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August 20, 2012

Sack City?

Filed under: Coaches,Football,Players — Reed @ 11:34 am

It might be a good and timely idea to review exactly what transpired last season between the OL play and the QB play given that every PITT fan is deathly afraid that we’ll have a repeat of 2011’s 64 sacks allowed, with 422 yards lost by them, debacle.  Hey, I can’t remember anytime in the past where PITT led the nation in sacks given up.  That one issue, perhaps more than any other, was responsible for our offense not being consistent enough to win more games.

It wasn’t just that we lost any old down on those plays.  I’m not going to go through the 2011 season in minute detail but it’s safe to say that the majority of those sacks came on third down passing plays.  You know what that did?  Put us at #109 nationally in 3rd down conversion percentage at 37%.  You can’t score touchdowns if you can’t get 1st downs. Plain and simple.  On top of that each sack moved us backwards 6.6 yards. Playing football while going backwards isn’t the best formula for success as everyone but Todd Graham knows.

In addition, here’s another hidden negative result of those sacks;  Sunseri did very well at running with the football when a play was either called for the QB run or when he exercised the QB option that Todd Graham liked so well.  On the season Sunseri had, excluding sacks, 510 yards on 90 carries for a 5.7 average.  That was on 90 carries folks, not just a scramble here and there like most QBs do but purposefully moving the ball forward using the QB’s legs.  Take away 422 of those yards because of the sacks and that is a big benefit we had washed down the drain.

In a nutshell, sacks took away needed third downs conversions and squandered lots of positive rushing yardage by the QB.  So, the question is why did they occur and more importantly, why so often?  The second question is what can we do to avoid a repeat.

It is easy to look at the season and point the finger directly at Sunseri for what happened.  After all, it seemed like whenever we were in crunch time he panicked and made fundamental mistakes.  He was the visible face and poster boy for our problems.  But that isn’t the whole story.

If you remember back in 2010 Sunseri was sacked 23 times, about an average year for college football teams. That was in an offense with both TEs and a FB to pass block, and executed by the QB much like this 2012 offense will be with five and seven step drops incorporated.  A basic and simple framework for passing plays.

Fast forward to 2011 when Graham overhauls the offense and institutes two drastically new aspects of offensive play that really negatively effected the OL and QB. The no-huddle’s 18 second target between when the play was called dead (not when the ball was placed and the play was whistled in by the ref) and the next snap, combined with the sped up “one, two, (three,) go!” passing timing.

That hurry up aspect of the passing game affected our passing game two ways.  First, it burnt out the OL who were physically big players recruited to play in a previous system that had a lot more time in between snaps.  That no-huddle time limit required these huge players to sprint from wherever they were on the field back to the LOS instead of walking back to a huddle and having 10-15 seconds of down time to catch a breath and recover from the previous play.  Imagine that, an OL does his job and downfield blocks in front of a RB then has to turn around and sprint back to the huddle.

It is true other teams run these no-huddle offenses but overall they recruit linemen who are a physical type for it and, most importantly, have a few years to get those lineman into the shape needed to play that type of ball successfully.  Neither of those things applied to PITT in 2011.

Last season Sunseri took a lot more sacks after halftime and especially in the fourth quarter because the OL was tired as hell out there. It killed us late in the games when the outcome was most on the line. We saw that starting in the Iowa 4th quarter when we couldn’t generate any offense at all to get needed 1st downs because Graham refused to run out the clock and give his offensive players a rest out there.

Secondly, Graham’s offense forced Sunseri to try to quick hit WRs who were told to “run to a zone and wait for the ball”.  There were little or no set timing routes for the WRs last season and it frustrated both the WRs and the QB. So, instead of absolutely knowing where the WRs would be at any point during a play Sunseri had to use quick judgement to try to find a target.

Add onto that the fact that Graham didn’t have any formal “Check Down” progressions in his passing game during the first half of the year; a system where the 1st, 2nd and 3rd receivers have specific routes to run, and it compounded the possibility for delays and errors.  If Sunseri couldn’t get to his 1st receiver because of coverage he had to search around for his other two outlets, he couldn’t automatically know where they would be  because the WRs had no responsibility to be in an exact spot.  All that took extra time the OL couldn’t give him.

What fans say about Sunseri “holding the ball too long” was on him on some plays of course, but it was really only ‘too long’ in that hurry up and pass offense. IMO, the real problems were much more the result of trying to force feed an offense to players not ready to play that type of football.

Throw in the three major injuries on the OL and there was a real perfect storm combination for the pass protection disaster we saw last season. There certainly were the breakdowns by Sunseri himself, some maddening as hell like in the last series or two of the WVU game. He made bonehead decisions and was shell shocked at the end of some games.  But across the whole season it wasn’t just Sunseri himselfout there making mistakes, it was the culmination of a lot of bad planning and bad things out on the field combined with key injuries.

Paul Chryst and Joe Rudolph will rectify these problems by going back to a normalized offense.  We’ve already seen in spring practice and camp how important the TEs are going to be this season.  To most everyone that means catching passes and they will do that.  But as importantly, Sunseri will have either Graham or J. P. Holtz giving him that added pass protection which was lacking in Graham’s WR heavy offense.

A lot of Bill Stull’s success was due to the fact that he had Nate Byham doing just that for him.  Also, the FB will be an integral part of the offense again and will add the same extra protection the TEs do. Giubilato and Durham, if eligible, will be good at this I think.

The OL won’t be running unnecessary 20 yards sprints between plays all game and that will pay off later in the game as they will be fresher.  The OL we have now are big boys, perhaps the biggest ones we have had in years, and have been recruited for just this drop back (vice 100% shotgun)  passing attack.

Of course, and just like in any season, injuries hold the key.  Last year we lost the three of the better OL we had in Jacobson, Nix and Rotheram.  It killed us especially when compounded with the above situations.  This years OL is solid but we’ll see how well the second string does.  However, just the fact that we are shedding the Graham offense and allowing these kids to play the type football they are used to and came to PITT or again has to give us an inherent advantage over last season.





I think there was another aspect of Graham OLine philosophy..
The OL were told to read/block… so if the different lineman read differently, it screwed up the blocking. (Graham)
vs.
The center or QB calling out the blocking assignments or adjustments at the line of scrimmage based upon what he saw therefore everyone on the same page. (pro-set)

Comment by Joe D 08.20.12 @ 11:47 am

Good point Joe and one that I forgot to address. Thanks.

Comment by Reed 08.20.12 @ 11:56 am

Totally agree with this post, I truly believe that chryst offense and the correcting of mistakes now rather than week 5/6 of the season will make a huge difference for sunseri and everyone else on o-just gotta stay healthy up front.

Comment by John 08.20.12 @ 12:02 pm

Thank you for the write up

Comment by H.LandPitt 08.20.12 @ 12:02 pm

Marco,
Read Reed’s comment above…. 😉 lmao

Joeeee…. this is your conscience speaking… do not LMAO any longer….

Comment by Joe D 08.20.12 @ 12:04 pm

Reed,

There’s one aspect to the sacks that you overlooked.

Tino is a one-track minded type of guy. When he becomes focused on one thing like a receiver, he becomes oblivious to everything else going on around him.

There is one sack that comes to mind in the Maine game where this was really evident.

Sunseri stood in the pocket staring at the receiver down field waiting for him to come free. At the same time a blitzing linebacker was closing in as Tino stood there like a statue seemingly with no idea he was about to be sacked.

This has nothing to do with intelligence, just the way some people’s minds operate.

Changes in offensive schemes and blocking can help but this is always going to be a problem for Tino. It’s plagued him throughout his career.

Comment by PittofDreams 08.20.12 @ 12:10 pm

Reed, great post and great timing too, just in time to read over lunch.

A couple thoughts as well: If nothing else, running fewer total plays and fewer dropbacks per series, etc ought to reduce the total numbers of sacks.

Like you say, the offense is going to be better built to protect Tino than last year, but what worries me is not your day-to-day garden variety sack, but those crucial game killers. You know, the ones Tino specializes in. The ones that turn a 35 yard field goal try into a 47 yarder that gets pushed to right. Or those lovely moments when the defense gets a big stop and Tino takes a massive sack to hemorrhage field position and momentum. Those aren’t going anywhere.

I am aware Tino is still the team’s best option, and I will of course root for him on game day. But I also expect–as most rational objective observers would, based on the available evidence–that he will make boneheaded plays that cost Pitt at least one game.

Remember, Tino has never, EVER led a 2nd-half comeback win.

Comment by TartanPanther 08.20.12 @ 12:16 pm

Newss Flash the fraud graham is,History

Comment by 63Team 08.20.12 @ 12:24 pm

Tartan – we’ll have sacks, mistakes, losses… in other words every player will have to contribute to wins and every player contributes to losses also.

The post wasn’t to say Sunseri won’t make mistakes – that will happen. But what I didn’t address above, because it would turn into a novel-length post, is that I think the overall comfort level that was not only missing but crushed by Graham is going to be much different for Sunseri this year.

I always try to post these articles late at night or first thing in the morning so readers have something with their coffee or at lunchtime when they can break from work.

Comment by Reed 08.20.12 @ 12:26 pm

PittofDreams — very much agree with your comment, it does seem like Tino gets locked in, but in his defense, he doesn’t know where else to turn to because his recievers did not know where to go in the system. And I buy that. I think 2010 is a useful reference point for sacks, and I think something in the 20s will be about where Pitt ends up

Reed – I fully agree that every player shares responsibility for victory or defeat, but I also think its fair to say that for most teams in most games, the QB shoulders one of the larger shares. Especially here, with a 5th year senior–albeit in his 3rd offensive system in 3 years. What I hope is that Tino pulls a Bill Stull–however, Stull had shown flashes of potential in 2008–before his very nice 2009 campaign–until he suffered a concussion against Rutgers which seemed to throw him off his game the rest of the year, including the Sun Bowl.

I really think with Pitt’s schedule 8 or 9 wins is not unrealistic to think about . . . but I also think this Pitt team is 3 years removed from its last big come from behind win (over UNC in Car Bowl ’09). SOMEONE — maybe not Tino, maybe not even an offensive player–has to IMO bring a bit of mojo for those comeback wins, because if Pitt can steal a win or two–and when, really, was the last time Pitt stole a win, 2009 again, UConn–then we can really talk 8, 9, wins and a successful season

Comment by TartanPanther 08.20.12 @ 12:56 pm

This offense does sound like a less risky proposition than last year. However, most of the arguments I hear in support of Tino seem to boil down to: ‘If everything else goes right, he has a chance to be slightly better than average.’

I think the thing that seperates talented/effective QBs from not so effective ones is they can still come up with positive plays — or at least not frequently horribly negative ones — when things don’t line up perfectly for them. If everybody made their blocks every play, every WR ran a perfect route every time, every coach called the perfect formation every time, most QBs would look like HOF material.

Comment by Matt N. 08.20.12 @ 1:31 pm

I watched the spring game from the field but have not seen the two scrimmages so I can’t assess progress.

Tino has a decent arm, bad footwork and a slow release. His poor throw on 3rd and short against Iowa was a direct result of the bad footwork.
I read that Chryst took him to task recently with a vulgar tirade.
OK, if that alone works then everyone who played football before 1980 would be in the Hall of Fame.
I get the sense that Chryst focuses on the little things and not his SYSTEM.
If the recent tirade was because bad mechanics caused a bad decsion to be worse, then I hope it was followed by technique work.
Why do I write this? Because last year is done. Graham is an asshole, everyone knows it and he caused most of his own grief.
BUT, focusing on 2012 means it is time to stop looking in the mirror for everyone.
The line play we agree will be better; these stats suggest they can’t get no worse (name that tune guys).
But as long as we use bad technique, we will falter under pressure like a golfer with a great round going but no muscle memory on which to build. Like Jim Furyk on 5 hour energy in a 5 and a half hour round.
Tell me about Tino’s mechanics, his timing and the skills he has improved on and I can tell you if we have hope for a very good season.

Comment by sfpitt 08.20.12 @ 1:38 pm

Reed, you really answered your own first question extremely well. Nice piece of research and commentary on the problems that were. To answer your second question, “what can we do to avoid a repeat”? FIRE TODD GRAHAM! Well, we’re a little behind the curve on that one, aren’t we?

What we will find out right quick, is if your analysis holds water or not, because we are going to face one sack happy defense when VA Tech comes to town. If we can hold up under that jail break that they’re going to throw at us, then we’ll be just fine going forward in the season, barring injury on the O line.

VA Tech is also going to be a good barometer on whether “special team coaching by committee” is working out well or not for the Panthers. Beamer Ball is actually pretty impressive when you figure how effective this club’s special teams have been over the years, shifting momentum of games by establishing an entirely higher level of play for their special teams.

Most feel that the Cincy game is the key early contest to determine Pitt’s fortunes going forward, considering that it’s a conference foe and that the game comes on a short prep week. I see that game as a slight surprise upset win for the Panthers.

The game that I think is the sleeper upset game for Pitt this year is this VA Tech contest. My spin on this game is that the Hokies will be looking past us and will be in a coasting mode if they have already knocked off Georgia Tech in their season home opener nationally televised game on Labor Day night.

I live in Virginia and I can report, without a doubt, that we are being lumped together with Austin Peay (week before us) and Bowling Green(week after us) as the really soft part of VA Tech’s schedule. Nobody down here is even considering this game as being competitive, let alone as a trap game that could end up as an upset loss for them.

The two keys for an upset will be keeping that defense of theirs off of Sunseri. They are good and are very effective in pressuring the QB and getting sacks. They return nine starters on defense.

The second key will be how well our defense pressures their QB. Va Tech is rebuilding the offense this year and a dominating front four like we are showing the potential of having, could really spell trouble for them on offense.

The other hidden stat of this contest will be the historical tendency that this team has to under perform and loose a game early that they shouldn’t have lost. A couple years ago they coughed up a loss to James Madison University a Div IAA school just up the road from them on Interstate 81. JMU is still talking about that win!

All I know is that I’m going to be rooting hard for VA Tech to knock off GA Tech on Sept 3rd, because nothing could be better to serve a a cup or warm milk to put them into sleepy mode then a big opening victory, then an easy win the following week at another home game against Austin Peay.

Then, they show up unprepared, and expect to mail in a win against the Panthers at Heinz Field. Not so fast my friends, yes, it was quite a while ago, back when all of these football players were just playing midget football but the record shows that Pitt currently holds a three win streak in this series. I just hope that Beamer can’t get it through those guys thick heads that if they don’t show up to play that they might just get their noses bloodied up here in Pittsburgh.

Now THAT would be a signature win for Paul Chyrst and Co. right off the bat, huh? I would love nothing more than to be able to have those bragging rights for the year. Especially coming into the ACC the following season. Wouldn’t it be nice to say, ” Hi ACC, thanks for having us, good to be here, BTW we ate your conference champion’s lunch when we played them up at Pitt last year and we’re feeling kind of hungry again so move over, time to eat”. Could happen.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.20.12 @ 1:56 pm

@tartanpanther – How many 2nd half comebacks have you led your team to? How many high school state titles have you won? if your day job, whatever it is, were held to the scrutiny that you hold Tino to, you would probably come up short as well.
I don’t know you, but I do not from your posts that you do not like Tino and you probably never will. He can do no right in your eyes and everything is always his fault.

Comment by Ghost of Pete Gonzalez 08.20.12 @ 2:18 pm

Dr. Tom,
btw… I was the first to call Graham nothing but a SnakeOil Salesman… in August of last year.
I was supportive of Graham until then…
I was hammered all fall in PG blog..

oh, and anyone who has a problem with vulgar language in football (ie. F-bomb)…. should not be playing football. Go put on a skirt and get pom poms and be a cheerleader on the sideline.

Comment by Joe D 08.20.12 @ 2:23 pm

The biggest thing I will be looking for, that I have harped on ad nauseum the last 3 or 4 coaches, will the “fog” finally be lifted.

I can’t even put into words what I mean about the “fog”, but after 4 or 5 games, I’ll be able to tell.

The best I can tell you, is, it’s a sense of whether the kids know what they are doing. Will there be motion penalties on the first drive?? Will there be 10 men on the field, only to get the 11th guy on as the play has allready started. etc. etc.

Is there basically someone in charge, and knows what he’s doing, and has the kids knowing what is going on.

There will be some growing pains, especially the first few games, but, by mid-season, we’ll be able to tell if the “fog” has been lifted.

Is someone correcting these mistakes, so that they do not happen every game??

Not even a win/loss thing, more of a feeling you get just watching from the stands or on the tube.

Comment by Dan 08.20.12 @ 2:27 pm

Actually, a poster on here told me a good way to tell, can’t remember who.

How many times a game will you be saying or thinking, WTF while watching a Pitt game.

I’m eager to hope those days are over with Coach Chryst!!

Comment by Dan 08.20.12 @ 2:29 pm

Joe D. You have a continual problem with reading things in context.

My point about the vulgarity wasn’t disapproval at all, quite the opposite in fact. I used the word to emphasize the level of anger Chryst unleashed on Sunseri. Given Chryst’s public demeanor and courteousness it was not just a 180 degree turn but done at full speed.

Comment by Reed 08.20.12 @ 2:34 pm

Tartan – I think you are short changing Sunseri when you refer to Stull showing flashes of potential as opposed to Sunseri’s previous play.

Both Chas and I posted rather extensive articles on here about the reality behind Sunseri play – as in how many good games he had and how many truly bad games he had. The reality is that he’s played darn well sometimes over the last two years, play poorly in some and the majority of his games were like what an average college QB would produce.

I really believe that PITT fans take the easy way out when they blame every problem PITT had last year on the QB. They put Sunseri on top of the roof wrapped in the tin foil of blame and wait for the rain and lightning of criticism to pour from the grey skies of defeat.

Was that an awesome sentence or not?!

Comment by Reed 08.20.12 @ 2:41 pm

Reed if tino is better this year then every thing you wrote is right.
but if tino is tino once more than it is all on him.
Dan sept 1 is all most here 10 and 2 dan have fath it can be done.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.20.12 @ 2:52 pm

Reed…
my comment regarding vulgarity was directed to sfpitt… he “seemed” to suggest it doesn’t work and ended in 1980.
I’m perfectly ok with Chryst going double barrels at whomever…

Comment by Joe D 08.20.12 @ 2:55 pm

I’m somewhat confident that Tino will have no more than 30 sacks this year, but will he be able to drive the team down the field in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line? I’m far less confident of that.

I would think that vulgarity is very effective in the right situations as long as it isn’t overused. Language can be quite demonstrative and powerful as well as colorful. I’m sure that I’ll be yelling WTF at Tino far more often than Chryst.

Comment by TX Panther 08.20.12 @ 3:22 pm

Frankcan – that’s not a direct correlation to the number of sacks we have. If we have 64 sacks this season I’ll say it isn’t all on him, just like I said about last season.

Comment by Reed 08.20.12 @ 3:25 pm

I didn’t take SFPITT’s comments that way at all. I don’t think he gave his opinion on foul language.

I could be wrong, but I think what he was implying, was the coaches of yore’, 50’s, 60’s and 70’s were a lot more “salty” and “crass” and pretty much every practice was pretty much a two hour diatribe of foul language.

In the “modern” era, mid 80’s or so and all of the games being on t.v. and the advent of the computer, with kids being able to find out how others are being treated, coaches have to watch.

Does it still go on, of course, but many coaches have been caught bereating a player on camera or recorder, and it has become an embarrassment to them, the team and the university over the last 10-20 years.

I think he meant screaming and cussing at kids of today, will not work like it used too. Once in awhile, sure, but, everyday, the kids won’t tolerate it in this day and age. If it starts happening everyday, the kids will tune out.

I could be way off, and certainly would never speak for SFPITT, but that was my take on his words.

@FRANKCAN, yes, it’s a comin’ brother!!

Comment by Dan 08.20.12 @ 3:38 pm

Oh, about his remark about the HOF, if swearing really worked, the players from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s would all be HOF’ers, because that is all they got at practice, a continual barrage of vulgarities.

Comment by Dan 08.20.12 @ 3:41 pm

Vulgarity smulgarity! Vulgarity is contextual. Some of us have cleaned up our mouths for various reasons. Mine is grandkids. On this blog we mostly treat each other with respect and avoid using it toward each other and hopefully not toward players. Vulgarity in the heat of a football scrimmage including that by a coach toward a player is usually ok as long as it’s not abusive. Sounds like Tino had a message directed at him that he needed to hear. Remember the punch line from the old joke “First you’ve got to get his attention.”

Comment by opfim 08.20.12 @ 3:48 pm

I see where the hoopies were named top party school again this year. At least they’re good for something.

Comment by longsufferingpittfan 08.20.12 @ 3:52 pm

Dan, frankcan, etc…
You should go to some practices, etc at Aliquippa HS… fbomb away.. as well as talk about your mother, brother, etc.
And somehow 6 1st round NFL draft picks came out of there… and more wpial championships than any other HS.
Coach Z. was questioned about it… his response.. He was a English teacher… he said he enunciates it properly and used it in the sentence correctly!!

Comment by Joe D 08.20.12 @ 3:57 pm

It’s time to say something positive about Tino.

He’s a tough SOB… with a head as a hard as a rock… and the guy doesn’t quit.

OK, I’ve said it.

Now, if Tino can’t turn it around this year with all the great coaching he’s getting from PC and BB… then it doesn’t matter what he did in high school, Big-33 included.

It’s on him.

Comment by PittofDreams 08.20.12 @ 4:01 pm

Joe D.

I didn’t “suggest” anything and I swear all fucking day long. But if that is all I do, then it doesn’t amount to much.
Want to ask me a question, ask me a questionthen. You don’t know me very well. I don’t suggest shit. I say precisley what I mean.

Comment by sfpitt 08.20.12 @ 4:16 pm

Tino is tough and a competitor. I just question what’s between the ears sometimes.

Comment by TX Panther 08.20.12 @ 4:18 pm

My nephew’s daughter just enrolled at ASU because her dad now works in Phoenix. Also my step daughter’s boy friend graduated from ASU. And my hometown high school coach was Frank Kush (a great coach). Talk about coincidence. It will be interesting what happens next there.

Comment by Frank 08.20.12 @ 4:41 pm

Palko and Bostic were tough competitors played on straight guts alot of times. I have yet seen that from Sunseri consistently in a real game scenarios. He has a chance though to prove it (hoping he does). Any word on how everyone feels about the assistant coaches any upcoming stars (not talking about recruiting just actual coaching)?

Comment by Sean 08.20.12 @ 4:42 pm

“Does it still go on, of course”, is what I stated.

No, don’t need to go, I have a tough enough time keeping from knocking out little league and hockey coaches, let alone some other parents.

Comment by Dan 08.20.12 @ 4:44 pm

Also, why I never have any guns in the car!! LOL

Comment by Dan 08.20.12 @ 4:46 pm

Hey Ghost, lighten up on TartanPanther, he speaks the truth about Tino’s lack of bringing home a win from behind up to this point. I like Tino as a person, as I think many Panther fans do, it is only his QB play that has me frustrated. Nothing would make me happier than Sunseri finishing his Pitt career with a stellar season. I think Coach Chryst would really appreciate that too for his first season as HC, you betcha. As Princess Leaha has so aptly put, “Please help us Tino Sunseri, you’re our only hope”.

@ JoeD, if you were, in fact, the 1st one to term Todd Graham a “snakeoil salesman” then I commend you for your insite. You were right on apparently. I’m just wondering how long Graham’s dog & pony show can run out there before everybody at ASU starts to smell the doo doo that they have on their shoe?

@ Reed, what descriptive writing skills! I’m impressed, you keep that up and you’ll find yourself composing a novel soon.

@ sfpitt, I have a question for you. Do you always suger coat your responses that way? I bet you fucking do.

And finally, Tino has the potential for success, he needs two things to accomplish that IMO, first, confidence acquired from having previous success, a real catch 22 there. I guess he just needs a big brake to get it going, and second, and I am sincere on this point, that Valium Rx mentioned in a previous thread. A calm mind thinks fast and clearly, both of which traits abandon him when he is under pressure.

Hail to Pitt, gentlemen.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.20.12 @ 5:02 pm

Dr. Tom – I’ve written two thank you. Written when I was out of college and not yet in the Coast Guard, both mysteries and both bought by Random House and never published which is fine by me. You’ve heard of drunk calling? I was drunk writing but the thing was I didn’t have the skill of actual writers who were drunk.

They truly sucked but Random House had me sign a five year “right of first refusal” for $500 each so if I wrote anything longer than a 2000 word magazine article that didn’t suck they could publish it.

This is much more fun.

Comment by Reed 08.20.12 @ 5:18 pm

I believe wbb was first on the snake oil salesman!!

Comment by Dan 08.20.12 @ 5:41 pm

Comment by Dan 08.20.12 @ 5:56 pm

I wonder which assaults are lawful in hoopietown?

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 08.20.12 @ 6:58 pm

JD yes every one does it on the field all ways have.

Comment by FRANKCAN 08.20.12 @ 7:27 pm

Dr. Tom your post at 5:02 mentions Graham’s dog & pony show and I had to laugh because I know that you made a RARE mistake…dog & Penni show somehow got lost on your keyboard….keep up the good comments they are highly appreciated.

Comment by isnore 08.20.12 @ 7:41 pm

Reed, a most epic sentence! And Dr. Tom, I very much agree with you–I like Tino as person, but his play frustrates me beyond belief.

I’ll say a few positive things to Tino out of fairness:

1.) His athleticism is seriously underrated. He is not a running QB per se, but definitely a QB who can run
2.) He takes criticism well–from his dad, his coaches, the media, us fans–he’s never fired any cheap shots back, even when he’s had chances, and I definitely respect that
3.) He tries really hard to be a team leader, and I do think the team responds to that. With all the coaching changes, I think that counts for a lot.

I am really and truly rooting for Tino. Few things would make me happier than to see him go out there and win 10 games and make people like me look like idiots. I’ll resist the urge to add any negativity, because I do think Pitt can have a good year. Hail to Pitt!

Comment by TartanPanther 08.20.12 @ 8:52 pm

I’m guessing that someone from Rice was the first to call Fraud Graham a “snake oil salesmen” or perhaps someone from his elementary or middle school.

Comment by opfim 08.20.12 @ 9:01 pm

I’m 100% in agreement with you on all of those Tino points, TartanPanther, especially about him having broad shoulders when it comes to taking criticism. I too would love to see him make believers out of all of us this season. If anybody on the team deserves to have a little redemption thrown his way, it sure enough is Tino.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.20.12 @ 9:03 pm

Lets give Tino a clean slate this yr. Fair?

Comment by alcofan 08.20.12 @ 9:36 pm

alcofan, I agree, agree agree! Let’s get off of the kid’s case until he does or doesn’t do something over several real games. The stuff before that HCPC and staff will deal with.

Comment by opfim 08.20.12 @ 10:32 pm

I have seen a few defenses of Tino in the above threads. Is he the best to play QB at Pitt in the past ten years? Probably not… However, the kid has gotten PLANTED on his A$$ harder last year than many QBs… He got up every damn time!!

For that I will support this kid every gameday!

Hail to Pitt!!

Comment by Conservative Panther 08.20.12 @ 10:44 pm

I apologize for ranting/venting fellas, but damn you guys sound like abused wives…’he really loves me’, ‘he really is a good person, deep down’. Where’s your pride? We are the U of Pitt, baby! Home of Matt Cavanaugh, Danny Marino, Tyler Palko and other great to good QBs…we deserve better than this! Demand more and you will get it — settle and make excuses/co-enable, and 6-7 or 7-5 with embarrassing losses is what you’ll get.

I love what I’m hearing about Chryst and really love hearing he laid into Tino…who by all I’ve gathered over the past three years is constantly making excuses for his performance and always referring to “We” not “I” when it comes to HIS needing to get better. I think that is what drives me the most nuts…total lack of accountability. Chryst will lose his sh#t when Tino takes 3-4 totally avoidable sacks versus VTech and chucks a few wayward wobblers for good measure…Anderson and Voytik better be as ready as they can be — or maybe go modified wildcat with Ronald Jones…who throws a pretty nice ball.

Comment by Matt N. 08.20.12 @ 11:01 pm

i love your comment matt n and i agree 100%. coaching last season was to blame for some of the losses, but tino also had his fair share of follies that led to losses. the ship has sailed on him and we need to move on. i’ve said it before and i will say it again, when the time comes for him to get his diploma, i will be the first to hand it to him and show him immediately where the door is. lets move on already. tino is a great practice player, but poor gameday player, what many would call a choke artist. we’ve seen his resume, now lets open the audition to someone else

Comment by pittisit37 08.21.12 @ 1:21 am

Dan, FWIW, I called Graham a snake-oil salesman the day of his hiring press conference which I heard over the Fan 93.7 .. back in January, 2011. He was bragging away about his high octane offense at Tulsa but when he was asked about his 111th ranked defense, he glossed right over it and went back to offensive talk.

BTW, I thought Pitt’s defense was much better than the offense under his realm, mainly because, as Reed pointed out, the entire offense was in disarray.

In his 1st year starting in 2010, Tino had 23 sacks, 17 Tds and 10 Ints – 8 wins. In 2011, he had 60 sacks, 10 Tds, 11 Ints (and 6 wins) despite passing 99 more times than the year before.

Tino will never be a great QB but my guess he will be much more like 2010 than 2011.

Comment by wbb 08.21.12 @ 7:22 am

Unfortunately your preaching to the choir guys. Whether you want to accept it of not, right now, realisticly, without a doubt and believe me I hate to say this, “Tino gives us the best chance to win”. Ouch, that stung just saying it.

Soooo,,,,, ITS TINO TIME! Coach him up Chyrst, thats why you got hired to do. You pull that off during your first season and you will quickly become a beloved head coach for the Panthers.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.21.12 @ 7:27 am

Regarding the all-important QB situation…

Anderson is apparently back on the field after giving his tendonitis some rest.

But Voytik making strides to hold onto No. 2.

I’m assuming that before YSU we’ll be hearing about a No. 4 QB to be named as a reserve.

Comment by PittofDreams 08.21.12 @ 7:33 am

Like I said earlier… there are no excuses for Tino this year.

If Chryst can’t coach him up… no one can.

Hoping Tino sees the light.

Comment by PittofDreams 08.21.12 @ 7:38 am

Tino has zero pocket awareness.

That is his bigggest problem by far. He has enough of everything else to be successful. He doesn’t feel the pressure coming. It is like he has no peripheral vision. Good QBs have that sixth sense.

I don’t see that being teachable. I think we will see more of him running straight into defensive linemen.

I too, hope I am wrong and wish him luck.

Comment by notrocketscience 08.21.12 @ 7:47 am

Thank you for the root canal Doc. But, you are correct. Tino gives us the best chance to win at this point in the season. I do admire his toughness. And its not his fault Wanny appointed him quarterback. But, he is now a soon to be 25 year old 5th year senior with limited upside. By now, he shouldn’t be making the same mistakes he made as a frosh. Can he be serviceable and not make mistakes that cost Pitt games? Maybe. But I don’t expect him to win us any when the clock is ticking down and Tino has to lead the team down the field for the win. I will most likely be cussing like a sailor again this year watching him play.

Comment by TX Panther 08.21.12 @ 7:57 am

Hopefully Riley, Coach’s dog, is a Therapy Dog and can work some magic on Tino.

Comment by steve1 08.21.12 @ 8:21 am

Correct, pocket awareness is not one of Tino’s fortes, neither does he possess a seamless progression check on all available receivers before he pulls the trigger. The only upside to this is the system installed this year. It’s already been analysed to death on how this may positively impact Sunseri’s performance but we’ll know for sure in about a month on whether this is going to be of any benefit. However, this is NOT all on Tino. The O line, TEs and blocking backs can all make Tino’s lack of pocket awareness a mute point if they fulfill their assignments and give him the time to make his decision and get the ball out.

As I previously pontificated, VA Tech will be the acid test on this subject. Their defense is big, mean and NOT green with nine returning starters. And they produced like 36 sacks last season. Holy cow, I’d be licking my chops if I was a defensive end for VA Tech, “would you like bar-B-Q sauce with your Tino sir”?

I hope not, but we’ll see soon enough.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.21.12 @ 9:00 am

Matt N.- Constantly criticizing a player and never giving that kid any credit at all is not going to make him, the team, the staff or the program one iota better.

You don’t think Paul Chryst had been told over and over what Sunseri’s problems were? You don’t think Chryst and staff watched tapes from last year? Of course they did and have and yet they are going to put Sunseri out on the field based on their idea of who is in the best position for PITT to win football games.

Ranting and raving on blogs and message boards won’t change that nor should it. The minute we have a HC who bends to outside demands on who to play is the minute we are doomed.

On your other point – there were plenty of times last season where Sunseri said “I have to play better”. You are exaggerating his use of the word ‘we’. But honestly, as soon as he starts talking about himself in the first person fans will jump on him for being self centered.

Comment by Reed 08.21.12 @ 10:02 am

Voytik had his best day of the camp yesterday, last night actually, and is most probably starting to cement that #2 spot. If he keeps progressing like this he’ll have Sunseri understanding that there actually is a QB on the bench who can be put in in his place. Chryst was asked about the QB2 job and basically deflected the question but Voytik kept taking the bulk of those snaps.

That’s something Sunseri never had over his first two years. There was no way either DW or TG was going to start someone else in his place either during camps or the season. Now, whether or not his play will be better because of that is to be seen but my feeling is that Chryst has had some serious talks about what it takes to keep the starting job with Sunseri.

I want Sunseri to be productive this year and I think he can be. But if the staff isn’t 100% set on redshirting Voytik then I want to see him get snaps early on in the season. Voytik seems to have acclimated himself to the pace and demands of a college camp since getting more reps and that would probably also be true in getting snaps early in real competition even if it is only mop up duty.

Comment by Reed 08.21.12 @ 10:14 am

Voytik and redshirt are two words that should not be used together in the same sentence… just like legitimate and rape.

Comment by PittofDreams 08.21.12 @ 10:46 am

you can’t have pocket awareness if there is no pocket

Comment by wbb 08.21.12 @ 10:52 am

Ah hah, but can you be aware that there is no pocket?

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.21.12 @ 2:04 pm

You can be aware there is no pocket and even if it is closing in on you, lol.

It is also a good idea not to run into the side of the pocket for no apparent reason.

Comment by notrocketscience 08.21.12 @ 2:15 pm

Reed — Not interested in hurting anyone’s feelings but its not my job to make Tino or anyone else feel better even if they stink, either. And what makes you think I’m delusional enough to think I can “bend” Chryst’s views? That is delusional. The kid has benefitted massively from nepotism and Wanny’s thin QB cupboard…and everyone knows it. Sorry if its upsetting to you, but I just call’em like I see’em. He can shut me up by having a good year…which I root for, but I’ve seen too much to take on that delusion either I’m afraid.

Comment by Matt N. 08.21.12 @ 2:21 pm

Yeah, point well taken, notrock, It was overheard when Chryst was coaching Sunseri on scrambling techniques, “if you find it essential to run into someone when escaping the pocket, try to pick somebody in the same colored jersey as you as your 1st choice”.

Now that’s good coaching advice.

Comment by Dr. Tom 08.21.12 @ 3:08 pm

Matt N. I’m not upset at all but you yourself said this…

“Demand more and you will get it — settle and make excuses/co-enable, and 6-7 or 7-5 with embarrassing losses is what you’ll get.” and I was assuming you were talking about fellow commenters/fans demanding more. If that was the case my reply to you was correct.

Now, if you were talking about the football staff demanding more then it makes sense.

I don’t feel the need to protect Sunseri, have at it.

Comment by Reed 08.21.12 @ 5:36 pm

Just saying that many folks are stating 7-5 is okay for them and Tino would help deliver that. But I’m not okay with that — I want 10-2 or 11-1, and if Tino can’t ( he can’t) deliver that, then give Anderson or Voytik a shot. I marvel at how so many writers on this blog keep saying Tino is lightyears ahead of the other QBs — yet watch what we all did last year with his horrendous play…seperate from any ‘system’ issues. Someone very helpfully posted the WVU game from last year — the final minutes — where Tino had plenty of time to move around and search for targets and still took those game killing sacks…nothing but dumb play, that’s it.

You keep saying Tino is way more polished/experienced than our other options, but then refer to his first year in 2010 when he won eight games as being more indicative of his talent than last year. Well, that was his first year, when he had virtually no experience…so how come that’s okay for him but not for Voytik or Anderson? You can’t work both sides of the argument. And holding a clipboard for two years doesn’t make for a better QB — if you believe that, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Comment by Matt N. 08.21.12 @ 9:12 pm

Some of these guys should run for office the way they can work both sides of an argument Matt N. lol

I’ve heard all this crap dozens of times, maybe hundreds of dozens of times. Which doesn’t make it any more palpable. (just like the crap you hear from pols)

I would have thought perhaps with the lack of experience at backup QB and not much competition for Sir Tino, that perhaps an SOS would go out to Pat Bostick to put the pads back on. Since this type of offense is perfectly suited for him and he’s such a fast learner of a new offense. He does have 1 year of eligibility left as far as I know. Unless there’s some rule that he had to use that 1 year of eligibility last year. If that’s the case, too bad, we could really use him this year. He really got the shaft at PITT, but hey at least he got a job (wink, wink) out of it. lol

Hail to Pitt !

Comment by Emel 08.21.12 @ 10:22 pm

Oh on the post, Sunseri held on to the ball and took the sacks for these two main reasons, imo:

1) Not a quick decision maker, even though in Graham’s offense the decisions were pre-made. lol

2) Sunseri knew the only way he’d be benched was by throwing picks. (as he was yanked in the Maine game after throwing 2 picks in one quarter)
So therefore he ate the ball, rather than attempting a pass that might be intercepted.

If nothing else the kid is smart or gets smart advice(go figure). Sacks can be blamed on others, interceptions can not !!

Veritas et Virtus !

Comment by Emel 08.21.12 @ 10:27 pm

Didn’t it hurt that the QB from Maine was so much better than Tino…I mean, Maine? God bless them, but seriously. Can you imagine if Marino’s Pitt had to struggle vs. them and we all wished we had Maine’s QB instead of Danny M.? Sheeeesh!

Comment by Matt N. 08.21.12 @ 10:44 pm

Matt – This is why I’m saying that if Voytik doesn’t redshirt then actually get him playing time out there. Use that burnt redshirt year to get him experience and to help the team if needed.

But I’ll disagree that a redshirt year doesn’t help FR QBs. I’m not sure where you get ‘holding a clipboard for two years’ from but a year in college getting acclimated to all the changes is almost always better for a young QB.

My thoughts are based on who is going to be the starting QB going into the season. Sunseri held onto that job and apparently there wasn’t much of a contest for the position.

That said, I’ve no problem at all if Voytik impresses the staff well enough to be considered a replacement starting QB should Sunseri crap the bed. Apparently Voytik’s play over the last two weeks has done that and good for him.

I would just prefer that Sunseri play well enough, and stay healthy enough, for us not to need to use either Voytik or Anderson.

Regarding Sunseri’s 2010 year… He was a 3rd year rsSO that season and had a ton of time in the program learning that offense and had played some in 2009. That is a different world then having three weeks of training camp and then asked to be the starter.

Comment by Reed 08.22.12 @ 8:39 am

As we all know, no substitute for live fire and some guys play like they practice and some guys don’t. Of course it would be great if Tino played strongly and we could help “acclimate” Voytik, but some kids are more ready to go then others and there is no one size fits all solution to this. We all are talking but the only thing that matters is what happens on the field…and in Chryst’s mind.

Comment by Matt N. 08.22.12 @ 10:33 pm

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