One of our regular and more prolific posters, dhuffdaddy, wrote this in a comment while in one of his more lucid moments the other day:
“Eight in the box with run blitzes will expose Tino and will lead to 5-6 sacks per game. The passing game needs to set up the running game except if you are alabama, lsu, etc. We are not elite linemen or runners and have no threats at receiver to actually hurt opponents for putting 8 in a box. PC has his work cut out for him and I expect him to do well.”
The idea of a defense stacking the box with Sunseri is, and has been, a common complaint of PITT fans looking back on 2010 and forward to 2011. But what really happens when Sunseri is at QB and what impact does this have on our offense now and in the past?
There is no doubt in anyone’s mind that our QB play contributed to the dramatically putrid sack numbers last season. But some blame has to be shared and it can be in different ways. A lot of the problem in not getting the passes off in time was based on the overall confusion that the PITT offensive players had with Graham’s offense. This is a somewhat hidden issue but one that greatly contributes. We heard both Shanahan and Saddler stating that the staff basically said ‘run out to a zone and get open‘.
It also had to do with the fact that our OL was like a sieve on passing plays. What looked like ‘too long‘ sometimes was magnified because of that. In an ESPN article their beat writer sums it up correctly:
“Pitt was bad in pass protection, though mostly because of strange blocking schemes that none of the players fully endorsed. Sunseri held on to the ball way too long, too. Let’s face it — neither Sunseri nor his offensive linemen ever fully grasped the timing concept that is the heart of the Graham offense. “
Add the WR confusion to that and you get 62 sacks and a pissed off fanbase.
However, this problem wasn’t as prevalent during the 2010 season when Sunseri was more comfortable in the Pro-Set offense and had a better OL in front of him. That offense required the OL to hold their blocks longer and we saw a more normal passing game because of it. That year he was was sacked only 23 times for 1.77 sacks per game. I believe we’ll see this aspect of the offense level back down to 2010 sack numbers or even better.
As far as stacking the box against Sunseri? That happened some in both 2011 and 2010 and in ’10 we had 1088 rushing yards from Lewis and 958 from Graham. In addition, last season when the defenses really moved up into the box, Ray Graham had almost 1000 yards in the first seven games. We had decent rushing success with whatever the defense did.
I think this is an issue that PITT fans may worry about too much sometimes. There is an impact and the ideal situation would be that run stacking doesn’t happen at all because of a productive and efficient passing game, but even if the defenses do come up it isn’t the end of the world.
Our running game has been pretty good with Sunseri as QB. We were 45th nationally in 2010 and, even with Graham’s injury, 72nd in 2011. Had Graham not been injured halfway through the year we’d have been in the top 50 last year also. You may say that isn’t too good either but here’s the thing…
… PITT has never had a fantastic rushing game even under Wannstedt with any QB at the helm. He had some decent years but his running game had an average rank of 64th. However, Wannstedt did show improvements every year culminating in his best season in 2009 because he built to a strong running game.
What is going to be the difference between Todd Graham and Paul Chryst is that Chryst will also build to a strong running base. He’s done this every year while OC at Wisconsin with sterling results. Where the run game was an afterthought in the “High Octane” offense it will be the bell cow in Chryst’s.
Even with that you’ll see our 2011 yardage totals, under Graham and with the same QB we’ll have this year, were the third best in yardage but dropped to the fifth best in yards per carry over the last seven years.
Here is how we ranked from 2005 to 2011:
2011 – 72nd – 1824 yds/3.52 ypc/21 TDs; Sunseri and Graham /Brown
2010 – 45th – 2154 yds/4.58 ypc/24 TDs; Sunseri and Lewis /Graham
2009 – 34th – 2344 yds/4 .89 ypc/25 TDs; Stull and Lewis / Graham
2008 – 65th – 1808 yds/3.67 ypc/29 TDs; Stull and McCoy / Stevens-Howling
2007 – 71st – 1697 yds/3.62 ypc/20 TDs; Bostick and McCoy / Stevens-Howling
2006 – 78th – 1476 yds/3.88 ypc/15 TDs; Palko and Stevens-Howling / Brooks
2005 – 93rd – 1285 yds/3.20 ypc/9 TDs; Palko and Stevens-Howling / Jennings
Out of those seven years we can say that we had subpar passing QBs four times, once with Bostick, once with Stull and twice with Sunseri. Yet in each of those years we had at least a 1000 yard rusher and three of those years we had star RBs and fantastic production out of McCoy, Lewis and Graham.
In Stull’s good 2009 season we fared the best on the ground which makes sense. A telling point is that even with Tyler Palko, coming off his great 2004 SO year, we our two worst all around rushing years in 2005 and 2006.
So, does the fact that Sunseri will be starting at QB automatically mean we’ll see eight in the box and a terrible ground game? Who really knows, but I don’t think so. Historically we’ve still been able to move the ball on the ground even without a great passing game. Obviously a better passing game equates to more yards on the ground though and that would be really what we want.
If Graham comes back to his pre-injury form, Bennett plays at the level he did in the spring and Shell contributes we’ll have a good, if not very good, running game with Sunseri back there. If Sunseri can regain the confidence and composure he had in 2010, with a less porous OL, then that’s all the better.
In 2010 Tino was an unknown to the Pitt opposition. Opposing defenses in 2010 (Tino’s rookie season)didn’t have the knowledge that Tino was no threat to complete a long pass so going back to a pro style offense will not really help Tino. The Big East teams don’t respect his arm and will pound the Pitt offensive line with blitz packages all day. Tino is a known commodity as a QB and nothing that Chryst does will improve Tino’s play. Let’s play 3 TEs on every play and forego wide receivers running the ball on every down. Its what every body did before the forward pass was invented .
Another thing Reed mentioned was the lack of the wide receivers needing to run specific routes in the “high octane” offense. I think that was the result of a huge communication issue between the former staff and their wide receivers. If you watch the Oregon Ducks offense, their receivers are definitely running routes with contigency routes when the quarterback is in scramble mode.
Based on the video coming out of spring camp, Chryst as well as Bobby Engram were very much drilling into the receivers where they should be on the field on each of their routes. There was one specific instance where Chryst was miked and he was showing a receiver where the open area would be when two other receivers cleared the area. The biggest onus on Tino will be his ability to hit hot receivers on blitzes. If he can do that along with selling play action, we should be OK. All I ask of Tino is that he not try to do too much. Hopefully Chryst is of the same opinion. We can expand the offense in 2013 with a real quarterback whomever that person will be.
I do wish the players…and Tino himself…had more confidence in Tino.
how is that steve 1
When combined, that leads to disaster. The problem is that the qb is the one that always looks dysfunctional when the other parts are not working. Pitt lost some rather significant leads with Tino as the qb. The reason was that defenses started to send the house, knowing Pitt would try to rely on its running game and making Tino beat them with pin point accuracy and quick decision-making skills, none of which he possesses.
I could go on ad nauseum about this and also clock management which is usually terrible, especially under DW. How many times did Pitt have a big lead and blow it at the end? Pitt would try to milk the clock and run three times. On fourth down, with 22 seconds left on the play clock, we would snap the ball. Poof, there goes 20 seconds we could have killed, but I digress.
The point is, there is plenty of blame, but it all goes back to your leaders on the field. They can either get the job done or they can’t. To date, Tino has not. Perhaps under Paul Chryst he becomes serviceable. I would be disappointed to get eight or nine games into a bad season and then have one of the younger guys get a shot if it’s not going well. That would be a waste and wouldn’t prepare the team for the future as we would be starting from scratch at the most important position next year. The qb touches the ball on every snap. He needs to prioritize the ball first (no fumbles,no int’s); secondly he should not take negative yards; third, we should always be moving the ball downhill; and when there is pressure, we should not see a stain on the back of his trousers. “At least Stoudt through the ball” LOL
penn state sucks WVU sucks
tino sucks and if you done belive me ask EMel
but PITT is gods country the most wonderful of schools and we should be number 1 every year in BB as well as FootBall that is are goal hail to PITT
SCREW PENN STATE I HAVE HATED PENN STATE SENCE 1962
This afternoon I was privileged to be there to see Pitt beat RU in a thriller.
Elvin Soto our GTG.
PISCATAWAY, N.J. – The Pitt baseball team moved one win closer to the final playoff spot in the BIG EAST, holding on for a thrilling 4-3 win at Rutgers on Sunday. The Panthers took two out of three games from the Scarlet Knights, winning a conference series for the second straight weekend.
Leading by one run with one out in the bottom of the ninth inning, freshman closer Tanner Wilt faced a tough task for any pitcher, let alone one still in his first college season. With the bases loaded and one of the conference’s top hitters at the plate, Wilt got Patrick Kivlehan to ground into a 5-3 double play to end the game.
“We made some big plays in big situations. Obviously that play at the end of the game was huge,” said Pitt head coach Joe Jordano. “You’ve got the bases loaded with one out and their best hitter, maybe the best hitter in the conference, coming up to the plate. We did a great job and made a great play.”
Kivlehan entered the game with a .403 average, 10 home runs and a .486 on-base percentage. With nowhere to put him, Wilt had to go right at him. Third baseman Sam Parente made a nice play on the groundball, touched third and threw to first baseman Rick Devereaux, who also made a great play by tagging the runner following an off-target throw.
Matt Wotherspoon picked up his fourth win of the season, giving up three runs on four hits and three walks. He struck out four batters in 7.2 innings of work.
While Wotherspoon pitched a great game, he had some help from right fielder Casey Roche early on. Roche made a game-changing play by robbing Charlie Law of a solo home run in the second inning. The catch was made on a towering fly ball that was about to drop on the other side of the right-center field fence.
“It was very exciting. We really needed to win that ballgame and win the series,” said Jordano. “As we’ve been saying, we’re in a must-win situation. There were some big plays and some big pitches. That was a heck of a team win today.”
Offensively, the Panthers strung hits together when they needed to, tallying five of their eight hits in two innings, both of which resulted in two runs.
With one out in the third inning, Stephen Vranka and Anthony Defabio hit back-to-back doubles to tie the game at 1-1. One batter later, Rick Devereaux gave Pitt a 2-1 lead with a RBI single.
Sam Parente upped the lead to 4-1 with a two-run single in the fifth inning. The Panthers again started the rally with one out as Derik Wilson singled and Vranka walked. They each advanced one base on DeFabio’s sacrifice bunt and scored on the two-out hit by Parente.
Wotherspoon ended up giving up one run in the sixth inning and another in the eighth inning, but a trio of relievers – J.R. Leonardi, Joe Harvey and Wilt – helped preserve the lead.
“It was a great game all-around,” Jordano said. “I’m very excited about it and we just have to keep moving forward.”
Jordano and the Panthers, of course, have their eyes set on qualifying for the conference tournament. They entered the weekend two games back of Villanova for the eighth and final spot, but now sit just one game back as the Wildcats lost two of three to Notre Dame.
Pitt will host a midweek non-conference game against Akron on Tuesday before travelling to Seton Hall for a BIG EAST series this weekend. The Panthers will play a doubleheader with the Pirates on Friday and one game on Sunday in the first of their final two conferences series of the season.
Great reference also to the Federal Register – it is wordy as hell but has the force of law. Sort of like my opinions about PITT football except now I don’t have a Lawyer, Environmentalist, Economist and Technical Writer doing the work for me like I used to. I’m still the Subject Matter Expert though.
Another point that I didn’t really consider was that in 2010 Sunseri had completed ten (over 30 yards from LOS and yes, I counted) deep passes to Jon Baldwin. That kept the defenses honest also.
When I looked back and saw films of those deep passes I was struck but how many were actually thrown well. Granted Baldwin made his share of circus catches but Sunseri was on mark way more than last year. That happens when you have more time to throw. So that is a component that would, obviously, really help this year.
John, the communication problems last year were certainly one of the things that led to the offensive breakdown at crucial points. That was something we heard from the players after Graham left.
Spindler – you act as if Sunseri can’t throw a forward pass to save his life and that just isn’t true. His passing isn’t what the big negative for him is, it is his lack of composure under pressure and consistency. If you go back and look at Sunseri yards per completion in his two starting years he has a 11.0 rate which isn’t half bad. He has a 67% completion rate which is very good even if it is mostly short/intermediate throws. He was the 41st rated passer in D1 last year so contrary to some PITT fan’s beliefs he isn’t the worst QB in college football.
He can pass the football and depending on what Chryst and Rudolph ask of him he could be pretty effective in this offense. Let’s don’t let the things he does terribly cloud our judgement on other things he does pretty well. Again, he’s never going to be a star QB but to infer he can’t pass at all is ridiculous.
I think it is amazing that the same QB in his first year as a starter threw 17 TDs under the the ‘dumb, defensive’ coach … 7 more than in his 2nd year under the ‘offensive genius’ despite throwing 99 more passes (not to mention being sacked nearly 3 times as much.)
No, Tino will never be confused with Oakland Dan, and Wanny will never be confused with young Johnny Majors … but I will guarantee you that Graham was a fraud for more than just 1 reason
Secondly, Tino can continue to suck while we win games in this weak BE schedule. Before we start discussing this topic come fall camp, I’m already on record and confident that we win 8 games easy this year, no matter how large the vacuum is that Sunseri creates this coming season.
Thirdly, Chryst supposedly plans his game around the player’s potentials. If this is in fact the case, then Tino will be throwing the ball consistantly under 30 yards all season, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. A half decent QB can dink & dunk the hell out of a defense that commits to 8 in the box to stop the run especially if you have a game plan that disguises a lot of those plays by utilization of the tight end.
When I watched the Spring Blue/Gold game I saw a lot of tight end formations, sometimes double tight end formations that then would go in motion to set up mismatches with the LBs and secondary. It looks like a power running formation then the mismatch is created and if a quick defensive adjustment doesn’t happen a tight end gets open in the flat or over the top in these types of pass plays. I also saw quite a few fullback coming out of the backfield pass plays as well. All of the above can be effective in keeping a defense honest, and although there are no home run pass plays in that arrangement,depending on the guy who cathes the pass,there is the potential of significant YAC production. And that keeps the 1st&10s coming.
Not to discount FRANKCAN’S standard opinion, Tino Sunseri actually can have a successful season if he operates consistantly within his skill set. Yes, that set is limited, but if Coach Chryst plays to these strenghts then Tino should be able to perform adequately. This is predicated however on Tino losing one glaring deficiency in his game, that is him taking unnecessary sacks! There is little to learn about throwing the ball away when the play breaks down and you’re about to be leveled other than keeping your composure. If Tino can get that through his head and not reproduce last year’s record for sacks in a season we might even win more than 8 games.
Here’s the breakdown:
Utah – 14
New Hampsire – 7
Miami – 3
FIU – 28
Notre Dame – 7
Syracuse – 10
Rutgers – 7
Louisville – 7
UConn – 7
USF – 7
WVU – 0
Cincy – 7
Kentucky – 7
Notice that most of them came against inferior opposition, or in blowouts. The only ones you can give any real credit to is Utah (to force OT) and USF (broke a 4h quarter tie).
The 2010 team should have had better stats. They had more talent.
The 2010 team had Balwin, Lewis, Pinkston, Jacobson, and Nix for the entire season, plus Ray Graham for 11 games.
a. Fair or not, the QB is always the player who will take a the majority of the blame or credit, and
b. Tino is the one constant between the two seasons.
Sunseri, in turn, has to trust this staff and believe that they are acting in his and the team’s best interest. Then he has to play ‘within’ himself and not try to make dramatic plays – as he did last year when he scrambled around instead of throwing the ball away. Some of that was panic, sure, but there were times he was still trying to get off a pass.
I can’t stress enough how that didn’t happen with Graham last season. Graham was so hell bent on showing everyone what an offensive genius he was that he forgot who he had playing in the offense for him.
I doubt Chryst and Rudolph will do that.
I’m getting tired of the excuses from the players on this team for last year (both the implicit and explicit). Graham leaving has given the team an excuse and it’s starting to rub me the wrong way. There was a lot of quit in this team last year and that was before Fraud up and bolted. The new staff may be able to correct some of this but there are still some bad seeds out there. The defense being the exception – I didn’t see any quit from them even early in the season when they were struggling.
There may have been circumstances that lead to this (loyalty – Wanny, upheaval – wife beater, chaos – Graham) but at some point enough is enough. This time last year, Pitt players were genuinely excited about the new system…until they weren’t.
Graham calling out players was not cool, but you have to remember Myers basically quit on them in the summer and lost his backup spot, the WRs were not buying into the system and putting out the proper effort and the QB was not learning from his mistakes. If the players were quitting then they should be called out…and all indications are that they were.
The O-Line struggled but I don’t remember Graham calling them out – maybe because they didn’t quit and kept playing hard. Nix was the exception but he wasn’t even playing (to better his draft status and where did that get him).
The players have had a shitty run of it, but it’s time to just move on. I hate excuses and they are beginning to pile up. I was excited for Graham’s system but obviously it’s not a good fit for Pitt and Pittsburgh – it’s not what the fans want to see.
I liked the idea of a change (spread) but after last year’s experiment I’m all on board for Chryst-ball…I just hope the players REALLY are, until they aren’t.