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March 5, 2012

Temple, Big East and ACC

Filed under: ACC,Basketball,Big East,Conference — Chas @ 2:35 pm

In addition to the search for a car — now approaching a conclusion — I spent the weekend wondering what my doctor wanted. Got sick a couple weeks ago, and in addition to the medicine, I had to get some bloodwork done. Procrastinated on the blood work for a week. And then missed a couple calls from my doctor near the end of the week. By the time I called the office was closed and I got to stew over why they were calling me for the weekend. Cancer, rare disorder. Something horrible.

Turns out I have a Vitamin D deficiency. Have to take a prescription vitamin for a while. Seems generally stupid until I googled it, and holy shit, rickets! Getting old sucks. Don’t let anyone tell you differently.

Moving on to other things. Which comes first, the Big East invites Temple, Temple’s board authorizes Temple to accept an invite, or Temple reaches a settlement with the MAC to move to the Big East this year? Given how ass-backward the Big East portion of expansiopocolypse has been, my money is on settling with the MAC first.

If there was any doubt that taking Temple now is done for saving the Big East money vs. what it would cost to get Boise out of the MWC a year early. This should clinch it:

The Owls will have to pay exit fees. Sources have said it would cost them $3.5 million to leave the MAC immediately, and $2 million to get out of the A-10. Less if they move later. But this stuff can be negotiated.

Boise would have cost at least $10 million more — and Temple could possibly settle at lower. I’m sure Temple has a tight budget, but that is chump change simply based on the TV deal of the Big East (even just for football) vs. the MAC.

Tomorrow is almost certainly Pitt’s second-last Big East Tournament. But there are plenty of reasons to think that it won’t be Pitt’s last conference tournament at MSG. Lost Lettermen lay out the logic as to why the ACC wasn’t just trolling the Big East back in September about holding the ACC Tournament in NYC.

You can guarantee that Syracuse and Pitt would rather continue playing in Madison Square Garden instead of Greensboro, NC, Charlotte or Atlanta, so let’s get that out of the way. My guess is that Mike Krzyzewski would sign on as well, as he routinely plays games in the New York City area for exposure and recruiting purposes like his record-setting 903rd victory in November.

That’s three power schools on board.

I’d also guess that Maryland and Boston College would prefer to stay up North instead of making the trek South and always playing the conference tournament in the backyard of Duke and UNC.

You can probably count out North Carolina, NC State and Wake Forest from supporting the move since all three are used to staying in-state for the ACC tourney and getting plenty of fan support.

That leaves the X-Factors as Florida State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Miami (FL), Georgia Tech and Clemson.

While they are all geographically closer to North Carolina than New York, I think it’s safe to assume three of those schools would trade Greensboro or Charlotte for Madison Square Garden in a heartbeat.

It really wouldn’t be a hard sell for most of the other schools. Every conference has that suspicion that certain schools get extra advantages from the conference powers — in no small part because of where the conference offices are. Many ACC schools would be happy to have the North Carolina schools lose some of the seeming control.

Just when I think I can let some of the bullcrap of the Big East past missteps go, someone like Mike Tranghese has to try and reinvent his history to say how he saw so much of this coming and, and — well here:

Tranghese was hired to follow Gavitt in 1990. In 1991, the Big East began playing football. The league had no choice. It had to look at football or break up.

The conference presidents commissioned a study to determine whether the Big East should stay intact or disband. The turmoil in the college football establishment was cresting — you were in or you were out. The Big East had taken in Miami to get the big-name football program it desperately needed. Now there was pressure to take on more football-playing universities: Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech.

The study recommend that the Big East stay together. Tranghese had misgivings even then. “I don’t think they envisioned any idea of all this jumping around taking place,” he said.

“I thought at that point, our league should have given very serious consideration to separating,” Tranghese said. “From where I was sitting, the difficulty of keeping everything together — some people playing football, some people not playing football — was a challenge.”

The Big East added Rutgers and West Virginia in 1995, Virginia Tech in 2000.

Temple doesn’t even get mentioned. Part of this goes to the dearth of leadership by the football schools. Pitt was a mess and in the midst of the O’Connor incompetence/malaise. I suppose there could have been a good case that neither side really would have been that good in the 90s for basketball. For the Big East Football Schools — whatever they would have been called — it would have been Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, VT, Miami, Rutgers, Temple and BC. I mean it essentially would have been Cuse and Temple running the basketball side.

That’s a digression, because Tranghese is so full of shit about his feelings of splitting the conference. Perhaps he thought it might make sense (or more likely, tells himself and everyone else that he saw the logic back then), but there is no way he said crap about it. Let alone take the lead on the issue. It would have weakened his power with a diminished conference — because I’m assuming he would have stayed with the basketball side back then. It also would have weakened Providence — which Tranghese and the Big East offices would never let happen.

He also prattles on claiming that he was pushing for Penn State membership back in 1989 — but of course the basketball schools blocked it. Even using the same words — “rue the day” — that he has used in other interviews when speaking of failed chances to bring Penn State into the Big East in 1979 and 1982 as well.





I can see a compromise where the ACC will move its championship from Charlotte to DC but the conference is too ‘South heavy’ to go further north … and as long as St John’s, UConn and the jersey schools (Rutgers, S Hall) are in the BE, MSG will be the preferred site.

Comment by wbb 03.05.12 @ 2:54 pm

I can see DC but no way MSG ever holds the ACC championship unless another 2 ‘northern’ schools get added.

Comment by TX Panther 03.05.12 @ 2:59 pm

I can see them maybe holding a first and second round in NC and the championship itself in MSG?

That gives the NC schools two thing–games in their backyard and national exposure (more than they have now) in MSG.

My friends have already come up with the slogan/storyline for when Pitt moves to the ACC, “A Panther prowls Tobacco Road.” Basically, they see the first year story for ESPN as “Can Pitt knock off Duke/UNC as top dogs on the BBall side.”

My personally guess would be no, not the first year. Maybe not the second year, BUT we will see Pitt finish in the top 3 of the conference.

Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part ;)

Comment by Lou Gagliardi 03.05.12 @ 3:20 pm

Chas – I once had some blood work done and got phone calls at Home (I was travelling out of town)at work and at my wife’s office. Thought I was dying of cancer. Turned out to be Limes disease from getting bitten by a tick on the golf course.
Scared me to death!!

Comment by Dan 72 03.05.12 @ 3:38 pm

IMHO, I can see MSG routinely taking a turn in some sort of rotation.

I believe the gentlemen was spot on. WF, FSU, GTU and the Virginia schools I would imagine could care less about going to NC.

Actually, would probably love coming to NYC once every few years. The fans too. The coaches especially.

The league also, especially to cement it as “Thee” Eastern conference.

As far as MSG goes, powerful ACC tournament, or a dilapidated, diluted BE, no question they would be happy to host, and the BE would go to the new arena in Brooklyn.

Yes, maybe the 3 Carolina schools won’t like it, but I def. see the ACC at MSG in the rotation.

IMHO.

Comment by Dan 03.05.12 @ 4:21 pm

Obviously, WF in first line a mis-type. Substitue Clemson. WF would be one of the Carolina schools.

Can’t you see it, ACC in NYC!!! It would be huge. Hell, I can see ESPN practically demanding it.

Sad to say, the famous BE saturday night in NYC will not have the same luster, once Syracuse, Pitt and WVU are no longer a part of it.

MSG will want the “Big Show”. So will ESPN.

Comment by Dan 03.05.12 @ 4:24 pm

Sorry to do this, I seem to only have a few moments lately, so I bunch them together.

The more I think about it, whether the rotation is once every 3 or 4 years, I’m not so sure the Carolina schools would abject. I think all the coaches in college, and a lot of the players also, know MSG as the “Mecca” of college basketball.

The excitement for them, the fans, the recruiting, ya, I would almost consider this a no brainer with almost everyone on board.

Some die hard Southerners may not like it, and the city of Greensboro, and the Greensbor Coliseum won’t like it, but, I would bet some chocolate chip cookies, it will have a regular spot.

Good night to all, SPRING BALL is coming!!!!!

Comment by Dan 03.05.12 @ 4:31 pm

Off topic, but this is from MSNBC:

These are America’s most miserable states.

1. West Virginia

•Well-being index score: 62.3
•Life expectancy: 75.2 (2nd lowest)
•Obesity: 32.5 percent (2nd highest)
•Median household income: $38,218 (2nd lowest)
•Adult population with high school diploma or higher: 83.2 percent (8th lowest)
West Virginia residents feel the most miserable in the country. It appears that they have many reasons to feel this way. The state is particularly poor. It has the second-lowest median household income in the country at $38,218, and the sixth-highest rate of poverty. Residents also face a number of health issues. More than one in 10 West Virginians have had a heart attack or suffer from coronary artery disease — the highest rate in the country. The state has the third-highest rates of cancer and diabetes. It also has the highest rate of smokers, with 26.8 percent of adults indulging in the habit. It has the second-highest rate of obesity. These problems affect life expectancy, which at 75.2 years in West Virginia is the lowest in the country.
——————————–
FWIW, PA is not listed in Top 10

Comment by wbb 03.05.12 @ 4:46 pm

IMHO, The ACC Tournament will stay in Charloette for the foreseeable future. The folks in Tobacco Road will not cow down to the northern folks because it’s about $$ staying in Tobacco Road territory. The ACC tournament was played once in Atlanta and the powers that be put a halt to a traveling tournament and settled on Charloette.

Living in Atlanta, I’d like to see the ACC tournament played in Atlanta but that won’t happen. Yuns ‘burgher’s will just have to get used to southern hospitality.

Comment by MariettaMike 03.05.12 @ 4:49 pm

Comment by wbb 03.05.12 @ 4:53 pm

Would love to see the ACC tournament move to DC, would be a logical location given the geography of the new ACC.

Comment by CJK 03.05.12 @ 5:09 pm

@MariettaMike, your opinion is well respected.

I would like to say for the record, I really don’t have a wish where it is played. Total honesty!!

Just happy to be part of the ACC!!!!

Comment by Dan 03.05.12 @ 5:51 pm

Dude, drink a gallon of milk while standing out in your driveway on a sunny day, fer chrissakes.

Comment by Lee in Altoona 03.05.12 @ 5:51 pm

The refusal to accept Penn State by the basketball schools is an indication, that at least early on, that the Big East had no intention of having football and all sports conference. Anyone with vision would have brought in Penn State along with Pitt. Penn State, like it or not, was the standard bearer for eastern football.

Comment by Justinian 03.05.12 @ 6:39 pm

Off topic, but this is from MSNBC:

These are America’s most miserable states.

1. West Virginia

•Well-being index score: 62.3
•Life expectancy: 75.2 (2nd lowest)
•Obesity: 32.5 percent (2nd highest)
•Median household income: $38,218 (2nd lowest)
•Adult population with high school diploma or higher: 83.2 percent (8th lowest)
West Virginia residents feel the most miserable in the country. It appears that they have many reasons to feel this way. The state is particularly poor. It has the second-lowest median household income in the country at $38,218, and the sixth-highest rate of poverty. Residents also face a number of health issues. More than one in 10 West Virginians have had a heart attack or suffer from coronary artery disease — the highest rate in the country. The state has the third-highest rates of cancer and diabetes. It also has the highest rate of smokers, with 26.8 percent of adults indulging in the habit. It has the second-highest rate of obesity. These problems affect life expectancy, which at 75.2 years in West Virginia is the lowest in the country.
——————————–
FWIW, PA is not listed in Top 10

Yet somehow WVU manages to kick Pitt’s ass….maybe cause they are so pissed off huh?

Comment by A-Wild 03.05.12 @ 6:40 pm

Who thinks that in 5 years this whole situation will have changed again? As a loyal Mountaineer, I’m happy to be in the Big 12 but unless they add schools to the east I don’t think this is a viable option long term.
I can’t help but think there will be an “eastern” re-emerge some time down the road.

Comment by A-Wild 03.05.12 @ 6:45 pm

Greensboro sucks.

Comment by Chris 03.05.12 @ 8:03 pm

drink milk

Comment by FRANKCAN 03.05.12 @ 8:11 pm

Chas, I had the vit D defiency too. Now you have an excuse for enjoying a sunny day on your deck instead if working inside the house- your health depends on it!

Comment by Annie 03.05.12 @ 9:49 pm

you guys are nuts, we haven’t even gotten to the acc yet and you are all putting your 2 cents into were we should move. how about we be gracious new members and enjoy the way things are before making suggestions. i love pitt but we are not some great product that is going to make the acc powers that be change tradition.

Comment by HeelHater 03.05.12 @ 10:54 pm

Chas-your vitamin D deficiency is quite apt and ironic for the season of this team. Don’t worry, lots of people lack the vitamin D. Get yours back up brother and let’s enjoy the 2012 BE Tourney and Pitt’s rise to dominance again. H2P

Comment by Gordo 03.06.12 @ 12:21 am

Not to get off topic, but how in the hell was Kevin Jones not a unanimous Big East first-team selection and the POY. That makes me believe that no matter what, a Pitt player will not win the award next year. This politicking is getting rediculous.

Comment by Pitt Rob 03.06.12 @ 1:21 am

With Pitt and Cuse, there are another two votes against Tobacco Road. That’s what the Heels and Dookies fear. The ACC becoming a football conference first. Bring in another two schools most likely north of the Mason Dixon and then the Carolina schools don’t have the votes. MSG could be an option on a rotating schedule. MSG, DC, Raleigh or Charlotte, Atlanta.

That’s what being a vampire gets ya Chas.

Comment by TX Panther 03.06.12 @ 6:38 am

In ACC basketball, North Carolina and Duke will always be the kings. That being said, by joining the ACC Pitt and Syracuse get a more stable conference and more money. They bring with them strong basketball programs which unlike the other big conferences, seems to matter to the the ACC. For long time viability, it should be good for all parties involved. None the less, I will miss Big East Basketball.

Comment by Justinian 03.06.12 @ 9:36 am

A repeat performance – different t-shirt…

link to college-football.si.com

Comment by markp 03.06.12 @ 9:44 am

Gents,

Marietta Mike, not to nitpick, but i think the ACC Tourney is split between Greensboro and Charlotte. I was actually at one in Greensboro in the mid-late 90’s to watch UNC with Jamison, Carter, etc against Duke with Brand and Langdon. Great games.

I think we are all missing the point. The change in conferences was all precipitated by $$. By moving the conf tourney to NYC once every few years, I’m sure ESPN can move more $$ into the pockets of each school. Duke and UNC may have power to dictate some policy in the conference, but neither is swingin a big enough d-ck to tell ESPN what to do. They also are “National Recruiters”. They dont rely on in-state talent, and therefore playing in front of MSG vs. Greensboro/Charlotte Coliseum would not be that big of a deal. It’s another chance for them to put their kids on the brightest stage possible, which will do nothing but help recruiting.

Comment by Big Bill 03.06.12 @ 10:08 am

Let’s look at the tournaments geographically. The tournaments should be in a major city near the middle of the conference. Since the ACC will stretch from Boston to Miami with the western most schools being Pitt and Syracuse, it would seem that MSG in New York would make sense as a location.
Since the new Big East will stretch from Providence to San Diego why not put their tournament in Chicago or Houston?

Comment by Houston Panther 03.06.12 @ 10:21 am

Maybe I am missing something here but why would ESPN care where the tourney is played? I don’t see how the location leads to greater ratings or TV revenues via sponsors.

Comment by Yeti 03.06.12 @ 11:24 am

Do we have a game today??? Who’s ready???

Comment by alcofan 03.06.12 @ 11:33 am

@Heelhater, calm down brother. It’s just people b.s.’ing about future hoops.

I personally said I don’t care where the tourney is, just happy to be going to the ACC.

As far as I can tell, everyone else just b.s.’ing too, about possibilities. No one demanding anything.

Take a deep breath bro, it’s a blog, that’s what blog’s are, Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Dan 03.06.12 @ 12:34 pm

You think these posts are nuts, wait till the middle of June when nothing’s going on…..

I’ll be posting about rumors of USC and UCLA coming to the ACC, and

FRANK will be asking Chas if he’s heard anything on JOHN DOE LB’s off season right pinky operation and whether they used a c splint or a b splingt!!

Right Frank???? Ha ha ha!!!!!!!

Comment by Dan 03.06.12 @ 12:44 pm

How is MSG the geographic center of the new ACC? There are only 2 ACC teams located north of it (Cuse and BC) and 12 to the south. In fact, even in DC, there are only 4 ACC teams located north of DC and 10 to the south … and Maryland is only a few mies away.

The fact is that BC is equidistant away from Charlotte as Miami is from DC (870 miles).

MSG may look attractive to us but not sure how it plays in Raleigh, Death Valley, Atlanta, Tallahassee and Miami.

Comment by wbb 03.06.12 @ 1:10 pm

Not sure if anyone’s aware of this, but the ACC tourney is in Atlanta this year. So it’s not locked down to North Carolina.

Comment by Pitt Rob 03.06.12 @ 1:25 pm

ACC Tourney is locked into Greensboro thru 2016 after this year..This year it’s Atlanta…they did have it once in DC (2005) and I think Tampa another year…
I wish somehow the ACC would end up in MSG but afraid that is not going to happen now that the Big East is still going to be decent in BB.
Not sure it is going to be worth the time to travel to Greensboro to see Pitt like it is now going to NYC.
Why not have the ACC tourney in Pittsburgh in the new Consol Center?

Comment by milobloom 03.06.12 @ 2:10 pm

@Dan, I concur. The ACC is a very stable conference. I contend that Temple should not have been tossed out of the Big East in the first place.

I stand corrected on Charlotte being the home of the ACC Tournament. This year the ACC comes to Atlanta then moves to Greensboro. Perhaps MSG or Pittsburgh can be a stop on the circuit in the future. If UCONN and Rutgers join the ACC, MSG looks even better for the ACC tourney.

Go Pitt beat Georgetown! HTP!

Comment by MariettaMIke 03.07.12 @ 7:04 am

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