In all the talk about expansiopocolypse, there is one thing that most people on any side of the issue can agree: it sucks to lose rivalry games. Things change. New rivalries develop. New hate. But there is something special about being able to share that hate. Share the rivalry between generations. Comparing. Looking at the history. Taunting someone else of a long past game.
With Pitt heading to the ACC at some point. It looking increasingly likely that West Virginia will head to the Big 12 once Mizzou makes its decision to try their luck in the SEC.
[Brief tangent here on Missouri. The Missouri slow dance to the SEC is succeeding in pissing more people off than I could have expected. Everyone in the Big 12 seems to just want them to stop pretending and get out already so they get the replacement. Everyone in the SEC is hating them for jerking this around and not showing the proper unbrideled lust and desire to be in the SEC like Texas A&M did. And the rest of the country just wants them to make the move so we can forget about them once more.
Honestly, I can’t help but think that the slow move by Mizzou is all orchestrated out of desperation in a fruitless hope that the Big 10 will make an eleventh hour offer. That’s where they really want to go. Where they think they belong. The midwest. Rivalry with Illinois and natural rival with Iowa and old Big 8 foe, Nebraska. If they sign on to the SEC, it is going to be a long-term commitment and they may miss their chance when the next cycle of expansiopocolypse strikes the Big 10. It’s not going to happen. The Big 10 doesn’t need Missouri, and that conference would never do any reacting to what others do (or at least would act like it wouldn’t).]
Now, before West Virginia was about to find that “Get out of jail” card, they were at risk. The Big 12 appeared to favor Lousiville over WVU because of geography, market and even academics. But as usual with the Big 12, Texas had a different preference and dictated it.
Asked why the Big 12 would be upgraded, the official said, “West Virginia has better football than Missouri, better basketball than Missouri, a better budget than Missouri and more passion among its fans than Missouri. They’re better, anyway you turn ’em. The travel’s not good (to Morgantown, W. Va.), but that’s it.”
He added there is support for Louisville, but said a lagging football program hurts its appeal.
The well-placed administrator said Missouri would probably have to remain in the Big 12 next school year because it’s getting so late in the process to find a replacement quickly, and an early Missouri exit could lead to financial liability for that school.
…
A second Big 12 school official told the Statesman he prefers Louisville because of its closer proximity and said travel to West Virginia would make for too big a burden on athletes.
“The only place where there’s an advantage for West Virginia is better football,” the second official said. “Their academics is not as strong. If there’s any thought about what’s best for the student-athlete, we’ll go with Louisville.”
The thing worth noting is that the Big 12 expects Missouri to be stuck in the Big 12 for 2012, simply because of how late things already are and Mizzou may be less willing to cut a huge check to bail early. That does seem likely, and is probably the best for WVU. It is almost November and most of the football schedules for the following season are finished by December — finalized and announced in January.
Given that anything short of complete implosion of the Big East, any poached Big East member — Pitt, Syracuse and probably WVU — are going to be held in the conference for next year. Not even for spite. It’s survival of the conference. They need at least 8 members to be an AQ conference in the BCS. The other potential new members will probably be stuck in their own conferences for another year since they haven’t even gotten formal invites and been able to provide notice to their conferences.
The one thing that will have to be resolved is the future of the Backyard Brawl. Jerry DiPaola reflected on some other foot-in-mouth comments from WVU AD Ollie Luck back in the beginning of October including the need for the Backyard Brawl for Pitt.
“I have not had any discussions with the Pitt folks. I have kind of let them be, quite honestly, with all the activity,” Luck said. “But my sense is they will be interested in maintaining the football rivalry with us. We bring 25,000 fans to Heinz Field. We fill it up. Pitt is not filling up Heinz Field on their own, so that game from a financial perspective is pretty important to them.”
Considering that WVU didn’t use their allotment at Heinz Field last year and Milan-Puskar hasn’t been filling up this year, Luck has been on a roll. DiPaola wonders if comments like that will hurt the chances to keep the Backyard Brawl. Pitt will likely have only 3 open dates for the non-con in football once in the ACC — and if it became a choice between playing ND every year or WVU — personal affronts along with a wash on the financials could send the Brawl into hiatus on the football side.
I doubt stupid words would (we are talking utterances from a Hoopie), but the money/exposure issues might. Playing ND is a national game. It is guaranteed big coverage. The Backyard Brawl is a regional rivalry. It is intense. It is often entertaining. But it is still regional, and takes on slightly less importance when it will no longer relate to the conference standings for either. It goes back to being like Georgia-GT and Clemson-South Carolina.
So, yeah, the Backyard Brawl could fade more easily than we realize. I hope not, though.
The Backyard Brawl is worth keeping — even over Notre Dame. It is a true rivalry and has real hatred and history.
Yes, I know ND and Pitt have now played 67 times. They are tied with Syracuse as Pitt’s 3d most played opponent, behind WVU and Penn St. And for ND, Pitt is fifth on their list behind USC, Purdue, Michigan State and Navy. And fifth is about where Pitt is on the list of teams ND wants to beat in a given season. Let’s also be realistic. Pitt has historically been dominated by the Domers. To the tune of 20-46-1. I can hate the Irish and want to see them beaten badly, but I can’t declare that it is a rivalry.
The Backyard Brawl is a rivalry. It has doomed seasons. Made seasons. The fans get after it. There’s true hate.
Pitt has been very good about keeping rivalry games when it can. Even when there is little reason to do so, and costs the program money. The City Game with Duquesne is a good example. At this point, the game is high risk, low reward for Pitt. Win and Pitt is supposed to, lose and it is a big blow to an at best, middling A-10 school. Beyond that, Pitt has been willing to treat Duquesne like an equal by letting the contest be a home-and-home series — until the recent move to the Con. Giving up a home game to treat them more than fairly and more respect than would be expected. I expect Pitt will make the right decision to try and continue playing WVU in football and basketball.
The good thing with WVU probably heading to the Big 12, is they have less reason to not keep the Backyard Brawl going. Hard feelings over Pitt going to the ACC would be defused. If there really any were, considering WVU was more active than Pitt in trying to get out of the Big East. I think both sides recognize the importance to the fans and the region, and will make sure it continues.
As Pitt fans, we’ve seen the loss of one great, historic rivalry game. I don’t want to see the loss of another.
With all of that, I wouldn’t be shocked if this game goes away for a few years, but I’d be surprised if it didn’t come back.
I believe we should stay with WVU … also remember that ND disn’t sell out Heinz this year, but in fact returned several tickets.
To me, TV exposure and hype is best for Pitt, and in the end all I care about is the success of my alma mater.
Although I wouldnt mind playing WVU in bball.
Good riddance, I say.
No, Pitt fans aren’t perfect and blameless. But it’s a whole different level with the ‘billies.
As for hoops, because of Pitt and Syracuse perennially in the top 10, allready going to be rivalries immediately with UNC, DUKE and Maryland.
Couple teams in the top 10 or top 15 play each other, game of the week.
Just throwing away 100 year rivalry?? No, but I’m ready for some new teams, new colors, new logos!!!
I hope we can continue with PSU, ND or WVU, in that order, if not, my train has allready left the station!!!
That game was a rivary also not as mutch as WVU but still it was one.
Look I get the moving on but let’s not be hypocritical here.
If it’s ok for us to move on from a 90+ year old rivalry, then why wasn’t it ok for PSU?
Just playing Devil’s advocate here…
DaveD
shit or get off the pot. what a pain they are.
And the difference between the psu and the WVU move is that the WVUfans have killed it any way with there crazy gross behaveior iwouldent go to there home games any more who wants to be hit with rocks there is no rivary when you cant go to there games.
or vice versa?
You are entitled to your opinion but I will miss the rivalry, just like I miss the PSU rivalry.
You don’t think that fights don’t happen up on Mount Nittany?
I just think it’s really easy to justify our actions as being just while its exactly why PSU did it…it’s in their own best interest.
As it will be in ours…
DaveD
Pitt will have no such problem fitting into the ACC.
In basketball I would hope we could continue playing West Virginia every year. I see no reason to continue to play Robert Morris every year unless there is some Pittsburgh politics involved.
That stuff did not happen at penn state not that bad .
fights yes but broken car windows pregnant women thrown to the ground a mans eye put out bye thrown quaters please you would go to the game and take a child or your mother with them nut cases they arent fans they are monsters hiting a lady that is with child they have ruined the rivary.
Disappointed, but, as in business, I understood that would be the end of Pitt-PSU.
The only thing that ever raised my ire’, was when someone up there offered a 2 home for one away in PSU’s favor.
We may not have the football program they do, but, we are also not anyone’s lapdog, and whoever told them to go pound salt, glad they did.
I was more upset and jealous that they got into a good conference, than the fact that the rivalry was pretty much dead, in all honesty.
Now, that we landed in a top conference, ya, I’m a bit gleeful, but I would never ask WVU for a 2 for 1.
West Virginia is a different animal, very similar to a Steelers-Browns game up at Cleveland, where it can get downright nasty after a game. Or before or during for that matter.
People going around after the game, especially if they have lost, just looking for trouble.
Hey, can happen anywhere, but, they are a step above, or below, depending how you phrase it!!
However, after going to a Cleveland game two years ago, someone forgot to tell the Cleveland fans anything about this.
Buddy and I were never so happy to get to the car. Walking through the lot, several people brushed our elbows and turned around and started mouthing off, “you say something, man?”
We’re both big enough guys, but, in our 40’s we are past that stage of our lives.
Honestly and truly, no exaggeration whatsoever, if you wanted to get into a fight, it was there for you.
My last away Steeler game, and frankly, I’m sure our fans are no better to other teams that come to Heinz. The remote and easy chair do me just fine for pro ball!!
I would much rather see WVU every other year and they sell tickets as well.
Hey, maybe everything will work out and ND will end up in the ACC.
I can live without playing a school that beats up pregnant women and throws quarters from the alumni section with intent to injure Pitt coaches.
Let them play others that condone and revel in that kind of garbage. We don’t need them, they need Pitt & Pittsburgh as a news outlet. Last time I checked that whole stinkin state didn’t have a major news outlet and will never have.
We have Syracuse and BC to hate if that’s your thing. And I know several on here already hate Notre Dame, so there you go.
Goodbye Hoopies, don’t call us, we’ll call you.
BTW, while the BE FB is lowly regarded, BE basketball has been analogized as the “SEC of college football”, which I assure you is a grand compliment on that station. In fact, they compared Pitt and Syracuse leaving BE basketball to Florida and Alabama leaving SEC football.
PSU played what, 7 conference games prior to Nebraska joining the B1G. That left 5 OCC games. Pitt could/should have been one of those. PSU chose not to renew the series.
The CFB landscape (superconferences) will now have 8 or 9 conference games which only leaves 3-4 OCC games. It will not be as easy to schedule the traditional rivalry games if the teams are in different conferences.
One possible solution is that Pitt could schedule games with WVU every other year, and ND in the years WVU is not on the schedule. This way you preserve the series with each team while allowing games against teams in lower-tier conferences. Other than this, I don’t see how they can keep both going without 4-6 year gaps.
To me…our program benefits more with this priority order of rivals 1)Penn State 2)ND 3)Hoopie Hick Drunks…
It pisses them off when we turn our noses up at them…so lets do that one more time and never play them again….hopefully their rivalries in the future are with Central Florida and Marshall.
Playing that PSU game could really help some recruiting battles.
The entire State of Pennsylvania would stop to pay attention to every play.
No excuses, like Auburn/Alabama….Mich/MSU….
Ore/Ore St…Army/Navy and yes, “The Game” Hahvahd/Yale…Pitt/Penn State was and should continue to be the game that must be on the schedule EVERY YEAR!!!
wbb…i really dont hate WVU…i dont care about them that much. i think they act like idiots…but they aren’t a team im just dying to see pitt beat. for me…penn state is that team. to see us beat them (ideally with joe fa-fa still ‘coaching’) would really produce some bragging rights around here…and aren’t bragging rights around the water cooler what rivalries are really all about. there’s a crazy amount of penn st grads in pittsburgh (where i’m writing from) and they act like pitt isnt in the same class. i dont run into many WVU fans (probably because i dont hang out around too many trailer parks…and you need to be able to read in the line of work that im in).
i like to joke about WVU because its easy…but im passionate about pitt beating penn state. i bought season tix this year when they announced that we’d be playing those jag-offs in a few years just so I can ensure that ill have a seat when it does happen.
Am I unhappy that this once great rivalry has ended? You bet. But why continue to persue something that no longer has importance to PSU? This is just feeding their arrogance.
WVU is Pitt’s rival now, for better or worse. Additionally, the Pitt-WVU rivalry extends to b-ball. The one with PSU did not.
There have been just as many memorable football games between us and WVU as we had against PSU in the 70s and early 80s. Which by the way was pretty much the only time the Pitt-PSU rivlary was nationally relevant.
When a Pitt score is posted at Puskar stadium, the Eer fans cheer if Pitt is losing.
However, a Pitt score posted on the Beaver Stadium scoreboard goes pretty much unnoticed. This is because the Nits’ fanbase is composed of followers up and down the eastern seaboard and only PSU fans from Western PA show any passion towards Pitt.
Like it or not, both Pitt and WVU are much more regionally based and their rivalry remains meaningful.
but if we don’t end up playing any of them, i won’t be that concerned either. my view on this changed as soon as we went to the ACC. i luv beating some of these teams, but what pitt needs right now is legitimacy…not rivalry.
and even if we dont end up playing PSU, ND, or WVU…we’ll work up new rivals. i feel like going to the ACC is going to bring match-ups with some great teams that will more than give us our fill. by going to the ACC we’ve made a move that has us moving in the right direction. we need to focus on competing in that conference….when we do that we’ll have arrived as a legit contender. and when that happens, we’ll have new, better teams lined up to be our rivals. lets make it so our biggest game of the year is an ACC championshiop game
I personally would get rid of WVU. I go to many road games, but I refuse to go to Morgantown due to all the issues at the game. I don’t think Pitt should play any team in which Pitt fans will fear for their safety. I’d take just about any team over WVU. Heck even a team like Iowa is better. I know we have no history. But my trip to Iowa this year was awesome. The fans were friendly and helpful and it was a great time, minus the final score of the game of course.
Its too bad that Joe Pa was willing to let the Pitt-PSU rivalry wither away, but all the venom is gone. They don’t care about us and I think the only reason Pitt fans care about them is because it reminds them of the glory days of Pitt football
Please correct me if I’m wrong. I attended Pitt from out of state and was a freshman during Pitt’s first Heinz season, so my view on this is from a way more recent vantage point. I have zero personal feelings about PSU, only the echos of hate left behind by the people who attended before me. I remember my freshmen year there still being some P-E-N-N-S-T Sucks chants. Those eventually disappeared by the time I graduated.
But goddamn do I like beating WVU. Getting beat at Heinz with thousands of hoopies filling the seats has really ruined my weekend a few times. Also, the best victory I have experienced as a Pitt fan is the 2007 Brawl. I guess as a non-PA resident, who started attending Pitt at the turn of the century, WVU has a hell of a lot more meaning to me than PSU.
F**k Penn State! They’ve had their chances to renew the rivalry and don’t want to (2 games in 5 years and no plans to go further is crap)…and ND hasn’t been relevant in 15 years.
Besides, there’s an outside shot ND joins us in the ACC…
I graduated from Pitt the year after we beat PSU 12-0 at Three Rivers – the last game of the series. And man, let me tell you that was a WIN. 55,000 people never sounded so loud. I also traveled to Happy Vally the year before when we came within a hair’s breadth of beating them at their place, even though we like 17 point dogs. And let me tell you that stadium was off-the-hook loud. Have you ever felt bleachers vibrating beneath your feet, BEFORE the game? I have.
Maybe you’re right though…maybe it’s been to long and all the venom is gone. Maybe. But I don’t think so. I think it runs too deep. I think it runs too local. I respect that you’re from out of state and you’ve never seen us play PSU, but if you ask me, that venom is there, and it always will be.
That being said, I love beating WVU too…
The only ones screaming and cheering for Pitt in that section were myself and mom (sad to say but bro has gone to the dark side). It took a blocked FG by Arrington to secure the win for the lions.
I was one who once thought that we needed to play the game every year; a great tradition for both schools…something that both schools needed…
But now, I say the Brawl is better…”The Backyard Brawl is a rivalry. It has doomed seasons. Made seasons. The fans get after it. There’s true hate.”…couldn’t agree more!
