January 28, 2012

LiveBlog: Georgetown-Pitt

Filed under: Basketball,liveblog — Chas @ 2:45 pm

Sorry about the lateness of getting this out. Guests coming this evening so a frenzied day of cleaning. I’m already catching plenty of grief for taking 2+ hours out to watch the game at 4pm on ESPN. But, really, the wife should be used to it.

Georgetown has been a bit of surprise team this year. Not too much was expected from the Hoyas except middle of the pack, bubble team. Lots of youth and John Thompson III has not had his young players do too much in the past. This year, is different. Lots of early contributions and the Hoyas are in the upper quadrant of the Big East.

Tray Woodall being back has the offense looking a lot sharper. The defense still leaves a lot to be desired. Probably going to have to live with that, this late in the season.

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that is were they used to work pk lets recruit a whole class of no stars then . dont be sily pk
you have to have some kind of gage in every thing or perhaps ypu want some one with a high school eduction to run pitt. some times i think you just like to argue abought any thing that you can.

Comment by FRANKCAN 01.29.12 @ 3:38 pm

There is an interesting article in latest ESPN magazine that cites several studies that there is a very low correlation between schools’ football recruit ratings/rankings and how well those teams do subsequently. The more important thing is how well the coaches do with the talent they selected. All this angst about the ratings of our recruits seems like a lot of wasted energy. Based on Chryst’s past history, it seems he can develop those people that he chooses to coach. How about we wait until fall before we start to worry?

Comment by John In South Carolina 01.29.12 @ 4:08 pm

Steve Adams had 12 and 14, took only 8 shots, as ND Prep had little problem in winning the exhibition game at Ambridge HS.

in the 1st game, Shaler beat Lincoln School 57-52, led by JP Holtz’s 14 pts

Comment by wbb 01.29.12 @ 4:19 pm

Iwas just looking at the rateings of the ohio state recruits and so cal and oaklahoma and texas
you tell me if you think they will be haveing bad years there has to be a gage for every thing
can you find a nr that will be grest sure but what would you like on pitt 8 players who are 5 stars and 4 who are 4 stars or 12 players who are 2 stars if you tell me 2 stars you are nuts .

Comment by FRANKCAN 01.29.12 @ 4:22 pm

Frank, obviously im going to want the class with the five stars BUT if you look, texas has had top five classes every uear and they havnt won more than 7 reg season games in the past two years, oklahoma is always falling short of expectations too. Same with florida state and florida in the past few years. For every team with great recruiting class rankings that succeeds, theres a team without highly rated classes that succeeds as well. Im not saying that four star recruits arent great to have. They are. All im saying is you font need them to succeed. The star system is a very rough guide given by someone who isnt necessarily a good judge of talent that in no way garauntees success by the individual or his team on the field.

Comment by Pk 01.29.12 @ 4:35 pm

Google chris wuestner. Watch the youtube video. Hes clearly no stars because scouts havnt seen him. He Makes acrobatic catches, has solid speed, can make people miss, and blocks well. He looks like a slightly smaller and less akward mike shanahan if i had to compare him to a current pitt player,

Comment by Pk 01.29.12 @ 4:50 pm

Quote from espn regarding chris wuestner in his senior year. “You could make a case that wuestner was the most productive wideout in pennsylvania this season. In five games, his lowest recieving output was 98 yards.”

They said he is “under the radar”

Comment by Pk 01.29.12 @ 4:56 pm

Wuestner way under the radar….out most of his Junior year because of an injury.


Comment by isnore 01.29.12 @ 5:02 pm

Good college coaches can spot a sleeper. Sometimes when a player is on an average or poor team they can fly under the radar. When Jackie Sherrill was at Pitt, they first noticed Hugh Green, when they were watching Rooster Jones. They ended up recruiting both players, but it was Hugh Green that went on to become the All-American. Often you can be a star on a high school championship team and not have the tools to play at a big time Division I program. I would think Paul Chryst and Bob Bostad know talent when they see it.

Comment by Justinian 01.29.12 @ 5:18 pm

A point that Chris Dokish made on Panther’s Prey was that the offensive linemen recruited at Wisconsin had fewer stars on their recruiting profiles than the Pitt lineman had. So they either were better at recognising talent, or at developing it. If I’m not mistaken Wisconsin offensive line did pretty well.

Comment by Justinian 01.29.12 @ 5:25 pm

Good point pk. I think we’d all take a team that has 4’s and 5’s. You mention several teams, and there are many more, that end up being mediocre at best however.

Is this a defensive mechanism kicking in, maybe a bit, but, with Chryst’s track record with 3’s and a few 4’s, I would definitely take that.

Remember, if he wins games, goes to a big bowl and becomes top 20 relevant, i.e. maybe a Pitt-Fla.St game, or a Pitt-Va. Tech game has a little national relevance, we will be getting the bigger star players.

I feel the best about Pitt football than I have in years. Could I (we) get burned again, sure, but I doubt it with this guy.

Also, we’re a resilient bunch, whatever happens, we’ll be here.

I have to say, I’m pretty pumped up right now.

Comment by Dan 01.29.12 @ 5:37 pm

FRANCKCAN, LOI day is Wednesday!!! It’s like a holiday, except, I don’t get off work!!

Comment by Dan 01.29.12 @ 5:38 pm

Jimbo Covert’s My Dad, I’ve felt that way since seeing the Marquette and Cuse games. Yes it may seem crazy, but not when stop and actually think about it. A win tomorrow night, and they’d be a favorite in probably their next 4 games or so. All of a sudden this team could be 7-7 and then they’d really be in the thick of it.

Comment by Pitt Rob 01.29.12 @ 5:54 pm

Just watched savon goodman a small forward jamie dixon is looking at for next year. Could be the athletic, slasher we need. Strong finisher @ the rim. His team got butchered by st. benedicts of newark, nj. He didnt take one jumper the whole game but was slam dunking alley oops all over the place !

Comment by Rocky20 01.29.12 @ 6:19 pm

Not going to completely dismiss star ratings, but they shouldn’t be the sole gauge of a kid’s talent.

Scout had Darrelle Revis rated as a 3-star player. He was like their 46th best corner, nationally, and was rated their 25th best player just in PA. Rivals also had him as a 3-star corner, in their mid-30’s among national corners. Oops.

Conversely, Bostick was rated relatively higher, which I’ve heard some say was the product of him having a monster year during his HS sophomore season, and neither of the sites ever downgraded him.

Dion Lewis: Scout had him as a three-star RB, ranked 70th nationally at his position. Oops.

Andrew Taglianetti in 2008 was ranked a 2-star CB Scout, who also had him ranked 114th among CB’s nationally. His only other offers were Toledo and Towson. That same class also produced Shayne Hale (Scout 5-star, ranked 3rd-best DE in the country). Again, oops and oops. Who’s been the more productive Division I football player?

I get the point…you’d always rather have a class with more talent that’s expected to do well. But these rankings fail to take into account the type of system a kid is going into, the kid’s ability and – more importantly – DESIRE to be coached up at the next level, and the abilities of the coaches to get him to that level and utilize him correctly.

Comment by Stoosh 01.29.12 @ 6:30 pm

Any word on how Steven Adams did today?

Comment by steve 01.29.12 @ 6:33 pm

oops, just saw wbb’s summary. thanks

Comment by steve 01.29.12 @ 6:35 pm

Went to Ambridge today to check out Steven Adams, HE IS LEGIT.

Here’s one man’s evaluation (mine):

+Great size, tall (7ft ish), long arms, big hands, not a bean pole.
+Moves well, good feet, good lateral movement. Looks and moves like an athlete, not a 7 footer.
+Great hands, can catch in traffic, can grab rebounds and hold them.
+Very good court sense. He lets the game come to him, doesn’t force things, makes few (if any) mistakes. Understands where he needs to be and gets there. Very productive.
+Really, really good passer. Especially on the high post. He consistently hit the open guy.
+Free throw stroke looked really good. Good touch, good follow throw, good rotation, good balance, good results.
+Good on the pick and roll. A couple time he set a ball screen and rolled to the hoop, caught a questionable pass and scored the basket.
+Good natural rebounder. In good position, good hands and did I mention 7 feet tall?
??He seems to lack explosiveness. A good jumper, but not a natural quick leaper (ie Birch). He blocked a few shots, but he wasn’t more than a couple inches off the floor.
??Post moves. Saw a baby hook (missed), but not much else in the post. He had much smaller dudes guarding him, could/should have killed them.
??Defense, hard to tell if he can play great D. He had a couple hedges on the high ball screen that looked text book, but a couple others that were weak. My guess is that Jamie will have him playing good enough, he has the tools. But he is not the kind of shot blocker that Gilbert and Birch are. And a couple times a 6’8″ athlete blew by him like he had his feet in cement.
??Mid range jumper, looked good in warm ups, didn’t try it in the game.
??Intensity, competitiveness. He could have scored 30 if he had asserted himself. There’s a fine line between “letting the game come to you” and “coasting”. My take, he was on the right side of the line, but….

After watching him play one game, I think he’s the best prospect Pitt has had since Charles Smith. He is way ahead of Gilbert and has a lot more to his game than Birch. He is 6 inches taller than Blair.

My gut; he’s not one and done, but probably two and done. It will depend on how quickly he develops some offense or gets stronger, more explosive.

He won’t be a savior for Pitt next year, but he will absolutely contribute a lot. Certainly more than Birch did in the time he was here.

Can’t wait to see him in Greentree.

Comment by boubacar aw 01.29.12 @ 6:42 pm

Oh and JP Holtz is a stud, huge, strong. He was a man among boys in the first game. If he can run a 4.6 ish 40, he will play in the nfl. Really good athlete. Can’t shoot foul shots though… 🙂

Comment by boubacar aw 01.29.12 @ 6:45 pm

Dan LOI is like a holiday that is true at least for us.
and we say the coach will coach up that 2 star or that nr and some times they do and this coach is good at it

but if we had 7 players with 5 stars and 3 players with 4 stars we would be danceing in the streets and shouting from the roof tops and you know it.

and we dont so we make the best of it and that is ok but it counts if you do so dont prentend outher wise. may be we will get there in 2 years then we can crow abought it.

Comment by FRANKCAN 01.29.12 @ 7:15 pm

Thanks, boubacar aw. Great news! But, an aside, Greentree performance doesn’t seem to be much of a predictor.

Comment by steve 01.29.12 @ 7:18 pm

Interesting positive note on Robinson regarding DeMatha’s first loss this year.

There is a rule many DC area sports fans know: never count out a DeMatha team until the final whistle. Behind a lineup filled with four Stag guards, DeMatha began to force turnovers, grab scrappy offensive rebounds and — the main thing — get stops. James Robinson finished with a season-high 25 points and scored 13 of those in the fourth.

If the game plan of Robinson taking over in the paint was instituted after halftime instead of the fourth quarter, DeMatha probably leaves Bender Arena with a solid comeback victory. Robinson is one of the best distributors in the DMV, but he’s also the strongest point guard pound-for-pound. He hit nine of his ten free throws too. He’s going to be an excellent point guard at Pittsburgh, but until then, I’d make him my go to scorer.

Neither Robinson or Adams appear to be from the pampered high school merry-go-round and AAU school. Robinson is a multi-skilled guard from one of the best highschool programs and Adams is a natural athelete of immense size only surpassed by his potential.

I think they are both Jamie Dixon style players with the basketball ability at their position of any program. If given the opportunity to learn from experience getting plenty of minutes in Nov-Jan.(taking so early season losses)Pitt can, I hope, reap the benefit of this recruiting class.

Comment by DRW 01.29.12 @ 7:18 pm

Steve, I would dispute the “Greentree performance doesn’t seem to be much of a predictor” comment. I know it’s glorified street ball, but I think it does offer a feel for who is a real player and who is not. At Greentree, it was evident that John Johnson was a real player. Cassin Diggs, on the other hand, was a complete flop and it was perfectly obvious. And thus he was shown the door. Even J.J. Moore, for as much as many of us route for him to get more PT, has never been that impressive at Greentree.

There are obviously limitations to what you can interpret from the games at Greentree, but it can be a good barometer, IMO. Based on that, I would not be surprised to see Durand Johnson make some important contributions next year. He will need to learn to play D and within the confines of the offense, but from what I saw at Greentree last summer, he is athletic, can slash to the rim, and has good range on his jumper.

Looking forward to Greentree already, and hopefully a good run the rest of BE play.

Comment by Carmen 01.29.12 @ 8:33 pm

Boubacar aw …. you nailed the description of Adams on all counts. I too think that Dixon will make him be more active on both ends of the floor. Adams did not loaf, but seemed too relaxed at times. At this stage – physical make-up, looks & moves, he reminded me some of Levon Kendall. He has better quickness though and I agree … he will really help Pitt next year. Holtz also looked good as you said … strong! Who do you think Jamie & Knight were looking at in the 1st half of the Beaver Falls-Sharon game?? …. perhaps just being polite by staying. Also very good to see Mr. Groat in attendance.

Comment by fuzzy69 01.29.12 @ 8:34 pm

If Durand is so good, Carmen, why isn’t he playing?

Comment by steve 01.29.12 @ 8:42 pm

Steve, the sf position is deep right now. Theyre better off redshirting him. I still think the best comparison for steven adams is pau gasol. Adams looks more muscular but they have virtually identical games.

Comment by Pk 01.29.12 @ 8:45 pm

Carmen – ditto on Greentree. And I would add there were major yellow flags on Birch there too.

Steve – the simple answer on Durand Johnson, he is a skinny, 18 year old, 6’6″ SF/wing on a team loaded with SF/wings who don’t have a redshirt available and who are physically more mature. Numbers game. FWIW – He is going to be a major contributer during his career, dude can shoot the rock.

Comment by boubacar aw 01.29.12 @ 9:26 pm

Jimbo, I was saying that two weeks ago. I’m with ya.

Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Digdug 01.29.12 @ 10:59 pm

Don’t let Dokish cloud your judgement…scouting is always going to have its hits and misses (The Dion Lewis’s and Shayne Hale’s of the world so to say). Who’s to say these guys (* scouts) don’t take things into account or don’t know what they’re talking about…in fact, many of them do. Sounds more like the guy (Dokish) has an axe to grind having worked at scout/rival or whatever and isn’t with them anymore. (why is that? hmmm) They’re also in the private sector so I would imagine the avg scout on rivals makes more $ than the avg scout at a state univ. Furthermore, if you look at the schools getting the 4/5 stars, they’re the ones that continually churn out great teams…look at the SEC…look at Tx Ok USC FSU MI OSU etc. Coaches know how to scout talent too and know what players fit their system. Obviously character and work ethic matter a ton and they may not be always reflected in the star system, but point is, there is some validity to sites like rivals…Dokish is just outta the game and is bitter. So much easier to cover 1 school than an entire region.

Comment by Gordo 01.29.12 @ 11:29 pm

one more thing…I don’t mean to sound overly critical of Doke, I check out his blog, he has good scoop, seems to care about Pittsburgh…I just happen to completely disagree with him on this subject.

Comment by Gordo 01.29.12 @ 11:39 pm

From Mike White’s blog this morning: “Also,Sto-Rox linebacker Deaysean Rippy tweeted that he will decide between Pitt and WVU.”

Thus, if anything, Pitt letting go of Geter may have helped.

Dokish doess has have more insider info than we have but he is also a very paasionate fan … which sometimes clouds his judgements (like mots of us).

Comment by wbb 01.30.12 @ 7:10 am

Chas, can we get a pregame post for discussing Pitt-WVU tonight? The past two games make me think we at least have a shot tonight; would be a great road win if we could pull it off!

Comment by Lou 01.30.12 @ 9:19 am

Gordo, if you think these idiots at Rivals or Scouts wouldn’t kill to be an assistant coach at a college and know just as much as those assistants then you are delusional. These people know nothing..LOL

Comment by Mike 01.30.12 @ 10:02 am

WVU is a 6.5 point favorite.

They played well in the dome. Should have beaten ‘cuse.

Kevin Jones and the big Turk will be tough matchups for us. Jones will eat up Patterson and Robinson.

Not too optimistic.

Comment by Boubacar Aw 01.30.12 @ 1:11 pm

Mike, to infer that a job at rivals/scout is the same job as an assistant coach with the same responsibilities is delusional.

Comment by gordo 01.30.12 @ 1:22 pm

Ive also been hearing the same thing about Durand Johnson sources from a insider told me that Durand is a better shooter than Ashton but Durand body is not yet physically ready.

Comment by James Joyner 02.02.12 @ 12:01 pm

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