December 25, 2012

Merry Christmas and Happy Depth

Filed under: Basketball,Players — Chas @ 12:14 pm

Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday with friends and family. I’m still counting down to the end of the year with the same football coach. Don’t want to get cocky, but I think Pitt will make it this year.

You’ll be forgiven for skipping the Kennesaw St.-Pitt game. Even more so, if you watched but didn’t listen closely to the broadcast itself.

During the game, the play-by-play guy, Jeff Hathhorn commented to Julius Page about the injuries to Dante Taylor and Durand Johnson by calling it a concern, because Pitt “only” played 10 players in the rotation. There was a pregnant pause as Page must have been searching for the words. Finally he very gently told Hatthorn that Pitt is playing with some ridiculous depth to go 10-deep.

[As an aside, Julius Page acquitted himself well as color analyst. He just has to drop saying “most definitely” when he agrees with something his booth mate says.]

With a bench that is J.J. Moore, Dante Taylor, Cam Wright, Trey Zeigler and Durand Johnson; Pitt is giving 40% of its available minutes (80 out of 200 minutes) to the bench. No doubt it will shrink during conference play.

Still, Coach Dixon envisions sticking with giving all 10 players time.

Where in years past Dixon has shortened his bench to an eight-man rotation for Big East play, the Pitt coach seems open to the idea of going 10-deep this season.

“Most games, you‘re probably going to see 10 guys out there,” Dixon said, later calling it “a good thing.”

“It gives us some options and keeps guys in the right positions. And I think the versatility of these guys will allow us to do some things, too.”

It’s also given a lot of confidence to the players coming off the bench. Both Durand Johnson and Cam Wright are showing a comfort and confidence level out there. Something that was apparent even with just a handful of games played in November.

Dixon said this is probably the deepest bench, in terms of scoring, that he has coached in his decade at Pitt. What might make or break the season is the development of wings Durand Johnson, Trey Zeigler and Cameron Wright.

Dixon is high on all three, but they are all still trying to find their niche in the rotation.

“Those guys will be key for us,” he said. “They’re right there. They can do some things. It just seems like they need minutes, some confidence. They’ve had some good minutes, some good production at times. Putting it together and being consistent will be the test here as they go forward. ‘Zeig’ is getting more and more comfortable, in better shape. Durand is getting a better understanding of what we’re looking for. We’re excited about those guys.”

The production off the bench is a far cry from what Dixon had to work with last season. Pitt’s reserves are outscoring opponents’ reserves, 174-44, in the first four games. The 174 points represent 45 percent of the team’s points. The reserves last season were not nearly as productive or consistent in their roles.

One of Dixon’s problems is finding enough time to go around and keep all of them happy.

“It’s a nice problem to have and that’s what good teams have,” Dixon said. “I felt at times last year I didn’t know who to put in. This time I have some options. It’s a nice rotation if we can keep everyone on the floor and out of foul trouble.”

Johnson has been developing nicely. The redshirt season helped get him mentally ready to be playing on this team. He’s embracing being a more rounded player.

“Coach Dixon is big on defense, so I focused on the defensive end and let the offense come to me,” Johnson said. “If you’re on the floor, you’ll get looks on the offensive end. Focusing on defense helped me out a lot. I just relax, take my time and let the game come to me. On the offensive end, Dixon talks about not forcing it. I’m not forcing it, playing my game and waiting for my time to come.”

Johnson could turn out to be an important player in the rotation. Dixon has admitted this will not be among his best 3-point shooting teams. Woodall likely is the team’s top perimeter threat, but there aren’t many other options beyond him and junior Lamar Patterson, who led the team with a 41 percent clip from behind the arc a year ago.

Johnson came to Pitt with the reputation as a strong outside shooter, and he has made 2 of his 3 attempts from behind the 3-point line this season. But he knows he won’t be able to win a permanent spot in the rotation unless he continues to contribute in other areas such as defense and rebounding.

“I don’t want to be known just as a shooter,” he said. “I want to be a guy who plays defense, mixes it up on offense, get guys involved and be an all-around player.”

I’ve been impressed with Johnson’s patience on offense. He still has some moments as you would expect, but he really does get it. That the ball will reach you on offense. If you have the best shot, then you can take it. As he develops over the next year or two, I can see him being one of the primary scorers.

Chas, Great post! I would love to see Dixon being able play 10 in Big east play. The after DeJuan Blair went pro, the Panthers seemed comfortable playing more people than they had in previous years’

Comment by Justinian 12.25.12 @ 12:30 pm

I’ve been following Pitt hoops since the 70s. This is one of the most deep teams Very athletic and good ball hawking. Also will be able to transition quickly. They will be exciting to watch. Good luck Panthers. Back to NCAAs

Comment by Wes 12.25.12 @ 1:22 pm

Merry Christmas Chas….and thanks for the blog!

Comment by Jackagain 12.25.12 @ 1:51 pm

Watched the BB game. Players obviously
can’t wait
to play meaningful games. UC next week
then the Compass Bowl. A win over
an SEC team would end the year on a high

Comment by JR 12.25.12 @ 3:07 pm

11 Days and then the football team is apart of the ACC unofficially.

Good bye old year, and old conference!

Comment by Lou Gagliardi 12.25.12 @ 4:51 pm

I hope Dixon has done it again. We need to play some of the better teams in the Big East before we find out if the main youngster(Adams) can hold up and get better. Taylor’s experience will help with the pressure of close games.

I’ve been reminiscing on the past of PITT football. I remember touring PITT with my oldest son and running into Craig Haywood by the Towers. We are also from N.J. After about five minutes, Craig had my son kicking field goals for PITT before we finished our meeting. What a nice person he was.

I didn’t like the dorm situation at PITT at the time. I’m sure being an alumni, I could have pushed and got him a room. We flew to Syracuse that evening and against his wishes pushed Syracuse as the best choice for him at that time. He went on to Rutgers Law and is a major player with local political,Munis,zoning,and family law in Northern Jersey. He is now 45 years old.

The reason I bring up this period, it was the last time PITT was a major player in football. We had a few good years under Gottfried and then a steady decline.

PITT Stadium got riped down. I’ve seem the Peterson Event Center and the open grass area where the rest of PITT Stadium stood. All of that was good for men’s Basketball bad for football.

However the short insight of PITT’s AD Peterson is numbing. And our University took him back after he was fired by Nebraska!

Norinberg, or what ever his name is, will be remembered by the AD of this period, not the good work that he has done for the school. What a shame.

Now we have got to continue talking about building a new footbHopefullyium. Hopefully Western Pa. will rebound with fracking money.

Comment by Old Pitt Grad 12.25.12 @ 5:50 pm

We’ll know how deep were are when the season starts next week.

Comment by alcofan 12.25.12 @ 6:00 pm

Durand can be an elite player in a few years. Im convinced of it. Hes a 6’7″ shooting gaurd with good length and athleticism. That size and length could make him a lockdown defender and in college, the biggest guy thatll gaurd him is 6’5″ so he has a distinct advantage on both ends. Once he becomes more agressive i can see him being a 17 pt, 6 rebound per game guy. I like him now and love his upside

Comment by Pk 12.25.12 @ 6:04 pm

Old Pitt Grad, I loved Pitt Stadium, despite its lack of amenities. It had great sight lines and even from the top rows, you were much closer to the action. No one will every convince me that the Peterson Events Center couldn’t have been built up above somewhere near Trees Pool or on the other side of the hilltop. That being said, it’s gone now. Whether you love it or hate it, the games from here on in, will be played at Heinz Field. I think the South Side complex, next door to the Steelers, is a major selling point for prospective recruits.

Comment by Justinian 12.25.12 @ 8:10 pm

I love Pitt Stadium too, but people need to stop living in the past. This is 2012, not 1925 or 1976 or 1991.

We need to realize that Pitt is at Heinz Field for the long haul.

Comment by Lou Gagliardi 12.25.12 @ 8:24 pm

even Steve Pederson bailed halfwayu through Kennasaw st. sitting down in front of the media first row in corner. about 14 min mark 2nd half he was gone. Place was half full again. is it really worth it to have all thease terrible NC games?? can we just play some good teams in the preseason? TO$U played Kansas, did tah loss really hurt them come ncaa tournament selection sunday??

Comment by Punxy Panther 12.25.12 @ 9:09 pm

OSU played both Duke (away) and Kansas (home). I look for Matta to be at the top of the UCLA wish list at seasons end.
I will be at the UC game: lots of reports say UC can be had. Maybe so, but we will need good games from Adams and Taylor.
I can’t overstate how big the UC game is for our season.

Comment by SFPitt 12.25.12 @ 10:08 pm

Good to see that Pitt alum Sean Miller has his Arizona team playing their best in 25 seasons. They currently look like a final four team.

Comment by MariettaMike 12.26.12 @ 8:55 am

@SFPitt,Haven’t seen any UC can be had reports,I think we are extremely fortunate to be opening at home.I agree with your point about this game being huge.I don’t think anyone is too confident either way. We win it justifies the noncon schedule a bit,we lose we get to continue under the radar hoping to develop as the season progresses.UC guards are real good and they are big and deep.The bigs are alittle clumsy.They are well coached and haven’t played a much tougher schedule than ours.They play New Mexico tomorow night at home.I am so glad this game is at the Pete,we might need some magic.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.26.12 @ 9:33 am

I think the game against Cincy is a good barometer to see where Pitt is at this point in the season, but it is hardly huge. The season is still young, and Pitt has not come close to peaking yet, which is a good thing. I want to see this team get better as the season goes on. I will be more concerned how they are playing towards the middle and back end of big east conference play. A win against Cincy would certainly be a boost to this team’s confidence and generate some national pub.

Comment by Floyd 12.26.12 @ 10:13 am

I really like what I see when Durand Johnson is on the floor..he plays hard every minute and seems to have a lot of heart..I see him being a huge leader and a big scorer in years ahead.

Hey Old Pitt Grad..Glad your meeting with Ironhead went well in the 80’s at the tower…my recollections of him at the Towers at that time waa him beating up a pizza deliery guy.

I hated Pitt Stadium. The track around the stadium made the endzone seats terrible..benches were cold…crowds were small even when they did win…back then the excuse for poor attendance was that Pitt stadium was too hard to get to. An on campus field for students I do admit, would be nice but considering the land sitution in Oakland it ain’t going to happen.

Comment by milo bloom 12.26.12 @ 10:36 am

Sean Miller is a good coach and was a great hire for them. I think Arizona will have a very good coach for a very long time.

For those of you talking about an on campus football stadium, it’s not going to happen. No one loved Pitt Satdium more than me, but it’s gone and it’s time to move on. Our games, like or not are going to be played at Heinz Field. Steve Pederson presented his case, as though the attendance problems were due to the old stadium, parking in Oakland, etc. The attendance is about winning. If Paul Chryst can put together a consistantly strong program, we’ll gett fannies in the seats. If they win it won’t matter where the stadium is.

Comment by Justinian 12.26.12 @ 10:50 am

Agree that we should drop the idea about a “new” football stadium. No room for 70,000 seat stadium which will be close to what Heinz Field will be when new seats are added. Win and they will come! Live in Allentown, attend one game per year and was a grad student at Pitt when we won National Cahmapionship. Hated Pitt Stadium with out dated facilites and love Heinz Field. Looking forward to a big win against Cincy! Hail to Pitt

Comment by Bruce F 12.26.12 @ 11:18 am

Yup couldn’t agree and attendance problem will be a non issue.

Comment by milo bloom 12.26.12 @ 12:19 pm

Great to play at Heinz but something better must be done for students.
If I were a Pitt student today I would still go to the games but the buses are not my way of having fun.
Maybe a rail line where the service was frequent and you could still sneak a beer or cocktail or two.
Pitt needs to have a student tailgate area with some refreshments.

Comment by frank MD 12.26.12 @ 1:03 pm

Curb your enthusiasm until we see how well Dixon coaches in a tight game against a well-coached, equally talented team.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.26.12 @ 1:08 pm

Frank MD, You’re right it would nice if the students had another game-day transit option. With the tunnel under the Allegheny, if T had a link into Oakland it would help.

Comment by Justinian 12.26.12 @ 1:39 pm

I call the UC game “huge” because of how it might affect our teams’ somewhat fragile ego. For a team with 2 freshmen starters and no real “leader” (yet), a win could properl them to great things while a loss may set them back for a few games.
After UC, we go on the road and this is a team that hasn’t played a road game yet. I have been to games at the RAC and it is a tough place to play. Rice will be out of jail by then and will have his team pumped. Then we go to Georgetown, which has a good team and at a venue where we have not always played well.
In short, an 0-3 start is possible.
If we win the first game against UC, I see us either at 2-1 or 3-0 to start conference play. We lose the firt game, I make it even money we start 0-3. That is a big hole…no, that is a “huge” hole to climb out in a great conference in its last year.

Comment by sfpitt 12.26.12 @ 1:45 pm

I’d be absolutely shocked if Pitt does not beat Cincy. They’ve been bored playing these teams and I think they are more than ready to get into big east play.

Comment by Vulcan Rob 12.26.12 @ 2:29 pm

@sfpitt, Barring injuries I think your even money is overstating the competition.I read this team stronger than that and would be extremely upset with that kind of start. I have stated at this site before that we should assume that last year was unique and should look for this team to be a return to normalcy. I see the CU game as very even but I am confident that we will handle Rutgers and Georgetown,road games aside.Rutgers does not have the talent to compete and Georgetown lacks depth and offensive skills.I see this team being a level above that type of failure and am reasonably certain that type of performance isn’t likely to be revisited.Even with a loss against the Bearcats I don’t see any likelyhood of an 0-3 start.Are guards can play and our frontcourt is imposing.We have a strong bench and are well coached. Possible we lose 2 but 3 no way.More likely we win 2or 3 than anything.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.26.12 @ 2:46 pm

@spiritof section22
I hope you are right, but we are a young team and young people will disappoint from time to time. After all, they “play” the games for a reason and we are not immune to upsetting or being upset ourselves.

Comment by sfpitt 12.26.12 @ 3:05 pm

@sfpitt,I think the key to the whole deal comes down to two things. Woodall and Taylor need to step up as seniors and provide the leadership,and our freshman need to play with maturity.I think a team typically reflects the coach and I am reasonably certain we can expect this team to exceed this years expectations.Adams can change everything he is so talented and Robinson looks like he has been here for 3 years already. Woodall and Taylor either play great or suck.We need the good seniors to show up most nights now that noncon is over,they have an opportunity to be the seniors that took us deepest and it seems about time things fell our way.If not unlike last year either lead or get out of the way because there is enough talent that we can still compete without you.HTP

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.26.12 @ 3:45 pm

As much as we say we’re going to play 10 guys, imo as these games are going to be closer, you’re not going to see much of Durand Johnson or Trey Zeigler unless there’s foul trouble or something like that (injuries).

Since these two guys were only playing 10-15 minutes (Johnson 10 mpg, Zeigler 16 mpg) against the rent-a-win schools, they aren’t going to see much action unless the games are blowouts in the 2nd half (or in some cases the 1rst half).

Although I could see Zeigler play maybe a little more if Pitt’s offense is stagnant since he can dribble/penetrate/dish/score.
But it would have to be a good matchup since his defense isn’t up to snuff yet, so he’d have to be guarding someone who isn’t an offensive threat.

I also have a concern with BigEast officiating in this our final season in this conf. While other schools are leaving too, the conf. seems to have a certain disdain for PITT. As you last saw when the 7 schools left together, it was all good cheer & good luck to them from the conf. office. Same thing with ND, as they got to play in the SEC/BE challenge and even got the marquee opponent in Kentucky. We got zilch and pretty much, ‘don’t let the door hit you on the backside on the way out’.

Which is what I expect from BE officiating this year as well. So that means we could be seeing a lot of Sleepy at Center, so he better get his heel in order. Key to the season imo, is the continued good play of James Robinson, as he sets the tone, limits turnovers and keeps Woody the turnover machine away from PG.

Another key obviously is the continued development of Steve Adams and him learning on the job like, in the rough play tactics of the BigEast.
He like most world or Euro players are finesse players. It will be interesting how long it takes for him to learn a more physical game.
While it was early in the season he got totally pushed around in the game vs Michigan.

With that in mind, I think the non-conference scheduling was brilliant, as we are still in the Top 25, have a chance to move up quickly to the Top 15 with just one (1) win (UC) and afforded some much needed time for Adams & Robinson to gain some much needed confidence and maturity. And actually the team as a whole, needed that after last years 5-13 mark in the BigEast.

For those of you that were bored with the schedule, well you could never be a Syracuse fan, for they schedule their non-con like that EVERY Year ( 9 times out of 10). Usually never leaving the Carrier Dump or the state of NY.


Comment by Emel 12.26.12 @ 4:43 pm

Are we in trouble? The new rumor Florida st and Clemson to ACC and unc and ga tech to b10 end of jan.. Any truth?

Comment by Cdmoore25 12.26.12 @ 5:04 pm

I love these comments about Pitt Stadium. Too old, no amenities, seats cold, piss troughs.

Sounds like a bunch of old guys or girls. lol

What do you think Notre Dame stadium is like ?
All college stadiums (or near all) have bench sitting. And the older alumni have no problem sitting on them. Just bring some booze and shutup. It’s part of the college football experience. Just like college cheerleaders and the marching band and pretty girls. You want amenities, go to Consol Energy Center and pretend you’re something. :-) (just getting my rant going)

You NEVER want to tear down history if you can avoid it. And certainly NOT with the history that PITT football has. In fact, that history is the only thing that we can look back on and hope someday we can attain again. If not for PITT’s history, I doubt we even have a D1 program anymore and certainly we’d have UC type crowds all the time if we did.

Pitt stadium could have been refurbished just like they just did with Stanford Stadium recently, as well as other older college stadiums.
NOBODY is tearing down their college stadiums.
If there would have been a will, they would have found a way to refurbish Pitt Stadium just like other older ones have been refurbished.

No Stevie Cornhole, wanted to make his mark on Pitt’s program. First with the rebranding of a program with 9 national championships. Since he wasn’t from Pittsburgh or an alumnus, what did he care, he just wanted to remake us in his image, much like someone suffering with a God complex.

So when a philanthropist/donor (John Peterson) with a name similar to his(Pederson)came along, he saw his chance to have his name (close enough) to be put in “lights” eternally. In fact most ppl not associated with Pitt, think the Peterson Events Ctr. is named after Stevie boy. He even had the audacity as mentioned before to rebrand us from “PITT” which the University itself had be known as for 80 years to “Pittsburgh” Change the sports teams colors, helmets, logos, everything, all in his image. Just unbelievable he was able to do all this, coming here as an ‘outsider’.
Again this was a proud program with 9 football national championships and some of the most famous football players/coaches of All-time.
Sheesh even the legendary Pop Warner coached PITT Nope didn’t matter, Stevie boy knew better.

This wasn’t some podunk program with no history, no tradition, no nothing, this was PITT !
I can see why most of us, including most of the former players, went absolutely ballistic and refused to participate in fund raising, alumni events, etc. As if this wasn’t bad enough, he then forces out a ‘real Pitt guy’ as coach and probably the best ambassador a college could EVER have, for a Baby Daddy wife beater, that couldn’t carry the real Pitt guy’s jock. But I regress.

There is no college atmosphere at Heinz Field and worse when all the students ‘bail out’ at the end of the 3rd quarter, to get back where.

There can be an On-Campus stadium again in Oakland. All we need is someone in charge,
with a will to get it done.

Comment by Emel 12.26.12 @ 5:38 pm

If it were true, yes it would be big trouble. I’ve heard Florida State and Clemson mentioned in every rumor concerning the SEC and a few with the Big 12. I’ve even heard North Carolina brought up as an attractive target, for the the Big Ten. However the ACC is and has been the conference that North Carolina built. Their relationship with Duke, NC State, Wake Forest make it inconcievable for me to believe that they would ever leave the conference. Also ESPN has a lot riding on the ACC. They won’t sit idly by and watch it go down the drain. With all the dollars being thrown around, ESPN will have to chip in more money to keep any more ACC teams from considering a move. The Big Ten Network is allied with Fox. Also there is the 50 million dollar ACC exit fee. I don’t think they are going anywhere.

Comment by Justinian 12.26.12 @ 5:44 pm

@emel , Don’t know how closely you have been watching the last 3 games but I think Zeigler could be the 1st guard off the bench off recent play.I think you are wise to be suspicious of what the Big East officials have in store for us.I am very well aware of Taylor’s shortcomings but also of the oppinion we lose to Oakland without his play and I hope he is healthy and able for UC.Adams might have been ill prepared for Michigan in the Garden but I don’t recall this total push around you seem to have seen.I think he will more than hold his own.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.26.12 @ 5:47 pm

That’s an old rumor Cdmoore25.

Trying to generate some holiday cheer or what?

I heard Penn State to the ACC. As they’re not real thrilled with being placed in a division with both Rutgers & Maryland. And will have to share their previously virgin B1G recruiting turf with these two.

Texas is also in talks with the Pac 12 again, so that would blowup the Big 12.

Comment by Emel 12.26.12 @ 5:48 pm

Emel, I share you’re opinion on Steve Pederson. The decision to tear down Pitt Stadium, re-branding the school from Pitt, to Pittsburgh with the groundhog logo was terrible. I would have envisioned a referbishing like was done at the Rose Bowl or at Stanford Stadium, where benches were taken out and modern seating put in, locker roomes redone and new press boxes installed. As for the piss troughs, we still have them at Heinz Field, only they’re stainless steel.

Comment by Justinian 12.26.12 @ 5:53 pm

I hope your right Justinian in regards to ESPN putting more money on the table if The Big Ten or SEC try and poach for more teams. I think Delaney’s long-term goal is to weaken the ACC to the point where ND is forced to join the Big Ten. I believe he is sitting back and hoping that the SEC or even the Big XII makes the next and decisive move so the Big Ten doesn’t look like the bad guy in the eyes of ND.

Comment by Floyd 12.26.12 @ 6:01 pm

Emel, Another thing, Steve Pederson wasn’t an alumnus or from the area. He really had no respect for the tradition, history, or the idenity of the school. Dropping the Pitt name, part of our idenity, was unforgivible. Bringing in people without ties to school and allowing them to do whatever they want, is major mistake. Maryland a founding member of the ACC, just left the conference and all their traditional rivals contrary to withes of their alumni, students, and fans. It happened because the new president and AD are not Maryland guys. They had not ties to the school’s history. The president came form a Big Ten school.

Comment by Justinian 12.26.12 @ 6:02 pm


yes I saw Zeigler was first off the bench against Bethune-Cooksie. But he wasn’t against Kennesaw Mountain and only ended up playing 12 minutes (least on the team with DJ). I was hoping they would have played him more and let him score double figures to get his confidence up BEFORE the BigEast.

And yes against Michigan, Adams has his worst game of his career, he had 0 points & 1 rebound and was pushed around so much that Dixon ONLY played him 10 minutes.

So that’s why I’m a little concerned with that as Michigan was one of the few teams we played so far with some size. Good thing Sleepy is still around, as the other guy we’re red-shirting at Center also is not physical yet either. Not that Sleepy is a Blair or Gray or even McGhee either.

So we’ll hope for the best with Adams. I think the possible problem might be, is that he practices against no one in particular that is a physical type player. We had some real trouble at times on the defensive boards because of this problem, especially against Mich in the 2nd half.

So we’ll see against UC and then G-Town early in the conf. schedule. Both teams I believe are physical and fairly big.

Comment by Emel 12.26.12 @ 6:04 pm

Exactly Justinian !

You know the Great Minds things. Ditto. :-)

Comment by Emel 12.26.12 @ 6:05 pm

I meant to say they had no ties the school, and the President came from another Big Ten school. Tradition meant nothing to them, the dollars is all that mattered.

Comment by Justinian 12.26.12 @ 6:08 pm

In one of John Steigerwald’s commentaries, he stated about the re-branding to Pittsburgh,

“No one who ever went to Pitt, or grew up within a 100 miles, ever it called anything but Pitt.”

Comment by Justinian 12.26.12 @ 6:22 pm

@emel, I don’t think your pushed around stuff is that accurate.Adams picked up 2 quick fouls and got yanked. He might not have been ready for prime time but you make it sound like he was intimidated.I didn’t see that and if he seemed “pushed around” maybe he was being careful after the fouls.You make it sound like he is a big wuss.Taylor can be effective but often isn’t.He certainly falls short of expectations and at times makes some great plays which makes his shortcomings more obvious. Calling him Sleepy is a bit harsh and too demeaning.Zeigler looked very good in the BC game you refered to and has even looked more focused at the foul line of late.I had given up on him when he got in trouble but he is looking like he can help.I think he has even shown defensive progress although he is foul prone.I think we can afford that from a back up.DJ is very “freshman”but I love what he brings to the 2 guard and look for him to be a big future contributor.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.26.12 @ 6:32 pm

@spirit, that’s alright we’re all entitled to our opinions bro. No I didn’t mean to infer that Adams was a wus, just he was pushed “off the blocks”. I believe some others noted this as well.

He did pickup some fouls but they only amounted to two (2) total. Don’t think Coach was particularly enthused about putting him back into the game. Again it was ONLY his 3rd game, but nonetheless we haven’t played many teams this year with good size and physicality underneath, so it remains to be seen how much Adams has progressed. We will get a good indicator with these games coming up against UC & G-Town in the next little bit.

I agree with you about Zeigler and we’ve been lovingly calling Dante, Sleepy for years ! Like I said I’m really glad we have him as a backup since we don’t know how Adams will do in the BE and the Marcus(?) Gilbert kid isn’t ready yet.

Durand Durand is an exciting project, as he has some shooting skills from beyond 3, which is rare at PITT for a guy over 6’6″. Only Sam Young comes to mind.

Yes the Maryland president came from the B1G, Iowa I think. Has a degree from Michigan as well. So like you said he had no ties to Maryland’s athletic or school history, much like Stevie Cornhole. And neither gave a damn about their school’s histories or traditions.
I will give credit to Cornhole for rescheduling Ped State, however I don’t know at this point, how I really feel about that. Why help them resurrect their program (after their probationary limited scholarship, no bowl thing), they did nothing for us since 2000. Yes I still dislike them extremely, but I heard a radio host get confused the other day and mentioned us instead of them regarding the Pedo-gate obscenity. So I really don’t like our good name being associated, in any manner, with theirs. You know !

Comment by Emel 12.26.12 @ 7:04 pm

Cyanide Steve was as influential as I was in scheduling 0
Pitt. With Paterno stocking the fires in Satans’ castle and Curly about to piss his pants in a criminal trial that has no precedent, PSU changed underwear overnight.
Any AD could have done that.
Likewise the move to the ACC. Our stellar university made up for deficiencies in our athletic dept. Again, Cyanide was nothing more than the caretaker.
I’ll agree with you about Trey and Dante being key. THAT is what causes me some concern. Now, Robinson may prove to be the difference maker. If so, then the sky is the limit because leaders like that come around once every 50 years. With Robinson and BKnight in our recent past, we will have exhausted our quota.
Lastly, Syracuse has NCAA champ banners hanging from the rafters…we don’t. That is a fact: not a criticism of our program.

Comment by SFPitt 12.26.12 @ 8:55 pm

While I don’t agree with everything Pederson does I do think the good out weighs the bad.

You say he removed some of Pitt’s tradition..true, however when he took over Pitt was losing 72-0, 34-0, 45-0, 55-7, 60-6…Crowds at Pitt Stadium were under 30,000 a game..with even less actually attending..there was no college atmosphere to preserve at that time. So blowing the whole thing up and starting over wasn’t terrible idea. (That said I think moving back to ACC is perfect time to bring back the old colors and script.)

As were finding out these days tradition is nice to talk about but doesn’t matter anymore in college sports…ask the Big East how their tradition is working for them. Pederson realizes that and doesn’t make decisions with that in doesn’t mean he makes all the right decisions, but I think that is a good thing in the long run.
Pederson knows how to keep the big donors happy and donating..also Dixon loves him..that alone is reason for me to have no problem that he stays AD.

As far as a refurnished Pitt Stadium..that would of been nice (it basically would of been a new stadium on same site)…but then we wouldn’t of had the Pete for the last ten years and I think that would of meant not having a BB team in top ten every year it’s been open…and as somebody who is bias towards BB I’m glad we have the Pete.

Also, I’ve been to ND stadium many times …(before and after they added 20,000 seats) and nobody would ever compare it to old Pitt stadium so not a very good argument from ya to keep Pitt stadium.

Comment by milobloom 12.26.12 @ 8:58 pm

The only thing that is constant, is change. Worry not about losing Pitt history by the fact that the stadium where so much of those glory days occurred has been replaced by Peterson Event Center. History, like our memories, will always be with us. But rather, focus on what the future has in store.

History is nothing more than what transpired yesterday. The best way to endear Heinz Field into the hearts of the current Pitt faithful is to produce a new legacy in the here and now in that venue, which will soon enough become more fond memories of Pitt history,as quickly as tomorrow matures into yesterday.

That history, as always is born anew with each new contest, as on Jan 5th, 2013. With the 1st game ever against the Rebels of Old Miss. Rout the Rebels, Hail to Pitt.

Comment by Dr. Tom 12.26.12 @ 10:03 pm

Dr. Tom, I will always miss Pitt Stadium. I liked walking past the faternity houses on game day and loved the sight lines. I realize that Pitt games are going to played at Heinz Field. If the Panthers can consistantly win, they will begin to fill the stadium. With that the game-day experience will improve. It’s all about winning. w

Comment by Justinian 12.26.12 @ 10:36 pm

milobloom said it all.

Comment by omar 12.27.12 @ 12:25 am

Great insight Dr. Tom ! Also playing simultaneous on the 5th with the Ole Miss. game is the US Army all – smerican game. Tyler Boyd is the only PA. player on the roster ! Remember when VA. Running back Derrick Green (#1 RB ) visited pitt ? He’ll be #27 – hopefully he’ll put on a Pitt hat ! I’ll check out a few plays on NBC in between. Watch out for Derrick Henry (#2) – 6’3 & 245 lb. back (Bama. recruit) – set USA career record with 12,000 yards – an incredible 3,000 more than Rushel Shell finished with !

Comment by ROCKY20 12.27.12 @ 1:31 am

Sorry, but there’s absolutey zero ambiance at Heinz.

It’s stark, on game day with 40,000 fans in attendance having all the warmth of a nineties suburban mall where half the stores have closed. Not to mention the mustard seats which thanks to HD TV make any vacant seat only too obvious to viewers at home.

Heinz might work with 60,000 screaming Steelers fans in attendance, But that’s about it.

Placing a basketball arena on the site of the Pitt Stadium was a total mistake. The Pete could have been built anywhere.

And what a slap in the face when Pitt elexts to play games at the new Pen Arena. Brilliant.

The smart and right solution would have been to tear down the old Pitt Stadium, leaving the Roman facade… and erecting behind it a new Pitt Stadium minus the track.

Prediction… some day… obviously way down the road… Pitt will break ground for a new Pitt stadium. Where, I have no idea.

Until then we have to stomach Heinz where students have to stand in line for school buses to take them to and from the game.

What a poorly thought out plan. And Pederson must always be remembered for being the “genius” who hatched it.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.27.12 @ 5:05 am

Depth is great but who will be the go to guy in crunch time? That’s what has separated Pitt from the elite in the past.

Comment by Pittastic 12.27.12 @ 8:13 am

Good points milobloom.

Was there any indication that there was the money to build a new Pitt Stadium and the Pete? I don’t think so. Say Pitt Stadium is redone first. We’d probably still be hearing about how a new basketball arena is coming soon and I’m pretty sure Jamie Dixon is gone at the first chance and then who knows what happens with the basketball program. And then maybe the ACC doesn’t pick Pitt because of the state of basketball, which means we’d be stuck in the Big East with a new football stadium.

Everyone loves to say how horrible Heinz field is, but I think people underestimate its impact on recruiting. Players want to play in the NFL and being able to play where the Pittsburgh Steelers play has to have some appeal. How much appeal does a half-empty old Pitt stadium have to a high schooler? None.

Comment by Wardapalooza 12.27.12 @ 8:25 am

To all the guys bitching about Stevie P – I agree with you. Note, however, he can’t take a piss without the approval from Cochran and Nordenberg. Just a reminder that for all the good Nordenberg has done, he also should shoulder some blame/criticism. HTP.

Beat the Bearcats! Beat Ole Miss!

Comment by pittbluegold 12.27.12 @ 8:41 am

Just read Woodall’s remarks about WVU BB games in Morgantown. My friends and I attended a game there in the old wooden WVU arena where timber beams blocked part of the BB floor. We escaped with our lives even though there were four of us. Pitt lost because of the WVU referees.

Comment by frank MD 12.27.12 @ 9:35 am

the georgetown game is almost like playing at a neutral site. there are plenty of seats available to the public and local pitt alumni and fans grab them up. like our chances.

keep calm

hail to pitt

Comment by pittkeith 12.27.12 @ 9:39 am

Pitt will be VERY challenged to find the money AND the land to build an on campus stadium. The likelihood of both of those things coming together in our lifetime is close to nil. By then, football may not even be a popular sport.

I won’t pile on Stevie since others in the administration as just as culpable. I’m just hoping Pitt script makes a comeback.

Comment by TX Panther 12.27.12 @ 9:44 am

@emel – while I agree with some of your comments, I believe that, until the 50s, Pitt football uniforms had numbers only on the front and back of the jersey. In fact, Pitt was the first to introduce numbers on the uniforms in 1908. As for the helmets, they were unadorned for many years, then had only numbers. The script Pitt was added to the helmet in 1973 under Johnny Majors.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 9:46 am

Pitt stadium was a hole and an embarrassment and with the track you were two miles from the field. It added nothing to game day except bars close by. Heinz field is much better.

Comment by notrocketscience 12.27.12 @ 9:47 am

@emel – and, while I am a huge proponent of historic preservation both professionally and personally, not all old buildings or old stadia are capable of such treatment. Pitt Stadium, though beloved, was not a candidate for resurrection. Recruits (a huge focus of this blog) want great facilities. The Pete (along with winning) attracts great basketball recruits. The Southside facility has the potential to attract great football recruits. I call that a win/win.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 9:50 am

Pittbluegold, Yes, Nordy has kept Steve Pederson, so he obviously has a certain degree of confidence in him. I’m sure that that has diminished somewhat after the Heywood and Graham hires. People on this blog seem to look at the Peterson Events Center-Pitt Stadium discussion, as an “either or” decision. I’m not convinced that the Peterson Evnets Center couldn’t have been built above the stadium. I think the error in judgement by AD Steve Peterson was that the poor attendance at Pitt football games was because of Pitt Stadium. If you look at the empty seats at recent games at Heinz Field, you realize it makes no difference. The only thing that really affects attendence is putting a winning product on the field.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 9:52 am

@Justinian – there is some historic precedent for that idea. Until Fitzgerald Field House opened in 1951, Pitt basketball games were played on a court under Pitt Stadium. Fans sat on bleachers.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 10:00 am

On another note, I don’t mind going to games at Heinz Field. For better or worse, it IS our home field now. What I want to see is contunued improvement in the footbll program. If Paul Chryst continues to recruit well and the football play contunues to improve more people will want to attend Pitt home games. I think the impovements in the schedule, in moving to the ACC, will also add to more interest among the fans. In Wannstedt’s first game at Pitt, against Notre Dame Heinz Field was packed. Also I remember a terific atmosphere in the Walt Harris era, when Virginia Tech came to Heinz Field.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 10:04 am

Pitt Dad, I meant on the hill ABOVE, where Peterson Events Center currntly stands. You see I would liked to, have my cake and eat it too.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 10:07 am

@Justinian – ah, well Pitt Stadium still would not have been a candidate for the kind of expansion/renovation done at other stadiums. In fact, one can probably date the demise of Pitt Stadium to the 50s when the University decided on a medical center complex and built Scaife Hall. Again, Pitt Med School is world class. I wouldn’t trade that for a renovated Pitt Stadium either.

That being said, I still mourn the 1974 renovation of Yankee Stadium. Once they committed that travesty, I didn’t mind that they tore the whole thing down.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 10:13 am

I was at the BB game. Compared to Adams, Sleepy looks downright enthusiastic! Adams is young, but I don’t see the fire.

Comment by PittStadiumShuffle 12.27.12 @ 11:02 am

Speaking of history preservation, bringing back the Pitt Script on the uniforms WOULD be a great idea at just the right time (when changing conferences). Will it happen? I have no idea. But if the concept is to sell more merchandise, moving things back to all things Pitt Sript would mean a big boost in sales to get geared up in the Script for Pitt. The colors and style could be modernized a bit, just for flare.

Now talking colors, if the powers to be are smart enough, they not only bring back the Script but they make sure that the yellow color utilized on the uniforms is the exact chroma and hue of the yellow seats at Heinz Field.

Then for every nationally televised contest at Heinz Field for the forseeable future, the Pitt Athletic Dept sponsers “Yellow Out” game days, giving out T-shirts with the same bright yellow color as the seats to all in attendence. TV viewers will be exclaiming,”Whoa, look at that Yellow Out”! even if there are 10,000 empty seats! That my friends is what they call making lemonaid out of lemons. LOL!

Piss on Miss, Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Dr. Tom 12.27.12 @ 11:24 am

Well put ..Dr Tom.. win and we’ll have a new tradition…see our BB team the last ten years.

Justinian, if Pitt Stadium was rebuilt, I agree at at some point a basketball arena would of been buildt but my guess is we would still be waiting if they went that route. Look how long it took to get a soccer, baseball and softball field built…the soccer teams spent years playing home games in Hamarville…and then the recession if they went that route we would probably be lucky to have blueprints by now. I 100% agree with your last line though…win and Heinz field wil be’s really that simple.. remember how high the atte6ndance was at the Cinn game when it was for the Big East championship..63,000.

Also, for those who know their Pitt History they’ll also know Pederson wasn’t the first guy at Pitt to change colors to try to start the 40’s they swithed to Red and White (Stanford’s colors)…the new coach had come from Stanford and thought red shirts made the players look bigger.. it didn’t work then either though….Pitt still stunk all thru the 0’s.

Comment by milo bloom 12.27.12 @ 11:34 am

Dr “well put” commwnt was on your ealier post but can say the same on your last post as well…perfect time to bring back old script and make more money on merchandise…I like the yellow Out idea with the seats…though it would be cool to see everyone in the old Pitt Blue.

Comment by milo bloom 12.27.12 @ 11:38 am

Heinz Field is amazing. Atmosphere is created by fans, not the building. Pittsburgh fans are all frontrunners, like every other pro-sports town. It’s hard to get pro sports fans excited when the nature of college football means Pitt is playing a schedule full of meaningless games. It’s basically a giant exhibition season for all but a handful of teams every year.

Comment by Chris 12.27.12 @ 11:39 am

Milo, Don’t get me wrong, I love the Pete, it’s more than just an upgrade over the old Fitzgerald Field house. I think the Pete was an important part of Pitt’s rise in basketball prominance.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 11:44 am

@ milo bloom, I agree, the Cincy game had an awesome vibe. It was one of the most exciting games that I ever attended over my 40 year history of following the Panthers. Which of course made it that much more horrible to let it get away from us in the last minute of play. Win and all else will take care of itself.

Comment by Dr. Tom 12.27.12 @ 11:53 am

I love the Pete. It’s an amazing facility. I truly enjoy games at Heinz Field – the pregame, the Pitt Band “March to Victory” on General Robinson Street, the Crew performing after the game – and the facility itself is inspiring. When we win, we will get the crowds. Extending the T to Oakland would help a great deal as well.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 11:58 am

Pitt stadium was a dump. Many of you must have bad memories. Without the Pete & Heinz Field, we are probably still stuck in the Big Least, and that would really suck. In today’s college facilities race, we could not recruit with Pitt Stadium. Pitt football would be done.

Comment by rayhpgh 12.27.12 @ 12:05 pm

SFPitt teased me a few posts ago (the MAC one) about ideas for a new stadium (especially after the article about locations. Well between the tease and needing some R & R time, I threw this together. It is far from complete, would like to add some drawings, etc. and allow comments, etc., but just for fun……

link to

Comment by CompLit 12.27.12 @ 12:21 pm

What can Pitt do to make game day at Heinz more college like then? The big allure of on campus stadium from my perspective as an alumnus is that you get to walk around campus on game day and buy from the campus vendors and eat or drink at your old hang out spots.

Comment by TX Panther 12.27.12 @ 12:22 pm

I can say that I am am extremely pleased with just about everything Stevie did in his initial stint here.

I can say that I am extremely displeased with just about everything Stevie did in his second stint here.

Comment by wbb 12.27.12 @ 12:26 pm

Impressive CompLit!

Comment by TX Panther 12.27.12 @ 12:29 pm

@TX Panther – encourage the extension of the T to Oakland. That way you can be on campus before and after the game. It will provide benefits to the University and the region far beyond those derived from an on campus stadium.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 12:38 pm

Basketball is Basketball…. I’d take a consistent winning Football Team 100 xs over Basketball. I’d also rather have a campus stadium WAY more than a basketball arena. It’s very easy to get to the Consol Energy Center. Could have Torn Down the old Stadium and built a new one where it stood…Go more vertical than outward. Could have been awesome. While under construction. 2 years, we could have played the games at Heinz. Hell they even could have built a domed stadium and played both basketball and Football. Peterson is a moron.

Comment by Upittbaseball 12.27.12 @ 12:42 pm

The T to Oakland would be nice but the chances of that happening in next 20 years is below zero.

Comment by milobloom 12.27.12 @ 1:04 pm

What will happen first – the T to Oakland or a new on campus stadium? I have to admit that both would be nice.

Comment by TX Panther 12.27.12 @ 1:07 pm

If UPMC wants it, the T to Oakland will come first. On the other hand, if Medical Centers around the country start a football league, count on an on-campus stadium.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 1:09 pm

Thanks for accepting the challenge.
OK, attach a copyright notice on your work to preserve your IP.
Good work and thank you. To have legs, the project would have to enhance Phipps and Frick Fine Arts and probably Panther Hollow. The land aquistion makes sense.
Now, when you sit down with your CAD device, consider the following:
Frick Fine Arts can be used as an entrance and splendid decoration for that end of the stadium.
Katz can also have a feature in the ingress and egress opportunities.
As it exists now, Panther Hollow is visited by precious few humans. Can you put your urban planning skills to work to make this area more human friendly the other 358 days of the year?
Last comment.
Majors Field. That is my call for the name.

Comment by sfpitt 12.27.12 @ 1:09 pm

We since we all have opinions…………..I would name a new stadium for Jock Southerland or recognize both he and Pop Warner. Southerland-Warner Stadium.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 1:25 pm

I like the name Majors Field. I also would like to see statues or named sections after Pitt legends like Ditka, Dorsett, Marino, etc. A legend or two representing each decade maybe. Need to vett each potential candidate so you don’t have a Paturdo in your pants.

Just don’t put a track around the field. Since student housing is always an issue, couldn’t you attach dorms or grad school apartments to the stadium building in an architecturally pleasing way? That way, the property is used 24-7/365.

Comment by TX Panther 12.27.12 @ 1:28 pm

Sutherland already has a residence hall. How about Majors Field at Warner Stadium? Although I suspect that a project of this scope will require a major donor or donors if it is to be more than a pipe dream and said donors will want to see their names on the building. Either that or a naming rights deal will control what the place is called.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 1:36 pm

“As it exists now, Panther Hollow is visited by precious few humans.” True but the people live there are a unique bunch and it would be front page headlines if they were kicked out without a say.
It’s a very traditional Italian’s been a few years but I remember being down there and the old folks still all spoke Italian to each other.

CompLit..I give you credit on the will never happen of course… but interesting concept.. how big is your stadium (attensdance).

After the outcry about the cost of the T to North Shore nobody is going to propose any additions to the T in at least a decade…plus if you live in Pgh Area you know the Port Authority is in trouble every year with money and the future does not look like it will be any better.

Comment by milobloom 12.27.12 @ 1:43 pm

Jock Sutherland won 5 National Championships that the university recognizes. There is arguement that it is actually it’s 7 national championships. Pop Warner before him won 3 national championships and Johnny Majors won one in 1976. The Jock Sutherland era the most successfull period of Pitt football ever. The Majors-Sherrill era was by far the most successful period in the modern era. But I believe Jackie Sherrill was more successful than Johnny Majors with his 3 consecutive 11-1 seasons.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 1:46 pm

Hilarious Dr. Tom.

How about also throwing in a free jar of Heinz mustard?

Better yet, make it a squeeze bottle so students can douse each other every time Pitt scores.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.27.12 @ 1:50 pm

@sfpitt See you have to be careful what you say to people on the Blather !

Phipps on another hill, don’t even want to go there.

Don’t think Fine Arts and Athletics ever play well together when it comes to $$, etc. Just trying to keep everyone as happy as they could be, considering sports invading their territory.

Panther Hollow is just a hole with a railroad and road to the Boiler Plant for CMU. Certain “The Panther Hollow Inn” would be a great enterprise at the bottom of South Bouquet.

PS. Pitt Engineer by education, but not by trade. Don’t have access to the fancy tools, but I still can think like one ! (Ha Ha).

Comment by CompLit 12.27.12 @ 1:52 pm

@CompLit – how about working your magic on the area across from Magee Women’s Hospital where Boulevard of the Allies meets Bates?

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 1:59 pm

@Pitt Dad..

The proper mix of plastic explosives and large bulldozers! (maybe some trucks to carry away the residual (or is that a legal term?)

Comment by CompLit 12.27.12 @ 2:14 pm

I was thinking more of your design talents but tht would work too.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 2:23 pm

@ milobloom:

Roughly about 42,000 give or take some rows in the stadium.

Comment by CompLit 12.27.12 @ 2:25 pm

A new stadium on campus and/or a subway to Oakland are not likely before I shuffle off this mortal coil. (in my late 50’s)

So why not think creatively in the near term? Maybe some bright engineering and/or urban planning types at my dear alma mater could work with the city/county/state and look into something like a Bus Rapid Transit system: link to

These systems use features such as prioritized traffic signals triggered by the buses themselves.

Imagine if some such thing could be set up, to efficiently and reliably get students to Heinz almost non-stop. It potentially could also provide another non-game-day solution to the old problem of public transit to Oakland beyond lumbering buses on surface streets.

Comment by BATR 12.27.12 @ 2:59 pm

@BATR – surface light rail integrated with the T would also do the trick. link to

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 3:03 pm

Again, UPMC is the key to better rapid transit serving Oakland.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 3:04 pm

@ Pitt Dad..

First look (and I traveled it a lot (lived in Penn Hills and took the Parkway a lot (8 years).), would be to extend Craft Avenue with a loop-back down to Bates St. to give a second route to the Parkway.

Comment by CompLit 12.27.12 @ 3:06 pm

@CompLit – and could you put a stadium on that site?

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 3:37 pm

WBB Field at Mutually Beneficial Arrangements Stadium

Comment by wbb 12.27.12 @ 3:54 pm

UPMC could care less about better rapid transit to Oakland…they cover so much area in the region that they wouldn’t care just about access to one area. Plus even if they did care, I doubt they would jump in that mess anytime soon because of how much money it took for the connection to the North Shore and the beating everyone who was involved took because of the price.

42,000 would be a nice quaint size, but hardly a stadium for a serious college football team that I think were hoping Pitt can become. No doubt it would be sold out — Pitt has 40,000 seats sold even in the worst years at Heinz Field (that includes students and vistors). But remember they sold 63,000 for a Cinn (not WVU or ND) game when they were winning…that is what to shoot for..the fan base is there so it is possible…they just need to win.

Comment by milobloom 12.27.12 @ 3:58 pm

A state rep wants all of the NCAA fine being paid by UPS ($60M) to stay in state. So, Pitt should get all of it as a down payment to this field and we can call it Sandusky Stadium

Comment by wbb 12.27.12 @ 4:00 pm

Looking forward to Cinn vs NM game tonight..If Cinn wins then they’ll stay in top ten in polls…Pitt has never lost to a top ten at the Pete. 12-0

Comment by milobloom 12.27.12 @ 4:13 pm

@Pitt Dad.. Yeah, probably, and it could be used for birthing babies in the off-season!

Comment by CompLit 12.27.12 @ 4:52 pm

Many don’t know this, but, there are actually TWO different Heinz Fields.

One is a deserted, ghost town, with about 30K die hard Pitt supporters, and 30K empty yellow seats.

The other one is filled to 60-65K fans screaming and rocking and rolling, and can pass as a college football atmosphere. i.e. anytime we play PSU, WVU, or ND. Or, when there is a meaningful game, i.e. Cincinnati a few years ago.

50-55K is even passable, i.e. Nebraska and Texas A&M a few years back.

Forget about preaching to the choir, the 20-30K die hards (people on here) will be there.

When do the other 30K come out??

Consistent winning, being in the top 20, and an upgraded schedule.

We have the upgraded schedule coming, next years schedule is fantastic.

Gotta win!! Gotta win big against scrub teams, handily against mediocre teams, and win a few you’re not supposed too.

We’re not Michigan, Tennessee or LSU, we don’t have a huge alumni population.

1/2 of our fans come from Pittsburgher’s wanting to support the team.

They will support, if Pitt is winning.

I also can’t be mad at them for it either.

If they aren’t alumni, what ties do they have to the school??? None, they live here. If we use that logic, then they should be going to Robert Morris, Duquesne, Westminster, Slippery Rock, Cal and all the other W.Pa. games too.

Might not sell out every game, but go 11-1, 10-2 a few years in a row, people will be there.

Now, to do that………………..

Comment by Dan 12.27.12 @ 4:55 pm

By the way, Steve Pederson was quoted many times when we were moving to Heinz Field, that he will “fill that stadium up”.

Don’t give me all the excuses.

He said it. Not me. Not others on here.

He said he’d fill it up.

Goin’ on about 11 or 12 seasons now, aren’t we??

Comment by Dan 12.27.12 @ 4:58 pm

I digressed about Steve.

Actually optimistic with Coach Chryst, the recruiting and the new ACC schedule, maybe we can start getting some winning going and getting 45-55K asses in the seats. Would be nice.

Comment by Dan 12.27.12 @ 5:02 pm

This stadium discussion is what makes this blog great. This thread turned into a very enjoyable read.

WBB – you get my vote for stadium name! 😉

Comment by Outlaw 12.27.12 @ 5:02 pm

Dunno. I think I’d go for WBB Field in MBA Park. More subtle.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 5:20 pm

I’m ok with naming the new stadium after anyone who donates a 100 million towards building it.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 5:27 pm

How about Panther Stadium? I’d be ok with leaving off the 94 part.

Comment by panther94 12.27.12 @ 5:44 pm

If the support is there for a stadium build, the plans must be drawn up soon since it will take years to raise the funds and buy the land. I figure that this is a 15 to 20 year process. Now support won’t be there unless the wealthy boosters want it and Stevie is no longer AD. A new AD and a few influential boosters could get this going. Heinz is still a good selling point and decent enough venue for now. But I think it just can’t be a stand alone stadium. There must be plans for commercial, residential, including dorms, and athletic space and purpose. Naming rights would help cover costs so it probably would be called some corporate named stadium. I love the Cathedral as our TD Jesus. I also figure you could always move the big games to the pro stadium…just like basketball does with Consol or the old Civic Arena in my day. Build a new stadium with a combo of bleachers in end zones and seats with a max capacity of 45k…2 level stadium. And most importantly, no yellow seats. No piss troughs either. Artificial surface as well. The synthetics 20 years from now will probably be better than real grass anyway. And not to make light of age, but those old folks in Panther Hollow will be dead by stadium construction.

Comment by TX Panther 12.27.12 @ 6:03 pm


That was a very nice piece of preliminary work John.
When you can see something on a piece of paper,(in this case on the computer) it comes to life.
That is a very doable project since most of the land being used is vacant/park/shoddy housing.

I love the idea of making the Cathedral our Touchdown Jesus. Albeit having the tallest campus building in the United States is a bit more dramatic, all apologies to TD Jesus.

You could then do all sorts of lighting on the CoL and possibly some other extraordinary ideas will develop given those sightlines to the CoL with a Horseshoe type stadium.

Imagine how vibrant Oakland would be on game days, both before and after the game. It would actually be a great environment with the way the U has cleaned up the campus since my days. And this would only make things better for both Pitt and all the businesses in Oakland.

Bring recruits into an environment like that ‘on campus’ in an urban setting and it could be something really special. And I imagine when Pitt football was King in Pittsburgh, that’s the way it was in Oakland on gameday Saturdays.


Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 6:04 pm

TX Panther, Geeez………..Do you think we could actually get regular urinals?

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 6:11 pm


Hey we have to have at least one piss trough….
for nostalgia’s sake. lol

Sherrill-Majors Field at Sutherland Stadium

(this ties in 3 of the most successful eras of Pitt Football) apologies to Pop Warner, 4 names were a bit much.

Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 6:13 pm

I like that horse shoe open end design. CompLit, please also draw up a design for underground tunnels to the stadium and dorm attachments. A transit stop at the stadium as well to alleviate parking and traffic concerns. My new stadium also sells beer…the good stuff. I agree with Emel. If you can dream it, it can be done. But first things first, bring me back Pitt script. I’m also confident that Santa will bring me a new AD next year.

Comment by TX Panther 12.27.12 @ 6:14 pm

Ok. One piss trough allowed.

Comment by TX Panther 12.27.12 @ 6:15 pm

The plaza leading up to the Main Entrance could be called:

Pop Warner Plaza

Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 6:22 pm

Dealbreaker — you can use my name only if you have the troughs

Comment by wbb 12.27.12 @ 6:22 pm

The Belk Bowl is kicking off in Charlotte.

UC (9-3) vs Duke (6-6)
See had we taken care of business and beaten YSU, Cuse & Uconn, we too could have been playing tonight.

Exciting eh :-)

P.S. we actually got the better matchup albeit in a much lesser venue & city

Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 6:37 pm

Duke is embarrassing Cincy – 16-3 end of 1st qtr

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 7:24 pm

I threw up some more stuff under features. Go look and laugh at me if you like. Thanks everyone for the comments. Now we need some deep pockets to run with an idea like this. (I’m getting old and slow!) and my pockets have holes in them.

Comment by CompLit 12.27.12 @ 7:31 pm

And, just as I say that, Cincy comes back.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.27.12 @ 8:11 pm

CompLit, you have an inspiring idea. I love it.
Being off campus is not only difficult for the students but guess what the alumni and friends never get on campus with us playing in the rent-a-field. That has to be costing Pitt tens of millions of dollars in contributions.

Comment by Houston Panther 12.27.12 @ 8:28 pm

speaking of the T extension to Oakland, this has been a sore point for me for along time. Consider extending the T from PNC bank station to Monroeville will include access to the following:

– 6 hospitals
– 4 colleges
– several communities
– an alternative to the most congested road in Western PA
– large shopping and employment areas on both ends

Stadium or not, it makes way too much sense … which, of course, why it wiould never come to fruition

Comment by wbb 12.27.12 @ 8:37 pm

How about piss troughs with etchings of Stevie’s and Poopypants’ faces as targets?

Comment by Houston Panther 12.27.12 @ 8:52 pm

Watching Cincy – Lobo’s….I’m getting more confident that Pitt will beat these guys Monday.

Comment by Jackagain 12.27.12 @ 9:36 pm

Houston Panther, That would certainly make the piss toughs a lot more popular. I think Three Rivers was only stadium to have actual urinals. I guess the Rooneys and the Stadium Authority didn’t have enough money left over after puttin in Heinz Field’s luxury boxes.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 9:37 pm

Ok. So the site collection committee has made its recommendations and wbb has donated 100 million to get his name in plastic (for 200, we will put it in bronze).
The old Italian folks have been bought out and new condos rise on the western side of the stadium.
I want the following. Open vending and not some Aramark muzac menu: students get seats at 35 and in. Joe distillo is banned from all games. The field is green and script Pitt adorns midfield. Endzones read Panthers. I want sculpted panthers resting above the stadium as worthy guards to the castle. Leather helmets, high top spikes, players wearing neck guards, cheerleaders with megaphones, popcorn for $1. Programs with cool throwback artwork, luxury boxes high in the endzones, open trough urinals that devour iPhones dropped inside by fools, beer sold but limited, Pitt fans wearing Pitt gear. Real kids as ball boys. We play our band during time outs and at crucial spots, not the same old blaring music we always hear, Joe distillo is banned 4-ever. Flags of our conference and seasonal foes flying around the stadium.
That should do it for now.

Comment by SFPitt 12.27.12 @ 9:42 pm

Not impressed with Cincy hoops team. Feels like a winnable game.

Comment by Scott 78 12.27.12 @ 9:47 pm

wbb, The proposed Maglev line was supposed to run from Monroeville to the airport linking Oakland to downtown Pittsburgh along the way. It went by the wayside when the Iraq war started. The other proposal was for a Baltimore to Washington link. It was supposed to be a proto type and a partial link of an eventual Washington to Chicago line. Even a light rail system would have been terrific.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 9:48 pm

Allow a piss trough, by get some corporate sponsorship with naming rights.

Comment by Lou 12.27.12 @ 9:55 pm

the Maglev was so fast that starting from Monroeville, you couldn’t have stopped it in time to stop in Oakland

Comment by wbb 12.27.12 @ 9:57 pm

I nominate SF as project manager!

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 10:00 pm

wbb, We all appreciate your $100 million dollar donation.

Comment by Justinian 12.27.12 @ 10:03 pm

Duke tied with Cincy 34-34. Duke has ball first and goal from the 7 with less than 2 minutes left. Duke loses 48-34.

Duke is the Pitt of the ACC.

Comment by Dan35 12.27.12 @ 10:18 pm

UC Bearcats did the conf. proud tonight in the BigEast’s last good configuration, the year being 2012.

Coming back from 16-0 down and looked for dead in the first quarter. Duke was at the UC 5 yard, game tied 34-34 with 1:40 left, all they needed was a chipshot FG to win, Cincy calls a timeout. And whatever the heck was said, lol
in that timeout. Cincy recovers a fumble on the very next play and then a couple plays later throws a 80 yard TD pass to take the lead 41-34.

And then for icing on the cake, intercepts a Duke pass and returns it 55 yds for another TD to make it 48 -34 final. Incredible turn of events in the last minute & a half. UC wins despite 38 1rst downs by Duke and 560 yds offense.

Like to see the BigEast go undefeated in the Bowl Season this year. Off to a good start.

Next up Buttgers/Va Tech. Go BigEast, let’s go out with a bang !!!!!

Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 10:29 pm

We’re not that bad Dan35. Duke hasn’t won a Bowl game since 1951 nor played in many.

Shame on you.

Are you a hoopie, nitwit or both ? lol

Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 10:31 pm

Emel, I think Dan may have been going for the whole ‘Things were looking good… oh… what is this… oh… HOLY HELL WE LOST AGAIN HOW.’

Comment by Benzene 12.27.12 @ 10:39 pm

UNless of course you meant our fabulous hoops program.

In that case yes, we are the Duke of the BigEast, for now.

We’re gonna clobber the Bearcats come next Monday!

Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 10:41 pm

2011 Bball recruiting class dwindling down… Gilbert to transfer.

link to

Comment by Chris 12.27.12 @ 10:49 pm

Well I know Dan & Dan72…..Dan35 not so much

So therefore the inquiry.

You know we’ve been known to get trolls on here !

Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 10:56 pm


That’s good, opens up another recruiting spot.

And he was tooooooo much of a project, imo.

Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 10:58 pm

Bearcats go down at home to New Mexico.

Comment by Mailman 12.27.12 @ 11:04 pm

Meanwhile in more serious matters.

In the Annual Alphabet Game


Comment by Emel 12.27.12 @ 11:06 pm

Do you guys think Gilbert’s transfer was pushed by Dixon?

Comment by panther94 12.27.12 @ 11:06 pm

I hope Gilbert’s xfer is a sign that Adams will be @ Pitt next year.

Comment by xfmrman 12.27.12 @ 11:09 pm

What about depth? Is Nwonkwo going to be good enough? I’m concerned.

Comment by panther94 12.27.12 @ 11:29 pm

A little history on stadiums. The original design for PNC Park called for individual urinals, each with a tv screen of the game action. That is why it is called PNC Park.

Comment by OPFIM 12.27.12 @ 11:55 pm

Wow, that is funny opfim.

Comment by panther94 12.27.12 @ 11:57 pm

lmao some of yous guys are pretty funny.

strange but funny.

P.S. what is the fixation with urinals and piss troughs

Anyone ever been to an old drive old movie theatre?

Guess what was in the bathroom. haha

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 2:12 am

Food for thought.

How about next year, if you want to see how good your bench is. Against one of these Rent-a-Win

Why not play the whole game (or most of it) with your bench. Then you could not only get a better gauge on what you have on the bench. You’ve gotten them a lot better prepared for Conference Play.

No cudos are necessary. :-)

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 3:03 am

Reed and Chas,

Just took the time to look into the concept for a new Pitt Stadium as noted above by CompLit.

Not your usual post. Rather exceptional. A real eye opener.

Would like you guys to consider doing a thread dedicated to the design and concept of a new Pitt Stadium as proposed.

Given the name Panther Lair, maybe this has already been hashed over at

Even so, it seems to be worthy of the attention.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.28.12 @ 3:32 am


I am a pitt civil engineering grad 03! I have access those fancy tools u referenced. I can enhance your sketch a bit if you like with better Imagery and contours than what appears to be a usgs map.

Comment by KRF 12.28.12 @ 6:09 am

Wouldn’t it be a hell of a lot easier if they just bought up the awful golf course in schenely park. More of a walk but no worse than what psu students to beaver stad and could have more parking.

Comment by KRF 12.28.12 @ 6:45 am

looks like Jamie’s recuiting isn’t finished for the year. According to, here is the only center Pitt is recruiting that has yet to commit:

NR Kameron Rooks
(Mission Hills HS)
San Marcos, CA 7-0/270 Med No Arizona, Arizona State, California, Nevada, Oregon State, Pittsburgh, Saint Mary’s (CA), UC Irvine, Washington

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 7:34 am

I’m pretty sure that Gilbert’s transfer wasn’t pushed by Jamie since he will have only one center IF Adams stays. Gilbert said that he wanted to pay with his brother at Fairfield

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 7:38 am

I accept the project manager position offered by Justinian. KRF and CompLit are the design team—no value engineering here fellas, the sky is the limit.
Once KRF cranks out some CAD drawings and we get a true rendition, then we will begin to secure funds. The 100 mil from wbb is a good start.
Project estimate is 450 million.

Comment by SFPitt 12.28.12 @ 7:51 am

I blame Chas … as soon as he wrotes a column about Pitt’s depth, next year’s backup center transfers and we aren’t even sure that next year’s starting center is staying

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 7:58 am

OK … everyone wishing to donate to the WBB project, please use the Pay Pal to be forwarded to Chas who will invest it wisely

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 8:01 am

Yes Emel- it was a joke.

Last night Duke did their best Pitt impression. I was reminded of the pain of 1st and 10 from the Syracuse 15 down by 1 point and losing. And the ND game this year. And the Iowa game last year. And the Pitt Cincy Big East Championship… And too many others to recount.

Duke had the ball first and goal from the seven in a tied game with less than two minutes to play and lost by 14. Unreal.

Comment by Dan35 12.28.12 @ 8:10 am

Pitt will need a new AD to raise those funds or maybe Ditka could be nominated to lead the campaign drive. People would open up their wallets if Iron Mike asked.

I do like the proposed location and open end concept. I like around 45k for seating. Mass transit connecting to the stadium. A combo of bleachers and seats. No track around the field. Piss troughs with the State Penn logo. Attached student housing on west side. Limestone exterior to match Cathedral. Big ass panther statues guarding the main entrance to the house. Sutherland Plaza but some corporate named Field. Pop Warner Pitt Hall of Fame. Johnny Majors locker room. Pitt script at the 50. No yellow seats. Need to present the concept to big boosters and to city council. Leave Stevie and Nordy out of it since they wouldn’t support it anyway and won’t be around shortly. Start raising money after support is garnered and start acquiring the land piece by piece. Heinz will be a dump in 20 years and this project will take 20 to complete. 450 mil sounds about right to do it right and not be cheap. I figure half of that needs to come from donations while the remaining can be financed with bonds. Take advantage of these cheap rates.

I look forward to more renderings of the design and stadium specifics or selling points.

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 8:17 am

Staying within the footprint of the old Pitt Stadium, seating from 40 – 60 would not be a problem as a result of there being no track around the field.

The key feature playing into fan ambiance is the lack of an upper deck with the private boxes at the top.

This is where they screwed up with Heinz Field placing two rows of luxury boxes above the field seating with an upper deck above. Necessitates putting more and more seats not only higher up but father back from the field.

Lambeau Field, where it is so intimate you feel like you’re watching a high school game and not the NFL… added two rows of luxury boxes above the original stadium as part of its modernization plan.

Seems to be a reasonable and more sensible tradeoff given the overall payoff to the majority of fans attending a game.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.28.12 @ 8:36 am

@KRF.. Game on.. do your stuff.. My email is at the comments section of the little thingy I put together. I’ll throw up (post) whatever you come up with (with all the accolades and cudos attached). THIS COULD BE FUN !

Comment by CompLit 12.28.12 @ 8:53 am

PittofDreams, I wholeheartedly endorse the Lambeau arrangement … a bowl stadium with luxury and press boxes affixed above

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 8:57 am

Hey, if anyone is on campus and has a camera, look at where the 50 yd. line is projected and take a shot back towards the Cathedral, so we can get a better concept of line of site, otherwise I’ll have to drive down and do it. (But not until the snow melts!) PS. I love the idea of two sculpted panthers cradling the entrance from above.

Comment by CompLit 12.28.12 @ 9:04 am

Thinking Gilbert loss isn’t a loss. UC frontcourt sure didn’t look like they are ready for us last night so I hope that is the game they bring to the Pete.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.28.12 @ 9:13 am

After the lights were put in at Pitt Stadium, I remember that there was some discussion of taking out the track and contunuing the seating down to the field as in Notre Dame’s stadium.

The one thing I dislike the most about Heinz Field is distance in the upper deck from the playing field. At Pitt Stadium even from the upper rows you were much closer to action that at Heinz Field. In the Sherrill era, when the band or the golden girls came out, you could see them. When there was a halftime presentation, you could see it without having to look at the screen of the jumbo-tron. If you have to sit in the corners or high on the upper deck, you may as well stay home and watch it on TV.

Comment by Justinian 12.28.12 @ 9:18 am

Here is an projection of the new WBB edifice taken from the Cathedral (less the steel mills in the background

link to

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 9:24 am

About Gilbert, I think he just wants to play. With Adams starting as a freshman, he doesn’t see much opportunity here at Pitt. From a depth standpoint it could a problem next year, unless Jamie Dixon has someone coming in. I imagine there is someone in the wings that we may not yet know about.

Comment by Justinian 12.28.12 @ 9:24 am

Hope this doesn’t turn into Zanna gets stuck playing center his senior year.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.28.12 @ 9:38 am

Palm’s new Bracketology has us as an #8 seed. Wit the talent on this team, I see us as no worse than a #4 or #5 seed. I know, lots of games to play yet… HTP

Comment by pittbluegold 12.28.12 @ 9:51 am

When do the threads show up to begin the discussion about our bowl game as well as our first BB game in the BE against Cincy?????

Comment by Dr. Tom 12.28.12 @ 9:52 am

nice pic wbb.

Yes – ‘Lambeau like’ with luxury boxes and suites at the top. If big donors and corporate types don’t like being up so high and away from the field, TOUGH!

But open ended for that great Cathedral view. Take that TD Jesus.

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 9:53 am

WBB, GREAT PICTURE! You can see the old J&L Pittsburgh Works on the South Side in the background and the blast furnaces to the left.

Comment by Justinian 12.28.12 @ 9:53 am

C – M Gilbert
F – K Birch
F – JJ Richardson
G – C Epps
G – J Johnson

a little weak at point guard but otherwise a decent mid major taht woud win the rebounding battle in most games

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 9:54 am

That picture is from ’55 or ’56 Pitt – ND game, Pitt won 26-13. I assume it was taken from atop VA hospital

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 9:55 am

Very Cool Picture.

TX Panther…so if you tell the donors ‘TOUGH’ how do you expect your stadium to get built? Those are the ones you have to convince to build it because it will be their dollars.

Comment by milobloom 12.28.12 @ 10:02 am

picture is from 11/19/1956 Pitt went 7-3-1 that year and to the Gator Bowl. 1955 they were 7-4 and to the Sugar of the few good years in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s.

Comment by milobloom 12.28.12 @ 10:05 am

Tell them the tradeoff for being further away is:
1. larger and more luxureous boxes
2. your names or company names adorning the suites
3. reduction in your cost to obtain the box license
4. allowing fans a better and more intimate game day experience by being closer to the field and allowing better acoustics (noise)…aka home field advantage

easy sell.

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 10:07 am

TX Panther, Actually the best seats at old Pitt Stadium were up high between the 40 yard lines. The view of the game from the press box was pretty good. Now the press box itself was nothing to speak of. My old season tickets were in section 36 up high and they were terrific for seeing the game. In the upper deck of Heinz Field, unless you’re below the walkway in the bottom 6 rows by the rail, you are too far away from the action.

Comment by Justinian 12.28.12 @ 10:11 am

in a bowl stadium that would hold 40 – 60,000, the luxury boxes on top would not be that far from the field.

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 10:27 am

Yale did the same thing when they renovated the Yale Bowl – big new press box and luxury suites atop the bowl. Spectacular facilities and great view. Private entrance. Real luxury.

I am happy to help in any way (other than money) in the new Pitt Stadium project.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.28.12 @ 10:33 am

I’ll donate some dough if I can get my name on one of the limestone bricks on the stadium’s exterior or covering the ground of Sutherland Plaza. How much do you think a brick will cost me ($500)?

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 10:44 am

NEXT year no center on team not good
we have one offer out for next year to
goodluck okonobh a 6 foot 9 center but he has a lot of offers we went from to many to none if adams is one and done we are screwed.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.28.12 @ 10:45 am

I will bet you a meal at Peter’s that Steve Adams is the center next year.

Comment by Omar 12.28.12 @ 10:48 am

Princeton did the opposite. Their old stadum was a horseshoe like Ohio State’s. They tore it down built a completely new smaller stadium, with straight seating on sidelines and in the endzone. They erected an exterior facade in the shape of a horseshoe to give it a more traditional look. If a new Pitt stadium were to be built it would probably something similar, but with a larger capacity.

Comment by Justinian 12.28.12 @ 10:54 am

@pittbluegold – the good news is that Palm has us staying in the east – first round in Philly – so we have a better chance of having some fans in the stands.

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.28.12 @ 10:59 am

Not good. Is Jamie running kids off to open up scholarships?
This is not good PR for a program.

link to

Comment by Pitt fan in Atlanta 12.28.12 @ 10:59 am

My only real beef with Dixon has been his inability to land high caliber recruits. Adams kind of fell into his lap, Taylor was not an elite talent despite his All-American credentials, and Birch did not stay. His teams have been littered with three star talent. With the kind of success the program has had over the last decade you would think he would be able to recruit more talented players. We don’t seem to be able to recruit New York like we once did. Not sure what the problem is.

Comment by Floyd 12.28.12 @ 10:59 am

I am one for creating tradition where one does not currently exist.

Current tradition – Players and students bussed to a non college gameday experience at Heinz. New tradition – build a 55k seat stadium on campus and actually have a “player walk” of import, etc.

Pitt has 123 competitors in college football. How many solely use professional stadiums and are ranked in the top 25? Zero is your answer. This is all about keeping up or exceeding your competition.

For example, at OSU, they have turf or grow it from each of their competitors fields in the big10, so that their players are accustomed to it come gameday as it may provide a competitive advantage in some way. They sell it to recruits as a differentiating factor in their commitment to out performing their competitors.

This is all on Pederson and his lack of commitment to Pitt. Look at the top 25 AD’s and compare resume’s to our guy. He doesn’t fit and is not qualified. I am not down on Pitt or any of the programs. In fact, I think if everyone leaves Dixon and Chryst alone, better things are coming.I am down on Pederson and have been for years. He doesn’t get it, believes he has been successful and thinks being invited on a bunch of free trips means he is accepted in the AD community. In fact, it is the opposite.

Merry Chri(y)stmas Everybody! 2013 is the year of the Panthers!

Comment by dhuffdaddy 12.28.12 @ 11:02 am

Gilbert was going to be real good, a true center.
Huge loss.
should have been playing this year off the bench at least.

Comment by frankarms 12.28.12 @ 11:04 am

I don’t know if we need that much capacity but Michigan has done a masterful job of keeping the Big House full and relevant – link to

Comment by Pitt Dad 12.28.12 @ 11:05 am

I happened to be in Ann Arbor for media day this past August, and toured the Big House. The bowels were kind of reminiscent of Pitt Stadium but not as bad. Another similarity is that probbaly 90,000 of the 100,000+ seats do not have backs … all bench seating that allows minimum room for butt cheeks (the Horseshoe is the same way.) If they put the Heinz Field seating in the Big House, capacity would be around 70,000

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 11:13 am

clarification .. if they put Heinz Field SEATS in the Big House, capacity would be around 70,000

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 11:16 am

Bleachers are fine in most areas. Maybe then more fans would stand up and cheer. Seats with back support make it all too easy to sit down.

Gilbert is a huge loss. Could have used his defensive presence. Hopefully, Adams stays another year.

I also agree that Stevie is not a top 25 AD although he is paid like one.

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 11:20 am

As you know, I loved old Pitt Stadium and have yet to set foot in the Pete to express my anger toward Steve P for having it torn down.

I literrally sat in almost every section when I was a Boy Scout usher 62-65 and there was not a bad sight line anywhere. My season ticks were in Section 23 for years.

My client list is one of fundraisers and I sit on several non profit boards. I would join any money drive and any cause that would restore a campus stadium…and then, maybe visit the Pete.

On another note, I watched the Cinncy BBall game last night. Cinncy reminds me of former Pitt teams…tough underneath, trouble scoring points and very physical. They lost last night because they got caught playing a close game and got outfinished. Cannot wait until Monday.

Comment by Dan 72 12.28.12 @ 11:33 am

I think Gilbert is a huge loss not only as a backup next year but believed he was being groomed to be the starter the 2 years after that. Thought he’d be a Gary McGhee type (great defense, solid rebounder) who can also block shots

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 11:48 am

Anyone know how much Pitt actually pays Rooneys/City/State for rental of Heinz Field?

Comment by PittofDreams 12.28.12 @ 11:55 am

I actually believe it is an even tradeoff since the Steelers use the UPMC practice facilities … note that they use both the outdoor and indoor practice areas, they also have their own clubhouse, offices and fitness center

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 12:19 pm

I don’t think Gilbert would be leaving if it isn’t ok with Jamie. My guess is they couldn’t assure him that he would play much.

While I love the on campus stadium talk. Pittsburgh now has Heinz, PNC, CONSOL, and the Pete. The State has serious financial liabilities and our infrastructure is crumbling. The Governor has avoided a highway and bridge program for over a year and keeps cutting budgets for higher ed.

I think a better plan is to improve the experience and college atmosphere at Heinz. Don’t let the buses go back to campus until the game is over etc.

Winning is the answer. Also add to pre and post game activities. Fireworks and Bobbleheads come to mind.

Comment by gc 12.28.12 @ 12:25 pm

Gilbert leaving alone isn’t a red flag. When you string it together with the other 4 then you have a trend. Not sure what it means but I am curious as to why so many kids are leaving.

Also- doesn’t the transfers count against the APR (academic progress report)?

Comment by Pitt fan in Atlanta 12.28.12 @ 12:33 pm

I think maybe the transfer might have to do with the seems like the core player act like an exclusive club that new players have to try to fit into…if they don’t fit they feel their is no place for them on the team. (No concrete evidence of this just my thoughts on what I’ve read and seen on a few up close and personal on the the comments other players made when Birch left and comments I’ve read on how important it is for players to fit in on Pitt teams.

It makes the players in the club a tight group but allows for a lot of outcasts..could be a good thing if the ‘club’ can predict if a player will contribute or not.

Comment by milobloom 12.28.12 @ 12:45 pm

These guys that are leaving aren’t going to high-major programs – Houston, Penn State, Fairfield, and Monroe CC. Only Birch to UNLV would really be considered a lateral move – and Birch had one foot out the door as soon as Skerry left. Kids want playing time – that’s why JJ Richardson, John Johnson and Isaiah Epps all left. Malcolm apparently has some family thing going on (according to someone on the Rivals board). Stuff happens. I don’t think it says anything negative about the program. In fact, maybe it’s to Dixon’s credit that he makes a real effort to place guys in programs that end up being good fits for them.

Comment by Brendan 12.28.12 @ 12:54 pm

What has anyone seen of Gilbert other than his size that equates to greatness? He looked like he needed a redshirt last year and we were caught short when Birch left,so we were forced to try him with no results. This year he was getting a redshirt which indicates our coaches think he is a project yet.We all hoped he would pan out ,but I haven’t seen anything so far that would indicate he would make any impact beyond just being big. @ Floyd, Your beef with Dixon carries no weight. Who cares if the recruits are “high caliber” what matters is wins.What qualifies as high caliber anyway? Is Robinson good enough Zanna?? I’m glad I got a chance to see the Feilds and Wannamker’s even if they weren’t the most publicized.I like that our program doesn’t have a UConn image and I think that if we ever win it ,it will be more satisfying than what they have done because how we got there.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.28.12 @ 1:27 pm

I think your missing my point. I love the underachieving hard nosed players that Pitt has had over the years. I just don’t understand why Pitt is not able to attract more highly rated recruits. The program has been very successful and the Pete is a great place to play. Pitt has been in a top conference and will continue to do so in the ACC. Do you actually think Dixon and his staff are purposely not trying to recruit top talent? It seems from your post that is what your saying.

Comment by Floyd 12.28.12 @ 1:36 pm

I don’t understand the red shirt philosophy. I guess I don’t get Dixon generally, but it seems to be a waste of a scholarship year. You only get 12 in total, so if you red shirt a player or two, you waste that scholarship year, and you basically “lose” it in the player’s fifth year, if they stay. So, the only way to balance the books is if the kid leaves early. Which can happen, of course, if the kid gets really good and develops into a draft pick early. Which of course, is unlikely if the kid could not see playing time as a freshman or sophomore. Or, you send a message to a kid you whiffed on, to get him to leave the team to free up a scholarship, while pretending that is not what you are doing. Not sure I like it either way, but like the latter scenario even less. The fact that these kids (Birch aside) are not transferring to top programs certainly raises a suspicion that these were indeed “whiffs.”

But in Gilbert’s situation, I really did not understand the red shirt, unless he had an injury which we did not know about. Adams has shown promise, but he has not been a world beater, and clearly not an order of magnitude better than Gilbert was last year, if he has been better at all. And if Adams shows the promise, we all know he will be a draft pick, and we will need a center next year. I really thought Gilbert was a better center last year than Dante Taylor. And Talib Zanna is clearly a forward.

I did not share the optimism about this season before this, but this, plus the Epps and Johnson transfers, really makes me wonder even more about Dixon. I know this – if I were now the low man on the pecking order, which is apparently now Chris Jones, or even a Cam Wright or Durand Johnson, I would be playing with one eye counting the recruits sitting in the expensive seats at the Pete during their recruiting trips.

Comment by PO'd Panther 12.28.12 @ 2:05 pm

Floyd, not sure if you meant ‘underachieving’ hard nosed players. Most of my favorite Pitt players were meat and potato types that didn’t necessarily have the great skills or athleticism, but played above their skill set. In fact, my alltime “M&P” Pitt team would be:

C- Gary McGhee
F- Chevy Troutman
F- Nasir Robinson
F- Jaron Brown
G- Antonio Graves
G- Pat Kavanaugh (a walk on)

I still remember the night when Chevy single-handedly took on a UConn front line with 3 future NBA players .. and simply, Jaron was my favorite Pitt player of all time (star or non-star)

Now, I expect more of the current players since they were higher rated than those above but I don’t think mixing a few of these M&P players with the blue chips is a bad thing at all

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 2:24 pm

I meant overachieving not underachieving. Thanks for pointing this out. I also really liked alot of the players you listed by the way. I would add Ontario Lett and Julius Page.

Comment by Floyd 12.28.12 @ 2:33 pm

Jaron was my favorite all-time Pitt player also. My second all-time favorite was Brian Shorter, although he was a much more highly touted player and wouldn’t belong on your list above.

Comment by Floyd 12.28.12 @ 2:42 pm

A lot of terrific players. I just hope we can continue that quality of play in the ACC.

Have a nice weekend and a happy New Year everyone.

Comment by Justinian 12.28.12 @ 3:19 pm

Maybe Dixon doesn’t get the elites become he doesn’t have a track record of playing frosh and getting to Final Fours and just isn’t a very good pitch man and doesn’t move tons of players into the pros and his system is team first. He is starting to get some elite talent, he is starting to play frosh, he will get to that Final Four, players will move on to the pros. It will come but I just don’t think he likes one and done players. Real elite kids are like that.

On the stadium matter. Yes, improve the game day experience by whatever means today, but begin planning now for that on campus stadium 15 to 20 years from now and begin raising those funds. Heinz will be a dump in 20 years. The life of the typical pro stadium is 30 years although Heinz will probably be around for 50 until the Rooneys cry to the city and state for funding a new one. Who knows…football may not even be popular then and the Rooneys may all be dead or none interested in a pro franchise investment.

I think college football will always be around although probably not as popular as it is today. I think we are at the zenith. My suggestion is to not over build the stadium part and to plan it as multi purpose with a good mix of dorm space, classrooms, commercial.

Another suggestion, in honor of the city’s historical iron and steel works so as not to be forgotten, place some blast furnace smokestack in the plaza. Could be used as a bonfire like A and M before the big game.

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 3:25 pm

That was one of my favorite games of the past 10 years. UConn started out on fire and we looked dead in the water down by as many as 17 I think. Slowly, but surely pitt battled back and Troutman finished with an absurd double-double. That was a great game for Pitt fans. Also, if I remember correctly, that was the first College Gameday.

Comment by Vulcan Rob 12.28.12 @ 4:16 pm

If the funding for the new stadium emanates from this site, maybe we can name it Pitt Blather Stadium …. and refer to it simply as The Blog

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 4:27 pm

KRF is playing with a drawing or 2, now we need a PITT BOT member or 2 to tell us if they would even consider a feasibility study. I’ll bet there are some alumni with a few bucks and a persuasion towards a stadium who might be willing to get a feasibility study going. “Dreams will always be just that, unless you put them on paper and try to make them happen.”

Comment by CompLit 12.28.12 @ 5:31 pm

How about “The Blather Rotunda”

Comment by CompLit 12.28.12 @ 5:32 pm

Wbb, this site could be the spark for the revolution and a new Pitt era of unrivaled success. The way it begins should be as follows: drawn up plans presented to a few very influential boosters and city council members with Pitt ties to garner support. Those plans are then presented to both the full city council, community leaders and the Pitt BOT. The plans selling points would be more than just a stadium…dorms, small business, classrooms, keep the action and money in oakland, civic pride, something new, beautiful and integrated into the community fabric and owned by its citizens.

2 years is then given to raise 20 percent of the cash financing…I figure around 200 million so that means 40 million must be raised. The other 200 million for the stadium will be financed via bonds. If that goal isn’t reached, the idea has no legs. But if it does since those plans will be so wonderful and the reward so great, the next phase kicks in which is securing an architect and acquiring land purchases for the development. Fund raising continues and picks up speed as Pitt dominates the ACC and both Stevie and Nordy have been put to pasture. It can happen if you believe.

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 5:46 pm

Maybe the Panther Hollow Inn should be the Panther Hollow Dorms? TX Panther may be right, dorms may be needed to get things to progress..
You walk along the stadium onto the walkway to the 7th or 8th floor of the dorms.

Comment by CompLit 12.28.12 @ 5:52 pm

Maybe we have the “blue chippers” now. Adams could be the real deal and Robinson is as good a freshman guard as anyone can hope to recruit.We aren’t exactly Kentucky or North Carolina either. I think Dixon is doing fine and these prima donna McDonald’s wonders are often more ag than they are the panacea we are all hoping for. This BS that Dixon can’t do this or why can’t we attract is fools logic.Gilbert transfers and instantly it assumed it’s because we mishandled him. Maybe it is because he isn’t that good or will get to play more for a lessser program. Dixon gets paid big money to make it work.Turn pampered,over egoed adolescents into a successful hoop team. He does it better than anyone we have ever had so let’s at least make some effort to trust his methods.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.28.12 @ 5:54 pm

Gilbert was going to be real good, a true center.
Huge loss.
should have been playing this year off the bench at least.

Comment by frankarms 12.28.12 @ 11:04 am

If that was a given, Gilbert wouldn’t have transferred to a program like Fairfield. Give me a break. He showed nothing last year. Was actually worse than that other 6-10 stiff Dixon recruited out of JUCO the other year.

This is no loss at all, as all he was….was a tall body with no offensive skills whatsoever.
That scholarship can certainly be put to better use. Especially now since we’re going to the ACC.

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 7:26 pm

It’s funny how ppl think all these kids who transfer are good. There is no indication AT ALL that Gilbert is going to be a good center.

Heck if he couldn’t get playing time this year, with only Taylor to beat out, what does that tell you.

It should tell you he stinks. lol

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 7:30 pm

Off the top of my head, North Carolina, yes them the Tarheels have had at least 3 players transfer out.

And those 3 were far better than anything that has left Pitt.

The Wear Twins. both 6-10 and McDonalds All-Americans
And Larry Drew II, another McDonald All-American.

Actually most of the top programs DO NOT keep kids around that don’t fit into their programs or aren’t the top notch talent they thought they were coming out of HS.

The only one we lost remotely close to being a topnotch talent was Birch. And that had more to do with asst. coach(Herrion ?) who recruited him leaving, imo

P.S. might have been the asst. coach who was only with us for 1 year instead of Herrion.

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 7:43 pm

if Gary McGhee would have transferred in his soph year, nobody would have cared. As I recall, McGhee played very sparingly his 1st 2years and theonly thing he showed was the propensity to egt into foul trouble.

I think Gilbert showed some promise defensively and as a rebounder, but he had 4 years left (3 active) to turn into a serviceable player … and it’s way way too early to make any kind of judgment on him

Comment by wbb 12.28.12 @ 8:00 pm

My favorite M & P (Meat & Potatoes) Pitt players:

Center: Aaron Gray. (guy was a dud first 2 years and made himself into an NBA player who was an offensive force in college) talk about an overachiever.

Forward: Sam Young (guy made himself into a 1rst team all-BigEast NBA player after not being that highly recruited, also transformed himself from a blocks type player into a reliable 3 point shooter and just an all-around great player after sitting behind Levon Kendall for 2 years)

Forward: Clyde Vaughn (not highly recruited either, but became PItt’s best outside shooter EVER and PITT’s ONLY player EVER to lead the BigEast in Scoring. And at only 6-4, boy could he rebound)Also one of only Two players EVER at Pitt to score over 2000 points.

Guard: Brad Wannamaker (the epitome of what a “glue guy” is. Did everything pretty good and became the heart & the soul of the team. that was expected to flounder after losing 2 NBA draft picks and a 3 yr starting PG)

Guard: Carl Krauser (was simply put, Pitt’s only “go to player” in the years he played. Nobody played harder than Carl. 31-5 still Pitt’s best record ever from his 2003-2004 team)

Swingman: Jaron Brown (did the same thing as Wannamaker, except left-handed, and was the best defensive player on his teams)

Honorable Mention: Brandon Knight, cause he was part of our transformation. Levance Fields, just a real tough kid that played with an incredible moxy about him. Gary McGhee, kept the hard nosed, work hard tradition going, nose to the grind stone thing.

This list was not easy to compose and had to leave off many. Which is a statement to how good the program is.

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 8:14 pm


You’re right about McGhee.

But for every Gary McGhee, there are five (5)
Cassin Diggs.

I went over the last 10 years or so recruit list.
50% of them never pan out.

I would venture to say this is pretty close to the norm with most good programs.

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 8:24 pm

Can not believe people think these transfers have been a loss, especially Epps and Gilbert. Did they not see them on the court last year. The upside is so limited. I would take the extra scholarship in a second.

Comment by Jimbo 12.28.12 @ 8:32 pm

typo: meant to type 40%

We had 35 bb recruits since 2002 and 13 have been whiffs, washouts, busts, whatever term you like.

That’s 37%. Granted 2011 class ran a little higher(just a tad, lol) than 37%. It’s at 75% atm.

I guess in a 10 year period, you’re bound to have one or two years that are aberrations.

Life is sort of like that. :-)

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 8:48 pm

This Rutgers VTech game has set organized football back 100 years.
Just awful football. Worse than the Sun Bowl.

Comment by SFPitt 12.28.12 @ 8:50 pm

Hey… is anyone going to:

The Sayonara Sunseri Bowl ??

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 8:59 pm

lol I forgot that game was on.

Sounds like it was a good thing.

20 1rst downs total, 10-10 less than minute to go. It would be merciful if this game didn’t go into Overtime.

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 9:03 pm

Gary Nova would have been the only highly rated recruit they would have brought in to compete 😉
against Sir Tino.

He was horrid against us.

Tonight he’s 15 of 38 (39%) for 124 yards with 1 pick. 0 TD’s

And people wonder why I call Sir Tino, Sir Tino.

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 9:09 pm

funny post from the game conversation: “What do you mean we can’t punt in OT?”

Comment by panther94 12.28.12 @ 9:09 pm

That’s after the much talked about extra month’s worth of practice everyone loves to site about the positives of going to a bowl game. uh huh

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 9:10 pm


Both these horrid QB’s are 15 of 38.

No wonder we beat both teams ! It’s not easy to find many teams with a worse QB than ours.
But we did manage to find a couple.

Butgers, Va Tech, Temple (wow was that guy terrible), USF (was even he recruited to play D1 QB, was even worse than the Temple QB) and the D2 kid from Gardner Webb was like more D3 than D2)

Good scheduling on Pitt’s part and for Sir Tino.
Finding the worst QB’s in America to play against.

Got to hand it to them.

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 9:16 pm

I think either of these teams could use a little ‘High octane’…

Speaking of which, I could use anyone’s advice on where I can rent some Navy gear for the Navy vs. Az state game?

Also, Good job to VT for sticking it out, ACC beats out the (future) Big 10.

Comment by Benzene 12.28.12 @ 9:16 pm

Finally Butgers was mercifully put down.

13-10 Va Tech.

That was the shortest OT game on record. Butgers couldn’t even manage a FG in the OT. lol

Yes they’ll do quite well in the B1G. Indiana will finally have a chance (mind you a chance) to vacant the eternal B1G cellar they usually inhabit.

Comment by Emel 12.28.12 @ 9:22 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Dixon go after a JC big man. Should Adams leave after this year, we would have a very small team returning the next season, and Zanna would most likely be the center.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 12.28.12 @ 9:40 pm

I loved Clyde Vaughn. Named my first cat after him…seriously. If I recall, he was British. What characters and good ball players Pitt had in the day.

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 9:42 pm

cant teach 7ft, and I do believe he would have been better than Mcgee and Gray and if not then a 7 ft backup ain’t bad.
What happens this year if sleepy or Adams go down? or both.

Comment by frankarms 12.28.12 @ 9:48 pm

Just don’t get the Pitt Stadium whine and I was enrolled during the football glory years. It was an outdated dump! Would ya get back to reality. Wish Gilbert the best but he had the Toree Morris future look. Johnson and Epps were not D-1 college players. But Johnson transferred to PU! I rest my case. Give me guys who will bust it trying to get better like Kendall or Ramon. UPone

Comment by UPone 12.28.12 @ 10:42 pm

The whine is because Heinz is souless. On campus stadiums have soul. On campus stadiums support the school and neighborhood. Heinz fills the Rooneys pockets. Need to think forward. Does Pitt really want to be playing in dumpy Heinz field 20 years from now and giving their money to the Rooneys? If you build it, he will come.

Comment by TX Panther 12.28.12 @ 11:24 pm

Upone, we’re not wishing back Pitt stadium; we want a new facility on campus. The key words being “on campus.”

Comment by panther94 12.28.12 @ 11:48 pm

I think Gilbert would have developed into a good center. It would have been better if they could have red shirted him his freshman year. I think it’s tough to sit out as a sophomore if you’re not injured. What can you say, he wants to play and he didn’t think he would play much here at Pitt. Birch was another story, he was starting, but he seemed pissed off because Jamie Dixon made him work for hard to earn the playing time.

Comment by Justinian 12.29.12 @ 12:03 am

T(TINO)- Minus 7 Days and Counting!!!

Comment by PittofDreams 12.29.12 @ 2:16 am

there is so much dust from all this building,

Comment by paul shannon 12.29.12 @ 7:26 am

I’m amazed by everyone who says Pitt Stadium was a dump. It was and old traditional stadium like the stadiums in the Big Ten, the Rose Bowl, or Yale Bowl. You couldn’t find better sight lines for watching the game. There were no bad seats and there was an open view with no obstructions. No upper deck, so even the top rows were much closer to the action. Actually the best seats were the top rows between the 40s. I had watched games form the endzone during Tony Dorsett’s 300 yard game against Notre Dame and saw all the holes open up. I watched Pitt crush Florida State, the year after the upset in Tallahasse cost Pitt a national championship, from low in the corner “normally the worst seat in the house” and I could see the game well. You couldn’t find a better place for seeing the game. Of course it had bench seats. It didn’t have all the amenites of Heinz field with the jumbo-tron, the luxury boxes, press boxes, and apparel shops. However it did have a porcelin version of Heinz Field’s piss trough.

Comment by Justinian 12.29.12 @ 8:30 am

I vote porcelin over cold steel for the troughs. All the logos of our ACC playing mates should adorn them including Pedo State. That will give true meaning to piss on State. Now if Pitt could only find a way for sucks. Oh, I forgot, Sandusky already came through on that.

Old Pitt stadium had charm and character. It was a dump in terms of amenities for sure and some basic things like restroom facilities, food vendors, etc but those site lines were great. I just didn’t like that damn track around the field. And I didn’t like the walk up Cardiac Hill but I was drunk most of the time so it went by quickly.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 8:41 am

Emel’s post above claims that (Sir) Tino is a better QB than Nova. I hope you all realize that Nova, as a freshman last year, beat out Chas Dodd, who as a freshman the year before, beat out the heir apparent to Tino

Comment by wbb 12.29.12 @ 9:06 am

Scary but true. And they say “be careful what you wish for.”

However, I got to think if Chryst can do what he did with Tino (i.e. 2 INTs)… he’s got to be able to get something out of Savage.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.29.12 @ 9:18 am

And if not… Chapman, Voytik, Anderson… in that order.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.29.12 @ 9:20 am

the best thing Chryst did for Tino was put him back into an offense that he was suited for … which, by the way, is the reason Savage left Arizona after RichRod came in and chose to come to Pitt.

I do think Savage can have a really good year particularly since he would have been in the program for a year by the time next August comes around.

Comment by wbb 12.29.12 @ 9:27 am

Tx Panther, I remember my father parking at the Gulf station on Forbes and walking up Cardiac Hill as a kid. When I got season tickets, I would park by Fitzgerald, at the top of the hill. After they put synthetic turf on the playing field, the university used it for all kinds of things. Despite the lack of amenities it was still a mistake to tear it down. They may never replace it with another on campus stadium. As we can all see, moving to Heinz Field didn’t really help the attendance figures. When the Pitt athletic office announces the attendance figures, I wonder who they think they are fooling. I hope that Paul Chryst is able to build a strong program here. I would love to see Pitt football games at Heinz Field to once again become an event that people want to attend.

Comment by Justinian 12.29.12 @ 9:39 am

actually Justinian, there is an argument that moving to Heinz did help the attendance figures. The highest average attendance figures that Pitt has ever had were during this last decade. Yes, the figures were inflated over the past 2 seasons but that wasn’t the case during much of the time at Heinz.

This is one argument I refuse to buy since Pitt (1) does not have a large student population compared to most D1 schools, (2) has a higher student commuter percentage than most D1 scools, and most importantly (3) the people who attend football games afre mostly from outside of the Oakland area.

In fact, this is the reason for the original argument for a T extension …. Oakland is not easily accessible … which is criminal since Fifth and Forbes in Oakland throughout the weekday has more traffic than Liberty Ave and Grant St downtown (note that I said throughout the day and not during rush hour)

Comment by wbb 12.29.12 @ 10:24 am

Attendance is better at Heinz Field than it was Pitt Stadium when they made the move..The entire 90’s Pitt’s average attendance was low 30 thousands. (With actual attendance probably in low 20 thousands.) In 03 (when the team was ranked high at beginning of the season) Pitt had an average announced attendance of almost 60,000. Even when Pitt was #1 in early 80’s they only had average attendance of 52,000.

I find those that say they loved Pitt Stadium were the ones that only went to the big games…They weren’t there when the crowds were under 20,000..tell me how great the college experience was at those games?..I was there and everyone at that time said something drastic had to be done. Recruits played in front of bigger crowds for their high school game (at better stadiums to boot.) If they kept that stadium Pitt would basically be Temple except in Western part of PA.

As far as sight lines you guys act like there are poles obstructing the views at Heinz field…there was a friggin track around the field at Pitt stadium..the end zone seats were terrible. I’ve sat all around Heinz field (easy to do with the small crowds) and all the seats are good..I do agree the ones at the very top in the corners are far from the action…but still a ton better than sitting in the end zones at Pitt stadium.

Comment by milobloom 12.29.12 @ 10:26 am

How about the Junction Hollow Field area of Panther Hollow for an eventual stadium? You can see the cathedral rising above the end zone area. The field is at the bottom of Panther Hollow just off 376 when you come through the Squirrel Hill tunnel.

If you could fit a stadium there it may be the best compromise as it would be walkable from the heart of campus but you could have large parking lots down by the Mon.

Honestly though I’d prefer if they just tore down Posvar and everything else between Forbes and Blvd of the Allies and put a stadium where Forbes Field used to be.

Comment by Dan35 12.29.12 @ 10:28 am

Well put WBB…let’s not forget Heinz Field is only 4 miles from Pitt…not like it’s a 30 min drive from campus…it’s only a ten minute drive…If you put a another stadium on campus some people may have to park 4 miles away!
Not to mention the North Shore is getting better and better every year a very cool place to go..more bars and restaurants ..Boats docked up on the river for the earlier games…bands playing at Stage AE..Tailgates all around….plus fairly easy to get to from all parts of the city.

I do agree with the T to should of been done when it was first built in the 80’s…but I just know it won’t happen in next two decades.especially with the current governor and the current state of PAT.

Comment by milobloom 12.29.12 @ 10:36 am

been to both, I’d take pitt stadium over heinz field every time.

Comment by goalie44 12.29.12 @ 11:01 am

I’m torn on this. Having a stadium on campus was special but it isolated the games from the city of Pittsburgh which lead to the low attendance.

Pitt is not a school like a lot of the Big 10 or SEC schools … where the alumni move away and it’s an event to come back to campus. The alumni at these schools generally move to the bigger cities within driving distance of the campus.

Pitt – being a “city” school – has a lot of alumni stay and it’s not an event to get back on campus. Also, being a city school means a lot of alumni move to other cities and it’s more difficult to get back to campus. Cleveland and Buffalo are not hot beads for our alumni. Philly, DC and NYC are. And all are just outside of an easy drive back several weekends per year.

Plus, a lot of Pitt alumni that stay near Pittsburgh must choose between a Steelers game or a Pitt game for the weekend … based on the successes of each franchise, you can imaging which one most people go with … The Steelers. The Steelers are more than a school association in Pittsburgh – it a generational and family experience … which is what the Big 10 and SEC schools already have because the college teams are the pro teams.

That is why Heinz Field is important. It gives Pitt a connection to the City and expands it’s fan base beyond alumni … keep in mind, I haven’t even mentioned the 30 years of at least 3 losses and the incredible mediocrity rut Pitt has been in.

I’ve seen numbers that show Pitt is one of the top city school draws for attendance. I believe only USC, UCLA and Miami (barely) out draw Pitt. And remember LA does not have pro teams to compete with college … plus it’s freakin’ LA and has one of the largest population bases in the country.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 12.29.12 @ 11:03 am

I still think Pitt must make it better for the students at Heinz. A good tailgate with some snacks and some beverages at least and a memento or gift card for each game.

Comment by frank MD 12.29.12 @ 11:31 am

milo bloom speaks a rational point of view. Add to his points, the multiple North Shore hotels within walking distance to Heinz Field, the infrastructure for getting to and from the game, ie., Gateway Clipper fleet,the recent T terminal, multiple four lane highways to the North Shore, adequate adjacent parking all around the field, and that fu*king Rivers Casino (that as of late has been taking my money like a spendthrift wife with a shopping addiction) that is an easy walk from Heinz Field and you might as well dream about something else that has little more chance of becoming a reality, like maybe a balanced federal budget for instance. LMAO!!

An on campus stadium being constructed in the foreseeable future has a zero percent chance of happening, ZERO. Love you guys and your optimism. The dream is beautiful, I’d love to see it become a reality. Won’t now, might never will, don’t mean to kill the thrill but Heinz Field just fits the bill.

Now something that is realistic, is getting the AD and Pitt’s administration behind the Pitt football program 100% and start doing EVERYTHING imaginable to get this program back to its winning ways now that the new era of Pitt football in the ACC is upon us. THAT is totally doable. When Pitt is winning 10 games a season against the likes of VT, GT, Notre Dame, Penn State, etc. The poor attendence issue will evapoate faster than a dropped ice cube on a hot asphalt sidewalk in the middle of July.

Let’s start that party with a win against Old Miss in a week. Chas, when are you going to initiate a thread about that here and now bowl game?

Comment by Dr. Tom 12.29.12 @ 11:40 am

They actually do have a student tailgate before every game right along the river. As I walk by it every game it appears very well attended by the students.

Comment by milo bloom 12.29.12 @ 12:06 pm

Playing in a cold sterile rent-a-field is OK at present. As we progress from being mediocre to above average (9-10 wins per year) the next step becomes more possible. To become a perennial top ten program requires more student and alumni involvement This requires an on-campus stadium.

Comment by Houston Panther 12.29.12 @ 12:20 pm

We Texans must think alike. The on campus stadium is for 15 to 20 years from now. When Pitt has a new AD and after years of ACC success. After years of fund raising and land acquisition. CompLit opened my eyes. And this will be more than just a stadium. That’s how you get it done. And get it done the right way…no track, no yellow seats, smaller sized, dorms, classrooms, commercial, plaza, hall of fame, bowl shaped, limestone facade, view of our TD Cathedral, porcelin piss troughs, etc, etc. Hail to Oakland. Hail to Pitt.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 12:35 pm

Dr Tom, I’m with you, while the fantasy is fun, what is past is past. The answre is to embrace the now. Winning will solve 90% of the problems.

Maybe we should be a little more like PSU, they don’t care about the past, although they would like their victories reinstated, they just support their team.

We seem to pick ours apart more than most.

There is no comparison with the amenities of Heinz vs. Pitt Stadium. The Great Hall, the Club areas. As Dr Tom said, Hotels restaurants, Casino, Parking, accessibility, tailgating. The T, and the Gateway Clipper. Playing and practicing where the Steelers play should be a major advantage for recruiting.

Will the whining stop, no, its in our nature and why there are guys like us on this thread.

It is all better, and will get even better if we start winning.

Comment by gc 12.29.12 @ 12:45 pm

Here’s a reprint of what I originally posted on Smizik’s Blog a year ago in response to his continued baseless claim that Heinz has proven itself to be a better draw than the old Pitt Stadium.

Based upon some of the commments above, it seems another reality check is in order.

The fact is anyone who promotes the idea that Heinz Field is automatically a better draw than Pitt Stadium is simply perpetuating misinformation.

In fact, the available numbers show Pitt Stadium and Heinz Field draw very much the same based upon how good the team is.

Here are some numbers.


Pitt Stadium

1982 with a 9-3 record average attendance 54,818

1996 with a 4-7 record average attendance 30,795.

1995 with a 2-9 record average attendance 33,175.

Heinz Field

2003 with a 8-3 record average attendance 59,197

2007 with a 5-7 record average attendance 33,680

2009 with a 10-3 record average attendance 53,446


In my opinion, a new more easily accessible Pitt Stadium as promited by CompLit would consistently outdraw both the old Pitt Stadium and Heinz Field whatver the team’s record.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.29.12 @ 12:46 pm

I am not against a campus stadium but ONLY if, at a minimum, a T extension goes into Oakland as well as a better access to the Parkway than Bates.

These are absolute dealbreakers

Comment by wbb 12.29.12 @ 12:48 pm

Agree wbb. That should be part of the feasibility study. Therefore, this stadium has to be more than just a stadium. If people worked and lived there, it stands a better chance.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 1:04 pm

Absolutely regarding the extension of the light rail to Oakland and beyond.

I and some others here proposed that early in the season as a way to provide students e more seemless transportation alternative to games.

However, it work even better with a new Pitt Stadium in Oakland by helping alleviate the need for construction of new parking areas.

Fans on gamesday could Park ‘n Ride into Oakland on gamedays similar to commuters on workdays.

CompLit is on to something.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.29.12 @ 1:07 pm

PittofDreams…your numbers show what many have been saying…win and it doesn’t matter what stadium they play in..if that is the case why in heck should we overpay for a stadium in the most crowded part of the city that would be a nightmare to get every game when they have a perfectly fine stadium to play in a short drive away.
Also the stadium proposed in this thread is projected around 45,000…If were going to draw 59,000 a game when they are good again why try to cram such a small stadium in Oakland…If Pitt is going to win again it will need one at least 60,000.

Also from an attendance standpoint, 50,000 tickets sold at Pitt Stadium and 50,000 at Heinz Field is a huge difference dollar wise because of higher price they can charge for clubs seats (and all the extra concession as far beer sales.) So in Pitt’s defense it was a huge benefit when they moved dollar wise….which is all that really matter in the long run.

Comment by milo bloom 12.29.12 @ 1:32 pm

Guys, If they can they make it easier and more appealing for the students to attend the home games at Heinz Field, it could make a big difference. As far the alumni and local fans showing up, the improvement in the schedule with the move to the ACC will certainly help. However winning more is what will resolve the attendence issues. Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Justinian 12.29.12 @ 1:51 pm

Yeah and when they win the fair weather fans come out of the woodwork, make donations and take seats from the die hard fans who attend games no matter what the outcomes may be.
That to me is one very big reason for the poor attendance now.
I know quite a lot of people who lost their seats to large donors in the past and never went to a game again.

Comment by frankarms 12.29.12 @ 2:14 pm

By the way, those large donors are the empty yellow seats you see now.

Comment by frankarms 12.29.12 @ 2:16 pm

The perfectly fine stadium will be a dump in 20 years. The new on campus venue will depend on mass transit to alleviate parking and traffic congestion. Major dependency here. Don’t think of it as just a stadium. Pitt needs more classrooms and dorm space. Local businesses need space to rent. Proposed stadium will probably max out at 55k. Bleachers people. Heinz is only 65k anyway after the future expansion in the endzone. New Pitt stadium will also have those money making suites and club seats. Beer may not even be the fashionable drink in 20 years. Again, we’re talkin about the future when Heinz becomes what old Pitt stadium used to be. Believe me, the Rooneys will be asking for another new stadium in 30 years…about 10 years too late. Pitt needs to be proactive and create a unique stadium full of character and charm which is again more than just a sterile stadium…a place where people work, live and play. Imagine Sutherland Plaza, views of TD Cathedral, constant buzz and activity around the stadium, effective use of property that has been long neglected and not generating money, a Pitt Hall of Fame, street vendors, a public square, bad ass Panther guardians to our house, a lit blast furnance stack for pep rallys, a chance for alumni to see the game and campus at once, underground tunnel access from the main campus spine, a true place to call home for athletes, students, profs, the community of Oakland, fans and alumni. We’re stuck with Heinz…for now.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 2:30 pm

A couple of points in response…

– Most people including Smizik have perpetuated the misperception that Heinz automatically outdraws the old Pitt Stadium. As the numbers show, this is simply not true.

– Who says the new Pitt Stadium on the Frick Fine Arts site would have to be limited to 45,000? CompLit shows the footprint of the old Pitt Stadium can comfortably fit within the site’s boundaries. Minus the track, the stadium could be made to seat 60 thousand or more and within a smaller footprint.

– Lastly, as I’ve said above… Heinz Field is stark and with 40,000 or less fans in the seats has all the ambiance of a nineties mall with half of its stores shut down. The mustard seats also scream “EMPTY” to TV audiences. It may work for 60,000 Steeler fans but that’s it. And let’s not even rehash the shortcomings of the upper deck design.

– As for revenue, did we not mention private boxes? And why not beer sales?
Charleston Daily Mail (Feb 2012)

MORGANTOWN, W.Va. — Adding beer sales and requiring West Virginia University football fans to stay put throughout games (i.e. not leave the stadium to drink and then return) translated to stronger concession sales and fewer arrests this past season, a student who crunched numbers for the athletic department said Friday.

Industrial engineering student Richard Woody told the Board of Governors that concession sales were up 84 percent overall from the previous football season, while food sales were up 60 percent.

CompLit is on to something.

But we still need to see a feasibility study.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.29.12 @ 2:43 pm

TX Panther… I’m sold.

My guess is that a feasibility study would ultimately show higher average attendance than either the old Pitt Stadium or Heinz irrespective of the team’s record.

The whole point is to make the entire gameday experience superior in comparison for the average fan.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.29.12 @ 2:55 pm

@CompLit, TX Panther etc..I am sold as well. Your website(CompLit),is quite impressive. I can see it, see your vision, and I love it.

I don’t mind Heinz field but at the end of the day it isn’t Pitt. It isn’t ours in the sense that it’s not at Pitt, in Oakland. I wish I had won the lottery and could somehow turn this pipe dream into a reality. I will, however, help push the cause in anyway I can. The only way it will happen is with organization and volunteer effort.
So sign me up.

that aside…Watching the Pinstripe Bowl and wishing I was there watching Pitt crush the Hoopies.

Comment by Jeff in CPa 12.29.12 @ 3:43 pm

Not just attendance or gate receipts but more revenue from student housing, rental property for businesses, much needed classrooms, concerts and graduations, allows Pitt to admit more students and have more students live on campus if stadium serves more than one purpose. Allows Oakland local small businesses to profit as opposed to large franchise chains. You don’t have to sell this idea on higher attendance figures alone. And it will be a far superior game day experience for the entire neighborhood and campus. And there will be activity around the stadium and connected to it 24/7. Key selling points to me are this is not just a stadium concept and this is dependent on mass transit options.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 4:18 pm

The game day atmosphere at Pitt Stadium was awesome. That it is gone is a shame. Heinz Field sucks. Hell I remember driving around looking for parking and sometimes being a mile away, but it was worth it.
Cicero’s before and Decade after.

Comment by frankarms 12.29.12 @ 5:12 pm

PittofDreams, lookiing quickly at your numbers, appears the Heinz attendance is roughly 20% higher, not a number a would dismiss. It would be nice to have a stadium on campus, but I personally don’t miss the Pitt Stadium experience, actually like Heinz. Hard to imagine it being worth the cost to build this dream stadium, but I’ll play along – what about the property where Schenley High is/was located? and the surrounding area?

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 12.29.12 @ 5:51 pm

I think Schenley High is historical and I have heard that it has asbestos. And I don’t think its nearly as large as the area between Frick and Katz and down to the hollow.

What was it about the Pitt stadium experience that one didn’t like. Remember, we’re talking about a new stadium and multip purpose concept.

My drawbacks were the climb up the hill, the traffic after the game, parking was never an issue for me…mass transit will solve many traffic issues, the restrooms and piss troughs although if the State Penn logo was on them I may reconsider, the lack of quality food vendors, the difficulty navigating from one section to another, the track around the field.

All these would ideally be resolved with the new concept. The advantages have already been discussed ad naseum. Feasibility study, raise the funds, secure the land, build it.

Again revenue from rental property, dorm housing in addition to gate receipts must be considered. And, the fact it helps further Pitts educational mission via more classrooms and dorms. Keeps the money in Oakland small business hands and out of national heartless chains as well.

Don’t dream the dream. Live it and let’s make it become a reality. Your Heinz experience will not be so good in 20 years when that stadium becomes dumpy and traffic is worse and more bland food chains take over parking lots and prime tailgate places.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 6:08 pm

Hoopoes getting owned by cuse. Two safeties on Sir Geno.

Comment by panther94 12.29.12 @ 6:14 pm

And Birch looked lost against the ACC: 4 turnovers, 3 fouls and it gets worse from there.

Made my evening.

Comment by steve1 12.29.12 @ 6:33 pm

And he did it all in 17min.
Wasn’t he getting more PT @ Pitt?

Comment by xfmrman 12.29.12 @ 6:57 pm

And, from what I saw he was playing the 5.

Comment by xfmrman 12.29.12 @ 6:58 pm


Yep, loved seeing Cuse take it to the hoopies. Just pisses me off more that we let that game get away against the Orangemen

Comment by Kenny Powers 12.29.12 @ 7:02 pm

COMPLit said his design was 42,000 guys keep dreaming…..your ignoring the obvious issues and the reasons it will never happen.(plus your understating the games a little at Heinz Field..I agree they need work but they are not as terrible as people are saying..ok Wednesday night games on a cold rainy night are horrible but that’s ESPN’s and our old conference’s fault not Pitt’s.)

franarms I am fairly certain you weren’t going to games at Pitt Stadium in early and mid 90’s if you thought the Pitt game atmosphere was ‘awesome’…or pehaps you just have low epectations of a college atmosphere.

Comment by milo bloom 12.29.12 @ 7:19 pm

The crowd at Pin Stripe bowl was terrible..I’m .sure they wish they would if had Pitt and WVU instead…it would of been a much better crowd…not too mention a better TV rating as well.

Comment by milo bloom 12.29.12 @ 7:21 pm

We have seen schools go from nowhere to national prominence in just a few years. Look at Stanford, Oregon and TCU as just a few examples. If Chryst is the right guy he could get us there in 3 or 4 more years. As this happens, interest will build, tickets will be sold and big wallets can be opened. Then is the time to start building the new stadium while interest in the program is high and interest rates for bonds is low. We could be in the new stadium by the end of the decade. I don’t want to wait for 15 or 20 years.

Comment by Houston Panther 12.29.12 @ 7:55 pm

Excuse me for being dense but what are the obvious reasons?

Money? Get rid of Stevie and have Ditka lead the fundraising. Take advantage of todays low interest rates.

Parking and traffic? Have the T become part of the package.

Land? Between Frick and Katz and down to Panther Hollow.

Again we are not talking about a replica of that old dump Pitt stadium. We have described something new, uniquely Oakland and Pitt, and multi purpose. Something that is part of the neighborhoods fabric where citizens can take ownership and pride. Don’t just think an improvement of game day atmosphere. Think of a focal point of living, working and playing in Oakland.

Heinz will only get worse as parking space is gobbled up, more business locate on available land on the North Shore, and more big box chains sprout up. The ketchup will run dry shortly.

A bowl shaped stadium with bleachers could probably hold 55k max…assuming standing room and field seating. If Pitt ever needs to sell more tickets, I’m sure Heinz could accomodate an additional 10k.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 8:41 pm

there is no need for a horseshoe stadium … the Cathedral is certainly large enough for everyone to take notice — open or closed end. A bowl stadium of 50 – 55k is just fine

Comment by wbb 12.29.12 @ 8:56 pm

We should have a new thread on this.

Comment by panther94 12.29.12 @ 8:58 pm

Steve, I saw a little of the game. Birch scored 3 points, hardly a super star performance.

Comment by Justinian 12.29.12 @ 9:01 pm

I am working on a sketch in cad with existing 2 foot contours, brought in the parcels(property lines) and overlayed a bing aerial image. I used nippert stadium as a footprint, cinncy stadium. It’s an on campus city stadium with a similar siZe and half open end zone to face the cathedral. It fits but needs some work. Posvar hall is a waste and needs to be demo’d to make this feasible but I”ll see what I can come up with. It may take me a while.

Pitt civil engineering grad in 03.

Comment by KRF 12.29.12 @ 9:27 pm

The current Nippert Stadium holds only 35k … I still see no need for an open end to the Catherdral. Forbes Field wasn’t open ended towards the Catherdral but I assure you that you still noticed it

Comment by wbb 12.29.12 @ 9:53 pm

I would love to see the look. I think one reason for my initial resistance to an on campus stadium was where would it be located. Old schenley high isn’t on a parcel big enough and there are other reasons against this option as I explained previously. I’m not a big fan of anything in schenley since its a park and green space is valuable, its city land and its too far removed from campus to be a focal point. I never thought of the location by the frick building. If it can fit along with space for some dorms and classrooms and small business shops on the ground floor along with a plaza, I think more could be sold on the idea. Seeing is believing.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 9:54 pm

I love oklahoma states stadium, the football operations building on the west side is awesome. The players walk out onto the stadium from there, Seats 60K. The have a huge booster who pays for everything.

Comment by KRF 12.29.12 @ 10:25 pm

Any chance you think the city would buy into a parking garage across from phipps on frew street inthe corner of schenely. Fans could walk across bridge to stadium.

Comment by KRF 12.29.12 @ 10:37 pm

Who is Pitt’s T Boone Pickens?

The city would be for anything they can tax or raise a fee.

My deal breakers are: this concept must be more than just a stadium, mass transit options need to be developed, the land site can support it all, and Ditka leads the fundraising.

Comment by TX Panther 12.29.12 @ 10:59 pm

Its fun to think about the on-campus stadium dream but we need to get engaged to make the games at Heinz better.

What about reconfiguring the student section- maybe make it more like the Oakland Zoo at the Pete. Line up the student section for the first 10 to 15 rows on the entire sideline (I know that creates standing problems for the regular fans behind them, but just make a two row buffer where the seats are covered. It’s not like we can’t spare them).

By the way, make them the OAKLAND ZOO complete with a blue football version of the shirt each year. Create some pride in the student section like we have in BB. It’s so frustrating how great our basketball student section is compared to how bad our football student section is.

Finally- BRING BACK THE PITT FIGHT SONG in its original glory. So what if we all sing in unison “PENN STATE SUCKS”. (1) its fun (2) its true and (3) it is good for morale.

Comment by Dan35 12.29.12 @ 11:42 pm

AS I’ve said before..


All it takes is the will from leadership.

PITT has plenty of money and can raise lots of money with bonds. And we’re going to have more money with the new ACC loot.

Heinz Field should only be used WHILE we’re building our new Campus Facility.

If the University of Minnesota finally came to the conclusion that playing in the MetroDome for 20 years wasn’t helping their football program and built a great 50K stadium on Campus.

Surely even Pitt administrators (and even Milo) will come to the same conclusion.

P.S. what true Pitt person wouldn’t want our own football stadium on campus. I don’t get it

Comment by Emel 12.29.12 @ 11:57 pm

By the way, despite the perceptions… NOBODY in the Big 12 has larger than a 60K stadium other than….

Texas(100K) & Oklahoma (82K).

So Pitt has drawn over 63K several times at Heinz, we have nothing to be ashamed about. 63K in a world class city like Pittsburgh, with all the things the city has to offer is quite incredible. When Syracuse plays in NYC they’re lucky to draw 30K.

There’s only a very few spots on planet Earth that they can find over 100,000 zombies to pack places like Ann Arbor & Creepy Valley.

And in Creepy Valley it’s either go to the game with all the other Zombies or troll shower rooms and boys clubs for that certain someone.. special.

Comment by Emel 12.30.12 @ 12:07 am

Speaking of NYC, the toothless ones took it on the chin tonight.

Nice ending for Gino who proved he can’t play in a cold weather city, talk about a fall from the Heisman heavens. Must be one of the all-time Heisman flops after the Sept & Oct buildup.
Maybe he was on crack, lol

The campers are not happy in Morganhole for they couldn’t ignite any couches tonight after that beatdown by Syracuse. 38-14 ouch

Lots of wife(gf) beatings and a Holgy bender is in the air.

Comment by Emel 12.30.12 @ 12:18 am

You mean lots of first cousin beatings in Morganhole.

Comment by PittStadiumShuffle 12.30.12 @ 12:29 am

I have to say that I don’t feel the same going back to campus for games when there is no stadium on campus. I feel like there’s little reason to stay in Oakland. And, that makes me feel disconnected…not good for alums.

Comment by panther94 12.30.12 @ 12:44 am

About T. Boone Pickins, Pitt recieved a $125 million from William Deitrict. However it wasn’t designated for athletics or a stadium. I’m sure Pickens’ money was ear-marked for the specific initiatives concerening Cowboy atheletics that he wanted to see upgraded.

It was nice seeing the West Virginia Mountaineers get their butts wipped in te Pinstripe Bowl.

Comment by Justinian 12.30.12 @ 5:31 am

Looking down on the proposed Pitt stadium site from the Cathedral of Learning.

link to

Comment by PittofDreams 12.30.12 @ 7:36 am

An idea of what the view would be looking up at the Cathedral of Learning during a night game played at the proposed new Pitt Stadium.

link to

Comment by PittofDreams 12.30.12 @ 7:41 am

Pitt lost a great deal by going off campus to play football. Having our own on campus stadium added a “big time” feel to the campus atomsphere. I’d love to see Pitt build another on campus stadium and I’m sure it would help recruiting. Being a native of Philly, I can’t help but feel that using a public stadium gives us a transient, commuter school feel, like the vibe given by Temple. I’d much rather return to campus to see Pitt at the old Pitt Stadium than see a game at the new, hyper comericialized Heinz Field.

Comment by Rich CAS 1970 12.30.12 @ 8:26 am

The Hoopies didn’t want to play Pitt. I think they are regretting that decision after being spanked by the Cuse. Syracuse has WVU’s number.

The Ville beat Kentucky.

Future ACC teams looking good so far. Let’s hope Pitt steps up.

I looked at satellite views for the stadium land and it does appear you can wedge it between frick and katz. You may need to buy out some buildings and homes in panther hollow but wouldn’t be many.

Posvar doesn’t have to be razed although that bunker is ugly.

Comment by TX Panther 12.30.12 @ 8:31 am

Hey say it enough time and maybe it will become true….reality is though it won’t happen in next 30 to 40 years…(probably never but I never say never.)
I could argue all your points on why it wouldn’t happen (most I already have but you’ve chosen to ignore them…but I’ll just pick one more since I have a minute..If you know the current state of public transportation in Allegheny county (and believe me I do), the current governor, and the backlash there was for the North Shore connector for the T you would know there is no way any politician is going push to get the T to Oakland..especially for a football stadium for University of Pittsburgh.

Comment by milobloom 12.30.12 @ 8:46 am

Pickens donated money for the construction of an athletic village, the stadium is named after him and 66 percent of his money has gone towards athletics according to wikipedia. He is Okie States sugar daddy.

We need some money to start flowing to sports. There should be a good balance between sports and academics. And yes I would argue more to academics but I just don’t see the money going to the sports side. Appears most of that money was saved when Pitt decided to rent Heinz. And look at how long it took to raise funds for the new athletic fields. That’s why there needs to be some big money boosters supporting this initiative and Stevie can’t be the one leading the charge. New era with ACC. Interest rates at all time lows. Coming out of recession. Support will climb as Pitt wins. Steelers will quickly become the Bungels of the division…the bad Cincy teams of past. Heinz might not be so attractive to recruits after all.

Comment by TX Panther 12.30.12 @ 8:51 am

Milobloom, it wouldn’t be just a sports stadium. It would be a place where people worked, lived and played. It would serve more than one purpose unlike heinz. It would be a focal point of the neighborhood with 24/7 activity. It would allow the city to raise tax revenue and fees.

I would like to hear your arguements against

The mass transit is the biggest hurdle to me.

Comment by TX Panther 12.30.12 @ 8:58 am

My cheap solution to transit is park n rides located on the north shore and on the parkway near bates. Have fans park and take a shuttle in. That’s if you don’t want to mess with parking in oakland. However there is more parking now in oakland than the old Pitt stadium days if I’m not mistaken. Plenty of parking garages now. But I know that getting in and out is the issue due to traffic congestion. Hence my park n ride solution.

Tailgating spots would be limited but Pitts bars would benefit and I would rather give money to an Oakland bar than a chain on the north shore.

Comment by TX Panther 12.30.12 @ 9:13 am

here is the latest from Tyler Boyd taken from an interview with Kevin Gorman in today’s Trib:
I‘m not sure. It‘s Pitt, Michigan State, Rutgers, Tennessee and West Virginia. That‘s it. Penn State would be sixth. I‘ve got kind of an idea where I want to go, but I want to see what else happens, which new schools I get offers from
not sure if this is good or bad

Comment by wbb 12.30.12 @ 9:27 am

I think UPMC should built a state-of-the-art trauma center in Oakland and attach a stadium where it immediately attends to player’s injuries: Freddie Fu Field at Non-Profit Stadium

Comment by wbb 12.30.12 @ 9:34 am

It would be alearning hospital/trauma center of course

Comment by wbb 12.30.12 @ 9:36 am

In honor of all of this Pitt Stadium discussion, check out this YouTube video of the Bob Hope All American teams from 1977-1981. Brzoza, Jury, May, Green, Sunseri, Dawkins….love the nostalgia.

link to

Comment by Outlaw 12.30.12 @ 9:43 am

The easiest decision ever. That piece of trash golf course should be demolished. That is the worst course I ever saw. Solution….and easy access.

Comment by Upittbaseball 12.30.12 @ 10:00 am

I’ll second the the demo of the golf course. I’m a non golfer anyway. Shenley Park would be a perfect location. There certainly isn’t a shortage of golf courses in the Pittsburgh area.

Comment by Justinian 12.30.12 @ 10:37 am

I think it’s a little redemption that WVU switches conferences and gets to play a BE team in a bowl and gets blown out. Pitt gets to play an SEC team as it’s transistion game to the ACC.

Comment by markp 12.30.12 @ 10:51 am

Watch the season ticket sales in Morganhole drop.
Too bad; that 70-63 game was the worst thing that could have happened to them.
Well, the worst thing that could have happened is just starting to take hold. They are a million miles from everywhere.

Comment by SFPitt 12.30.12 @ 10:57 am

You barely have room for a stadium and now you want to turn it into a small city..Oakland has a center it doesn’t need another one…good one on shuttling people to the game on buses from North Shore and taking over a public park that is on the National Register of Historic Places for a college football stadium (That’s sarcasm).isn’t the busing issue what you were arguing about that was bad for the students in don’t need to reply… this is my last post on the subject.

Comment by milo bloom 12.30.12 @ 10:59 am

Students are lazy. They won’t take a shuttle but they will walk a few blocks. Adults wouldn’t mind the shuttle option if you didn’t want to deal with the traffic getting in and out. Again that was the cheap and very workable solution. Don’t equate students with adults. I am no fan of the schenley option despite the eye sore of a golf course. In my opinion, green space is valuable and that concept is too far removed from campus. Oakland can never have enough focal points and places of activity. The land there is unused currently. It helps develop the lower end of campus. Development is good. Adding a bit more density to an urban envrironment is inevitable.

Comment by TX Panther 12.30.12 @ 11:12 am

Nothing new in Birch’s game. Offensively, Pitt is much better off without him. Pitt needs scoring from the four. Birch would provide very little.

It does look like birch is a four year player and by his senior year could be very good.

Very disappointed that Gilbert is leaving. Jamie could have turned him into a decent player, defender, rebounder in a few years. You can’t teach 6’11 and athletic. Adams better stay 1 more year or Pitt is going to be really small next year.

Comment by Boubacar Aw 12.30.12 @ 11:34 am

The losses of Gilbert and Birch are going to hurt two years from now when both would be starters and key contributors. Now Dixon better recruit another big who is ready now and hope that Adams stays AND Young develops very quickly. That’s a lot of “ifs”.

Comment by Boubacar Aw 12.30.12 @ 11:47 am


No offense, but if everyone thought like you, we’d still be waiting for America to be discovered!

Comment by PittofDreams 12.30.12 @ 12:19 pm

Nothing wrong with hoping! Indulge those of us that would like to see the team play in an on campus facility again. If nothing else, we have had an entertaining topic to discuss while waiting for the upcoming games.

From the way your posts sound Milo, are you sure you aren’t really Steve Pederson? (That’s sarcasm)

Comment by Outlaw 12.30.12 @ 12:33 pm

@ milo bloom, a debate based on logic and supported by practical premises is a hopelessly flawed endeavor when the opposing viewpoint is based on emotional sedimental fantasy. My suggestion would be to compromise and agree with those who hold an opposing concept, that it would be a fantastic accomplishment to have an on campus stadium constructed in the near future. Then simply agree not to be a detractor in that process, nor to invalidate the efforts of those who would commit to making it become reality.

Comment by Dr. Tom 12.30.12 @ 12:43 pm

PittofDreams, if everyone thought like you, we’d be giving up a 20% increase in attendance (according to your own numbers) to fulfill some romantice fantasy of a few.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 12.30.12 @ 1:18 pm

For those who missed why we got into stadium talk.. Here’s the link again:

link to

I also added a commments/messageboard section so the conversation can continue or die on it’s own. Not trying to steal any of Chas’s thunder (I’m only a small dark cloud), but would like to keep the conversation going without hijacking The Blather.

Comment by CompLit 12.30.12 @ 2:30 pm

Marcus of Schamburg…

First of all, be original.

Second… who is contending that a new as in NEW Pit Stadium as conceived by CompLit and others here would draw only as well as the OLD Pitt Stadium.

I can understand why you came to milobloom’s defense.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.30.12 @ 5:50 pm

PittofDreams, Milo didn’t need any defense, but don’t let his fact get in the way of a good pipe dream.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 12.30.12 @ 9:02 pm


Then why did you do it. Your response here fits with what appears to be your personal challenge in making a convincing argument.

Still waiting for something of substance rather than simple generalties. (See Dr. Tom above)

Comment by PittofDreams 12.31.12 @ 12:36 am

Very simple solution to the space problem, Old Pitt Stadium was an oval design. Oval designs require more space.

New Pitt Stadium could be a rectangular design like Heinz Field and most new football stadiums these days.

You build up, not out, thereby making a pit at PITT.

That design could make a very advantageous home field and most importantly be built in a smaller footprint. Also if you start off with say 50K seats, thereby limiting supply, PITT gets much better, ie. like the bball team, demand increases, necessitating a stadium addition of seating (L-Ville & Rutgers just went thru this)at some point in the future.
So the design concept must incorporate the idea of building additional seating fairly easily.

@CompLit. Can you give us an idea of how a rectangular stadium fits in that area of Panther Hollow and Frick Fine Arts Bldg.? Perhaps the Bldg doesn’t have to be moved, existing housing purchased, streets rerouted. Or at least to a lesser extent.

Comment by Emel 12.31.12 @ 4:36 am

Here are some “rough” dimensions.

Heinz complete footprint 745′ x 745′
Heinz w/o upper deck 570′ x 640′
Pitt Stadium 617′ x 791′

Moving Frick over has width from Frick to Forbes Field Wall 530′ at 50 yd line width is at little over 600′

Distance from Schenley Fountain to Joncaire St. at Isis Way 640′

Just in case you were wondering about Joncaire:

Major Washington left Williamsburg the day after his appointment by Dinwiddie and headed for Fredricksburg and Winchester to get supplies. He appointed Jacob Van Braam as his French interpreter. Then he took the “new road” from Winchester to Cumberland following a northwest route that Gen. Braddock would make famous two years later. This took him through the northeast corner of Hampshire County crossing the Potomac at the Little Cacapon.

At Cumberland, Washington engaged Christopher Gist to be his chief guide. Again we see how the Ohio Company becomes engaged in politics as several of its members or employees end up in important jobs for the colony. He also hired Barnaby Currin, John MacQuire, Henry Steward, and William Jenkins to accompany him.

On the way Washington fulfilled two important duties assigned by Dinwiddie. First, he made every effort to gain the support of the Indians. He arrived at Logstown November 23rd to meet with the Half King and other leaders and he employed several as scouts and allies. Secondly, the Major took every opportunity to view the terrain and assess its military advantages. The Indians wanted a fort 3 miles downstream of the forks south of the Ohio, but the site did not please Washington as much as the forks did. He fully expected to return soon either with settlers or with soldiers. Winter was coming early, and the small band now including Half King and three other Iroquois quickly headed into the wilderness toward the French. The party arrived at Venango on December 4th. Washington took notes as the French and Indians became intoxicated a talked freely of their ability to descent the river in the spring and take possession of the entire valley. Joncaire was among the party, partially occupying Washington’s focus, as he kept the Indians interested in liquor and the benefits of the French. The party left Venango on the 7th and arrived at Fort Le Boeuf four days later.

Comment by CompLit 12.31.12 @ 9:39 am

Here’s a suggestion… rebuild a new better Frick at a separate location.

Why limit the potential of a New Pitt Stadium Plaza by feeling compelled to keep Frick at or near its current site?

Comment by PittofDreams 12.31.12 @ 10:04 am


you think republicans and democrats can’t get along? Try Art people and athletic people! Maybe the Frick Fine Arts could be rebuilt as the Taj Mahal.

Comment by CompLit 12.31.12 @ 12:44 pm


I’m anxiously awaiting your first rendition of what that might look like.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.31.12 @ 5:13 pm

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