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July 14, 2012

What About Pitt-Penn State?

Filed under: Football,Non-con,Schedule — Chas @ 9:47 am

Pitt and Penn State are scheduled to play a home-and-home pair of football games in 2016 and 2017. A possible thaw in the long-standing stalemate in what was once a great annual rivalry game. Add in the fact that the Big 10-Pac-12 annual cross-over plan that was scheduled to begin in 2017 has now fallen through. Well, you could make a pretty good case that Pitt and Penn State might actually be able to resume the annual in-state rivalry game.

This home-and-home came about before the Penn State cover-up of the Sandusky molestations came to light. A cover-up to protect the image of the football program at Penn State. Now, Penn State is promising reforms. Changes, in no small part from the recommendations of the Freeh Report. But as Dan Wolken notes, how can there be real change when Penn State begins their new season in seven weeks?

That creates a question for Pitt and Pitt fans. Should we still want Pitt and Penn State to meet in football? Do we want to play a program where the leaders so willingly betrayed its self-righteous ideals to protect the image of itself. That it not only hid a pedophile right within in its midst, it gave license the beast to continue to use his relationship with Penn State football to bring in more boys to victimize.

 

I saw it posed in the comments. I’ve been in discussion thread with friends. I don’t have a good answer.

I grew up on the Pitt-Penn State game, as did many of you. It’s something we’ve long wanted back. But now? After this?

The game is still four years away. Maybe real changes are affected at Penn State. Maybe they confront the actual horrors and take ownership of their culpability and culture that created this and do something about it.

But what if they don’t? What if they compartmentalize it. Rationalize it as being others who did it. That it could happen anywhere, and that they are being unfairly maligned by haters.  Avoid the responsibility and the real changes. What then?

By playing  them are we just one more part of the culture that puts football ahead of all else.

Rather than just discuss in the comments here’s a blunt instrument to take the temperature.

Should Pitt play Penn State in Football in 2016-17?
  
pollcode.com free polls 




IT’s time to say FU PSU…Schedule WVU instead!

Comment by Marco 07.14.12 @ 10:15 am

PSU scandal aside, I’d rather play WVU. We have no recent history with PSU. The next time we play them will be the first time we have played them in 16 years…what rivalry?

Comment by HbgFrank 07.14.12 @ 10:36 am

A couple of thoughts on the issue:

1.) We need to wait and see how the playoff selection works out. IF strength of schedule ends up being important, Notre Dame and Penn State in the nonconference might be something Pitt wants. That is mostly wishful thinking that by 2016 Pitt might be in a position where they are in the NC discussion. But hey, we’re fans, we are allowed to think wishfully.

2.) More importantly though, I think is the issue of revenue. Pitt wants/needs 7 home games. I don’t think we will ever see three BCS non-con games, for those of you who want ND, Penn St, and WVU every year, although I agree that would be a bada$$ schedule. Even getting the two BCS caliber teams will be difficult to coordinate so that when Pitt has only 4 ACC home games, Pitt MUST have at least two non-con home games. Before we even get to the PSU creepiness, these are serious issues to consider.

3.) I can almost guarantee you Pitt WILL play PSU, because Pederson is too cheap to buy out of that game, period. We scheduled a freakin’ home and home with Akron, for crying out loud. I don’t see him buying out.

4.) If the game were next year, I would say cancel it. But there is no reason for Pitt to rush into judgement. Maybe all the PSU trustees resign, O’Brien runs a clean and transparent program, and in 2016 a still wobbly-from the death penalty program is easy pickings for Pitt. In some ways, that is ideal.

5.) Four years is still a long ways away. A couple of thoughts that could change everything: ACC and SEC each have 14 teams, and several of them already play each other in rivalry games. Why not an ACC-SEC football challenge? In four years, ND might be in the ACC, and Pitt might need another rival. In four years, the NCAA might allow another game to the season, to accomodate the scheduling needs of these giant conferences. Don’t think that can work? Ask Hawai’i.

If I was in charge, I would take the “wait and see” approach. There is so much upheaval in the college football landscape right now, it is wise not to add to it unnecessarily.

Comment by TartanPanther 07.14.12 @ 10:50 am

The next move is up to the NCAA. Let’s let the current scandal play out and all the emotion die down. Maybe this time next year, make a decision.

Comment by Dan 72 07.14.12 @ 10:56 am

I think almost all Pitt fans could site a “rumor” of where Pitt put football over _______.

There is the old story about when Pitt was in the Rose Bowl and the other team said to a Pitt player “I see why you get paid.” the Pitt player quipped back “i see why you don’t”

Comment by DCPinPGH 07.14.12 @ 11:04 am

I as much as anybody want to resume the Pitt – PSU rivalry. However, these recent events (and they are still developing); bring a whole new level of consideration.

I’m trying to think how I’d behave, if this happened here. I’d be embarrassed beyond belief! I’d first discontinue my financial contributions to the athletic department. Disavow anything Pitt Athletics. I wouldn’t donate to the institution until I saw ‘real’ change for the better. Prove to me that you have your priorities straight. I ask myself, are the Nitters really ashamed of the events or upset that might have less of a football team? Gee, they gave money in record amounts this past year (which I’m sure every civil attorney in Pennsylvania is aware of that right now.). How can that happen?

Additionally, anybody read R. Cooks’s recent column regarding the NCAA sanctions and Penn St.? Heck, his attitude is pay the fine and crank up the money maker again. What is wrong with people? I just lost all respect for this guy. I’m patiently waiting the NCAA on this issue. That will be telling.

The question that needs to be answered is ‘will PSU sports incur some sort of significant punitive damage, self – imposed or otherwise, and bring the university, athletics dept., and the student body to its senses?’ Personally, I have my doubts; I don’t see PSU doing anything too significant; token at best. Call me a jaded Pitt fan, but this is Penn St. we are talking about. I foresee the continual “smoke screen of propaganda, holier-than-thou lip service, and we’re above it all mentality” a la the Penn St. Way. Bottom line… spare me all your mea culpa crap Penn St., seeing true contrition is believing. Until then, Stevie Boy should hint to that effect if the series were to continue. Until PSU makes a liar out of me, then, I’m with you Marco, save the date and talk with the Hoopies.

Comment by IowaPanther 07.14.12 @ 11:10 am

I don’t think we should make a big public deal about PSU misgivings (they’ve done enough themselves) and that includes dropping their series. If we would do that the we may be looked on as acting ‘holier than thou’ … the same exact thing that we accused PSU and JoePa for the past few decades.

Comment by wbb 07.14.12 @ 11:21 am

Pitt could send a statement by cancelling the series until real reform is implemented. Hate to say it, but we need to take advantage of this crisis and kick em when they are down. All the cult cares about is football and their money making machine. IowaPanther is entirely correct. I couldn’t have said it better. And, Ron Cook is a DIK.

Comment by TX Panther 07.14.12 @ 11:29 am

No…………. when I saw the Big 10 / Pac12 agreement fell thru, I immediately thought the ACC should jump in and make an agreement with the Big 10. Then we could play Pedophile U, as well as Ohio Tattoo State and the rest

Comment by mtoolmn 07.14.12 @ 11:39 am

Here’s the thing. On the football side, other people did do these actions. It was NOT O’Brien (or whatever the hell his name is). It was Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky.

What Penn State needs right now..both on and off the field..is a helping hand in healing. We, the Pitt fans, players, alum, etc..we can help with that healing. We play the game, show our support for them and do everything we can to be the better person.

I know people will have their misgivings. I know people will say not to play the game, etc. But I personally think that playing this game is the best option for Pitt-PSU.

Comment by Lou Gagliardi 07.14.12 @ 11:48 am

The Pitt/Penn State rivalry needs to be restarted. By the time the games are played, this scandal will have been in the history book for four years. The rivalry is something that is part of the history of Pennsylvania football college history going back to the beginning of football at both Pitt and Penn State. The memory of it is fading from Pitt’s alumni as noted in the comments above. At one time there was not that much attention paid to the Backyard Brawl except by the West Virginia fans. The Penn State game was “The” game of the season.

Now is the time to lock it in on the schedule. The arrogant coach that stood in the way is no longer and his legacy is forever tainted.

Comment by John In South Carolina 07.14.12 @ 12:01 pm

IowaPanther–well put, I agree. What would Penn St. have to do to prove to you they are seriously changing their culture? Or to rephrase, if Pitt did this, what would Pitt have to do to convince you they genuinely learned their lesson? One simple idea is this: Never allow the head coach’s salary to exceed that of the president of the university. That does not punish any innocent people, and it will still harm the football program. Obviously there are some contract negotiations that would need to happen, Bill O’Brien would probably need to be bought out and a new coach hired, etc. But I think the surest way to make sure something like this never happens again is to not allow the coach to be the highest paid person at the university. Plus, all the insane nitters will still show up to the games, so PSU will save enough money to pay off the civil lawsuits!

Comment by TartanPanther 07.14.12 @ 12:04 pm

The real DIK is dead.

Comment by pittstadiumshuffle 07.14.12 @ 12:08 pm

JoePa is gone and tarnished and justice will be served…hopefully. My guess is most PSU fans wanted the rivalry alive all these years but just had to tow the company line because of old grumpy pants…who now is rightly grumpy pants the felon and shame of notso Happy Valley. If you had taken a poll of just the players and coaches over the past two decades, anonymously, I bet 90% would have wanted to play Pitt-Penn State every year.

Comment by Matt N. 07.14.12 @ 12:57 pm

I’d think the rivalry needs to be restarted.

But, I’d like to someone force psu’s hand to get help to all of the victims. Sandusky was probably doing his deeds well before anyone caught wind of it. Wouldn’t be surprised if he started in the 80′s. They need to get names/info out of him, then get help to these folks if they need it. If 10 victims testified, then there are probably three or fours times that number out there. But, psu is probably trying to limit the damage and expense. I guarantee you that 1998 was the last straw and not the first time that Paterno heard about Sandusky. So, I’d like to see psu focus on victims before i’m willing to play them.

Won’t happen this way of course…

Comment by Pitt in Oregon 07.14.12 @ 12:58 pm

Voted that it depends on the actions PSU/NCAA takes in the near future. If they get off, I say no way.

I do agree with others here that I’d rather play ND and WVU. Our recent history with them can’t be understated. Plus, we’re more likely to share a conference with them in the future before we join the Big Whatever.

Comment by Chuck Morris 07.14.12 @ 1:35 pm

2012 Dream Scenario: If we start of 3-0, we could be undefeated ranked #6 heading into South Bend Nov. 3 to play an unbeaten #5 Irish. Other undefeated matchups that day include include #1 Bama-#2 LSU and #3 USC-#4 Oregon. The entire college football world is watching these 3 games. Bama, USC, and Pitt come out on top and we vault to #3 in the country. On Championship weekend, Pitt takes care of Syracuse at the Carrier Dome to finish 12-0. Bama pounds Georgia in the SEC, but USC loses a heartbreaker in a rematch with Oregon. Pitt finishes #2 and heads to Miami to play the Sunseri Bowl against Saban. Dare to dream.

Comment by Tony C 07.14.12 @ 1:45 pm

USF at Raymond James not Syracuse at the Carrier Dome

Comment by Tony C 07.14.12 @ 1:49 pm

The scandal aside, I would like pitt’s non-conference schedule to include games against PSU, WVU & ND. Playing 1 or 2 of the 3 each year in addition to 1-2 home cupcake games.

Comment by pitt1972 07.14.12 @ 2:03 pm

I’ll take that dare.

Comment by TX Panther 07.14.12 @ 2:30 pm

I think that the Penn State football program deserves the NCAA death penalty. There was a complete lack of control of the football program by anyone except Joe Paterno, who did whatever he wanted to do. The PSU AD and administration should have made him retire years ago but Spanier and Curley let Paterno throw them out of his house.

Paterno knew what Sandusky did and what Paterno cared the most about was keeping his job as head coach. He treated the PSU men´s basketball program with disdain. He ran the place. Not Spanier or Curley or the Board of Trustees – it was Paterno.

For allowing that to happen, PSU deserves – but likely will not receive – the death penalty.

Ron Cook is a f@#$%¿g idiot. he has been so for decades.

Comment by Penguins Fan 07.14.12 @ 2:59 pm

I’m so unsure now of this game coming up. This rivalry, for me at least, was based on my complete hatred of the PSU cult and Joe Paterno…

I’m conflicted, mixed feelings…

Assuming that the cult may die some, it might not be the same for me anymore, it would be like playing the hoopies. Yeah, they’re a rival, but I respect them where I haven’t respected PSU since I was 6 years old and my kintergarden classmates would tell me about how Penn State was their dream, their life: in fact, it was.

Comment by Benzene 07.14.12 @ 3:13 pm

While I believe PSU needs to be punished, for the obvious reasons, death penalty, loss of scholarships, no bowl games etc., in the long run, they will recover and they should.

The PITT vs PSU rivalry needs to resume, it is best for both schools and especially Pitt. It is the state, the east and ACC VS Big Whatever. It is TRADITION. The same with WVU and ND. We need to play 2 of the 3 every year.

Comment by gc 07.14.12 @ 3:41 pm

I’m not defending PSU but I say play the games. It guarantees a sell out at Heinz and ironically I feel safer taking my kids to a game at State College than in Morgantown if we would replace them with WVU. 4 years from now we will be counting the days until the PSU game and not worrying about this scandal.

Comment by OrlandoAlum 07.14.12 @ 3:52 pm

Ever since PSU wanted 2 home to 1 away to play Pitt, I was against playing them ever again.
I still feel that way. They turned their back on us then and without the controversy would do it again.
I say F’em.
Long time season tix holder and donor.

Comment by frankarms 07.14.12 @ 4:41 pm

PSU years away. By then we know about everything. I would certainly would not like to walk by the Paterno statue to see Pitt – PSU.

Comment by Frank 07.14.12 @ 5:07 pm

Play the games, four years from now psu will still be haunted by this whereas Pitt will be in a new league with a program stronger than it is today. It will be the panthers time to control the focus of pa. Like curt schilling said when he came to the red sox about playing at Yankee stadium-nothing beats hearing a home crowd like that shut up.

Comment by John 07.14.12 @ 6:33 pm

Are OL will be good we have the RB if tino can hand off and throw short passes to the TE i could see us at 9 and 3 or 10 and 2 if the DL and LB dont have a lot of injuries it could happen.

Comment by FRANKCAN 07.14.12 @ 6:43 pm

I’ve been following Pitt for ten years and have never seen them play Penn State. The rivalry is dead. I really hope that Pitt signs a long-term home and home with West Virginia before that rivalry dies too.

Comment by Chris 07.14.12 @ 6:56 pm

When I initially learned that the Pitt vs Penn State game was being rescheduled, I was disappointed that it was four years away. Now I’m happy its four years away.

Comment by Dr. Tom 07.14.12 @ 7:01 pm

As much as I deplore Penn State, we should not stoop to their level. We need to keep in mind the greater good here and be the adults in the room. If Penn State gets wiped off the map, Pennsylvania and Pitt will get hit by some of the schrapnel. Remember what Dan Rooney did when Spygate happened? That’s right, nothing. He was as angry as anybody else, but he knew that exposing the Patriots would have hurt the entire NFL, including the Steelers. So he bit his tongue. We need to do the same here, as much as it disgusts us. Hold your nose with a clothespin and play the game.

Comment by wally 07.14.12 @ 7:13 pm

Like many on this site I have been digesting the Freeh report and the various commentaries on it, both the good and the bad (Jay Paterno). For me the main thing to see is the Nitters response after this all sinks in. If they truly examine the causes of the conspiracy (idol worship, placing an athletic team above the insitution, greed, etc) and then make the right decision (suspend football for a season) in order to show that their priorities are in order then I would agree with renewing the series and assisting in their healing process. Unfortunately I think the thought of losing $100 million + dollars for a year will keep them from doing this.
It will be interesting to see how the NCAA will approach this. In the NCAA’s letter to PSU it was alluded to that the NCAA would have to wait to see what PSU would do after the dust settles. I think the NCAA wants to see if PSU will fall on the sword themselves and if not perhaps the NCAA will then decrease scholarships, bowl ban etc. I doubt death penalty.

Comment by ohiopantherfan 07.14.12 @ 7:39 pm

Whew!

What a relief!!!

After little thought and consideration the Board of Trustees has decided to leave standing the Paterno statue. It would upset too many students and alumni to take it down. No word, however, on the fate of Peachy Paterno.

The only thing these self-serving arrogant fools will understand, at least from a football perspective, is the death penalty.

Comment by Gas 07.14.12 @ 8:13 pm

Gas , totally agree. Once again, victims be damned … but pity the poor students still worhsiping false idols

Comment by wbb 07.14.12 @ 8:19 pm

If we are serious about maintaining our integrity, then we keep the deal we have.

Then, we propose an equal series. If PSU gives anything but an unmitigated YES, we stand up shake hands and drop them in everything and never look back.

It is time for PITT to frame its own destiny.

Comment by SFPitt 07.14.12 @ 9:39 pm

The BOT leaves the statue because they don’t want to upset alumni and fans by tearing it down and don’t want to be pressured by the media. What about the other 99 percent of the nation that thinks the statue is vile? Don’t we have a say? The BOT says it represents all the good JoePa did. Winning games doesn’t count. The BOT’s decision just further cements my opinion which is now becoming fact that the Penn State community doesn’t get it and continues to place football first as evidenced by their actions. One BOT member even commented that over time people will forget about it so let’s not over react and tear the statue down. Pitt cannot associate with this school. Pitt needs to send a message to the nation that we get it and we are going to do something about it because the zombies haven’t learned and the cult still lives. Cancel the series Stevie…now.

Comment by TX Panther 07.14.12 @ 10:42 pm

Someone please ask Franco if he thinks OJ was guilty.

Comment by pittstadiumshuffle 07.14.12 @ 11:14 pm

I am completely stunned at a good portion of the PSU alumni including Franco and others who think their are”holes” in the Freeh report and “no way” JoePA did all that. This complete and utter hypnosis that PSU Football is “all powerful and perfect” is the reason the NCAA must give them the death penalty!

Today it comes out that they Board cut JoePa a special retirement deal so he would quit at the end of the season. Only 3 board members actually knew about it and the others were purposely left in the dark. So leave the statue up, put back the Halo over Joe;s head, keep the uni’s and colors the same and start up the football season…there’s really nothing to be upset about.

Kill em NCAA, kill em dead!

Comment by Dan 72 07.14.12 @ 11:20 pm

I want to see the Pitt v. PennState game right away! Imagine the heckling.

Comment by 241 Meyran 07.15.12 @ 12:51 am

Since the early 80′s We have always been the little step brother of the state. Whether it be ticket sales, alumni support, recruiting. PSU always overshadows. I always thought there would be an event in time when the power would shift. As unfortunate the Sandusky event was I thought this is the time. As this thing has played out I’m starting to see that PSU is to big to fail. The NCAA will do nothing. There is to much money tied up in the BIG 10 and the TV contract to have a disturbance. If anything They will have to sacrifice post season and a scholarship or two. Speaking of scholarships, PSU is pulling a top 20 recruiting class when they are faced with one of the biggest sports scandals of all time. In 7 weeks beaver stadium will still get 100,ooo fans. Paterno’s Statue will still stand. And there will be a half hearted moment of silence for the victoms in which the fans will be thinking about how sad it is what happened to joe pa and the program. They will play. The will win. People will forget.

Comment by Stashy 07.15.12 @ 1:35 am

I can’t believe that cancelling the series with Penn State is even a discussion. It will NEVER happen and never should should. It would be a irresponsible knee jerk reaction. Pitt is not the NCAA judge and jury.
Many of the comments on here are simply out of hatred for Penn State. A hatred that existed before this all went down. We should all hope that every university learns from this, makes changes to prevent it from happening again and we all move on.
They are not going to get the NCAA death penalty. Not even close.

Comment by notrocketscience 07.15.12 @ 6:34 am

If Pitt plays Pedo State, it will be guilty by association and tacit approval that football comes first and the victims be damned. Pitt can send a powerful statement. It is not about hatred. It is about putting children and priorities in life first. Until Penn State truly reforms itself and goes through a long detox program away from football, Pitt has no business playing them. Penn State needs to show by their actions that they have changed. I have seen little evidence thus far. They are hoping that as time passes people will forget. You never want to forget. That’s like revisionist history. In the end, those rapes never happened and JoePa is a saint.

Comment by TX Panther 07.15.12 @ 8:12 am

If there were any holes in the Freeh Report that sick bastard Sundusky would have already found and exploted them I’m sure.

Comment by Dr. Tom 07.15.12 @ 8:12 am

notrocketscience is right.

Also, I think maybe some folks should read the Freeh Report before pontificating what it does and doesn’t say.

Comment by Kyle 07.15.12 @ 8:17 am

First, the ncaa needs to hammer penn state. Espn did a poll and 70% of voters said to give psu the death penalty. The ncaa needs to do something big to maintain some respect. I havent heard a single reasonable excuse for why they shouldnt get the death penalty. This goes far beyond “lack of institutional control”, this was “active concealment” performed by the football coach and athletic director among others so dont tell me its not a football issue. Plus, psu will survive anything less than the death penalty. Ive never felt more confident that psu will get than after i heard the freeh report on the fan

Comment by Pk 07.15.12 @ 8:35 am

Freeh et al interviewed 400+ people. I guarantee you that many corroborated Paterno’s role in the cover-up.

If Freeh had any reason to doubt this he would’ve said so.

So, please, it is what it is… a damnation of the football program ruination of the lives of Sandusky’s victims.

Comment by steve1 07.15.12 @ 8:59 am

Might not be the right time / place. Or maybe this has already been asked / answered. But has anyone seen or heard of an autopsy having been done on Paterno when he died.

A conspiracy theorist would ask……… was he “assisted” along to death?? Either willingly or not !?!?

One sleazy page stated this………..

“What we seem to have here is a supernatural phenomena that is extremely rare and hasn’t been seen since the biblical days of Samson,” coroner Gary Cleveland stated, “Mr. Paterno’s life blood was football, literally. We found small traces of pigskin throughout his blood. When football was taken away from him, so was life.”

Comment by mtoolmn 07.15.12 @ 9:10 am

Agree that there are many comments here stemming first from a hatred of Penn State, and the atrocities committed there second. However, I don’t know on what basis one can say that they won’t receive some severe sanctions from the NCAA. There is plenty of evidence in that report that Penn State was operating outside the lines. Does it need to be a “death penalty”? That term implies permanence. Football at PSU doesn’t need to be permanently killed. But the punishment needs to be severe enough, like any punishment of anyone, that the lesson is properly learned.

Comment by JCE 07.15.12 @ 9:29 am

@JCE, to play the devils advocate…..

the monster is in jail, Paterno is dead, and Schwartz, Spanier and Curly are more than likely going to jail, and anyone else that would be found complicit in the cover up will also.

Comment by Dan 07.15.12 @ 9:42 am

True, Dan. But i am not sure I follow. You’re saying all the bad guys are already going to be punished? That may be the case. But there was a football first culture that was allowed to foster at the school that took a lot more than the efforts of just a few individuals. I already said that a “death penalty” was not necessary. But a sentence of “time already served” is too lenient and will not change anything. In my opinion.

Comment by JCE 07.15.12 @ 10:09 am

Pitt SHOULD be playing both PSU and WVU every year. We’ve already seen Paterno stoop to personal interest and politics with the game. Pitt should be the better school and make every effort to renew the rivalry. Paterno and his cult personality are gone – it’s time move on. An entire generation of families with both Pitt and PSU grads (like mine) have missed out on this game for too long. Having said that, WVU has stepped in as a nice rivalry over this dormant period and it’s a shame that this will end too. Play one on the road and one at home each year. It’ll make fans happy and boost strength of schedule. Not many schools have the potential for two heated rivalries – just get it done.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 07.15.12 @ 10:14 am

Looks like Pitt fans are evenly divided based on the survey results above from Chas. When you have the university president say that football will continue in importance and its not going away, that tells me the culture hasn’t changed. When you have the BOT afraid to do the right thing given what fans and alumni might do, when we are still means we are football, when you have the idiot Pittsburgh media defend Penn State, Dejan excluded, when the attitude is us and against the world, you still have a deep rooted disease that only a long time away from football will cure. Pitt should be part of the medicine and cut ties until the patient is healthy again.

Comment by TX Panther 07.15.12 @ 10:30 am

On penn state most of you posted they should get the death penalty and you are right but i dont think they will get any thing which is to bad.

Comment by FRANKCAN 07.15.12 @ 10:51 am

PSU situation is horrible, but 4 years from now it probably won’t be an issue. What exactly does canceling a game against them do? Nothing, except hurt Pitt by losing a top quality non conference opponent. Just the kind you need in the new non BCS world. PSU has done fine not playing Pitt. They wouldn’t blink an eye at the cancellation and would easily find a big time appointment. Guilt by association? Give it a break. It is the NCAAs job to dole out punishment. And if you want to be on such a moral high horse then you should be pushing Pitt to move to FCS status because big time football is a morally corrupt business. If Pitt stopped playing schools where football’s importance was too high, then Pitts schedule would be all FCS teams.

In regards to WVU, do you people actually go to away football games? I know that I do and that I try to go to as many as I can because they are almost always awesome.. I say almost because if you go to Morgantown you have to fear for your saftey. Play anyone but WVU.

Comment by Wardapalooza 07.15.12 @ 10:55 am

The punishment should be equal to the benefit enjoyed by PSU since 1998. The millions of revenue, linebacker u, saint joe, who never had to defend his actions, years of salary enjoyed by all involved, years of pension benefits undisturbed. Now we taxpayers again will pick up the tab, 8 mill for Freeh, payout and rightfully so to victims, increased budgets for lawyers and pr firms. Should the Paterno estate pay for some of this, what about Spanier et al, should they receive full pensions earned after the deception?

We are even paying for full time security for the statue. They still don’t get it.

And another thing, does anyone believe that a man becomes a pedophile when he is 54? Does anyone, other than the kool-aid drinkers think that no one knew or surmised that something was a miss.
Possible but unlikely. What was the Pandora’s box that they were afraid of?

The first one to turn states evidence gets the lightest sentence. How long will the code of Omerta stand?

Comment by gc 07.15.12 @ 10:59 am

Bob Costas on NBC Meet The Press

“if they are playing football (at PSU) in the fall then something is wrong”.

He has stated that he believes that “the NCAA will render the death penalty suspending football operations for a year. If this occurs then all player should be given the opportunity to transfer”

Comment by Pitt fan in Atlanta 07.15.12 @ 11:02 am

FWIW, in an article from an AP writer published in PG today, he suggests that instead of the death penalty, the NCAA puts a bowl ban on the program for 13 years …. the same amount of time that Sandusky has been protected.

Comment by wbb 07.15.12 @ 11:34 am

Show some University of Pittsburgh class and honor our contract. Play the games. Beyond that, let’s assess our priorities.

Hail To Pitt!

Comment by MariettaMike 07.15.12 @ 11:48 am

@JCE, I believe there is a football, basketball and sports in general first attitude, at a great big percentage of Div 1 universities.

I’m sorry, and as much as I hate Penn State, I don’t believe a family in the stands raped those little boys.

A sick pedophile did. Anyone involved in the cover up is complicit and should go to jail.

Quite frankly, I’m a little disappointed that Sandusky had about two days on the news when this happened, and two or three days when the trial was on. That’s about it.

Have you heard anything on Sandusky and pedophilia at all??

Where is Fox and CNN?? Why aren’t they doing 24/7 about the problem of a grown man being intrigued and craving little boys??? How about Penn State being made to pay millions to help find out what’s wrong with these freaks?? Cause some wires ain’t connected somewhere.

Politically incorrect?? Pedophiles have rights too??? I don’t know.

I just don’t follow what a “football culture” has to do with it.

That’s like we’re letting these guys off the hook isn’t it?? They had to cover it up, cause the program was so big??? Huh???

Pedohilia happens everywhere. Business, government, corporations, churches, high schools, middle schools, elementary schools, the local diner, the local neighbors house, everywhere.

Because the football program was so big, because they might get tarnished, they might loose their jobs?? That caused these men to make these catastrophic decisions??

Well, they made the wrong decision.

I’m sorry, that’s on Spanier, Schultz and Curly. To not be able to see, that this was not some selling shoes, or someone bought someone a pizza, or the coach kept the kids 10 minutes extra past the NCAA alloted practice time.

Children were being raped. This should have ended the night McQueary saw it happen. If you wanna give him a break because he was 23 or 24, ok, but when the AD, head coach, security guy and president found out, grown men with families, there should have been an immediate call to 911.

JCE, I sincerely respect your opinion, and others on here, and you and I agree about %90 of time.

I also don’t thing anyone elses opinions are wrong either. We all have them.

Comment by Dan 07.15.12 @ 2:30 pm

Looking back, how simple this could have been. Would have been on the sportscenter for a day, or two at most.

Headline: State College, Pa. Former asst. coach arrested after being seen in the shower with a little boy.

Wouldn’t have tarnished PSU at all, as a matter of fact, it would have added to their image,

Headline: Penn State helps arrest pedophile, hopes he rots in jail for the rest of his life.

I know, I know, some will say, well, you weren’t in their situation……….

I counter that, with many people, and I believe many on here, do know themselves well enough that they do know what they’d do.

Murder, rape, molestation, I mean these things aren’t some kid stealing a Hershey bar for God’s sake.

These things trump all others, don’t they??

Don’t get the he “was a friend” thing either.

I see my best friend or my brother in a shower molesting little boys, they’re going to jail my friend.

And I would expect the same from anyone else.

Someone might say “ya, but you know them”. I would reply “ya, I thought I did”.

One last thing, I am not holier than thou, I am no better than anyone else on the planet.

I just happen to believe a few things in life (murder, rape, child molestation) trump all other things, and your brain should have an immediate shut down, that this has to be stopped immediately.

Wow, I hope a lot of you believe you’d do the right thing in a situation like this. Wow, we’re in trouble if that’s not the case.

Comment by Dan 07.15.12 @ 2:44 pm

If a community, fans and a school define themselves through the football program and if that program is so economically important to certain individuals, the community and the school, coverups can and will continue to happen. It was easier to coverup at Penn State because one man ran not only the program but the entire university while the entire town and most of the fanbase worshipped that man and thought he could do no wrong. Going forward, it should be more difficult for the events to transpire again, but when a fanbase becomes obsessed with football and leaders only focus on the money maker, history will repeat itself. That’s what the cult doesn’t understand. They think they can just quickly move on and begin playing football again like nothing happened. JoePa just did what the cult would have done. The sickness runs deep and is pervasive. Those families in the stands did contribute to the environment that allowed rapes to be hidden to protect the brand, the money, and football on Saturday. They all helped enable a pedophile indirectly.

Ask a fan who rides a moral high horse like myself what I would do if this happened at Pitt. Well, I would be the first to call for an end to the program for a substantial period of time. And I wouldn’t blame anyone for not wanting to associate with me.

Replace Pedo State with the Hoopies and just make sure not to carry a knife to a gun fight when in Morganhole.

Comment by TX Panther 07.15.12 @ 2:57 pm

They had absolutely nothing to do with a sick pervert raping a little boy. Sorry.

I actually like your point Tx., because my above comments sounded like I was pontificating.

Now, I can sound like the bad guy.

If this happened at Pitt, I would want the pedophile executed, the people that covered it up to rot in jail for the rest of their lives…..

but, I wouldn’t want the football program shut down, nor would I think it should be.

If this happened at Childrens hospital, should we shut down the hospital??

Hey, we all have opinions, respect yours, and like JCE, TX, I believe you and I agree 95% of the time.

Hey, I hate Penn State, hate their arrogance, and no fans better ever tell me “shit on Pitt”, because I’ll have some salty comebacks waiting for them.

However, I believe this falls on the individuals who committed the crimes.

Good day to you, you can have the last word, heading down to Germantown Md to talk to some clients tmrw.

Good day all, middle of July, the pigskin will be flying soon!!!

Hail to Pitt!!!

Comment by Dan 07.15.12 @ 3:19 pm

Nice to hear from you Dan. I respect your opinions as well. Hail to Pitt. Thank goodness we aren’t Penn State. But, let’s all remember that there is more to life than football. But, I do love these football blogs. Gives me something to do before the Rangers play on TV anyway. Thank you Chas and Reed. I am addicted to this blog and have developed a passion for Pitt as a result of connecting with fellow fans. I will make sure to never become a zombie or allow a cult like obsession to possess me. If anyone does think I’m chewing on some football brain, please shoot me.

Comment by TX Panther 07.15.12 @ 3:42 pm

I firmly believe that they should get the death penalty…. And if they do and they make the systemic changes necessary to clean up their program then Pitt should honor the contract and be part of the process of helping PSU move forward into a new era.

Comment by CJK 07.15.12 @ 3:49 pm

“If this happened at Childrens hospital, should we shut down the hospital??”

Yes, Dan, for at least a year. “This” was allowed to continue for 10+ years.

Comment by steve1 07.15.12 @ 3:59 pm

Think of the great t-shirts & signs we could take to the game!! Oh what a blast!
slogans like”Sticking w/ sheep would have been cheaper”
fantastic!

Comment by Punxy Panther 07.15.12 @ 5:29 pm

For years I resented that Joe Paterno ended the over a century old series. Now after all the years that passed and the recent developments, I couldn’t care less if we ever play them again. In years passed I loved the series. I have a problem with the self-rightous comment that I remember Joe PA making about “not leaving college football to the Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers of the world.”

Comment by Justinian 07.15.12 @ 5:32 pm

I would have no problem with Ped St gettng the death penalty, in fact I’m for it. But if their playing football in 2016, then I say play them. On a related note, someone from the Pitt Administration should reach out and offer assistance with the Clery Act – and get a little PR out of it. Tell them this is the Pitt way – following the rules.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 07.15.12 @ 6:48 pm

I was with some serious PSU alumni today and they refuse to believe the facts. I am afraid that represents the feeling of the institution as well. Suck it up, take your lumps and maybe this mess will die down.
My initial feeling was no serious penalties should go against the program, but I think unless something radical is done, the attitude of nothing really wrong was allowed no changes of merit will be accomplished and the we are attitude will continue. It should be we were.

Comment by Jimbo 07.15.12 @ 7:23 pm

My post from last month, noted below, remains approptiate. I still say if Penn State is playing football when the game comes up, we should play it. Much water will have gone under that ol bridge by then and Pitt should do what is best for Pitt.

“If they (well, not if) covered up criminal behavior, what else do you suppose they may have covered up over the years? All the NCAA has to do is peel a few layers away from the onion and there will more than enough institutional control evidence to put them away for our lifetime. The only question is do they have the guts to do it.

Comment by wally 06.20.12 @ 9:40 pm “

Comment by wally 07.15.12 @ 7:27 pm

It pisses me off that when you look at a lot of peoples view of Pennsylvania its like we all get lumped together. I was out west this week and somebody asked where I was from and when I said PA, it was like “oh yeah, where they rape little boys” FU State Penn

Comment by Kenny Powers 07.15.12 @ 7:33 pm

put a stripe on their unis that will show them

Comment by paul shannon 07.15.12 @ 8:07 pm

I my limited knowledge of the law, it certainly appears that senior administrators at Penn State worked to conceal criminal acts against children. it would have been different if Spanier, Curley, Schultz, et al were aware of illegal acts that did not occur on the Penn State campus or were completely unrelated to Penn State, but they covered for Sandusky, and so did Paterno – all for the sake of their football program.

Look at what happened to the accounting firm that audited the books at Enron – Arthur Andersen. Arthur Andersen was a prestigious accounting firm with a long history. AA’s failure to report on the illegal acts of Enron destroyed Arthur Andersen and today, there is an oligarchy of four large public accounting firms. Innocent people lost their jobs and careers at AA, but AA’s demise had to happen.

Curley and Schultz are on trial for criminal perjury. Sandusky will die in prison. Death provided Joe Paterno with an escape from earthly justice.

The civil lawsuits will be another matter. I look for there to be sufficient lawsuits to cripple Penn State. Jeffrey Anderson is a lawyer who went fishing for accusers to sue the Catholic church and Anderson has made millions. Anderson probably has more dollar signs in his eyes over the Sandusky convictions.

Governor Corbett and the Pennsylvania Assembly should pass a law placing all state-funded universities under all applicable sunshine laws and all universities should be subject to state audits – both financial and operational. What’s more, they should suspend the PSU football program themselves for a year or two – if the NCAA will not. Given that the NCAA likely does not have the stomach to do what it must, and the Pennsylvania government can’t even change the laws to allow one to buy a six pack of beer at a grocery store (with a few exceptions) I don’t look for much to change – with the exceptions of the civil lawsuits.

I have had to work for Nitter alumni and I want nothing to do with that crowd.

I, for one, am very happy that Pitt is not in the Big 10 conference with Penn State and I do not care if Pitt ever plays Penn State again – and I am one who was despondent when Paterno broke it off.

Comment by Penguins Fan 07.15.12 @ 8:14 pm

Hey fellas, in Maryland having a toddy.

All good posts. I don’t think I have much more to say on it.

Only to my hockey buddy Steve1. My point about the hospital. Example. Horrible example, but, I have to do it. Say a doctor is involved in pedophilia at the hospital. Top heart surgeon or cancer surgeon. A nurse sees it, reports it to the administrator, the head of the doctors group and the head of hospital security.

They decide what’s best, with the world reputation of the hospital, the standing it has in the u.s. and the doctors reputation for being one of the best surgeons in the world. They decide to keep quiet.

They get found out. The doctor rapist, and the nurse, head of hospital and head of hospital security. So you shut the whole hospital down?? Or even the specialty surgery department, for what 5 or 6 people did??

Hey, I’m all for everyone and anyone that is found out to have known, go to jail.

Anyhow, enough for me on that. Just my opinion. Nothing I can do about it, and actually, other than bs’ing to you guys, doesn’t effect me much if they get the death penalty. If they get it, they get it. I won’t be upset though if the NCAA doesn’t do much either. Always seemed like a criminal matter to me.

Best to all.

Comment by Dan 07.15.12 @ 8:58 pm

one more.

@punxy panther. Oh ya, totally agree with you there. If we do play, I would think the nitters fans would be smart enough to not start anything with Pitt fans.

Start with that “shit on Pitt” stuff, it could get really nasty in the parking lots and stadiums.

Like I said, not sure of death penalty, but, I’m satisfied that we have the upper hand against PSU for at least the next 50 years or so!!!

LOL

Comment by Dan 07.15.12 @ 9:01 pm

Danno, bad example indeed.

When did 5 or 6 get found out? 1 month? 2 months? 10 F’N YEARS?

If the latter, shut ‘em down and shut ‘em down NOW! AND, BY THE WAY, YOU SAID IT’S A CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL!

Sorry, Dan, you’ve hit a nerve. I’m privy to docs who’ve done horrible things to save their asses.

Let’s go, Rangers

Comment by steve1 07.15.12 @ 9:37 pm

I’ll take shit on Pitt over ped state any day of the week.

You guys want to hear my freakin’ day. My in-laws live just outside state college. We went down to the arts fest today and as we get half way thru my wife sees a little lemonade stand…my wife has soft spot in her heart for these things. She gives my two little boys some money to get a cookie and a drink from the young girls running the stand.. As we walk away I notice a guy sitting in the shade under a tree in the backyard of the house where we bought the lemonade…it was mf’ing Jay Paterno. Then it hits me that my two little boys just gave cash to the Paterno’s. I’ve never been so distraught over $4 in my entire life.

My boys and I were at least wearing Pitt gear – a must anytime we go into town. After getting that off my chest I have to mention my two favorite ped state stories to make me feel better…

1. My oldest’s first intro to Paterno was a stuffed doll my sister had at her place…upon seeing it he screamed in utter fear at the hideous figure.

2. A couple of years later his grandfather and uncle wanted a pic on top of the nittney lion. Upon seeing the lion my son declared that it wasn’t a lion and that it was a Panther. He then declared that he would sit on the Panther.

I was hoping that would make me feel better…but it didn’t.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 07.15.12 @ 9:50 pm

Are you sure it was lemonade??

Comment by TX Panther 07.15.12 @ 10:43 pm

Dan…..the football culture is what allowed the criminal elements to fester and grow. The football program had taken on such importance that it had to be protected at all costs. Penn State fandom is what created that culture. Not JoePa or any of the others. They only recognized it, reveled in it and exploited it. Without the football culture a child predator is likely stopped 14 years ago. You are not wrong that this culture exists on other college campuses as well. However this is the only one that led to the situation at hand. The culture must be changed. The fandom have to feel the consequences for that to happen.

Comment by JCE 07.15.12 @ 11:09 pm

$4 for lemonade and cookies…a buck per? I guess they’re gouging ’cause the Paterno fortune is in jeopardy.

Comment by steve1 07.16.12 @ 6:38 am

If the culture allowed this level of cover-up, doesn’t it follow that other cover-ups to protect the “program” would be common place. There are plenty of known examples. The NCAA should be conducting a far more comprehensive evaluation.

The wagons are being circled as we speak. Ron Cook still doesn’t get it.

Comment by gc 07.16.12 @ 6:52 am

@ punkypanther how about this slogan for a T shirt? On the front, Sandusky University Alumni, on the back,
Matriculated as a tight end but graduated as a wide receiver.

Comment by Dr. Tom 07.16.12 @ 7:32 am

NCAA vs. Ped State…………….$$$$$$ decides the punishment.

As much as I hope I am wrong I suspect that the final outcome will be far removed from the “death penalty”.

Three Years of Punishment:
Loss of 10 scholies first year followed by loss of 5 scholies per year in second and third years.

No bowls for 2 years

No TV for l year.

End result, the WE ARE PENN STATE cry will continue to echo from Perv Valley and nothing….
NOTHING will change!!

Comment by isnore 07.16.12 @ 7:34 am

The fans dirdn’t create the culture, the university did. If you’re going to blame the fans, blame society for being so sports crazed. Here’s the thing, then it’s a worldwide problem…soccer has the most crazed fans out of any sport.

This was one sick individual being protected by selfish administrators, who put their own interest above the well being of children. I believe the NCAA should get involved but only to set a precedent for future corruption. The culture at PSU will change now that all the parties involved have been removed from power. It has to, not only because of the NCAA involvement but because of flags raised at the federal level now. There are bigger concerns now than the football program for the first time in about 60 years.

What has to change now is the culture at other schools where football has become bigger than the education provided…. I’m looking directly at the SEC and the rest of the Big Tenwelve.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 07.16.12 @ 7:55 am


The fans created the culture. The fans ARE the culture. The University just propogated it.

Comment by JCE 07.16.12 @ 8:38 am

Dr.Tom – Thank you for your much needed humor. Especially your comment about the new meaning of “Penn State Sucks”!

I am simply stunned by the continued arrogance and pooh-poohing of the scandle by PSU Alums.
Without the death penalty, it will go back to business as usual at Ped State.

Comment by Dan 72 07.16.12 @ 8:48 am

That’s not a psu fan problem, that’s a general sports fan issue. It’s the reason why steelers fans look the other way at big ben, golf fans look the other way for tiger woods, ravens fans still root root for ray lewis, raiders fans still cheer their teams on and so on and so on. There’s a reason “insert team name” nation has become a common term for a team’s fans. I do beliefs a precedent has to be set but this was an institutional problem not a fan base problem. Implying that fans drive this just comes across as jealousy to me. Psu’s fan base is bigger and thus more influential than Pitt’s but to say they contributed to this scandal is naive. The collective fan base would have taken action had they known about this in 98′ or 2001. In fact, had psu gone public then none of this would have ever happened.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 07.16.12 @ 9:33 am

Thabeets — Sure, you can extrapolate it to all sports fans. But are you trying to tell me that without the fervent, near blind devotion to the the school and football team that the PSU fans have this cover-up would still have happened?? No way. Without these fans, JoePa and those administrators do not have the incentive, and certainly in JoePa’s case, the POWER to enact this cover-up. The exact opposite of what you say is true. It is naive to think that the football fanbase DID NOT contribute to the existence of the scandal. That is not to say that the fanbase would not have been outraged to find out about Sandusky. The fact that they had a role in enabling him was unwitting. But it was real nonetheless. It is an institutional problem AND a fanbase problem.

Comment by JCE 07.16.12 @ 9:57 am

The Paterno Family has now hired their own experts to investigate as best as they can, the findings in the Freeh Report. The Penn State Public Relations Firms are playing the media and the public, like charlie daniels played a fiddle.

If anyone believes that all of the responses are not well planned, they are mistaken or else have never been in a Board Room. There is zero email traffic on this issue between the BOT and the PR firms unless it goes through their defense counsel in order to protect privilege.

All communication is facilitated through land lines, not cell phones. The entire premise of the Freeh Report is flawed as the scope was too narrow and it was another effort to protect the football brand. All this other hoopla by the Paterno’s is being done to throw the attention away from the program and the university. Despicable!

Comment by dhuffdaddy 07.16.12 @ 10:13 am

JCE, None of this would have happened if the school would have avoided any conflict of interest by including Paterno in the discussion. That is where the breakdown occurred. A fervent fan base was not involved in the least bit. The university may have been concerned with the fall out of the revelations but that was a PR decision that many schools could have faced. They made the wrong moral and legal decision only after consulting with the person who would be most adversely affected…Paterno. The university gave Paterno his power and the fans may have contributed to his legend but that’s what happens when you make someone the face of a program for 50 years. The NCAA should make PSU an example but I don’t see how any blame can be put on the shoulders of alumni and the fans.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 07.16.12 @ 10:41 am

1.) Pedophiles happen everywhere, how to stop them, wish we knew.

2.) After finding out about pedohile, a phone call to 911 would have ended it.

In summation, a pedophile, and 4 men without character.

Comment by Dan 07.16.12 @ 10:56 am

JoePa had the power because he created a multimillion dollar business. This business could only be created because college football is a popular national sport. So all fans are to blame if you are going to blame PSU fans. PSU allowed JoePa to misused this power, which is why they should be punished. But you aren’t going to lessen the power of college football coaches any time soon. Just look at the new college football that will bring millions to schools. This is just going to add to the power of coaches. If you are really worried about the moral corruptness of college football then you should want vast changes and perhaps even want it banned.

Here is a good debate on if college football should even exist: link to npr.org

Comment by Wardapalooza 07.16.12 @ 11:01 am

Exactly Dan. It’s easy to point fingers but this really is the result of inaction by men who should have known better.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 07.16.12 @ 11:02 am

Exacty Tossing. People seem to be giving these guys a break, “there was so much pressure on them they had to cover it up”.

B.S.!!! These were children being raped, not someone jaywalking.

Comment by Dan 07.16.12 @ 11:11 am

You can’t make this a black and white, cut and dry situation where one thing or group is responsible over all others! It’s the administrators. It’s the fans. It’s the university. It’s ALL of that!! So all parties should carry some of the punishment!! Including the fanbase. Of which football related sanctions would be a part. This did not happen in a vacuum or some isolated microcosm.

And Dan, I certainly hope you are not insinuating that I am one of the people giving the administrators a break. If so, you haven’t been reading my posts closely.

I’ve said about all I can say about this.

Comment by JCE 07.16.12 @ 11:35 am

@JCE, absolutely not, nor anyone else on here. You’ve been very clear, as everyone else.

My comment was general to the news media and callers on radio shows.

I think this has been a very good dialogue on the situation up there.

I really hate cliches’, but, in this case, I think many of us have reached the point of

“we agree to disagree”.

Time for some football!!

Comment by Dan 07.16.12 @ 11:49 am

By playing them are we just one more part of the culture that puts football ahead of all else.

Paterno dead, Sandusky in prison for the rest of his life. The three high profile enablers on their way to prison, retirement, or out of the country. After PSU comes off the death penalty and comes to PITT on bended knee begging, you say maybe and on one condition; the name of the former head coach who enabled these felonies against children, these crimes against humanity for an era, comes off any stadium the men representing the University of Pittsburgh sets foot in. And melt the goddamn statue while you’re at it. Then we’ll think about it. I hope like hell the Big Ten throws them out of the conference.

Comment by Chicago P 07.16.12 @ 1:45 pm

The cult is upset because a little child molestation is getting in the way of football season. Many fans who pack that stadium each Saturday think that way. And yes all fans are to blame by some degree, but the Nitter is an entirely different sub species. I would think Pitt fans would withhold donations and stop showing up at games if this sort of thing happened at Pitt. The first thing on my mind would not be how is our recruiting holding up or can’t wait for football season. I think Pitt fans would be demanding a voluntary hiatus from football. I have heard nothing but crickets from the cult. I agree with JCE. The cult gave JoePa the power. He and others abused that power in the worst way. Now the cult is trying their best to move on quickly because it’s still all about football.

Comment by TX Panther 07.16.12 @ 2:00 pm

PSU administrators covered up the pedo for football, therefore football should be punished. Why would the president of a university heed the wishes of the head football coach in a criminal case, unless that head football coach had too much power at that university! As to the original question of this blog, I guess I want to wait and see what happens in the future before I cancel already scheduled games.

Comment by Caw Miller 07.16.12 @ 2:06 pm

I want nothing to do with that school, nothing. It’s embarassing enough they are located in Pennsylvania.

Comment by Get the Glory 07.16.12 @ 4:03 pm

need to have a contest on which t-shirt slogan becomes “the game” shirt like out at ND
that would be way cool! & donate All proceeds to a victim fund.

Comment by Punxy Panther 07.17.12 @ 2:59 am

[...] yes. Joe Starkey noticed the poll I ran just after the Freeh Report and  a week before the Paterno statue was removed. Just part of his [...]


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