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December 6, 2011

Please Dave, No More Talking

Filed under: Coaches,Football,Wannstedt — Chas @ 4:08 pm

Well Pitt is heading to Birmingham and the big discussion point is Dave Wannstedt. Wait. Is this 2011 or 2010?

Now let’s get this out of the way. I like Dave Wannstedt. I know he cares deeply about Pitt. I know he desperately wanted this to work. He wanted to win and win big at his alma mater. In his home turf. He wanted to be coaching Pitt for a good 10 to 15 more years. It hurt him terribly to be fired by Pitt. Especially since he never saw it coming.

I also know he cares deeply about the players that he recruited on this Pitt team. Not Jerry Sandusky or Bernie Fine deeply, but he cared.

There comes a point, though, where he has to either stop talking or be nice. What he did yesterday was more pointed, but similar to the stuff he has been doing since leaving Pittsburgh to coach linebackers for the Buffalo Bills. I’ve tried to avoid it because it should be in the past, and I had hoped that someone would tell him that he is making himself look bad. Clearly that isn’t happening.

 

He needs someone to tell him, that taking shots at Pitt, the program, the present coach. However, much he thinks is a way of getting even with AD Pederson or whatever his thought process isn’t going to work. He is no longer the coach of Pitt. He may have some friends who will support him rather than Pitt, but that is the small minority. Wannstedt more than any coach should know, “it’s about the name on the front of the jersey.” That goes for ex-coaches who happen to be alumni as well. Even Joe Paterno has learned that.

So, to the interview he did yesterday and some other points.

Let’s start with this.

“I’m really shocked the way people have put a microscope on this kid,” Wannstedt said. “It is very disappointing to me.

“In the NFL, you do it when a guy is making $10 million a year. You throw him under the bus and try to run him out of town.”

Projecting much? I’m just not sure if he is referring to his time coaching at Pitt or if he’s sticking to Miami or Chicago.

Tino has been the starting quarterback for Pitt, for the past two years. In both years, the team has underachieved from expectations — with noticeable stumbling on the offense despite really good running backs. Under normal circumstances a quarterback receives too much of the praise or blame. Sunseri quarterbacking Pitt is not normal.

“But not a 20-, 18-, 19-year-old college kid who had other places to go and chose to come to Pitt and he won a state championship there at the local high school and his father (Sal) was an All-American there?

“If he can’t play, don’t play him, but do it the right way.”

The obvious point is that Sunseri is 23. But the bigger problem was referencing Sal Sunseri in there. It is just a reminder that he is the son of one of your old friends. Given Wannstedt had Scott Turner (son of Norv) coaching WRs in the final year, it just comes off as if the greater offense in Wannstedt’s mind is harshing on the son of an outstanding former Pitt player (who just happens to be a friend). And of course, Sunseri had other places to go. He was recruited. By that standard, no college player should ever face criticism from fans and media.

As for playing him. If we had our druthers, he would have had a seat a while ago. I’m not sure if that’s a complaint about him being called out publicly at times, or the fact that in the final game Pitt went wildcat a slew of times — much to the obvious annoyance of Sunseri.

If he’s upset at Coach Graham for saying less than positive things about Sunseri the entire season — and in the aftermath of the WVU game — that is a difference of style. Graham has adopted the indirect criticism, but also accepted that it is up to the coaches to do a better job. (Even if every fan knows that at this point, it isn’t the coaching that after two years still has Sunseri making fundamental mistakes like not setting his feet and staring down receivers.)

Dave Wannstedt’s preferred method of dealing with things when a player, or team tanked — blame turnovers and correctable mistakes. It didn’t matter if they happened at the beginning or end of the season. Turnovers, correctable mistakes — and of course youth/inexperience.

It’s a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don’t thing. Don’t admit that the player is horrible, and you are treating people like idiots or possibly lying to yourself. Tell the truth, and you are tossing the kid under the bus. What probably has Wannstedt most upset is that Graham has said — and others including me agree — that right now Sunseri is the best option. That statement is more damning towards Wannstedt and the job he did in recruiting and evaluating talent.

He also feels that Pitt is trying to drive Sunseri off after this year — and also would pull him out of Pitt if he were his kid.

“If he was my son, he would be gone,” Wannstedt said on Monday, speaking on TribLive Radio. “I would pull him out of there and transfer him.”

“It doesn’t sound like the school or football program is giving him many options, to be quite honest with you,” he said.

Take your time to reconcile the two parts. I can wait.

Yes, there are people pitying Sunseri and saying he should transfer because things are toxic. And no question Graham is bluntly saying that the status quo cannot stand for the quarterback position for next year. That doesn’t mean that Sunseri can’t win the starting job. It is simply that he will actually have to win the job. Rather than have it handed to him or be the only possible choice.

My last tidbit is the pot calling the kettle black.

On the 6-6 record and return trip to the BBVA Compass Bowl:

“We were co-Big East champs last year and (the seniors) were looking to take it one step further this year.”

Yes, I am sure that is a line of pride on your resume. And that veiled shot at Graham the coach and Pitt the institution for allowing Wannstedt to be fired. Because it was so clear how much better they would have been this year with Wannstedt coaching. As if Wannstedt’s 7-5 record was a crowning achievement because they got rings.

Pitt was co-Big East champs in 2004 with an 8-4 record and actually went to the Fiesta Bowl under Walt Harris, and in 2005 Pitt stayed home with a 5-7 record under Wannstedt. But that was different because clearly the 2004 team had peaked. The 2010 team was just getting started.

Here’s where it gets really sad for Wannstedt. The comparisons to his predecessor never fully went away. But for the most part, people liked Wannstedt more and tended to land further on his side for a few reasons. One, he was simply more likeable. Two, he was a local. And three, he was the coach of the team. He was the face of the program. The fact is, fans will support the program, the institution first.

Now, he fails miserably in his final comparison to Harris. Harris was pushed out. He wasn’t extended. He was allowed to twist all season, and took the blame for his agent’s bluster. He was lucky enough to land another job at Stanford (where he failed miserably). Yet, he never uttered a negative word about Pitt. In fact, after the Stanford job, he moved back to Pittsburgh. He limited his job opportunities because he wanted to stay close to the area.

Yet Harris doesn’t make many media appearances. He still only speaks positively of Pitt.

I think back to the summer before the start of the 2005 season. I was talking with someone well plugged-in to Pitt football. He was big on Wannstedt and excited about the season. As we were talking, I said how surprised I was that so many people felt the need to tear down Harris to build up Wannstedt. It didn’t seem necessary. Harris did much to rebuild Pitt to where it was when Wannstedt took over. His comment was that, in time people will look back with more admiration and respect for Harris and what he did.

He was right. But neither of us ever thought it would be aided by Wannstedt’s behavior.





Take it easy, Dave. Why don’t you stop talking for a while.

Comment by Cool Hand Nuke 12.06.11 @ 4:15 pm

I really don’t get Wanny. He had his chance, and he didn’t make it. Six years, and only ended the year in the Top 25 once…

Comment by Dalek 12.06.11 @ 4:20 pm

nice summary Chas. loved the “deeply” reference to Sandusky/Fine. Its about Pitt, not the head coach. The success of the school and its programs is foremost.

Comment by Bossdaws 12.06.11 @ 4:26 pm

A writer for the Cleveland paper says Jabaal Sheard is the only bright spot for the Browns now.

Comment by alcofan 12.06.11 @ 4:34 pm

Chas wrote … (Even if every fan knows that at this point, it isn’t the coaching that after two years still has Sunseri making fundamental mistakes like not setting his feet and staring down receivers.)

Then bench the SOB … just like everyone AND WANNY is asking for. But instead, we have to hear post game comments like “this is what we have to work with”

Graham is supposedly the $2 million offensive genius who has had > 10 months to groom the QBs, but of course the total blame is Tino and certainly no blame can be to the new saviour coach “Todd Forbid!!”

No OL has missed any blocking assignmnets and the receivers are always open, and they hold on to every pass thrown to them … pulleeease!!!

Comment by wbb 12.06.11 @ 4:46 pm

I’m not sure what part of what Wanny said was incorrect. If you want him to be quiet, fine…but what is he wrong about? Seems like most people are just criticizing him for talking about Pitt, not what he actually said.

Comment by bigslacker 12.06.11 @ 4:51 pm

From the article above and Dokish’s article last week, I see the ‘Graham apologis’ era has now superceded the ‘Wanny apologist’ era

Comment by wbb 12.06.11 @ 4:52 pm

Maybe Chas and Dokish are just being realistic.

Comment by Mike 12.06.11 @ 4:56 pm

Ugh! The latest Pitt scandal ius getting ugly. It is fanned by the media, OF COURSE. May I suggest, GENTLEMEN, a truce!!. I urge the local media to seek other stories. Aren;t the getting tired writing about Ohio State’s failure to monitor and Penn State’s failure to admit and Syracuse’s inability to admit culpabity. Surely, some writer somewhere the the Syeel City environs can latch on to an alternative approach. The ONLY one who seems to be holding his tongue in the “Wannstedt ASffair” seems to be the Panther’s present coach who, frustrated though he may be, is trying to turn the other cheek to his predecessor. Come on, Coach Dave–you are a better man than you have been showing of late. Get with the spirit of the season. You too, wbb. Rev. George of Columbus

Comment by Rev. George Mehaffey 12.06.11 @ 5:19 pm

“This is what we have to deal with”. The most damning statement I’ve ever heard directed at a QB. RIDICULOUS. Really, you’re going to use that as an indictment of Graham’s treatment of Sunseri? RIDICULOUS. A “NO COMMENT” is more damning than that f’ing statement.

I could argue that Wanny’s coddling of Bostick was more humiliating than Graham’s of Sunseri. “He’s a bright kid”. “He practices hard”. “He’s a team first type of guy.” He was everything but a good QB. At least Sunseri is getting freakin’ playing time.

He played because he was the best option. PERIOD. If Graham had thought someone else could win a game they would have been in there.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 12.06.11 @ 5:21 pm

I’m sure Dave wishes things had gone better here for him, who would want to be fired from any job for performance, let alone at their Alma Mater…It’s too bad he doesn’t just keep quiet though….Fans will forgive almost anything in time if your heart was in the right place, but the more he talks the longer that takes.

Comment by CJK 12.06.11 @ 5:22 pm

Big Slacker:

Dave said that Tino shouldn’t be criticized because he chose to go to Pitt when he could have gone to other schools. As Chas pointed out, if that is true, then 99.9% of FBS football players shouldn’t be criticized. Put another way, almost everyone chooses to go to one school even though they have other options. That doesn’t exempt them from criticism. Wannstedt is wrong about that.

He’s also wrong when he suggests that bashing Tino isn’t cool because because he played at a local high school and because his dad is a well-decorated former Pitt player. I believe Chas pointed this out, too.

And then, Dave is wrong — if not delusional — when he suggests that there’s a “right way” to handle situations where a kid comes from certain blood lines but can’t play that is something OTHER than benching him.

So, there are those things …

Comment by JTC 12.06.11 @ 5:24 pm

Bench him in favor of which QB, wbb? My God, what if Graham hurts their feelings too?
As bad as Tino has played, and as blunt Graham has been with his indirect criticism aimed (however indirectly) at Tino, it’s obvious that Graham thinks that Meyers, Anderson and Gonzales are even worse than Sunseri. Are we supposed to have a pity party for their hurt feelings too? Maybe a group hug?

Tino and the rest of this team are getting a free ride to college for one reason – they’re supposed to be good at football. Stating the obvious (that he’s not doing it right) is not unfair treatment – not for a 23 year old QB, and not for his 18 to 22 year old team mates. What if they skipped college football and enlisted in the Marines? If they were at Parris Island like some of their HS classmates, I imagine they would be exposed to some considerably more direct criticism if they were screwing up this often. If you’re old enough to vote, and old enough to fight for your country, then you’re a grown enough man to accept criticism (and the occaisional boos) from the coaches… and the ticket buying fans paying for your free ride to college.

Comment by Patrick 12.06.11 @ 5:29 pm

Good point about Harris. I’ve had a similar reaction to him everytime he pops up (mostly scouting related). Not only does he come across as intelligent but he sounds sincere in his appreciation for the opportunity he had at Pitt and seems to regret that he couldn’t get the program to the next level. Either he’s just really good at taking the high road, or he’s just naturally a decent guy.

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 12.06.11 @ 5:36 pm

I have given my fair share of criticism toward Tino, but Wannstedt’s general point – that he is a college kid, not a millionare pro – has some merit in the context of how we critisize him. Yes, he is old enough to take boos; Yes, he is old enough to understand that poor play will be critisized; and yes, he is olde enough to understand that when things go bad, people are going to call foul with the nepotism involved with Wanny recruiting Tino to play here. But there should be some civility within the criticism, and the visciousness that has been rampant on this board and elsewhere isn’t right and does not speak well of us as alumni. Even in a post about Wannstedt, the comments all levitate toward bashing TS because people seem to take glee in it at this point. I don’t like the fact that our program is mired in mediocrity, and I don’t like the fact that our quarterback play is one of the primary reasons for it, but it doesn’t make me feel better to incessantly lay into the QB.

He stinks, and we can just leave it at that. We don’t need to pretend that he should be thankful that he isn’t in the marines or gets to go to school for “free”, forgetting the millions of dollars in revenue generated by the football program and the hours of hard work that every player has to put into the program, in addition to still having to put in all the time and work that other students do, in order to earn their “free ride” to college.

Comment by Brett97 12.06.11 @ 5:56 pm

Tino’s smart enought to realize his playing days at Pitt are over. Best of luck playing your 5th year somewhere else and best wishes for a successful career outside football. But, Wanny should have been smarter to say what he did. My contempt for Wanny grows each day while my respect for Walt deepens.

Comment by TX Panther 12.06.11 @ 6:05 pm

I think “Tossing Thabeets” is an epic screen name.

Comment by Imma Man! Im 40! 12.06.11 @ 6:08 pm

Wanny, did you see that pass during our second possession after that wonderful pick? The receiver was WIDE open on the 5 and Tino tosses a knuckle ball inside and low.

But I’m off point. Wanny, a guy I’d love to have a brew with but not coach my college team.

And, Chas, what a wonderful melange you concocted. Worthy of a better stage.

Comment by steve 12.06.11 @ 6:09 pm

I thought many of us worked hard to beat the drum to get rid of Wannstedt after last season sank deeper into the toilet. The loss to UConn, we thought, was the final straw, but it wasn’t. We had to witness the sleep walk through the West Virginia game in those ridiculous looking Nike unis. Wannstedt needs to once and for disappear. In six seasons he coached in two bowl games. I do, however, agree with wbb on this point: Graham is supposed to be an offensive minded wizard. Certainly he should have identified Sunseri’s poor fit for his offense and made other plans when he could scrounge up a transfer or work diligently with the other talent he had.

Comment by Tonyinhouston 12.06.11 @ 6:11 pm

So really, after seeing Tino for only spring ball Graham would be expected to pull in a miracle savior walk-on? After the recruiting process ended? Now, I do think it was probably obvious to Graham that Tino was a poor college QB (for any system) but nobody’s gonna be able to grab anyone remotely viable over the summer. You end up at best with someone like Anderson, and we know how that turns out.
And I really think most of us are capable of offering somewhat rational thoughts without needing to be considered “apologists.”

Comment by JW 12.06.11 @ 6:33 pm

- $ 2 million head coach based on his offensive acumen
- 2 accomplished offensive coordinators, AND
- a QB coach

and allegedly not one QB that can play???

Face it … Tino has been made the sacrificial lamb for the performance of both the team and the highl paid coaching staff. According to just about everyone on this site, he is the sole reason for the current mediocrity.

This has got to be one of the most amazing phenomena I’ve ever seen. I change my nickname of Graham from Mr. Marinovich to Mr.Teflon

Comment by wbb 12.06.11 @ 6:49 pm

Agree with Patrick 100%. It’s incredible how soft many people are these days. Tino has received mild criticism in total compared to how awful he has played. It’s not like he is getting the treatment Pat McAfee got from the WVU animals. When a college “kid” faces actual threats, violence, or vandalism, then the line has been crossed. Sorry some people can’t handle a few “boo”s.

Comment by Hollywood 12.06.11 @ 6:53 pm

wbb – no amount of money could procure a coach to solve the 2011 Pitt Panthers qb problems. Graham’s salary is irrelevant.

Comment by Hollywood 12.06.11 @ 6:55 pm

Tino still sucks

Comment by Timmeh 12.06.11 @ 6:57 pm

I have to agree with Hollywood, wbb your obsession with Graham’s salary is becoming annoying, wbb you sound like a typical unemployed MBA.

Comment by Sam 12.06.11 @ 7:13 pm

Nobody needs my opinion but,

1) I supported DW as much as anybody and strongly prefer a pro- style ball control offense. DW had worn thin, and started to lose discipline. The team quitting against WVU was inexcusable. It was time for him to go.

2) His firing was poorly conducted but not sure how else it could have been handled because none of us know what all went on. But Todd Graham had nothing to do with any of this.

3) Anyone who thinks Sunseri was the only problem this year is a moron. We have all lamented the many problems. I thought Graham was fairly kind to Sunseri and protected him so much many of us on here were sick of it. Graham has a good record with qb’s but Sunseri won’t be one of them.

4) Sunseri deserves our thanks for playing for Pitt and I wish him well wherever he plays. He is a Pitt guy but It didn’t work out. time to move on.

5) Dave needs to shut up and show some class if he is a real Pitt man.

Comment by Bowling Green Panther 12.06.11 @ 7:23 pm

This may be the quote of the year. What has he been smoking?

“I think what John Marinatto just did, he should get a substantial raise for what he just accomplished,” Louisville coach Rick Pitino said. “Getting Boise State. Getting Houston, SMU. I think that is as good of a job for a commissioner with his back against the wall as I’ve seen since I’ve been in athletics.”

Comment by Bowling Green Panther 12.06.11 @ 7:26 pm

Wbb give it a brake tino sucks

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.06.11 @ 7:28 pm

WBB – I normally oppose most of your viewpoints but this one I adamently oppose. Tino Sunseri is the worst (and second place is a long way off) QB to start for Pitt in the 41 years I have been watching. Graham may or may not be a good coach but he has gone out of his way not to mention sunseri by name,even though Tino has personally cost us at least 2 games.

It is not that people are down on Tino because he is untalented and cannot throw long,except side arm and cannot run fast…it is because he makes the same inane mistakes over and over and over. It does not take talent to: set your feet quickly when you drop back; hold the ball with two hands when you run; don’t stare down recievers; etc etc.
And then, after he makes a mistake you can multiply the above x 3 and include pulling back from center without the ball. These are Jr. High School QB fundmentals. Tino is a very tough kid and has absorbed a good many hits this year…I will give him that, but TG and his staff deserve an award for patience…not criticism. Tino has embarassed this staff, his school and the many fans who have put their hearts and souls into rooting for this program.

He does not deserve the boo’s but they come with the territory.

Comment by Dan 72 12.06.11 @ 7:30 pm

who will be our new coachs

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.06.11 @ 7:31 pm

wbb you get it, does chas allow these bashers to continue or does he say enough ,does it make these invisible infants relevant, 5 yr contacts for these clowns that are now leaving ,reed please grab chas and shake his a$$ or im leaving adventure time with nick perry and the 3stooges and i will do it.

Comment by paul shannon 12.06.11 @ 7:32 pm

Dan no one could have said that better you are so right tino sucks and that is that. very well put Dan you hit the nail on the head

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.06.11 @ 7:36 pm

wbb, how can Tino be a sacrificial lamb when he is the ONLY QB not to pick up Graham’s system? He didn’t have this issue at either of his first two stops and Clemson’s QB didn’t have an issue picking it up his first year…neither did Cam Newton. Tino has been the only failure at QB in this system. I’m going to give Graham the benefit of the doubt.

He hasn’t embarrassed Tino in public either. He’s alluded to things but the almighty Urban Meyer was more critical of his first QB at Florida, Chris Leak…and he won a National Championship with the dude. He said on numerous occasions that he didn’t fit what he was trying to do. The same stuff Graham was doing, Urban just had a better team.

Steve Spurrier has notoriously been hard on his QB’s. It goes with the territory.

This isn’t meant to bash Tino but to show the reality of the situation.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 12.06.11 @ 7:48 pm

maybe greyhound instead of graham like the bus every one is talking about

Comment by paul shannon 12.06.11 @ 7:48 pm

Big East to add 5 schools on wensday

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.06.11 @ 7:54 pm

Bossdaws Dan and outhers i have big News
TG offered a job to secondary coach Van Malone from Tulsa . i dont know how talks went dont know if it a yes or a no but there is interest on TGs part .

Comment by FRANKCAN 12.06.11 @ 8:28 pm

My Mother taught me, “if you can’t say something nice about somebody, don’t say anything at all. DW, you listening? And BTW, Tino practices well. That’s all I have nice to say.

Comment by Dr. Tom 12.06.11 @ 8:42 pm

This only proves that Wanny is a three time loser and classless punk. If the guy loved Pitt so much why didn’t he lobby for an assistant AD job or some other position where he could help recruit talent, sell “pipeline to the pros” and continue to have a positive impact on the program. Instead he pulls this crap. And just like Chicago, Dallas, Miami, he didn’t perform at Pitt, demonstrated an ineptitude on game day and basically lost every big game during his tenure. I hated his hire, knew he would he would fail, hated the school for not getting a real college football coach and giving in to the golden panther sponsors who have never gotten it right in 20 plus years. Hey Wanny if you weren’t such a loser in a powder puff conference you would still be here. Deal with it man.

Comment by IH8PITT 12.06.11 @ 8:45 pm

Can anyone say Tino showed improvement from game 1 to game 12 this year, from Buffalo to Syracuse? Clearly imo no. And he’s not overly talented to begin with, and kind of a dick for always using “we” when he screws up and never just “I”…etc. etc. etc.

Therefore, given he likely is not the leading starting QB candidate for next year, why waste the opportunity of letting Jones, Gonzalez, or Meyers face some live fire in the bowl game? Maybe Voytik is the second coming of Steve Young, but maybe he ain’t close…in which case, why not find out what else you’ve got on your hands for next year?

With a month of practice one or two of those guys should be able to get prepared…almost like summer camp but easier since you just have one opponent to focus on the whole time. I can’t come up with a reason not to give one or two of the younger guys a shot at it…other than fear of change or political influence.

Comment by Matt N. 12.06.11 @ 9:08 pm

Thank you Chas.

Well said. Losing a lot of respect for Wanny with his childish behavior.

Comment by sweet caroline 12.06.11 @ 9:53 pm

Equating this to medieval days and all the way thru the 19th century. You can NEVER criticize princes, dukes, barons, (US Senators maybe) and the like including legacies and prodigies and certainly prodigies of All-Americans. The you would be the commoners or the peasants. You might not like the way they rule over you (or in this case play), but you’re supposed to shutup, grin, bend over and say; ‘more please’ and ‘thank you very much’.

Oh and don’t forget to send your donation! haha

Comment by Emel 12.06.11 @ 9:58 pm

@ Matt N… I’m really not sure what you don’t get. There is nothing to find out with the three guys you mention. Myers does not fit this system (showed no interest in learning this system) and will most likely transfer. Gonzalez can’t throw nearly well enough to play QB at this level. Ronald Jones had no other BCS offers and was heading to Ga. Southern until TG offered him a scholarship as a WR. TG has compared him favorably to the all-time all purpose yardage leader at Tulsa… a kick returner and WR. He is not a QB.

Next year will be Tino, Trey, Chad or a transfer/JUCO… Period. These three guys are not in the running. So, preparing them to play QB in a bowl game would be a complete waste of time.

Comment by Pitt89 12.06.11 @ 10:06 pm

It is what it is. Wanny took one path, Harris took another. That does not make one better or worse than the other. Doesn’t make one right and one wrong. Look, who cares about what any prior coach says. The only insight they can bring is during their respective time at the helm. Everything else is pure fodder and speculation.

Stevie P has gotta go……

Reed and Chas, if you look back to my original comments when I started posting, I told you all that Gibson was outta here to follow rick fraud. If Steve P was really in tune with this, he would have not allowed multiple staff members to be hired from a coaching staff that was aching to get back to coaching. Now there is a void and hopefully it can be filled shortly without disruption. Steve P doesn’t understand big business. You just don’t do that. Now there is a built in excuse next year for underperforming!

Funny, but hearing Walt Harris’ name makes me think about him as an OC. Now that would be fun to see two “proclaimed” offensive gurus, combine their knowledge and go high octane. TG would need to be comfortable in his position. Just a thought during a time when the changes need to be seemless.

Comment by dhuffdaddy 12.06.11 @ 10:45 pm

I’m sure Graham was well aware that once RichRod got a new gig they were outta here. I’m sure there was a reason Magee wasn’t given full OC duties. Pitt lost two run of the mill assistants that will be easily replaced and one good coach, that just happened to have a redundant position. Pitt will be fine. Schools lose assistants all of the time. This really should be a non-issue. Coaches stick together and Graham had openings at a time when a few of “his” guys also needed jobs. It’s how college football works. There should be no ill will towards these assistants for finding other jobs, especially when they have no previous attachment to Pitt.

Comment by Tossing Thabeets 12.06.11 @ 11:41 pm

I really don’t see any Graham apologists. Most comments i’ve seen, (and consistently mine) have been that Graham gets a couple years before the verdict is out. That’s true in the NFL, NHL, MLB and in the NCAA. Heck, high school too.

Apologists, hell, the couple posts I’ve seen that are one way or another, are a couple peoples posts during the year, “Can Graham allready”.

I’ve seen tons of negative comments about Graham on here. Pertaining to mainly game day decisions.
I pontificated on here early in the season that the “pooch punt” is absolute garbage, especially when this is supposed to be “high octane”. I and many others questioned him all year about not yanking Tino. I mean it was endless. I was on him just last week for having Gonzales in their, getting 9 yards in two plays, then putting Tino back in on 3rd and 1 and throwing.

Apologists, don’t see it.

Sacrificial lamb??? You only need a sacrificial lamb when your job is on the line. Graham has a contract for 5???, and knows he really gets 2 or 3 before the real heat comes on if he hasn’t done anything. He has no need to do that. (Especially when anyone can see what he’s had to deal with, he didn’t need to say anything)

He’s had 10 months to groom a qb??? You can have 10 years to groom a qb, if the qb’s aren’t groomable, you ain’t gonna do it.

I’ve seen almost everyone on here, (save a few), but the regulars, at one time or another state that it’s not just Tino, it’s the o line, receivers not getting open etc. etc.

I believe we all have a somewhat understanding of football, and understand that.

We all also know, that the key posistion on any football team, be it Pro, college or high school is the quarterback posistion. He touches the ball every play, his decisions decide where the play will go, and his efficiency and effectivness will WAY MORE OFTEN THAN NOT effect the outcome of the play.

The quarterback is also, more than any other posisiton, in a posistion to help his team, and make unexpected plays, and provide unexpected help to his team mates if the blocking breaks down or recievers are not open.

Is he expected to do it every play, of course not, but, several times a game you should be able to count on your qb to help out on his own.

Yes, others have a role also, but to deny that the qb is not the main cog in the engine borders on insanity if one knows the game of football in the least.

Another qb may not have made us better than mediocre, but, if you watched the season, and you don’t think that Tino cost a couple games, I don’t know what team you were watching.

What is most disturbing about Tino and his play is, he doesn’t look like he’s progressed one iota from last year. He looked the same, or worse at times this year after having started for almost or even a couple more than 20 games at qb.

He doesn’t look an ounce better than when he started the UTAH game at the beginning of the 2010 season.

Two different systems, ya, ya, ya, I’m talking about his throwing, his decision making, his lack of a “feel” for the rush. Nothing to do with a “system”. Everything to do with being a qb.

As for DW. His comments make him look really small and petty. In his situation, in business, in life, the “high road” is usually the road to take.

See right now, I’m taking the high road by not saying something about DW and how “he should really be worrying about his Buffalo Bills on a 5 game losing streak, including his defense giving up 44 points to Dallas and 35 points to Miami during this streak, instead of taking digs at a new coach, his old boss, and his alma mater”

See, I’m taking the high road, not gonna say it!!!

LMAO!!!!!

Comment by Dan 12.07.11 @ 12:37 am

Hey Matt,

How about from Game 1 last season against Utah?

I would say more like regressed. Transferring to Slippery Rock or Clarion is the best option for Sonny boy.

Although I did find it more than amusing that hey, two (2) years in a row at the Compass Bowl.
How likely do you draw a 3rd rate bowl two years in a row. And quite by coincidence (I guess) this bowl game is played in Birmingham, Alabami, where none other than daddy Sal works. So him & Roxy & Vinnie don’t even have to travel anywhere to watch Sonny boy attempt to play QB.

But I as posted maybe a month ago now, somehow I get the feeling Sonny is going to play a Uconn like game, since SMU has a terrible defense, much like Uconn. In SMU’s 6 games against better teams
they are giving up an AVERAGE of almost 34 ppg and their average yards given up by their lame defense against those 6 teams is 450 yards per game with a high of 513 vs. UH.

Btw, SMU lost 5 of those 6 games to A&M (14-46),
USM (3-27), Tulsa (7-38), Navy (17-24) and Houston (7-37). They did manage to upset, then #20 TCU (40-33 in OT), earlier in the season, before TCU got on a roll.

So this is a perfect IMO opponent for Sonny to have one of his sterling performances. And be the BBVA Compass Bowl MVP ! Yeah !!!

Then he will be set for his big senior season, heck he might own all the Pitt passing records.
Except of course for TD passes, unless he throws 60 next year. He would definitely have the record for QB times sacked. haha

Veritas et Virtus

HTP !

Comment by Emel 12.07.11 @ 12:51 am

Funny you being on here Dan-o. (are you a night owl?)

And are you starting your great American novel?
:-) haha Didn’t think I was going to make it thru all of that. But I did ! lol

It was like spring down here today, 70 degrees.
Found myself thinking of spring training, then the Pirates came to mind and ended that thought.

So DW came out and defended his Little Prince Santino, not surprising at all. All the things I’ve been preaching about these relationships, between coach’s sons, prodigies, legacies and All-Americans came to bear in his stmts. And Sonny boy is unique because he has ALL of these powerful factors(ie. forces) coming into play on his side.

Comment by Emel 12.07.11 @ 1:11 am

This is DW’s last bit of time in the spotlight. Face facts, LB Coach for the Bills after his resume of more meaningful jobs tells you the end of his career is upon him. Too bad he chose to mouth off but he never was quiet about much anyway.
The past is carved in stone and no amount of time under this or any offense is going to teach Tino to throw the ball away instead of running out of bounds and taking an 8 yard loss.

He listen, he wears his name on his back in front of paying customers and for that he deserves my respect. Think about it for a minute, what if everyone in every job wore their last name on their backs, had a paying populace read weekly critiques from our bosses and then had to go out and outperform your peers? It would be a different world for sure.

But my respect for him does not cloud my judgment. He is in over his head. RMU gets better QB play as does Duquesne. I hope he goes somewhere that makes him happy.

Comment by SFPitt 12.07.11 @ 2:17 am

Too bad you can’t make trades in college. I believe Northwest Idaho State would give two slightly used footballs for Tino.

Comment by Pittastic 12.07.11 @ 6:15 am

A few thoughts.

Dave Wannstedt has made many public gaffes since he starting in coaching back in 1979 but this last one may be the winner. The air of desperation to keep his name relevant among discussions about PITT football would be humorous if it were so blatantly sad as it’s done to feed his own ego.

What DW doesn’t understand is that he just doesn’t have the personal or professional capital with PITT and PITT fans to spend on crap like this. Aside from a few vocal supporters, the vast majority of people associated with the university were happy to see the back of him as he limped out the door.

I truly believe that DW wanted to be, and thought he was, the Joe Paterno of PITT football and that somehow his wishes superseded those of others more powerful than him. I have written on here about when DW started Sheard in that Utah game it was akin to DW playing chicken with his superiors… and DW obviously lost.

That right there was the tipping point to his downward slide out the door and Wannstedt did absolutely nothing to help himself during the season to change the admin’s minds. I reference this as a background for DW’s animosity towards the football program and how he obviously harbors real and negative emotions on that front.

People keep saying that ‘his firing wasn’t handled well’ but in reality the opposite was true – Wannstedt knew in advance that the administration was hot to make a change… he just flat out didn’t believe it could happen to him. He probably thought he was going to be told to make staff changes or something along those lines. That was the source of his surprise and anger we saw at that self-serving press conference he pulled. He was saying “How could they do this to me? Why me, Dave Wannstedt, the loyal Son!!?”

So he’s pissed rotten about what he sees as a injustice done to him and he’s grasping at straws to somehow make his legacy at PITT more positive. “We were co-champions of the Big East”. Good God, how precious is that? He knows that is the ONLY thing he can hang his hat on. Yet he takes unneeded and immature potshots at his successor who BTW finished the regular season one game short of DW’s ‘championship’ season and did it without those eight pre-NFL players in the starting lineup.

Look at his other statements also – he keeps in touch with the players… you can bet the first words out of his mouth during those phones calls is “OK, tell me the dirt…” The man has never heard of the act of graciousness.

Comment by Reed 12.07.11 @ 6:58 am

I think Wannstedt continues to prove why he was fired. He was disrespectful to the chain of command, bull headed, blind and ran his program through the good-ole-boy network.

Comment by McKeePl 12.07.11 @ 7:35 am

I played for Johnny Majors and Walt Harris. Although I did not necessary agree with the way that Walt treated us when I was in the moment I now look back on it and “get it”. He is a great football mind.

Comment by Corey Plis 12.07.11 @ 8:23 am

thanks for the update on the asst coach, FRANKCAN.

Pitt89: agree on your assessment (and others) of the current roster of QBs, but ONE reason to play different QBs and wildcat in bowl game is our collective blood pressures. Bowl games should be fun. Watching Tino is no fun.

Comment by Bossdaws 12.07.11 @ 8:44 am

Wannstedt’s mention of Tino’s dad is the most disturbing part of all this. It proves that Tino got preferential treatment from Dave. That kind of thinking never produces good results.
Funny, Dave never spoke about Max Gruder being treated wrong because Graham criticized the LB coverage at the beginning of the year. I guess he isn’t pals with the Gruder family.
Graham will be successful at Pitt. Give him a freaking chance.

Comment by notrocketscience 12.07.11 @ 9:15 am

Ahh, e-mel!! Sorry, I was bloviating a bit there. Yes, a night owl also.

You’ll be happy to know, it’s about 40 deg here and raining. Those big drops, that go down the back of your shirt collar and give you a jolt!!

Comment by Dan 12.07.11 @ 9:22 am

@Boss… Unfortunately, I can’t really argue with that. Thought I was going to blow a gasket at the end of the WVU game…

Comment by Pitt89 12.07.11 @ 9:56 am

Graham past has shown he is not an offensive wizzard, playing in the USA confernce, check the soores during the season the offensive statistics are significantly skewed with blowouts against the bottom feeders of the conference.
Pitt scored over a 100 points this year compared to last year when Tino QBed his first season and the our running attack suffered compared to the previous two years.
Most telling is that in 2010 Pitt in the 4th quater doubled their oppoents points while in 2011 the opponents double Pitts scoring in the fourth quarter.
These facts are not stated as a defense of DW but for the debunking of TG as an offensive wizzard or more than a marginally succesful coach in his five seasons in the miserable USA conference with no titles and a 66% winning percentage – this percentage merifully does not count the 2011 season.

Comment by DRW 12.07.11 @ 10:43 am

Tino will probably look good in the bowl game. He looked pretty good in the bowl last year. No pressure. He’ll look terrific in Spring practice – always does, no pressure. How can Graham sit him down? He’ll be wonderful in practice. He will start every game in fine fashion – two TD lead. Then the pressure will build and he won’t be able to complete a ten yard pass. But there won’t be anybody else to turn to, since Tino got all the reps in Spring and every practice.

Comment by 66Goat 12.07.11 @ 10:47 am

Wanny had a 57% winning percentage in six years in the Big Least, so, I guess we’ll take Todd Graham at %66!!!

Got them to the same bowl in his first year, that Wanny got them too in his 6th year, so, sounds pretty good too me!!!!

Comment by Dan 12.07.11 @ 11:08 am

When you say “In both years, the team has underachieved from expectations — with noticeable stumbling on the offense despite really good running backs” you are really stretching it. How long ago did Ray Graham go down?

Comment by GatewayPride 12.07.11 @ 11:09 am

I supported Dave when he was the coach at Pitt, However, I think he is way off base with this crap.

I guess Dave has not watched many games this year. I hope he keeps his dignity. As for his defense of Tino..I understand it and I applaud it. He could have been a little more diplomatic however. Something like …Well he was recruited for the Pro Style offense and Coach Graham is using something a little different etc. etc.

This points out to me that he certainly does not agree nor like Todd or his philosophy of how to treat a college football player. I personally think Todd is doing what is needed at Pitt. OUT with the POOR performers and lets try someone whoo can perform at a high level. Yes even it is the son of an alum.

The fact that Graham has used 12 to 13 freshman this year would have never happened with Dave.

Comment by Pitt Man 12.07.11 @ 12:13 pm

Pitt89…love how you and your like are so certain about everything. Going by the book, as you are with Jones and Gonzo and Meyers, if Jones was so lightly recruited, what about Anderson? And conversly, Bostick was a big shot recruit and showed he didn’t have near the athleticism to play D1 QB. How many examples of ‘should not…could not’ etc. etc. etc. do we need to review to prove ‘on paper’ is largely meaningless and the field of play decides things?

Just a quick sample: Tom Brady (7th round pick — projected lifetime clipboard holder), Ryan Leaf (first round bust), Jamarcus Russel (first round bust), Joe Montana (3rd rounder, too small/weak arm), etc. etc. etc.

But I know it gives you guys great comfort to go by the book and let others do the thinking for you, so go ahead and say my examples are pointless and the critics and cognescenti are always right.

My only point is whether they are or are not in the case of the guys I’d like to see, you or I or anyone other than Pitt insiders don’t know, plain and simple…all we have is words on paper. If you are a high school scout or friend of Graham’s, okay, but otherwise how do you know? I’m willing to admit that but you guys aren’t.

I have no agenda against Tino…I rooted for him starting with Utah last year and would have been psyched if he played at an All-American level, but he’s been so bad so often that it begs the question how can giving someone else a shot be a bad thing? If the other guys are worse, someone needs to be fired for approving their scholarships, regardless of potential position change.

Comment by Matt N. 12.07.11 @ 12:33 pm

Chas, I took the Sal Sunseri reference differently than you did. I thought the reference was that Tino comes from a Pitt family and we are not treating Tino the way he deserves to be treated as a fellow Pitt brother.

Even if we go 0 and 12 which I pray would never happen, the players on the team would still be Pitt men and Pitt people and I would still be proud of them. We have seen much darker days of Pitt football over the past 30 years and Tino has taken so bad of a verbal beating from alumni, local media, and his own coach…that we are bringing our own Pitt people down rather than building them up.

Comment by AJ 12.07.11 @ 1:09 pm

@Matt N… Funny you should mention Bostick. He played in my local Lancaster-Lebanon league. Saw him play many times. Great kid and very bright… but a local sportswriter friend of mine and I told everyone who would listen that he wouldn’t be a very good D1 QB.

You don’t have to be a scout, rocket scientist or genious to see that Myers is a complete mismatch for this system. Not his fault or TG’s fault. Even the coach that recruited Gonzalez moved him away from the QB position. I don’t believe Jones was recruited by anyone to play QB (I might be wrong on that). Can he play the slot, return kicks and take a few snaps in the Wildcat. Sure… but he isn’t playing D1 QB.

Oh and the Wildcat isn’t really a viable offensive system. It’s a gimmick, change up play. It happened to work at Arkansas because they had McFadden, Felix Jones and Peyton Hillis.

Graham played what 12 or 13 true freshmen this year. Don’t you think he would have sat Tino at some point if he really believed his replacement was on the current roster.

I’m not a Tino fan by any stretch, but there were many faults on offense. I honestly believe (and it would seem so does TG) that playing any of the other three options at QB would represent taking a step backwards.

Did you notice when TG started to use the Wildcat more…when they were officially eliminated from BE contention. Doesn’t that tell you something??

Comment by Pitt89 12.07.11 @ 1:09 pm

AJ, your point is well taken.

However, I would like to mention, that I have not seen one poster say disparaging remarks about Tino, the son, brother, nephew, uncle, person or as a human being on here ever.

Maybe someone did a couple times, admittedly most of us can’t read every single post, but, from someone that usually checks the Blather almost every day, I haven’t seen anyone questioning him as a person and human being.

Yes, a lot of bashing about his QB play, absolutely, not going to argue that.

I also think he got a pass many times, because of who he was, and how most of us wanted him to succeed, just because he’s Sal’s son, and a Central and Pgh. kid.

I would imagine most of us, unless someone out there has a grudge against the Sunseri’s??????, wanted him to succeed, become an all-American and lead us to a Orange Bowl victory.

I mean, personally, I could care less who the qb is, if he’s performing on the field.

Comment by Dan 12.07.11 @ 1:27 pm

Comparing this year’s offense to last year’s offense in order to draw conclusions about Coach Graham’s offense is ridiculous. There are so many things that are different such as injuries and players leaving for the NFL. Also, even though Tino was a 1st year starter he had been able to learn the system for 2 years during his redshirt year and Freshman year.

Comment by Wardapalooza 12.07.11 @ 1:33 pm

Thank God this season is over and we can look to the Post Tino era of Pitt football. Wanny is acting like the loser that he is. Good luck in Buffalo Dave!

I wish I could be more enthusiastic about Tood Graham but he has a lot to prove. 6-6 in the Big East with a weak non-con is absolutely unacceptable and the blame it on the “system” bullshit is getting old fast

Comment by Coach Ditka 12.07.11 @ 2:09 pm

Does 6-6 sound any better when you consider he took over a 7-5 team on short notice following a PR nightmare which lost it’s best RB, WR, O-Lineman, D-Linemen and glue guy on D (DeCicco), with no appreciable QB talent, suffered a rash of injuries to his best offensive players, was in virtually every game, and was not embarassed at home on national TV TWICE where his team basically quit.

Comment by Pitt89 12.07.11 @ 2:27 pm

AJ – I’ll disagree with you also. Wannstedt’s referencing Sal Sunseri is just what it looks like. Wannstedt is saying “How dare that newcomer Graham do that to a PITT legacy who’s All American father is my best friend”.

You may be cursed, or lucky in the case of PITT football I suppose, with a short memory but it was only two years almost to the day when DW stated Sunseri was going to be the starting QB. That’s it, fin, finale.

He did that, publicly, before the 2009 bowl game, reiterated it publicly ever chance he could and stuck with that by not allowing any other QB on the roster to take 1st string snap in any of the camps and practices leading up to the opener.

Sunseri was an unproven QB and we had another player with gameday experience, and wins under his belt, in Pat Bostick. Yet no one else even got the chance to compete for that open QB spot. Not Bostick, Gonzalez, everyone’s fair haired boy Myers… no one got even a look. That bit of patronage was etched in stone early on when Tino Sunseri transferred from North Carolina and was purposely held back a year to be able to play two years at Central Catholic… that is why he’s a 23 year old rsJR.

It was re-cast when Wannstedt never benched Sunseri once, not once, for cause in the middle of that poor play Sunseri showed in 10 out of the 12 regular season games.

So, here is something to think about. DW was willing to trade off a 7-5 season – when his team was loaded with studs at almost every position but QB – because he wouldn’t bench Sal’s kid to try someone else back there. Of course not – that would have been embarrassing for Tino and for his father.

There is your “PITT man” for you. Of course Tino Sunseri keeps in touch with Wannstedt because Wannstedt treated Sunseri like the pampered kid he is and wouldn’t criticize him or sit him down. Hell, DW was Tino Sunseri’s comfort blanket.

If you don’t believe that Wannstedt’s 30 year friendship with Sal Sunseri had a hand in that I’ve a bridge in Brooklyn for you to buy.

I do think it is interesting though that DW doesn’t publicly call out any of the upperclassmen he himself recruited when they turn their backs on Sunseri while he’s on the ground or who won’t sit within ten feet of him on the bench. They did it last year and they did it again this year. These kids aren’t stupid – they know the fix was in last year between DW and Sunseri.

But speaking of legacies don’t you think it is ironic that Tom Ricketts wouldn’t let his son play for Dave Wannstedt but as soon as Graham was hired he wanted his son to transfer to PITT as soon as possible?

Comment by Reed 12.07.11 @ 3:55 pm

Spot on Reed.

Comment by TX Panther 12.07.11 @ 4:57 pm

Very good and most accurate post Reed.

Last year’s team has how many guys in the NFL(?), even saw Henry Hynoski catch a kickoff for the NY Giants on Sunday. So he made that team as a Free Agent. Jabal Sheard is already a star at Cleveland. Jonathan Baldwin caught a pass against none other than the Steelers and was a 1rst round pick as we all know.
Dion Lewis made the Eagles even though they have LeSean McCoy, who is really coming into his own this year. Which btw would have been his first season in the NFL had he stayed for 4. And we have several others as well.

Last year’s team was another 10 or 11 win team had they had a competent QB and the players knew it, which caused team dissension IMO.

Finally, in all other situations DW always went experience when choosing someone to play, other than a phenom like McCoy or Lewis. Always EXCEPT at QB, where his lifelong friend,fellow coach and fellow PITT man’s son was made the ONLY option at QB. (when experience wise, which was DW’s main decision making tool, pointed toward Bostick)

Tino was so assured of his position, that I’ll never forget the time he walked off the field, after another failed drive, he just ignored DW, when DW was trying to tell him something, basically thumbing his nose at him.

Nobody else on the team got away with that crap, and I’m sure the other players took notice !

I posted last year early in the season, that DW had hitched his wagon to Sunseri and when that wagon ended up 7-5 in a watered down BigEast, it cost DW his dream job. Which goes to show you how much this stuff means to some people.

Comment by Emel 12.07.11 @ 7:36 pm

Hate to beat this dead horse, but again those who want to bash Todd Graham for his statements once he was hired.

What would you have him say after the fiasco of Smilin Steve and the Coach selection of Doom. (Haywood).

Well folks this ain’t my team yet, this ain’t my kids so I doubt we will even break .500.

Wow, how would have an already shot locker room have reacted to that statement.

Coach Graham did the only thing he could do which was talk the program up. And be excited. If for nothing else but to try and bring the team back together.

Hey just what he said to the kids about Wanny when he got here showed a great deal of concern about rebuilding a team.

I won’t convince the haters…but let me just say I was torn by this hire. I wanted Wanny to be successful, I wanted Bradley (and I was wrong). I thought his system didn’t match up well witht he talent on the roster.

All that being said, I am willing to wait it out and see what his system can do. He has earned at least a couple of seasons to show results.

DaveD

Comment by DaveD 12.07.11 @ 8:48 pm

Excellent posts Reed, EMEL and DAVED.

Yes, allthough admittedly maybe Coach Graham was a bit over the top, (ok, see I admitted that, a lot of us thought that), DAVE’s post is right on the money, to those that criticize, I say to you also..

What did you want him to do???? I don’t know him one bit, but, after seeing and listening to him this year, I also don’t think it was bs. I believe he thought he was gonna put the pedal to the metal.

Looking back, could he have chosen his words better, or toned it down a tad, sure, probably, he’d probably tell you the same thing.

As for the being positive “let’s go, let’s get it, let’s move”, I’ll take that over listening to someone that would rather have me watching paint dry.

I’ll beat a dead horse also DAVED, from yesterday, I haven’t seen one apologist for Todd Graham yet.

Everyone I see, says just about the same thing.
The guy gets two or three years to see how his coaching works with his recruits.

Believe me, if he doesn’t win some games in the next couple years, the heat will be on him.

Nothing new, and nothing unique to Pittsburgh or college football. That’s the way it is in the coaching profession.

Comment by Dan 12.07.11 @ 11:12 pm

So basically in the Eyes of Wanny, if you were a legacy kid, you did no wrong? No wonder it took his team multiple seasons to finally get back to a bowl game. Good riddens.

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