Chapman which I find interesting. Meaning, I didn’t know.

Thank you.

All discipline, especially when it involves an indiscretion of this magnitude, is run through top university officials. I can guarantee Pederson and Nordenberg are monitoring this one — and signing off on whatever punishment is set forth. It will be a collective decision, I assure you.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 9:20 pm

You say it’s Chapman’s first offense and he’s a 4 star quarterback, so “don’t tell me that isn’t going into his thinking”.

Now, it will be a collective decision.

Come on man, which one is it????

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 10:13 pm

Gotta say, I see someone on here that is much more consistenly, inconsistent, that Paul Chryst could ever be!!!

Comment by Dan 08.05.13 @ 10:16 pm

Dan,
If you read, I said that is what DiPaola of Trib said to me in an email.
Pederson and Nordenburg will be signing off on Chapman.
Seems Chryst is fighting to keep Chapman.
In my opinion, Chapman should be kicked off the team.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.05.13 @ 10:23 pm

The administration is in a tough spot…What we know is that the police and the DA felt there was enough evidence to bring charges against Chapman for a crime that involved violence against a woman. His lawyer did not seek a trial to prove those charges to be false; or at least get a “not guilty” verdict from a jury. Instead a plea agreement was reached, with a guilty plea and a jail sentence, leaving as many questions as answers. “Attempted” assault – what the hell is that?

We have a high profile game soon that will be on national TV. I can imagine that if Chapman is in uniform for that game, we can expect some sort of protest at the stadium that day from a group or groups that support victims of domestic violence. I don’t think the administration will take that risk. They don’t want this situation to be a part of the game day dialog on national TV. I believe the decision they are now considering is either a one year suspension or expulsion from the University.

None of us will ever know the full details of what happened that day between Chapman and his girlfriend. That is part of the problem that a public trial could have solved. As it is now, the Administration must not only deal with the fallout from this case, but must also consider the public perception of Chapmans actions. I believe this is the “higher” standard that many have discussed on this blog. I have a job that requires me to avoid even the appearance of an impropriety. This is the same message that HCPC must deliver to the players.

Comment by HbgFrank 08.05.13 @ 10:50 pm

Chapman and Smith should be shown the door. Now in terms of the schedule Wins- New Mexico, Duke, UVa, Odu and Navy. Losses- FSU, ND & Miami. Toss-ups NC & Cuse. Put one in each category. Game that makes me nervous that I almost went straight L on, GT, speed kills! Game that I think we will win- road game, VT. Hope their QB wants to play catch again with our DB’s! So predicting a 7-5 record in PC’s 2nd campaign! H2P! UPone

Comment by UPone 08.05.13 @ 11:20 pm

TonyinHouston, I am in total agreement with everything you have to say. Watching what is happening to Pitt football now is history repeating itself.

I know Coach Hackett was instructed, outright told, to discilpline his players. I believe there were 8 or 9 o’clock AM required study halls!

I think Gottfried was fired for questioning the Dean of A&S about grades of one of his players.

Let’s face it, academically Pitt is no Stanford, Northwestern or Cal. We are not even ND, Duke, UVA, Chapel Hill, or Ga. Tech. (I’m glad we are in the same conference.)

Academically, we are better than FSU and Clemson, no question. I can say the same thing about most of the SEC. With the exception of Vanderbilt and Fla., Pitt’s academics are above the balance of that league.

My point is, what is Pitt trying to accomplish? This is not 1963. Back then the football team were students first. Check out the number of professionals in medicine, denistry, law, business, and education that came out of that class.

Today, if you want a really good football team, you have to expect personnel problems. You have to bend the academic minimums and the character requirements. You do your best to keep things under control.

This holier than thou stuff is bullshit and means another 6 to 10 years gone.

When you win, you keep the alumni happy and your admission applications go up. Do you think it might help Pitt’s academic reputation if it gets higher admittance requirements?

Comment by Old Pitt Grad 08.05.13 @ 11:28 pm

This is not a big deal. We aren’t talking about all ACC players here. They can be replaced.

Comment by notrocketscience 08.06.13 @ 7:22 am

Old Pitt Grad: Though I myself am a young grad and perhaps not as well versed in Pitt canon as you, your post warranted my response.

1-To be an ‘academics first’ school doesn’t necessitate being Harvard. It simply means you’ve made priorities. Pitt only continues to improve academically. And I can tell you, that while you (as a self proclaimed “old” grad) might not care about that, most people do. That includes recent grads, current students, and prospective future applicants. No one in their right mind chooses a college based on sports alone, unless of course they will be representing that institution on the field or on the court. So the notion of filling the team with substandard human beings simply to manufacture a more attractive win/loss column is a misguided one, and you ought to consider that there is more at stake than Saturday afternoons.

2- On a more specific note, check the admissions standards. They’re significantly more strict than even a few years ago. Admittedly, I wouldn’t get into Pitt if I applied today with my high school stats and SAT score, whereas I was the first person in my graduating class to be accepted to college when I received that great big envelope from Pitt.

The sports will come. Despite post season disappointment, there are only a handful of hoops teams that can touch our record under Dixon.
If Cincinnati doesn’t return a gazillion kicks against us in 2008-2009 (my freshman year… Cringe) we play Tebow’s Gators in the Sugar Bowl, and who knows how history would’ve played out since then. It’s been a rocky few years, and unfortunately, we don’t have the legacy to carry us through the down times. We will be back, but we’ll do it our way– and that can’t include throwing academics on the back burner.

Comment by MikePITT 08.06.13 @ 7:34 am

Well said MikePITT, if you have to compromise your ethics and good name for wins, it is not worth it. For too long universities and high schools have looked the other way regarding the behavior of their star athletes. The situation has been getting worse.

I am fine with Pitt attempting to set a new standard. You can win with character.

Comment by gc 08.06.13 @ 8:00 am

MikePITT, just look what is happening 3 hours up the road.

PSU is similar in academic rankings to Pitt .. yet nobody seems to care.

Now, all they want to do is blame everyone else for their self-imposed troubles FB issues … and went from the bastien of athletic standards/ethics to its biggest sleaze.

Yet, it maintains its high acdemic standards … and nobdy seems ro care. Perspective lost.

Comment by wbb 08.06.13 @ 8:15 am

bastion

Comment by wbb 08.06.13 @ 8:17 am

Academics and Athletics are separate issues.
One has nothing to do with the other.

Unless, Pitt has a higher academic standard for athletes above that of the NCAA clearinghouse. Pitt has not done that as Rob Foster had clearinghouse issues and had to retake courses, etc. NCAA clearinghouse has a sliding scale of GPA/SAT. Stanford on the other hand, Pac 12, does have a higher academic standard for athletes over and above NCAA clearinghouse.

There are many aspects that a student and their parents look at when selecting a college to attend. I don’t think a winning football record is part of the criteria so I doubt applications will increase with a winning football record.

Comment by Pitt.Dan83 08.06.13 @ 8:26 am

Stanford is the exception.

Judging from the types of recruits Pitt is getting, I believe winning games is not the top priority now for the Pitt Admin. Since they are now assured of a stable cash flow from their athletics, I believe the Admin are more concerned with its reputation … and winning games is just icing.

Comment by wbb 08.06.13 @ 8:32 am

Thank you God for having Pitt open camp today so that we can hear NO MORE about this insane discussion of “what ifs” and talk about real things in Pitt Football!

Comment by Dan 72 08.06.13 @ 8:42 am

Getting away from the personnel stuff, I think the NM and Duke games are actually much more important than FSU. Nobody expects Pitt to beat FSU and the other two games can lead to a 2-1 start

Comment by Frank MD 08.06.13 @ 8:47 am

despite what I wrote directly above, I exect the FSU game to be close (barring a lot of turnovers)

Comment by wbb 08.06.13 @ 8:51 am

Actually, it’s been shown without question, that having a winning football and/or basketball program dramatically increases applications to the said university.

Without question. May be a stupid reason, none the less, they go up with winning.

Comment by Dan 08.06.13 @ 9:32 am

Glad to see Foster standing out already for Bama. Wish him great success. They probably have the best receivers in the NCAA right now. Go Foster and Go Boyd! Make PA Proud! Nice photo showing his hands and how athletic.

link to al.com

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.06.13 @ 9:38 am

Plus the fact that Saban gave him Julio’s number say’s a lot about his take on Foster.

Comment by Upittbaseball 08.06.13 @ 9:39 am

louisville got into the acc becuse it had a top notch football program and basketball.
not becuse of academics so pitt needs to wake up
we are not yale so dont act like we are.
academics are important but we dont need to get carryed away with it.
do you want to win 2 games a year so you can say we are like yale not me if you want to be like yale go there.

if that is what they want they should have joined
the ivy leage not the ACC.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.06.13 @ 10:39 am

The level of academics in regard to a football/basketball team in relation to a school should be “not an embarassment.” As long as the players aren’t so stupid they embarass the university when they open their mouth, it’s fine. Obviously they get special treatment. As long as they aren’t cheating (*coughUNCcough*), whatever.

Comment by Justin 08.06.13 @ 10:54 am

we got into the ACC because of (1) basketball, (2) academics, (3) TV market, and (4) BC AD DeFilippo … not necessarily in that order

Comment by wbb 08.06.13 @ 10:56 am

NEWS FLASH! Rumor has it that Pitt Blather and Cardiac Hill might just have some additional company regarding available Pitt athletic blogging sites.

Supposedly the name will be “The Panther Pessimist” and will be currated by JoeD.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.06.13 @ 11:26 am

The Record-Courier, the local Kent, Ohio newspaper has Judge Oswick quoted as utilizing Chapman’s sentencing as a message to him that his inappropriate behavior could destroy the opportunity that his athletic scholarship has afforded him.

The Judge, as a condition of suspending the balance of his jail time, is requiring that Chapman successfully complete “Anger Management” courses through the University of Pittsburgh. This could be a little Catch 22 if in fact he is kicked off the team and loses his athletic scholarship. Might be hard for him to complete the courses if he isn’t enrolled at the University going forward.

The tone I took from the Judge’s quotes seem to be one of “you’ve gotten youself in a fix” and you won’t get off easy again if you don’t change your ways. However it seems to me that there is an anticipation from the Judge’s remarks that she expects that Chapman will get a chance to continue his studies at the University of Pittsburgh, based on the above. Now does that also assume that he’ll still be on the football squad as well, that is much more vague, but still implied IMO?

Read the news report yourself and draw your own conclusions.

link to recordpub.com

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.06.13 @ 12:10 pm

lol Doc Tom on Panther Pessimist.

On the 2nd matter you would have to think, that Chapman and his lawyer probably had some discussion of what would happen to Chapman’s scholarship if he took a plea on a 4rth degree misdemeanor.

I’m sure nobody (especially Pitt) wanted this thing going to a jury trial.

Comment by EMel 08.06.13 @ 12:38 pm

WBB – your comment:

“Judging from the types of recruits Pitt is getting, I believe winning games is not the top priority now for the Pitt Admin. Since they are now assured of a stable cash flow from their athletics, I believe the Admin are more concerned with its reputation … and winning games is just icing.”

This is exactly correct and is a direct result of the last three years in PITT’s history.

Chryst couldn’t have done this type of housecleaning and roster changeover in his first year at PITT or he would have lost the support of the whole roster. I don’t doubt that the plan all along has been to get settled in his first year and remake the program and roster in the second to benefit the program for the future.

I also agree that one or two wins means nothing to the PITT admin if it comes at a reputation cost. I’m sure every person involved wants consistent nine or 10 win seasons but seven and eight will do if the program has no major problems.

Comment by Reed 08.06.13 @ 4:41 pm

Reed per your comment: “Chryst couldn’t have done this type of housecleaning and roster changeover in his first year at PITT or he would have lost the support of the whole roster.”

Pray tell, what makes you beleive Chryst hasn’t lost the players left or will after a number of lost games? (I hope I’m wrong on the losses.)

By the read of this blog, his chance of future success is given a low grade. Negative to be sure.

Can it be that hard to hire a winning coach? Hell, CINN (Kelly),and Lousiville did it. Pitt is the school with the big past tradition!

MikePITT and gc, I need to take some time and maybe give you guys some REALISTIC thoughts to mul over. I do appreciate your idealism. Too bad the world just doesn’t work that way. I will give you additional thoughts when I have some time.

Comment by Old Pitt Grad 08.06.13 @ 10:39 pm

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