I don’t know what this does for the recruitment of Savon Goodman. Whether it helps land Goodman because of the talent coming and on the roster along with the potential for big minutes early — if not starting at power forward — or if it means Pitt backs off on Goodman because it would mean either pulling the offer to Chris Jones or forcing another player off the team.
Frankly the issue is not comfortable either way. It bothered me when Pitt had to encourage Jaylen Bond to review his options after Khem Birch reclassified last year. It is one of the most unseemly thing about College basketball. Treating kids recruited and promised to be treated as family abruptly as commodities.
Some of it is simply the one-sidedness of it. Kids are locked into the program. They can have restrictions placed on them if they want to leave, along with sitting a year; while the scholarships are one-year deals with school options only. A coach can abruptly shift from “family” to “it’s nothing personal, just business” based on the performance. And yes, I know everyone does it, it’s necessary, and all of that. It doesn’t mean that it is right or okay.
But shifting back to Trey Zeigler coming to Pitt.
There is no question that Pitt got a player that upgrades the position.
Pitt could certainly use Zeigler, a shooting guard, next season if he is eligible. The Panthers lose Ashton Gibbs, the school’s No. 8 all-time scorer, to graduation. Two freshmen — Cameron Wright and John Johnson — started games at shooting guard this season when Gibbs had to play the point, but both struggled.
Zeigler would add scoring punch and rebounding to the lineup. He led Central Michigan in both statistical categories this past season. He averaged 15.8 points and 6.7 rebounds per game. He averaged 16.3 points and 5.4 rebounds per game as a freshman in 2010-11.
It seems a lot like a Mike Cook situation as far as being the guy to carry a team. Mike Cook played two years at East Carolina before transferring to Pitt. He was the best player on the team, and had to do everything. After a coaching change, he wanted out. He wanted to be on a better team and a team that did not have to have him do everything.
Zeigler’s freshman and sophomore seasons show a player that immediately had to carry the load. As a freshman, he led the team in minutes played and scoring. He was second in rebounding (and the leading defensive rebounder) and steals. He had the most assists on the team — as he also had to take some point guard duties when the starting point guard quit the team in January.
In his sophomre year, he was second on the team in minutes played, but led the team in scoring and rebounding (offensive and defensive). He was second on the team in assists (by a difference of 6 assists). He was also second on the team in steals and blocks. I mean, how many teams have a shooting guard that is second on the teams in blocks. Yes he also led the team in turnovers, but considering how much the ball was in his hands and he was the focal point of the offense it is hardly a shock.
As for his eligibility, he is applying for a sort of hardship waiver to play immediately. Owing to the nature of his father being fired as head coach at CMU. No one really knows the answer on this one. Someone has noted an example in college baseball. Cade Kreuter was allowed to transfer and play right away at Miami after his father was fired as baseball coach at USC. No idea whether the same rules apply.
Regardless, Zeigler will be enrolling at Pitt for the summer classes and will be taking part in the Greentree Pro-Am league. He’s not going to waste any time getting to know and playing with the other Pitt players.
However there is one problem. Jamie yelling from the sideline, “Hey Tra/ey, set it up for Tre/ay!”
People assuming Wright would be the one to be pushed out might want to consider he played more than John Johnson the latter half of year, including starting those last few games. Plus, Johnson openly complained several times via Twitter towards the end of the season, so he may be more receptive to an opportunity to bolt. All speculation, of course.
But he also has worse than a 1:1 Assit:turn-over ratio in his career. I understand he’s a sophomore, but he’s playing in the Mac too. About comparable to JJ Moore. His shooting percentages (FT, FG and 3Pts) are worse than Moore’s.
The good news seems to be that he’s a little more active/better on D statistically speaking. But again this was in the MAC.
Moore is maybe not the best reference point. Mike Cook is the comparison probably. I’m jsut a little apprehensive. I mean CMU was BAD. cant say i know how good/bad the rest of the team was but it gives me pause. I gotta look and see what Cook as like before he came and maybe i’ll be more hopeful. Then again, Cooke was solid but was maybe the 4th or 5th best on the team when he was here? my memory is a little cloudy.
I just hope Zeigler can adjust and fall in line with the system early. We can definitely use some more of the ability Zeigler has on the team.
BTW, Rocky, outside of Duke/UNC, or arguably even including them, the BE has been better than the ACC for about 10yrs and we’ve done fine. WE’re not exactly stepping up to harder competition. UConn and Cuse and GTown and Nova and Louisville all have ahad recruiting classes like NC States in the past and we’ve been OK as far as conference play goes
The disappointing Taylor:
18 minutes a game, 4.9 rebounds, 5.8 points.
I guess the grass is always greener….
Cook also had a worse A:TO ratio.
I’m now mmuch more hopefull. Even if he comes in and is basically Cook reincarnate, he’ll be one of the 4 best players (one of whom, Adams, is an future NBA guy).
and btw, i have nothing against Cook, he was top 4 or 5 on a team that had 2 NBA guys one borderline/D-league NBA guy (Biggs) and an all-Big East player (Fields), so saying he’s 4 or 5th best on a that team isn’t a slight at all. just perspective i guess.
Zeigler will help. And I think its clear, as discussed all season, how fine a line it is between good teams and bad teams. A big improvement at center here, a little improvement at the guard position there, and we’re back to being ranked. A few other things fall into place and its not a stretch to be back to the top 10 competing for conf titles again. Looking at what we’ve got next year, we’ve done more with less in the past.
i say wright goes he cant score and they are called shoting guards for a reason
Duquesne will take him in a flash
Ooooh look! Up to the minute updates on Tiger Woods not coming close to winning the Masters and Tim Tebow talking at a church!
I can see running off a mid 3-star kid in favor of a stud (Bond for birch, even though ti blew up in our face was worth the gamble at the time) but a running off high 3-stars for mid 4-star kids, just does not seem worth it to me. may become too detrimental to team chemistry at some point for it to be worth it.
Look at Bond’s game history this year. No production against the better schools, especially Kansas. And against Cincinnati, a good measure of what he’d see in the BE, he was invisible.
athleticism-bond
rebounding-push
offense-push
upside-bond
defense-bond
handling-bond
Next year could look better, but a leader and enforcer of the system must rise. Will this be Trey Zeigler and Patterson?
I agree with Tom – I think Chris Jones is here to stay. A late developer but he seems to have more upside than either J. Johnson or C. Wright at the moment.
If someone is going to transfer to make more room it will either be John Johnson who seems to be a bad fit (and writes bad tweets) or D. Johnson. But I’m not convinced I see either happening.
But this time last year many people on here were expecting a huge jump in Taylor’s development going from sophomore to junior ala McGee & Gray. That was when the question needed to be asked and answered.
Yes, the comparison was for perspective. I don’t think that Bond has necessarily shown a great upside. He didn’t play well against better talent and his minutes actually dropped for a while. Taylor’s true frosh numbers were 14 mins, 3.7 RB and 4.1 points — very similar to Bond’s in a tougher league. And we know how that turned out.
Dokish, I think, also suggested that Bond wanted out and had his own group of Birch-like advisers who wanted him to leave. If we can upgrade the 4, that would be great. But l don’t see what’s served by looking longingly at players who left the program.
Also, not sure why people are worried about Zieglers assist to turnover ratio. He’s not a point guard. His job is to score not pass. He is a really good get, Duke and UCLA both wanted him.
If Dixon is running off a current player I doubt it is Cam Wright. He started the last two games. Johnson didn’t. I’d rather have the bigger Cam Wright the next three years than Johnson. A player can learn to shoot better, but he can’t learn to be bigger.
You don’t offer Chris Jones a scholarship then take it back a month later. The guy is a winner and can fill the basket.
I’m hoping the departure of Epps and the signing of Zeigler are first steps in an overhaul.
I’m not saying that Khem Birch was not worth the risk … nor did that I state that Taylor should be booted … I merely stated that Bond would look pretty good at the 4 this coming season.
From everything that I can gather, it seems like Zeigler playing in the fall is a long shot. There is no direct precedent for the NCAA to grant this waiver (at least in hoops), and ruling in Zeigler’s favor could be viewed as setting a dangerous precedent for transfers when coaches are fired. I recognize the peculiar circumstances of this case, but there is almost nothing in the NCAA’s history to indicate a willingness to grant this waiver.
Regardless of when Zeigler is ruled eligible, he counts for a scholarship in 2012-13.
I’m glad to see them signing Ziegler. They despertally needed help at the 2 spot. I just hope that it doesn’t cost them in signing goodman.