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June 28, 2012

Once More Into the MAC

Filed under: Football,Recruiting — Chas @ 11:13 pm

I know. I know. Chryst develops players. Don’t get hung up on stars and who has offered. Look at the size. Right now it is just kind of funny at this point.

In addition to Tra’Von Chapman, Pitt added another verbal from Ohio. Carson Baker, an offensive tackle, who had offers from Toledo (man, the Rockets must be just about sick of this), Ohio and Buffalo opted for Pitt.

Measurables. Baker is 6-5 and anywhere from 270-315 pounds. No, really.

Rivals.com, 247 and ESPN.com all have Baker as un-starred, and un-evaluated. Scout.com actually gives him 2-stars. Of course Scout.com also lists Baker’s weight at 270 while the other 3 sites put him at 300-315.

Well, at least his high school coach is fond of him.

“He’s the best lineman I’ve ever coached,” said Fairborn coach Roy Thobe, who has been a high school coach in Ohio for 25 years. “And I’ve sent players to the Big Ten and Mid-American Conference.”

Um, I don’t suppose you could name some that you sent to the Big 10? I mean I found one DT who is at Indiana, but, um, yeah, Indiana football.

Looking like Chryst is determined to show he can really coach ’em up at certain spots.





One should be far less concerned over stars with O-linemen than other positions because it is truly, IMO, the hardest position to predict future performance from HS performance. Very very different than with skill position guys.

Comment by pitt1972 06.29.12 @ 12:10 am

Let me paraphrase basketball recruiting lingo: You can’t coach a kid to be 6’5 300 lbs.

Comment by Chuck Morris 06.29.12 @ 12:30 am

Chryst is an offensive line guy and I would trust his opinion over anyone who makes up the stars.

Comment by Brian 06.29.12 @ 1:36 am

Let me paraphrase reality: When the only thing you can think of good for a 2 star player is to say he’s heavy, well then you are screwed my friend.

I didn’t like Graham and I do like Chryst but let’s be honest- if Graham or Wannstedt were recruiting like this people would be going apeshit.

Comment by Mike 06.29.12 @ 2:09 am

Last year the MAC had 13 O-Lineman in the NFL… just one short of the Big East.

Based on what the high school coach has to say, I’m going to think this kid has a chance to be a pretty good player.

Comment by PittofDreams 06.29.12 @ 7:15 am

Probably the least productive, informative and insightful post on the Blather.

Written in wRONg Cook style. Maybe Wisconsin was filled with 3,4,5,6 star O lineman and I just missed it. Perhaps lineman aren’t rated as high because their films don’t make sportscenter.

I am considering retiring after this one because the way it is written, one can conclude that a 17 year old is a finished product, can’t improve or never misjudged by people who really never have to teach (aka “coach”).

Speaking only for myself obviously, welcome to Pitt young man. Use the echoed misgivings of those around you to motivate yourself. At Pitt, we teach. Sometimes, the teaching is embodied in lessons of what not to do.

This article would be one such example.

Comment by SFPitt 06.29.12 @ 7:17 am

Anybody know the average star ranking of Wisconsin O-linemen over the last 4-5 years? Just wonderin’

Comment by Atlanta Panther 06.29.12 @ 7:18 am

if nothing else, we’re kicking Toledo’s butt

Comment by wbb 06.29.12 @ 7:46 am

This coaching staff believes they can coach up the OL to play at a high level. Let’s hope they are correct. We’ll actually find out this year with the guys we already have because they were certainly ranked higher than what we’re recruiting at this time.

Comment by Pittastic 06.29.12 @ 7:54 am

All those on the ledge “READY SET JUMP”!!!

These are kids who just finished their Jr year. There will be a number of kids that may not have played much as underclassmen but will be good enough to get a D1 scholarship. Think about the OL we lost to Nebraska there were lots of posts on a an number of blogs criticizing that we offered him as he didn’t have any other big time schools after him.

Comment by giveitarest 06.29.12 @ 8:15 am

Anyone have an idea how the O-Linemen that Chryst has signed compare to the guys Wanny signed — as far as size goes? These just seem like REALLY big guys. Obviously Chryst likes them that way. As someone said, you can’t teach that size — just like you can’t teach a DB or WR speed and leaping ability. If the kid has the tools you can mold the talent….

Comment by JCE 06.29.12 @ 8:27 am

@ Mike, send me your address so that I can shoot you out a Rx for some Prozac. Me thinks you could benefit from an attitude adjustment. I understand your points on recruiting but just feel that it has a half empty slant to it.

Comment by Dr. Tom 06.29.12 @ 8:32 am

Being completely realistic here, Pitt is competing with MAC schools for players because thats the level our football program has performed at for the past decade. Yes, we’ve had a few moments here and there but when you get right down to it we haven’t been that good and we play in the weakest bcs conference in football. So like it or not thats what you end up with when you don’t take care of business on the field.

Having said that, I really don’t give a hair off Dave Wannstedt’s mustache about recruiting rankings and stars. Just find a way to win! I dont think Boise State gets a top ten recruiting class year in and year out yet they compete with the biggest and best every year…It can be done.

Comment by Coach Ditka 06.29.12 @ 9:02 am

Right on Coach Ditka. Boise State, Utah, TCU (until recently) never had really highly rated classes, and they win. Every. Single. Year.

Comment by Atlanta Panther 06.29.12 @ 9:08 am

For those asking about Wiscy’s OL commits over the last 4-5 years I did a quick little search on it on both Scout and Rivals and this is what I found. Note that I looked at the time frame of 2008-2012. Not surprisingly, most of the kids were set on a frame of 6-5 or better and averaged 2.86 and 2.89 stars on Scout and Rivals respectively. I thought that was definitely worth noting given the production, especially in the run game, that Wisconsin has seen on the field in recent years. The biggest difference is coaching. Wiscy has gotten avg OL and coached them to be good or great…Pitt has gotten avg OL and let them be avg OL

Comment by BCPITT 06.29.12 @ 9:14 am

Another quick note on the recruiting situation….In the same time frame that I analyzed the OL recruits, I took a quick look at the overall ranking of each class.

2008-2012 Pitt Average #32 class high of 17(2010) low of 47 (2011)

2008-2012 Wiscy Average #42 class high of 26(2008) low of 63(2012)

Comment by BCPITT 06.29.12 @ 9:23 am

Watch what Chryst and Huber do with the OL this year…

Comment by markp 06.29.12 @ 9:26 am

Baker is the type of kid that a good college OL coach can make into real players at this level. It was just reported that while he attended the PITT camp our S&C coach had to show him the correct way to lift weights.

Imagine that, a 6’5″ 315 lb OL who was never shown how to correctly lift weights throughout HS. Think that may make a difference with him in one more season of HS ball and two years of a college S&C program? This kid will be a monster by then.

So, our staff watched this kid in camp, saw his films and then felt comfortable enough to offer. That is just fine with me.

Comment by Reed 06.29.12 @ 9:26 am

I imagine that if he didn’t know how to correctly lift weights it is a real wonder he doesn’t have back problems.

Comment by Chas 06.29.12 @ 9:32 am

Thanks for the infor BCPITT. Proves what I’ve been saying that class rankings don’t mean much when you can’t coach kids up to or beyond their potential…and thats a huge reason why the stache is no longer at Pitt. I’m actually surprised that we are getting some of the recruits we’ve landed considering all thats happened over the last two years.

Comment by Coach Ditka 06.29.12 @ 9:45 am

Show support for the kids. Talk good things about them. Some coaches look at character as well.

Frank MD

Comment by Frank 06.29.12 @ 10:30 am

FWIW–One of the newspaper articles on Baker indicated that he was “athletic” but needed work.

To me that means he is a big kid who has the necessary athleticism but needs to have his technique developed since he probably got by in high school simply by just being bigger than anyone else.

So, if all this is true–

1) He has the needed frame (height + weight)
2) He has room to get stronger since his weight room technique isn’t good
3) He has the athleticism needed
4) He has room to improve his technique

All this tells me that this is a kid who, if he has the right attitude and work ethic, has the potential to become a truly outstanding OL by the time he is a RS soph or junior.

That’s not a bad basis for the staff offering him irrespective of stars.

Comment by pitt1972 06.29.12 @ 11:11 am

Reed makes a great point for both football and basketball unless the kid is an Adams or Marino.

High school coaching in most programs in both sports do not focus on fundamentals or team play they focus on winning.

Comment by drw 06.29.12 @ 11:21 am

The kid’s probably 16 at most 17 years old. I don’t know about you guys, but I remember growing and putting on quite a bit of muscle mass from 16-20 yrs. Stop worrying, Pitt isn’t exactly a OL’s dream school. Coach em up, hit the primanti’s and the weight room- everything will be fine. Chryst is recruiting non-wuss’s, he knows what it takes to be successful. Honestly- have any of us seen recruiting properly handled at pitt?

Comment by ClarkLotTgate 06.29.12 @ 11:44 am

Chas. You must be having a “SLOW DAY”. These recruiting blogs are non-sensical. As I recall, the Panthers in recent years have LOST to: Toledo. Bowling Green and Ohio. A gridder is a gridder no matter how many stars he has garned in high schoo. May I suggest, we leave the recruiting to our new staff and do our carping after the final game. Respectfully, Rev. George in Columbus

Comment by Rev. George Mehaffey 06.29.12 @ 11:51 am

I like the way this thread is going. Right on fellas. I’ll take a few more two and three stars in the mold Pitt1972 described above. All. Day. Long.

Comment by Atlanta Panther 06.29.12 @ 11:57 am

Who cas on stars especially o linemen. Too many of you put too much stock in ratings. I trust our new staff knows what they are doing. Often at camps, coaching staffs get close looks at players and figure out who has potential and who fits their system and needs. The fact that anyone cares about Internet ratings who don’t get close looks at these juniors is comical. Chill out and relax. We have a good number of recruits that the staff likes and we can start getting pickier as the commits increase. Good luck to this big young man as he gets to work with some excellent OL coaches!

Comment by Dish 06.29.12 @ 12:44 pm

Lets be realistic, at this point, considering Pitt’s current roster, we just need BODIES who have played on the offensive line to start with. It is an extreme position of need. I’m just happy that the kid has OL under his position listing.

Comment by Dr. Tom 06.29.12 @ 1:28 pm

Great to see many indications of realism here as opposed to the hysteria the other day when Johnson committed to PSU. Pitchforks out for Chryst before he coaches a single game.

Pitt football is still in a very tenuous state following the debacle of the last few years, and really considering the mediocrity of the last few decades.

Yes, I know we won a national championship close to 40 years ago. Yes, I know Darelle Revis and Larry Fitzgerald went there. Yes I know we’re all proud of our alma mater, justifiably so. Who says all that is supposed to matter to any given kid, or that Chryst could sell them on it even if he were a supercharged, relentless recruiting maniac?

The fact is, TODAY, the best coaches are NOT lining up to coach at Pitt; the best prospects are NOT automatically lining up to play there. No matter where they’re from.

Why should they? The arguments that opposing coaches can make against Pitt are compelling, although many people don’t want to listen:

Pitt has just experienced absolutely unprecedented, almost unbelievable coaching instability. They will be leaving their conference maybe next year, maybe the year after – no one knows for sure. They’re fourth, maybe fifth in sports interest in their OWN TOWN (a problem they share with many other urban schools, of course).

Take off the blinders. We’re damn lucky to have Paul Chryst here. He deserves significant leeway before we crucify him. (tired, obvious joke intended)

Comment by BATR 06.29.12 @ 3:15 pm

Good post BATR.

I like many here, attended PITT during the latest “Glory Years” 1974-1984. We had a great 10 year run there. Before that we had the one great no bowl team in 1963 I believe and the two Sugar Bowl teams of the 1950’s. And then you have to go way back to the 1930’s, and Pitt’s Dream Backfield when PITT was the dominant team in the East as well as one of them in the Nation as well. And of course we had the legendary Pop Warner coach at PITT even before that and made PITT a dominant team.

So for tradition, and that is what college football is all about, we have a ton of it. More than 90% of Universities out there. What we haven’t had since the 1980’s is stability. As we’ve had 8 head coaches since 1990. (I think I got em all) You can not build a consistent winning program with 8 head coaches in 22 years.

Peterson was the AD for the majority of these 22 years. He should be out looking for a job as I type this. This is the same person who destabilized one of the more dominant football programs in college football since 1970. That being Nebraska. Why does Smiley still have a job at PITT ? Thank God the last football hire was taken OUT of his hands.

Comment by Emel 06.29.12 @ 3:47 pm

How the Mac must hate PITT way to go coach chryst

Comment by FRANKCAN 06.29.12 @ 3:48 pm

Dear SFPitt,

We have received your critique and thank you for submitting it. It is always a pleasure when commenters take PITT football seriously enough to take the time and effort to write a sentence or two in response to one of our articles.

However, there is one small point to clarify… Chas wrote this piece, not yours truly. Had I written it there would have been a lot more tongue-in-cheek- humor in it and maybe a wife beating Head Coach reference or two.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter and your suggestions will be placed under advisement.

Sincerely,

Reed

P/S: How do you feel about Tino Sunseri as the starter? We haven’t discussed that issue in such a long time.

Comment by Reed 06.29.12 @ 4:41 pm

Emel…I get your point about the history but the problem is all of these kids were born in the mid-90s. What do they care about what Pitt did in 50s? All they know is that as long as they have been alive Pitt has never been even close to a top flight team. When you struggle for decades at a time that is all the current recruits will know and remember.

On the other hand I totally agree about Smiley…he must have some real incriminating dirt on Nordenburg or something!!!

Comment by BCPITT 06.29.12 @ 4:49 pm

Reed:
I can only conclude that Chas needs to take a vacation to Central America…the all the sex you can stand kind…because that piece was filled with pent up rage…

I am all for criticizing people when and if they deserve it, but the venom was too close to the young man. Pitt…we…have more class than that.

As for Tino, if he wins the starting job, as long as it is based on performance and not finger crossing, I can’t complain. I view the season as a work in progress and what I Mooming for from Chryst is how he adjusts to the inevitable unpleasant circumstances. That could include bad QB play. In short, who starts the season is less important to me than who finishes.

Comment by SFPitt 06.29.12 @ 6:36 pm

Personally, I’m impressed by what Chryst is putting together, and was never on the window ledge. I was however drawn to the window by Frankcan’s pacing outside it.

Comment by marcus of schaumburg 06.29.12 @ 6:45 pm

I am new to this site (just graduated in April), but this article was too cruel for my taste, and I would expect better from even the most unhappy Pitt fans. I usually love Chas’ work, but this left a bad taste in my mouth.

I don’t think its fair to take out boiling frustration about Chryst’s recruiting on one kid. I also thought it was shameful to take a shot at his high school coach, who was just trying to talk up his player – who in his eyes was being under recruited.

If you are unhappy about PC’s recruiting efforts, as I know many are, I think it would be best to write a summary article explaining your opinions. But to make a kid’s commitment look embarrassing for our school like that does not seem very professional.

I was happy to see so many commenters rush to the kids defense, and after this post makes him look so bad, I tend to want to join in. The kid has the right size, and after watching his highlights, he has a nasty streak. I don’t have much faith in star rankings, but at least let the kid’s senior evaluations come out before you chalk him up as a waste of a scholarship. I hope Baker sees this article and uses it as determination to prove everyone wrong.

Hail to PITT

Comment by Pitt102 06.29.12 @ 7:15 pm

Second that, EMel, on Pederson. If he had his way on this latest hire, we’d have Cristobal – and his wife ready to hop on the next jet south – and we’d all be holding our breath, ready to cringe like a battered spouse when yet another coach bolts after a year or two. The program simply can’t take another jolt like that.

I’ll take steady, slow, “Coach-em-up Chryst.” Take your time, Paul, and build up our program with integrity and honor in a smashmouth, Pittsburgh style. Ignore the hysterics.

Comment by BATR 06.29.12 @ 7:31 pm

schaumburg i am not alone out there chas and tex panther and mike and a few outhers are out there with me and dockish.

Comment by FRANKCAN 06.29.12 @ 8:56 pm

Reed – why did you have to remind me that Tino is our starting QB? I had been feeling good about the season and forgot that he was still the QB. Gonna go bury my head in the sand

Comment by dish 06.29.12 @ 10:56 pm

Something I’ve learned about the recruiting tactics of Chryst and his staff.

The don’t offer a kid based only on a camp. They may get very interested based on what they see at camp but when we hear an offer was given out either at or directly after a camp they had already had the kid on their radar and had done their back ground homework on him.

Sometimes it works in reverse, they are interested in a player, do their background work and then they specifically invite that player to the camp to see him move in person.

They also require two complete game films instead of a highlights film as usually given out which is a highly detailed way of assessing and they don’t follow the star ranking system at all.

Say what we will about the ‘quality’ of these recruits but they are putting together a class of the type of players they want. That doesn’t mean they haven’t missed on players they really wanted – Dorian Johnson is one of course, but they aren’t throwing out offers just to fill up numbers.

Comment by Reed 07.01.12 @ 9:37 am

Welcome to the blogPitt102, buckle your chin strap it can get natsy. If you participate and state your opinion and some of the bloggers disagree with those opinions they will take aim directly at you rather than your opinion.

Comment by drw 07.02.12 @ 12:53 am

Something I know about Chryst and his coaching style.

He won’t be pacing the sidelnes looking lost when faced with having to make critical decisions in the heat of a game.

He also won’t have such a lack of confidence in his players, his coaches and himself to turn the third down pooch punt into a major offensive strategy.

These two facts will ultimately have the biggest impact on how much Pitt gets out of its two and three star recruits in comparison to previous coachig staffs.

Comment by PittofDreams 07.02.12 @ 6:39 am

PittofDreams great observation. Looking back at Weinstats and Grahams over emotional displays and confusison on the sidelines during the game. Their obvious seat of the pants coahing style. My perception was that any game DW coached either in the pro’s or college you had to spot the other team 7 points.

Worse was Graham the spot was 14 for the opponent.

Leave the tunnel for the kickoff down 14 to 0.

Comment by drw 07.02.12 @ 11:11 am

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