June 17, 2011

First off, I want to thank Chas for the opportunity to lower the credibility of his blog by allowing us to post here. My name’s Pat, I’m one of the writers over at The Incline, a relatively new blog covering all the teams in the Burgh, even the Pirates! Stop on over and say hi. It truly is an honor to post here on Pitt Blather, especially since we only started our blog about two months ago.

But enough with the infomercial and ass kissing, lets get back to Pitt and PSU renewing their series. A few days have passed since the announcement, and I don’t know about you guys, but I’m still pretty pumped. The media has been all over the story, and new Pitt head coach Tom Bradley shared a few thoughts on the rivalry. Wait, what? He isn’t our coach? Has someone told WTAE? Anyway, his thoughts:

“People want us in Philadelphia and New York and over here and over there, and it’s a push-pull for (athletic director Tim Curley), and that’s obviously a tough job.”

Easy there, Tommy boy. Those Nitters think pretty highly of themselves, don’t they? Why would they schedule Pitt, a longtime rival in the same state, when they could play Temple in Philly? It must be really hard being so popular.

And this is what drives me nuts about Penn State fans. They love constantly reminding you of their great team, school, and coach. Unfortunately, their team loses big games and can’t beat Iowa, the school is in a cow pasture, and the coach, well he’s old. Most fans and writers assumed that Paterno was hands-off during the negotiations, considering the games are 5 years away, and he’s like really old. But that hasn’t stopped some Penn State fans/bloggers from grasping at straws to protect their coach and question the media’s coverage:

“By all accounts, Paterno has been as active in the last few months as he’s been in a long time. He’s been walking up to miles per day, and he’s been Skyping with high school recruits. There’s little reason to believe he holds any more or less power than he has at any point in the last decade while the series has been on hold.”

Miles a day. Miles!

“That leaves the Pittsburgh media in a no-win situation. They can’t argue, at least logically, that Tim Curley and Penn State the athletic department overpowered Paterno to make the series happen, nor can they argue Paterno has been standing in the way now that the series has been announced under his watch. Of course, that won’t stop them from trying, but their credibility is gone.”

Ok, I’ll try and logically argue that Curley overpowered Paterno (although I don’t know how many people are saying the AD “overpowered” him). The conversation goes like this:

Tim: Joe do you plan on coaching until 2016?

Joe: Probably not.

Tim: Ok, we’re going to play Pitt then.

Joe: Have you seen my glasses?

I’d say that’s both logical and probable.

As promised, a few basketball notes to round things out.

Tough times for NBA prospects trying to prove their readiness could be good news for Gil Brown, Brad Wannamaker, and Gary McGhee. With the NBA lockout looming, summer camps and leagues have been cancelled, forcing teams to focus on players who need less development. Jay Bilas is high on Wannamaker:

“I like Brad Wanamaker a lot,” Bilas said. “He does everything. He doesn’t do anything great, but he does most everything well. I think he can make a roster.”

The consensus seems to be Wannamaker and Brown could go somewhere in the 2nd round, while McGhee will likely be an undrafted free agent.

As for the new crop of recruits starting their careers at Pitt, the summer leagues are vital to their development. Provided all recruits qualify academically, they will start summer classes on Monday and join their new teammates at the Pittsburgh Basketball Club Pro-Am at the Sportsplex in Green Tree. Coach Dixon doesn’t anticipate any issues:

“We think everything is fine,” Dixon said. “We don’t anticipate any problems.”

Was that worth quoting? Probably not.

If there’s an NBA lockout the summer league could see a boost in talent. That talent could include Dejuan Blair, Aaron Gray, and Sam Young, and should be make for some entertaining and fan friendly games. If you have the time, head down to Green Tree. There is no price for admission or parking at the Sportsplex. Hooray for NCAA regulations!

Again, thanks for reading, I look forward to babysitting you Blatherites (Blatherarians? Blatherfolk?) while Chas is on vacation.

My guess is Curley had no problem snubbing Paterno after the old man basically embarrassed him when they demanded he resign a few years back. JoPa spanked him and sent him to the corner.

Curley probably enjoyed sticking this one to him. Besides if this deal happened as fast as some have suggested (maybe as little as 2 to 3 hours?) then someone would have had to awaken Joe from his nap, changed his pants, and skyped him for a decision…not likely.

Joe, wether he is the coach or not in 2016, it is my gut that he was against scheduling Pitt until he was taking his dirt nap. 2016 sounds absolutely ridiculous to even think that Ol’Pa could still be the coach but weren’t people saying that 5 years ago too??? 2016 would be his 50th season as head coach….I honestly wouldnt put it past him to cling on to the program for as long as humanly possible at which point I envision a Weekend at Bernies scenario with JayPa and Bradley wheeling Joe around with sunglasses.

Comment by Coach Ditka 06.17.11 @ 7:21 am

pat, the link to your blog isn’t working correctly.

Comment by Greg in New Orleans 06.17.11 @ 7:21 am

I kinda prefer blatherfolk

Comment by Wannstache 06.17.11 @ 7:38 am

Hi there. As the writer of the post cited here, I obviously encourage you all to read the post in its entirety over at BSD as I feel the message is lost pretty quickly in the snippets cherry picked for this piece.

I like a good Joe Paterno old man joke as much as the next guy. Really, I do. The idea that anyone, specifically anyone he has a fabled grudge against, goes on Penn State’s schedule without his approval, though, is absurd. Joe has delegated a lot of his responsibility as he’s gotten older, but he hangs around to make the big decisions like these. Who is the quarterback? What does Penn State do on fourth down? Who does Penn State put on its schedule? Those are the things he’s still around for.

Tim Curley did the leg work on getting this thing going, but he wouldn’t have stuck it to Joe and gone behind his pack to do it.

Trust me. You’d know if he did.

Here are the facts. The Eastern Conference thing went down in the early ’80s. Pitt and Penn State have played 15 times since, including four since the school’s joined conferences, and now have two more meetings scheduled. If Joe’s goal was to stick it to Pitt by killing the series, he’s done just an awful, awful job of it.

I’m not going to say I Joe had no role in keeping Pitt off the schedule for so long, but I think this announcement is proof positive he was never the boogeyman the Pittsburgh press made him out to be.

For years, we were told Penn State wouldn’t schedule Pitt until Joe was gone. That turned out to be a lie. To cover for it, the Pittsburgh press (A press corps, mind you, that rarely comes within 50 miles of State College) is now telling us he’s been deposed by Tim Curley. If that’s true, A) Why is he still coaching and B) Why isn’t this the long term series we were told it would be once he was gone?

It’s this simple, people. Penn State has played these teams as the staple of the non-conference schedule since joining the Big Ten.

1997-2000: Pitt
2001: Miami
2002-2003: Nebraska
2004: Boston College
2006-2007: Notre Dame
2008-2009: Syracuse
2010-2011: Alabama
2012-2013: Virginia
2014-2015: Rugers
2016-2017: Pitt
2020-2021: Syracuse

Sensing a theme? They’re almost exclusively the greatest hits from the independent days and Pitt and Syracuse, the two chief rivals of that era, are getting the most love.

This isn’t about a grudge. It’s about exactly what Tim Curley (the guy you all think is running the show) said. Penn State likes to play other schools.

I just don’t get why everyone is so offended by that.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 8:08 am

Sorry Adam, you cant have it both ways. If JoePa was the ultimate decision maker and Curley wouldnt have done this without his blessing then that means that Joe was also the one that refused to schedule Pitt for the past decade. Lets face it, if Joe wanted Pitt on the schedule and said make it happen – it would happen.

So which is it? Joe wanted to play us but didnt have the power to make it happen (as you suggest)? Or Joe is the big cheese and just now out of the blue agreed to play Pitt?

Sorry Adam, but I think Curley could have cared less what Joe thought, struck the deal with the blessing from Spanier and told Joe after the fact. Spanier is the one that Curley ultimately reports to not the old man. And if you remember Spanier and Curley tried to oust Joe years ago so its not like they care about hurting his feelings after he basically humiliated them in public by telling them he is not leaving and go ahead and try to make him…

Comment by Coach Ditka 06.17.11 @ 8:30 am

Coach Ditka,
Tim Curley wouldn’t have done this without Joe Paterno’s blessing, but Paterno wouldn’t have withheld his blessing, either. There’s no power struggle here. If there was, someone would have lost a long, long time ago.

This was never about keeping Pitt off the schedule. It was about putting other teams on it. The sooner people just accept that, the sooner we’ll get along.

Look, hate Paterno if you must. Just remember that by 2021, Pitt will still be the team Penn State has seen most often in the non-conference since joining the Big Ten.

I just don’t see how anyone can frame that fact as one man trying to stick it to a school that snubbed him 30 years ago.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 8:44 am

BC was a home-away in 03 and 04 (FWIW, PSU lost both while Pitt beat BC both of those years)

Adam, I dislike the disingenuos nature of their message.

1) they claim they have other rivals like Rutgers and Temple, yet not only have they come close to playing 96 games with either of them, they have won over 90% of the games that they played them. And the only reason they played Temple and Syracuse this past decade was because they were 2 and 1 series (2 home for PSU.)

2) Further, for years they played Pitt the last game of the year on Thanksgiving weekend .. Pitt was CLEARLY their chief rival and Syracuse would be the only other school that may be considered a rival. Yea, Rutgers and Temple are close (in proximity) but so is Maryland and Juniata … big deal.

3) I noticed you didn’t list the likes of Coastal Carolina, FL Internation, Akron and YSU in your list .. but of course the thought of playing 2 major non-con schools is incomprehensible (take a look at Pitt’s non-con schedule this year)

Don’t get me wrong, PSU can schedue whomever they want … just cut the spin!

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 8:47 am

Temple and Rutgers are only “rivals’ in the press releases. Pitt would spin it the same way if it scheduled, let’s say, Maryland. That’s just the way things go.

I don’t think Penn State calls those schools “rivals” to infer they’re on the same level as Pitt. They do it to catch people’s attention. Disingenuous? Sure. But that’s the PR game, and every school plays it.

As far as Penn State’s broader schedule goes, it breaks down like this.

-Major OOC opponent
-MAC team (contractually obligated by Big Ten)
-Temple (3-for-1)
-Wild Card

There’s only really one slot Pitt could fit on an annual basis, and that’s the wild card spot. If you make that an annual home and home, sure, you could work the other OOC game around it, but it makes it more difficult to make the dates work with the Alabamas of the world and still get 7 home games in. It also negates an hopes you might have to get an eighth home game if you find yourself in a $$$ mess.

Really, the only way to make Pitt-Penn State work long term would be for A) Penn State to give up its scheduling flexibility or B) Pitt to agree to a lopsided deal. Neither of those choices are in both school’s best interests, so we get what we had from 1997-2000 and now 2016-2017: intermittent renewals. I said that almost verbatim in the post.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 9:11 am

@Adam, Why no quote from Joe?

One would reasonably assume that had Joe signed off on this he would have had a quote in the press release or tweated/skyped something. Who better in the world to comment on Pitt PSU renewing their football rivalry?

Pitt got a quote from Todd Graham who was a teenager in Texas watching some of the classic games. Joe actually COACHED in all of them.

You nits can protest all you want, talk about Joe “skyping” players, walking miles a day, but the fact is that his role with the football program is becoming more diminished with every passing season to the point now where is nearly out of the loop. The fact that PSU scheduled to play Pitt and there was SILENCE from Joe speaks volumes.

Comment by boubacar aw 06.17.11 @ 9:38 am

Pitt would find a way to make it happen. I just hear the same old excuses from the Nitter side. Yes, its challenging schedule wise, but not impossible. And, this rivalry is worth it. State Penn can get more creative in its scheduling without losing any significant flexibility and Pitt would never agree to a lopsided deal so stick that option where the sun don’t shine.

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 9:38 am

Here’s the release from the announcement of the 2013, 2020-2021 Syracuse series.

link to

Here’s the release from the Navy announcement last year.

link to

Here’s the release from the announcement of the Rutgers renewal in 2009.

link to

None of them have quotes from Joe Paterno. He didn’t snub Pitt by not commenting in the release, he just stuck with the way Penn State handles these scheduling announcements. The fact that you seem to think he did snub Pitt indicates to me you’re probably a little too far removed from the situation for me to care what your opinion is of Joe’s level of involvement in the program.

TX Panther,
It’s the height of hypocrisy to suggest Penn State should sacrifice its scheduling flexibility to make this series an annual event in the same sentence you dismiss the mere mention of Pitt accepting a lopsided deal by telling me to “stick that option where the sun don’t shine.”

If you’re not willing to make a sacrifice, what, exactly, give you the right to lecture Penn State on why it should?

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 10:04 am

Nice try Adam, but sacrificing “schedule flexibility” and taking a slap in the face from a rival trying to show that their program is more important than yours are two wildly different things. Talk about disingenuous.

Comment by Yoshi 06.17.11 @ 10:21 am

Because the “sacrifice” Pitt would be making would be monetary, and pretty substantial at that. The sacrifice PSU would be making would be that maybe they have to play Iowa State one year instead of Oklahoma. When you’re going to sell out the stadium pretty much regardless of who the opponent is, is that really much of a sacrifice?

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 10:27 am

Who cares who is in charge, how much Joe walks each day, and whose role is what– I don’t get the fascination/obsession with JoePa that Pitt fans have. Do I blame him for crushing the rivalry? Of course. You can’t argue otherwise– true college football rivals do not play a few times every 10 or 15 years. I think that stinks. But with college football and conferences the way they are today, non-conference rivalries are going to soon be extinct anyway. Money matters. The points Adam made about slotting into a schedule are sad but true.

Comment by Jason 06.17.11 @ 10:27 am

I’d be interested to here your reaction to this link to , posted over at Cardiac Hill.

“You don’t have to be a financial savant to understand that revenue with few costs equals nice profit, so the fluff games aren’t going anywhere. That leaves two games on the schedule, one of which goes to storied Notre Dame, who have a deal in place with Pitt through at least 2015. Add that up and it gives you one remaining game. Sure, that slot could go to Penn State (assuming they would agree to it, which they wouldn’t) but that would mean the Panthers would play the same schedule EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. Sorry, but I’m no fan of that. I like playing Utah from out west. I like playing Big Ten power Iowa. Suiting up against the heros from Navy is always cool. Virginia Tech comes to Heinz Field in 2012. I’d much prefer to play a different schedule every year, with new opponents and fresh logos, than the same damn thing year in and year out. Even if that means passing on a long-term renewal of the Pitt – Penn State game.”

Should I take that as a slap in the face from a rival trying to show their program is more important than mine? Is he being disingenuous?

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 10:29 am

It’s not about butts in the seats. It’s about exposure. Playing Oklahoma would probably get Penn State a national telecast at a fat time slot. Iowa State screams noon on the Big Ten Network. Why should Penn State sacrifice that exposure for Pitt?

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 10:35 am

Adam, when Curley signed with Rutgers last year, he called them rivals .. and when interviewed on 93.7 The Fan just a few days ago, he talked about ‘neighboring’ rivals in reference to Temple, Rutgers and Syracuse.

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 10:35 am

Alright, I don’t get all this hate on Joe Paterno (If anything it should be Tim Curley). Lets just run through the facts:

Fact: The AD decides the future schedules, not Joe Paterno
Fact: PSU offered Pitt a short term 1-1 series, which Pitt refused.
Fact: Pitt offered a lengthy 1-1 deal. Penn State refused.
Fact: Penn State offered a lengthy 2-1 deal, which Pitt refused, even though 66%+ of the games have been played in Pittsburgh

Fact: Penn State would be better off financially scheduling bigger name programs like Miami, Notre Dame, and Alabama, which we have done. Pitt does not offer nearly enough money for a 1-1 series to be viable for Penn State over a lengthened period of time. This is why the series was not continued.

Pitt’s original intent was to do an option that was not financially viable for PSU. That is why Penn State did not agree to play Pitt on the long term. I don’t see why there’s a misconception over this.

Comment by ICE 06.17.11 @ 10:38 am

Him calling those schools “rivals’ is the same as Coors Light telling me I should buy its beer because the label can tell me when it’s cold. It’s a cheap marketing scheme. It’s not anything worth paying attention to.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 10:43 am

Adam, you’re a schmuck. Whoever wrote that is merely expressing the personal opinion that he’d rather see other teams on the schedule than PSU every year. He is certainly entitled to that opinion. But he didn’t try making some phony arguments about how “boy, the team is just soooo in demand by fans and alumni around the country that we just have to squeeze in games in New York, Philly, and DC.”

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 10:45 am

That’s another fan’s opinion that I don’t happen to agree with but in any case is irrelevant. I couldn’t care less if PSU fans think they’re entitled to 2 for 1 home games vs Pitt. When their athletic department demands it to continue a series then it is a sign of disrespect. Disrespect between fans is expected – between programs not so much.

Comment by Yoshi 06.17.11 @ 10:48 am

Adam, you’re a bigger schmuck than I thought. Are you trying to tell me Pitt-PSU wouldn’t get national exposure? That there’s substantially less interest nationally in a Pitt-PSU game than a PSU-Alabama game? I kinda doubt that. Everybody loves a rivalry game! What’s more compelling: A Duke-UNC basketball game, or a Duke and say, Georgetown game? The UNC game, obviously! Why? Because it’s a storied rivalry for Christ’s sake.

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 10:50 am

Adam, why shouldn’t Pitt be the wild card each year?

They have 4 B10 homes games each year, plus either Pitt or the other OOC game, the MAC game (which is ALWAYS at home) and then FIU, Juniata or whoever .. that makes 7 home games each year.

But of course, even though the B10 makes more money from TV contracts and bowls than any other conference (including the SEC) and PSU gets 110k for every home game, they still need that 8th home game (67%) as much as possible.

Heck, what do they care about their fans? .. Their fans sellout for Coast Carolina and get rewarded with increase ticket prices.

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 10:51 am

It is all about the money. PSU wants\needs 7 home games a year. They can easily get a MAC or FCS team to come to Beaver stadium as their take would be more than a home. The take from a Pitt home game has to far less than a game at Beaver stadium or the away game at Alabama, Miami, etc.

Comment by PS82 06.17.11 @ 11:03 am

Penn State just agreed to a home-and-home. It doesn’t “expect” a two-for-one, it simply believes that’s the only way to make a long term series viable. There’s a big difference.

No, I’m not trying to tell you that. Of course it will get national exposure. We were talking about Iowa State.

Let me set it up like this for you. Let’s say Penn State agreed to a 30-year home-and-home with Pitt right now.

What happens in 5 years when Alabama comes back and says “We want to play you” but their only available date is Pitt’s only available date? Then Penn State has to tell Alabama no thanks, and that would legitimately pis a lot of Penn State fans off.

That wild card will never be a long term home-and-home. Not for Pitt, and not for anyone else. It’ll be the place Penn State fits in an FCS team if it must or an Oregon State (2008) if it’s lucky, but it’s not going to tie that spot up in a home-and-home that removes the flexibility to schedule the best fit available for the Major OOC spot.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 11:08 am

It’s not worth the effort in trying to reason with a Nitter over this. If both schools cared about the game of football (history, tradition, rivalry, fans), there would be no excuses and both sides would find a way to get a long term deal done. But, obviously money comes into the picture and one particular school is doing what is in their best interests monetarily. Pitt will never bend over for Penn State regarding scheduling flexibility on those terms. You Nitters are the height of arrogance.

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 11:10 am

Myles Hilliard – just committed to Pitt!!!

Comment by markp 06.17.11 @ 11:12 am

If Joe is holding such a grudge, why even offer the infamous 2 for 1 deal? If his grudge is so strong to stop the series why play from 97-00 and why offer any deal to continue playing rather than simply ignoring them? And if the rivalry was so important Pitt could have accepted the 2 for 1, its not that crazy of an idea

Comment by wfb 06.17.11 @ 11:16 am

When Pitt AD budget gets close to Penn State, call us. PSU football supports far more sports and scholarship the PITT! Damn Panthers fans. Arrogance is thinking your better that someone else ie Pitt athletics fans even thinking it offering are robust as PSU.

Comment by PS82 06.17.11 @ 11:16 am

TX Panther,
What do you mean it’s not worth trying to reason with a “Nitter.” If you have a beef with Penn State for this…

“But, obviously money comes into the picture and one particular school is doing what is in their best interests monetarily. Pitt will never bend over for Penn State regarding scheduling flexibility on those terms.”

Then I have no problem with you because that beef is based in something factual. Vilifying Joe Paterno for holding a 30-year grudge is not. That’s the only point the original post was trying to make.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 11:21 am

The fact is these dates for the game were the dates Penn State was trying to work out with Miami. When that fell through, Penn State called Pitt. What does this mean? Just like college admissions, footbaall scheduling uses Pitt as the safety school for Penn State.

Comment by Jim 06.17.11 @ 11:22 am

PS82 – PSU has SUBSTANTIAL more revenue than Pitt. As I said, B10 schools get more money from TV and bowls than any other conference … and far more than the BE in football. But as long as you fans are willing to attend all the OOC games against the likes of who they pay each year and are willing to accept the ticket price increases, they’ll keep doing it.

I guess from your message that your poor school would go broke if it didn’t habe that 8th game every other year despite the millions it takes in every year

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 11:24 am

If the argument is that Paterno’s grudge is the primary reason for the hiatus of the game, then why are they playing in 2016-2017? Conversely, if the argument is that this is a sign that Paterno has been subverted by the administration, then why is it only a 1-1?

I don’t think the University, in any way, has tried to devalue the Pitt brand by scheduling other opponents. Those teams just happen to be more accommodating to Penn State’s financial model. Whether someone calls them “rivals” or not is completely beside the point. Only Pitt fans seem to be drawing that correlation between Syracuse and Pitt based on the common reference of “rival”.

And you asked why can’t Pitt be that wild card? Because it’s not in Pitt’s interest to be that wild card. It’s not a long term 1-1. Those are one and done games. There is no return trip to Coastal Carolina or Indiana State – just like you make no return trip to YSU or Furman.

Until TCU joined, you guys had one more OOC slot to play around with. Penn State hasn’t enjoyed that luxury in the Big 10. I don’t think it’s coincidence that Big 10 membership coincided with the removal of Pitt from the schedule. It has nothing to do with Paterno.

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 11:25 am

Penn State offered Pitt a home-and-home after 2000. Pitt turned it down because it wanted a long term series. It was ONLY AT THAT POINT that the 2-for-1 entered the discussion from Penn State’s side because that’s the only long term deal that worked for it.

It didn’t just say “Hey Pitt, let’s play three games and we get two at home.” 2-for-1 was only the deal for something long term.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 11:25 am

I’m not vilifying Poopy Pants. I’m pointing out that you Nitters have DNA that’s somehow better than Pitt alumni which requires Pitt to accept a 2 for 1.

Hey, if money or greed motivates your front office over what fans want and whats good for football, I’ll have to respect that. I guess we’ll just have to wait for our invite into the Big 10 to see each other on the field each year.

By the way Pitt fans, Myles Hilliard is now a Proud Pitt Panther.

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 11:35 am

TX Panther,
To be clear, I don’t think Pitt should accept a 2-for-1. I don’t think Penn State does either, though. I think it’s giving Pitt an out to make a long term series possible if it really wants one. I think it’s better to have that on the table than nothing at all, don’t you?

And why go the low brow “poopy pants” route?

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 11:42 am

What a lot of you Pitt guys are missing, is that from a financial standpoint, scheduling Pitt every year would more or less force PSU to cut a varsity level sport somewhere else. We are one of the few AD’s in the nation that runs in the black, and I promise you no one making decisions is going to change that just so another school can feel special.

The rivalry is not worth that much to Penn State. I’m sorry, but that is the simplest way to put it.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 12:01 pm

Maybe State Penn has too many programs to support and should think about cutting some? Did that ever cross your mind? Why should Pitt accept those terms for a long term deal. You don’t see the Domers trying to shove those terms on Pitt. Why? That’s because the leaders of those schools understand that it’s not all about money. They value the history, the tradition and what the fans/alumni of the game think. Yes, it’s somewhat easier for ND because of an existing Big East relationship, but they also know better than to disrespect a rival. If this game isn’t worth it for you Nitters, then it’s a sad day for the Commonwealth and the game. And to answer your question Adam, it’s because I’ve obviously struck a nerve with you, and I get perverse pleasure out of agitating those like you who love the man.

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 12:12 pm

so playing another away game every other year would cause PSU to give up another varisty sport.

What i have learned today is just how much Blue and White Koolaid the PSU backers drink!

The poor school .. despite getting more revenue from football than at least 95% of the rest of the NCAA, it’s apparently on the verge for asking for federal relief .. or just (once again) raise it ticket prices.

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 12:15 pm

“Maybe State Penn has too many programs to support and should think about cutting some? Did that ever cross your mind? ”

Seriously? Are you kidding me? You are so self absorbed that you think Penn State should tell people on a full ride scholarship, that too bad, you can’t compete here anymore because Pitt feels upset we aren’t playing them?

You guys are like the crazy ex girlfriend that still tells everyone you’re seeing each other and are still in love.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 12:15 pm

Mvrck, if the Pitt rivalry is not much worth it, then why are you, Adam, PSU82 and whoever else here on this site?

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 12:18 pm

Listen, I’m sorry you guys can’t get enough people to show up to a football game to sell out your stadiums. So truly, truly sorry. But Penn State has a successful AD because the people in charge don’t make silly decisions. We offer more varsity sports than 95% of the rest of D1 schools in the nation because they make good financial decisions.

Don’t be all sarcastic and woe is me because your AD does things like go through three coaches in a month’s time. And, yeah, we are DAMN proud we can support 34 varsity sports, and still have the AD give back to the school. Why shouldn’t we be?

Whatever crazy accusations have been leveled against Paterno and his grudge here, expecting PSU to drop a varsity sport just to play Pitt every year is the absolute height of arrogance.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 12:20 pm

@Greg: The link should be fixed, thanks for the heads up

Comment by The Incline Blog Staff 06.17.11 @ 12:22 pm

Speaking for this Pitt fan….I have moved past the Pitt vs. PSU scheduling argument quite some time ago. As long as Pitt fans continue to harp on the perceived “need” for PSU to be on the schedule, the egos of PSU fans will continue to be fed – making them more arrogant than ever. Who cares if PSU is on the schedule or not….as long as they lose to whoever they are playing, I am fine with that.

Comment by Outlaw 06.17.11 @ 12:23 pm

“Mvrck, if the Pitt rivalry is not much worth it, then why are you, Adam, PSU82 and whoever else here on this site?”

Because I was hoping to give you a solid, factual reason as to why the long term deal would never last. But when I’m met with “you should just drop a sport then,” it throws rational discourse out the window.

I mean, that might be the single most ridiculous thing I’ve heard all week.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 12:23 pm

Mvrck, my kids are sick, my home is being repossessed, I’m losing my job and my dog just died …. can you hel, please??

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 12:24 pm

seriously, if you and your other PSU backers won’t send me money, I’ll have to drop my youngest kid!!

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 12:28 pm

Sorry, getting rid of a varsity sport because another school wants you too is still more ridiculous.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 12:29 pm

TX Panther,
Your faith in Notre Dame makes me laugh. You do realize they’re an independent, right? They have 12 games to work with every year. Notre Dame and Penn State are apples and oranges, dude.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 12:30 pm

See, this isn’t a discussion, or discourse. This is you being a dick because you can’t come up with a good reason Penn State shouldn’t bow to Pitt. I’m sorry, it’s not that we’re better or you’re better, or any of that 4th grade bullshit.

Our goals simply do not align at this time. Grow up and get over it.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 12:31 pm

The Domers may have 12 games but they make a point at scheduling us. Why? Because we have a long history with them and we value the relationship and aren’t money whores like you Nitters. Their fans want to play us just like many Nitters do. But, your front office makes up all these excuses to avoid playing Pitt. Now that is pathetic. And come on, you need a rival…just admit it and stop the denial. The truth is that you are a slighltly better than average Big 10 team that can claim no rival at this point. No school in your conference considers you their rival. Those are the facts blowhard.

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 12:43 pm

This was a really nice post. Thanks for filling in.

Anyone but Reed.

Comment by Pitt_Panther_1982 06.17.11 @ 12:48 pm

Have to say, Adam makes very good, reasonable points…The bottom line is that this is about economics…Every BCS School, not just PSU wants 7 and sometimes 8 home games…Every School wants variety on their non-con schedule…The only way Pitt and PSU will play each other every year is if they are someday in the same conference…which is not outside the realm of possibilities…Until then PSU has MSU to be their bitter rivals, and we have WVU…Truthfully, if we get to 2016 and 2017 and beat PSU twice, but lose both games to WVU, I’m going to be sick…I just don’t care about the occassional PSU game as I do about the all sports, every year, rivalry that we have with WVU.

Comment by HbgFrank 06.17.11 @ 12:53 pm

TX Panther,
If you’re to blind to see Notre Dame is the money whore of all money whore, you’ve lost all credibility with me.

That said, I’d be interested to see you spell out the tangible benefits of having a rival. Methinks you just like people to make poop jokes about. Classy.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 12:53 pm

Mcvrk, is there any reason for you and your PSU backers naivete? Have you ever seen audited their books?

Again, PSU FB makes more money than all but just a small handful of colleges. This is documented fact! Yet, they continue to bellyache about their finances and raise prices … and the faithful buy into it lock, stock and barrel!

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 1:04 pm

So based on what I’m reading all of the PSU fans that have been posting here are ticked off about the game in 2016 because of all the revenue it will be costing the university. You guys make it seem really fun to be a PSU fan.

This has been useful in one sense – now I understand the boring uniforms – they’re putting the savings toward a D1 ping pong program.

Comment by Yoshi 06.17.11 @ 1:12 pm

I just wanted to drop in and mention that I won’t be partaking in any arguments on the scheduling issue because I make it a point to not argue on the internet with mouthbreathing window-lickers. And this comments section seems to be chock full of them.

Comment by 06Lion 06.17.11 @ 1:13 pm

I’m glad to see the series is being renewed. It’s the Pitt fans who’ve been whining because it’s only a two year series.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 1:18 pm

I don’t think anybody is ticked off about the game in 2016. In fact, I think there’s a fairly significant contingent on the Penn State side that are genuinely excited. Granted, there’s a share of folks that are apathetic. But that’s about it. I think the Penn State posters here simply pointed to the reasons that a long term arrangement isn’t feasible. But every time Adam addresses a comment with an articulate answer, we see the absolute genius of TX Panther, and his attempt to change the argument.

I get it, the whole “HATE!!!” thing is fun, but I really don’t think that has ANYTHING to do with the game going on hiatus.

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 1:22 pm

Wbb, this is your argument as I see it:

PSU is driving a very nice Land Rover. It’s a good vehicle, definitely high class. We look at a Bently and go “This Land Rover sucks, I want one of those instead.”

This is how things are in reality:

“Man, it would be nice to have a Bently, but I realize that this Land Rover is still very, very nice and I can afford the payments on it so there is no reason to drive myself into debt over a possibly imperceptible upgrade.”

This is Penn State being financially responsible to it’s students, alumni, and fans. You notice, that in that list, Pitt doesn’t factor in at all. That’s how life works.

By the way, does it burn just a little that this deal only came about because we couldn’t reach a scheduling arrangement with Miami? Think about that. Pitt was our fall back plan. This isn’t even the best deal for PSU as is, but it was something that we had to settle for because our #1 choice fell through. You guys know what that is like, with coaching searches and all.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 1:22 pm


yes, Penn State makes more money on football. Where does that money go? Back into the sports that don’t make any money. This is why Penn State has 29 varsity teams (soon to be 31) and Pitt has 19. We can afford to have those teams, and to offer those other athletes chances to go to college and play the sport they love. Raising the prices of tuition or complaining about University finances has no bearing on the Athletic Department, and thus the sports teams–the Athletic Department is a self-sustaining part of the University.

Comment by NotCarlotta 06.17.11 @ 1:23 pm

I don’t think PSU should “bow” to Pitt if it means dropping a varsity program. I do think, however, that Pitt fans fairly blame PSU for the rivalry falling apart. It was not unreasonable for our athletic department to demand a long term series years ago or to reject a 2-1 deal to make that happen. The economic reality MAY be that a long term deal is not beneficial to PSU anymore, but PSU is responsible for creating that reality. And it is sad.

With nearly 100 games played, the two schools should be playing each other on a yearly, bi-yearly, or tri(?)-yearly basis. Even a four-year, World Cup-like schedule would make sense.

PSU fans, especially those from the eastern quarters of the Commonwealth, often rationalize the lack of a regular schedule by saying “the rivalry is not important to us.” But those who are from Western Pennsylvania or simply know the history of the rivalry know that this isn’t really true. A regularly scheduled competition would renew all of the passion and emotion experienced by both schools from the last century.

With the rivalry falling apart and the Big East quickly becoming less relevant due to the loss of Miami, BC, and Virginia Tech, I can understand why PSU would not be interested in renewing the series long term for economic and BCS rankings reasons. Still, it is hard to ignore the sentiment from most fans in wanting the series to be renewed.

If the Big East could, somehow, regain and sustain national relevance, I would think a more regular series would be beneficial to both schools.

Comment by A 06.17.11 @ 1:25 pm

Adam, I don’t think Pitt fans are whining because it’s only been renewed for two years, it’s because your AD came out and basically said they have better things to do. I want to see good, passionate college football. I hope you would too, screw the economics (and of course I understand money is the driving force most of the time). PSU playing Rutgers, Temple, and Syracuse, is not in the same ballpark as playing Pitt consistently. Obviously, there is a strong dislike among fanbases, just read these comments.

Comment by The Incline Blog Staff 06.17.11 @ 1:26 pm

PSU Backers ALL, I fully realize that PSU has a much bigger budget and more sports to support … BUT you make so much more … and you still bellyache!!


link to

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 1:35 pm

See, here’s the thing though. I grew up in a Penn State family. In Florida. I’ve watched PSU play since I was three. I am as die hard a PSU fan as they come, went out of state to attend school there. Go to as many games a year as I can, made damn well sure to have tickets to both Michigan and Northwestern to garuntee seeing Joe’s 400th win. Etc, etc.

Pitt, has never, ever mattered to me more than any other school. It mattered to my Grandfather. He remembered games from the 60’s and 70’s. He remembered 48-14. I was born in 85, and Pitt has always just been another (usually middling) Big East team to me. Penn State has more alumni spread around the country than it does still in PA. This is who the AD office is trying to cater to, the literally hundreds of thousands of people that have barely grown up with the “rivalry” and are far more excited to see PSU play an SEC or Pac 12 team, than someone from the Big East.

That is the national alumni base perception of Pitt. You are just another Big East team. This is not a unique perspective. A large portion of PSU fans don’t have strong ties to PA, let alone western PA. So, no, the desire and demand just isn’t there anymore. It could be, if a deal could be worked out. We are a voracious bunch that love a good HATEfest. But, until it financially makes sense, there will not be enough political and fan pressure to make it happen.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 1:35 pm

The Incline Blog,
I don’t dislike Pitt nearly as much as I dislike the way Joe Paterno has been treated in the Pittsburgh media all these years. The only reason I’m here is that you called me out for “grasping at straws” to defend him when the facts are clearly on my side.

If you have a beef with Penn State because it wants to make money, that’s fine. Let’s keep it on that, though, and agree to separate ourselves from the media narrative that was just blown up with the news this series is coming back.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 1:41 pm

se Mvrck, if Pitt doesn’t matter to you then get the heck off this site!!

Can’t you see what a hypocrite you are just like hundereds of other PSU who continually claim to the public how Pitt doesn’t matter

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 1:42 pm

Whoa, you know, The Fan has fanned those flames. Curley was asked a question, and he answered it. I don’t see how he was arrogant, as the Fan’s talking heads would suggest. You’re right, Temple and Syracuse are not in the same ballpark. I don’t think either has asked for a long term 1 for 1 deal. The Temple series isn’t 1-1, it’s like 3-1. and the Syracuse series isn’t long term. The Fan is going to ride this because it’s fodder for discussion.

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 1:43 pm

Avoiding the financial aspect of a Pitt-PSU game, answer me this: Why wouldn’t a PSU grad living in Allegheny county (the largest contingent of PSU grads) want to see a local PSU game? Add to that, it’s a game between your most storied rival. Why in your right mind wouldn’t you want to see it? PSU fans get caught up in what’s best for the bottom line but why? The University is doing just fine. This is like 1984 and you’re being told what to think. Wake up, you’re a fan, you have the right to want to see this game local.

Comment by Jon 06.17.11 @ 1:47 pm

Whats funny is that the Nit Wits claim they dont care about Pitt yet look at the nitters that felt compeeled enough to come over to the Pitt blog and begin fueling the fire. Who says the rivalry is dead???

65 comments in a few hours….

2016 cant come fast enough!

Comment by Coach Ditka 06.17.11 @ 1:47 pm

‘PSU playing Rutgers, Temple, and Syracuse, is not in the same ballpark as playing Pitt consistently.’

That is where we disagree. The series is almost every bit as lopsided as PSU playing either of the aforementioned schools in the Paterno era. As a fairly young PSU grad (from the North Hills), I can tell you I don’t give a lick about playing Pitt. I’d much rather play a nationally relavant team, such as Miami.

I mean, what if PSU basketball wanted a long term series against Pitt. Would you care? I’d put PSU basketball on right about the same level as Pitt football on a scale of national relevance.

Comment by Xanto 06.17.11 @ 1:47 pm

Coach Ditka,
I don’t believe I’ve put Pitt down once in the entire course of this discussion.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 1:54 pm

@ Jon
I don’t think I ever said I didn’t care about Pitt. In fact, in an earlier post, I mentioned that there’s a contingent in Western PA that are genuinely excited, and the rest in Central PA and other parts of the country are more apathetic.

I don’t think we, as fans, are geting caught up in the bottom line, but we’re pointing to it as the primary reason this game isn’t played on a long term basis. Not one man with a grudge, not a feeling of superiorty, not a fear of playing Pitt…etc. It just is what it is.

And I don’t think it’ll ever have the same feel as the Thanksgiving weekend games of the past. That’s not meant as a backhanded remark. But in the 70’s and 80’s there was much more at stake -especially when you consider the timing. An early September meeting, while exciting, just won’t have the same appeal.

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 1:57 pm

I submit for your consideration that PSU is far less relevant on a national scene than it was a decade ago, despite what PSU fans would like to believe. Didn’t PSU go 7-6 in 2010?

Indeed, the Pitt program would derive far greater tangible benefit if it were to play and beat an SEC team than PSU for rankings purposes. I disagree with any notion that PSU is doing us any favor with the 2016 agreement.

Even “die hard” PSU fans born in 1985 should know that the rivalry was extremely important and would quickly renew its importance if it began again. The fact of the matter is that most PSU fans and alums were born well before 1985 and appreciate its significance.

Comment by A 06.17.11 @ 2:03 pm

Xanto, I’ll ask the same of you as I had asked Mvrck and countless number of other pSU fans … if you don’t give a lick about Pitt, why are you posting on this site? Surely, you must have better things to do with your time.

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 2:06 pm

Wbb, Pitt is not a bigger draw to me than Syracuse, Rutgers, Bama, etc. I went and posted on RBR before this years game. I post on the Iowa boards, on EDSB. Again, I’m sorry, but you are not special. You brought up a relevant PSU topic, so, yeah I’ll come talk about it because it deals with PSU. Not because it involves Pitt specifically.

Comment by Mvrck 06.17.11 @ 2:09 pm

Well, a decade ago, Penn State was mired in the worst 5 year stretch in our modern history, so I’d say you’d have to go further back. But yeah, the SEC is the media darling right now, so scheduling SEC teams bring instant credibility among the media-type, whethr it be warranted or not.

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 2:10 pm

Yeah, if the argument from PSU fans is that scheduling Pitt every year would cause PSU to have to drop a varsity sport (this assertion seems pretty improbable, in my opinion, but let’s go with it just for the sake of argument), how is this a good thing for fans of the football team? Of what practical value to you is a fully funded women’s softball team? Not very much, right? Obviously not, because nobody goes to watch the games except the players’ families and lesbian life-partners, no?

If I were you folks, I’d be a bit annoyed by the football program’s revenues being over-leveraged by the AD rather than chest-thumping and all self-congratulatory about how swell it is that PSU has 31 varsity sports, roughly 30 of which no one cares about, because according to you folks, apparently the practical result of this is that instead of getting an occasionally competitive game on the schedule, you’re stuck with Temple every year because they’re willing to play 3 for 1. Enjoy it, kids. And enjoy your women’s golf team, too.

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 2:12 pm


good point. I think I’m just some sort of masochist. Clearly I care just enough to let you know that I don’t care. And while I think it would be fun to zero in on exactly the amount of care I have, my best guess is somewhere between 0 and enough to rile up my buddies from high school. I’ll get out of here now though.

Comment by Xanto 06.17.11 @ 2:13 pm

@ Jeff. I think you may have just summed it up. You call it an air of superiority, but we call it the Grand Experiment. It transcends football. It transcends basketball. Yes, we are proud of our women’s golf team. We are proud of our fencing team, we are proud of our volley ball team. We are proud of any student athlete that represents the University. If a few fans with an inferiority complex get bent out of shape because of our the scheduling model, then so be it. If it means that countless students are able to compete in a sport of their choice while pursuing a quality education, then it’s more than worth it. We don’t feel we’re better than anyone else, but we are damned proud of ANYONE that represents us.

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 2:21 pm

As far as Mvrk’s argument that most alumni live outside the Commonwealth, please see page 2 of the below linked map:

link to

Comment by A 06.17.11 @ 2:23 pm

An alumni base of 291,210 (24,244 of whom in Allegheny Co.) is a political base worth satisfying.

Comment by A 06.17.11 @ 2:25 pm

Ah, great back and forth. Good points taken by both sides.

And what’s all this bother about JoePa? when it comes to Penn State athletic leadership one coach stands heads below all others: Rene Portland. She epitomizes what can happen in a cow pasture miles away from the glare of public exposure.

For more on Rene go check out “Training Rules” on Netflix.

Comment by steve 06.17.11 @ 2:32 pm

@Mvrck so you’re saying you monitor all the message boards of every PSU opponent from the next five years just in case you have to jump in and offer your insight? Impressive, man.

I think this has been a very effective dialogue in perpetuating the stereotypes that PSU fans are especially self-righteous, and Pitt fans are incredibly insecure.

Comment by Jason 06.17.11 @ 2:34 pm

58% of PSU’s alumni is based in PA as of 2010. Not only would the rivalry be important to that base, but it would also be economically successful. The “national perception” of Pitt as just another team is probably a minority opinion.

To my mind, the only argument against a series is that playing and beating an SEC team would have a greater impact on their national rankings than playing Pitt. The same is true for Pitt in that, rankings-wise, Penn State offers them no more of a benefit than if Pitt were to play Michigan St. In fact, probably less of a benefit in that regard.

Comment by A 06.17.11 @ 2:35 pm


You can be as proud as you like of anyone in a PSU uni, although I’d question just how proud anyone really is of athletes in most of those low-revenue sports you mentioned…if anyone really cared, odds are those teams wouldn’t be low-revenue sports, and they wouldn’t need to be subsidized by revenue from the football program. People vote with their wallets, and their wallets seem to be saying that PSU football means a lot, and pretty every other sport means a little. Nice try, though.

But that aside, one must still ask the question…why does it make sense to commit every last dollar the football program takes in for other non-revenue sports? As I said, you can be as proud as you like of athletes in those sports, but that does not entail getting a free ride on athletic expenses. Why not root for those athletes while still expecting those teams to pay (most) of their own way? Why not fund them through voluntary donations and endowments, the way the new D-I hockey program is being funded? That seems like a better way of doing business than through scheduling gimmicks in football to ensure that there’s at least 7 games in Beaver Stadium every year, 2 of which are against Temple and a D-IA opponent.

But hey, this comment is probably getting in the way of your self-congratulations, so…..

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 2:36 pm

I know Michigan St. is not an SEC team, by the way.

Comment by A 06.17.11 @ 2:37 pm

PSU’s identity as a national power went away shortly after joining the Big Ten. The basic facts are as follows:

Since 2000:

Record (including bowl games) 84-52

Big Ten Record: 49-39

Record vs Ohio State: 3-8

Record vs. Michigan: 3-6

Record vs Iowa: 1-8

Actual quality wins outside the conference: ????

Not really that impressive for a team that considers themselves a “National Power”

Comment by Coach Ditka 06.17.11 @ 2:45 pm

FWIW, here is the history of PSU vs its ‘storied’ rivals (non-B10):

Pitt: 96 PSU leads 50-42-4
Syracuse: 82 42-35-5
WVU: 59 48-9-2
Temple: 39 36-3
Maryland: 37 35-1-1
Rutgers: 24 22-2
ND: 19 9-9-1
Bama: 15 Bama leads 10-5
Miami and Nebraska: both 13 and PSU leads both 7-6

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 2:45 pm

@ Jeff,

No self-congratulations. That’s the model that the Athletic department follows. If a kid can go to school on a volleyball scholarship, then why not make it possible? Whether it’s low revenue or not, if the football program can be leveraged to support other varsity sports, and it’s a model that works, then why not follow it. It seems that certain Pitt fans are the only people that contend that the model doesn’t make sense.

And rather than disparage student athletes and make generalizations about their sexual orientation, why not just accept the fact that we’re playing in 2016/2017. Beyond that? Who knows.

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 2:46 pm

Adam, this is my last point. I said you grasped at straws because your argument consisted of:
Paterno walking a lot + Skyping recruits= Joe still being as powerful now as he was 10 years ago.

Sorry, but that is making assertions and forming your own opinion. The fact are these, Curley called Pitt, Steve agreed. JoePa has not been mentioned as being integral to any part of the negotiations. Therefore, what you presented is opinion, just like how I gave my opinion. It’s your opinion the Pgh media demonizes Joe, but I don’t see any evidence yet, including the renewal, to change the narrative presented.

Also, I’m not buying the story of cancelling other sports programs. Don’t think you brought that up though.

Comment by The Incline Blog Staff 06.17.11 @ 2:47 pm

Jeff if you are a an attorney I would like to put you on retainer. Articulate and dead on!

Comment by Coach Ditka 06.17.11 @ 2:52 pm

Coach Ditka, for the 25 year span before PSU joined the B10, eastern schools (Pit and PSU) actually won more NCAA championships than B10 schools 3-0.

PSU did have an undefeated ’94 season and was pretty competitive thru the 90s but faltered in the new millennium save 2005 and 2008

Not only did PSU falter against the B10 begining 2000, they are 01- and )-2 against eastern schools Pitt and BC respectively. They have beaten Temple and Syracuse over the past 5 years like most others.

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 2:52 pm

I’m not saying “the model” as you put it, doesn’t “work,” whatever that’s supposed to mean. What I’m saying is that the practical effect of “the model” in your “Grand Experiment” is to diminish the entertainment value of PSU football, which is really all PSU fans seem to care about anyway, by forcing the athletic department into scheduling whatever teams will guarantee 7-8 home games a year, rather than simply scheduling teams that their fans (ie, you) would actually like to see them play (which may or may not include Pitt, depending on your individual preference).

So in light of the above, it makes little sense for rational, clear-thinking Penn State fans and alumni whose allegiance is first and foremost to the football team (ie, all of them) to do anything other than lament the way Tim Curley has been running the Athletic Department. Yet I see few PSU fans doing so. Hmmm…..

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 3:01 pm

The Incline Blog,
Did you read the post? In it I cited a column by Ron Cook from 2000 claiming the sole reason the series stopped was Joe Paterno’s grudge against Pitt. You know darn right well the Pittsburgh media has lined up behind that narrative for 11 years. That’s not opinion. That’s fact.

And sure. I might be making assertions, but I’m basing them on something tangible. The only thing the Pitt camp seems to be basing this “Joe got run over by Curley” argument on is that fact that there weren’t any quotes in the press release.

As I pointed out above, he hasn’t commented in press releases for years, so why would he comment on Pitt? Because the media told everyone he has refused to schedule Pitt for years over a grudge? Does he have to answer for everything the media speculates/makes up?

Moral of the story is everything is status quo on Penn State’s end. The only thing that has changed is the way the Pittsburgh media is trying to spin Penn State’s actions to fit its narrative.

Comment by Adam 06.17.11 @ 3:12 pm

I would disagree about the entretainment value. Attendance numbers point to it. I know that people hate when this is pointed out, but despite who we have on the schedule, the stadium always has 106,000+. So, if fans are willing to buy a ticket, I would say that the entertainment demand is sated.

And why, pray tell, is a Pitt fan concerned about the entertainment value of a Penn State home game?

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 3:18 pm

any entertainment value that PSU may have had has been nullified by the constant droning of that ‘7th Nation’ song or whatever it is … that has to be one of the worst melodies I have ever heard

Comment by wbb 06.17.11 @ 3:38 pm

FACT: State Penn is mediocre and thinks they are better than reality dictates (10-20 vs Top 4 Big 10 teams since 2002).

FACT: JoePa is a bitter old fart and he and he alone is the reason why this great football rivalry was discontinued in the first place.

FACT: State Penn no longer has any historical rivals they play on the field each year.

FACT: The renewal of this rivalry between two great schools would generate millions for the Commonwealth each year and PA could sure use the money right now.

FACT: This rivalry is good for college football and true fans of this pastime.

FACT: State Penn has always thought of Pitt as the little brother and Pitt fans have always resented it.

FACT: Most Pitt fans think of Nitters as arrogant, but the Domers have you beat.

FACT: Only a lying troll Nitter would think the importance of this game doesn’t matter.

FACT: Only an assclown for an AD would require a 2 for 1 arrangement and think Pitt would ever agree to that.

FACT: State Penn has far too many programs to support (do you really need a polo team?), and the answer isn’t raising more revenue to support the bloated department but the medicine is painful cuts (live within your means).

FACT: JoePA poops his pants!

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 4:00 pm

Spats, which game do you expect the Beaver Stadium crowd to be more raucous or fired up for this fall: Indiana State or Alabama? Alabama, yes? If Curley were to drop Indiana State and replace them with a legit, D-I opponent, wouldn’t that improve the entertainment value of your PSU ticket purchases? The fact that 106k people are in the stands every game doesn’t suggest that you couldn’t improve the product on the field by changing the mix of opponents.

But you’re right that ultimately, as a Pitt fan, I don’t care. I don’t spend a dime on PSU athletics, so it doesn’t matter to me whether PSU plays the Temple-Rutgers-Ball State cup cake platter non-con or some murderer’s row of Texas, LSU, and the New England Patriots. My point was simply to respond to the argument someone else made regarding the scheduling inflexibility PSU supposedly suffers due to the no doubt dizzying array of other varsity sports PSU sponsors by essentially saying “maybe your AD should spend the fans’ money a bit more wisely, then,” and you proceeded to argue against this. As a Pitt fan stuck rooting for a team in a mediocre football conference, I would like to see a Pitt/PSU game played…if not every year, at least most years. I would like to convince PSU fans to support this as well, so I feel compelled to knock down fallacious, silly arguments they put up supporting the status quo.

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 4:04 pm

Adam – if you don’t have a rival, you have no soul. Tangible enough for you?

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 4:10 pm

I dig PSU trolls….they make me laugh.

Comment by Outlaw 06.17.11 @ 4:26 pm

Ahhh, its good to see Pitt’s little borther syndrome has led to usual spewing of malicious and fictitious diatribes leveled at Joe Paterno and the Penn State AD. Since we’re playing the facts game, lets name a few more

Fact: The AD decides the future schedules, not Joe Paterno
Fact: PSU offered Pitt a short term 1-1 series, which Pitt refused.
Fact: Pitt offered a lengthy 1-1 deal. Penn State refused.
Fact: Penn State offered a lengthy 2-1 deal, which Pitt refused, even though 66%+ of the games have been played in Pittsburgh

Fact: Penn State would be better off financially scheduling bigger name programs like Miami, Notre Dame, and Alabama, which we have done. Pitt does not offer nearly enough money for a 1-1 series to be viable for Penn State over a lengthened period of time. This is why the series was not continued. Seriously, its VERY SIMPLE ECONOMICS. It would be much better for Penn State to continue to play bigger, better name programs (Its why we were trying to schedule BYU or Miami over Pitt), OR continue to schedule big market teams (Rutgers-NYC & Jersey) Temple-Philly, Boston College-Boston, Syracuse- NY state) Theres a calculated way that Penn State does thing, and when you’re a dominate player like Penn State, you don’t want to go for middle tier teams with a small viewer base as your first choice. Those are the facts, and nothing but the facts.

Comment by ICE 06.17.11 @ 4:39 pm

Oh wow, some Pitt fan is probably going to respond to that and say “Well why dont you jus drop Indiana State and shedule us?”

Very simple. From Y’Town State alone last year PSU pulled in 12 million dollars post expenses. ISU and Y’Town will net ~24 million. A random ass projection on the Pitt #’s, but we’d probably grab 14-15 million (The number we pulled in when we faced Oregon State in 08′). It would also mandate that we do not face a big name opponent that year (Because the prerequisite # of HG’s a marquee program like us faces is 7). Either that, or schedule another brand name program and send the team through murders row, severly decreasing the chance of reaching a BCS Bowl. Thats why dropping a patsy makes no sense

Comment by ICE 06.17.11 @ 4:45 pm

You Nitters would whore your mother out for a buck.

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 4:55 pm

Now now, there’s no need to be infantile

Comment by ICE 06.17.11 @ 5:01 pm

Seems like a “dominate player” like PSU wouldn’t be so worried about having it’s BCS hopes dashed by scheduling one more competitive game a year, especially since the BCS has expanded and a Big Ten team won’t even need to win the conference championship to get a bid.

But that’s all irrelevant, right? Tim Curley can probably squeeze an extra $200 dollars out of the Big Ten Network if he schedules Indiana State, so bring on those Fighting Sycamores!

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 5:24 pm

I’m amused when people continue to cite Rutgers as a big market NYC school. It’s in the middle of Jersey, and no one here in NYC gives a damn about Rutgers football. Temple? No one in Philly cares. Syracuse? Only when it’s basketball season.
Fact is, Penn St schedules these teams because they are easy victories, and the propaganda team can spin them as “rivalry” games.

Comment by Hollywood 06.17.11 @ 5:29 pm

Hey PSU fans, just to get you fired up for the big opening game in August, here’s some more important facts for you:

Feel The Rush!
Athletics and sports are a big part of campus life at Indiana State. The university participates in intercollegiate athletics as a NCAA Division I institution and as a member of the Missouri Valley Conference. The university also offers extensive recreational and club sport opportunities for our students. Sycamore spirit is alive and well and support for our athletic programs and academic support services for student athletes has been recognized far and wide. Our coaches and players stress learning first and a team approach to all things. Check out information about Sycamore Athletics at

Our athletes are encouraged to be leaders on and off the field. That is apparent by their recent successes:

Indiana State student-athletes captured the inaugural Missouri Valley Conference Academic Excellence Award for having the highest GPA among conference schools.

In the past year, eight ISU athletic teams ranked nationally due to their academic successes.

Kylie Huston, in her junior season in 2009, won the NCAA Division I National Championship in both the indoor and outdoor pole vault competition.

Woohoo! I can see the promos now: Nittany Lions! Sycamores! This Saturday in Happy Valley! The game might be over at halftime, but your hangover will last most of the day!

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 5:30 pm

I may be infantile, I’ll grant you that one, but the truth hurts, doesn’t it? Go on and be happy about your money making machine since apparantly that’s the primary driver behind everything your school stands for. Relish the fact that you have no legitimate rivals in your Midwest conference. Keep thinking of yourselves as dominant while the rest of the country mocks you. Keep trying to rationalize why State Penn shouldn’t be asked to ‘sacrifice’ for the greater good of the sport and Commonwealth. Good riddance to you then Nitters and nice knowing you.

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 5:38 pm

Nebraska, Ohio State, Michigan/Iowa, Wisconsin, & Pitt. That’s already a tough schedule. Add Alabama/Miami/Whoever and there’s an extremely small chance that PSU would make a BCS bowl. This can be said for Oklahoma, Florida State, Oregon, Whoever you want. No team will commit schedule suicide unless they need the money (See: Colorado)

It would be propaganda if PSU wouldn’t draw huge crowds for those games (See: Boston College, Miami). Guess what? Nobody cares about BC in Boston. It still drew record crowds. Ever been to Miami before? Yeah, not many people care about the Canes’ there too. Yet, those games still drew record crowds. The only propaganda is the one you’re believing.

Now Texas, there’s no need to strawman any arguments. Nobody ever said that our school only stands for money. If it did, then that would be bad business.

Now then, no legitimate rivals? I guess we’re ignoring the Ohio State players that have said that Penn State is the game that they look forward too the most? We’re ignoring Nebraska, who we already have a huge tradition with? There’s no need to be credulous with the Pitt media machine

Comment by ICE 06.17.11 @ 5:59 pm

Penn State’s lost 8 of their last 11 against Ohio State. I’d be eager to play the Lions too if I were them.

Comment by Jeff 06.17.11 @ 6:13 pm

Well good, then you share the same sentiment that Ohio State players do. See, now you’re in agreement with them.

Comment by ICE 06.17.11 @ 6:26 pm

psu often loses to perennial top 10 teams that are on our schedule every year? sure, not surprising considering the timeframe you are referencing includes 4 of the 5 losing seasons joe paterno has had. ever. thats 5 losing seasons in 45 years. pitt has had 8 losing seasons since psu joined the big ten. lol.

while we’re discussing records, what is joe pa’s record against pitt? you know, in the only rivalry that matters that must be played annualy?

i’ll wait for the answer.

Comment by hamulus 06.17.11 @ 7:03 pm

I’m a Pitt alum and regular on this site. And I hate psu as much as the next guy. However, I don’t know why we should be kicking and screaming about getting that game on the schedule every year. As far as I’m concerned, psu would benefit from it more than we would. The reason is that there are a ton of Pittsburgh area kids they’d like to recruit. But there aren’t too many from around State College who we’re trying to recruit. From that standpoint, they’d benefit more than we would.
Second, and just being brutally honest here, it’s a game we should expect to win about 1 in 3 times in the long run. It’s probably like what you’d expect in the Michigan/Michigan State series, or something like that. While it’s delicious when we do beat them, it’s just gutting when we lose. And if we would expect to lose the majority, that would be hard to live with.
In the last several years, I think they’ve been underachieving with a super old coach. But there are a lot of pieces in place for that program to be dominant. I hate to think what they’ll do with the right coach. I mean, you can do a lot with a 100K+ stadium full every single week. That means game atmosphere, better bowls, more money, better tv exposure, etc. We don’t have all of that at Pitt, so I don’t see why we should be 50-50 with them in the long run.
Now, if they want to play us in basketball, sign me up baby. I’d love to see some of that.

Comment by Lollard 06.17.11 @ 7:10 pm

I’d say Penn State recruits the Pittsburgh area just fine without playing Pitt.

Comment by Spats 06.17.11 @ 9:34 pm

Yeah, I suppose so. But I dunno why I’d want to give them another advantage in doing so. I’d say the same about playing Ohio State again.

Comment by Lollard 06.17.11 @ 9:38 pm

For cryin out loud, tO$U does not and never will consider State Penn their chief rival despite what some half baked tatoo covered players think. Face it, you have no historic rivals in this midwestern conference. You stopped playing your main rival back in 1997 when you lost 12-0 and were afraid to lose more games to an ‘inferior’ opponent. I understand…you Nitters don’t want to play Pitt for a variety of reasons – Pitt won’t accept a 2 for 1, we need to schedule a non-regional because we are a national ‘dominate’ school, we value money over history and tradition, we’ll start being out-recruited by a lowly Big East team, we might actually lose and that will blow our championship dreams, we need to support our women’s curling team and the other 30 programs, Pitt refuses to drink our coolaid, Pitt fans say ugly things about our beloved coach, we might get mugged while in the city, Pitt will ban marshmellow throwing at Heinz Field, etc, etc. The bag of excuses is very deep. Maybe I’ll make a list of the top 10 excuses for some good laughs. Point is that Pitt wants this bad because the Pitt administration values what a long history of playing each other means to the region, fans and alumni of both schools. It goes beyond wins and loses. Moreover, when Nebraska has played you 97 times, you then have the right to talk about them being a rival. Your history with the Huskers pales to what you have with Pitt. And your record isn’t that great in the conference since joining. Only 22 and 38 against the Big 4. You beat up on the Indiana’s and lose to the good teams. Tells me that JoePa lost it well before he began to poop his pants.

Comment by TX Panther 06.17.11 @ 10:42 pm

As a Pitt fan, I truly enjoy the rivalry we have with WVU. It gives all Pitt fans something to look forward to no matter what every year. With PSU not having any rivalries, my thought would be that they would like to start playing the biggest one they’ve ever had on a regular basis again. I’m only old enough to remember the 97-00 games and I looked forward to them as much as the WVU games. The 12-0 win was as awesome as the 27-24 blocked field goal game was devastating. If Penn State fans truly don’t think the rivalry is in the best interest for both schools that’s disappointing for all college football fans. Somehow, someway this is a game that should be played every year no matter what.

Comment by Pitt Rob 06.17.11 @ 10:55 pm

@Pitt Rob- hammer meet nail. This thread is proof enough alone that it should be an annual meeting. I guess most PSU fans only care about money instead of tradition, passion, and things that actually take place on the football field. Its like buying a new TV, you may lose a little more money buying the one you really like, but when you see it perform its all worth it.

Comment by The Incline 06.17.11 @ 11:32 pm

I was waiting for the ‘psu is scared to schedule Pitt,12-0 ha!’ argument, a classic! Please tell me who won the 7 consecutive previous contests between Pitt and PSU. Maybe that will give us State Penn fans some insight into why the epic 12-0 BEATDOWN made Joe so scared to schedule our arch nemesis.

I don’t know what makes you more angry: the fact a geriatric Joe Pa has always and will always own Pitt, or that we just don’t care about you enough to make you feel relevant in football.

Still waiting on Joe Pa’s all time record vs Pitt, Tx Panther.

Comment by hamulus 06.17.11 @ 11:35 pm

in all seriousness, I would like for the universities to try to work out an arrangement to play every 3 or 4 years. Its not feasable doing the yearly interconference matchups, but giving fans a few games per decade should be enough to keep the HATE going, although it seems there’s enough to go around as it is.

Comment by hamulus 06.17.11 @ 11:49 pm

You can brag all you want of poopy pants ownership of Pitt. It matters not to me and doesn’t diminish the rivalry aspect from my perspective. Heck, playing Pitt again probably scares bitter JoePa enough that he’s missing the toilet as I type. And I don’t need a Nitter to feel relevant nor does the program need your school to feel better. If you want to throw away something good for both sides, so be it. If something, however, can be worked out longer than a one for one, just don’t expect Pitt to bend over and accept a disrespectful 2 for 1 deal.

Comment by TX Panther 06.18.11 @ 12:26 am

PSU should think out of the box. Renew both football AND basketball series.

Hell, that way they may even get a full house for hoops every other year.

Comment by steve 06.18.11 @ 7:16 am

Personally, I wish they never would have signed it. I liked having 12-0 winning the last game over my Penn St. nephews, nieces and friends.

On the surface they will say it doesn’t bother them, get some Jack or Johnnie in them, and watch the bitterness come out. “ok, ok, it pisses me off, I want to play one more time, win, and end it”. The truth serum always works!!!

The next day, they’ll tell you “it was a meaningless game”

Get the Jack and Johnnie out again and “I hate effin’ Pitt” will come out again!! LMAO!!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 9:59 am

Yes, I’m well aware of 48-14, nothing makes me cringe worse. Losing the last game of any series in any sport is a bitter taste.

Cancel the series now!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 10:01 am

@ TX Panther,

Would you make one point and stand by it, for pete’s sake?

At 10:42 last night,you said “Point is that Pitt wants this bad because the Pitt administration values what a long history of playing each other means to the region, fans and alumni of both schools. It goes beyond wins and loses.”

Then less than 2 hours later, you said “I don’t need a Nitter to feel relevant nor does the program need your school to feel better.”

Did you not take your meds or something?

Comment by Spats 06.18.11 @ 10:04 am

Why are we focused so much on psu? Look I miss the rivalry like the next guy. Attended PITT through 80’s and enjoyed the rivalry. PITT has moved on. WVU has displaced psu as our rival. It may not have seemed that way 10 yes ago but it is today. The national media has anointed it as they once did with PITT vs psu. ND has also continued itsmstoried tradition with PITT. While I miss the PITT – psu game it probably caries less significance today for us with WVU and ND on the schedule. I see it more and more like PITT basketball vs psu basketball… Little importance at all. PITT basketball is a national power that doesn’t have any business playing pus basketball. The reality is that neither PITT football or psu football carries any real national significance right now. The games draw was thrown away decades ago by emotionally charged administrators and a coach who couldn’t understanding the marketing concept of “branding”.

Time to move on. WVU and ND are fine rivals in my book. Let psu find their own annual game of significance. Perhaps it is Temple.

Comment by Pitt fan in Atlanta 06.18.11 @ 10:43 am

Now now Texas, there’s no need to Strawman another argument. Rival isn’t tantamount to chief Rival, never has, never will. Now, you ask any Nebraska fan about which team they have the most history with and they’ll say us. Seriously, go ask one. We’ve got a lot of history with them despite only facing them 13 times. It’s what happens when two dominate teams play.

Yes, we have more history with Pitt, but that’s only because we’ve played more. Fact of the matter is that after 1950 it hasn’t been a rivalry, it’s been a domination. Maybe PSU fans want a rival that can touch us on the football field? Now, I don’t feel like going the economics anymore. If you want an economics lesson Texas, then I’d be happy to teach you one if you send me an email (

Now now Texas, there’s no value in following the delusions your AD puts forth. If Pitt values rivalries, then they’d also schedule Navy every year. But they don’t, so we can figure out that Pitt doesn’t value rivalries, which takes away that point.


Comment by ICE 06.18.11 @ 11:13 am

“The reality is that neither PITT football or psu football carries any real national significance right now.”

Finish the past 3/6 years ranked in the top 10, 5/6 ranked, 3/6 Big Ten MVP’s, top 5 team in terms of ratings and leading the Big Ten in ratings means we don’t have national significance?

Comment by ICE 06.18.11 @ 11:15 am

2/6, not 3 :/

Comment by ICE 06.18.11 @ 11:16 am

Comment by steve 06.18.11 @ 12:52 pm

why play this game? This is comment No. 132 here .. and almost all of them are about a game being played 5 years from now … ’nuff said.

Comment by wbb 06.18.11 @ 1:52 pm

Then iceman, you’ll have no rivals at all. Michigan and Ohio State look at Penn St., like you look at Pitt.

Like I said, I enjoy having the bragging rights, I know, I know, meaningless game. Games don’t count when you lose, right?

Yes, the hell with it, cancel the series!!!

Enjoy that end of the year Land Grant Trophy, I know everyone gets fired up over that one!! LMAO!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 2:03 pm

By the way, what is it, 42-50-1 or something like that. I’d debate you’ve dominated, but, even if I give you that, ok, so Pitt dominated the first half then. na na na na na na!!!!!!!

Poor point!!

I will say then, Pitt has dominated the last 11 years!!! A- woooo!!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 2:07 pm

Who has the longest winning streak against one and other?? Pitt, 14 straight over PSU!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 2:12 pm

Maybe if you get to a Rose Bowl again someday, maybe you can tie Pitt for the number of times both have gone? Pitt- 4 Bowls Penn St. 3

Yep, we won one too!!! Took you long enough to finally win one!!! A-woooo!!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 2:16 pm

See how silly some of my points are?? Just as yours are. A rivalry is a rivalry.

Let me help you get over yourself.

There are no need to tell “stories” on here, who cares right, so pure truth coming your way.

My best man, my bro-n-law, 3 nephews and 2 nieces have graduated from PSU. One nephew and one cousin there now, oh, also, a neighbor.

My point being, I have a pretty good feel about PSU. A couple PSU posters will back me up from yesterday, coming to their defense when some jokes got nasty about Joe. Look it up, you’d be suprised.

All of them texted, phoned an emailed as soon as they heard. They are all pumped!!

It’s a defense mechanism to use Ohio St. and Michigan as your rivals. We use them too. “who do they think they are”, “an ag school in the middle of nowhere” etc. etc. We all use defense mechanisms in the heat of discussion.

Over a couple beers, they all say the same thing, Michigan and Ohio St we like to think are our rivals, but, they don’t think that way about us.

My nephew said it best, as soon as he heard, “my blood is boiling allready”, and he is only 29 years old. I myself 41, so not like I’m 90.

My nephews and nieces are allready talking about tailgating both, whose gonna get tix, get a Winnebago, etc. etc.!!!

I do know some, will keep that nose in the air, “we are national, we have to go to Birmingham and Seattle” etc. etc. You gotta get
over that, and just come out and admit, “ya, it really would be cool to get the rivalry back on every year”

If you are younger, I will also tell you, I left more brain cells in the Skeller, Cafe Too Expensive (thats what we called the Cafe), The Brewery (with the Mighty Ducks playing), the Ginerbread Man, Champs, and ate Pizza from the Pizza Nazi before you were born!!!

And my final thing, I’m fine with not playing again, because my nephews and nieces who are 28-33 years old are so pissed that the last game was a Pitt win!!!!

After all this b.s., Pitt-Penn St. should be playing every year, and everybody knows it, even if they won’t admit it.

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 2:36 pm

p.s. When I use to party up there, the Cafe did not have Long Island Friday, hence, the expense.

There was another one…..oh, The Phyurst!!!! Still there??? Think the family broke up. And yes my PSU friends and family all left a lot of brain cells down at Pitt!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 2:40 pm

Now Dan, there’s no need to strawman my argument. Chief rivals =/= main rival, nobody is debating that. That being saod, we are Ohio State’s #2. That isn’t from me, thats from just about any Ohio State fan (or player). Michigan we’re usually #4. Whp do you think Nebraska wants to beat the most next year? Thats us. That seems far from being looked at as the same way we look at you. Either way, the Land Grant is gone. Still, MSU was better competition than most of the BE. Either way, its Wisconsin now at the years end, which again, is a better team. You can have the first half. Congrats on dominating us when we didnt give out athletic scholarships. The rest seemed irrelevant or fictitious.

Comment by ICE 06.18.11 @ 2:47 pm

I know I’m a hog, only time I’ll get to use the computer this weekend, so forgive me.

Whatever you come back with, please, not the money thing. I will guarantee you (no way to ever do it) that at least %75 of Penn State fans in New Jersey (Rutgers), Syracuse and Philadelphia (Temple), would much rather get to go to State College and Pittsburgh every year to watch Penn St, than get to go to the old Carrier dome, Lincoln Field, or Rutgers stadium in their own back yards to watch Penn St play Rutgers, Syracuse or Temple. Go tailgating with no atmoshpere against a nobody, or make a weekend out of a rivalry that everyone has friends and family on both sides. Paaaaaaalease!!!!

Ok, I’m done. You all have the board back!!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 2:48 pm

That was also irrelevant and wrong :/

Also the carrier dome has an atmosphere, as does Meadowlands :/

Comment by ICE 06.18.11 @ 3:12 pm

Ohio State only has one rival my friend, they look at you like you look at us!!! Keep on dreaming if it makes you feel better.

Because you played Nebraska a couple times years ago, Nebraska wants a piece of Penn States ass?? Ya, ok, keep on making up rivalries in your mind. If it makes you feel better, good for you.
Got news for you, Nebraska is waiting to get to Ann Arbor and Columbus. It’s just the way it is. It’s the big two and the rest. Can’t be helped. Always has been, always will be.

You could put Florida, Miami, FSU, USC, Texas, Oklahoma all in the Big Ten………still gonna be Ohio State and Michigans conference. Just the way it is.

Ya, Penn St-Wisconsin will have the nation on the edge of their seat!! Well, at least in Madison and State College.

Hey Iceman, I’m with you, bag it!!! First to admit Big East is poor, if Pitt’s coach can turn the program up a couple notches, much easier to get to a BCS game!!

I see no need for Penn State. Other than it makes fun times for people that have graduated, or have friends and family that graduated from there to have a good time at the games and have something to fight about all year.

Besides, we have a national, natural rivalry with WVU. Yes, admittedly, I believe the Pitt PSU game is bigger, but, that’s just me.

At least we have a national, natural rivalry game, and don’t have to make any up.

By the way, I love the State College area, love Penn States atmosphere, but, you are dreaming if you think Columbus or Ann Arbor really cares about you.

Hey, good day, I say call up and cancel, best for both!! You keep playing Temple, Syracuse, Eastern Michigan and Ohio Bobcats and we’ll keep playing Maine, Buffalo, Delaware and Villanova.

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 3:16 pm

Now, I know what I’m dealing with if you think the Carrier dome and Meadowlands has atmoshphere!!! Are you out of your mind?? Are you really a college football fan? End of discussion, you can have the last word, because I’ve never heard anyone say that!!! LOL

Did you mean for a Syracuse basketball game???

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 3:18 pm

One more, you’re stunned!!! Go to wikipedia and look up Pitt-Penn St rivalry. You’ll see the 14 game streak.

Go to wikipedia my friend, look up Rose Bowl results, fictitious, no, sorry my friend, both true!!!!

That’s cool though, so, if you’re saying only the last 50 years is relevant, dominated I could still debate, far from it, but at least you admit that the last game was relevant, that you lost to Pitt.

Thank goodness, someone yesterday said something like, well only recent history is relevant………………………………………except the 2001 game!!!

Wanted it both ways, was actually saying, “every game is relevant….except the ones we lost, they were meaningless”

Sounded like a second grader, glad to hear you agree cause I love stickin’ it to bro-n-law and nephews!!!!

Have a good weekend.

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 4:07 pm

:/ wrong again. Like I said, go ask those fans. I have the Nebraska, Ohio State, and Michigan fanbases on my sode. You have…. Yourself. It’s crazy to call WVU-Pitt “national” when PSU-Wisconsin has blanked it in national media coverage. There’s a reason why we’re the most watched team in Big Ten and one of the most watched teams in the nation. Saying the Big 2 and rest just discredits yourself.

The Cuse had a good atmosphere for PSU-Syracuse. Maybe not Pitt, but for PSU yes. Same for meadowlands.

Fictitious-Pitt has dominated the past 11 years
Irrelevant- Rose Bowl wins
Strawman- me saying the years before 1950 didnt matter

There are you mistakes. Best of the weekend to you too!

Comment by ICE 06.18.11 @ 4:27 pm

Why is the Rose Bowl irrelevant?? Is your 94 Rose Bowl relevant?? Just wondering where your personal cut off period is????

Not strawman, you’ve implied it doesn’t matter.

If only relevant is since you’ve graduated, became a fan etc. etc. then, in my nephews and neices world, Pitt has dominated in the last 11 years!! As a matter of fact, the last shut out Penn State has had. No wait, I think Iowa has shut you out a couple of times. The same Iowa team that Pitt beat two years ago. That’s right.

I don’t know any fans that get “pumped” for PSU-Wisconsin. Even my little inner circle, ho-hum!!

I’m not trying to beat on ya, all you all year is everyone talking about Ohio State Michigan, on t.v., the announcers, ESPN, etc. etc. just the truth, no biggie. Watch the first national Big Ten game of the year on t.v., they will be talking about Ohio State Michigan at the end of the year, that’s all.

You only have one “natural” rival, Pitt. Fact. Nothing to be mad about, others are made up, that’s all. You can’t do anything about it, if you know the meaning of a “natural” rival.

I think I might know you, or some of your friends, the only thing that is relevant is when Penn State wins or does something positive, but, when losing or negative, “doesn’t matter, meaningless”, yes, I know you.

I’ve tried to be civil, defend Joe, said I partied in Penn State, said I love the town of State College.

You just keep towing the company line, ya, I know you!!!

Have fun at the Temple game, I’m sure ESPN will have their trucks there!!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 5:05 pm

Amazing … this paticular blog was created over 34 hours ago and we are still getting comments from PSU people … just think if they cared??

Comment by wbb 06.18.11 @ 5:23 pm

Also Iceman, noticed you called out TxPanther.

Funny, you said Pitt’s 4 Rose Bowl appearances were fictitious.

Then, you looked it up, and said, “holy sh@t, Pitt has been to the Rose Bowl 4 times”, then, suddenly, it goes from fictitious to irrelevant!!!

LMAO!!! Good luck against Iowa. Maybe that will be your rivalry……ah, actually though, one team has to win sometime for it to become a real rivalry!!!! LOL!!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 5:37 pm

I think I know what you’re problem is, little man disease (regarding PSU football).

You see, I admit you have a nice atmoshphere up there, and that you’ve had a consistenly better program than ours, you really can’t get me, I know this!! Freely admit it.

What your problem is, I think that you think, that you are on the same level as Notre Dame, USC, Florida, Texas, Alabama. That’s the problem.

You’re in the second tier, I give you that. You’re in with Fla. State, Miami, LSU and Auburn. Yes, Auburn, even though a nat champ, never will be in the blue bloods, will always be Alabama’s little brother.

See, I’m not disrespecting you or Penn State, I admit they are good, I think, you just have a loftier opinion of the program, than, actually where they are in the realm of things.

There is where you’re having the problem. The sooner you realize, “hey we’re good, but not a national power” I think the better off you’ll be in debating your program.

There is your lesson for the day, you’re welcome!!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 5:46 pm

FWIW, from 0 high school recruits on Thursday to the following commits in addition to the 3 transfers:

Brandyn Cook OL 6-2/290
Marzett Geter DB 5-10/180
Myles Hilliard DE 6-6/242
William Parks DB 6-2/180
Trenton Coles WR/DB 6-2/175

Coles has just been reproted by Zeise, P-G – another recruits from Clairton. The 2 linemen above are from Ohio, Parks from Eastern PA and Geter from StoRox

Comment by wbb 06.18.11 @ 5:58 pm

Since Penn St doesnt want to play more than 2 games Pitt should offer Ohio State a long term series!!!!! 1988 Pitt 46 Ohio St 10 F

Comment by RandyRndyTime 06.18.11 @ 6:26 pm

off topic, but pretty interesting. Looks like WVU players back at Greentree this summer. See what Epps, Birch, D Johnson and M Gilbert look like

link to

Comment by wbb 06.18.11 @ 6:49 pm

Oh, in answer to a fellow poster the other day, as people were recalling where they drank, and especially since I admitted to having left some brain cells at PSU, when I was at Pitt 83′-87′, the main places were at that time…

The Upstage
The Dirty O’ for 40’s and the largest small fries
I’ve ever seen, even to this day!

People from my era, there was another one, across the street from Zeldas, nevermind, got it…

The Santucary!!! LOL

One story, only time I ever put my forearm under someones chin. No, freely admit, I am no “tough guy”, “bad ass” or fighter.

Bouncer at Zeldas took my fake I.D.. My buddy had been working forever to get me one. Finally, we go to the towers, guy has his room set up with a screen and everything!! Very sophisticated for that time!!! LMAO

Anyhow, still standing outside stewing, bouncer goes to the can, luckily no other bouncer came to stand. I went down to the restroom if you want to call it that and confronted him. Again, no bad ass by any means, but, I am a pretty big guy, and I don’t remember him as being some monster or anything you see today.

True story, I go nuts, or should I say, I acted nuts with wild eyes and all, I remember this because I was completely sober.

The guy gives me my id back, and says, people usually give me 10 bucks to give em back you didn’t have to be a dick!!! LOL

I gave him 10 bucks anyhow walking out the door!!!
Figured I might need him some day.

Next time I saw him, I apologized, just another student trying to get by.

I haven’t thought about that for years, or the restrooms in some of those places with the writing on all of the walls.

Ah…..Great times!!!

Comment by Dan 06.18.11 @ 7:15 pm

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Comment by Scholarships For African Americans 06.19.11 @ 4:14 am

The rivalry will never be the same because much less is at stake. In the seventies and eighties when both were in the top ten. Bowl games, even championships were on the line.

However the game should be played every year for two reasons, bragging rights and the economic impact on the City of Pittsburgh and the State of PA. Both schools are subsidized by state taxes. If the economic impact is 12 Million, 7% goes to the state in sales tax. State income tax and local taxes are increased as well as the benefits to hotels restaurants state stores, vendors etc. All of this should benefit PA and Pittsburgh, and our bone headed Governor and Legislators should mandate it, since we collectively foot the bill for these universities. Temple should be included as well. Look what Phillie fans brought to the Burgh this year. State taxes built the stadiums as well.

Comment by gc 06.19.11 @ 9:29 am

While reading all of these posts, I’d forgotten how much I love to hate Penn State! It feels so good to spout that old familiar phrase, “Penn State Sucks”. In response I hear “Shit on Pitt”! Welcome back you PSU football brethren. 5 years out and we’re already at each other’s throats. I appreciate having PSU back again in my football thoughts, negative as they are. Hail to Pitt!

Comment by Dr. Tom 06.19.11 @ 9:50 am

I’m sorry Nitters. You win. Let’s not try to find a way to play each other each year or possibly 6 years out of 10 (3 home vs. 3 away). You consider Nebraska your rival now. You need the money to support your athletic programs. You think of Pitt as the inferior program. But, I think you need us more than we need you at this point. You need us for a true rival. OSU lives to beat Michigan each year. All other schools are their number 2. Mighty arrogant to think of yourselves as every Midwestern school’s #2. We need you because we value history and tradition and know this would be a good thing for the region, the fans, the alumni, and for the spirit of college football, but I guess this matters not to you? And, Pitt doesn’t ask Navy for a disrespectful 2 for 1 deal. And, we don’t go nearly 20 years without playing our rivals due to a petty grudge. So, go ahead and have fun losing to the Huskers and Buckeyes each year and seeing that sea of red in your stadium and their fans thinking of this rivalry as an afterthought.

Comment by TX Panther 06.19.11 @ 3:04 pm

(Expletive laden rant warning)

How we cut all this talking out for now, and Pitt just goes out their and whoops the shit out of them in ’16-’17.

Seriously, I could care less about all of this political/revenue talk.

Just play the games, kick the fuck out of them, and shut their fans up. That’s what it’s all about!

Then the nitters can talk about their damn revenue, nationwide popularity, etc etc all they fucking want!

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Comment by Jineefradia 06.20.11 @ 12:50 am

I love the line coming from the State Penn that they can’t commit to a long term agreement because they have to consider their alumni across the US and play a national schedule so their alumni can see them…that is hilarious since their whole non-conference schedule year in and year out is played at home…

Comment by Leaseman 06.20.11 @ 2:45 pm

Let’s get something straight: Penn State/Pitt has been played at Pitt about 2/3rds of the time, so a 2 – 1 deal would only even it out.

If we’re talking about equity and schools being on equal footing, then it’s the right thing to do.

Comment by misd 06.20.11 @ 7:25 pm

I love when the Nit Wits enter the discussion. You can always count on a few points:

1.) Within about 2 minutes of arguing Pitt/State Penn, the nit wit will start quoting attendance figures… Attendance is the key statistic to any true nit witter. Any time a Pitt fan has the edge in an argument you can expect to hear “ya but we have 106,000 at every game so nya nya nya nya nya”

2.) You can never cite 2000 to 2004 in any arguments. Those seasons do not exist to nit wits. Some black hole swalled the universe and spit it back out in 2005 therefore all of those statistics have been wiped from the ncaa record book.

3.) Anything Pitt accomplished prior to 1970 does not count. Again, those seasons do not exist to nit wits.

4.) The football team arrests are just a case of college kids being kids…You know having a few drinks underage…the rapes, stabbings, beatings, and robberies do not count.

I hope the nit witters stay aboard the blog for the next 5 years…isnt this fun???

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[…] to play Pitt, along with many others tall tales.  Fellow babysitters, The Incline Blog Staff, even their take on this the other day right here at Pitt […]

I just don’t get it with Penn State. Doesn’t anyone in State College want to have a rivalry game? Is money all that matters anymore? I mean seriously making this game happen shouldn’t be this difficult. There are Lions alumni in Pittsburgh last time i checked.

Comment by Alex P 06.21.11 @ 9:28 pm

Here are some facts…..

It takes PSU fans to fill up this blog, just like it will take them to fill up your stadium in 2016.

We may have lost some big games, but at least we play in them. On Saturdays, not Thursday nights so someone HAS to watch.

If you guys think Paterno didn’t endorse the Pitt games, you’re on Pluto. Or Heinz Field on a Saturday, both about as empty a place.

The State Penn thing is cute, but didn’t you guys ranks ahead of us in at least one poll.

Comment by Bill 06.22.11 @ 9:16 am

Bill, I’m really tired about this filling up the stadium garbage. Pitt plays in a city, Penn State plays in a cow pasture. Pitt, as well as Georgia Tech, Boston Coll., Miami, Washington, Maryland, TCU, etc. all struggle to fill their stadiums. Fans only go to see city schools play when they are winning big. Your so much better than us for filling your stadium up against Youngstown State and East Stroudsburg. Please. You’ve never won the Big Ten outright just like us and you’re only slightly better than average in your conference. Plus, at least there’s things to do here. PSU football is the ONLY form of entertainment in State College, period.

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