Hey, I gave you nearly a week without an expansiopocolypse post.
Those who believe that FSU and Clemson/Miami/Georgia Tech/[random other team] are definitely going to the Big 12 aren’t phased by the sudden quiet of expansiopocolypse. This is merely the calm before all hell breaks loose by the end of July/beginning of August when the moves happen. That everyone is getting their ducks in a row. Things are being put in place. No one wants a lawsuit from the ACC against the Big 12 for tortious interference. That the other reason for the wait is finalizing the details of the TV deals is still ongoing.
Those don’t believe it is happening are pointing to the quiet as evidence that the whole thing was overblown. A creation of ignorance, simmering resentments and loud-mouthed boosters and trustees. That the abrupt silence after the Big 12 meetings have been dissected show that everyone is repositioning and rethinking things.
I have no idea. My working theory is that exapnsiopocolypse and the ACC/Big 12 isn’t going away, but it is a long-game. Not to be resolved this summer or even next. I, personally, believe the Big 12 is going to wait a year or two before doing anything. I actually believe part of what the Big 12 is saying, at least as far as catching their breath, simply because it makes the most sense. Their conference has radically changed in the last couple of years. The voting blocks, personalities, interests — and a new commissioner all need to see where things stand. That all suggests needing at least a year to work things out with one another. I also think there is a strong enough infatuation in the conference (beyond simply Texas) over the possibilities of Notre Dame that they will wait and see how that goes, especially with the coming playoffs.
One of the things being bandied about to preserve the ACC is changing how the bowl revenue is distributed. Like all of the other BCS conferences the bowl money is pooled. Each bowl team gets a portion for their bowl travel expenses and the rest is distributed equally. The idea being that schools that get the bigger bowl bids — and bigger payouts — get to keep a larger cut.
If this plan had been in effect since the ACC went to 11 in 2004, the biggest beneficiary would have been Virginia Tech. They’ve been to more BCS bowls and top-tier ones. The total payout for the bowls they have attended in that time frame: $83.4 million. A distant second is Clemson at $33.7 million.
Not sure about the viability of such a plan, really. To get something like that to pass, the ACC might also have to go to unequal distribution of NCAA basketball tournament money as well. An idea that might further Balkanize the ACC, and hurt football even more than it helps keep the conference intact for the short term..
Teams like Duke and Wake Forest (based on their overall size and history) might make a rational economic decision that the costs to even try to be competitive in football — coaching and support staff salaries, recruiting budget, equipment, expenses for stadium and football practice fields and facilities — are not worth the value of trying to be or stay competitive. That their money would be better spent on the basketball side, where overall costs are lower and they have greater history and support. Meaning that the teams at the bottom of the ACC get even worse, and drag down the conference reputation in football further. Yes, there is an easy Duke football joke to make, but at least Duke is making an actual effort at the moment. Would other schools — like, say BC — begin to make a similar valuation?
One aspect from the Big 12 meeting, that further drove FSU and Clemson fans into rage and lust. The announcement that the Big 12 distributed $19 million to each member for the past year. Never mind that it included $40 million in exit fees from Texas A&M and Mizzou (less $10 million for their loan to WVU), along with bowl money and NCAA Tournament money. And the money for that year was only split 8-ways. Not to mention that the newest member — WVU won’t be receiving a full cut until 2016.
Final ACC item. I related before the Clemson grudge against
A couple pieces from ChuckOliver.net writers deserve mention. This one from Chadd Scott lists several of the storylines that have helped fuel the ACC expansiopocolypse — even when they weren’t true or exaggerated grossly. This one from Taylor King, takes aim at Clemson fans who are convinced that the ACC holds them back, and has always held them back.
All of Clemson’s lack of success falls on its own shoulders. I’ve read on message boards that belonging to the ACC has hurt Clemson in recruiting. Clemson has had a recent string of top 20 recruiting classes. Clemson generally out recruits every other ACC school but Florida State and Miami. But even while having ridiculously talented players like CJ Spiller, James Davis, Gaines Adams, Charlie Whitehurst, Da’Quan Bowers, and Jacoby Ford, the Tigers have managed one ACC Championship since divisional play began and only one other appearance in the game. Also note that Clemson is near two of the top states in the country for college prospects, Georgia and Florida, but has not capitalized on recruiting in these areas as much as they should have. Both states offer hundreds of top notch players and Dabo Swinney and his staff have done a fair job getting players in those states, they have not capitalized on its proximity to such talent rich areas.
The only thing uncomfortable about this article is if you are a Pitt fan who is convinced that the Big East is the reason for Pitt’s football struggles. Or know someone who believes it. A lot of the same arguments apply to Pitt. In the time since the ACC first raided the Big East, Pitt has been tops or near the tops in recruiting within the Big East. Yet, little to show for it. The facilities are top notch. Still fertile recruiting around the school (even if Western PA isn’t what it once was) and bordering the state.
Anyone convinced that Pitt will immediately rise because they will be in the ACC is kidding themselves. Pitt will have a chance to contend in the ACC, in time, thanks to a boost in revenue to increase recruiting budgets and pay coaches. And if Paul Chryst is the coach we believe/hope he is. But not because Pitt will be vastly more attractive playing in the ACC vs. the Big East.
Final item. Remember the grudge Clemson still holds against ACC Commissioner Swofford for his actions 30+ years ago. The actions that forever paint him as hating Clemson and looking to help his alma mater and old employer, UNC? The fact that they are looking for equal justice now that UNC faces its own punishment in their football scandal?
In a related matter, North Carolina State folks are having their own moment of wanting/waiting for equal justice. Only this time with the University of North Carolina Board of Governors. The oversight body for the North Carolina university system under which UNC and NC St. are governed.
In January 1989, news broke about the looming publication of a book called “Personal Fouls” that promised to chronicle wrongdoing in Jim Valvano’s basketball program at N.C. State. The allegations on the book jacket hit like a bombshell.
Within days, the NCAA was looking into it. Within weeks, UNC system President C.D. Spangler Jr. launched what he termed “an impartial and complete investigation.”
A UNC system panel known as the Poole Commission brought in State Bureau of Investigation agents, interviewed 160 people and reviewed hundreds of documents during a six-month period. The probe set the stage for the resignation of NCSU’s chancellor, Bruce Poulton, and the departure of Valvano as athletics director. Valvano later stepped down as coach.
The allegations in the book turned out to be mostly untrue. The probe did uncover other problems, but the probe was much more reactionary and did a lot of damage to NC State basketball.
Now, 23 years later, UNC has their football scandal, and what appears to be major academic fraud in an entire department of the school itself. The investigations continue, but the Board of Governors is staying out of this. You can imagine how that sits with NC St. fans and alum who have always felt like they are treated like the smaller, little brother in the UNC system.
That hands-off approach stings the Wolfpack faithful, who see a double standard. Grover Gore Sr., an attorney from Banner Elk and a former NCSU trustee, said system leaders are “sticking their heads in the sand.”
“It’s absolutely incredible that the president or Board of Governors have made no attempt to even investigate,” said Gore, who also served on the board of the system when it consisted of fewer campuses. “It clearly, clearly shows and proves that the president of the system and the Board of Governors, they have two rules — one rule for UNC-Chapel Hill, and another rule for N.C. State and everybody else.”
The fact that both UNC and NC St. are overseen by the same body, though, is also why expansiopocolypse scenarios where NC State or UNC being poached by the SEC, Big 10 or Big 12 are rather unrealistic. They are definitely a package deal. Neither would allow the other to leave them behind.
How about a Post on Pitt’s Ulimate Frisbee Nat’l Title…?
(kidding)
But I’m thinking, with the stench on all these programs how has Pitt been able to stay squeaky clean?
Ah, by losing as much as winning.
chas if you want to write abought some thing how abought this the thought bye some in the know is that the big east will get only 10 million in there new tv deal that they fucked up when they did not take the 13 million that was offered last time. now that is a real kick in the ass for them is it not.
While there is really no news on expansion, I found the info about how the ACC and State of North Carolina reacted to previous improprieties committed by Clemson and NC St to be enlightenig, and will be interested to see what will happen, if anything, to UNC.
I apologize though, you guys do great work and your efforts should be noted and recognized.
Right, there isn’t much news, as it’s June. No college football, no college basketball.
Chas just spoke about the lawsuit, just spoke about Trey Ziegler becoming eligible.
What else do you want to talk about? How the 3rd team fullback is doing with his summer classes??
What receivers are we recruiting for 2017???
How will Stven Adams do against Alcorn St.??
AND……….if he wrote nothing for a couple of weeks, people would say, “ah, that Panther Blather, they’re so-so, they only put something on there every once in awhile”.
Nope, don’t know Chas, don’t get paid by him.
This is what is in the news right now. And, it is the lull in the story, when the BCS meetings happen in a few days or a week, it’s gonna take off again.
Thankfully Chas and Reed write something 3 or 4 times a week, instead of some of the places where they write an article, and you never see them again for 2 or 3 weeks, and wonder if they’re still operating.
Actually, I find it quite amazing that there are as many articles on this site as there are.
P.S. Every college blog I’ve seen the past few weeks has had nothing but expansion talk also. Maybe more so on here, and ACC blogs, because it will effect these schools more.
My guess: Awfully
If you don’t want to read them, DON’T, keep your inane comments to yourself. Chas providing links to all these other news sources is great and saves ALL of us time in either finding them or NOT seeing them at all. Yuppers.
Wtf, you want more articles about Sir Tino ?
Pleaseeeeeeee.
but
if the acc could get both psu and nd to join the onference, i assume they would be in separate divisions with cross-over for football. we’d go to four pod structure within each division.
how might you like it to shake down?
it’s an open thread and i think academics matters to a lot of “power” schools.
what do you think?
FSU’s problems are self-inflicted, mainly letting Bowden do at FSU what Paterno did at Ped State, minus Sandusky and child molestation. Which was stay the fuck to long !
Clemson, is a long standing joke down here( I live in the Carolinas), nobody even takes them seriously. If they want to leave, let em. However I don’t think anyway really wants them except as a stable mate. They wouldn’t even have that National Championship in 1980 if PITT would have played them that year. We destroyed them the year before in the Gator Bowl. Would have destroyed them in 1980 as well.
Hail to Pitt !
Veritas et Virtus
but why not wish for Texas & ND. F8ck Ped State, who’s want to be in conference that has a school that condones child molestation. And then covers it up for over 10 years ! Disgusting isn’t it !
No thanks I think Ohio State (maurice clarett and the tattoo drug dealer players, Pryor, etc.) & Ped State deserve each other.
but maybe..let’s get speculative. Maybe a post on how our schedule will look in 2013 and beyond assuming we can leave for the ACC by then?
C’mon
Can’t even be mad really, I myself wish we’d schedule 4 BCS for selfish reasons. Facts are, all of the BCS teams, need a couple cupcakes for home games to make the budgets. If you get into too many home and homes, you’d have years where you only have 5 home games. Ain’t gonna work.
I also noticed, Ohio State has 8 home games this year, how they worked that out???
It just amazes me that a school like West Vagina can have such a successful program and a school like Pitt which obviously has so much more going for it has been mired in mediocrity for what seems like forever. Guess that goes to show you the difference an AD makes.
1. a captive local audience where the WVU is the initial and main sports story
2. few empty seats for its home games
3. a fanbase that travels to its away games and bowl games (including the Tire Bowl in Birmingham)
4. a long-time coach (Nehken) who was the first northern coach to recognize the importance of recruing the south in acquiring speed and talent
5. a non-interruption in their style of play from coach to coach. Nehlen used mobile QBs (Major Harris) and speedy WRs; RichRod went to the spread using much of the same type of players (just 1 down year – 2001); and, the coaches who followed didnt change that much either.
6. as mentioned above, a proactive AD who gets it
Same goes to Clemson and FSU if they decide to bolt. You’ll be rolling in money, is that ok at 7-5???
Not sour grapes either. Just a reality that may very well happen. Seeing some FSU and Clemson posters, the next sentence out of their mouth, right after “we will be rolling in money”, is quite amazing, they always add, we’ll be 10-2, 11-1, 12-0!!!!
The only thing I have to say is, good luck with all of that, however, if you do start going 6-6, 7-5, 8-4, don’t start telling me about how much harder your schedule is and how much tougher your conference is.
You decided to go there, you picked where you wanted to go, don’t whine, deal with it.
WVU, and Clemson and FSU if they go, will have a much harder time being 10-2 every year. Hell, they haven’t done it much in the ACC, let alonge the Big 12.
So, if they do jump, I don’t want to hear any whining about the conference they play in.
i.e. WVU is 8-4 and Pitt somehow pulls off a 10-2.
don’t want to hear any non-sense from their schools or fans about strength of conference.
Certainly the news media and polls can take that into consideration, but not the schools and fans who wanted to jump.
My comments above, are really geared to Florida St and Clemson if they jump ship. The schools and their fans.
I know it’s about money, I’m just sayin’. FSU hasn’t beaten Wake Forest in 5 years, Clemson got demolished by said WVU.
So, you’re gonna go to the Big 12 and be 10-2, 11-1 every year??
Ya, I know, for what it’s worth. Nothin’.
Probably just another denial.
This is the same genius who thought that having Stewart and Holgorsen as co-coaches was a good idea. Think WVU wins the Orange Bowl with that set-up? He lucked out in that Colin Dunlap chose to be a snitch.
Why has WVU been more sucessful? Simple:
1. Lower academic standards
2. Fan base that gives twice as much money
3. Fan base that doesn’t tolerate or pine for a mediocre coach (see below)
4. Better coaches.
Bill Stewart won 28 games in his 3 seasons at WVU, including a 2-1 mark against Pitt. WVU fans couldn’t wait to get rid of him.
During those 3 seasons, Dave Wannstedt won 26 games. We still have a chunk of fans defending him, despiting him burying the program from 2005-2007, and him potentially burying the program down the road with his shoddy QB evaluation.
Line #4 is why WVU has had more success lately.
As for coaching staff camaraderie, what would you expect? They are still celebrating their Orange Bowl victory. We acted the same way after 13-9.
@wbb.
Without looking it up, wasn’t Jackie Sherrill at Pitt before Nehlen was at wvu. And that would make Sherrill the first coach at a Northern school (PITT) to recognize the importance of recruiting the south for speed and talent. I believe Cignetti was at wvu when Sherrill was here.
Just sayin
while Pitt de-emphasized football after the Gottfried/Hackett mess. And we lack the one big donor who wants to make PITT Top 5 again. (see T. Boone Pickens)
Comment by originalether 06.07.12 @ 5:48 pm
It wasn’t so much shoddy QB evaluation, as he signed a 5 star QB in Pat Bostick. It was throwing him into the fire too fast, which didn’t help at all with his development(actually retarded it). If Bostick would have panned out, there would have been no Sunseri to deal with(except maybe one year, Bostick had misfortune that Tiny came to PITT). Stull’s play his senior year was very good. Wanny inherited Palko who was coming off an excellent sophomore year despite the Fiesta Bowl flop. And Wanny had Gary Nova (another 4 star) recruited for 2011 before Fraudgate.
Bottom line remains Pitt hadn’t won as many games in 3 years (2008-2010) since the Marino years (1980-1982). And those teams had the phenomenal defenses loaded with future NFL all pros.
And now after all the screwups by Smiley, we’re back to playing Wannyball. Except it remains to be seen whether PC can recruit as well but hopefully coach em up better. We shall see !
Point is, if Voytik isn’t the real deal, we could have some problems over the next few seasons.
8 BTen games half at home
110,000 at every home game means big payout for out of conference foe
All Ohio schools play in Columbus gladly (except UC–bad blood there) to suck in cash and tell recruits you will play in the Horseshoe
OSU schedules a home/away with good non conference team every year. Next year they travel to Berkley and play Cal, in 2013 they have VTECH in Col., the following year in Blacksburg, the following year at Oklahoma.
8 home games every other year.
I assure you, if we fill Heinz field, we eventually get privileges.
In everything that has anything to do with business MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS.
I know its a slow news time, but this stuff has been beaten like a horse.
Ive never seen a blog dedicate so much time to a matter that really has no immediate affect on Pitt; FSU and Clemson is not going anywhere.
The ACC will be exactly the same in 2016 that is is in June 2012.
GET OVER IT.