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December 14, 2012

Overall, I take no joy in seeing the Big East reach the long, inevitable, break that has been predicted for years. I thought it would happen by 2010, so I don’t claim any special foresight (hell, I never expected the expansiopocolypse to go further than 12 teams in each major conference).

The Big East was founded on 3 basic principles: self-preservation, money and basketball. Today you can still argue that the BE is maintaining the principles of self-preservation and money. Basketball is just along for the ride.

I wrote that eight years ago. The self-preservation was against the growing power of football schools, and the diminishing power of basketball-only schools. The Big East basketball schools finally snapped. They were sick of basketball being along for the ride. They wanted their power back. Even if their fiefdom is significantly smaller. Even if they make less money. They wanted to feel like they were in control once more. (I thought about using the Milton quote from Satan of “Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven” until I realized that, at best the Big East was more like Purgatory.)

The thing to realize, is that like most of expansiopocolypse, there is going to be a lag time.

According to the source, there is a lot of interpretation regarding exit fees, the waiting period, and on who gets the “Big East” name and Madison Square Garden for a conference basketball tournament.

Because the seven schools are leaving as a group, they can use a league clause that eliminates the exit fee for a collective departure, a source told ESPN. However, the schools would have to honor the league’s requirement to provide 27 months notice.

The seven schools could negotiate an earlier exit, but the Big East would undoubtedly require some sort of financial compensation.

As if the seven basketball schools have extra money to toss around.

So as bittersweetly awesome (not to mention the storylines) as it may have been for the Big East Tournament to truly be the final go round at Madison Square Garden, they will probably limp through at least one more.

There are going to be a lot. I mean a lot of lawsuits before this is over. If I’m the Big East I stick all the exit fees and payments from the NCAA Tournament in an escrow account now. It’s not like anyone is going to be able to touch them for a while.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Pitt and Syracuse (Along with Rutgers and Louisville. Okay, another Rutgers lawsuit.) eventually file new suits over the exit fees they have already paid and are still scheduled to pay. Messy and dragged out.

So let’s look at some of the pixels spilled over this. Jeff Jacobs at the Hartford Courant vents his spleen. Enjoyable read overall. His ranting about the missed opportunities of the football side of the Big East deserves more background.

This day was coming for a long time. Everybody knew it. Everybody smelled it. Since the Big East presidents made the monumentally stupid decision to turn down a request from Penn State to join the Big East in 1989, the Naismith-centric schools made it clear where they stood. Guess who led the fight against Penn State? Georgetown. St. John’s. Villanova.

Penn State didn’t ask to join in 1989. They made their last bid in 1984.

They gave in to allow football in 1991 to save the conference from splitting, yet there were the hoopsters again in 1994. It took a UConn-brokered compromise to get Rutgers and West Virginia, then football schools, in as full members. The vote was 7-3. Against it? Georgetown. Seton Hall. Providence. At that point the football schools had just signed a five-year, $65 million contract with CBS and were considering leaving.

Somewhere along the line those football schools should have said, we have the money, we have the power. Instead, they kept on giving in to a fragmented, antiquated Austo-Hungarian Empire of a sports league. They should have banded together and left. They should have gotten a commissioner who was fighting entirely for them. They didn’t.

On July 9, 2003 in Newark the six remaining football schools went so far as to vote unanimously to accept a recommendation from their athletic directors that an eight- or nine-school all-sports conference be established. The minutes of that meeting show the following was drafted: “We as a group genuinely believe that the breakup of the Big East Conference is inevitable and probably the best overall scenario for all parties concerned.” Bingo. They even talked about approaching Penn State again. Miami and Virginia Tech were gone to the ACC. Boston College was still in the room and Father Leahy later expressed consternation that he found out within a few weeks other presidents were no longer committed to the plan. BC left. In came five schools, including DePaul and Marquette who tip the balance of power in 2012.

First of all, BC was gone no matter what. Even if the Big East did split, BC would have been out the door to the ACC no matter what.

As to why they didn’t split. That’s an easy answer: Mike Tranghese.

First, and foremost, Mike Tranghese, the BE Commissioner and in 2003, the guy who had just come off a stint as the mouthpiece for defending the BCS said he wouldn’t serve as commissioner of either part of a split Big East.

This boxed in the football-playing BE teams. They needed Tranghese and his personal ties to other BCS conference commissioners to help keep them in the BCS with an automatic bid. The other conferences could boot the BE easily enough if they hadn’t dealt with the commissioner, but not if he was one of them. A guy who helped defend their little system.

Tranghese was making one last play to protect his school (Providence) and the basketball only programs. The basketball schools had been in a down period, as the balance of basketball power had clearly shifted away from the likes of Seton Hall, St. John’s, Villanova and Georgetown in the Big East. The power was with UConn, Syracuse, Pitt and even BC. At best, the basketball only schools didn’t look much stronger than the Atlantic 10. The basketball schools needed to keep their association with the stronger members of the Big East.

So the only way to keep Tranghese and his connections was to remain in the BE with basketball only schools. At least for the short term. The b-ball schools weren’t going to let themselves be put in an overwhelming minority position, since it was clear that sooner or later the BE football teams would split off. That is why, rather than look to replace Miami, VT and BC with Louisville, Cinci and USF; you had the Big East add 2 basketball only schools as well.

The BCS agreements were not yet formalized to the point where they had the standards set to allow the Big East to maintain an automatic BCS bid

I will say, if the Big East basketball schools thought there would be more of the Dana O’Neil soft treatment of their long-suffering status, they will find few takers. Instead, there’s reality.

Many have suggested these basketball schools have been mistreated for years as the league twisted itself in various directions to invent and then support and then attempt to maintain football competition within the league.

The truth is that ever since football was introduced in the Big East, the basketball-firsters have benefited from the relative largesse it provided. They had money from television and political power within the NCAA structure they would not have possessed if not connected to high-level football.

In the last TV contract the Big East Basketball schools got over $1.5 million/year per team. The A-10′s newest deal delivers $350,000. That the Big East basketball schools believe that they and some mix that includes Butler, Xavier, and whoever else (St. Louis? Creighton? Dayton?…)  to put them at either 10 or 12 would closer to the Big East number rather than the A-10 number is laughable. Between small alumni bases and dead weight (Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul), they don’t stand a great chance.

Do they really think ESPN is going to keep them on that prime Big Monday slot? Do they really think ESPN will give them a good contract?

Heck, recruiting is about to get a whole lot tougher for the Big East basketball schools.

Look at the schools leaving. All are non-football schools, obviously, and Georgetown and Marquette are the only ones that seem to be consistent NCAA tournament teams going forward. The other five teams were among the seven-worst teams in the Big East last season. Moreover, those five teams were picked among the bottom six in this year’s preseason poll.

Those schools could still recruit at a high level, though, with the promise that prospects would be playing in arguably the best league in the country. It was a high-major league by all definitions, and each school could count itself as a high-major team.

In the new league, can they still market themselves as high-major schools? It’s going to be really difficult for the lower high-majors (DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence) who no longer have an illustrious conference to sell.

If those programs had it rough getting kids when they got the competition and exposure of the Big East, how will it work out when they are showing the games on CBS College Sports or the NBC Sports Channels? Recruiting is still the lifeblood of the programs. They have to worry.

As does the A-10.

It was a good PR move by the A-10 to float the idea of inviting the Big East Seven to join the league as a 21-team conglomeration, but the reality is the breakaway schools were never going to cede that control. Instead the Atlantic 10 is likely going to lose some of its flagship programs to the Big East Seven, with Xavier being a near-lock and Dayton and Butler also looking like strong possibilities. Losses like those would not be easy for the Atlantic 10 to replace. It can still be a multi-bid league in that scenario like the WCC for example, but the days of 3 to 5 NCAA bids each year would almost certainly be over.

Ultimately the Big East died from the same things it was founded on: Fear and resentment of football schools coupled with greed.

Addendum: Just came across two more pieces worth noting.

Marquette’s been spouting off just a bit these days. Their AD went on the radio to rip the Tulane move (not one that impressed me, admittedly) but he basically trashed a school that regularly beat them in the C-USA days. Basically used Tulane as a strawman for all their bitching as this story really makes clear.

The fact that the league is being formed to feature men’s basketball thrills Marquette officials. Since joining the Big East in 2005, Marquette believes it has compromised on its lead sport to accommodate the football wishes of the Big East. But as the Big East struggled to survive by clinging to football, it alienated its seven remaining basketball-first members.

[Emphasis added.]

Seriously, Marquette? Seriously? Feeling your oats these days, huh? That’s some first class arrogance coming from a quarter I never expected. News flash for for the Gold, you were invited to the Big East solely to keep the basketball side placated when the Big East had to expand to, you know, accommodate football. You wouldn’t be in the Big East. Tom Crean would have left a lot sooner. You would be fighting to be Xavier if not for the Big East. If not for the need to accommodate football.

Hell, you were nothing more than teams put in the conference to give the old guard an out.

Pitt coach Jamie Dixon also said on the same podcast that he was told the reason Marquette and DePaul were added 10 years ago was to ensure the five Catholic schools had seven members to retain an NCAA bid if they decided to leave. He said the eventual split of football and non-football was always inevitable, and may have actually happened later than predicted.

 

 





Butler is not a Catholic institution. If you have not dealt with management among male RC clerics, Jesuits being no exception, then you are in for un unwelcome surprise.
I agree that litigation will tie this up for a long time, but I hope Pitt has not mailed its last check.
As for their new confernce, leaving out St.Joe’s, LaSalle, Duquesne, Fordham and extending as far west as St. Louis does not pass my smell test.
G’Town, St Johns, Shall, Marq. DePaul, Prov, Nova, La Salle, St. Joe’s, Duquesne, X, Fordham & St. Louis brings some big markets.
You must get all the Philly & NY schools to ensure those markets.
Thank God I was taught by nuns. Sure, they hit hard but their love was genuine and they are far better business people. Ever see a hospital run by priests? Me either.

Comment by sfpitt 12.14.12 @ 7:19 am

When I first read Dana O’Neil’s analysis, my teeth started to hurt from the inches thick sugar coating of the basketball onlies perspective. I disagree with nearly all of her arguments and conclusions.

Once Penn State decided to capitulate to the conference model and chose to throw in with the other rust belt ag schools, the writing was on the wall that the former Eastern Independent football programs and the significant Catholic basketball programs needed forward thinking strong leadership. All of those institutions, with multiple needs, strengths and weaknesses needed strong leadership that was able to put equal emphasis on their divergent concerns.

Instead, what the Big East offered was myopic leadership passed down from Providence generation to Providence generation to Providence generation. Shame on the all sports schools for not demanding a more significant voice in leadership when Dave Gavitt retired. Shame on Mike Tranghese for selling “stability” through smoke and mirrors and never addressing the Catholic schools reticence to view the larger landscape of major college athletics while smiling and cashing every check delivered by football.

I will always have many fond memories of the Big East. I can remember, as a kid, going to the Eastern 8 basketball championships at the Civic Arena playing St. Bonaventure and then BOOM all of the sudden we were in the Big East playing the likes of Georgetown, Syracuse and St. Johns. It was awesome. But, like many great concepts, it is no longer viable and will go the way of giant tube TVs and Polaroid cameras.

Comment by ECH 12.14.12 @ 7:20 am

One other thing…in this era of a la carte conference shuffling, my pie in the sky dream would be to see the ACC get Navy for football and Georgetown for basketball and then lock the door. The Navy/GTown combination more than backfills the loss of Maryland, and gives Notre Dame two more “peer” institutions to tie on to permanently.

Just a thought.

Comment by ECH 12.14.12 @ 8:40 am

I BELIEVE nd 12-0 seaon has hurt acc chances of sticking.

Comment by paul shannon 12.14.12 @ 9:02 am

Chas what i think is a more intresting qustion
is will the 12 football schools stick together
or even 10 of them if they do i think the BB schools will be the ones who are screwed.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 9:26 am

IMHO, the biggest loser at this moment is UConn. Their men’s and women’s hoops programs (most particularly the latter) may wind up destroyed as power programs.

Comment by pitt1972 12.14.12 @ 9:31 am

Good analysis. A lot of background comes out when big changes happen.

I think the ACC has to do something NOW to avoid becoming the next BE, I mean ND.

Comment by frank MD 12.14.12 @ 9:40 am

For all you Script lovers. Seems Jo Jo Kemp has beaten Pitt administrators to the punch!

link to mobile.twitter.com

Comment by PittofDreams 12.14.12 @ 10:01 am

Well if this happens as fast as some are saying
then Lville will be in the ACC the same year that pitt will .

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 10:21 am

PittofDreams, yeah i saw that.

I also saw on his twitter feed that him and shady were having a little conversation so hopefully he will end up a panther

I watched his highlight film and the dude is FAST

Comment by rhyno527 12.14.12 @ 10:27 am

just a thought on recruiting.

there might not be a big east football conference
things are up in the air.

it would be a good time to pick off there commits
in football you know they have to be worryed
come to pitt we are in the ACC your school
well who knows were they will be.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 10:45 am

I’m a Catholic NYHomer who’s family mostly went to St. John’s and Fordham, most of my friends went to Fordham, Villanova, and Seton Hall. I chose Pitt, as my parents felt I needed to leave the NY/NJ area, after a fun night while visiting, at CJ Barney’s.

I picked to stay in New York this March, and go to the Big East Tournament instead of SXSW for work: I’m really happy about that decision now. I’m just so happy that we’re headed for the ACC and that we’re not UConn.

Comment by Laura 12.14.12 @ 11:09 am

Chas, Terrific work. I especially appreciated the chronology of events as they went down over the years, from the rejection of Penn State by Providence guys and the football expansion after the first ACC raid where they added 2 basketbal only schools to placate the basketball schools. The amazing thing to me is that everyone went along and allowed Providence, a weak program that offered little, to call the shots. At Least in the Big 12, I can understaand Texas’s power, Texas has had success, a large TV market and a big following.

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 11:26 am

frankcan love how you pounce on the competitions struggles to our benefit.Boy is college football dog eat dog. Remember when parents wanted the kids to get involved in sports to teach character.Now it’s screw the other guy before he gets you. We were really suckers back then,but it felt better somehow.

Comment by spiritofsection22 12.14.12 @ 11:28 am

@Pitt of Dreams / rhyno. I don’t think we can call this a soft verbal. How about a kick-a$$ visual. Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Atlanta Panther 12.14.12 @ 11:31 am

How about the example that the university presidents are making? They’re a greedy bunch.

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 11:33 am

i think nd should join the catholic basketball schools,they are perfect ,play any football schedule they want,they will not hesitate to let the acc go down,

Comment by paul shannon 12.14.12 @ 11:49 am

spiritof most times i wouldent think of it but after wisconsin took cory clement are 4 star RB.
i thought we should play the game also.
remmber do unto outhers as they do to you.
and in this day and age pitt is what counts the
most .
if the big east is falling apart lets help the kids to come to a good school pitt.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 11:53 am

info for you DE T J Clemmings will move to OT
for next year he is working there now for the bowl game

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 12:01 pm

Hey, Any word on the Pitt recruiting scene?

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 12:08 pm

Notre Dame is like the beautiful girl, who just wants to be friends.

Adds some fluff for your ego, but thats about it.

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 12:10 pm

more thoughts on recruting i just checked the
BIG EAST schools not all the BB recruits have signed there loi maybe pitt would like to call some of the 4 star player and say .

come to pitt your conference is falling apart
will be in the ACC if you stay with your school you dont know were you will end up.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 12:19 pm

Good article by Dana at ESPN. Add Duquesne, and 4 others and go for new BB conference. ESPN needs winter BB programming.

Comment by frank MD 12.14.12 @ 12:26 pm

BB schools on there own tv contract will pay 300,000 or 400,000 per year per team dumb move to leave the football schools were they get 1,400,000
peryear per school.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 12:41 pm

Thanks for the update Frank. Clemmings seems to fit the profile of a Paul Chryst Offensive Tackle at 6’6″ 290. Probably safe to say he’s got some athleticism as well. Was the #1 recruit in New Jersey. Hopefully he’s a fast learner. HTP

Comment by Atlanta Panther 12.14.12 @ 1:40 pm

ATLANTA PANTHER clemmings says he thinks he fits better at OT he says it feels good he likes the switch and it was up to him he was not forced to
do it.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 1:45 pm

So let me get this straight. The A10 pays its schools $350K per team per year. The current BE deal pays its basketball only schools 1.6M per year. The proposed BE media deal (prior to PITT and SU leaving) would have paid the basketball schools 2.4M per year.

And you have Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns and Depaul (the bottom feeders of the BE) trying to wag the dog? I fully understand why BC, Miami, Vtech…Pitt, Syracuse…WVU…ND…Rutger have decided to leave. Damn Basketball only schools are full of themselves!

Comment by Pitt fan in Atlanta 12.14.12 @ 1:47 pm

The ACC is up next for destruction.

Comment by Chris 12.14.12 @ 1:48 pm

Funny thing this BB school move. I think that this one is truly driven by economics. I wonder if the BB schools have run the numbers and determined that $1.4 million of gross revenue is not as valuable on a net basis after paying all the expenses necessary to send the BB teams and all the olympic sports all over kingdom come. Can’t get to Louisiana, Calif, and Idaho by bus and these are definitely expensive destinations as they are not generally in major cities. Paying for baseball and lacrosse teams to go to these places is ridiculous.
Besides, power is a nice thing and I’m sure they will be the kings of their miniature domain.

Comment by Taxing Matters 12.14.12 @ 1:51 pm

Chris,
Totally agree. If ACC (ie Swafford) does not make a bold and critical move soon to solidify the revenue and football strength of the conference, the ACC is one major defection from a crumbling house of cards.
My move would be to renege on the ND deal tomorrow and tell them . . . all in or get out. Let them sue but in the meantime the BB team has no where to go.

Comment by Taxing Matters 12.14.12 @ 2:05 pm

@Chris and Taxing Matters. Without question, you are correct.

If it was up to me, I’d just like to sweep everything up and tuck it under my pillow too.

Not chicken little, but there is a big matzah ball hanging around our ACC’s neck.

ND move at the time, made us feel good I guess.

Adds absolutely nothing as far as protecting the conference from getting split up.

Again, not chicken little. I’m hoping Swofford and Company has things on the burner as we speak and are talking to people.

Sincerely, I love us being the ACC, pro ACC move from the beginning.

I fear Big East 2.0.

Or should I say, about Big East 7.5 by now.

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 2:26 pm

Adding ND w/o football, that is.

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 2:27 pm

Understand from Dokish that a Pitt fan actually sent out the “Back to the Script” photo to Kemp and some other recruits.

Still got to like the fact that he put it to use.

Must have gotten that all-important phone call from Tony D.

Comment by PittofDreams 12.14.12 @ 3:06 pm

Calling all lawyers.

Just for kicks. The one saving grace, is that the Big 12 is still an unstable entity.

If they all go in too 16, the old Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St to the Pac 12 is still always hanging out there.

People say, well, they all signed off on the tv grant of rights, so, thats concrete.

My question to the lawyers on here:

If people can sue, to get out of 10, 20, 25, 50 million exit penalties, and things get lawyered down to an agreeable fee………

why couldn’t someone sue to get out of the grant of rights clause in a contract???

What is the difference?? Is there a difference??

Why couldn’t that get taken to court??

Just curious.

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 3:07 pm

Anything is negotiable, without reviewing the contract who knows, but as my old corporate law school professor Branson would say, “unless there are machine gun posts on the court room steps you can file a lawsuit.”

Comment by Marco 12.14.12 @ 3:17 pm

Man what a great week it would be if we landed Kemp, Foster and two O-Linemen by the 21st.

Comment by Atlanta Panther 12.14.12 @ 4:01 pm

DAN clad you are onthe post i want to ask something that no one wants to post on i dont know why.

it seams to me that this is more intresting then the 7 BB SCHOOLS.

What do you think the 12 football schools do
do they stick together and form a new conference

i cant see were else they can go if they do they will still get at least 6 million per school and they wont have to share with the BB SCHOOLS NOW.

and if they dont have at least 8 schools then there is no conference.

i wonder what happens to them if they dont do they become indepent.

this seams a more intresting question than the 7 BB schools who may or may not get outher BB schools to join them.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 4:01 pm

Off topic, but Go Clairton, 62 in a row. Nice if we get three of them. Real skilled players. One has a 4.0 and is class president.

Comment by gc 12.14.12 @ 4:05 pm

Dan I agree. The Big 12 is just as vulnerable as the ACC because if the PAC 12 want to go to 16, there is only one place they can go for decent size TV markets and that is the Big 12. That will leave the 6 teams left in the Big 12 plus a few ACC teams in the mix to fill out the 4 spots total to get the BIG and the SEC to 16 teams. I think Kansas and K State get two of the spots. WVU gets one or replaces an ACC loss. I really think the Big 12 is in a more precarious spot than the ACC at this time.

Comment by HbgFrank 12.14.12 @ 4:05 pm

How about the example that the university presidents are making? They’re a greedy bunch.

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 11:33 am

This is spot on and the root of the problem.
Both in college sports and also our economic problems. Gordon Gekko was wrong !

Comment by Emel 12.14.12 @ 4:11 pm

@HbgFRank

Yes that’s what I thought as well and posted as much, but I forgot about the Big 12 schools “signing away” or as they call it, a Grant of Rights of all their Tier 1 & Tier 2 TV rights for the next 13 years.

That pretty much solidifies the Big 12 one would imagine. ACC needs to do the same.

Comment by Emel 12.14.12 @ 4:17 pm

Ya FRANKCAN, me too. I always thought posts tend to go their own way. Sometimes you post something not related, and it picks up speed and becomes something different. Sometimes people gloss over and move on.

I could talk about either, but I’ve been posting lately about ND. Some have added, some skip over, no worries. I do the same.

My feeling on the BB schools. In my world, I think I’d like to see the 7 of them go after the other 5, 6 or 7 Catholic schools, including Duquesne. Would be a great league, with a lot of commonality to it.

As for BE football. Interesting. Do they hang together, or does each try to land in more of a geographical fit, like Conf. USA or MAC..

Ya, UCONN, (and I take no joy in this what so ever), looks to be really screwed. It could have been us!!!! And, it still could be down the road.

The geography, I would think, is going to have to come back into play for these teams.

For the power conferences, maybe the travel is an irritant, an expensive one, but, none the less, something that just has to be dealt with.

For these schools that don’t have money spilling over, sending your gymnastics team to Tulane and SMU from Storrs, or Temple sending their softball team to SMU??? I gotta believe the expense of geography is going to come full circle, and be in play again.

The funny thing is, if the 12 football schools could stay together, it really wouldn’t be that bad. If you remember, we use to talk about adding Houston and SMU and others before we left.

Could they do a football only as a conference?? Kind of a reverse of things.

I wish it would all just end, get everyone in their seat, and be good for 20 years.

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 4:24 pm

On college TV contracts – are Comcast, NBC, MASN (DC/Balt area) and other regional TV networks ready to push up the price bidding maybe even over ESPN. I doubt it because there are only so many TV eyeballs that will watch the games.

It is time for the FCC and cable companies to implement ala carte selection of channels. B10 channel then takes a BIG hit.

Comment by frank MD 12.14.12 @ 4:24 pm

The big 12 will not brake up as long as the big 12 has all the second ter tv rights.

the acc is not in danger even if they lost another team which they wont.

the big 10 is done expanding .

the pac 12 wont move east if they ever expand.

so lets deal with what happens in the big east

quseton 1 do the 7 BB schools get any one to join them to make a 10 team leage maybe maybe not 4 of the 7 suck at BB as of now i cant see them geting more than 400.000 per year per school from tv.

QUSTION 2 do at least 10 of the football schools stick togther and form a new conference
if they do they will most likley get 6 millon per year per team from tv.

and if they dont stay tother then what.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 4:26 pm

Hey EMEL!! That’s why I was asking that question.

The “grant of rights”. Does that really cement the conference. If they go to 16, and the Pac 12 allows Texas to take their Longhorn network, the other three would follow. Boom, 16.

Couldn’t Texas and the 3, just as easily sue to get out of the “grant of rights”, as anyone else would sue to get their exit fee penalty down??

How concrete is it really?? I don’t know, I’m just asking.

In this day and age, seems like everything can be bought, or in this case, bought out of.

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 4:30 pm

Emel, We great minds think alike.

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 4:30 pm

If there is no Big 12 conference what/who is left to enforce it’s agreements. What if they have the same provision as the BE rhat if a “group” of schools leave then the normal rules don’t apply?

Comment by HbgFrank 12.14.12 @ 4:40 pm

lol Justinian

Certainly!

What does this teach kids in college, that people that supposedly stand for higher education(those being University Presidents), have their sports teams (women’s field hockey for instance) playing a half a continent away, all in the name of chasing the almighty buck.

Taking these road trips a half a continent away for these college sports teams will certainly mean they miss more and more class time and education time. Hey but who cares, we’re not in the education business anymore, it’s the football business and the college loan business.

And there will be many restaurant jobs or vender jobs at the various football stadiums when the kids get their liberal arts degrees.

Comment by Emel 12.14.12 @ 4:44 pm

Hey Dan-o

I guess no contract is ironclad anymore !

All Texas has to do is get the case heard in front of some Federal Judge that can be influenced.
Or maybe a Texas Law School grad. ;-)

It just makes it a little more messy and money will have to be exchanged. But Texas has gads of that.

Comment by Emel 12.14.12 @ 4:47 pm

Chaos reigns my brothers.

Comment by Emel 12.14.12 @ 4:49 pm

As far as the remnants of the BigEast and all those schools entering, exiting or in some other state of movement. lol

I mean how much is ESPN going to want to pay for games such as UConn vs Memphis in football.

Or UCF vs USF. Yea it will get a nice TV rating in Tampa & Orlando, by nobody across the country will even notice it’s on TV.

Or how about Temple vs Houston. I don’t think so.

Temple vs East Carolina. Most ppl even in North Carolina won’t even watch that.

How about East Carolina vs SMU. Won’t even get many in Dallas to watch.

How about Memphis vs Tulane. I doubt many in Memphis or New Orleans would even bother.

Memphis vs USF. Now there’s a classic
Memphis vs Temple. Won’t be a big draw in Philly.

Sorry even with Boise State this leagues TV rights wouldn’t be worth much imo. For even the schools in Big cities like Temple, Memphis, SMU, Houston, Cincy, UCF, USF, etc. don’t exactly get many eyeballs in their own cities.

At the most this is just C-USA money !

Comment by Emel 12.14.12 @ 5:02 pm

Did they ever redo the contract when ND came on?

Comment by Chris 12.14.12 @ 5:15 pm

Only way I see ESPN giving this conf any money is if it decides to start College Football Saturdays at 9am in the morning and need teams as program filler.

Sort of like Breakfast at Wimbledon.

Sort of.

Comment by Emel 12.14.12 @ 5:23 pm

@Chris, I don’t know. I don’t think I ever heard anything about it. I may be wrong. If it was, or will be, then that may be one thing.

Only thing I ever really heard, was, this will keep the conference together, ND has agree to play 4 or 5 ACC teams a year.

If someone knows more let us know. Maryland allready showed it could give a rats ass about playing ND once every 5 years.

Same will be with FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC ST, Va. Tech, any of them, if they would ever get an invite to the Big 10 or SEC.

I didn’t buy into the ND thing at first. Then after a couple days, and reading blogs and news articles and seeing things on tv, a lot of people were saying, “we’re saved, now the conference is secure”. I may have even said a few weeks later, “ya, ok, I guess we have ND, we’re ok”.

After looking back at it, what, what has ND done for the ACC???

Absolutely nothing. Because our womens softball will now play ND every year, we’re never gonna leave the ACC?? Mens swimming has a meet against ND every year, so, we’ll stay in the conf.

They being in for everything but football, will stop no one from leaving. No one.

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 5:31 pm

Unless Swofford has an ace up his sleeve, the only other thing I could think of, that Swofford could be relying on, would be….

We have ND for a 5 year contract. Grab them now, get them acclamated to the ACC, develop friendships and rivalries in all sports over the next 5 years, then at that time to renew……

tell them, sorry, we really need you all in an, and that includes football.

Banking on nowhere else to go at that time????

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 5:33 pm

@HbgFrank

You are correct sir.
I had no idea there was a clause in the BE contract about no exit fee’s if a Group of Schools leave.
I’m sure most didn’t.

Texas probably wrote some beneficial language in that Grant of Rights contract, since they were holding ‘all the cards’.

So while it may appear that that solidifies the Big 12. It might be all just an illusion.

But in today’s world it’s all about appearances.
And illusions ! (actually it’s always been that way even in ancient times) ;-)

@Chris One would think but I haven’t read anything suggesting it.

Comment by Emel 12.14.12 @ 5:33 pm

SI talks about NCAA Tourney payout “units” which determines how much prize money is paid out over a 6 year period. Why didn’t Pitt take their units with them to the ACC?? And if the BE dissolves, can Pitt reclaim these units??

Comment by Mtoolmn 12.14.12 @ 5:57 pm

pitt DC quits takes DC job at NCS i guess we dont
pay are asst coachs top dollar,

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 7:54 pm

Dave Huxtable has left pitt

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 7:55 pm

No tell me your kidding Frankcan. Where is this being reported?

Comment by Floyd 12.14.12 @ 8:05 pm

do you remmber when chryst had trouble hireing asst i think this proves what i thought pitt went cheap we dont pay top dollar why else leaxe after one year for the same job .
more money

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 8:08 pm

He did a great job. What is reason other than $$$?

Comment by frank MD 12.14.12 @ 8:15 pm

the story on graham will come out as asisitant money was cut, group soon to form of pitt alumini ,wanting to to head back to the script and traditions, acc ison the clock, not out of trouble by any means move coming.

Comment by paul shannon 12.14.12 @ 8:18 pm

,sofford is up lets hope he is capable of another surprise

Comment by paul shannon 12.14.12 @ 8:19 pm

who is are next DC will it be tom bradley.
here is the problem there were 23 coaching changes this year and they hired DC our will be that wont leave mutch to pick from.

and if we dont pay top money we will be haveing a hard time finding one so who tom bradley ?

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 8:34 pm

NCS also stole Wisconsin’s OC for their OC, so you do not have proof that Pitt is cheap with Assistants.

Also, browsing around, I see Fraud Graham has his Sun Bathers prepping to play Navy Midshipmen in the Hunger Bowl on 12/29. LOL………….

Comment by Mtoolmn 12.14.12 @ 8:40 pm

I am going to suggest who they hire to be the new defensive coordinator, but it would nice to see them hire someone who wants to be here in Pittsburgh. Huxtible had coached in the ACC before and he really had no ties to Pitt or the region. I thought he did a great job, but that apparently made him a more attractive hire for other programs. They need to get someone who wants to be here.

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 8:51 pm

I meant to say I’m not going to suggest who they hire.

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 8:53 pm

MTOOLMN no proof but the AD at wisconsin was charged bye there coach that just left on mike and mike tv show that wisconsin did not pay asst well.

and if you remmber chryst had a hard time hireing asst so i knind of belive were there is smoke there is fire.

that is what i belive why be a DC at another school when you are all ready a DC EXCEPT MORE MONEY

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 8:54 pm

DAN EMel what do you think tom bradley he would recruit well in eastern pa and NJ, and he is a good DC.
he was never charged with ant thing and the penn state coach that is at penn state now kept 2 of joe pa coachs and that is not hurting him.

and at his age he would not be looking to go any were else and he lives in pittsburgh.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 9:11 pm

Bradley is fine by me.
Assistant coaches move, especially early on. Chryst has not been here long enough to have clout.
BUT, if script comes back, what will losses be blamed on?

Comment by SFPitt 12.14.12 @ 9:23 pm

Anyone have inside subs to scout?? There is an article saying TJ clemmings is moving to offense starting with the bowl game…interesting but unfortunately the title is ll non subs can see

Comment by Bcpitt 12.14.12 @ 9:29 pm

EMel i just read a post on yard breaker
were they rated the QBthat are in the bowls this year.
there are 70 QB that were rated tino came it at number 40. i know you thought it would be number 70.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 9:31 pm

BCPITT THAT WAS POSTED ALLREADY.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 9:35 pm

I would be fine with Bradley as well. He’s a terrific recruiter and a good defensive coach. His players loved him and he’s well regarded everywhere in PA. He would definately make an immediate impact on recruiting trail.

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 10:03 pm

I have no problem with Tom Bradley. Good guy, great recruiter, no he wouldn’t be going anywhere, think he has a home in Pgh.

Has he been totally vetted from the situation completely??

If he’s in the clear, no problem.

Don’t want anything to come back on us.

In the clear, I think he could help Pitt tremendously.

Comment by Dan 12.14.12 @ 10:03 pm

Frankcan, I understand Doreen is very popular. Is it possible Huxtable left for FRIENDSHIP ??

Comment by Mtoolmn 12.14.12 @ 10:08 pm

Bradley smells from Paterno.

Comment by alcofan 12.14.12 @ 10:16 pm

Great article Chas….

“Ultimately the Big East died from the same things it was founded on: Fear and resentment of football schools coupled with greed.”

You left out stupidity…

Turning down Penn State? Looks like G’Town is getting what they deserve.

Comment by Jackagain 12.14.12 @ 10:20 pm

Larry Johnson was a member of the old Penn Staff and O’Brian chose to retain him. It’s pretty tough to keep a guy from ever working again, because he happened to be on the staff. Or because he was the interium head coach after Paterno was fired. He certainlly went after the Pitt job when he had the opportunity. At this point, I think he would love an opportunity to coach at Pitt. I’m sure Paul Chryst faced his defense, when he was the offensive coordinator at Wisconsin

Comment by Justinian 12.14.12 @ 10:28 pm

Justinian then it is done bradley for DC
it makes sense he lives in pgh.
he would recruit eastern pa and NJ and do it well
he was a good DC he is old enough that he would stay at pitt most likley be his last job. and he is out of work and you could get him for what pitt wants to pay.
bradley for DC.GET HER DONE.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 10:41 pm

Teryl Austin would be a real nice pick up. Strong recruiter, great experience. Salary in the $450k range.

Tom Bradley is interesting. Larry Johnson Sr. seems to have weathered the storm at the other school and Bradley has yet to be brought into the frey.

I would be interested to see a comparison of DC pay across the ACC. Fortunately, the bigger recruits are on the offensive side of the ball. Anybody notice there aren’t many 5 foot somethings on the list? Go big!!

Comment by dhuffdaddy 12.14.12 @ 10:44 pm

As I’ve said here before….Bradley knew ;-)…and Pitt knows this. Otherwise i’d be fine with it.

Comment by Jackagain 12.14.12 @ 10:46 pm

Here isthe thing it is like justinian says
hire someone who wants to be here.

bradly lives in pittsburgh he would not be looking to leave.

and he is a very good DC and the players he coached liked him.

and a lot of good players come out of NJ and he has a lot of contacts there.

i see it as win if we get him.

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.14.12 @ 11:11 pm

bradley is tied up to2014, huxtable is from the south

Comment by paul shannon 12.14.12 @ 11:17 pm

I could just see Pitt playing PSU in a couple years with Bradley on the Pitt sidelines coaching the defense :-)

Comment by Jackagain 12.14.12 @ 11:20 pm

Can’t see Pitt adding Bradley. He’s tainted by PSU scandal and Peterson would not risk letting Chryst bring him on board. Also, Chryst would not be smart to have an DC with a higher profile than him when he’s trying to build the system. Chances of seeing Bradley on Pitt sideline ranks down there with bring Rhoads back

Comment by Mtoolmn 12.14.12 @ 11:54 pm

Wow Jackagain, I never saw that anywhere. Where’d ya see that??

Comment by Dan 12.15.12 @ 12:16 am

Bradley almost guarantees continuity if nothing else. Great recruiter, good coordinator, well liked everywhere.
I believe he attended some of Pitt’s practices earlier in the year.
Would help establish Pitt as an up and comer(imo).

Comment by frankarms 12.15.12 @ 8:44 pm

Frankcan, how many recruits is Pedophilia St allowed this year?

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 12.16.12 @ 11:18 am

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