It seems like forever that the Big 12 has been evaluating its options. Will it expand to 10 teams or 12? Is Mizzou staying or leaving for the SEC? What happens then? If Mizzou stays, then what? Texas wants the Big 12 at 10. Oklahoma prefers 12 teams. Is BYU really going to join? Is TCU on or off the table? If Mizzou leaves, does it make it more or less likely to go to 10 or 12.
What does the SEC do if Missouri doesn’t take their embrace? Stay at 13? Grab an ACC team? Will they be able/willing to take one from a state they already have a presence (Florida or South Carolina)? Settle for WVU?
And if the ACC does lose a team? Well, then UConn is there with bags packed. Rutgers trumpeting their NYC market proximity — while hoping no one looks too closely.
Then it is down to the Big East. Just trying to stay above water for a little bit longer.
Everyone likens it to dominoes falling. I see it as a “Choose your own adventure” story. Each option taking you to a different story and ending.
Since I can’t seem to quit the unhealthy fascination with the subject, time for a rundown.
The other thing to remember, is that expansiopocolypse still has a big impact on Pitt. If we want Pitt in the ACC sooner rather than later, then it is important that the Big East stabilizes quickly (or is completely destroyed).
The Big 12 may not know whether Mizzou is staying or going until the Missouri Board of Curators meet tomorrow, but they are inching closer to making it really hard to leave once things are decided.
The Big 12 Conference Board of Directors today announced adoption of a position to equally distribute all conference related distributable revenue to include Tier I and II football television, men’s basketball television and NCAA men’s basketball tournament revenues. This action becomes effective after each member institution commits a grant of rights to the Conference for its Tier I and II television rights for at least six years.
That still requires the present schools to each vote to give the grant of rights to the TV. What it means is that even if a member ran to another conference, the Big 12 would have the TV rights — to air and collect the money — to the former member. Effectively locking in the members for the 6 year period, and creating some stability.
The ACC hasn’t taken that drastic of a step (yet), but has increased its exit fees to $20 million. Making it very, very costly to leave. As for the Big East, no surprise that their meeting yesterday paid more lip service to staying united and nobody leaving, but remaining weak in the penalties.
“The Presidents are also actively considering changes to the Conference’s governing bylaws to further solidify the membership of the Conference.”
With UConn and Rutgers making no secret (especially UConn) of their desire to be anywhere else. With Louisville, WVU and Cinci all being mentioned as potentially moving to the Big 12. There is no way that the Big East could get the requisite 3/4 vote (11 of 14 voting members — since Pitt and Cuse can no longer vote on these sorts of things) to pass that change. All the Big East can do is talk about it, and try and make it appear that it might happen.
The one thing that did come out of yesterday’s meeting for the Big East is officially authorizing expansion.
A source with knowledge of the meeting told ESPN.com’s Andy Katz that the Big East did not issue any invitations Sunday. The source said a number of schools were discussed, including Navy, Army, Air Force, Temple, Central Florida and a new name in SMU, which would be a natural rival with TCU if the Horned Frogs honor the commitment to join the conference in 2012-13. All of these schools except Army and Navy would join the Big East for all sports.
The timing of Pitt and Syracuse’s departure was also on the agenda, a source said. Pitt and Syracuse would like to get out for the 2012-13 season. But Marinatto has said he wants to hold the schools to the 27-month departure requirement.
ACC commissioner John Swofford said at the time of adding Pitt and Syracuse that he would honor that time frame. The exit fee is $5 million, but that could always be negotiated up, according to sources, to expedite the departure.
Assuming TCU is sticking with joining the Big East, the Big East can’t let Pitt and Syracuse go for the 2012-13 season without expansion. The Big East would be down to only 7 football programs and lose their BCS AQ status. As much as I dislike football only memberships (if Pitt was staying in the Big East), Navy is a vital addition for Pitt and Syracuse to be able to leave early.
Navy is presently a football independent. That means they can join immediately for the 2012 season, keeping the Big East at 8 schools. That, though, presumes all expansiopocolypse comes to a brief halt (until next year or so). The Big 12 can’t expand beyond BYU. Mizzou needs to stay in the Big 12, and the SEC has to wait at least a year before trying to get an alternative for team number 14.
Oliver Luck, the WVU AD is putting the happy face on things by taking potshots at Syracuse.
“So we’ve got some quality schools that are very interested in getting involved, including both Air Force and Navy. It’s no secret there. I think both of those institutions are academically excellent, very important nationally and also, I think we all can agree, they play some pretty good football.
“In fact, I would trade Air Force or Navy for Syracuse every day of the week in terms of the quality of the football program. No disrespect, but that’s just an observation I think most would agree with who understand football.”
Odds that Doug Marrone has that quote up on the Syracuse bulletin board for the week leading up to their Friday night home game with the Hoopies on October 21? 1:1 would be my guess.
Now back to that potential Big East expansion list. ECU remains persona non grata for BCS expansion. As does Memphis. Poor academics play a major role for both. Memphis is also damaged by such hideous football. ECU is killed by its geography.
SMU? I guess the Big East figures if they really want to try and cement a claim to Dallas-Ft. Worth metroplex, they need two schools in the area. Somehow Houston is not even listed. Astounding. At this rate the random Big East rumor machine created by Friarblog is just as accurate.
Finally, I have long maintained that while Providence controllers in the Big East and the basketball schools have been able to exercise way too much control and limits on the Big East football, I also have been aware that the basketball side of things believes the football side is too dominant. This article makes that perception just so clear.
After being bullied for the last 20 years and being told (correctly) that the wishes of their football-playing brothers dwarf their own, it is time for the leaders of the Big East’s Catholic basketball colleges to look out for themselves.
The time is now because the football schools have shown themselves to be louses. Consistently dreadful on the gridiron and not be trusted in the board room, the football schools have crucified themselves. Two weeks ago, Pittsburgh and Syracuse gave up the fight and jumped at their first invitation out when the Atlantic Coast Conference came calling.
The scary thing for the Big East football schools is that the basketball side is actually in control with Pitt and Syracuse out of the picture. It is 7 b-ball schools plus ND versus 6 football schools. The dysfunction will only be accentuated.
The list of demands include:
— Making the football side accept Villanova moving up to football (Temple grudgingly would be the back-up in Nova doesn’t commit).
— Only take Navy and Air Force as football-only members.
— No way to other full members like UCF.
— Expand the basketball-only side now (in preparation of an eventual split) by getting Xavier and Dayton. Hold up any football expansion unless there is equal expansion for basketball.
The idea of the latter is so that when the Big East dissolves, the basketball side can keep the conference name and money (and at least ensure short-term survival).
First off, schools that depart the Big East (like Pitt & Syracuse) leave their share of the NCAA basketball pie behind. Last year, the conference received nearly $25 million, about $6.5 million more than any other conference (the Big Ten was next). Until Pitt and Syracuse move to the ACC, the Big East will remain the deepest basketball conference in the country, so similar-sized checks will follow.
The conference’s valuable name and tournament contract with Madison Square Garden also remain with the surviving members. So the only reason to move on right now is if a better option awaits.
He is right on what the basketball side needs to do to plan ahead, and it is the exact reason the basketball side will stick it out to the end. McNamara, though, completely overstates the value of the basketball side (“The football schools need the basketball sizzle of Georgetown, Marquette, St. John’s and Villanova…”). Uh, no. As bad as teams like USF and Rutgers have been on the basketball side of things, the basketball deadweights include Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul. To say nothing of the only appeal of St. John’s up until last year, was recruiting in NYC. Only Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette have been consistent NCAA Tournament teams.
Last year when the Big East got 11 teams into the NCAA Tournament, seven were from programs with football — Pitt, Cuse, Cinci, UConn, WVU, Louisville and ND. The fact is the basketball schools cannot keep up with even Big East football schools in the money game. Whether to pay for coaches or for facilities. Even the low amount of Big East football money generated is a significant number when compared to the zero dollars (or losses in 1-AA) for the basketball schools.
Best case for Pitt is that the Big East quickly nabs Navy. Once that happens, real negotiations to exit the conference can truly begin.
It’s funny, but a couple weeks ago Luck publicly called Nordenberg a liar, but I don’t believe a word that comes out of Luck’s mouth. An arrogant SOB.
Really, really going to the well.
Embarrasing
Hail to Pitt!!!
Being stuck in a situation that is constantly unstable. With one shot, to the ACC, everything was cool and calm, and a sigh of relief.
With one shot, Missouri would give their fans (95%) anyhow, a collective sigh of relief.
Or, they could give them a, “I can’t believe we’re stuck in this sh*t again”.
Good luck Missouri fans, I hope you find some comfort!!!
I think they should go because in time big east is done.
2) Why is Marinatto still the commissioner?
I think you have some great comments, however please work on punctuation, spelling, and grammar. It is painful to read your first post.
Don’t know about the ABC coverage. I would doubt it though, if it’s starting at 330. Seems like all the Big East games of the week always start at noon.
Good luck.
However, they say it has been one of the most massive write in, phone in and email campaigns ever by fans anywhere, to the administration, to get out of there and get to the SEC.
Similar kind of to Pitt, they will lose some rivalries, but the constant instability has got to be driving them nuts.
I’m sure, if they were told, “the Big 12 will be together for the next 30 years”, a lot of them would want to stay, but we all know how instability causes problems.
Whatever’s best for them, think they’d be a nice fit in the SEC, or if the Big 12 stays together and they stay, that’s ok too.
The fans overwhelmingly want to get the hell out of Dodge though!!
In other words, the BE’s shitty bowl tie ins would be worse if not for ND.
I said it before. Not so long ago, there was a conference that spanned the entire East Coast, from Boston to Miami, that had championship football, men’s basketball and women’s basketball – the Big East. The braintrust, such as it is, still found a way to annoy members and drive them away.
The ACC should just add Rutgers and UConn and finish the Big East.
He caused this mess anyway!
Is’s great that Pitt is in the ACC but they could get mad at Pitt real soon. What happens when Pitt takes a few thousand fans to a bowl game??? One of the reasons that the BE had lousy bowls was the bowls only wanted WV.
One of the biggest reason holding back Pitt is not the stadium, coaches, or the ADs but alumni that does not support the school in donations and attending games. I am not referring to people on this fourm
Whether it’s because, we’re in a city with pro teams, we’ve lost half the population, bad seasons, moving the stadium off campus, etc. etc. ad nauseum, there has been one truth for the last 30-40 years that I’ve gone to Pitt games, and that is……………
Penn St., ND, and WVU can get some sell outs, some good teams coming in, i.e. Nebraska, TAM, can get close to 50k.
But, the average Pitt crowd, during a good season is anywhere from 38k to 45k. That’s it.
Been that way for years, in Pitt Stadium, Three Rivers or Heinz.
I don’t know why, again, reason after reason, but, the fact remains.
So, a thought has occured to me the past few weeks. After 40 years of trying, the admin, the fans etc. etc. need to get off of the “how do we get 65 or 70k fans to the game”. We’re not going to. We will never have 65k for opening day against Maine.
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. Some of the reasons are valid. You can argue the point over and over, but the facts remain.
I will also say, the people that show up, and post on here and watch on tv if they can’t get to the games, are as passionate as any fans, just not as many.
So, what to do. First thing, and I’m not a markeeting major, but, I do know it’s supply and demand.
Ideally, a beautiful new stadium in panther hollow or wherever, of about 45k would be perfect. By the way, Duke, Wake and Bc have stadiums of 40k or so, would not be the smallest.
Ok, no room, no money, I get it.
How about covering the the top sections of Heinz, except for the first 10 rows or so of the upper deck, and the top of the big end zone. Only make 40k or so available, and would get away from those awful yellow seats. (except for ND, PSU, WVU)
As for traveling, I don’t have a good answer for that, lately, especially with the little bowls, yes awful. I do know I went with thousands to the Sugar Bowls in 77 and 83 and a Cotton Bowl. Maybe we’re fickle, if the bowl doesn’t matter, people don’t go.
I do believe, if Pitt was relevant, in the top 10, won the ACC championship and went to the Sugar or Orange Bowl, you’d have a good number of fans going. Like WVU or Nebraska, no, we’re not them. But, for whatever reason, if the bowl was big, Pitt was relevant, you’d have some travelers.
I have no answers, but, I’ve thought about this a lot lately, and everyone sitting around thinnking, how do we get Heinz filled for every game, not just PSU and ND, it ain’t gonna happen.
Again, it’s not a bad thing, the 30 to 40k are passionate as anyone, and, I hate this cliche’ more than any cliche’, but, it is what it is.
Also, Pitt football games on tv are one of ESPN higher rated games. Maybe people like to stay home and watch on tv, instead of go????
I know an on campus stadium isn’t going to happen, but, the one excuse of “no room” is pretty thin. There was no room for the Consol Energy Center either. With some of the land, and some of the buildings being so old, if they wanted to make it happen, they could.
Money would be the bigger issue I would think.
Also, remember, Pitt is not a huge school with 50k students either.
I would have to look into donations, you may be right, but, I’d have to see some evidence.
Attendting the games, poor. You are correct.
Some half decent teams, 45-52k.
Regular ol’ teams, 35-45k.
Anyone that went to games then, will attest to this on games that were not against rivals and weren’t sell outs.
The average game, both side of the bowl were filled. The south end zone, I believe, would be half full. The north end zone, would be sprinkled with people. Pretty much it.
If the north end zone was were the painted panther head on that building that overlooked the field was. If not, vice-versa.
I know thats why they made the Pete only 12,500, instead of 18 or 20 k. At 12,500, games sold out, hottest ticket in town.
If they would have made it 20k, probably would have sold 15 to 16 and had some empty seats.
Again, I have no answer, but one thing Nordy and Steve should leave off their list, is trying to get 65k to every game. Yes, I’d love it, not gonna happen.
Not a knock on them, still thrilled with both of them getting us to the ACC. They have some credit for quite awhile.
We’ve been over this before and it is mostly due to playing in a pro market where the NFL team is revered. BC has little exposure but does have more alums and a much larger population base to sell out it’s 44k stadium .. but still doesn’t.
Miami rarely sells out Joe Robbie (or whatever the new annual name is) and that held true when they were the king of college FB in the 80s and 90s … same as Pitt in late 70s/early 80s when the only sellouts at 54k Pitt Stadium were WVU, PSU and ND.
As I had previously mentioned on this blog … I know WAY too many Pitt alums who would not think of showing up at Heinz on Saturday but will pay an exorbitant fee for Sunday
Good points about the crowds. Pitt never did draw big crowds consistently. They should at least cover the high seats in the enclosed end zone. Worst seats in the stadium.
If seats are covered they should not be uncovered and sold for big games. Even when the game is a sell out there are many no shows. The tickets would then be in more demand and people that actually have a desire to go would buy and actually show up.
And strangely, in no way am I criticizing Pitt or the fans. We have as passionate fans as anywhere, that go to the games, watch on tv, and certainly, if you follow this board, it’s obvious, those that love Pitt, really love Pitt!!
Just the way it is, pro town, aging population, loss of population etc. etc., just trying to think of what could be done, with what we have.
Hey, wbb, great points. Guess because of the yellow seats it makes it more apparent, and I’ve taken special notice watching college games.
We’re not alone, you are right. Kansas, Indiana both had vast sections of upper decks not filled and they weren’t huge stadiums this past weekend ro two.
USC and UCLA are never filled. I know they both play in massive stadiums, but, it’s not even close.
Does it make us feel any better, no, but, I think we all need to realize, as big as college football has gotten…….many of these games across the country are not sold out.
A lot in the SEC, Ohio St, Mich, Neb, Wis, Texas, and yes as evil as they are PSU. I don’t have the stats, but, I bet I could randomly pick teams out of the air, and I bet they aren’t sold out.
Actually, I will, if someone is bored, they could check my guesses. I bet Minnesota, Iowa St. Virginia, NC St. California, Colorado, Texas Tech, Kansas St. etc. etc. are not sold out????? And that’s just to name a few.
I know a lot of fans who love to go to the games……….I also know a lot of fans, passionate fans, extremely passionate college football fans, who love nothing more than getting up Saturday morning, having a coffee and putting Gameday on ESPN, and waiting to watch about 20 college football games all day long on tv!!!!
Great points Marietta also.
Anyhow, I really don’t think we’re that different than a lot of programs.
Now, what to do, you should always have an answer if you’re trying to make a point, right??? I don’t!!!!!!!!!
I know there are a hundred reasons why we can’t build on campus, room, money, etc. etc.
I would mention this, as Pitt moves forward in the future, and for those that give the subject any thought………
We’re not talking about a 70,000-100,000 coliseum type stadium, what about a 40k-45k stadium.
Believe me, I’ve seen some of these, they don’t look like rinky dink high school stadiums, they look like regular college football stadiums and can be very nice.
If not, then the tarp thing possibly????????
As much as I’ve defended us, I’m not a fool, it does look hideous with the yellow seats sticking out empty.
If I hit the lottery, I’m gonna buy Pitt and the fans, dark blue seat covers, everyone can take a few to the games, and where you see a yellow seat empty, we can cover them up!!!! LOL
All, have a great day!!!
In the early 70s the two teams went in oppsite directions. Fans will come to see Pitt especially when Larry Fitzgerald was here. A couple of clones of Larry and more wins will drag the non alums to the games. The local fans are still football fans and a lot are shut out from going to Steeler games because of sellouts. They watch at home or go to sports bars. There is still a large pool of fans that need a reason to attend.
in one of the latrines that made going for a wiz in basic training at Ft. Jackson a fond memory.
Parking? Concessions? Pitt Stadium was outdated in 1959!!!
Heinz is fantastic for a college with 30,000 undergraduates with a high level program that can go to better Bowls than The Muffler Bowl and The Beef and Gravy Bowl.
A question? Why has The Big 10,11,12 passed on Mizzou? Major midwestern university, solid academics, St. Louis and KC markets (yes, I know part of KC is in Kansas). I think the Big 10,11,12 has its head up its ass!
USF rushes with four and doesn’t bring that much pressure… so its much more vanilla….Plus I think most agree, USF was highly overrated with a “Lucky” win over ND. (still a win though) and then a few nobodies. Granted they ended last year with some good wins.
Can Tino really make quick decisions along with young backups at O-Line ?
I think the Big 10 is waiting on ND, they miss the boat by not taking Mizzou, and if it ever does get to the 16 team super conference thing, they may have to take lesser schools than Mizzou.
USF was over-rated, but, regardless, the offense seemed to grasp the system finally. I would say USF is much better than Maine or Buffalo, and they didn’t grasp it then, but played much better against a much better team compared to those two, so, hopefully, something is clicking.
Hopefully not the fateful trap. For some reason, you can yell and coach at players all you want, and tell them how important this game is, but, seems like all teams, college or pro, come out flat sometimes. Hopefully the kids are pumped up to see, what could be, and want to come out and throw it around again.
And that was the “rennovated” Pitt stadium. Until the 70s, the bleachers were decrepit wood which left splinters in your ass. They upgraded to metal bleachers (can’t imagine with today’s obesity epidemic how that would play out). If I complained to my Dad about the bleachers he’d tell me how good I had it over the wood ones. . . or better yet — that I got to watch Pitt football and not the Steelers in the 60s playing in that same rat hole. On the rare occasions where security would confiscate liquor from rowdy fans (Pitt and visitors), they’d just pour it right down the steps. The latrines were hilarious — 12′ troughs, yet dudes would still piss in the sinks.
I was all of 6 years old taking that in — who knew it would never get any better.
14th row -47 yard line; On the Rutgers side.
I will be attending with my wife (We are grandparents)
My son’s tickets he ripped Achilles. I think the cost is about %50.00 per ticket.
I attended a game at the Horsehoe when it was still a horsehoe to see OSU play Iowa in the mid 80s. I was unfortunate to have a seat at the end of a row and my asscheek was extended over the end of the bench seat the entire game … and I assure you that it wasn’t because I was obese (well at least not back then.)
At least Heinz is one ass per seat, the way God intended.
Their D really shut down the Orange O, had it not been for a fumble recovered for a TD RU wins in regulation.
Overall, the game was a snorefest. We were commenting that the fans that had tuned in to see the OSU/MSU game must be going nuts knowing they are stuck with this game while missing a good Big 10 match-up. I was not impressed with either team. I know a lot can change in one week in college football but if Pitt can play well enough on O to score a few TD’s, and don’t give up any free points via turnovers, we should win.
GO PITT!
What are they running over there in Columbia, a museum?
Hillbilly AD, Oliver Luck has the dreaded ‘Foot in Mouth’ disease.
Syracuse beat the Hillbillies last year in Morganhole. So what does that make WVU’s football team.
No one that truly calls himself a Pitt fan or a Pitt alum, would EVER say ANYONE from W VA. Community College was right.
You had to be really wasted as to not smell the stench in there. But all the old college stadiums were just like it, bench sitting(which still most have), urine troughs and no frills.
It certainly wasn’t for the shemales of today.
But then again that’s what made it a unique experience and PITT stadium would rock and there’s something about a totally open air single bowl stadium ala the Rose Bowl.
It was cool driving or walking around the stadium towards the VA hospital, you could actually look down into the stadium and I loved the Big Panther on the House who looked down onto the field.
Bring back the Mustard Yellow and Royal Blue and the Pitt script ! Just saw a replay of the 1984 Fiesta Bowl and we looked so great in those uni’s.
Can’t wait to get to the ACC and a better bowl opportunity.
This is one Pitt fan who WILL travel to the right place.
Comment by longsufferingpittfan 10.04.11 @ 10:03 am
Watch it, that’s the local bowl game. It’s one of the better newer bowl games. Bank of America stadium is state of the Art and you can walk right over to downtown Charlotte and there are plenty of hotels as well. Previously known as the Meineke Car Care Bowl & Continental Tire Bowl.
And btw it’s also an ACC Bowl, so you better start liking it bro. The ACC’s best bowl after the BCS is the Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl in Atlanta.
Enjoy and relive the 1984 Fiesta Bowl. Just be sure to quit watching with about 5 minutes to go.
Comment by MariettaMike 10.04.11 @ 7:17 am
Have to contradict that MIke, FSU is ALWAYS sold out (82,000), as is UNC(63,000) and NC State(58,000) is usually sold out as well (98% to capacity) Clemson is 80,000 as well. Va Tech is up to 66,000. You did mention those two. UVA usually sells out at 61,500 when they play Va Tech, UNC or Maryland or FSU or Miami. Duke & Wake Forest have small stadiums, however they have very small undergrad enrollments, I believe Wake is only around 4,000 undergrads but they play to almost 100% capacity at their stadium. And Duke hasn’t been relevant in football for decades and they only have around 6,000 undergrads. So that makes sense for those two.
Four (4) ACC teams were in the Top 30 of ALL FCS schools in 2010. For comparison sake, there were Zero from the BigEast in the Top 30.
BTW the AVERAGE NCAA FBS Football Attendance in 2010 was: (drum roll)
45,912
According to official NCAA statistics for 2010
PITT averaged……
52,165.
That makes us ABOVE AVERAGE ! See how this works.
Aren’t statistics great !
Comment by Penguins Fan 10.03.11 @ 10:01 pm
There’s no reason to add Rutgers unless there is an ACC network. As Rutgers is only a valuable addition if there are so many cents per cable subscriber for a yet unrealized ACC network.
One question to ask, if they were such a high value commodity for cable subscribers, I believe the B1G would have added them already. AND THEY ALREADY HAVE THEIR OWN CABLE NETWORK. (big 10 network)
They might take a few of those young men in white into the woods and do a Deliverance on them.
The middies would never go to Morganhole.
marino bobblehead and ditka leather headgear giveaways equals a buffalo sellout…
let the marketers market…
Better focus this week in practice boys…
