November 20, 2012

Nothing like the chaos leading up to a holiday. Kids trying to finish projects, work stuff that needs to be done before a couple days. So, just hit some links and thoughts.

Devin Street and Aaron Donald have no plans to turn pro. Uh, great. Not thinking Donald would anyways, but Street is still a possibility. I hate these questions when there are still games to play. There’s no way to give a good answer. Street probably won’t but there is still a chance.

A few articles on Dorian Johnson’s verbal to Pitt, but only one has the quote that might make me relax a little on the commitment.

“I won’t be taking any visits to any other schools,” he said.

Ahhhh. ranked Johnson as the #2 OT in the 2013 class (Insider subs).

With Johnson, Pitt gets an athletic looking tackle prospect with a tall, lean frame and with some time in the Panthers weight program he should be able to pack on some needed but good mass. If pressed into action quickly, he could experience some growing pains as he develops his game, but this is a kid with very promising upside. He not only looks athletic, but displays the athleticism to be a good college tackle and that athleticism should help him to adapt and be productive if needed early on in his career which he may be. Johnson displays good flexibility as well as balance and agility. He may not be the biggest kid in terms of mass, but is an explosive and powerful kid who can deliver a pop on contact and drive defenders off the ball. He is not only capable of opening up running lanes at the line of scrimmage, but also blocks well on his feet in space and can deal with second-level defenders with similar type crushing results.

You not only like his athleticism, but also that he displays nastiness as a blocker. He looks to need a little more development in his pass pro, but he flashes the tools to develop into a strong pass blocker. He will need to continue to develop and strive for more consistency in his technique, but this is a player with the tools to develop into a very good O-Lineman at the college level.

So… Heinz Field had a Sunday night game. It has four WPIAL games scheduled for Friday. Then a noon Rutgers-Pitt game on Saturday. That should be fun. Naturally Coach Chyst is just saying, “whatever man.”

So, does Pitt keep the pattern going of back-to-back losses followed by back-to-back wins? Coach Chryst is willing to take it at this point.

”At this point right now, I’d be all for following that 2-2-2 schedule,” he said. ”We’ve got to go earn that one though.”

Hey, some expansiopocolypse stuff. I know I’ll write more later on the issue but here’s some reading material from others.

The Big East is screwed — again.

Louisville or UConn in the ACC. Who ya’ got?

Rutgers and Maryland: failing upward.

Not a lot of love from Big 10 fans on this move. Brian Cook at MGoBlog suggests that the BTN stop wasting time and go to 16 and finish off the traditions. He expands on his feelings more in a great Q&A with Spencer Hall.

Two great reads on the issues. The first from UConn perspective on why the whole expansiopocolypse sucks. This one from Maryland that lays out exactly why Maryland is and should join the Big 10 (hint, it’s all about the money).

Rule of thumb is… if you don’t think you will be a 1st or 2nd round pick… then stay in college.
I think Donald can be… but I don’t think Street is or ever will be. But then again, I don’t know what his 40 and shuttle times are.
I would be more concerned about Donald leaving than Street.

And I don’t see why the Big10 thinks they are going to get all this money due to YES network due to Rutgers, etc. YES network didn’t even pickup on Big East basketball which has a VERY strong following in the NYC metro area.
I already see many Big10 games… OSU, PSU, Michigan, MSU…. and who cares about the rest.

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 8:43 am

Mike Krzyzewski on the record saying ACC is in for some challenges.

Sees Big 12 or Big 14 attempting to poach a couple of teams.

Comment by PittofDreams 11.20.12 @ 8:46 am

ACC had better respond. It won’t happen overnite if they don’t, but we see what happened to the Big East when they got raided the first time and didn’t respond in kind.

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 8:52 am

Coach K is right. So aim high, focus on your target and get it.
I still think the best retort is to form your own network, based in Charlotte or Atlanta and take the BTN on toe to toe.
As for Chryst, I loved his comment on the field conditions…”what the hell do you want us to say”.
Translated, I can’t control it so I ain’t worried about it and complaining don’t work either.
Haven’t you heard, the SEA is being sued by the Steel girls.
Sometimes, you gotta answer dumb questions with straight talk that “outs” the stupidity.

Comment by sfpitt 11.20.12 @ 8:56 am

Chad Voytik on the record admitting to not having the strongest arm.

“Trey (Anderson) and I say we make up for it with our feet,” Voytik said. “We always joke we wish we could exchange a little bit of escapability for a little bit of arm strength.”– Trib Review

Don’t know where the rumor started that Voytik had a really strong arm. Fact is, he never showed it.

Of course, this doesn’t mean he can’t be a good quarterback. But time to be realistic about any expectations of what Chad is and isn’t.

Chapman on the other hand appears to be somebody that you would say has a strong arm.

Savage is someone you might describe as having a cannon.

Whatever the case, at this point I’m anxious to see what any of these guys look like behind center running Chryst’s offense.

Seems Chapman is anxious himself considering he’s committed to graduating early in order to be there in the spring. Got to love that.

Comment by PittofDreams 11.20.12 @ 9:01 am

UConn won’t (or shouldn’t…) be invited to join the ACC for the same reason that Pitt wasn’t invited to join the B10: they add nothing that BC doesn’t already bring.

Louisville adds new homes in a new region, but not in a large market. The ‘Cuse blogger was right, tho: probably an upgrade over MD in both football and hoops. Dunno/ don’t care if L’ville has a mens lacrosse team or not…

If I was Swofford, my first (and maybe only) phone call would be to U of Houston: expands your brand to the 3rd/4th largest city, great school right in Big XII’s back-yard. Has you in position to pick off the next Texas school sick of U-Texas. And they’re at least as good in football as UConn.

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 9:06 am

As coachK said… ACC has to circle the wagons and take attendence…
Really, need to ask the current members who they think should be added… I still think ACC thinks basketball first…
Otherwise, Pitt nor Syracuse would have been added to ACC…
Therefore… my picks… in order.
1. Louisville (more of a strategic pick to keep away from Big10 or Big12)
2. Vandy (Nashville)
3. UConn (Big10 not interested so last team to go after)

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 9:23 am

I like that order but I’d also approach Penn State and Texas and see what it would take. If the remaining ACC schools stick together AND the ACC picks up those 5 additional schools and adds Notre Dame (already half in and could stay that way), ESPN’s contract would have to be far superior to what the Big 10 is receiving.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 9:32 am

Who cares !…. as long as its not tino… people will have the biggest sigh of relief.

Obviously its not all his fault.. but 3 years of this nonsense..people are just frustrated… but that kid has never closed a game for Pitt ever.

He is having his best year under Chyrst.. lets hope the other QB’s can develop even more.

Comment by Snala The Panther 11.20.12 @ 9:38 am

usa has a list of how mutch money head coach make
i would love to know if pitt went cheap with chryst but i cant get into list maybe my system.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 9:38 am

Florida State looks to be a big target.

Seems a Southeastern school needs to be in the miz as one of the new additions.

Comment by PittofDreams 11.20.12 @ 9:39 am

Tex panther forget texas or any one in big 12 they have all signed away there 2 ter tv rights and if they leave the big 12 will still get the money from games on tv so forget them

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 9:43 am

Some food for thought:

As of September 2012///DMA (designated market area) # of TV households


Baltimore 27th
Nashville 29th
Hartford 30th

Vanderbilt is an exact fit for the ACC if academics are truly a priority.

UCONN is a Syracuse in the sense that it has a strong alumni base in the NY Metro.

Problem for Vandy is that it would be receiving fewer $$ from the ACC than the big moola from the SEC TV deal. As wealthy as Vanderbilt is, it would be a decision that would favor the Commodores staying in the SEC.

Comment by isnore 11.20.12 @ 9:53 am

Quite frankly, your all thinking about this wrong. Why would Texas join the ACC? To bring the league up to where they already are? Be serious. If we were smart, and we’re not (see Steve Pederson, man of no vision), we would get the hell out of the ACC before it’s reduced to what the Big East was. We’d be proactive. And it hurts to say this, but we’d follow WVU. Form an Eastern division of the Big 12, or whatever it is they call themselves now. Get Cinci, Louisville, Syracuse and see if the B12 would like to go to 14. You can whistle past the graveyard all you want, but eventually the better teams in the ACC are going to be going elsewhere. And take a good look at what forms the nucleas of the ACC and you’ll see the viewing market just isn’t there to compete with what the other conferences have.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 11.20.12 @ 9:58 am

Nucleas??? Maybe Steve is smarter than I think.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 11.20.12 @ 10:02 am


I forgot to list two other markets that have often been mentioned for possible ACC entry///

Cincinnati #35
Louisville #48

Yep, Lousville adds bupkis to the TV contract for the ACC….NOTHING!!!! Way too small.

Comment by isnore 11.20.12 @ 10:02 am

The only way the Big 12 works for Pitt is if BC, UConn, Pitt, Cuse, Cincy, Louisville, WVU and Iowa St form an Eastern pod. Then TX, Tech, Baylor, TCU, OK, OK St, KS and K St form a Western. Might work but BC, Pitt and Cuse need to be in 100% agreement and Texas would have to be 100% on board. This assumes you believe there is a strong possibility of losing NC, VA and Ga Tech to the Big 10 or Va Tech and NC St to the SEC. If this new Big 12 were to happen, I would think Clemson and Fl St would be invited and we’d have an 18 team league.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 10:09 am

Syracuse is #84
Pittsburgh is #23..

Its about basketball 1st as Syracuse added nothing regards to TV contract or football.

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 10:21 am

Although it won’t happen, I would like to see the ACC talk with Penn State. They’ve been treated like an outsider by the Big Ten even when Joe PA was there and before the scandal. Hovever the money issue would be difficult to overcome. I do think it rather funny that the Big Ten is saying that Penn State will no longer be isolated. Yes, the Big Ten will now ignore 3 teams, instead of just Penn State.

Comment by Justinian 11.20.12 @ 10:29 am

TX Panther, I agree with you about an eastern pod for the big 12. When the debate over West Virginia and Louisville was occuring, I thought they missed the boat. They should have taken both and possibly included Cincinnatti. That way they would have travel partners and a few teams near them, where travel would not be as difficult or expensive. The Ivy League has travel partners and also adds tag on games like playing Harvard and then Darthmoth on a trip into Boston. That type of thing can make a big difference with the Olympic or non-revenue sports.

Comment by Justinian 11.20.12 @ 10:40 am

LOOK u conn basket ball may be a thing of the past there coach is gone there football is junk.
if you are a college foot ball fan and your team is not playing and you have Lville playing joe blow ans u con playing joe blow who will you watch L VILLE.

Lets us look at BB L VILLE is rated nummber 2 u conn is with out there coach who will you watch

PLUS you want to keep FS who do you think they want L ville for football.
and as some one said you have the same tv sets with the orange men as you do with u conn.
but L VILLE would be new TV sets.
just saying i dont think it is cut and dryed
that it is u conn.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 10:47 am

MD alumni upset. Almost all high level MD officials not from the school and MD President Loh is from midwest. Surprised MD Gov not in the loop.

ACC should use 50 mil wisely to lure ND full time and set up cable channel. No need to immediately add MD replacement. Get ND.

Comment by Frank MD 11.20.12 @ 10:50 am

link to

Not sure if this link will work but this is from Nate Silver (political junkies know who he is) and provides an interesting take on the Big 10 expansion.

BTW – Rutgers has a larger fan base than Pitt but I was surprised that Pitt’s is nearly 900k. Penn State has nearly 3 times as many fans.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 10:59 am

JoeD, WADR, you’re wrong. Only the Big East is stupid enough to make expansion decisions thinking hoops has any play in this. If so, why on earth is Rutgers being considered for B10 membership??

No they are being considered mostly due to the monthly cable access fees.

Comcast now charges me an involuntary monthly fee as part of my cable bill for the Pac-12 Network, just because University of Colorado was added. Let’s say it’s $0.50/month for “only” 2 million cable subscribers in Colorado, and almost the same for Utah. That’s $20-ish million per year in new revenues. And it doesn’t even matter if I watch the channel or not, or whether the teams stink or not (CU certainly does…).

Now look at Washington-DC & Baltimore (let’s say 8 million cable subscribers between them) and NYC & Metro Jersey (let’s say 12 million cable subscribers between them). That’s $10M per MONTH (or $120 million per year) in new revenues for the B10 Network!!

And THAT, my friend, is why UConn and Louisville, altho better competitively, pale in comparison to getting into Houston or Dallas-Ft.Worth (UH or SMU), Philly (Temple) or Cincy or some such. If it’s a money decision (and Rutgers & MD sooooo obviously are…), then it couldn’t matter less how good the teams are, it only matters WHERE they are! And hoops is far less relevant.

As an aside, we’ll never know, but I still say that if the Big East had thought of football & markets first and added SMU and Houston instead of DePaul and Marquette, they’d still be a thriving business.

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 10:59 am

Then the ACC should move West and target Houston and let the academics and brand be diluted. Just not sure if Swofford is as greedy as Delaney. Both have large egos though.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 11:06 am

Continuing from above: if you’re thinking like a cold capitalist — if it’s a sheer money move — the trick is to find the best teams you can as long as they’re in big markets currently untapped by your brand (i.e., not charged the ACC Network’s cable access fees, presuming they have them…). Which means you look west: at Houston, Dallas-Ft.Worth, maybe Cincy. Not Vandy or Louisville, at least not your first call.

Only if those efforts fail does a cold capitalist but his fan’s hat back on and look to big schools in small markets.

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 11:17 am

when is ESPN going to sho the ACC mo money? If the money isn’t competitive, Fl State will be talking to Texas soon.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 11:18 am

JoeD – while I don’t disagree with your rankings, I would doubt that Vandy would go beyond one courtesy call.

UConn is a no brainer, but I’d look to add 2-3 teams. 2 if one believes that ND might someday fully join and 3 if one doesn’t.

Comment by JLawrence 11.20.12 @ 11:18 am

TX Panther, I defer to you, but I thought UH had great academics, as does SMU?

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 11:20 am

Imma…. Temple actually makes a lot of sense from a TV market perspective, geographic fit, BB program strength and the recent commitment to FB. Just not sure about the academics and that matters to the school Presidents who vote on potential members.

Comment by JLawrence 11.20.12 @ 11:27 am

It will be fun to see where the dominos fall, but does anyone else agree that the ACC brought this on themselves? If the BIG thought they still had a chance at Notre Dame, none of this would have happened.

Comment by Atlanta Panther 11.20.12 @ 11:27 am

…and why not Navy? Especially given Balt-DC market and nationwide appeal. They fit academically and run a nice FB program. Might be a way to get yet another FB game out of ND.

Comment by JLawrence 11.20.12 @ 11:29 am

SMU yes. U of H…not so much. Similar to Louisville.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 11:30 am

The real money is in cable channel and getting ND.

Comment by Frank MD 11.20.12 @ 11:33 am

Atlanta Panther, what caused this is other BCS-AQ conferences were too late to the party, not realizing the B10 having their own network is like printing money.

My numbers (above) might be off a little, but not much. Just by adding MD & Rutgers, each B10 school will skim off like $10M/year in new revenues, which is more than Big East schools get all-in from their TV package.

However, the ACC just renegotiated their deal, and didn’t do that well (IMO). So they gotta make a splash to bring ESPN or Fox or Comcast or somebody back to the table to try again.

That, plus the new access fees (of $120M/year if it’s Houston and DFW or Philly), plus the ($50M) exit fee, should keep FSU and Clemson from looking around…

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 11:37 am

ESPN is killing the goose that lay the golden egg
espn owns the ACC.
but bye being cheap with the last TV contract
they gave the ACC and makeing them the lowest paid
major conference.
it made they a target for the outher conferences
the only way to stop this and keep there product whole is to bring the tv money up to a par with every one else
our there will be no ACC and ESPN would be the big losser from that so they better come up with more money.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 11:50 am

Setting up ACC cable channel with ND as cable partner brings big bucks.

Comment by Frank MD 11.20.12 @ 11:51 am

If the ACC can’t get Penn State and/or Texas, which they probably can’t then SMU and Houston would make a lot of sense. They are much bigger TV markets than Louisville and would give access to great recruiting areas.

Comment by Houston Panther 11.20.12 @ 11:52 am

Frankly, PSU is getting hosed…
Lots of their recruits come from MD and NJ… and PSU’s selling point was Big10 over ACC/BigEast…
now what are they going to do for recruiting base.. wpial?? I don’t think so.
PSU alum are so arogant… I can see them leaving Big10 to ACC just over the fact of not being able to play Big10 championship, share bowl money, etc.

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 11:58 am

Louisville and Hartford metro areas are the 42nd and 45th most populous markets. By comparison, Pittsburgh is 22nd. DFW and Houston are numbers 4 and 5 respectively. Philly is number 6 so Temple makes sense. But, Penn State is the far better fit. What financials can convince Penn State to leave the Big 10?

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 12:08 pm

Forbes mag is saying the the same thing this is becuse the ACC signed a under valued TV contract.
DAN do you remmber when i bitched abought the 17 million tv contract when the outher conference were geting 20 million.
and every one on here jumped on me becuse we want from 4 millon to 17 million.
but i was right this is all the result of the ACC and ESPN BECUSE OF THE CHEAP TV DEAL. and it wont change untill the money comes in line with the outher conferences lets hope espn is smart enough to change things.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 12:08 pm

I retract my earlier comments that the ACC should try to poach Penn State. While culturally and geographically it makes sense and is worth a phone call the money isn’t there. The Baltimore Sun had the B10 and ACC per school TV financial numbers this morning and it is clear that the ACC has some serious catching up to do in this area. Unfortunately to be successful in college football now a conference needs to embrace the challenge of hooking up with (terminology intended) one of the big sports networks and also probably in collaboration with them develop a strong competitive conference sports tv network. I hope the ACC is up to this at this time and that ESPN is willing to reopen the contract if necessary to do it. Almost certainty this would require conference addition(s) to increase the money and make the approach work. Having said this I have no idea what is going to happen next. Nor do I have any idea if the ACC will become stronger and continue to be a viable conference or if something else will happen. Any more of this and my head is going to explode. I think we should all put this crap aside for a while and concentrate on Saturday. We have no more control over the outcome of the game than we do of conference expansion/money but it is a lot more fun to root for our team and worry about personnel, coaching, xs and os and yes (ahem!) quarterbacking. HTP! Beat the Scarlet Knights!

Comment by opfim 11.20.12 @ 12:22 pm

Lets beat Butgers and destroy their BCS hopes.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 12:30 pm

IF ACC wanted eyeballs and a more lucrative contract….

ACC could have brought in Pitt and Rutgers to begin with… instead of Syracuse.
However, Syracuse has a better basketball program and basketball rules ACC…

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 12:37 pm

opfim you are right sence i cant make ESPN give more money to the ACC which is what caused this
abut do to the fact that the game is on sat
i will try to think of who should take marylands place.
becuse that is the nummber one problem now not the money or the game they come later.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 12:51 pm

JoeD, wrong again (sorry…). It’s not about eyeballs it’s (mostly) about charging for TV sets (even if they’re off).

Pitt doesn’t bring any new charges for TV sets because PSU already does. Example, people in Pgh, whether they like it or not, PSU haters or not, pays the B10 a fee for watching (or not watching, doesn’t matter) B10 Network and PSU. My Dad — who despises PSU — must pay a B10 fee thru his cable bill.

And if Rutgers is added, you’ll pay a B10 fee living in NJ, even if you despite Rutgers and PSU, even if you never watch the channel, doesn’t matter.

Syracuse & Pitt were added becuase they are the best available schools in market states (PA & NY) that currently weren’t penetrated by the ACC brand.

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 12:51 pm

but ACC could have brought in Rutgers instead…
B10 is talking about getting onto the YES channel… Yankee channel..
B10 network is not on my comcast dial…. but I do get YES and love watching the Yankees.

I think ACC stuck to their guns wanting good academics and BB program… that is why Syracuse over Rutgers. Rutgers was begging the ACC to take them as was UConn… but ACC was waiting for Notre Dame.

I would rather have Rutgers over Louisville… Rutgers athletic programs are on the rise… major investment in facilities.

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 1:05 pm

I think that UCONN will be the first choice to replace MD. If you recall, the ACC wanted UCONN and Syracuse when Pitt got in. BC blocked the UCONN move. However, the circumstances are different now, and I think UCONN gets the invite…The Big 12 will definitely go to 12 teams now (at least). It’s about the amount of product you are able to sell in the market. Simply put, the Big 12 needs more games each week to stay competitive with the other conferences. I look for the Big 12 to go after Lville and Cinci soon. They need to take WVU off of that island they are on. If they go to 14, I’m thinking they go after Boise and BYU (Note, both of those schools and SD State are reported to be seeking reentry to the Mountain West).

Comment by HbgFrank 11.20.12 @ 1:06 pm

TX Panther – beating Rutgers does nothing to their BCS hopes – which is why I like our chances Saturday, and apparently Vegas does too becasue we’re a 2 point favorite.

See, when we win Saturday Rutgers will have 1 conference loss, same as Louisville (if Louisville beats UConn). Well, on Thursday 11/29 Louisville is at Rutgers. So even if Rutgers loses to us, beatu Louisville and they win the conference clean.

What would be awesome – we beat Rutgers, UConn beats Louisville, Louisville beats Rutgers, and then RU, UL, Cuse, and Cincy all tie for first with 2 losses!

Comment by KeyboardKev 11.20.12 @ 1:07 pm

JoeD, ACC chose Syracuse over Rutgers for the NYC fees. Makes sense (following the rule: it was the best available school in the untapped market).

Therefore, we don’t need Rutgers, for the same reason the B10 doesn’t need Pitt, since it has PSU…

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 1:08 pm

JoeD, take this to the bank: about 6 months after Rutgers moves to the B10, you’ll have the B10 Network whether you like it or not….

We didn’t have the Pac-12 Network here either, not even as a pay-extra option. But we have it now, no opt-in required…

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 1:10 pm

who wins that tie?

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 1:11 pm

info for you the charlotte observer took
a vote on who the fans wanted to replace
maryland and in first place is cincinnati
it means nothing but there it is the fans pick.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 1:13 pm

Agree ACC needs to make a big statement and that has to include all the following:
1) Re-open negotiations with ND, either they are all in or get the heck out entirely. Take your 5 game deal and kick it through the arms of TD Jesus.
2) Go to FSU and Clemson and ask them what 2 teams they want added in exchange for an agreement that they will pay $100 million exit fee if they leave over the next 10 years.
3) Re-open ESPN deal and make it clear, either ESPN ups the anty or face the fact that ESPN will be contractually committed to a conference potentially reduced to the football equivalent of the BE.

If ACC gets ND in as full member, the TV market and money take care of themselves, they can pick any other 3 teams to bring them up to 16 and likely result in the largest payout/team of any conference in America.

If the greedy “ND doomers” say “no” then as soon as the BIG is contractully committed to 16 teams the ACC should cut all ties with ND and watch them try to find another conference willing to accept their BS offer of 5 games. ND wants no part of the SEC or Big XII football so they will have no choice but put their unmitigated greed in check.

Comment by Taxing Matters 11.20.12 @ 1:31 pm

Have ND and Fl St ‘pick’ what schools would make them happy.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 1:40 pm

Taxing Matters you are part right and part wrong
yes you add two schools to go to 15 then you go to ND and say we are saveing the nummber 16 spot for you but you must be in in all sports in 5 years. they will say yes to that sooner then telling them to do it now if you tell them to do it now they would walk.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 1:44 pm

who cares anymore…. this carousel of conference jumping is ridiculous and will seemingly never end. I don’t give a shit anymore about who plays in which conference as long as pitt is in one of those conferences.

Comment by Coach Ditka 11.20.12 @ 1:45 pm

I find it quite funny about how many of us would love to see PSU in the ACC with us. I find it hard to desire the ultimate destruction of the University like I used to.

The evil emperor is dead. His cohorts scattered or in jail. The brainwashed populous will slowly see the world come into perspective and, I hope, one of the best rivalries, if not the best, in college ball can be rekindled.

I just wish it didn’t seem so distant, but if ND and FSU could put pressure on them, bleed their discontent with the B1G a little… maybe… It would also help FSU and Clemson see the ACC is willing to make a move for football, and hopefully dissuade some of their running urges.

Someone needs to pull an inception like introduction of this thought into Swofford.

Comment by Benzene 11.20.12 @ 1:47 pm

TX Panther
Agreed, with ND you could even try to pull MSU away from the BIG (how much fun is it being the little bro to MU). But how do you get ND? Until the BIG is no longer an option, ND will continue to hold out. Hopefully, the BIG goes to 16 teams quickly and then the ACC in in the cat-bird seat.

Comment by Taxing Matters 11.20.12 @ 1:50 pm

BUT first things first which school to replace maryland if you want to make FS happy it is
L ville.
then you must think do we want to go to 15
i say yes we take u conn.
then we get get new TV CONTRACT on par with every one else.
then we tell ND you must come all in
but in that order.
first things first one step at a time but be done before next year.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 1:53 pm

ND is the linchpin to everything. If they said yes, the ACC could essentially one if the big conferences also. Not gonna happen while ND gets the NBC money…

Comment by Pittastic 11.20.12 @ 2:00 pm

go straight to 20 and pick up Penn State, Purdue, Michigan St and Cincy after Ville and UConn.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 2:01 pm

meant to add “poach”

Comment by Pittastic 11.20.12 @ 2:03 pm

Let’s focus on academics and go after Yale, Harvard and Princeton.

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.20.12 @ 2:07 pm

TX Panther – should that 4-way tie happen it would go to a “mini conference” between the 4 teams. If there’s a tie at the top of the mini conference, the higher ranked team would get the BCS bowl. Looking at the standings, if that crazy 4-way tie would happen UL and RU would tie at the top.

Comment by KeyboardKev 11.20.12 @ 2:19 pm

look there is a ay to stop the bleeding there
is a cluse if things change we can go back to espn and re do the tv contract.
so if we pick up 2 teams insted of just one to replace maryland.
that changes things and we were all ready going to talk to espn becuse of the 5 games with ND.
we have made the greats BB CONFERENCE OF ALL TIME

so we say to espn we added l ville for a biger football foot print we are givingg you the best BB CONFERENCE of all time and 5 foot ball games with ND so we want 21 millon per team plus it is in your best intrest to do this and 21 million per team should stop the bleeding what do you all think of that idea.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 2:24 pm

Yes FRANKCAN, I remember your points well. At that time, 17million did seem like a lot, at least it was close to the 20 million.

You stated, “but their tv contracts are coming up for renewal”, and you were right. They all went to 23-25 Million, now Big Ten to 35million???

It does seem on the outside, that ESPN went cheap, and it just may cost them.

Comment by Dan 11.20.12 @ 2:29 pm

Hey, how about if ESPN/Disney bought NBC???????

Then ESPN can play ball with Notre Dame!!!

What a friggin’ mess!! LOL

Comment by Dan 11.20.12 @ 2:30 pm

This press conference is surreal. Growing up in Jersey, this is very strange looking.

Comment by Chris 11.20.12 @ 2:31 pm

We are not going to lure any team that is already in a major conference because of the grant of rights clauses. It’s financially impossible. And 50 million obviously wasn’t enough of a penalty either. There are really no good alternatives out there. The only way (and its a long shot) to secure the ACC long term is to somehow convince ND to join in football. That will fix the contract, enable a grant of rights clause, and get a commitment out of the football members. If Notre Dame doesn’t join then other schools will leave. At some point too many important schools will leave and Notre Dame won’t find the ACC to be a suitable home anyway. But they will never commit to football. I just don’t see a good way to convince them.

Until that actually happens i would rather take Maryland’s cut and redistributed it among the members

Comment by Pittfan6 11.20.12 @ 2:55 pm

Frostburg St.???

Comment by Dan 11.20.12 @ 2:56 pm

I can’t believe we’re going thru this crap again.

What did someone call it the other week

the movie Groundhogs Day …..revisted

When will it ever end !

Double Oy Vey !

P.S. at least with the movie bill murray got to get Andie McDowell on a daily basis. what do we get?
haha :-)

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 3:05 pm

I am not a cable channel expert but that is why B10 can buy schools. How much is it to set up an ACC/ND cable channel through ESPN, NBC, Comcast, etc? ACC now has 50 million and one less school to share money.

Comment by Frank MD 11.20.12 @ 3:10 pm

Emel, he actually failed repeatedly to score…yes, pun intended. It was only at the end, when he wasn’t trying so hard to score, that he actually got the prize.

Comment by panther94 11.20.12 @ 3:12 pm

If Gene DeFilippo doesn’t veto the UConn bid last fall, we are hosed.

– Syracuse and UConn would be leaving
– WVU would have still left
– TCU…gone

Meanwhile, the B1G would still have gone with Md and Rutgers. As Imma pointed out, the Panthers don’t add revenue to the BTN.

It would be another crappy schedule next year, recruiting would be set back, etc….

Does Chryst even interview for the HC job?

Heck, I think we should send DeFilippo a retirement gift!

Comment by JLawrence 11.20.12 @ 3:15 pm

Btw losing Clemson would be no big deal. I don’t get why ppl would be upset losing them. I mean really they hardly have a fan base down here in the Carolinas, what not with all the UNC, NC State, Duke and South Carolina alumni.

And exactly what TV market would be lost….
Clemson SC. lol

Also there football program had been very mediocre at best the last 30 years until just the last 2 seasons, when they installed FRaud’s spread with the Tulsa OC going there.

If they go to the Big 12 adios, good luck. They’ll get killed on a regular basis just like the Hooopies. (who if u remember scored 70 points on them in the Orange Bowl)

The bIg 12 will fall apart overnite if TExas again decides to entertain thoughts of going to the PAC 12, which will eventually in a 16 conference world, have to add 4 teams. And there’s noone out west that would make sense for them to add. It can ONLY be Texas + 3 consorts.

Meaning the Big 12 is on borrowed time. Not the ACC.

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 3:16 pm


even though I just pointed out the potential pitfalls (like that) of the Big 12 in above post.

If you remember, they (the BIg 12) wanted PITT before the Hoopies. I even made a case on here for PITT joining, if you wanted PITT to play BigBoy football.

Because Pittsburgh is a Top 25 TV market foreign to the Big 12, West Virginia is not a Top tv market . They took the hoopies ONLY because Luck assured them they could join the BIg 12 immediately ( as in tomorrow, lol)

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 3:23 pm

Emel – you are correct. Had forgotten that B12 wanted us. Yeah, that would be big-boy football.

…but no games at noon!

Comment by JLawrence 11.20.12 @ 3:35 pm

Pitt did the right thing getting into the ACC. I think if WVU had stayed one more year in the BE they would probably be playing for the NC this year instead they may not even get to a bowl. All for money.

Comment by Frank MD 11.20.12 @ 3:37 pm

Oh one other thing. I believe Texas & Oklahoma would love to get access to the Rose Bowl game.
Oklahoma played out there a couple years ago and love the whole experience.

Since the Little 11 (B1G) has just said, by adding Maryland & Rutgers, they have given up in their attempt to lure the whale that is Texas, the only way now for both Texas & Oklahoma (since Okla State & TT are joined to their hips) to gain access to the Rose Bowl is by joining the PAC 12.

That deal came really close to fruition the other year, I think the timing was just off. Since then the SEC has gone to 14 and now the B1G has gone to 14. And ND has signed on with the ACC. So the time could be right now or in the near future for that deal to be revisited.

Anyway that’s my take on it, fwiw .

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 3:43 pm

EMel we can save this buy adding ewo teams L ville
and u conn both. there is a cluse that espn
must review the tv deal if things change.
and with them 2 added to the BB it is now a super BB CONFERENCE PLUS L ville adds to the foot ball foot print plus the 5 games from ND they have to revamp the tv deal and it would be in there best intrest to bring ue up to a par with the outhers say 21 or 22 million per team. that would save every thing.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 4:08 pm


Hey how are ya !
ACC can only add one atm since adding two would give you an odd number amount of teams (15)

I don’t think you add anyone at this point unless they can add to each school’s slice of the Revenue Pie. So the questions are :

1) Does Uconn give you anything in TV sets, Cable deals (subscribers, whatever) that you don’t already have in the Northeast with Syracuse & Boston College ? The basketball is irrelevant as we’ve seen with all these conf. additions.

2) Does the ACC want to stoop to the level of Louisville academics ? They didn’t for WVU.
And does adding Louisville add to the per school slice of the Revenue Pie ? (somebody mentioned L-Ville TV market is only #48, that is pretty small.) You would have had to think if L-Ville was a good value, the Big 12 would have scooped them up instead of WVU, right ?

On another subject, as I predicted the other day, both Boise State & San Diego State are considering reapplying back to the Mountain West.
As it makes no sense whatsoever for them to travel thousands of miles to get the same thing they would have in the MTW. As both conf’s will be part of the Gang of 5.

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 4:25 pm

Just another day in the soap opera that is:

” As the Conferences Turn ”


Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 4:28 pm

Penn State and Notre Dame are key in this. Get Penn State and it all comes together nicely. Penn State can be convinced. Run the numbers with a new TV deal and a new ACC network, compare it to the new Big 10 deal without Penn State, and allow Penn State to share in the league bowl revenues while on probation. They instantly become top dog in the conference changing the conference’s culture to football first. And, Pitt gets its historic rival back. And, the Domers then go ‘all in.’ And, the ACC becomes stable again. Could then target Purdue and Michigan State as appetizers. The ACC allows Penn State to start over again with ‘friends’ and allows ‘the healing to begin.’

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 4:40 pm

Why didn’t the ACC try to get Rutgers when they had the chance?

Or did RU blow off the ACC?

Comment by steve1 11.20.12 @ 4:49 pm

I think all this gloom and doom is overdone. Maryland is not a big loss to the ACC. They are not great in BB or football. Don’t think they have any natural rivals in the conference. Their leaving may help Pitt to recruit in the MD/DC area.

Comment by Houston Panther 11.20.12 @ 4:54 pm

ACC turned there noses up to Rutgers…
they wanted even number… 14…

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 4:55 pm

JoeD from your morning post at 10:21AM

It’s all about basketball and that’s why Syracuse was asked to join the ACC even though it is a small TV market..WRONG//WRONG//WRONG!!

Mr. JoeD I haven’t the foggiest idea where you live or how much you know about the Noo Yawk Metro Area, however, let me tell you a little secret….Syracuse is the ONLY … repeat…ONLY school in New York State that receives major attention in the Noo Yawk market.

Tons of alumni…largest donors, Noo Yawka’s will travel up the NY Thruway to see the Orange.
When you go in to a sporting goods store in the City, Westchester or on Long Island Syracuse “stuff” is ALWAYS heavily displayed…yes, the #1 NY school is Syracuse.

So, the bottom line Mr JoeD “know it all” is that the ACC jumped to get Syracuse not because it has a great basketball team (remember the money is in football)but because the Orange footprint is heavily tracked through out the Noo Yawk TV market

Comment by isnore 11.20.12 @ 4:56 pm

LOTS of Cuse alums in the NYC metro area – NYC, LI, northern NJ, southwest CT. No one around here cares much about Rutgers (except maybe Bruce Beck on WNBC TV) and some of the SNY guys (Ray Lucas went to Rutgers).

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.20.12 @ 5:13 pm

The ACC has different priorities than the Big 10 that’s why they picked Cuse over Rutgers. The Big 10 needs Rutgers to force their network on millions of people that don’t want it. While the ACC aka ESPN, picked the Cuse because they care more about ratings and draw.

Comment by Wardapalooza 11.20.12 @ 5:25 pm

Do you know how far Syracuse is from NYC…
Kids from Long Island, 5 NYC boros, Westchester county don’t go to Syracuse… some may but many don’t…
Most of those with money will go Ivy or the colleges in Mass area.
Going for Syracuse “DOES NOT” get the NY metro footprint…
IT was basketball…
The original 2 were Syracuse and UConn… both with better, longer term basketball programs than Pitt… Pitt has yet to go final 4 let alone win March Madness.
I know football pays the bills… but don’t kid yourself… ACC is run in Raleigh/Durham or Duke/NC.

Syracuse has I think 14,000 undergrads…
Rutgers has 42,000 undergrads… albeit 1 main plus 2 satelite campus… Newark & Camden.

I don’t see how you pick Syracuse over Rutgers… Rutgers is up and coming in sports as they invested heavily in facilities.

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 5:33 pm

Pitt has always been a weak second to PSU in the entire State…including Western Pa. The same situation applies to Rutgers in the New York has no following outside portions of Northern NJ and even in The Garden State it is a very weak player in terms of ratings…VERY WEAK.

So, the ACC grabbed Syracuse lst to pick up New York and took a flyer with Pitt because believe it or not Pitt’s TV ratings outside of Pa are actually decent. Yep, Pitt has a following (no, I don’t know why). It’s TV that counts, not the quality of the teams…Maryland and Rutgers have both stunk for may years in bb and fball.

The only team worth following between RU and MD is MD’s lacrosse team and that will be lost to the weakness of the B1G which does not feature lacrosse as a major sport in the majority of its schools.

Comment by isnore 11.20.12 @ 5:37 pm

FACT if ESPN does not come up with more money for
ACC this will be a on going thing and it will go the way of the big east. that is a fact the acc signed a under valued tv deal read forbes mag
and if the acc does not go back and get a lot more money when the tv deal is reviewed this year
then the ACC is done and in 5 years it will be gone just like the big east is now that is a fact jack take it to the bank we will be toast.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 5:40 pm

Joe D did you bother to read what Pitt Dad wrote at 5:13….Joe D you obviously are not, have never been and never will be a Noo Yawka! You would be well advised to change to another topic because Syracuse is a major athletic power in the NY Metro (including NJ) and NOT Rutgers.

In fact, let me really PISS you off…the top teams in the NY Metro are Notre Dame, Penn State and Syracuse in that order. Yep, the Nittany Lions have an enormous following because of Poopy pants JoePa. So, drop your stupidity about Rutgers!!

Comment by isnore 11.20.12 @ 5:44 pm

houston panther the part you dont get is maryland it self is not a big loss it is that if you can as a conference be poched what is to stop them from takeing 3 more schools or 4 then you become just like the big east the only way out of that is more money per team you have to be on a par with outher conference money wise or they will take who they want it is not maryland but what that means .

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 5:53 pm

The Rutgers/Maryland grab was all about TV subscribers, where as Pitt and Syracuse were about creating attractive television games. The Big Ten doesn’t even care if you watch the games or not because you’ll be paying for them anyway. The Big Ten Network is in trouble if TV ever moves to an a la carte model.

Comment by Chris 11.20.12 @ 6:02 pm

I live in NJ… and I’ve lived in NYC…
sorry… Syracuse is NOT a major athletic power (your description) in NY Metro…

Now, if I were to pick what colleges NY metro follow (you don’t have to be an alum to follow a team)… it is different depending upon the sport.

NYmetro do follow Big East Basketball… and therefore may adopt a Syracuse…
but college football… Notre Dame… agree on that… Rutgers probably #2…. probably PSU #3…

but they mainly follow the pro teams in NY metro..
Yankees, Giants, Nets, Devils, Rangers,
Mets, Jets, Islanders, Knicks

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 6:04 pm

Notre Dame fans are like Steeler fans..
They are alllll over…

Comment by Joe D 11.20.12 @ 6:05 pm

EMel playing football with the big boys if you remmber i was with you on that i said at the time how great it would be to have home games with texas and oak. and yes they did want pitt first.
and do you remmber how they shot you and i down
it was all abought security then not the money becuse you and i pointed out the 20 million pay day but we were told but there will be more
security in the ACC every one as tired of the way the big east was raided but once they signed there second ter tv rights the big 12 became the most secure look at us now were is the security.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 6:24 pm

FRANKCAN, I agree that the ACC needs more money. Since it is in ESPN’s interest that the ACC be competitive it should happen. Of course, it would be almost certain to happen if 1 or more high profile teams became members. I think that is on everyone’s wishlist.

Comment by Houston Panther 11.20.12 @ 6:28 pm

Conspiracy theory:

The NCAA, cartel-like, engineered the whole thing with the hopes of digging out two of its poorest “clients.”

And, finally, something back for the huge annuities RU and others pay to that fine body.

Comment by steve1 11.20.12 @ 6:30 pm

I believe Cuse is going to schedule annual big non-con games at Met Life Stadium. As they did this year with USC.

So that would suggest they have lots of NYC metro alumni there. And they do, ever been to the BiGEast tournament at MSG ?

Tons of Cuse ppl everywhere. No question in my mind Syracuse has lots more interest in NYC metro than Rutgers. Rutgers was a laughingstock in football for decades. And they’ve only had a few good basketball years. The last one was like in 1976 I believe.

This year is the best year ever for Rutgers football, yes they’re 9-1 or whatever, but their non-con is an annual joke(Zeise wrote about that more than once in the PG) and they still barely beat teams like Army. Give me a break.

Hopefully PC can get the troops motivated to play this week. Because we have more talent than RU.

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 6:31 pm


Yes I do remember that Frankie. I wanted to play BigBoy football, but we would be destroyed on a weekly basis, even worse than what’s happening with the Hoopies. And they have a more than legit D1 QB who was throwing for 500 yards a game.

Can you imagine PITT with Sir Tino at QB in the Big 12 and PC making his bonehead decisions.
Can u remember 0-76. Ouch that would have been really UGLY. $20 Million/year or no $20 Mil/year.

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 6:37 pm

Last year at this time the ACC was negotiating with Texas to join. As they would have no problem with the Longhorn Network. And since ESPN owns the rights to ACC content and produce the Longhorn Network, Texas wouldn’t have to jump thru any TV network hoops for this thing to work.

I suggest the ACC, try to make a splash, like they did when they got Notre Dame.

Go for a whale like Texas again. Why settle for more BigEast retreads. If you got Texas, Notre
Dame would come ALL IN as well I believe.

Then you could get another large fish in somebody like Penn State. I’m hoping Swofford and his war room cohorts are thinking on that kind of scale.

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 6:45 pm

Mostly a lurker on this site, but feel the need to submit (as others have previously) that no discussion of conference expansion is complete without a review of Frank the Tank’s Slant. Almost always the most analytical take on the subject: link to

Comment by whiskeyrebellion 11.20.12 @ 6:45 pm

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Isn’t that what Chicken Little cried. What everyone needs to remember is that we are talking about Maryland leaving the ACC. Not North Carolina or Duke and Miami,VA Tech, Clemson

Comment by Justinian 11.20.12 @ 7:03 pm

checked some sites barry tramel thinks the big 12 would add one more team go from 10 to 11 they dont want to go to 12 but they would like to have louisville.
mr sec call it spit balling on expansion says
sec should take north carolina pittsburgh virginia and vt and ncs i think it was tounge in cheek but nice of him to think of pitt.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 7:06 pm

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Isn’t that what Chicken Little cried. What everyone needs to remember, is that we are talking about “Maryland” leaving the ACC. Not North Carolina or Duke and not Miami, VA Tech, Clemson, or Florida State. As for the Big Ten’s addition of Rutgers, it may allow them to force a cable charge in New Jersey, but it won’t bring them the New York City market. The ACC needs to let the dust settle and make a logical informed decision about the team that makes the most sense for them to add.

Comment by Justinian 11.20.12 @ 7:11 pm

Plan your Friday because if (when) Pitt beats MI at 9:30 pm tomorrow, Pitt (according to NIT schedule) then plays on Friday at 2:30 pm.

But as always subject to TV.

Comment by Frank MD 11.20.12 @ 7:25 pm

Interesting fact, Swofford & Delaney were classmates at UNC.

No, you don’t think do you…..nah I won’t go there.

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 7:31 pm

NIT championship at 4:30 pm Friday.

Comment by Frank MD 11.20.12 @ 7:33 pm

@Joe D – no one outside of NJ cares about Rutgers football. This is the first year since 1869 that RU football has been relevant at all nationally. I agree with you that the NYC metro area cares more about pro sports (other than college basketball) but there is no way that RU would be #2. Hell, Fordham has more of a following (and better history).

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.20.12 @ 7:40 pm

Hard to say what should or should not happen but I’m skeptical of short term moves that don’t consider the long term.
ACC is as strong as its weakest link.
Take whiskeyrebellions advice and read Hank.
Pitt is fine, but thus has got to be way over Cyanide Steves head.

Comment by SFPitt 11.20.12 @ 7:41 pm

There is something about this MD – ACC sage that is giving me some fits.

Many of my co-workers are MD alums. I talked to a lot of them this week about the move. As you would expect there were all kinds of opinions but one thread stuck with me. Several mentioned about continually being the “red-headed” step child of the ACC. They were sick of the NC schools running the show and the lack of emphasis on football. They saw being stuck with ‘Cuse and Pitt as an insult. Why should they have to play Pitt in B’ball twice? Why are they being stuck with the Big East rejects? To me it makes sense. If you look at a map, Pitt would be a logical rival. I assume some of this is just sour grapes. However, I started to think down the road and how Pitt may be treated in 5 years by the tobacco coalition. We are a football centric school. Our B’ball team doesn’t play in the pussy ACC way. The next member of the ACC will most likely be another BE team who will be in our section. If FSU or Miami defects, things could get ugly. I am by no means sounding the alarm bells but you better be damn sure I will be looking for the signs.
Pitt moving to the ACC was the right thing to do. Let’s see how we are treated once the honeymoon is over.

Comment by Yeti 11.20.12 @ 8:01 pm

sage = saga

Comment by Yeti 11.20.12 @ 8:02 pm

lol Pitt Dad

Yes, Fordham had the 7 pillars of Granite. One of them was Vince Lombardi.

PITT and Fordham played to several scoreless tie games and were two of the heavyweights of college football back in the 1930’s. Meaning annual Top 10 teams. Rutgers…not so much. lol

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 8:10 pm

whoops meant,

the Seven Blocks of Granite. :-)

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 8:11 pm

Reply to JoeD’s “I live in NJ… and I’ve lived in NYC… sorry… Syracuse is NOT a major athletic power (your description) in NY Metro…”

Joe, again, you’re thinking like a fan and not an ice-cold capitalist. Rutgers isn’t a major athletic power either, and also isn’t IN NYC. But both are close enough, and ‘Cuse has a NY address.

Ideally, if St. Johns or Fordham or Columbia were in the FBS, that’s who you’d grab. But they’re not, so that’s where you choose between ‘Cuse or Rutgers.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the ACC mighta tried to grab Rutgers once the ND dust settled. Certainly brings more than UConn (a school which maybe adds cache but no cash).

But the ACC Network has positioned themselves to charge NYC thru Syracuse, I doubt they need much if anything Rutgers to saturate the market.

Therefore, better to expand into new markets (which is EXACTLY what the B10 Network just did…).

No way Texas is taking a MAJOR paycut, not to mention a serious cut in power, to join the ACC (the Big XIII doesn’t share revenue equally, UT hogs the lions share, which is exactly why TAMU & Mizzou fled).

So you get a toehold into their market: Houston and SMU (even if they stink, doens’t matter, they’re in the right spot). And the poor fools in those cities get to pay fees for both the Big XII and the ACC. And those fees roll in every month whether anyone watches the games or not.

Someone above said Navy, that makes sense (restores the DC/MD market). Temple & Cincy make sense. UConn no. Louisville maybe (marginal). USF no, we already have Tampa-St.Pete covered from FSU & Miami. Boise makes no sense (market too small, bad acedemics).

And these are schools that would take your phone call (Texas would horse-laugh).

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 8:23 pm

Yeti, I am red-headed (what’s left) but that’s not why I’m objecting.

Tell your MD pals that MD was lucky the ACC tolerated them with their below average teams.

Because their alums don’t give a s**t, they’re in debt up to their ears. The ACC caused this?


Their kaleidoscope unis will play for a few minutes in the Big Ten but will fade quickly.

Comment by steve1 11.20.12 @ 8:26 pm

*Oops, academics. I won’t say where I went to college! haha

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.20.12 @ 8:27 pm


I hear you but how is Pitt different (i.e. alums that don’t care, below average teams)?

Comment by Yeti 11.20.12 @ 8:32 pm


First off we aren’t BigEast rejects. Maybe refugees but certainly not rejects. We left the BigLeast on our OWN accord, they didn’t force us out or reject us or anything like that. I’m sure you didn’t mean we were rejects. And I hope the twerpies didn’t call us rejects.

Second the ACC isn’t split into 2 divisions for basketball, so I don’t understand their being “stuck with Pitt & Cuse”. Who by the way both PITT & Cuse have better basketball programs than the Twerps. Plus they’re only stuck with one of us in football as PITT is in the Coastal division and the Twerps & Cuse will be in the Atlantic divison. And I would imagine that whoever they make the 14th member would just replace Maryland in the Atlantic Division. As the Coastal already has Miami & Va Tech plus PITT.

One thing I have seemed to note during this Conference Soap Opera and being on their blogs, is fans & alumi of these various schools who have had less than stellar success on the hardcourt or the gridiron all seem to have one thing in common.

They all seem to moan & groan about the conf. they’re in and all their problems on the field are due to the conf. not their lackluster playing or coaching.

I got news for them, they aren’t going to all of a sudden flourish in their new conf. (see wvu, mizzou, tcu, which all had far better football programs than MD.) They’re going to be a doormat like Indiana has been for decades in Little 11 football. (since 1967 I believe for IU) And they will be looked upon as ACC rejects by the snobs in the Little 11. lol

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 8:34 pm

The difference?

1) We’re not in debt up to our ears…maybe kneecaps.

2) Last I looked, we don’t lose to MD in hoops and even football.

3) Alums? We’re at least behind our basketball team.

4) Coach Chryst has a Golden Retriever

Comment by steve1 11.20.12 @ 8:38 pm

YETI tell your frends to wait till they get to the big 10 they will really be treated badley there in football they will be crushed and get no respect.
and in bb they may do better but will have no rivlels ijst read a post on maryland bye people from there and they fell this was BULL SHIT
which is a way of saying we play better basket ball then you.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.20.12 @ 9:03 pm

Watching Butler clock UNC. Moral of the story: This year you better come to play hard 40 minutes (See Oakland).

Comment by steve1 11.20.12 @ 9:11 pm

@Imma Man

Know it’s hard to believe, but Texas and the ACC have had serious discussions in the past about Texas becoming a member. It really shouldn’t be that hard to believe, other than Texas and Oklahoma the others in the Big 12 aren’t exactly football program powerhouses, big on Academics, nor do they play in or are near large metro areas. (sans TCU)

And the ACC academics would be very attractive to a school like Texas that is one of the 8 public Ivies. As the ACC was rated by US News & World Report as having the best academics of all the major conferences.

And like I said in that post, the difference from last year to this year is:

Notre Dame is now associated with the ACC. If you can get ND to come ALL IN…you could get Texas imo

A renegotiated TV contract including ND & Texas would be huge. You could then entice someone like Penn State with money on par or larger than B1G. Now that is solidifying a conf. Not adding 2nd rate schools (hasn’t that what the BigEast has been doing, backfilling like that).

Comment by Emel 11.20.12 @ 9:13 pm

As I said previous, the future is a cable channel especially now with ND all in except football. You get nationwide access with ND especially in NYC market. NBC already brings ND. Maybe COMCAST. It would get more money then B10 channel.

Comment by Frank MD 11.20.12 @ 9:26 pm

I think they need to think big. Talk to ND and see if PSU would make the leap. Please spare me the silly anti-PSU stuff. We all know what they would bring to the table, even with the recent, big issues… long term it would be smart, plus it would hurt the Big10 and solidify the footprint with a big brand.

But yes, it’s a long shot, but ND could help.

Comment by JoeP 11.20.12 @ 9:31 pm

Midway through the 2nd half, Butler is up by 20 on UNC. Does Butler play football? Maybe they should be invited to replace MD.

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.20.12 @ 9:33 pm

Go after first rate schools and make it financially attractive with the philosophy of you keep what you kill. If you go to a BCS game, you get to keep the money and not share it. You go to a better bowl with a higher payout, you keep it. You get better television ratings…its yours. If you win and get a TV audience, the money is yours. No more welfare for teams like Wake and Duke. Think big, put football first and if a school isn’t serious about football, drop them. Go after @enn State and punch Delaney back hard. And if ESPN wants a viable product, they need to pay more for it or it will be taken by others who desire it. Just say no to UConn and Louisville…the conventional picks. They are teams 17 and 18 if you want to go there. The Big 10, SEC and Big 12 are all about to make aggressive moves. Call Texas, Vandy, Penn State. What does the ACC have to lose?

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 9:42 pm

Maryland & Rutgers are Scooby Snacks for OSU. Md is nothing more than a high priced whore for the big boys in the conference and that means OSU and UM.
their games will be played at the skins stadium as OSU, Nebraska travel by the thousands.
In 37 or so tries, MD has beaten PSU one time. Once!
Ditto the story for RU. hello meadowlands where the traveling thousands will make RU look like a visitor.
Money. Matters. Always.
So RU andMD will be able to get money by association.
It is the easy way out if you know you will never be good enough to do it on your own–and both schools know they can’t.
If MD did not like the way they were treated by UNC et al..wait until they get a dose of land grant endowment arrogance!
They are in the big leagues now. Being a well paid whore has its advantages….but you get screwed by those who choose you: not by those you choose.
Bills will get paid, but neither MD nor RU will ever have their own brand.
Pitt has a national brand…if we can out live Pederson we can restore it to lofty heights. But we won’t be able to take the easy route like MD and RU.
But we can’t do it with Pederson. He isn’t a player and he isn’t smart.

Comment by SFPitt 11.20.12 @ 9:46 pm

If Pitt beats Michigan in b ball and Rutgers in football, watch for a Big 10 invite.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 9:48 pm


Comment by steve1 11.20.12 @ 9:49 pm

Nordy and Stevie are holding Pitt back. They both must go. They are a pox on Pitt worse than Tino.

Comment by TX Panther 11.20.12 @ 9:56 pm

McGill? University of Toronto?

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.20.12 @ 9:59 pm

Virginia Tech’s AD now publicly expressing interest in the SEC.

link to

Interesting times. Looks like the ACC may be starting to come apart at the seams.

Comment by maguro 11.20.12 @ 10:10 pm

Seems like many believe the ACC needs to go all in at this point and go after a PSU or Texas. It appears that the only way to do this, as some have certainly alluded to already, is to be in talks with ND and PSU and/or Texas at the same time. ND probabaly won’t come all in unless at least one or two large fish like Texas and PSU come on board and there is no way that the ACC is going to land a Texas or PSU without a full commitment from ND. I know this is far fetched but I would love to see the look on Delaney’s face if Swofford was able to pull this off.

Comment by Floyd 11.20.12 @ 10:19 pm

Interesting indeed maguro!!! That’s funny, I read somewhere today, just someone popping off, nothing reliable, but, the only way the state of Virginia would let Va. Tech and UVA split up, is if they were both happy about their outcomes, which would be Va. Tech to SEC and UVA. along with UNC to Big Ten to round out their 16.

Rumors yes, non sense yes, but, that Delaney is one SOB. Smart SOB that is.

When you think about it, Big Ten wants the big state uni’s. UVA and UNC fit right in, and geographically along the border, now that Md. is in.

Not to be a sky is falling, but, really, at this point, which is more likely……

a. things stay status quo for awhile, or

b. more non sense in the next year.

Ya, me too, b.

Comment by Dan 11.20.12 @ 10:23 pm

Swofford better have some photos.

Comment by Dan 11.20.12 @ 10:24 pm

Tx Panther Nordy has raised Pitt’s academics to a lofty position. During his term heading the University the endowment has reached a position placing us in the top 30 of all colleges//public or private. Nordy is the best leader Pitt has ever had!!

Now, Smiling Stevie is the opposite of Nordy…a dumbass with the interpersonal skills of Atila the Hun! If you want to make changes can Stevie and place Nordy in the Pitt Hall of Fame!!

Comment by isnore 11.20.12 @ 10:29 pm

Dan I give you 1000 extra points for a super intelligent thought regarding Delaney’s possible plan to attract UVA and UNC to the B1G. As much as I hate it I think you are absolutely on the right track…..Swofford should be living in ESPN’s offices figuring out how to raise the revenue for the ACC to remian in business.

Comment by isnore 11.20.12 @ 10:34 pm

I absolutely agree with i snore’s statement–Nordy is the best chancellor Pitt has ever had. He has moved Pitt into the academically and financially elite of public universities. Athletics and athletic facilities have progressed as well. All of us would like to see faster progress on the football field. Hey we have a game Saturday. We could be seeing it happening! Let’s get focused on that! Beat the snot out of Butgers! We’ll have all off season to deal with this conference stuff. HTP.

Comment by opfim 11.20.12 @ 11:06 pm

isnore- You are dead on regarding Nordy. I dread the day that he decides to retire as our chancellor. No other leader since Bowman built the Cathedral has done more to enhance the status and reputation of the university than our current chancellor.

From the outside looking in, one could argue that the Pederson hire was a mistake. And there’s some logic in that based only on the football fiascos and the current conference mess.

But overall, Nordenberg has been outstanding. Geez, they’re already naming buildings after the guy.

Comment by Dinosaur 71 11.20.12 @ 11:12 pm

ND is not joining a conference willingly. They aren’t going to join one because Texas is in it or Penn State or anyone else. They like being independent and the ability to barnstorm….playing who they like, when they like. They are only beholden to one other school – Navy. And with the current success they are enjoying, they will only gain leverage .

Comment by Joe Lawrence 11.20.12 @ 11:15 pm

I agree about Nordy. I won’t mention the other guy because he’s still on my shit list for the coaching moves.

What’s with all the hand wringing? Pitt had to jump when offered a spot in the ACC. Jim Delany and Big Ten didn’t want Pitt, because they felt they already had the PA market covered with Penn State. Remember, Joe PA suggested they consider Pitt in expansion and they just blew him off. Penn State was never considered a real Big Ten team anyway and they didn’t have a lot of input in the decision making.

Comment by Justinian 11.20.12 @ 11:48 pm

I saw 145 comments and thought Foster committed. Jeez can we talk about something else? Pitt is in the ACC which is way better than being in the Big East. Let’s try to get to a bowl game ay?

Comment by TonyC 11.21.12 @ 12:41 am

Geez, stay away from the Blog for awhile and its like going back in time with the expansion talk!

For the holiday travelers – stay safe on the roads and for all, have a great Thanksgiving.

I’ll be attending an East Carolina Pirates home game on Friday while I’m in Wilmington, NC for turkey day… I’ll let you all know what our new conference is going to be like when the dust settles. :)

Comment by Reed 11.21.12 @ 5:08 am

Nordy has raised the academic profile but its not like Pitt was the equivalent of WVU before his tenure. Nordy’s cheapness and lack of football acumen has us in a precarious position. If Pitt spent the money on football and made football the focus 15 years ago, we wouldn’t be having these discussions. Football defines my degree. Unless I’m an Ivy league grad, nobody knows the difference between a Pitt and Cincy degree. No hiring manager really cares. So stop thinking your Pitt degree makes you so much better than another grad or non grad. Everyone knows who’s good from one year to another in football. Your college team is what people think when you say Pitt outside the tri state area not the quality of teaching or pharmacy program.

In addition, football makes big bucks for the university which can help increase the academic profile even more if that matters so much to you academics. At the very least our Olympic sports could be supported. Pitt is pathetic when it comes to competing in those areas. Nordy is too much of an intellectual. He needs to think more like a ruthless capitalist instead of the woos he is. I will be glad his reign has come to an end. Ask a Pitt grad over the past 5 years how that Pitt degree is working out for them today. You’d probably have to call their Mom to reach them.

This is all about money. Academics be damned. Our academic profile does nothing. Sure it got us into the ACC but its more about TV sets. The regents and not the snobby presidents are calling the shots now. I’d rather be in the Big 12 and watch some good football. When I tailgate at their schools I don’t feel better because I have the better degree from the higher ranked academic university. That’s Nitter talk. At least they did at one time have both a good football and good academic program. But, Pitt still can’t match Penn State. If Nordy was that great, Pitt wouldn’t still be trailing Penn State. Basketball is the only sport we are better at than our rival for sports and jobs in the Commonwealth. Seriously, kick his ass out to the curb and get both a chancellor and AD that has a goal for a national championship in football and to catch up and surpass Penn State in academic ranking and Olympic sports. Stop drinking the cool aid.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 7:14 am

And safe travels to all and Happy Thanksgiving. Go Pitt and beat Michigan tonight.

One last comment, I know that being a private school with a smaller alumni base puts Pitt at a huge disadvantage compared to the land grant schools. But Pitt appears to have decided long ago that the focus is on academics and being around like minded private schools. I happen to take a different opinion on how I want my alma mater aligned. If a schools like TCU and Baylor can compete against bigger schools in the Big 12, Pitt can do the same. But, it takes focus and a money committment. Pitt doesn’t have that…yet.

Peace out and H2P.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 7:27 am

To some of the fellas comments. With all due respect.

I haven’t seen anyone on here saying moving to the ACC was the WRONG move!!!

It was an absolute home run!!! Fantastic, teriffic, couldn’t have done better.

I personally was ecstatic!!!

However, we’re like schleprock with the cloud hanging over our head with conferences and football as of late.

Who knows, maybe Swofford will pull something out of the bag.

After reading and following this stuff for a couple of days now, I can tell you one thing…..

Adding Louisville or UCONN to get back to an even number, will not secure the conference one iota!!!

Will add nothing, and certainly no more money to any tv contracts.

Nothing against either school, but, as someone said last night, they’d just be backfill.

What’s next, Florida State leaves, and we start talking about South Florida????

Maryland moving really sucks. Thought it was gonna be quiet for awhile. Bollucks!!!!!!!!!

Comment by Dan 11.21.12 @ 7:40 am

***my eyes were to tired, and still are***

if some of you were talking about people saying why didn’t we go to the Big Ten instead of the ACC, then yes, you are correct.

No offense to Pitt, but we didn’t add another tv market, we were never in their sights.

So, my apologies if that is what you were countering.

Comment by Dan 11.21.12 @ 7:42 am

That’s why Swofford has to swing for the fences and try to land Penn State or Texas. If he cannot convince them, Pitt needs to be on the phone with the Big 12 and hope they are interested in creating an Eastern pod so WVU has traveling partners. The Big 10 doesn’t want us since we don’t offer any new TV sets. The ACC schools remaining will go where the money is. The low ball contract by ESPN has led to this. Adding UConn and Louisville won’t put a stop to this. The Big 10 has its eyes set on Virginia, NC and Ga Tech while the ACC is targeting NC St and Va Tech. Fl St, Clemson and Miami will be poached by the Big 12. The Cuse has a better shot at landing in the Big 10 than Pitt. Pitt might be screwed again. How does playing Wake, Duke and a bunch of former and existing Conference USA teams sound? The Big 12 is the better play at this point. And Texas loves Pitt. Don’t ask me why but they do.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 7:56 am

I can’t think of a $ingle good rea$on why Texa$ would leave the Big XII to join the ACC. In fact, I think the AD would be fired on the spot for even considering it.

Back when it looked like the Big XII was on its death bed, I think I read that Texas reaps something like $60M per year between the league’s TV package plus its own Longhorn Network. The ACC pays, what, $17M per year?

If Pitt’s AD proposed to leave the ACC and join the Sun Belt Conf and take a 75% pay-cut, I’d join the chorus that Stevie-P must go.

Penn State would be cool, it would resume the rivalry game. The Nits too would take a pay-cut, but at least it wouldn’t be as severe…

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 11.21.12 @ 8:51 am

@ Imma
If Texas joined the ACC revenue per team would probably increase dramatically as a new deal with ESPN would be worked out. There would probably have to be some concessions regarding Texas’ tv network though. Also, Texas would probably want to bring along some of their little Big XII brothers with them and require ND to join full-time. There would be plenty of additional revenue for all.

Comment by Floyd 11.21.12 @ 9:08 am

What ACC needs to do…
Is create an ACC network… basically copy Big10..
make more money…
therefore, won’t lose teams to other conferences.
It’s all about money…
If the money were equal… many teams would not leave..

Comment by Joe D 11.21.12 @ 9:09 am

@TX Panther – when my sons tell people where they went to school or, for that matter, when I tell people they went to Pitt, the reaction we get is, “wow, great school.” No one asks about the football or even the basketball teams. The image of Pitt, particularly in the NYC area, is one of a terrific academic institution that happens to have a long and storied history of athletic success.

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.21.12 @ 9:31 am

@TX Panther If football defines your degree, then you went to the wrong college. Seriously, your whole rant is ridiculous. Hiring managers do pay attention to what university your degree is from. As Pitt’s academic reputation grows, the value of the degree will only increase. I mean seriously you act as if being worried about academics is a bad thing for a university. I’m 100% positive that what I learned in college from good professors and good classes is more valuable than Pitt appearing in a BCS bowl game. By the way, being affiliated with other like minded universities that do a lot of research helps save money. So affiliation means something. There is a reason why most of the Big 10 universities are universities that do a ton of research.

I like how the two examples of small schools competing with the big boys is TCU and Baylor. TCU is in football crazy Texas and beat up on less motivated schools in a small conference. Now they are in the Big 12 and not doing so well. And Baylor minus the RGIII years has been pretty bad. So yeah they are great examples to point to.

Bigger schools can compete much better in the Olympic sports because they have a lot more money. And catch up to PSU in academics? Pitt and PSU are on the same level a couple spots in flawed ranking in U.S. News doesn’t really matter. It’s not like rankings are BCS polls.

Finally, you say things like “And Texas loves Pitt. Don’t ask me why but they do.” If you can’t see the appeal of Pitt then you might as well give up.

You should really save yourself the angst and pick a new university to root for.

Comment by Wardapalooza 11.21.12 @ 9:35 am

A few years ago when the Big Ten expansion talk began, I was hopefull that they would consider Pitt. But after hearing Jim Delany talk about already having the PA market covered with Penn State and looking towards the New York market, I realized that it wasn’t going to happen. It did’t matter that they had two teams in Michigan and two in Indiana while still lusting after a 3rd with Notre Dame. Yet, they didn’t need 2 teams in Pennsylvania. The Big East was unstable and it’s future didn’t look promising. We got lucky when the ACC threw Pitt a life line. It would have been smart for the ACC to take Rutgers and UConn as well, because it would have secured the New York area and the northeast.

Comment by Justinian 11.21.12 @ 10:06 am

Yep… ACC should have taken Rutgers and UConn… they were begging for a bailout…
That would have made 16 teams and they still could have added Notre Dame as “non-exclusive” and 5 games a year.
Rutgers is a better choice than Louisville.. my opinion… why, the NYmetro loves ACC basketball in addition to Big East..

Comment by Joe D 11.21.12 @ 10:15 am

Anybody know or have a link to an article which outlines what the various conferences pay to colleges??

Comment by Joe D 11.21.12 @ 10:18 am

Tx Panther let me tell you very simply that if you do not recognize the difference in value of a degree from, Stanford, Rice, Duke, UVA, Michigan
Northwestern vs. a football power like Alabama or a basketball power like Kentucky you are a doofus!!

Comment by isnore 11.21.12 @ 10:21 am

A degree by itself is nothing. And how is my degree back in 1992 any better now that the university has marginally improved its standing? Pitt is a decent mid sized school like most other Eastern public/semi public schools. I hire the best person for the job and much of that is based on one’s experience and not where they were schooled. I’m no academic elitist. I see no difference in a degree from Pitt compared to a degree from some other like school…that never tips the balance in the inetrview. There may be a difference between WVU and Pitt but thats only because the WVU grad didnt have the smarts to get into an above average school out of high school. Pitt is ONLY above average. Its overall athletic program is well below average. Pitt will NEVER become elite in either but I’d rather spend money on the athletics since there is potential to become at least average. Please dont tell me your Pitt degree is anything close to an Ivy. I’m stuck rooting for Pitt as an alumnus but I dont live in fairy land. I do brag about my school’s B-ball team. If I wanted to brag about academics, I would be on Pitt Blather for nurds. If a school invests money in their programs, success typically comes. Pitt has NOT made that investment relative to other schools (still waiting for a track Stevie). Louisville and Rutgers have. Pitt is no better academically than Rutgers and quite frankly I would take a Louisville degree and job if it meant bragging rights on the football field. Texas loves Pitt because it has a good brand (thank you Marino and Dorsett), its a new TV market and will be a whipping boy much like A&M was. But, I would rather be Texas’s bitch and be in a stable conference than an outsider looking in. The ACC is on its death bed now. Pitt had better be on the phone with Texas. On the bright side, Pitt gets the Backyard Brawl back.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 10:22 am

If I’m a doofus, must be because of my Pitt degree. Thanks for the name calling. You can do better.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 10:25 am

I got my Pitt Engineering degree in 1964. At that time Pitt wanted to get into the Ivy League and came very close to getting in.

If Pitt got into the Ivy League then, how would you like Ivy League football?


Comment by Frank MD 11.21.12 @ 10:48 am

link to

the goal should be to get on this list. It combines academics with athletics. Pitt’s Director’s Cup standings have tremendous opportunity for improvement. That’s putting it nicely.

In academic rankings, Pitt’s anywhere between 40 and 70 depending on the methodology used and none is perfect. I still don’t think we’ve caught up with Penn State on the undergrad side based on the various rankings that I see, but we are closer than we were 20 years ago and thats a good thing.

In my passionate opinion, Pitt needs to aim higher and become more balanced across all sports and academic programs. Tha’s why new leadership is needed. These are new times and require new ideas and a bold vision.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 10:49 am

Regardless of what anyone says the academic profile of the university has improved dramaticly under Nordy, which is good. Pitt will never be a Duke or Stanford. But it’s nice to see the school improve in its selectivity and in its stature as a research university. Now, what I would love to see, is contunued improvement with the football program. Winning football not only fills the seats, it draws interest, applications, and students. I remember the Majors/Sherill ereas
and there is nothing I would rather see than a return to national prominance in football.

Comment by Justinian 11.21.12 @ 10:59 am

Agreed. A good football program can help attract quality students. It worked for me.

But, Pitt lost focus over the last 15 years and has not devoted the money and resources to the football program. Some of that is caused by the AD’s alienation of boosters. Some is caused by Pitt’s lack of on the field success.

I am hopeful that a new Chancellor will focus more attention on the overall athletic side of the university with particular attention to football. As leader of the university, you have to be comfortable about talking sports and understanding the importance of balance between academics and athletics.

However, one good thing about the athletic department is that they are not operating in the red.

I’m just a believer that you have to raise and spend money using it wisely to generate success. I don’t believe that one can be cheap when it comes to football and have that result in consistent success on the field. Pitt needs to shell out the bucks for better assistant coaches and a recruiting budget that allows them to go back into Florida.

If Pitt isn’t serious in becoming competitive in sports, we might as well apply for admission into the Ivy League or go the Division 1 AA route.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 11:17 am

Good question FRANK MD. Well, it would depend, wouldn’t it???

If you were at an IVY, simplistically, I think you could break it down into 3 categories.

1. Don’t care about sports at all.

2. Go to the football games to tail gate and schmooze with other Ivy’s, and maybe you know someone on the team, so, you go, but it’s more an event than a game.

3. You are actually a college football fan.

In this case, you would cheer for your Ivy team, but whoever your main team is that you cheer for (from the town you came from, from where your parents went, from what helmet you liked as a child), would probably be the one that really mattered football-wise.

No, you wouldn’t press your Ivy team to become great, it just happens to be there, and you’ll root for them, but no big deal.

If you grew up being a Nebraska fan, and went to Columbia, your heart would be with Nebraska. If Nebraska was on at 1:00 on the tube, you would not be attending the Columbia game. (Again, pre req, that you are a college football fan. I’m sure many Ivy students could care less about sports.)

Which brings me to Pitt. Great school, love my degree, why I went, and happy to see our academic side growing. No doubts about these statements.

However, I am also a sports fan.

If you come out and tell me, “we’re here to win championships”, call me ad nauseum for donations, including to my office at work about a month ago, send mail and emails soliciting donations, threaten to move my basketball seats if I don’t donate to a higher donation level……….

then you need to produce!!!

If we’re just an academic institution, with sports as a side note, that’s fine, but, just come out and say it, so we all know where we stand!!!

If you’re telling me we’re playing big boy sports, then, people will want you to produce a good product, especially when you’re soliciting for more money often.

If sports aren’t a big deal, just come out and say so. That way, we can just cheer the boys on and root for Dear Old Alma Mater if we want, without any expectations.

If you’re telling me it’s important, and want my money, time, and to invest my heart in the program, then we should be allowed to expect a winning program.

Comment by Dan 11.21.12 @ 11:31 am

Those of you who believe Ivy League students and Alums don’t care about success in sports are woefully uninformed. There is a significant group of Yale Alumni who are up in arms because Yale has reduced the number of athletic recruits it admits from 18% to 13% of each freshman class. Admittedly, given the size of the class, this represents only about 65 student athletes but it is still creating great distress to these alums. Harvard hired Tommy Amaker (Duke) away from Michigan to coach their basketball team.

Ivy League football, while not on the level of the FBS programs, still matters to its students and alumni and not just for the tailgating.

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.21.12 @ 11:42 am

Thank you Dan for your poetic and eloquent thoughts…I mean that in all seriousness. I just need my Chancellor to tell me where we stand. He says he values athletics and is serious about winning, but I don’t see it with his actions. I give credit to Nordy for improving our academic standing (although it wasn’t all that shabby to begin with). Where Nordy fails is on the athletic front. We are 131 in the 2011/2012 Director’s Cup rank and our football team hasn’t won the Big Least conference outright…EVER. PLEASE, lets finally get serious about football and spend the money. Then lets hope we get the results. Generally, you do see substantial improvement when the money and real focus is there. And, Pitt has plenty of room to improve so I think its a wise investment.

Win or lose, I’ll ALWAYS root for Pitt in ALL sports. But, rooting for dear old alma mater is so much less frustrating when your school is a consistent winner.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 11:46 am

One thing about the Ivys, they come up with funny slogans and T-shirts. Several years ago I was at Princeton when they were playing Dartmouth and the students were selling T-shirts. The T-shirts in Dartmouth’s forest green colors with, “Duck Fartmouth” printed on the front.

Comment by Justinian 11.21.12 @ 12:06 pm

@PittDad, I wasn’t implying that. I was just giving one of the options as an “out”, before anyone started lecturing me “at Ivy league schools, academics come first” LOL

Yes, I would imagine quite a few do, as do fans at Division II, III and NAIA schools.

I would also expect, that those fans, are hoping their schools are doing everything they can to win the conference championship and national championships if available.

I have a nephew who plays hockey for Robert Morris, and he is as dedicated and given as much time as any other athlete.

Again, that was a beat em’ to the punch before someone told me, “you have your priorities all wrong”!!! LOL

I understand it’s a school first quite well!!!

If you say we want to compete in some sports, then COMPETE!!

Comment by Dan 11.21.12 @ 12:06 pm

Correction – it was “A Century of Women on Top”

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.21.12 @ 12:20 pm

Lots of hard hitting pieces all over the Net, about the money grubbing Little 11 and questioning how two debt ridden wrecklessly run athletic depts get rewarded with big pay days.

Sounds just like an athletic version of the Bank Bailouts. lol–maryland–rutgers-cash-in-on-their-incompetence-with-move-to-big-ten-19541709.html

Comment by Emel 11.21.12 @ 12:43 pm

Does not much matter why MD and RU are in the Big 10, they are in. In the race to leave the BE it looks like RU is the big, big winner…Heard on the radio today that the Big Ten payout could hit $40M per school after the next round of TV negotiations. In the long run, I don’t think they will get crushed in Big 10 FB as is being predicted. They can certainly be as competitive as Purdue and Minnesota. I think this will definitely help thier recruiting. I think all of the BE teamns recruiting was hurt by being in the BE from a perception standpoint. I also think this will make it more difficult for the PSU’s and Pitt’s to recruit NJ’s top talent away from RU. I am happy for RU and hope that good things follow for UCONN, Cincy, Liville and SFla. Those schools have worked hard to be a part of D1 football.

Comment by HbgFrank 11.21.12 @ 1:02 pm

This is one piece on Texas/ACC from about a year ago.

link to

Comment by Emel 11.21.12 @ 1:32 pm

On a basketball note:

Somebody forgot to tell NC State they had a better basketball program than PITT, as some on here suggested. That #6 pre-season sure didn’t last long.

link to

Comment by Emel 11.21.12 @ 1:34 pm

Which means that big TV game that ESPN had scheduled for Michigan#5 & then #6 NC State for this weekend isn’t going to come off as planned.
(with both being ranked back to back in the Top 10)

We can now beat Michigan tonight !

Let’s Go Pitt !

Comment by Emel 11.21.12 @ 1:38 pm

idk HbgFrank,

When I watch a college football, I’m not really calculating if this team or that team is making $15 Mil/year on TV, $5 Mil/Year or $30 Mil/year.

Case in point I’d rather watch a Boise State/ Fresno State game than Indiana/Minnesota ?

How about you ?

Comment by Emel 11.21.12 @ 1:42 pm

someone likes to cause doubt on the Blather.
(only time this person posts btw)

When Twitter done blowed up real good, Weaver clarified his initial statement (which suggested the SEC might “potentially” have some interest in Tech, not the other way around, by the way):

“We’re not in discussions with anyone. We’ve always wanted to be in the Atlantic Coast Conference. We’re there and we’re pleased to be there.

There’s nothing happening in regard to Virginia Tech going anywhere. I don’t know how to say it any clearer than that…

Comment by Emel 11.21.12 @ 2:10 pm

I’d rather watch Boise/Fresno too, but the fact is that the television contract that Indy, MN and all the other Big 10 schools are connected to is simply gigantic. Frankly, RU and MD just got a deal similar to the Pirates. They don’t even have to try and put a first rate product on the field because under the Big 10 system, they are guaranteed to make a lot of money. I’m just talking about the business end of this thing, RU hit the lottery. Does not mean they will now be on par with Mich and OSU, just that they can now be just OK, or even horrible, and make the same money that Mich and OSU haul in. It’s a great deal for the school.

Comment by HbgFrank 11.21.12 @ 2:32 pm

The whole thing makes me sick. Rutgers has done almost nothing, since playing in the first recorded college football game against Princeton, a 100 years ago. When the Big Ten expansion talk first started I had hoped they would consider Pitt.

Comment by Justinian 11.21.12 @ 2:40 pm

@Justinian – it was actually 143 years ago. Since then they did have a sprited rivalry with Lehigh and Lafayette for many years. It was known as the “Middle Three Conference” and they played for the “Little Brass Cannon”. Isn’t that something?

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.21.12 @ 2:46 pm


Comment by Pitt Dad 11.21.12 @ 2:47 pm

@Pitt Dad, don’t you have a son that plays hockey in the Ivy League, or a NYC college???

Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.

Comment by Dan 11.21.12 @ 3:31 pm

Just waiting for the governor of MD to give U MD a Christmas present that says “Hell No, You can’t go!” because most alums, fans and MD residents want you in the ACC. You never know, it could very easily happen.

Comment by pitt1972 11.21.12 @ 4:00 pm

As far as the UConn or L’Ville discussion goes, isn’t Boston College already on record in saying that UConn is out of the question? That’s how Pitt got in in the first place.

Besides, Jim Calhoun is retired now….UConn’s FB stadium is small….

Comment by Jackagain 11.21.12 @ 4:15 pm

My frame of reference is that I have a Pitt degree
1963 and an MA from The University of Pennsylvania 1965.

I am proud of both of my degrees. My Penn degree was well worth the effort because it gave me entry in to the world of broadcasting and a 37 year career in radio advertising..”Fight on Pennsylvania”!!

Pitt is my #1 school in terms of donations and by a wide margin sports interest. I bleed Blue and Gold. I, however, get charged up and emotional when I read the comments of alums like Tx Panther who place sports on such a high plane. The purpose of a University is to educate its students…not to win sporting events. Obviously if winning at sports can be achieved while maintaining and growing academic prestige ….CONGRATULATIONS.

Pitt has a proud athletic history which unfotunately has been in decline in the past decade..Smiling Steve should be fired, however, I will never accept placing academics and sports at the same priority level…NEVER!

I am curious as to whether any of the posters on this board have attended an IVY League College. I am 99% positive that you will understand where my thoughts originate.


Comment by isnore 11.21.12 @ 4:16 pm

Justinian, I think Pitt did the best it could with the move to the ACC. My guess is that Pitt had an invite from the Big 12 and knew they were in the ACC mix as well. I would bet they called the Big 10 one last time to see if they were interested before we made a choice between the ACC and Big 12. As this is all about expanding the Big 10 markets, Pitt had no shot at the Big 10. The Big 12 is no more stable than the ACC. The ACC was the correct move. We just have to ride this thing out. Hail to Pitt!

Comment by HbgFrank 11.21.12 @ 5:08 pm

Isnore, I’m not Ivy grad. The closest I come to that is through my children. One went to Princeton and two went to graduate school at Pitt. Although I followed Princeton while having someone there, I bleed Blue and Gold. I remember walking up Cardiac Hill on game days as a kid. I consider myself a Pitt guy through and through. Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Justinian 11.21.12 @ 5:12 pm

Sorry isnore but your Pitt degree is overrated. Unless you are a recent grad, experience is what matters. My undergrad from Pitt along with good references and test scores got me into a better grad school. That grad school got me a well paying job. I don’t talk academics with employees and clients. I talk sports. So sports is the higher priority and something most people connect with. This is a sports blog isn’t it???

So yes I want my degree from Pitt to now be worth something and tied to football success. My degree 20 years ago paid off but how the hell is it working for me today if I change jobs.

Stew on that Ivy leager.

Comment by TX Panther 11.21.12 @ 6:19 pm

@tx panther,

I don’t think you are a doofus… your post never stated you wanted to forego academics for athletics..You want a commitment to both, like the stanfords, michs. even the psu’s.. I’m a doofus because I would have been beaming with pride and screaming to the world I was a pitt alum if we had beat ND..not the fact that we are a top 5 research school..I’m sorry.

Comment by goalie44 11.21.12 @ 7:22 pm

Tx Panther



Comment by isnore 11.21.12 @ 7:23 pm

@Dan – nope, not me. Both my sons are Pitt Grads (hence the name), proud members of the Marching Band. We are all proud to be associated with the University of Pittsburgh. Personally, even though I grew up on LI, I have been a fan of Pitt (and the Steelers and Pirates (except for 1960) – but not the Pens) since the 60s.

Now, it is true that I played intramural hockey at an Ivy but not very well.

Comment by Pitt Dad 11.21.12 @ 8:23 pm

Ivy league schools have much healthier varsity sports than does Pitt…hell, Bucknell has about twice as many varsity sports as does Pitt.
The difference is level of athletic scholarship support versus other aid.
I recently donated to the Pitt Crew team because I admire what they do with no athletic department support.
Pitt athletics is behind the times. That can change but not as long as it treats it supporters like enemies.

Comment by SFPitt 11.21.12 @ 8:25 pm

Ok Pitt Dad. Must have been someone else. Someone on here has a son or nephew that plays hockey for Cornell or Dartmouth or someone.

Steve1, is it you by chance???

Comment by Dan 11.21.12 @ 8:55 pm

why is the big ten network in demand. i have watcheted it occasionally but its nothing great. no good games, maybe i am not a big ten guy thats the reason i dont care for it. does anyone like the network, and what are its benefits

Comment by teezy 11.22.12 @ 10:40 am

Those schools are huge and have the larges alumni base in the US and with retirees living across the US, the fan base is wider than the footprint of the schools.

Comment by sfpitt 11.22.12 @ 10:47 am

yeah i do understand that point, and they r all state schools. but to bring in that much money seems a little high to me. also so bringing in rutgers also brings in the rest of the ny area i find that to be a stretch. thats like the acc saying they wanted pa, and wv tv markets so they brought pitt in. my wvu friends are not watching pitt, if they do its to watch them lose.

Comment by teezy 11.22.12 @ 10:57 am

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