February 21, 2013

Maybe I’m actually tired of expansiopocolypse. Or maybe this one doesn’t seem worth the effort.

It started with a report from a 247 site. That the Big Ten would give an offer to UNC to join, and probably take Virginia (or GT or FSU) to make it an even 16. Sure the Baylor and Clemson iterations were dead wrong over the summer, but since this came from a Maryland one. And they got it right with Maryland to the Big Ten, it has to be true. Forget that Maryland-based rumor reports of the end of the ACC at the hands of the B1G could well be the next version of West Virginia-based rumor reports of the end of the ACC at the hands of the Big XII.

Take a breath.

Would the Big Ten like to add UNC and UVa? Probably if they want to go to 16. Delany has made it clear that it is now all about TV markets. It would fit with his East Coast interests and would be geographically contiguous. Is there really an offer to UNC? Maybe. There have been plenty of people saying that UNC has had a standing offer from the Big Ten for years.

I’m just not seeing UNC going anywhere.

1. ACC exit fees. Maryland and the ACC are involved in a lawsuit over the $50 million exit fees. The trial is proceeding, as the motion for dismissal by Maryland was rejected this week. No one is leaving the ACC until they see what they have to pay.

2. UNC is the ACC. Maryland fans were very split on this decision because of their history in the ACC. In the end Maryland left because they are in such a financial mess, they have no real choice. Now think about UNC. Their finances are fine. They have long been the center of ACC power. Maybe not as much as it used to be, but they hold a lot of influence in the conference (real and perceived). As we saw with Texas and the Big XII, power and influence over a conference is a strong deterrent to leaving.

3. State politics. Yes, it took a pedophile to get Pennsylvania to get involved with one of the major state universities, but most other states are not that hands off. Especially when there is more than one prominent university with athletic aspirations, political power and money.

Think about the fight in Texas when the Pac-10 came knocking. How Baylor (a private school, no less) started fighting to stay relevant with as much political pressure as it could bring. Texas Tech would have been brought along to placate state politics and Texas A&M got really ticked. How Texas A&M finally got to go to the SEC — thanks in no small part to political support from their alumni governor.

UNC and NC State are under the same state education board. You really think the NC State faction would support them leaving the conference that easily? You don’t think political pressure would be brought by Wake Forest and Duke?

How about in Virginia where political pressure was used to force VT into the ACC in the 2003 raid of the Big East? Think it would be that easy for Virginia to leave the ACC? No matter how much VT makes googly eyes to the SEC, until they get that invite they aren’t going to easily let Virginia go B1G.

4. They may not be the real targets. This might be the long-con. Delany has to know that UNC is extremely unlikely to go anywhere. But to let it out about an offer adds to the air of abrupt instability in the ACC. The schools that would be easier to persuade, and not have to worry about messy state politics become even more eager. I’m thinking Florida State and Georgia Tech. They fit academically. They are in very desirable areas for population growth, media markets and recruiting territories.

Take a breath.

Given that football is no longer about rivalries but $$ anything is possible. Television is transforming the athletic landscape. Given that the B1G has its own TV network, I see the B1G as a Eastern/Western conference with the Eastern conference schools being Penn State, Ohio State, Maryland, Virginia, Rutgers, North Carolina, Florida State and Miami. This scenario maybe way out but…

Comment by MariettaMike 02.21.13 @ 8:39 am

Frankcan, where did you get that Pitt could have joined the SEC if they wanted to? If they actually turned that down, talk about a huge mistake. I’d still pick the ACC over the Big 12. If Pitt was in the Big 12 (over WVU cause teh Big 12 wanted Pitt first), I would probably cancel my season tickets in basketball.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.21.13 @ 8:40 am

Another scenario: what better way to gain leverage in a conference than to establish rumors of leaving the conference. There were many rumors about GA Tech leaving the ACC last year but I just don’t see this happening. Tech left the SEC because they could not compete. However, if the B1G is looking for a market, Atlanta being the ninth largest metropolitan population in the U.S. would be a better choice than either VA or NC.

Comment by MariettaMike 02.21.13 @ 8:54 am

Watching WVU lose never gets old!

Comment by Panther Fan in Hoopieland 02.21.13 @ 8:54 am

Pitt. SEC. NEVER! Period!

Comment by MariettaMike 02.21.13 @ 8:58 am

The fans in West Virginia HATE HATE HATE being in the Big 12. I hear it every day from hard core Hoopie fans who are bigtime financial supporters of their athletic programs. Their life is miserable, being humiliated in football and sinking quickly in basketball. Games starting at 9 or 9:30pm and having the nearest school 1700 miles away. Hail to Pitt!!

Comment by Panther Fan in Hoopieland 02.21.13 @ 9:00 am

Another ranked team (Colorado State – #22) loses on the road to an unranked opponent (UNLV). Interesting story line for K Birch – 6 rebs, 6 blocks, 4 pts (1 FG, 2/5 FTs) in 30 minutes of play but he gets mentioned in the recap because he set the screen for the game winning shot. Yeah. That was so worth transferring for.

Comment by Pitt Dad 02.21.13 @ 9:06 am

With the frenzy to extend cable TV networks, the college presidents are forgetting that the geography and tradional rivalrys do matter. WVU and Missouri are learning that. Maryland is a financial mess, but the leaving that ACC was still a mistake. It probably wouldn’t have happened if the university president and athletic director were Maryland guys. Only the Maryland alumni and fans have voiced criticism of the move. In time there will more and more dissatisfaction with the decision. If all the speculation was about Florida State, rather than North Carolina, I might have given it some credence. North Carolina is the King of the ACC, they like playing Duke, NC State, and Wake Forest locally. They are not going anywhere, regardless of what any blogger says. My message to Jim Delany – Go screw yourself.

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 9:09 am

good post and comments, thanks. You have to wonder at want point logistics starts to impose itself. As per good comments here over time about WVA now… how do you sustain recruiting going so far so often… to no where.

Florida state in B1 is similar, travel.

As per posts last night the B1 strategy seems so brilliant and intimidating right now but with cable TV changing and now the brand/academic standards that was the B1 dissolved… 3-4 yrs from now too clever by half…

Comment by Pittscript 02.21.13 @ 9:14 am

ACC Comissioner John Swofford should retaliate by spreading a few rummors and then offer Penn State a bid to the ACC. Jim Delany is a jag-off, he deserves to screwed with.

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 9:25 am

Sooner or later you’re going to see more “a la cart” options in cable TV. They forced the Big Ten Network on Comcast in Pittsburgh. As more and more competition occurs between the ESPN, Fox’s Big Ten Network, and others, it will reach a point where it just gets too expensive. People in New York City and New Jersey aren’t necessarily going to be happy witht he extra costs for the Big Ten Network. They are banking on getting the New York and New Jersey markets and I don’t think that will ever happen. The mistake that the ACC made was not inviting Rutgers and UConn in with Pitt and Syracuse. By doing that, they would have completely taken the metropolitian New York City area out of contention and secured it for the ACC. No one in the area would complain, because alumni and fans of Syracuse , UConn, and Rutgers would be together in one package.

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 9:43 am

At some point it seems money always talks in college athletics. If Big 10 schools actually bring in over 10 million more per year than ACC schools, that is a lot of money to pass up no matter who you are.

Justinian, the ACC’s goals in expansion are different than the Big 10’s. Like you said the Big 10 is all about markets for their network. But ACC is ESPN, and ESPN is already on everywhere. So ESPN cares more about actual ratings. Rutgers and UConn aren’t great TV draws. Say what you will about Pitt, but Pitt games always get really good ratings, which is why Pitt was attractive to the ACC.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.21.13 @ 10:12 am

The ACC is good for Pitt. Pitt is good for the ACC. It fits like a non-OJ glove.

Comment by TX Panther 02.21.13 @ 10:20 am

I cannot disagree with Justinian.

Comment by Neil 02.21.13 @ 10:30 am

i live down here in tobacco road and there is no way that unc leaves for the big 10, there is too much rivalry and tradition for them to abandon the acc. plus this really is the center of the acc with 4 teams located within a small radius. not a story.

Comment by pittisit37 02.21.13 @ 10:45 am

I think the only schools that actually give a shit about the ACC are UNC, Duke and WF. Anyone else would leave in a heartbeat if offered by the Big Ten or SEC.

It’s a real worry, especially since the Big Ten doesn’t care about sports. They can pick off the academic schools with anemic football fanbases(GT, UVA, Maryland, Duke, BC), which scares the bejeezus out of the schools that do care about football and absolutely need a seat at the table (FSU, Clemson, VT, UNC, NCSU).

Comment by Chris 02.21.13 @ 10:47 am

wardapalooza from the mr sec site back when
expansion was in full swing.
pitt was a target of sec but we did not respond
you know pitt we felt we they did not fit are
ACADEMICS go kook it up . ask EMel i think he remmbers it also.

and the big 12 wanted us before WVU becuse
of are football rep are history.
at the time the ACC seamed asafe landing spot and they fit are academics but who knew this stuff would happen this is all ESPN fult for low balling

and if you go back and look things up i screamed
and screamed that the ACC had signed a bad tv deal
that they should have got at least 20 milliom
to keep pace with the rest and most of you gave me shit you said i was wrong 14 million a year was fine.

but now you can see what this low tv deal has done to the ACC IT HAS MADE THEM A TARGET BECUSE EVERY BODY ELSE MAKES MORE TV MONEY.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 10:57 am

I think the only way NC or Virginia bolt is if they believe that the writing is on the wall for the ACC. If the perception is there that schools like Florida State and Clemson and others will eventually bolt when given the opportunity, NC and Virginia might have to seriously consider an offer to the Big Ten. As important as the ACC is to NC as it stands today, do you really think that NC will feel the same way in a conference of Big East left overs. I think Delaney is planning his strategy accordingly. Don’t like the Big Ten at all and hope that somehow the additions of Rutgers and Maryland will turn out to be bad moves.

Comment by Floyd 02.21.13 @ 11:21 am

We are way up over 14 in ACC

Comment by Neil 02.21.13 @ 11:24 am

Do you really think UVA @ B1G? I cannot ever see that happening. IMHO

Comment by Neil 02.21.13 @ 11:27 am

I like East Coast Leagues. Pitt is not Midwest and it defintely is not Plains. Butgers and the Twerps will rue the day.

Comment by TX Panther 02.21.13 @ 11:29 am

Penn state needs to be in the ACC. I would pay money to anyone who can get them in.

Comment by Benzene 02.21.13 @ 11:40 am

Again, the distance of travel for E Coast Big Ten/twelve teams is a huge expense and schools like WVU are finding that out. Ped State’s costs went up big time upon joining the Big Ten and now that they no longer have an endless supply of cash, you may see them eliminate minor sports.

Think of it…you not only have to transport you BBall and Football teams but gynastics, girls basketball, lacrosse, hockey, ping pong, wrestling girls field hockey, swin/dive softball and baseball teams.

No matter how much say UNC gets paid to transfer (not to mention the $50MM penalty)and the added revenue from a bigger conference, they face revolt by the alums and constatly increasing travel costs. See gasoline/airline mergers!

Comment by Dan 72 02.21.13 @ 11:46 am

As Dan and others have indicated on this blog recently, many of the recent expansion moves make no sense. I think there will be future moves made solely out of fear and concerns for self preservation. I just hope that the $50 mill exit fee holds up. Still no permanent roadblock to additional poaching by the Big Ten but it should help somewhat I would think. If the Big Ten really has extended offers to NC and Virginia, you wonder how long the SEC is going to sit on the sidelines. Maybe that is Delaney’s strategy to force the SEC to act and to help quicken the ACC’s death.

Comment by Floyd 02.21.13 @ 11:48 am

I read on the post gazette that Pitt woman’s basketball hasn’t won a big east game in 32 games. The coach says she doesn’t fear her job is in jeopardy… What is Steve Peterson doing? No accountability…No urgency….winning simply doesn’t matter. Obviously he feels the same way about football.

Comment by Upittbaseball 02.21.13 @ 11:51 am

As I posted a few days ago in a previous blog, it is essential that the ACC wins the lawsuit vs Maryland concerning the full $50M buyout … and that Swofford doesn’t wuss out like Marinatto did vs WVU (although in fairness, WVU’s case was much stronger IMO than UM’s)

Further, even the B1G has to be reluctant to spot an incoming team $50M, especially oe as financially strapped as MD.

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 12:10 pm

Neil if you look it up it will go to 17 million but we are at 14 million now i allmost allwys remmber what i read and i am 99 percent sure we are at 14 million at this time in the ACC.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 12:31 pm

I think Swofford should buy a ticket for a flight to State College PA. I visit to Penn State would no doubt start all the bloggers going. The poaching of Maryland and the addition of Rutgers was done, at least partially to keep Penn State happy. Penn State had wanted Pitt and Syracuse, and when they were off the table, the Big Ten went after other eastern partners. In addition to adding two big cable TV markets, they were getting Penn State two near-by eastern partners, who they could beat on a regular basis.

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 12:39 pm

Pedo State also had to worry about transporting little boys across state lines once they joined the Big 10. That ended up being a huge expense.

Comment by TX Panther 02.21.13 @ 12:40 pm

Floyd you are so right i think this all started becuse the big 12 big cheese said they were
thinking of expansion
and the big 10 might have thought they should move first.
all it takes is for one of them to try to go to 16 say the sec and it will be a race to grab teams agein.

some one posted a day ago that the acc should have went to 16 last time and grabed rutgers and
u con and they were right.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 12:49 pm

Frankcan I never heard that the SEC was looking at Pitt until you mentioned it. If these dominoes start to fall again, I hope that this is a door that can open to Pitt if this is true. Let’s face it, the Big Ten is never going to be interested in Pitt. As much as I don’t see Pitt being a good fit for the SEC, “fit” doesn’t really matter anymore does it.

Comment by Floyd 02.21.13 @ 12:59 pm

Neil as of nov 2012 acc teams will receive
12.3 million for the fiscal year per team
over the corse of tv deal it goes up to 14 million
then 17 million and tops out at 19 million many
years from now.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 1:00 pm

upittbaseball, does anyone care about the Win-Loss record of women’s basketball? If the players like the coach and she graduates players, I could not care less about the record.

Frankcan, you are right about the money. Pitt entering the ACC gets partial money around 13 million then by the end of teh contract it will be up to the higher amount. All of the TV contract numbers are based on the fees at the end of the contract.

I’m sure the ACC didn’t add Rutgers and UConnn because ESPN wasn’t going to add any signficant value to the TV deal. So schools would have made less. This is the same reason why the Big 12 hasn’t added teams, as their contract won’t really go up even if they add FSU.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.21.13 @ 1:02 pm

Floyd that was then this is now.
if you not lazy like me you can go back to all mr sec posts and look it up.
what he said moreor less was pitt academics was
a plus and the tv market and the football history
amd that pitt was a better fit then muzz but the sec has a rule were you must ask to join and we did not look it up i am to lazy.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 1:15 pm

Ward – I’m in total agreement. I can care less…. My point was to the culture at Pitt. If you haven’t won a f-ing game in 2 years and you don’t fear your job is on the line it says a lot about athletics department or lack there of. This isn’t 9th grade girls basketball. I’m with you I can care less but the attitude towards winning isn’t anywhere near where it should be. If it was Steve Peterson would be working at Giant Eagle.

Comment by Upittbaseball 02.21.13 @ 1:16 pm

Giant Eagle is laying off corporate workers. Stevie would be laid off there as well, but somehow at Pitt his job is safe. I guess it all depends on who you know and how well you are liked by your boss. He needs to go back to Nebraska and shuck corn.

Comment by TX Panther 02.21.13 @ 1:22 pm

Dan 72, very insightful

I am learning a lot here today. Supposedly FSU is blocked from the SEC so only has Big 12 as option?

If that is true do they really want to go through what WVU goes through now?

I thought I read somewhere the ACC was going to renegotiate the TV money? If true that would help.

Justinian’s point on the cable TV really hits home on how the B10 house of cards could really come down on them next few years.

Comment by Pittscript 02.21.13 @ 2:22 pm

Pederson is 100% a politician. He is all about cultivating relationships with top Pitt administrators, board members and big money donors, period.

Winning football, basketball and especially women’s basketball games is not a priority. The only way things are going to change is if the big money folks start to voice their displeasure and/ or stop giving money.

Comment by Boubacar Aw 02.21.13 @ 2:28 pm

I don’t like the dude at all, but what exactly more could Steve Pederson do in regards to making winning football games a priority?

Well I think you keep Agnus as the women’s coach because of the whole half the team leaving and because she is the most successful women’s coach ever at Pitt. I mean if she never won before, I’m sure she would be fired. Plus, everyone loves Agnus and thinks shes an awesome person. Honestly, I don’t think the program could do better than her.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.21.13 @ 2:37 pm

Well, he could have a clue two years ago as to what the market bore on coaching salaries. You may recall that he couldn’t even originally sway 2 CUSA coaches with the $1.4 milion salary which Haywood (only in his 2nd year as MAC coach accepted.) He had to petition (beg) Nordy ro raise the salary to $2M plus to get Graham to bail his ass out after the Haywood firing.

I have no idea what the current state of athletics are within the administration, but one would hope that before he fires another coach, he knows what the market is (both available candidates and going salaries.)

Conversely, Ollie Luck in his 1st year as AD knew exactly what he wanted and what the going price was. (his only mistake was retaining a disgraced lame duck coach.)

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 2:53 pm

Going forward, all I want is our AD to have a freaking clue …. and to quit dishing out the BS / the self-serving ADspeak which he actually still thinks is taken seriously.

He is actually embarrassing how shallow he is at times

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 3:04 pm

Didn’t Ollie Luck offer the coaching job to Haywood first and Haywood turned him down? I guess it is better to be lucky than good when it comes to coaching hires.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.21.13 @ 3:07 pm

wardapaloza, what are you talking about?

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 3:10 pm

pittscript to reuegotiate i think they have to wait till ND comes on bord and i dont think they will get mutch more than say 1 mill more per year
but i dont know for sure.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 3:26 pm

wardapaloza no wvu never had any thing to do with

i think what you are thinking of is we tryed to
hire the coach they have now and he turned us down
becuse WVU got to him first danya h

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 3:32 pm

Wbb you know what is all most bringing me
to a panic.i think you are right on 99.9 percent
of every thing you have posted in the last 5 days.
how can this be maybe it is becuse tino is gone.
it is freaky

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 3:47 pm

ACC schools may join the SEC however
(having lived in the south for 35 years) it
would be shocking if any ACC schools
would join the BT. If Maryland
has to pay the 50m exit fee the discussion
on future defectors will be moot.

Comment by JR 02.21.13 @ 4:06 pm

there was a rumor that the new big east tv deal would come out to day but nothing yet.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 4:18 pm

Thank goodness some one is willing to stand up and say how ridiculous all this ACC rumor mill stuff is. The ACC is not that far from the Big Ten in revenue and once the ACC gets their network and other media deals done the gap will be reduced further. North Carolina is not going anywhere without NC State or Duke. Georgia Tech would be way out of place in the Big Ten. It is a southern school with an urban campus. If they ever leave the ACC, it would be to the SEC to join their arch rival Georgia.

Comment by John In South Carolina 02.21.13 @ 4:30 pm

THERE is only one way for the ACC to be safe
from expansion.
ESPN must bring they up to the level of the
outhers TV deals.
and espn is the ACC on tv if they dont
they could kill the goose that lays the golden eggs for them.
how can they not see this.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 4:37 pm

Comment by frankarms 02.21.13 @ 4:49 pm

john in SC revenue big 10 25 million
ACC 14 million
difference big 10 pays 11 million more per
school per year that is a big difference

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 4:58 pm

thanks Frankcan for the clarification on ACC getting more TV money.

Good posts above about why didn’t ACC go get U con and rutgers right away… definitely for geographic strategy a big mistake…

… I wonder if this is where ND screws things up again because I wonder if ACC not jumping to 16 waiting/hoping ND will come on board. … same perhaps with B10? Once someone jumps to 16 without ND they are writing off getting ND football???

Comment by Pittscript 02.21.13 @ 5:08 pm

good point John in SC… I wonder do schools like GT really want to go the SEC and get the butts kicked permanently? honest question… is the allure and $ that high that is worth being a doormat forever?

Comment by Pittscript 02.21.13 @ 5:11 pm

It’s been a horrendous week in Pittsburgh Sports with the Pen’s debacle last night and Pitt on Monday. Glad we are not playing the Johnnies until Sunday.

Comment by Dan 72 02.21.13 @ 5:28 pm

pittscript and outhers ESPN has matched the tv offer big east had from fox or nbc some say it is 20 million per year outhers say 25 million per year
how bad is that if 25 mill per year
that is only 2 million per team per year
but i think that is only for football
they are dealing with cbs for basketball
but that would only pay 4 million per year and be splet 12 ways

how sad is that tv deal but it has to be voted on bye the school presdients.

i wonder if presidents turn it down can they go back to fox or nbc and try for more money does any one know the ansewer to that.
or the fact that espn matched the offer
mean they have to take it?

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 5:31 pm

thanks Franckan…

do you think the ACC not jumping to 16 is because of wanting to keep the door open for ND football?

Comment by Pittscript 02.21.13 @ 5:46 pm

Pittscript, If the ACC wasn’t keeping an open spot for Notre Dame, they could have invited UConn and Rutgers, which with Syracuse, would have encircled New York City. Back when they extended bids to Pitt and Syracuse would have been the time to do it. That way they would have completely blocked out the Big Ten from metropolitan New York. I think the Pitt-Syracuse bids motivated the Big Ten to go after Rutgers and Maryland. Oh well, in any event there is NO WAY that they could EVER get North Carolina.

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 6:08 pm

thanks justinian… that is a good point you have been making today.

yeah so holding out for ND means not jumping to 16 and leaving ACC vulnerable … and what is the chance that ND will ever align football to any conference…? seems like 0.

Comment by Pittscript 02.21.13 @ 6:29 pm

Hope you are right about NC Justinian. Everything else being equal NC would never leave the ACC. But the ACC is not on equal footing with the Big Ten, SEC or PAC 12. If these superconferences come to fruition, and the ACC is the odd man out, league history and loyalties will go out the window quickly. Unfortunately, I think the Big 12 might outlast the ACC if for nothing else, the ACC has the teams and footprints that the Big Ten and the SEC covet.

Comment by Floyd 02.21.13 @ 6:31 pm

don’t really care no more aint playin traditional rivals bunch of generic acc teams that really otside of miami & fsu could care less about.
the wrangling over the labor day fsu game blows as it would be a chance to be on national tv
give nova what they want and make em go away

Comment by Punxy Panther 02.21.13 @ 6:37 pm

Justinian, the ACC was going invite UConn instead of us but the BC AD nixed it — this is well dcoumented as the BC AD made it public

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 7:00 pm

I know that’s ironic isn’t it. The BC AD was Fillipo and he let it slip out in an interiew. UConn is still on the outside looking in.

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 7:03 pm

wbb, I guess we should have sent him a box of chocolates and a Thank You card.

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 7:11 pm

Just listen to Barry Alvarez – he has a big mouth and has been spot on with his statements. Until Barry says it, I won’t believe it.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 02.21.13 @ 7:43 pm

UConn was actually invited to the ACC before us but BC vetoed the invite over territorial reasons. They aren’t going to share the NE fan base with them.

Comment by Jackagain 02.21.13 @ 8:03 pm

pittscript yes i think the same as the outhers ND
is why u con rutgers did not get in to the ACC it should have been done to wrap up the ny area.
if was up to me i would have done it and if nd
ever wanted in i would have went to 18
but yes ND screwed it up.

and i think the reason the big 10 went after
maryland was becuse the acc took ND it was there way to get even,the heads of the 2 conference are rivels it was done out of spite.

now back to the big east tv deal can the big east go back to nbc for more money or do they have to take the espn deal becuse they matched the nbc deal do you know?

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 8:13 pm

for all of you cynics about Chryst’s hiring practices (like wbb), you may want to read this

link to

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 8:34 pm

wbb, Thanks for the link. That was a nice article on the thought process.

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 8:49 pm

Wbb maybe but i will wait to see what happens next year
did you really think they would say any thing different then what they did.

Wbb can you tell me if the big east can go back to nbc for a different offer or are they locked in becuse espn matched the nbc offer.

it sucks that no one would answer that for me
i try to ansewr a qustion on here if i know the
answer to it but may be no one is on.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 8:50 pm

frankcan, I have no idea, sorry

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 8:53 pm

Wbb thats ok i found out after a hard search
they can now see if the outher side will up the bid
they are not locked in.
good luck to them i felt bad that they might only get 2 million a year.
i hope they get at least 4 mill poor big east

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 9:07 pm

If the whole ConferencePalooza deal is to get to 16 teams with 4 conferences.

My big question is: how does the PAC 12 get to 16, WITHOUT ADDING TEXAS, Okla and their 2 consorts (TT & OSU)

And if that happens…the Big 12 is dead and the ACC is safe.

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 9:27 pm

the only other candidates outside of the B12 I believe would be Boise St and Air Force

I do believe the B12 is more vulnerable than the ACC but that could be wishful thinking

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 9:31 pm

Don’t think the PAC 12 would ever consider those two, while Boise is good, they aren’t too hot in other sports and are still considered like a mid-major.

Adding TExas & the others almost happened before and probably depends in the future on how much wiggle room is in that Big 12 TV contract.

You’d have to think Texas added some sort of escape clause since they have the power in B12.

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 9:38 pm

Plus the big thing, those two would add enough TV market money to make sense to the PAC 12.

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 9:39 pm

typo ** those two WOULDN’T ADD ENOUGH TV money to make sense to the PAC 12.

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 9:40 pm

I don’t read many of those other blogs that cover Pitt football and basketball.

Is Chris Peak considered a cheerleader or a neutral observer ??

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 9:49 pm

Good stuff. thanks Wbb and Emel.

If FSU is blocked from the SEC (the way BC blocked U con)… then their option is the B-12 and do they really want that? Clemson there must be a story there as well???

who else would go SEC and be a doormat? (honest question). b-10 you have to wonder as well in addition to great points here will any of these guys actually figure out that logistics and barren wasteland make for bad long term decisions?

seems ACC under some immediate pressure because of strategic error not blocking b-10 out of north east… but if they can weather the moment and perhaps get more tv $ … long term, just seems more coherent geographically, brand, and quality potential.

always thought the best defense is a good offense… yeah, what about going after Penn State?? or is that totally not realistic?

Comment by Pittscript 02.21.13 @ 10:04 pm

Hello Frankcan,

There are many articles showing the gap between the Big Ten and the ACC is closing. Here is one following this paragraph. Once the ACC network comes on board, the differential will close further.

link to

One point everyone is missing is that the Big Ten reached out to the weak sister of the ACC, Maryland, because they were getting concerned about Penn State leaving and with the ACC taking Notre Dame on mostly their terms. The Big Ten always thought Notre Dame to the Big Ten was a given. With the Internet slowly weakening cable TV’s pricing power, the Big Ten network will become less of a money generator not more.

Last note, I fully agree the ACC completely missed the boat when they did not take Rutgers with Pitt and Syracuse. That would have isolated Penn State completely. It was a tactical mistake by Swofford.

Comment by John In South Carolina 02.21.13 @ 10:09 pm

dont think so the big 12 is safe all teams gave up thoes tv rights so as long as the big 12 has the tv rights no one will go any were.
the big 12 is safe the big 10 is safe the sec is
safe only the big east and acc can be raided

unless espn gives us a tv deal that is the same as the outhers or every one in the acc signs over there tv rights like the big 12 did to the ACC.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 10:18 pm

JOHN IN SC that is weong who ever wrote that does not know what he id doeind the acc will not see 19 million for many years tv contracts are strung out
they will get 12.3 million in the fiscal year nov 2012 it will go up so mutch every so many years
first to 14 mill then 17 mill then near the end 19 mill . we all went over this when they first signed the deal

if you look into 3 or 4 sights you will see this id true no one in the acc is geting 19 mill per year now or in the next 4 years.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 10:27 pm

The bottom line of all this expansion crap seems to be that nobody knows what in the hell is really going to happen. I was worried much more about this than the state of Pitt football which appears to be moving in the right direction. I do feel a bit better about the ACC after reading some of your posts-it may not be as vulnerable as I had thought. Next question–When will the Pitt/ACC schedule be out? Neither the Pitt or ACC sites have much info other than who we will play-no dates. My neighbor who is a Techie found the same thing when he looked at the VA. Tech website. So how do we plan our trip from Baltimore to Blacksburg for the game? Seriously, is there a deadline or even a target date for the schedule? Any info will be welcome. HTP!

Comment by OPFIM 02.21.13 @ 10:30 pm

not sure if all ACC shedules are finalized … including whether Pitt opens with FSU or Nova

Comment by wbb 02.21.13 @ 10:34 pm

Wbb or EMel please explain to john how the tv deals
worked in the ACC how it starts out at 12.3 million and ends up years from now at 19 mill
is it call pro rated or something do you all remmer last year when we found out we get just 14 million per school for years.
and how upset we were
or is it called back loaded help me out here explain to john please

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 10:43 pm

The real irony in all this is that you leave a conference where Notre Dame has special deal. Then they end up following you to the ACC where they get a special deal. Is this a great country or what!

Comment by Justinian 02.21.13 @ 10:54 pm

That’s right Frankcan

Most of these TV contracts are on a graduated scale and are more back-end loaded.

Additionally Nebraska & WVU for instance are NOT getting the same money as the other teams as well in the first few years.

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 11:07 pm

come on some body get on here and explain the acc tv deal to john i know you are out there i belive we found out it is back loaded.
Wbb help me out here.

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 11:07 pm

In WVcc’s case. it’s called ……

The Hillbilly factor. :-)

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 11:09 pm

google Haywoood WVUmand a scout post comes up saying Haywood was offered WVU job first.

Sorry John, the money between the ACC and the Big Ten isn’t even close. I’ve read a bunch of articles on conferences and its significant. Conference TV deals are back loaded and increase year by year. However when they announce the deal they say the highest amount to make conference look better. There is also an issue with second and third tier rights that ACC teams get screwed on.

When you guys say ACC should have taken Rutgers you are assuming that was a viable option. I don’t think it was. Rutgers and UConn would have had to add about 30 million a year in new TV money to make it worth that. The Big 12 can’t even get that much or FSU and another school. Rutgers was more valuable to Big 10. Also even if ACC added Rutgers with Pitt. Rutgers still leaves when Big 10 asks. Just like Pitt would leave ACC tomorrow if asked.

Comment by Wardapalooza 02.21.13 @ 11:13 pm

The ACC announced this year a new 15-year television rights deal with ESPN that was to pay member schools an average of $17.1?million per year. Swofford said 80?percent of the league’s TV revenue is driven by football, and men’s basketball is responsible for the rest.

The ACC’s TV contract is subject to renegotiation, Swofford said, with the addition of Notre Dame, which will receive an equal share of basketball television revenue. The ACC and Notre Dame will enter a unique agreement that allows both to keep their own football TV revenue.

The five football games between Notre Dame and ACC schools will rotate year-by-year – three at ACC sites and two at Notre Dame one season, and then three at Notre Dame and two at ACC sites the next. Games broadcast at ACC sites will fall under the conference’s TV contract, and Notre Dame will own the rights for its home games.

Notre Dame’s football broadcast partnership with NBC will expire in 2015, but Swarbrick said the university has “had very productive discussions” with the network about future broadcasting rights

Read more here: link to

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 11:23 pm

Then this: (from Chicago Tribune)

As for renegotiation of the media rights deal with Notre Dame in the fold, the ACC has wasted little time opening a dialogue with ESPN.

“We will renegotiate our television contract with ESPN and we’ve already begun those discussions,” Swofford said. “Obviously beforehand we had already done some analysis as far as what impact that Notre Dame’s involvement with our league would have on that agreement and we exepct that to be a positive one.”

As for that timeline?

“I’m not sure negotiations on television ever happen as quickly as you think they will,” Swofford said, “but I would not anticipate that would be a long, drawn-out affair.”

As far as I know those negotiations have not been completed or the details haven’t been released.

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 11:31 pm

EMel then we found out that was back loaded
and for what 4 years we would get 14 million per school or 5 years something like that and we dont get any of the ND MONEY till they come on board in
what 2015

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.21.13 @ 11:35 pm

so what advantage does ND bring? they have their own seat at the BCS decision table, own football $, so no incentive ever to merge with a conference.

so what does their alignment do for the ACC other than pissing off the b-10 to get aggressive and F$#% with us?

Comment by Pittscript 02.21.13 @ 11:37 pm

Yes Frankcan,

I posted that 8 or 9 posts ago. (up ^^)

It’s an ‘AVERAGE’ of $17.1 million as it sits now.

It’s not $17 million in year 1 or 2

Comment by EMel 02.21.13 @ 11:48 pm

nov 19 2012 a report abought maryland leaveing
the acc the acc paid maryland 14.8 million dollars
at same time all big 10 schools recived 23.7 mill
per school and sense then 3 schools have been
added to the ACC .

Comment by FRANKCAN 02.22.13 @ 12:00 am

from the horses mouth no one leaving ,season ticket sales great,how about 95 for nd club,also buy one get one free if u bring ur invisible significant other.

Comment by paul shannon 02.22.13 @ 8:25 am

Not seeing how the Big XII is more vulnerable than the ACC at this time. It is Delaney who is pushing the enevelope right now while the PAC 12 appears to be content. I think Delaney is ticked at ND partnering up with the ACC as he now sees that his big prize is in jeopardy of eventually taking its football program to another conference. He knows that there are only two viable conferences for ND – the ACC and the Big Ten. Not sure how the PAC 12 gets to 16 but I don’t see how the SEC or Big Ten get to 16 without poaching ACC teams.

Comment by Floyd 02.22.13 @ 9:15 am

The Big 12 is a house of cards….more to the point, it is a house of ONE card and that is Texas.
WVU is languishing and their brand has taken a serious hit; potentially lethal hit at that. The euphoria of finding a port in a storm having work off, their logistics don’t work. Man they have to go a long way just to take a piss.
FSU or Clemson their doesn’t make sense and making money is one thing: how much you keep is another.
UNC to the Big Ten? Never…I can start a rumor about me and Charlize Theron if I want (“I deny any and all rumors that we are involved. she is a lovely woman and I respect her immensely”). But it doesn’t make it true. It doens’t mean it makes sense either. But it does make it news.

Comment by sfpitt 02.22.13 @ 9:17 am


Ok here we go:

Texas, Ok, TT & OSU go to PAC 12 making PAC16

K-State & Kansas go to Big 10 making 16

WVU & Baylor(or Iowa St) go to SEC making 16

There you go, all of them have 16 and no teams were poached from the ACC. ACC can add Uconn & TCU (or Cincinnati) they at 16

Comment by EMel 02.22.13 @ 9:33 am

Big 12 maybe a house of cards but I don’t think that the Big Ten or SEC want their cards. That is the point. You can never make such an absolute statement “that NC will NEVER go to the Big Ten”. The ACC is not as stable as you assume. Florida State and Clemson were threatening to leave within the last year alone. I believe that the ACC is a much better conference than the Big XII but right now the Big Ten, SEC and PAC 12 hold all the cards.

Comment by Floyd 02.22.13 @ 9:38 am

Oooh I like the addition of TCU into the ACC,
gets the ACC into Texas, specifically Dallas/Ft. Worth. And opens up Texas a little more for recruiting purposes.

Oh I like it. They should make me commissioner. lol

Comment by EMel 02.22.13 @ 9:38 am

PAC 12 does not hold many cards… they have no expansion options…other than hoping Texas and her consorts want to join them.

Other than that, they have NOTHING.

The ACC has what they all wanted….Notre Dame.
Granted for now it’s on a limited basis, but that could change in a couple years.

Comment by EMel 02.22.13 @ 9:41 am

I’ve hired a couple Ninja’s btw to get rid of Delaney.

Don’t tell anyone !

Comment by EMel 02.22.13 @ 9:45 am

I agree Emel that ND was a big get for the ACC but that doesn’t mean that the conference is not vulnerable. I think the next few years are going to be crucial for the ACC. The further the next expansion moves are pushed down the road, the better for the ACC. I’m concerned that Delaney will strike again in the short term. Let’s hope that the ACC strikes a richer tv deal in the near future.

Comment by Floyd 02.22.13 @ 9:52 am

honest question… what does the ACC get for ND? Given their own seat at the BCS table with conference commissioners, and own TV $, why would they ever fold football into a conference?

@ sfpitt, LMAO “Man they have to go a long way just to take a piss.” haha, funny…

good stuff on the conferences, thanks… seems if ACC could lock up more TV $ that would take short term heat off? as Frankcan said, why wouldn’t ESPN step up and support football partner?

Comment by Pittscript 02.22.13 @ 10:11 am

also out there if nd goes to big ten , acc left alone ,i say full mem. or go

Comment by paul shannon 02.22.13 @ 11:19 am

TCU will have to improve greatly in BB though…..the ACC really wants to have the best BB conference. Would be great for FB though. I’m sure they would greatly like to improve their BB program, but is a Texas school right for us?

Comment by Jackagain 02.22.13 @ 3:14 pm

I would love to see ND go to the B1G….they can have them. Who wants 1-2 loses in BB to them every year?

I agree Paul…all or nothing…unless they agree to go all in after NBC drops their mutual FB contract.

Comment by Jackagain 02.22.13 @ 3:17 pm

What do you mean you can never make an absolute statement like NC will never go to the Big Ten? I just did!
I get your point, but I don’t agree with it. The Big ten would take UT in less time than it takes Mac Brown to comb his hair. UT is a great school with smoking hot women. Texas is a huge state with huge TV markets! Anyone who doesnt want them in their conference is a fool.

Comment by SFPitt 02.22.13 @ 5:24 pm

RE ACC tv revenue – there seem to be a lot of “experts”. Forbes recently reported on total revenue by conference which shows ACC got an avg of $20M per team in TV money alone last year:

link to

I don’t know who is right, but I see no reason to trust any of the other sources any more than Forbes.

Comment by Hokie Mark 02.22.13 @ 8:45 pm

If NC and VA want to leave the ACC for the B1G let them pay the $50,000,000 exit fee and leave. With MD already leaving, that’s $150,000,000 in the ACC coffers. Somehow I don’t see these schools throwing away $50,000,000, but…

Comment by MariettaMike 02.23.13 @ 8:21 am

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