March 7, 2013

Bye or Double-Bye

Filed under: Basketball,Big East,Conference — Chas @ 8:00 am

The Big East Tournament is next week. For the last time.

Don’t care who has the name. Don’t care if it’s still at MSG. It won’t be the Big East Tournament any longer.

Pitt was picked for 6th in the Big East while Syracuse and ND were picked for 2d and 3d respectively.

Pitt is sitting in a 3-way tie for 4th in the Big East with Notre Dame and Syracuse.

All three teams play on Saturday on the road — and very conveniently arranged for viewing pleasure.

Syracuse at Georgetown at Noon (ESPN)

Pitt at DePaul at 2pm (ESPN Regional/Big East syndication)

Notre Dame at Louisville (CBS)

Slight discrepancy in the foes ND and Cuse face compared to Pitt’s opponent. It is always possible DePaul pulls the upset. And there’s always a bit of concern for Pitt when they get a full week off. Still, I’m going to assume a Pitt win on Saturday to shorten and simplify scenarios.

If Pitt wins and the other two lose, Pitt finishes 4th without any tie-breakers. They would be the #4 seed in the BET.

If Pitt wins, Syracuse wins and ND loses, Pitt ties with Cuse for 4th, but is the #4 seed in the BET. Pitt beat Syracuse head-to-head.

If Pitt wins, Syracuse loses and ND wins, Pitt ties with ND for 4th, but falls to the #5 seed in the BET. ND beat Pitt head-to-head.

If all three win (or lose), Pitt will be seeded 4th in the BET because of that Georgetown win. The tie-breaker formula involves how the tied teams did against the highest finisher. ND lost to Georgetown. Syracuse, at best, is 1-1. Pitt with a 1-0 record gets it over the Orange.

Now the other question that gets asked is: Does Pitt want the double-bye?

Since 2009, the Big East has awarded the top four teams in the league standings a free pass to the quarterfinal round of the tournament while the rest of the teams begin play Tuesday and Wednesday. Pitt has earned the double bye three times and lost its first game on all three occasions.

The Panthers are not alone. In 16 games, teams with the double bye are 9-7.

Obviously Pitt has skewed the numbers. Flip them to wins and the double-bye debate in the BET would be a dismissed.

It really seems that there is no avoiding the dobule-bye. I have a hard time seeing Louisville losing this one at home. Not on their senior day.

The question should be: How does Pitt get itself ready for a double-bye?

It’s official…

link to

7 are leaving, which means hopefully ND will join us in the ACC next year as well

Comment by Benzene 03.08.13 @ 12:59 pm

Agree, IU seems to have been a #1 seed cruise control since the season started.

They’ll lose one and win one in a given week and it hardly budges them down the rankings.

Even worse than Syracuse, losing several several times before they were finally dropped out of the Top 10.

These media people and coaches have their favorites and be damned will anything change their minds (like losing to unranked teams). You see they don’t like looking foolish.

Another example was Miami, they weren’t ranked for months and months, and then they HAD to put them in the Top 20 since they were in 1rst place in the ACC at 8-0 or something. And then they zoomed them up to the Top 5 in like a week. lol
They have 3 of the last 4 games now, with 2 of those to weak teams, we’ll see how far they drop from #6. Probably not far.

Also it will be interesting to see how far Georgetown(currently #5) drops since losing handily to unranked Villimanilli.

We on the other hand seem to be treated far differently by the pollsters (especially USA/ESPN), so we better win against DePaul for I think they’ll have no problem just dropping us right out if we lose.

Comment by EMel 03.08.13 @ 1:05 pm

If Pitt plays ND in the BET, I might just avoid the game completely. It will be much better for my mental health. I have nearly lost it the last 3 or 4 times the team has played ND. I HATE the burn.

What seed Pitt gets is going to be really interesting. RPI is pretty high but other things are pretty low. I could see Pitt being as high as a 3 and as low as a 6. No teams in the NCAA scare me. Pitt could beat anyone in the country this year. It’s not like a UNC of Florida team of a past is out there that is loaded and just dominant.

Also, about strength and conditioning weren’t some people worried about the hire of the strength coach because he was inexperienced?

Comment by Wardapalooza 03.08.13 @ 1:36 pm

I tend to go with CBS Sports and their bracketing since they are televising the tournament. They have Pitt playing the KY/LaSalle winner in Kansas City.

But who knows what the NCAA will do.

Comment by Frank MD 03.08.13 @ 1:37 pm


There were some concerns about the strength and conditioning coach at the beginning. However it wasn’t inexperience, he had been at NC State for 5 years prior. If my memory serves, there were thought at the beginning that the conditioning he did for BC before he went to NCState was sub par as it focused on flexibility above strength at points.

Comment by Benzene 03.08.13 @ 1:47 pm

Thanks Benzene. I couldn’t remember the exact reason why people didn’t like him.

Comment by Wardapalooza 03.08.13 @ 1:56 pm

I hope this Jerry Palm’s bracketology is inaccurate.

Cause he us a #5 seed in the West Bracket. wtf

And get this we would play the 12 seed, who would be the winner of Kentucky/LaSalle. That is quite a 12 seed.

The 12 seeds in the other regions are Belmont,
Middle Tennessee State and Akron.

Not exactly on par with the 12 seed they have penciled in for us.

We usually get screwed in these brackets, I’m going to expect this year will be no different

Comment by EMel 03.08.13 @ 2:33 pm

@Emel – I don’t think KY is even going to make the dance much less a play in game for a 12 seed. I think Palm has been a little off this year. Lunardi’s isn’t much friendlier to us but it’s better than Palm’s.

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 3:00 pm

Have any of these crackpots ever been right?

Comment by TX Panther 03.08.13 @ 3:08 pm

Tim Keeney at Bleacher Report has us as a 6 seed in the South Region playing Belmot (ugh) and he picks Belmont as his upset watch.

“This isn’t me not liking Pittsburgh. The Panthers have unique depth, are elite on the glass and pass the ball beautifully on the interior.

This is just me loving Belmont.

The Bruins have one of the best backcourts in America in Ian Clark and Kerron Johnson, are dangerously efficient on offense, force a lot of turnovers on defense and have gaudy experience. No one wants to play them.”

Top 4 are Kansas, GTown, Miami and Oklahoma State.

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 3:09 pm

@TX Panther – Lunardi usually gets close to right but it’s too early still. He needs some data from the conf tournaments.

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 3:12 pm

A website called TeamRankings (link to says Pitt is a 6 seed but puts our odds of making the final 4 at 12% and our odds of winning the whole thing at 3%. They give Florida the best chance (20% odds) of winning it all.

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 3:19 pm

I hope you all are having fun with the proposed seeding predictions, and not obsessing about them.

Comment by wbb 03.08.13 @ 3:47 pm

If Pitt does play ND in the Tournament Dixon better have them running and playing the 2-3 zone the whole game.

We can’t beat them in the slow down half court game.

As for the conspiracy by the BE refs….anyone here not remember the 13-9 game? Anyone care to argue that that game wasn’t fixed (unsuccessfully) by the refs?

Comment by Jackagain 03.08.13 @ 4:04 pm

A lot of parity in college basketball this year with no real dominant teams. This could be a year when an under the radar team could win it all if they go into the tournament hot like UConn did a few years back.

I agree with Wardapalooza above, if Pitt plays ND I will probably avoid watching the game also. That tool Brey has Dixon’s number.

Comment by Floyd 03.08.13 @ 4:08 pm

@wbb – definitely just for fun. I’ve been watching CBB too long to think anyone can predict anything much less what the selection committee will do.

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 4:14 pm

If you think Brey has Jamie’s number, better hope we don’t play Indiana. I don’t remember Jamie ever beating Tom Creal. Can anyone think of a W vs his teams? Thanks

Comment by pittman4ever 03.08.13 @ 5:02 pm

There is way too much stressing on this blog about projected seedings and brackets. There is still a week of basketball to be played and many seedings will changed based on the outcome of the various conference tournaments. Save your stress for when the actual brackets are revealed next Sunday. That’s what really counts!

Comment by midwest panther 03.08.13 @ 5:33 pm

midwest,we thrive on stressing over conjecture,and it is a major function of the site to allow participants to indulge in fantasy turmoil.Please don’t ruin our fun by asking us to deal in reality,let alone be patient.COME ON MAN!

Comment by spiritofsection22 03.08.13 @ 5:41 pm

lol spirit22….right on !

Besides it’s Happy Hour. πŸ™‚

And I think most of us anymore don’t stress too much over our athletic teams.


This is all fun !!

Comment by EMel 03.08.13 @ 5:50 pm

aNYWAY now back to some possibilities.

If Pitt can win the BE tournament, that should shoot us up to a #3 seed.

I would like to see a Pitt vs. Cuse final.

Since we two started the beginning of the end for the BE, we two should end it in style.

And of course Pitt beats Cuse again, and Boeheim again repeats >…..Pitt is the best team….by far that we’ve played.

Let’s Go Pitt !!!
Beat the Blue Demons !!!
VeV !!!

Comment by EMel 03.08.13 @ 5:59 pm

My long legged Redhead femme fatale has arrived to accompany me on Friday evening/nite maneuvers. πŸ™‚

So enjoy the evening/nite my Pitt brethren.


Comment by EMel 03.08.13 @ 6:10 pm

Tom Creal, actually Pitt used to beat his teams until that last couple of seasons. The miracle run in 2007, Pitt beat marquette. The tourney before, Pitt beat Marquette. I just think personally, it would be better coming off a victory than coming off cold. I like the way that the ACC does this because the top teams get to play bottom feeders and then wait until the quarters. It would be better to play Seton Hall in your first game than Cuse or ND.

Comment by Native Washingtonian 03.08.13 @ 7:13 pm

It’s Tom Crean. The former Marquette coach who took over the Indiana basketball job after Samson was fired is Tom Crean. He’s married to Jack and Jim Harbaugh’s sister.

Comment by Justinian 03.08.13 @ 7:22 pm

I have no fear of playing Notre Dame. They’re not that good. Yes, they’ve had Pitt’s number the last few years, but there was a time before that, when it was the other way around. I would love to see the Panthers kick their asses.

Comment by Justinian 03.08.13 @ 8:13 pm

Hope you have ESPN3 if you’re in the NYC area. Only source for the DePaul game tomorrow.

Game not on TV here.

Comment by steve1 03.08.13 @ 8:28 pm

Pitt is on WTAE tomorrow…

link to

Comment by Jackagain 03.08.13 @ 8:50 pm

If you’re in central or south jersey, the game is on channel 6 in Philly.

Comment by Scott 78 03.08.13 @ 9:52 pm

The game is on SNY in NY at 4 PM – is the time changed or is that a tape delay? It’s blacked out on ESPN3 in NYS and NYC metro area.

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 10:00 pm

@Pitt Dad — tip off is at 2. Must be tape delayed because of a Mets’ game.

Comment by Scott 78 03.08.13 @ 10:17 pm

Knowing how conference affiliation can change quickly and often does, why would a new conference like the new Big East pick a name with a number in it, like the America 12? It’s freakin’ idiotic, but I wouldn’t expect anything else.

Comment by panther94 03.08.13 @ 11:09 pm

@panther94 – I suppose they can always change the number but I believe as “America #” they will appear in all lists before America East.

@Scott 78 – thanks. That’s what I figured but that’s no excuse for blacking it out on ESPN#3

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 11:16 pm

Notre Dame getting out of the BE cheap:

link to

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 11:17 pm

@Pitt Dad, I understand what you’re sayin’, but once you have the brand name, think Big 10 or Big 12, you don’t want to change it. I guess the PAC-whatever did, but I think the fact that I can’t remember the number is proof that they lose something when they change.

Comment by panther94 03.08.13 @ 11:24 pm

And also, I think USF, Cinci and UConn football belong in America X or Conf USA, but UConn basketball…that just seems wrong.

Comment by panther94 03.08.13 @ 11:29 pm

@Panther 94 – I agree, esp about UConn, but no one is going to really care about the name, even if they change the number. And the conference doesn’t want to get lost in the mix so this way they go to the top of the list.

They could have gone with Pan American conference. Or Continental Conference. Or they could have gone with The Remainders.

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 11:49 pm

IU cut down nets after losing at home to OSU by nine!
Because they clinched a share of the conference title.
Respect is like virginity. You lose it and it is gone forever.
No respect for Creen or IU.
Bring on IU.
Creen’s team can cut down nets after we beat them too!

Comment by SFPitt 03.09.13 @ 1:01 am

“The game is on SNY in NY at 4 PM – is the time changed or is that a tape delay? It’s blacked out on ESPN3 in NYS and NYC metro area.”

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.08.13 @ 10:00 pm

Tape delayed because Mets exhibition game on at 1. On ESPN3 though.

Comment by steve1 03.09.13 @ 7:59 am

Let’s go out with a win and another great regular season.

The ACC should invite UCONN and Cinci. UCONN brings another great Basketball tradition, solidifies New England and New York for TV ratings. Up and coming football program. BC needs to get off their high horse and add a natural rival.

Cinci adds Ohio to the fold, fertile football recruiting area, more TV’s, solid Basketball tradition and up and coming in Football. Regional rival for Louisville and Pittsburgh. River City trophy baby. Thorn in the side of Ohio State monopoly.

This would help if ACC gets raided again. May make ND nervous enough to finally get off the pot. The musical chairs are disappearing. Less non-com games available.

Comment by gc 03.09.13 @ 9:12 am

GC is right! Isn’t that right GC!
UC would be a great fit and in BIG Ten country.
How is this for a slight? OSU will hold its spring game at Paul Brown stadium.
How would we feel if Sandusky State College held theirs at Heinz.
Conference realignment is not for the timid!

Comment by SFPitt 03.09.13 @ 9:54 am

One last thing. Went to the Akron/Kent game last night. The Zips point guard was busted the night before with 5 lbs of pot!!
Anyway, two kids from WPA on Zips. Kid from Moon and center from McKeesport.
They are nice players both.
But they would never play for Pitt…never see the floor.
These are the players Duquesne needs to recruit and get. Not us.

Comment by SFPitt 03.09.13 @ 9:58 am

For Pitt’s RPI and NCAA seeding, the following would help, along with a Pitt win in the Windy City this afternoon.

(11)Marquette (-8) over (70)St. John’s
(105)Lehigh (+1) over (173)Lafayette
(143)Mount St. Mary’s (+9) over (113)Robert Morris
(46)Cincinnati (-12.5) over (128)South Florida
(240)Fordham (+14.5) over (111)St. Bonaventure
(218)Duquesne (+15) over (80)Richmond
(127)Delaware (-9) over (321)Hofstra

Comment by xfmrman 03.09.13 @ 10:03 am

@steve1 – according to the map, it is blacked out on ESPN3 in NY, CT, northern NJ, western Mass, SW Vt. part of northern and NE PA, part of NE MD, parts of WI and MI and, for whatever reason, central FL.

Go figure. I’m in the office anyway but it would have been nice to have the ESPN3 stream. I’m sure I can find some other free website that has it.

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.09.13 @ 10:15 am

SFPitt, Pitt did recruit the Akron center, if I recall it was down to Pitt & Akron.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 03.09.13 @ 11:06 am

can I get the game in new york city on msg or sny?

Comment by NYCPITT 03.09.13 @ 11:17 am

If you get MASN it is on there.

Comment by Frank MD 03.09.13 @ 11:59 am

Does MASN stream the game?

Comment by Pitt Dad 03.09.13 @ 12:12 pm

UConn & Cincy both have high school FB stadiums, so they’re not attractive to the ACC….and as I’ve said countless times…BC does not want UConn in the ACC.

I would rather they both go the way of Duquesne BB and fade off into oblivion. We recruit against these teams….same with Villanova…G’Town….St. John’s etc. and anyone else along the East Coast.

Comment by Jackagain 03.09.13 @ 12:38 pm

You want a stream?

link to doesn’t have it listed.

Comment by Jackagain 03.09.13 @ 12:40 pm

Also just ESPN stated Pitt on ESPN3 now but I who knows.

Comment by Frank MD 03.09.13 @ 1:14 pm

Cuse going down.

Comment by steve1 03.09.13 @ 1:38 pm

Cuse has only 37 points? Mygawd.

Comment by steve1 03.09.13 @ 1:52 pm

Jackagain, The ACC wanted UCONN before they wanted us and were blackballed by BC, so I don’t think the size of their stadium was a deterrent. Besides they have room to expand and its not the size of the stadium but the number of sold seats that matters.
Heinz Field didn’t get us into the ACC.

Comment by gc 03.09.13 @ 2:01 pm

They did recruit him and he was wise to go to Akron. The Subday PG says pro scouts are looking, but only as a body in camp.
He is very slender and plays a finesse game. Pretty 10 ft hook, but doesn’t have the body or the “nasty” to play low.
In the Kent game they needed him to get boards but he was nowhere to be found. Just not a physical guy and this was his senior year.
Good he went to Akron where he could play. Europe? Maybe. I hope so. He made the right choice so that tells me he uses good judgment.

Comment by SFPitt 03.10.13 @ 1:20 pm

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