masthead.jpg

November 15, 2011

As I have mentioned, I’m taking part in the Volvo’s Biggest Fan in the Big East challenge. Things are starting to get underway, including the intro video to very briefly hear from some of the participants.

The voting isn’t active yet, but there are other challenges.

The first challenge is to come up with an “All-Time Big East Dream Team.”

There really are no rules to it, other than picking a total of 12 players and justifying the picks.

So, I don’t have to have my final picks and reasons yet. Right now it is about figuring out who should be on the team.

I’m going to set my own rules, to make it easier and harder. Any member of the team has to have played at least 3 years. No one-and-dones. That is more about talented players who are known because they are NBA stars. I want the guys who I really hated (or loved) in the Big East. So, yeah, I just eliminated DeJuan Blair from being on the team. I also eliminated Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson and others who were/are fantastic basketball players but not guys I really think of when it comes to the Big East.

The only other rule, is that I’m looking for a real squad. Not 10 guards and a couple centers or forwards. The breakdown of the 12-man squad should have: 2 Centers, 4 forwards and 6 guards. There can be some obvious liberties with wing forwards or players who were tweeners of guard/forward, but I’m trying to think of what would make a great team.

So, roughing it out:

Centers

Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Emeka Okafor, UConn

I really think of these two as the best centers from the Big East. Ewing is a no-brainer. An argument could be made for Alonzo Mourning with 3 straight defensive player of the year awards and player of the year one year in the Big East. At the same time, he overlapped with Dikembe Mutombo. Okafor stands out for me. Annoyingly classy, intelligent and killed Pitt.

The only other one that could be argued, is Donyell Marshall from UConn. Yes, he was a forward in the NBA, but at UConn he played and starred as a Center.

Forwards

Bill Curley, Boston College. It may be just for this old SI cover. But Curley was a hell of a player in the 90s.

Charles Smith, Pitt

Jerome Lane, Pitt. A beast. And really, if you want to talk about the player who provided one of the signature moments — not just in the Big East but in college basketball — and was the focal point of the signature call. Then he has to make the list.

Derrick Coleman, Syracuse. Forget the underachieving, binge eating, hotdog necked NBA player that wasted his potential. Coleman was a tremendous college player. Four years at Syracuse and he averaged a double-double for his career (and only as a freshman did he not do so for the season).

Michael Smith, Providence. One of the great rebounders in the Big East. He led Providence to their only Big East Tournament Championship (and their only appearance in the championship game).

Richard Hamilton, UConn

Guards

Brandin Knight, Pitt

Troy Bell, Boston College

Chris Mullin, St. John’s. Like Ewing and Coleman, a given for any All-Big East team.

Khalid El-Amin, UConn. God he was easy to hate. So, so easy to hate. And such a great college point guard. He ruined what should have been a very good day. I was at that game. Bad times. Bad times.

Ray Allen, UConn

Sherman Douglas, Syracuse

—–

Obviously that is more than 12, but I’m still trying to figure it out and make the case for them all. Statistically, Notre Dame’s Troy Murphy should make the list but does anyone ever think about him when it comes to greatest players in Big East history? He was Big East Player of the Year twice, but I find him totally unmemorable.

Kerry Kittles? Lawrence Moten? Anyone else not realize that Aaron Gray was 1st team All-Big East twice? Terrifying to think that Luke Harangody was one of only a handful of 3-time All-Big East 1st teamers.

Can we make the case for Sam Young? Should I include 2-year players to include guys like Allen Iverson, Dejuan Blair and Caron Butler?





Let me get this straight, you put Sherman Douglas, Troy Bell, and Brandin Knight over Pearl Washington?…Over Mark Jackson?…Over Reggie Williams?….You better go back and do your homework…

Comment by CJ 11.15.11 @ 10:26 am

Chas, definitely going at it correctly, at least in my mind.

Will you be able to justify your thinking, like no one and dones (totally agree with), and having a “real” team? (again, totally agree with).

Was just wondering, will you be able to start out stating, “Since you wanted a team, then there must be 2 centers etc. etc.”, and also, when you think of the Big East, “you really cannot have any one and done players”.

I know you said you have to justify who you choose, will you be able to explain your paramaters??

Good luck, you certainly deserve it.

Comment by Dan 11.15.11 @ 10:33 am

Chas–

you ARE the no. 1 Pitt fan and BE superstar fan.

How can we forget Gerry McNamara for the guard spot?

Comment by Bossdaws 11.15.11 @ 11:00 am

For the centers, I always though Okafur was over-rated. Don’t get me wrong, he was a great player of course, but UConn was really Ben Gordon’s team.
Anyway, while its hard to put things in context year to year, Alonzo Mourning was an absolute force in his day. I could go into detail if you’d like, but he was the #2 pick in that 1992 draft behind only Shaq and ahead of Laetner. That should put things in perspective. He get’s my vote behind Ewing for Center. No doubt about it.

Comment by PantherP 11.15.11 @ 11:03 am

Walter “the Truth” Berry was about the best forward I ever saw in the Big East, even though he could really only use his left hand. I would also throw John Wallace (Syracuse), Dana Barros (BC) and Eric Murdock (Providence) in the mix.

Comment by GWill 11.15.11 @ 11:08 am

I’m pretty sure Charles Smith played center when he was at Pitt and Jerome Lane played PF. Smith played PF in the NBA though, right?…I thought Brian Shorter was a better overall player than Lane, but Jerome had that signature play and dominance in one area. Shorter was injured his senior year too. Anyway, I wouldn’t take either for this exercise. I would take Reggie Williams…So, yeah, I grew up in the D.C. area and, even though he had a great college career, always thought Michael Smith would be better. I’m not sure he would crack this list. I definitely wouldn’t have him AND Lane.

At guard, I’d have Sleepy Floyd, who could do everything. Probably have him over Knight. I always thought Pearl Washington was overrated, so fine not to have him. Terry Dehere is another guard that I’d probably put over Knight. He could score (isn’t he all-time BE leader?) and played strong defense. Sherman Douglas has to be on this. He’d be my starting PG. By his senior year, he was great. God, the DC/Balt area used to produce so many great players…

Walter Berry was probably one of the five best players in conference history, but I think he only played two years.

Billie Owens, Lawrence Moten, John Wallace. These Syracuse guys were so balleyhooed as h.s. players. I don’t think any of them turned out as good as they were supposed to be. That sort of taints my impression of their careers.

Anyway, in the end, I think I’d probably only have Charles Smith as the lone Pitt rep.

Comment by SilverPanther in NYC 11.15.11 @ 11:12 am

by the way Chas, you’ve just ruined my work productivity for the day. No way I can resist researching this all-time team for ther rest of the day.

Comment by PantherP 11.15.11 @ 11:16 am

what happened to big east expansion no one has joined have they?

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.15.11 @ 11:22 am

Sleepy Floyd and Walter Berry – most definitely.

However, since everone else was probably voting with their heart, then I can understand why.

FWIW: Ewing, Berry, Hamilton, Floyd, Mullins

Comment by wbb 11.15.11 @ 11:41 am

Silver P:

Correct, Smith played center; Lane, Brookin, and Gore were the usual forwards.

Comment by Chuck Morris 11.15.11 @ 11:43 am

Alonzo Mourning
Patrick Ewing
Derrick Coleman
Walter Berry
Jerome Lane
Regge Williams
Chris Mullin
Pearl Washington
Mark Jackson
Sherman Douglas
Allen Iverson
Brandin Knight
could not leave players off could not leave Iverson off this was hard doeing it your way.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.15.11 @ 12:04 pm

Walter Berry would be at the top of my list but only played 2 season. Just watching him warmup was worth the price of admission, which of course was free back in the Fitzgerald days. I would try to find a way to include Pearl and Sleepy. Ed Pinckney also a favorite but probably not quite good enough.

Depressed all over again about those late 80’s hoop teams I loved. Smith, Lane, Gore, Aiken… If only Shorter wasn’t Prop 48, If only Lane didn’t leave early, If only Brookin wasn’t academically ineligible, If only Chris Gatling didn’t transfer to ODU, If only Barry Goheen was never born, If only Chipman and Evans could coach as well as they recruited…

Who else remembers the Demetreus Gore rap video… Pitt on the Rise I think it was called.

Comment by Pitt89 11.15.11 @ 12:13 pm

just glad I know what you look like so I can finally get that Baldwin for heisman shirt

Comment by Dave G. 11.15.11 @ 12:25 pm

C: starter Ewing; bench Mourning
PF: starter D. Coleman; Bench C. Smith (could switch with no problem)
SF: starter Hamilton; bench (this is tough leaving open)
SG: starter Mullin; bench R. Allen
PG: starter B. Knight; Bench Sherman Douglas

Two extras? Kittles & Jerome Lane.

Notes: Earl the Pearl was great, but maybe not a team player, same w Iverson and ‘Melo. Brandon Knight clearly a homer pick, but he deserves on the team, esp if its a “team”. Regarding G.Macnamara, he had a great career but despite the BE tourny run he isn’t better than the other PGs here.
Also, I do not think that the 3yr minimum restricts us too much. Only missing Iverson and ‘Melo, but i dunno if i’d say either would work well on a “team”. Def not Iverson. Melo maybe but he only had 1yr which just isn’t enough i don’t think.

Comment by PantherP 11.15.11 @ 12:33 pm

Thanks for the feedback so far. As I said, this is a rough draft of things. I knew there were players I was leaving out. Elevating too high. Dismissing too casually.

I have a feeling it will be difficult to keep Brandin Knight and Charles Smith on the list. Jerome Lane remains a keeper, though.

Comment by Chas 11.15.11 @ 1:47 pm

WVU lost to kent state it was on espn.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.15.11 @ 1:58 pm

BB on espn all day so far this is great. i watched wvu kent state game memphis vers belmont on now.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.15.11 @ 2:21 pm

Wow, all of you, forgot all about him. Walter Berry, one the best players I’ve ever seen. Oh, I know, lots of his game could be picqued apart I’m sure, but, I remember watching him, and it seemed like he would take off from the top of the key and be at the hoop in a second.

Comment by Dan 11.15.11 @ 2:26 pm

Thinking of old players, no help to you Chas, anyone remember Lawrence Funderburke, Ohio State???

Another amazing player to me, as I remember!

Comment by Dan 11.15.11 @ 2:28 pm

another pretty good players not mentioned …
Ed Pickney, Villanova
John Duren – GTown
Vonteego Cummings – Pitt
who was the guard for UConn that played with Okefor — he is still in the pros.

Comment by wbb 11.15.11 @ 2:43 pm

Chas what happened to big east expansion i have been looking on all sites no one has a clue what is goin on it was to happen last week what is going on do you know.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.15.11 @ 2:45 pm

We forgot Ron Seikaly and John Bagley from bc Bagley was very good how could we leave him off

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.15.11 @ 3:03 pm

“I have a feeling it will be difficult to keep Brandin Knight and Charles Smith on the list. Jerome Lane remains a keeper, though.’

Hey Chas, Since your the Pitt representative for biggest Big East fan you need to have a couple of homer picks on your list…
Also not like you have a chance in hell to win this thing…(you lost when Pitt had the press conference to announce the ACC move) so don’t go down with out giving Pitt players some kudos.

Comment by milo bloom 11.15.11 @ 3:36 pm

Harangody and Murphy are tough…because both had long careers (albeit at ND) and were highly touted. Not mentioning them cause they are forgettable in every fashion. Good luck getting some of our boys on there!

Comment by PaulyP 11.15.11 @ 4:09 pm

@FRANK. you know that Missouri is officially in the SEC, correct??

Big 12 needs to know what WVU is doing.

WVU and Big East suing each other, haven’t heard about that lately.

A lot of the teams, are waiting on the Big East/WVU escapades before they tell the Big East they are coming.

Also, the BCS is talking about doing away with the BCS system starting in 2014. Possibly going strictly by rankings.

This would be huge, because there would no longer be BCS only conferences. Possibly it could help Cuse and Pitt, and for that matter, WVU get the hell out early.

Who knows.

Comment by Dan 11.15.11 @ 4:18 pm

@wbb… I believe Ben Gordon is the UConn guard you are trying to think of.

Comment by Pitt89 11.15.11 @ 4:18 pm

was Ben Gordon mentioned? How about Caron Butler and Donyell Marshall

Comment by wbb 11.15.11 @ 4:19 pm

Small clarification, sorry, it’s the way I am. Above post, I was saying “all of you”, for reminding me about Walter Berry. Not “how could all of you forget about him”. You guys reminded me about him. I know, I’m nuts.

Comment by Dan 11.15.11 @ 4:26 pm

Chas, you look shockingly just like I imagined you would. Weird… I think I hear The Twilight Zone theme song playing in the background.

Comment by Digdug(Formerly Dugdog) 11.15.11 @ 4:30 pm

No one has any all time Big East love for Chad Varga? Ha ha! Someone already said it but I think you have to put Alonzo Mourning on the list, he was a beast. What about Sean Miller? Kid could play….plus he had that Johnny Carson segment when he was a young kid.

Comment by CJK 11.15.11 @ 5:47 pm

Chas I think your list is pretty complete. I won’t even try to come up with a better list because I cannot go as far back with the names with any confidence so I concede to you. I agree for the most part with your rule about only using 3-year+ players, but I think the only exception you should make for that is to include Carmelo on your list. It was only one year, but he took Syracuse to a National Championship and he averaged a double-double. If anyone deserves exempt status from the rule it is him.

Comment by NickW 11.15.11 @ 5:51 pm

Darren Morningstar.

Comment by TX Panther 11.15.11 @ 5:54 pm

Don’t forget this shoe-less wonder:

link to youtube.com

Comment by steve 11.15.11 @ 5:58 pm

My first thought was ‘where’s Dwayne Wade’? but Marquette didn’t joint til 2 years after he left. I would find consider a spot for Seikely as he was a dominant college player. . . maybe even Carmello Anthony — he only played on year but he Cuse to a national title, so it was a REALLY good year.

Thank you for one omission . . . that’s right Hoopies . . . you’ve been Pittsnoggled!

Comment by Ghost of Hornman 11.15.11 @ 6:22 pm

Center – Charles Smith & Dejuan Blair
Power Forward – Jerome Lane
Point Guard – Brandon Knight
Shooting Guard – 1st team Ashton Gibbs

Comment by Justinian 11.15.11 @ 6:45 pm

All Pitt Team

Center
1st team – Charles Smith
2nd team

Comment by Justinian 11.15.11 @ 6:47 pm

All Pitt Team

Center
1st Team – Charles Smith
2nd Team – DeJuan Blair, sorry DeJuan you didn’t stay 4 years
3rd team – Sam Clancy

Power Forward
1st Team – Jerome Lane led the nation in rebounding 2 consecutive years
2nd Team – tie Sam Young & Chevon Troutman
3rd Team – Brian Shorter

Point Guard
1st Team – Brandon Knight
2nd Team – Levance Fields
3rd Team – Shawn Miller

Shooting Guard
1st Team – Ashton Gibbs
2nd Team – Jason Matthews
3rd Team -Ronald Ramone

3 Guard/small forward
1st team – Jaron Brown
2nd Team – Demetrious Gore
3rd Team – Gilbert Brown

Comment by Justinian 11.15.11 @ 7:05 pm

Slightly off topic..but I have three tickets (with parking pass) for the upcoming Pitt/LaSalle game on the 22nd. Center Court 5 rows above the zoo. Contact me at jeffrealtor@hotmail.com if you are interested.

Comment by Jeff in CPa 11.15.11 @ 7:15 pm

ALL PITT team 12 players 2 centers Sam Clancy and Melvin Bennett.
PF Jerome Lane Dejuan Blair Charles Smith and shorter.
SF Billy Knight. Sam young D Gore
guards Brandin Knight Shawn Miller Fields

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.15.11 @ 7:49 pm

All BE Pittsburgh area team:

DeJuan Blair
Herb Pope
DJ Kennedy
Ron Rowan
Sean Miller
Swin Cash

Comment by wbb 11.15.11 @ 7:53 pm

wbb, Swain Cash was a heck of player. My daughter played against her in high school when Swin Cash was a sophmore. Swin was all over the court and McKeesport lost the game, but you could see even then her athleticism and how good she would eventully be.

Comment by Justinian 11.15.11 @ 7:59 pm

I believe Cash was on 3 NCAA championship teams and 3 or 4 WNBA title teams … this was no accident

Comment by wbb 11.15.11 @ 8:02 pm

Frank, I can’t belive that I forgot about Billy Knight and Melvin Bennett. A Braddock kid and a City League kid, both growing up here locally. I guess I had a “Perry like” brain freeze.

Comment by Justinian 11.15.11 @ 9:39 pm

Chas, you crack me up!
I must say, too, that you’re looking pretty sharp in those glasses, and you certainly present with some intelligence (compared to the rest of the lot) — i.e., balking at the question presented because it’s incomprehensibly elementary; I mean, you are a participant in this contest so the question posed regarding ‘what makes you the biggest BEAST fan’ is pretty redundant, and accordingly, you look rightfully perplexed why anyone would ask you such a question at media day…
I think that the competition, at this point, favors Hering (Cuse) — how many times did we see-hear from her in that short segment anyway? Irregardless, I think any participant representing ‘defector’ school is decidedly a non factor at this point in the contest. Too bad, really.

Comment by Neil 11.15.11 @ 10:11 pm

this pains me to bring up but Kemba Walker put that uconn team on his back last year and led them to the BE and national championship titles.
He would be one of my guards.

Comment by pittfan92 11.15.11 @ 10:18 pm

TX Panther, thanks for the laugh!! One of my fondest college memories was, uh… borrowing… a quarter keg from a certain loping, arrogant former Pitt center’s apartment when we ran out of beer at my friend’s party, which was being held just above the one in which said center resided.

Comment by Carmen 11.15.11 @ 10:35 pm

Justinian.. another player from the mid to late 70’s needs mentioned… Larry Harris was a 6’6″ small forward who had an absolutely sweet stroke from downtown..unfortunately for him he played in an era prior to the 3 point line.

Comment by The Turk 11.15.11 @ 10:38 pm

Turk, Yes you’re right he was a scoring machine. Larry Harris was a smooth shooter. When I look back, there were alot of good ball players to play for Pitt.

Comment by Justinian 11.15.11 @ 11:12 pm

In my own humble and often erroneous opinion.

All Pitt Team

Center
1st Team – Charles Smith
2nd Team – DeJuan Blair
3rd team – Sam Clancy

Power Forward
1st Team – Brian Shorter
2nd Team – Jerome Lane
3rd Team – Chevy Troutman

3 Guard/small forward
1st team – Billy Knight
2nd Team – Sam Young (He didn’t truly excel until he moved to the 3)
3rd Team – Jaron Brown

Shooting Guard
1st Team – Jason Matthews
2nd Team – Ashton Gibbs (will probably move to 1st after this year)
3rd Team – tie Vonteego Cummings & Curtis Aiken

Point Guard
1st Team – Sean Miller
2nd Team – Brandon Knight (Can’t argue with anyone who puts him first because of the giant leap forward the team took under his leadership)
3rd Team – Levance Fields

Honorable Mention: Demetrius Gore, Darelle Porter, Bobby Martin, Melvin Bennett, Larry Harris, Aaron Gray and many others I’m forgetting or who were before my time

Comment by Bowling Green Panther 11.16.11 @ 12:09 am

Jerome Lane led the Nation in Rebounding. Yes just not the BigEast, BUT THE NATION. AND AS A SOPHOMORE AND A JUNIOR !!

And he broke the backboard which made Bill Raftery famous(send it in Jerome !) And he owned Derrick Coleman of Cuse, case closed.

ALSO any ALL-TIME PITT BIGEAST TEAM HAS TO HAVE, THE ONLY PITT PLAYER TO LEAD THE BIGEAST IN SCORING.

That being the one and only Clyde Vaughn, who if they had 3 pointers back then, he would have averaged 30+ ppg.

DeJuan Blair has to be on no less than 2nd team All Big-East as he totally manhandled the whole league as both a freshmen and sophomore. (and should have been a 1rst round if not lottery pick)

Brian Shorter took on both Mourning & Mutombe and still got his 20 & 10 so he has to be at least 3rd team.

Charles Smith, George Allen ( most awesome dunk over Patrick Ewing EVER) and Curtis Aiken deserve more than a mention. And of course the guard that re-launched Pitt into national prominence, Brandon Knight.

Sorry guys but Larry Harris & Sam Clancy and PITT’s ONLY ONE & DONE player, Melvin Bennett were ALL PRE-BIGEAST.

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 1:07 am

Greatest name in Big East history (and pretty damn good player): God Shammgod

Comment by San Diego Panther 69 11.16.11 @ 1:18 am

Best Pitt player ever (slightly before Big East): Don Hennon

Comment by San Diego Panther 69 11.16.11 @ 1:19 am

And of course if w’re talking All-PITT team, even pre-BigEast. One would have to include two of PITT’s best players EVER on the 1rst team.

Billy Knight at Forward (star of Pitt’s other Elite 8 team(1974, lost to National Champion NC State) and best PITT pro player EVER)

Don Hennon at Guard (held most Pitt scoring records until very recently)

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 1:19 am

Yeah Don Hennon was slightly pre-BigEast and slightly pre-Eastern 8. In fact he was like… way back in the late 1950’s. And he was my mother’s Doctor and when she told him, her son (me) knew about him, he was amazed.

Hey, what can I say, I also know about Pitt’s undefeated, un-scored upon team of 1910 and the Pitt ‘fighting dentists’, who were also undefeated. Not to mention, Pitt’s Dream Backfield of the 1930’s who played in several Rose Bowl games.

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 1:27 am

I don’t usually kick in with BB stuff but you have to have Chris Mullin in there as well as Sleepy Floyd.

Forget scoring, which they both did, but those two guys took over games and ran their teams on the court to perfection.

Mullin reminded me a lot of Larry Bird in that he was always where the ball was – on both offense and defense. When a rebound came out it was like he could just sense where it would go beforehand… even if it bounced out at some weird angle.

Comment by Reed 11.16.11 @ 7:25 am

change your rules, include iverson! You must!!!

Comment by mike 11.16.11 @ 7:55 am

San Diego Panther 69,k I suggest that you look on the current St John’s roster for the best name in the BE …. and no, it is not a misprint

Comment by wbb 11.16.11 @ 8:27 am

Iverson was not a great college player … yes, he did show a lot of natural ability but his style was much more pertinent to the pro game with 24 second clock and one-on-one play

Comment by wbb 11.16.11 @ 8:35 am

Bowling Green Panther, I defer to you on your picks on the All Pitt Team. However I respectfully disagree with Shawn Miller over Brandon Knight. I think Brandon Knight is the best point gaurd ever to play the point at Pitt. In retrospect, I agree with your placement of Sam Young at the 3 spot. Now that I have had more time to think about the all Pitt Team, I agree with your assessment on the power forward, and 3 guard/small forward positions. Good job.

Comment by Justinian 11.16.11 @ 9:02 am

Emel, we’re putting together the “All Pitt Team”, not just the “Big East All Pitt Team”. Because any discussion of an all Pitt team without Billy Knight, who predated Pitt’s joining the Big East, would be an injustice. Therefore, it’s ok for us to put Billy Knight and Sam Clancy on the team.

Comment by Justinian 11.16.11 @ 9:10 am

Is this chick D-T-F?

Comment by Yup 11.16.11 @ 9:49 am

Totally confused. The Pitt Web site is saying the game tonight is on ESPNU, but the ESPN Web site says it’s the Ohio v BG football game. Which is correct?

Comment by Carmen 11.16.11 @ 9:51 am

never saw Don Hennon play (even though I grew up pretty close to his hometown) but I have read and have been told that if the 3-point line was in effect when he played, he would have all of the scoring records, and have been told that he was a great ballhandler .. but not sure about his defense.

I do know that he was 1st team all-american in late 50s along side the likes of Jerry West and Oscar Robertson.

I consider Billy Knight to be the best ever from my observation which goes back to mid 60s

Comment by wbb 11.16.11 @ 9:56 am

game is on ESPNU

Comment by wbb 11.16.11 @ 9:57 am

Ohio-BG is on ESPN. Pitt, ESPNU

Comment by velvil 11.16.11 @ 9:58 am

@wbb, Gods’gift, Sir’Dominic or Moe???? LOL!!

Comment by Dan 11.16.11 @ 9:59 am

Oh Ok, All-Time PITT Teams

1rst Team
Center – Charles Smith
Forward – Billy Knight
Forward – Jerome Lane
Guard – Don Hennon
Guard – Charley Hyatt

2nd Team
Center – DeJuan Blair
Forward – Sam Young
Forward – Clyde Vaughn
Guard – LeVance Fields
Guard – Brandin Knight

3rd Team
Center – Aaron Gray
Forward – Sam Clancy
Forward – Brian Shorter
Guard – Sean Miller
Guard – Carl Krauser

4rth Team
Center – Bobby Martin
Forward – Larry Harris
Forward – Ricardo Greer
Guard – Jason Matthews
Guard – Vonteego Cummings

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 11:11 am

Dan take your pick …. I was originally referring to God’sgift Achiuwa but if you think Sir’Dominic Pointer is better, fine.

Note that these both are real first names .. and not nicknames.

Comment by wbb 11.16.11 @ 11:13 am

Ha ha, ya, figured that was the one wbb!!! Good stuff!!

Comment by Dan 11.16.11 @ 11:35 am

If you saw Sam Clancy play you would not put him on 3rd team.
He is first team as is melvin bennett.
I was there the night he out played and dominated
sam bowie who was 7 foot 1 and sam was 6 foot 5.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.16.11 @ 12:25 pm

Wow! Some great names and great memories of Pitt basketball here. Surprised that no one mentioned Julius Page, at least for honorable mention if not the All-Dunk team.

Comment by TampaT 11.16.11 @ 12:41 pm

@FRANKCAN

Yea I had a tough time deciding on Sam Young or Sam Clancy for 2nd team. It could have been the other way just as easy. I decided Young’s team was a lot better and he was drafted by the NBA(like Clancy), but he made the team(Clancy did not) and was actually starting for an NBA team that made the playoffs last year. I also thought of putting Clancy at Center since he did play some Center for Pitt since he was such a great rebounder.

Couldn’t put Melvin Bennett on any of the first 4 teams, as he only played one year at Pitt(and left for the ABA, 1rst round draft pick) and while he was very good, he still ONLY averaged around 11 points a game as a true freshmen.
Just who would you delete at Center? All the ones I listed score over a 1000 points at PITT, with Smith being PITT’s alltime leading scorer with over 2000 points. Only Smith & Clyde Vaughn scored over 2000 points at PITT.

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 12:03 pm

Oh and actually I played against the great Sam Clancy & the 1976 PA. AAA (before Quad A)State Champion, Fifth Ave. High School, who went UNDEFEATED that year. One of PA’s greatest High School teams. So believe me, that was a real tough choice.

link to pahoops.org

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 12:14 pm

Tonight’s game isn’t not going to be easy.
Especially with the way we played against Rider the other nite.

Casper Ware was the BigWest Player of the year last year. And he is a player, coming from Watts, LA.
Big test for Woodall tonite.

Long Beach State also starts 3 other senior starters and they all can play.

So Panthers beware, be focused and be better.

And I be… Emel. haha

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 12:22 pm

EMel only 11 points but he was first or second in the nation in rebounds at 6 foot 7 and was good enough to be a first round chose and i am thinking what they did for pitt not in the pros.

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.16.11 @ 12:38 pm

agree that tonight’s game may be much closer than what many might expect. Long Beach St has much more experience, coming of a 22-11 record, than Pitt.

More importantly, they seem to have a very talented, quick backcourt … doesn’t seem like a favorable match-up. Not sure how good defensively LBS guards are but maybe this will be a good time for our guards to start feeding the low post if they cannot get open shots.

Comment by wbb 11.16.11 @ 12:50 pm

How hot is Ben Howland’s seat in LA? Middle Tennessee State? Ugh…

Comment by ECH 11.16.11 @ 12:50 pm

Frank – are you thinking of Pitt’s upset over Duke and Mike Gminski (1978)? I don’t recall Clancy going up against Bowie in college. I was just starting to attend Pitt hoops when Clancy was in school, and I remember the Duke upset (Pitt lost the next year at Fitzgerald), but I don’t remember them playing Kentucky in either Clancy’s junior or senior years.

Clancy was not the most skilled player, but he was an absolute beast on the boards and could simply take over games with his physicality.

Comment by Pantherman13 11.16.11 @ 12:57 pm

I thought Clancy was before Bowie as well.

@ Justinian, I just follwed your framework and still completely forgot Clyde Vaughn which is unexcusable. Don’t really disagree with Knight over Miller. I don’t think you can go wrong either way.

A lot of great memories and players. Although I loved Lane and agree that he had maybe the single most signature highlight in BE history, I thought Shorter consistently put up much, much better offensive numbers.

Comment by Bowling Green Panther 11.16.11 @ 1:15 pm

Chas, you should consider including Dwayne ‘Pearl’ Washington of Syracuse on your Guards list.

My All-Time Big East list:

1rst Team

Center – Patrick Ewing
Forward – Derrick Coleman
Forward – Chris Mullin
Guard – Ray Allen
Guard – Pearl Washington

2nd Team
Center – Alonzo Mourning
Forward – Carmelo Anthony
Forward – Walter Berry
Guard – Mark Jackson
Guard – Troy Bell

3rd team
Center – Charles Smith
Forward – Reggie Williams
Forward – Jerome Lane
Guard – Sherman Douglas
Guard – John Bagley

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 1:40 pm

Chas, agree on your criteria but think you are missing the most important criteria – who are the guys that were the winners, leading teams to BE titles or national championships. Kemba Walker, Melo who I hate, Derrick Coleman who was on the cuse team that lost is 1987…

And for you guys mentioning Vonteego Cummings – really? He underacheived here after coming in with hype.

Comment by pittfan92 11.16.11 @ 1:42 pm

Your right BGPanther.

Brian Shorter was 1rst team All-BigEast his sophomore & junior years and he was a much better offensive player than Lane. Lane was the better rebounder by stats, but in the gym when Shorter was a ineligible freshmen, Shorter could score over and thru both Smith & Lane(just like he did over Mourning & Mutombo, when they were both in the game). If he had been eligible that year, no telling how good PITT could have been, for that was the team that lost to Vandy in the NCAA’s.
(we also lost super sub Rod Brookin in the 2nd half of that year due to academics)

Another ‘what if ‘ moment in Pitt annals.

Comment by EMel 11.16.11 @ 1:49 pm

@ BGP… I agree Shorter > Lane.

I was there from ’85-’89 and was in the house when Lane brought down the backboard. Jerome was a beast on the boards, but his mid-range game was virtually non-existent and he couldn’t hit a foul shot to save his life. He never should have left early for the NBA but he never got along with Evans.

Shorter was a much greater offensive threat (although Jerome was a much better ball handler). Heck the Big East even renamed an award so they could give it to him. They changed the Freshman of the Year award to the Newcomer of the Year award because he missed his freshman year due to Prop 48. If Shorter didn’t get sick/injured his senior year he’s likely a top 10 draft pick averaging 20 and 10 in the BE.

All that said, I could really go either way. Since Lane played 3 years and Shorter really only played 2 effective years, Lane lead the nation in rebounding twice and of course Jerome had the signature moment.

Comment by Pitt89 11.16.11 @ 1:53 pm

Bowie was a freshmen at kentucky 1979 80
sam was also 79 to 80 i think it may have been a all star game. but it was long ago

Comment by FRANKCAN 11.16.11 @ 2:04 pm

@EMel… I lamented that Pitt team earlier in the thread. Shorter was Prop 48 and Brookin also academically ineligible. Plus many people forget that Chris Gatling was also at Pitt (’86-87 I think) but never played and transferred to ODU.

Speaking of Brookin… he provided probably my 2nd favorite Pitt hoops moment between ’85-’89 when he hit the dagger 3 from the corner late in the game in Jan ’89 to seal the win over Oklahoma and Billy Tubbs. Probably the 2nd loudest I ever heard the Fieldhouse next to Jerome’s dunk.

Comment by Pitt89 11.16.11 @ 2:18 pm

Turns out NBE Basketball already did this excercise…

link to nbebasketball.com

Although Charles Smith at #16 is a travesty. And they have Shorter slightly above Lane.

Comment by Pitt89 11.16.11 @ 3:57 pm

EMel, Pitt89, Justinian, et al:

Can’t agree any stronger with you guys. That 86-87 team (think that was the year) is still the biggest Pitt BB let down for me although others have come close. Despite missing Brookin for most of the season due to grades we were a #2 seed. We beat eventaul national champ Kansas once. We were missing Shorter due to Prop 48 – what kind of a difference do you think that would have been to have had another low post offensive option besides Smith. That is still the best Pitt team in my mind.

Should have been:
Miller, Mathews, Gore, Lane & Smith
Porter, Cavanaugh, Brookin, Shorter & Martin off the bench.

Remember that game against OU well. What did Shorter have? 37 & 12 maybe – monster game. Although I thought our comeback and upset of Georgetown that year (or next?)was just as huge.

Comment by Bowling Green Panther 11.16.11 @ 7:51 pm

As far as the all BE team, I really like Emel’s list. Both in terms of names and placement. Iverson, Seikaly, Hamilton, Gordon & Dana Barros might sneak on my list somewhere. MIGHT.

I think Smith is the one Pitt player who has to make it.

Althought I’ve stated my reasons for Shorter over Lane, I agree with Chas that Lane’s signature dunk will resonate stronger than Shorter’s numbers with the rest of the non-Pitt BE crowd.

Comment by Bowling Green Panther 11.16.11 @ 7:59 pm

[...] everyone for all the feedback from the first draft of my All-Big East dream team. It’s been fun trying to put this together. And a real pain trying to finish with a complete [...]


Powered by WordPress © PittBlather.com