There has been a lot of discussion about the quality of PITT’s QB play so far in spring ball and at this point it could help to fine tune the background info a bit. Paul Zeise of the Post-Gazette has this to say about our two leading QBs:
The quarterback competition has been tough to follow because neither Mark Myers or Tino Sunseri has really distinguished himself in such a way that there is no contest. I thought by now we would see this happen but it has not. Both have shown flashes but Myers inexperience is easy to see as his decision making is not where it is supposed to be and Sunseri’s physical limitations have been well documented over the past two years and they aren’t going to change. I do think this offense will protect the quarterbacks much better than the last offense – which exposed them – so if either player can develop consistency they should be able to have some success.
That may be a bit more negative than I am and there is a contest regardless of the respective quality, but his observations aren’t far off. I’m not giving up on anyone though, either Sunseri or Myers at this point…
Going back to last season some PITT fans stated that Myers was being “over-hyped” and had not fulfilled expectations; that is all on the fan’s shoulders IMO. His national QB rating by the three major scouting services was, off the top of my head, #11, #32 and #103. They were all over the map with him because he only started one year of HS ball and because scouts saw different strengths and weaknesses in his game.
If you look at what ESPN.com said of him you’ll understand more about what we now realize he was like coming out of HS…
ESPN.com (insider sub) wrote this:
Myers is tall, strong pro-style quarterback prospect who has some good physical tools to develop at the college level. The lefty is bit raw and may be a late bloomer on the recruiting trail. Has very good size for a pocket-passer and better than adequate arm-strength. Big, strong kid who …
Scout.com saw him a bit differently:
“Has good size and understanding of the game. Makes sound decisions and takes care of the football. Has good accuracy and hits his receivers in stride. Displays good touch and placement on his passes. Footwork and mechanics can be tweaked, which will help him generate more velocity. Has excellent poise and intangibles.”
ESPN.com was more accurate overall assessment IMO, but notice in each of them they don’t mention a “big arm” type descriptor. This is a key point as everyone assumed because of Myers’ size, 6’4” 220 coming out of HS, that he had a rifle for an arm. That just wasn’t so but every fan wants to see a cannon out there. The ‘strength” they are referring to is his ability to throw deep, which he can do very well, not his velocity.
Those needed improvement to his mechanics Scout.com stated hasn’t happened enough for him to get speed on his short or intermediate passes. His wind up and throwing motion isn’t compact and he throws with his arm instead of snapping the wrist to get the ‘zing’ needed on his shorter passes. For the deep ball that is OK and it serves Myers very well on those plays. At least that is what I saw happening and what I saw the QB coach keep reminding him of.
So when we first heard of Myers and then got ready to watch him in practice we expected an Elway/Bradshaw type arm and what we got is passing that isn’t as strong in velocity or as accurate as Tino Sunseri’s. Not too far away mind you, but Sunseri’s shorter passes are better.
I’m not saying this to criticize Mark Myers because he isn’t a bad QB at all, but to point out that the fan’s and media’s perception of him was overblown and, truth be told, wishful thinking on our part. He just isn’t what some dearly wanted him to be after the disappointment PITT fans felt when five star Pat Bostick didn’t live up to the projections.
Paul Ziese’s take on him today seems to differ pretty strongly with what Scout said about Myers’ understanding of the game and his decision making. However, here is where my own observations fall short. I have no detailed idea of how well Myers has command of the huddle, of the offensive players or how well he is at understanding and executing Chryst’s and Rudolph’s offensive plans.
To me he didn’t look confused out there. I saw some hesitation and forced passes but after only three weeks of actually taking snaps that doesn’t bother me too much. Perhaps Zeise had a conversation with a member of the staff or someone with inside knowledge to give substance to his thoughts about Myers. But IMO Myers could very well be progressing everyday and the staff might feel that by the end of summer camp that Myers has what it takes to be a starter or certainly a capable back-up.
With all of this we have to step back and remind ourselves that Mark Myers has only one year of playing college ball under his belt and zero playing experience in this type of offense in college. This season he’ll be a rsSO and right now he has three full seasons of eligibility left at PITT. A lot can happen between now and the end of training camp just as a lot can happen with him between now and the end of his time as a Panther. That scenario holds true for QBs especially; it isn’t unusual at all for a QB to flourish in his JR and SR years, as a matter of fact it’s the norm.
As far as Sunseri goes, it is also possible that he feels that much more comfortable with this offense to where he can execute the plays without the mistakes he made in those crucial times last year. Some of those were all him of course, but I also think that Graham’s insistence with the no-huddle, Chinese Fire Drill offense didn’t allow Sunseri the underlying confidence he needed in his second season.
I’ve always thought that it isn’t Sunseri’s physical talents that hold him back; he can run and pass well enough. He also understands the Xs and Os at this level. It is the area above his shoulders that has to be more calm and professional during the game. As above, QBs do go through natural progressions over the course of their careers and it wouldn’t be impossible for Sunseri to do the same. History is littered with college QBs who had very good SR years after a so-so start.
I know some other PITT fans will disagree with that and I’m not predicting that will happen. But I believe that if Sunseri is named the starter in training camp, which I think will be the case, then we’ll see better play out of him this season than we did last year. I doubt he’ll blossom into a star QB all of a sudden, he may not have that in him, but he certainly could become more stable and execute better than he did in 2012.
Which brings us to Chad Voytik, who seems to be the latest QB recruit PITT fans are hanging their hats on to be the guys who rides in and grabs a starting job. I suppose in reading the latest media reports about both Sunseri and Myers one could think that may happen but I highly doubt it. It is so rare for a true freshman to do that. I know it happens at other colleges sometimes but it is still akin to catching lightning in a bottle. I think it will take a truly superb show of talent combined with a firm grasp of the playbook before Chryst decides not to redshirt Voytik. I very much doubt Chryst will ‘roll the dice’ on a true freshman unless he himself believes we are in dire straits.
Should circumstances go into the crapper through injury or poor play Voytik is always still on the roster if needed. I don’t think we’ll see Voytik on the field until 2013 personally. The other QBs, Anderson and Gonzalez are third string at best. E. J. Banks has already been moved out of the competition and Gonzalez will follow suit very soon.
If this sounds pretty depressing I think we all have to remember what Paul Chryst said the other day; “It’s spring practice for a fall sport”. He hasn’t even begun to institute a game plan yet and a lot of the offensive woes to date have been because the OL is still trying to get their feet under them and there were a lot of dropped passes by the receivers also. As things start to jell with the rest of the offensive units, so will it with the QBs.
Chryst has done well taking QBs, some with average talents, and making serviceable and successful players out of them. Scott Tolzien, a two-star recruit ranked anywhere between 70th, 113th or N/R, was a highly successful QB at Wisconsin who had 5, 154 yards with 32 TDs and 17 INTs over his two years as a starter. Chryst knows how to get the most out of his QBs and one should factor that in when thinking about our QB situation.
If the offense looks the way it does now in the first week of the season then I’ll really worry. Right now it is just like any other spring practice with lots of bumbles and mistakes on everyone’s part. If Chryst is as good at adapting to personnel strengths and weaknesses as he is advertised to be then those things won’t necessarily be happening in September.
Still, let’s still hope that Graham gets and stays healthy all year.
love the 60 or 80 yard passes for TDs at least myers is getting a chance this year.
For all those reasons I believe the QB cannot be Tino. I’d rather use the first 2 games as a learning curve for Myers and see what happens. I know what I have in Tino which is not much.
Congrats to the basketball team on CBI championship!
Last year maybe so for Myers but all reports are that he’s rededicated his efforts for this competition.
I think everyone is in a wait and see mode after coming off the tumult of the last two years. This staff isn’t going jump and declare anyone the starting QB without really exploring all the options, unlike Graham last season. Even though Sunseri is getting probably 60% of the 1st team snaps Myers is getting a lot of work also with both the 1s and the 2s.
I still like the idea of platooning the QBs if they are equal in talent. If you bring Myers in once every three games or something the opponent will probably know what’s up. But if he gets three or so series a game then 1) he gets better by experience and 2) we have a deep threat.
Another thing is that the rest of the offense may be pretty damn good and that should help the passing game a bit too. I’ve a feeling our OL is going to surprise people when they get the five they want, w/ Jacobson in there, and start really practicing as a unit. If the QBs can get their three, five, seven step drop and a decent amount of time we’ll see some results.
Plus, I think we’ll see some new WRs rise up this year to impress and produce. It won’t be just Shanahan and Street this year. Saddler will get the ball more than last season. It seemed like in practice every third pass went to him, he was getting that open. Felder, Tinker, Salath Williams (who is doing very well in camp), Justin Jackson, etc will all see time.
It looks like Chryst and Rudolph are going to platoon WRs & TEs in different packages sometimes so we’ll see a lot of different players touching the ball. We will definitely have more speed in the WR corps than we did last year… which is why we have to get Myers involved in the offense IMO. We have to let him launch the ball sometimes and have these fast WRs run under it. He’s been very good at throwing to a spot and letting the WRs get to it.
Note: I didn’t realize how long this article was until I posted it – thanks for reading it all the way through.
Really hoping for Myers to step up. I too hate the lack of a real passing game and 8 or nine in the box.
Which begs the question none has yet to ask him, how do we stack up to last year’s Badgers?
There is no doubt, as Reed pointed out, that our current QB has his limitations … but I’m a firm believer that if a QB (any QB) is dropping back to pass and not have to worry about being pressured every play, his decision-making would stand to improve.
On the other hand, if Myers wins the starting job … great, as he and would also benefit by the pro style offense
Please advise.
I would like one of the interviewers to ask the staff if platooning would even be considered. At the very least I think we need Chryst and Rudolph to not be rigid in sticking with a QB when he’s detrimental to the offense, even if it’s only sitting the guy down for a series or a game.
before he throws it in spring pratice
wait till he sees him in a real game when tino losees his mind and holds it then runs out of bonds for a lose.
than the HC will really go nuts .
you cant change tino he chokes when the game starts
No excuses…..Chryst can not afford to allow a lax atmosphere when it comes to personal conduct.
This action is a source of reassurance it proves the universe is not chaotic and universal laws do apply, such as Graham has never been and will not be a successful coach and that man always have to be on guard against those selling quick can’t miss solutions to life.
Here is some info From the PITT Spring Insider website about others in attendance for Saturday’s practice and Junior Day.
“Blue & Gold Alumni: A large contingent of former Pitt players was on hand today. Attending alumni included Nick Bolkovac, Dave Bucklew, Walt Bielich, Mike Bosnic, Emil Boures, Dean Caliguire, Lou “Bimbo” Cecconi, Lou Cimarolli, Andrew Devlin, Nick DeRosa, Tyrone Gilliard, Dave Havern, Buddy Jackson, Ralph Jelic, Matt Maiers, Rudy Mattioli, Pete Neft, Tom Ricketts, Ray Tarasi and Greg Williams.
Eager to Arrive: Four members of Pitt’s incoming freshman class returned to watch spring practice on Saturday: Adam Bisnowaty (Fox Chapel), J.P. Holtz (Shaler Area) and twins Chris and Demitrious Davis (Ohio’s Austintown Fitch).
Coaching Fraternity: Former Pitt head coach Walt Harris visited practice on Saturday. Harris led a resurgent period for Pitt football from 1997-2004, taking the Panthers to six bowls in eight seasons.
Additionally, former Pitt assistants David Walker (now of the Indianapolis Colts) and Tony Wise visited the Panthers’ scrimmage.
WPIAL Flavor: High school head coaches in attendance included Clair Altemus (Pine-Richland), Mike Bosnic (Washington), Muzzy Colosimo (Greensburg Central Catholic), Dave Havern (Shady Side Academy), Aaron Krepps (Belle Vernon), Ed Jenkins (Charleroi), Dom Pecora (Southmoreland), Rod Steele (Steel Valley) and Jim Ward (McKeesport).
Next Up: Pitt will hold its 11th spring practice on Tuesday, April 3, at the UPMC Sports Performance Complex.
So let’s see, reps from the Harris Era, Wannstedt era and Chryst Era… no Graham people.
On the qb topic. I have no doubt that tino will be more successful this year. He will be more effective and effecient if he wins the job. The only problem is, under pressure, tino folds like a napkin. I can excuse mediocre stats for a qb if, when its crunch time, he steps up and makes plays. Tino doesnt. Ive said all along that the best case scenario is that mark meyers wins the job. It seems like meyers and tino are about even right now, so well see what happens.
Tino led the first team offense in 11 periods against the first team defense. Mark Myers
led the second team offense against the second team defense in five periods. Tray
Anderson led 4 periods and there were 2 special teams periods.
The practice ended with Sunseri throwing a 20-yard touchdown to Cam Saddler down
the left sideline. Saddler was reamed out by Chryst though, for celebrating too much
afterwards.
“I wanted to catch more balls today,” Saddler said. “We just need more practice. Maybe
it’s a timing thing.”
There were lowlights in the day as well. Some series stalled in the red zone, several
offensive series were stuffed completely, and the quarterbacks overthrew some open wide
receivers. Myers did not look sharp the entire scrimmage.
BTW: Panther 24/7 is a new PITT message board that is starting to gain momentum. We are working very hard to keep all the crap in-fighting and insults off of it and so far the football discussions have been good. We need all the posters we can get as an alternative to the other free boards.
Please check it out – some names will be familiar.
At 26 years of age, Tino is a man among boys this coming season. That could easily be viewed as a plus for him as our starter but the flip side of that is that I think after two years of being the starting QB, that he has shown his hand regarding his upside potential. Unless he figures out how to throw an accurate deep ball in the next 5 months I think that his die has pretty much been cast. Not that he will not show improvement this coming season but how much more can anyone in the know expect from him regarding stepping up his game. Not much IMO.
Now WBB interjects the comparision of Sunseri’s situation to Stull’s going into his senior year but such a comparision is impossible to be conducted fairly since the circumstances surrounding each individual’s particulars are so varied that it is nonsense to attempt. What is a fact however is that Bill Stull stepped up his game during his senior year and put together a pretty good season. If Sunseri could do as well then more power to him, time will tell.
More important to consider however is to compare Sunseri not to past QBs but to future Pitt QBs. We KNOW what we have with Tino, and that is an average Div1 college QB at best. What we don’t know is the unrealized potential of the other QBs waiting in the wings. One of them, Voytik, not even on campus yet.
So the real issue should be do we look towards the future with an untested raw QB and take your lumps during the “trial by fire” learning process or do you go with the experienced, known entity and go with the “bird in the hand” option for one final year, because Sunseri “gives us the best chance to win”.
Myself, as a fan, have seen enough frustration yelling at the TV to “throw the ball” or stressing myself out while waiting for one of Tinos’s 40 yd dying quail throws to flutter downfield waiting to see which defender picks off another interception to want to cast my vote in for some new blood for QB for this season.
Now on to Carl Fleming. We have to remember that you are innocent until proven guilty in our legal system,,,,, BUT, Fleming has positioned himself, due to his arrest, as the prime subject of interest on how our new HC is going to deal with the discipline issue for those players who have been ARRESTED. Carl, this is not a good place to be IMO. Good luck to you, hope you aren’t going to serve as an example for the rest of the team but as Forest Gump always says “stupid is as stupid does”
I forgot the cardinal rule of of evaluating high school players they recieve little if any quality coaching in high school. Stars beside their name only indicate their physical prowess compared to their peers.
Bobby Knight,one of the best basketball minds, said it best “I can’t believe how little these kids know about basketball when they get to college.”
This came to a head in the opener when despite Pitt beating YSU 38-3, Stull was widely booed and cries for Tino to play was heard loud and often.
There is no doubt that Tino has suffered from the ‘deer in the headlight’ syndrome, something we initally found out 2 years ago vs Miami. My point is just because the majority of this site advocates a cause doesn’t mean it is the correct thing to do. The coaches are paid well to evaluate players and it is to their advantage (much more than to ours) that their players produce results and win … and I believe the QB with the best chance of producing will play … despite what many here believe.
“Now WBB interjects the comparision of Sunseri’s situation to Stull’s going into his senior year but such a comparision is impossible to be conducted fairly since the circumstances surrounding each individual’s particulars are so varied that it is nonsense to attempt. What is a fact however is that Bill Stull stepped up his game during his senior year and put together a pretty good season. If Sunseri could do as well then more power to him, time will tell.”
Good points all around.
Although I don’t hold with the current view of Bill Stull wherein he magically progressed from his JR to his SR year or that Cignetti had this night and day influence on his game.
Stull’s stats were better his SR season of course but about a year ago I took a hard look at what the circumstances were for him under Cavanaugh as his OC and playing alongside McCoy in 2008 (JR) and then under Cignetti with Dion Lewis (SR) in 2009. Some interesting stuff showed up.
In 2008 Wannstedt and Cavanaugh were so dependent on LeSean McCoy that once inside our opponent’s 30 yard line they ran McCoy almost 80% of the time. Granted that wasn’t a bad thing to do because McCoy scored TDs. But what it did do was to take the ball out of Stull’s hands down where most TD passes are thrown thus dampening his chance at more TD passes and he finished with eight.
In 2009, without McCoy and with Cignetti as OC, we had about a 50/50 run:pass ratio inside the opponent’s 30 yard line. There was no heavy dependency on Lewis, even after it was evident that he was a superstar, like there was on McCoy the year before. That opened up the playbook for Bill Stull to throw his 21 TDs.
My point being that as circumstances change so does QB play. Even though Stull ran the same type of Pro-Set offense the decisions of the different OC and his red-zone philosophy allowed the big jump in TD production.
Sure Stull grew and progressed from his JR to his SR, almost all QBs do. But what really benefited Stull were the different circumstances he had his SR year.
What could benefit Sunseri most is the same kind of a change in approach in how he is asked to execute plays out on the field. Those are the ‘varied circumstances’ you mention.
I just feel that Sunseri’s upside potential is limited at this juncture in his career and that I’d rather gamble on on the unknown QB potential of the guys that remain untested rather than attempting to squeeze out additional positive improvement in our veteran QB. Just my opinion but at this point I’d rather play the future QB and bet on “the two birds in the bush”.
Sooner or later Chryst and Rudolph have to make a decision on who is going to be the starting QB, run the offense and get the rest of the offense aligned behind him. That will happen either coming out of spring practices or in the first week of the training camp.
In my opinion Chryst just isn’t going to rob Peter to pay Paul in selecting a QB who may turn out to be successful in the future when the onus is on winning this season.
I don’t think that Myers is convincing anyone that he’s the QB of the future at this point. Unless Voytik comes in like gangbusters the point will be moot by the last week in Agust.
There are a lot of unknowns about the QB situation as a whole and with every candidate. We’ll see what shakes out but I’m thinking this staff has the confidence that they can design an offense to adapt to Sunseri’s talents and weaknesses.
I’ll be very surprised if he’s not the starter come Sept 1st.
Sunseri practices (and interviews) well. I just don’t see Sunseri morphing into the QB that this team needs to take it to the next level, no matter what offensive system that we’re running, no matter how the offensive line looks comes together, no matter how much he gets coached up. Tino is just not the guy.
I would love to have everybody on this board remind me of this opinion come Jan 2013 after Tino brings home a BCS bowl victory and a top ten ranking to carry into the ACC. NOTHING would make me happier that to be dead wrong on this, but I just don’t see it.
I remember the game against Utah when Tino pointed to himself in overtime, implying for Wanny to “put it on me, Coach”! I mentioned to my buddy who was watching the game with me that that moment would become a defining point in our young QBs career from that point forward. Tino rolls right, forces a poor throw into coverage and comes up with a key interception in overtime that ended up losing the game for Pitt.
That is the Tino Sunseri that we have to work with. If he is our best option to win this season, then so be it but unfortunately this is not the QB that is going to tranform Pitt into a contender. He is not even a just above average QB let alone a Tylor Palko or Bill Stull. Both were OK QBs with the mental attitude to perform beyond their abilities. They both brought home some significant wins for Pitt.
Sunseri has NEVER done so. Remind me of one instance where he rallied the team for a come from behind victory or closed out a close back and forth game with a victory. Tino never has because he just can’t bear the weight of the team on his back. Nothing against him as a person or a football player, it is just that he doesn’t perform well under pressure. In tight games we are going to come up short most of the time with Sunseri at the helm.
I’d rather look towards the future and use this as a throw away season to get enperience for the guy who is going to inherit the QB position in 2013. Get that guy playing time now and look forward to the move to the ACC with a QB that has a year of game experience under his belt. Just one guy’s opinion, I hope I’m dead wrong on this but I don’t think so from what I’ve seen of Tino in his career up to this point.
That’s the image that came to mind as once again, for the 3rd year, we hear talk from Oakland about how well Tino Sunseri performs in practice — PRACTICE — and thus deserves to start.
And if that holds, for the 3rd straight year we’re about to see how poorly that predicts the Anti-Tebow’s [urine]-poor performance when it counts in the 4th Qtr, how poorly that translates into games.
Allen Iverson was dead-right: WHO CARES ABOUT PRACTICE?? Give us a QB who can perform when the game’s on the line. Since we know Know KNOW painfully well that isn’t Tino, let’s try somebody / anybody else.
ABT,
HTP
