Sacked 34 times! Makes me sick. Thats a lot of dead drives.

BTW WVU supposedly is in the Big 12 now again and SEC mistakenly put on their website last night Mizzo is the 14th member. Amateurs!

Reed: I guess this all means that Tino needs to run more and drop back less, which you know I totally agree with.

The fact that TG’s offense is centered on a effective running QB also makes me understand why everyone is so excited about Voytik coming in next year. Comparing him to our other three QBs is pretty telling from a raw talent standpoint.

40 time
Sunseri – 4.76
Anderson – 4.70
Myers – 4.89
Voytik – 4.59

Voytik’s time is more in the range of guys like Robert Griffin (4.52), Darron Thomas (4.58) and Russell Wilson (4.59) than our current QBs’.

His Shuttle (quickness test) speed is 4.28 compared to Anderson’s 4.57. And we think Anderson is quick.

Of course, we’ll have to see how this talent translates to college ball, how well he can throw at a college level, and how quickly he grasps the offense, but the speed factor is exciting. And it’s what TG keeps saying we need more of for true High Octane football at Pitt.

I hope he at least gets a shot at competing for some playing time next year and isn’t automatically relegated to redshirt status because of his late start.

WVU is officially gone. Let the scarecrows commence to eat the carcus formerly known as the Big Least.

Huggins is gonna love those Texas referees

Holgerson will be showing Huggins some good Texas and Oklahoma watering holes

Having a QB who can run is a nice bonus but not necessary…just need one who can avoid a majority of sacks — which Tino can’t. 40 times are not relevant when decision times are slow and ‘deer in headlights’ syndrome kicks in.

He may be sort of quick when timed in a straight line at practice, but under pressure his mind appears to blank out and he freezes up. This is not uncommon among regular people, but not what your looking for in a high level QB.

How many times in the past two years have we seen him just stop in his tracks as a defender approaches, like a confused chicken when confronted by a fox? Dan Marino and Dan Fouts likely had slow 40 times, but their quick feet in the pocket, great awareness and decision making (not to mention rocket arms), and quick releases almost always got them out of trouble.

In the end, its simply the results, not the measurables or the ‘system’.

Doug Williams, John Elway, and Steve Young were very good running QBs in their earlier years but didn’t win jack until they calmed down and mastered the many other more important aspects of good QB play. IMHO, I don’t believe Tino can do that because he doesn’t have those gears, so we’re wasting our time waiting for him to ‘get to his next level’…as always, hope I’m wrong about that, but don’t think I am sadly.

Give Meyers a shot and open it up for Voytik and everyone else and his brother next year.

A running QB is VERY necessary in this offense. What the hell are you taking about? And how many people have to tell you that Myers stinks before you start getting it?

why do people on this site so often go to hyperbole? To me, this is a weakness of many of the contributors here. How could Myers be termed to ‘stink’ whan all he has played is two running plays. He is apparently not a fit for this offense (that he didn’t choose when he opted for Pitt), but the word ‘stink’ is not apt.

Just because your anonymity is preserved here doesn’t mean you have to resort to such disparaging terms especially when defining a 19 or 20 year old.

Here is the problem in a nut shell, Sunseri holds the frickin ball too long!!!! TG is so frustrated with that issue he’d have pulled all his hair out by now if he didn’t keep it in such a short crewcut. That is what Graham is referring to constantly when he demands that Tino just needs to “run the system”.

When Sunseri is quick on the draw a lot of the other negative BS falls away and the offense can actually move the ball.

This is an interesting point in the season for the Pitt offense now. With Ray Graham out the opposing defense has no one left to key on. We’ve lost our big gun and now we absolutely need to “run the system” effectively to be able to utilize the remaining weapons avaiable.

One of those is Tino’s running ability or should I say the QB’s running ability. IMO, he is slow out of the starting gate, especially when he starts “thinking”. If plays can be scripted to simplify this issue and take the thinking part out of the equation, Tino CAN gain yards with his legs and be a weapon to keep things changed up.

An even better option may be to begin utilizing Jones more in various packages to see what he can do on the run, and on top of that, the kid has an arm too with two TDs through the air to his credit this season.

In any case, this offense continues to evolve, now out of necessity. I still think that we can win games w/o Graham in there but we must do it Todd Graham’s way and do it QUICK on every play. Therein lies the advantage. If/when Tino gets that concept through his thick head the faster this offense starts moving the ball better and less sacks will result when the ball is quickly gone from his hand if the called pass play isn’t there.

He got the ball out quickly the other night when his 1st or 2nd read is an open receiver. Jis problem seems to be when these guys aren’t open .. he either freezes or thinks he must make a play.

One more thing … on 3rd down he should try to make a play (sack or not) since throwing the ball away is foolish. I remember 3 or 4 sacks vs Utah (both QBs) were on 3rd down which I feel is justified.

P.S. .. throwing the ball away on 3rd down may not be folish if in FG range

Since Calvin McGee and TG to some degree are disciples of Rich Rod, who is credited with creating the zone read offense, this helped me understand things a bit better: link to varsityblue.blogspot.com

Of note is this: “Most important to the smooth operation of the zone-read is not a quarterback who is blazing fast, but a signal caller who can make the right decision with the ball, and can at least do a little damage with his feet.”

It speaks to what several here have said about Tino’s decision-making, or lack thereof, at times.

Also, the “blazing fast” comment was written before they discovered what Denard Robinson could do in this package. It may not be necessary, but it sure helps.

Keeping in mind that a running QB is only one component of this offense (and not the entire system ala RichRod), I think Tino has and can be pretty effective as a runner. If he had to line up every down and run an option, there’s no way. I can’t say with any insider certainty, but many of his sacks seem to be based on the routes being run…he seems to be seeing something other than what he’s expecting downfield.
Plain and simple: there have been too many flashes of good play this year to simply write off Tino as not being able to get it done in this offense.
now the coaching decisions…that’s another issue altogether.

Good point, bigslacker. TG’s version does include more passing than Rich Rod’s.

With all the talk about scaling back and simplifying things, I don’t know what true High Octane is supposed to look like. Didn’t see Tulsa much on TV down here.

So is it supposed to be more like read/run/pass and it’s been adjusted to read/run sometimes and just pass other times to accommodate a team made up of kids who primarily played in a pro style offense all of their lives? Who knows? I certainly don’t.

Hey Mike, go fu@k yourself.

Great thoughts.

I decided to explore this by a post because so many PITT fans get caught up in the label “Running Quarterback” and they think that he has to be a Pat White, Denard Robinson type player and they just can’t wrap thier mind around the fact that, for this offense, a QB with running ability fits the bill. they scream to high heaven that Sunseri can’t move the ball with his legs at all when we’ve seen him do it.

But I disagree with Matt N. a bit and say that Graham wants a player that both keeps the run uppermost in his mind and then actually executes it competently. Our only real success offensively has been when our QB has done that. That is strikingly obvious.

Perhaps now that Ray Graham is out it will sink in with Sunseri that we really need him to play QB like he did in those Iowa, USF & UCONN games and help with the run as much as the pass. We may end up depending on it.

I never get caught up in the ‘skill’ stats and player’s times because they are all geared toward what potentials the kid might have and way too often we see that the individual skills don’t come together to produce results at practice or on game day.

Here is a good case in point and this is a true story – a few years ago DW’s staff broke things up with an “Olympic Sports” type session were all the kids competed against each other in certain events for fun during an afternoon. Pat Bostick came in second…yes, second. Dorin Dickerson was first. So 40 times, high jump, etc. don’t really excite me. I will point a lot to statistics of what already transpired in play though as that is a much better indicator.

I guess I’m saying this because Mark Myers is a talented kid in a lot of ways and did run hurdles, etc in High School. But when it came to producing results in this offense in the spring and summer camps he didn’t rise above third string and that was a legitimate placing by the staff. He just couldn’t make things happen with his legs the way Graham wants his QB to.

If Graham wanted a QB out there where one ability, either the pass or the run, was dominate then I’d be writing that Anthony Gonzalez should be getting PT. His pure running ability is the best of all four guys. Just as Myers’s pure passing is the best of all four.

Now, I also get upset when people write that Mark Myers stinks because that just isn’t the case either. Perhaps my writings about him lead some people to infer that and that isn’t what I mean at all and I apologize if it seems that way. The kid has a lot of talent but his strengths and weaknesses just don’t translate to what Graham wants out there for now and , especially I believe, for the future. Put it this way… Trey Anderson wouldn’t be able to compete in DW’s system just as Myers has had a tough time competing in this one… But Myers should have been starting over Sunseri this season had DW not been fired.

I agree that the gameday coaching has been pretty poor. I scratch my head at three of four decisions a game.

I like Graham’s attitude and energy…refreshing change of pace from sullen, slightly grumpy Wanny…though he had his good qualities.

My problem with this slavish devotion to coach Graham’s system: what good teams has he beaten yet in his career? ND was pretty weak last year, like they have been since Holtz left…and he beat up on Conference USA or whoever for a few years…great. Did he ever beat Texas, or Auburn, or USC, or even Texas Tech, or UNC?

Not knocking the guy as Tulsa and Rice clearly didn’t have A level recruits, but why does his ‘system’ get an automatic pass when he’s never had a big win?! Correct me if he has…but it seems Boise and Texas Tech, and some other similar schools have more to crow about than Tulsa ever did…despite gaudy statistics.

It was clearly time for Wanny to go and I wish Graham great success, but not sure why so many posters on this site give the guy an unqualified pass to do whatever the hell he wants and implement his ‘system’ despite the talent on hand, like he’s Pete Carroll or Jim Harbaugh.

Go beat Oregon and Washington 4 years in a row and then you can implement your ‘system’ without regard for anything else, but not until then it seems. Enthusiasm and well detailed plans are nice, but no substitute for winning.

Matt N. – Graham was hired by the PITT administration specifically because of his ‘system’ and the results he got from it. They knew coming in that he was going to institute it as soon as possible.

It isn’t like he was the only coach available after Haywood got fired. I’m sure PITT would have loved it if Chris Peterson from Boise State was interested. And we had Bradley who wanted the job and other more traditional coaches also – PITT chose Graham and his offense.

That is why we ‘give him a pass’. Because it is clear that he’s here because his team put up lots of points at Tulsa and we think he can do it here too. We also realize that for his offense to run as designed he needs to have personnel who are both suited for it, which he is recruiting for, and experienced in it, which a full season of camps, practices and games will do also.

As far as “Enthusiasm and well detailed plans are nice, but no substitute for winning” there is absolutely no guarantee that even if Graham had changed his offensive approach drastically we’d have any more wins then we do now. Remember – he started “simplifying” the offense before the USF game… the result… two wins and two debacles.

Look at it this way – the defense lost the Iowa game; the ND game was a close, hard fought loss to a rival and RU & Utah were the result of their DL & LBs being in our backfield as much as our running backs… having a WR who could actually catch a pass wouldn’t have hurt earlier this year either.

And this system helped Ray Graham to rack up 958 yards in seven games.

Hell, losing our two best OL and giving up 35 sacks in eight games hurt more then the change of systems. Having a QB who is the definition of Hot and Cold impacts also, the HC never know if Jekyll or Hyde is going to show up.

Remember – Graham inherited talent that won only seven games last regular season. It isn’t as if these kids were world beaters anyway and combined with a complete change in coaching staff it is understandable that we are having a rough road so far. IMO it may even have been just as disappointing a season had DW stayed and run the same program as he had in the past.

We are actually outscoring the 2010 team, 26.5 ppg to 26.3 ppg as hard as that may be to believe, so I think it is way too easy to point only to Graham and his offensive approach and say that is the reason we are losing games.

Lou Holtz [love him or hate him] was right about one thing, Tino was much better rolling out rather than dropping straight back.

Joel, Sunseri has always been pretty good at rolling out.

He seems to do better when he’s caught up in the physical act of playing QB rather than dropping back and having to think.

Reed, agree with some of your points…some are just unprovable and therefore your opinion vs mine. I have no doubt if Graham had exactly who he wanted, or close enough to it, his system would yield good results. But that’s my entire point: you work with what you got and make adjustments when needed. Tino clearly, to me, is the only reason we’ve lost games this year — not the defense or receivers. But I agree to disagree with you.

I was watching the Michigan game today, as they pounded Purdue, and one of the announcers said Brady Hoke wanted to install a pro-style offense and get back to more traditional Michigan-style “pounding” the other teams defense…but he couldn’t as he was left with DickRod’s spread option guys on offense and smaller lineman on both sides of the ball — and here’s the kicker! — so he therefore worked with what he had available and altered his plans to suit the talent on hand.

Oh yeah, Hoke is a first year coach who was far less ballyhooed than Graham…and he’s 7-1 now, challenging for the Big Ten title, and nationally ranked…and Michigan kinda sucked last year. That, my friend, is coaching.

Repeating one of my favorite football quotes from decades ago, from Bum Phillips of the Oilers on Chuck Noll: “He can take his’n and beat your’n, then take your’n and beat his’n.” Of course, this is lost on most ‘system’ guys.

Again, I wouldn’t get to worked up about Sunseri’s performance against UConn.

He threw for 419 yards, yet we only scored 28 points. That’s not good. Uconn’s defense was pathetic, probably the worst one we played since Buffalo.

Again Western Michigan scored 38 points against Uconn and their QB threw for 479 yards and 5 TD’s.

And Geno Smith threw for 450 yards and 4 TD’s in scoring 43 points I believe, in a rout.

Sunseri played well, but again the competition wasn’t legit. Let me see it against a legit team.

It won’t happen because he can’t stretch the field vertically and why Uconn didn’t play a defensive scheme similar to Rutgers or Utah is mind boggling. Thanks Paul Pasqualoni. Maybe it helped that he’s a paisan. lol

no no no no no. do NOT give myers a shot. he’s bigger, slower, and incapable of running… which is y he hasn’t played. if he were more capable than Tino he would’ve been the starter. how can u say play another qb when Tino had a record setting night? all Pitt needs from tino is consistency and they can win out.

emel. Pitt scored 35 points and it would’ve been upper 40s if ray Graham stays in there. shoulda woulda coulda though. Tino is capable of running this offense effectively and if he gets the ball out of his hands quickly like he did against uconn then blitz or not he’ll be successful.

Matt – that is a good point about UM. However, there are way more examples of first year coaches taking over and completely tanking. He happens both ways. I’m way more concerned about what PITT will do under Graham in 2012 and beyond then I am this season anyway.

EMel, we scored 35 points against UCONN. if you mean we only scored 28 points while Sunseri was playing that would be correct but remember he set that last TD up with an 18 yard pass to our H-Back.

I agree that what we saw out of Sunseri may have had more to do with UCONN then it did with Sunseri and that we won’t see the same level of production from this point out… that would be too much to ask. But, and this has been my contention all along, if the OL can do their job Sunseri can be effective. I just posted this on a message board:

Losing Jacobson and Nix was devastating to the offense mainly because Sunseri really can’t play effectively under pressure. I don’t know how UCONN game planned to have three sacks, I don’t believe the OL miraculously played great last game, but when he has less pressure he plays well. Here are his stats from those two games:

RU – 141 yds 0 TDs and 3 INTs sacked 6-50

UTAH – 38 yds 0 TDs and 0 INTs sacked 7-41

There is a direct correlation there.

But even more telling is when we look at the BCS Sunseri has played “well” in (Iowa, USF & UCONN) he was sacked an average of three times. Those he played poorly in he was sacked an average of six times. Big and dramatic difference really.

Losing our two senior OL and going with some very inexperienced kids sure is one of the reasons we lost some games.

We could come together and play well from here out – our defense is starting to pull their weight and we are still in the BE. But I’m not holding my breath for it.

Hey Mike Clemson runs the exact same offense and their QB does not run, although he appears he could if he had to. Until last night they were 8-0. By the way how do you know Myers stinks have you seen him play? Because he was dropped behind Anderson -on face value I would say anyone playing behind Anderson stinks. A 4star 1st team all Ohio ist team QB, 11rated in the nation must have some upside. If he does I would get the hell away from this coaching staff as soon as possible. At 6’4″ 230lbs. rated 4 strongest arm out of high school he may have potential for the next level. If he does he will never get the coaching he needs to correct the flaws all high school QBs have. Also any QB that comes to Pitt in this system will not have much of a chance to show he can play at the next level. Volychic is coming to Pitt because he knew he could not compete with Chad Kelly (Jim Kelly’s nephew) from Buffalo. Kelly has commited to Clemson and is 6’3″, 220 lbs with legitimate NFL potential. Pitt will never attract a QB with aspirations for the NFL with Graham and no team can go very far without a top notch QB and defense.

Wow – you do tend to fall back on the same old arguments.

Why is it that you continually espouse Myers playing over Anderson but never Myers over Sunseri? After all, Sunseri has sucked just as bad as Anderson did at times.

Could the reason be that Sunseri just put on a running and passing show that Myers might only dream about doing?

You also revert back to the wishing Myers was playing even though you must have seen with your own two eyes what Graham thinks about him as far as getting any substantial playing time.

Damn, even in a blow out win Graham puts in another kid to take snaps and throw TDs. Don’t you think that should convince you that Myers just isn’t in the plans for Graham?

Finally, who cares about what a player may do at the next level when discussing PITT football? We just went through six years where the PITT program was a great stepping stone to the NFL for players and what did that get us? No BE championships, a 7-5 regular season last year and a annual trip to the Beef O’Brady bowl.

We need kids who can contribute at the college level and play well for us now. If that is a 5’9″ Anderson so be it. If your 6’4″ strong arm QB can’t play well enough in the camps, scrimmages and practices to start – then let him get mop up duty and that only because there was an injury to that 5’9″ guy.

Man, we are eight games into a 12 game season and you are still on this old saw. Please just understand that no matter how much you want it to happen – it just isn’t going to.

BTW, he was also a two star, 132nd ranked QB, but keep those blinders on….

This basic argument repeated daily here boils down to: trust the coach unquestioningly vs hope for good results but not afraid to ask questions when things go awry.

Sort of like, Bush must be right, Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and was involved in 9/11 vs hey, let’s not rush to war till we know what the hell is going on?

Yes, a bit dramatic but makes the point I think. Some people are sh@t a## afraid to question authority and some are not. Which one are youse?

I’m not afraid to question authority – but when I have watched Myers practice with my own eyes from the sidelines, I’ve a pretty firm grasp on why Graham has him where he does on the depth chart. Hence my stance on the situation.

Everyone else who is espousing Myers be given playing time are basing their opinions strictly on rating services – and selectively at that.

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