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April 2, 2011

I’m pulling for VCU at this point. Probably the kiss of death, but what the hell. Least evil team at this point for me.

About the only way I can find myself pulling for Butler is if they play Kentucky on Monday.

Kentucky is one of those teams I find easy to actively root against.

UConn. Well, there is the whole Big East solidarity thing, but we aren’t in the SEC, and those ridiculous S-E-C chants.

I hate destiny, fate and all that other crap. The fact that Butler and UConn could very well end up with those stories written if they win it all would render Pitt merely a footnote in those stories. I may be drinking hard(er) tonight.





FWIW, as long as Kentucky don’t win, I really don’t care who does ….. either a team from the BE or a mid-major.

Comment by wbb 04.02.11 @ 4:38 pm

I meant to say … either the 9th place team from the BE or a md-major

Comment by wbb 04.02.11 @ 4:39 pm

FWIW, here’s my Final Four preview: link to sportstatistics.blogspot.com

Comment by merlin 04.02.11 @ 5:13 pm

Im not bitter. This has been a great tourney and we lost so early there were no guarantees at a Final Four even if we made the Sweet 16

Comment by Tony Cancilla 04.02.11 @ 5:51 pm

Myers, not Tino, receives kudos:
link to pittsburghpanthers.com

Comment by steve 04.02.11 @ 6:15 pm

well steve, FWIW, you may have noted that Graham stressed the work they were doing with kick-off coverage, yet according to Zeise, the opening kickoff today from retuend for a TD by Buddy Jackson

Comment by wbb 04.02.11 @ 7:18 pm

Butler withstood a 15-2 VCU run and are up at halftime. No guarantee they will win, but give credit where it is due, they are one tough unit

Comment by wbb 04.02.11 @ 7:21 pm

Omar and friends, DO YOU STILL THINK MACK AND HOWARD AREN’T AS GOOD AS THE PITT PLAYERS?

Comment by wbb 04.02.11 @ 8:27 pm

Mack and Howard would be our 2 best

Comment by Tony Cancilla 04.02.11 @ 10:34 pm

Tony, thanks but where were you 2 weeks ago when I took Omar to task on that but, as usual, I got assaulted on this site for not at looking at eveythng thru blue and gold glasses.

Anyway .. as I’m sure we all know, our two post-season losses were in the final second tothe teams in the national championship game

Comment by wbb 04.02.11 @ 11:19 pm

Well, I guess there has to be some consolation in that the last two teams to beat Pitt, both on last second shots, are playing for the National Championship on Monday night.

And, Calhoun just mentioned Pitt calling them one of the best teams in America in his post game interview. I now hate him just a little less.

Comment by TampaT 04.02.11 @ 11:21 pm

The last two that beat us play for the championship. We could have been playing UCONN for the Championship, but I don’t think we ever looked as good as either of them did today.

Comment by gc 04.02.11 @ 11:22 pm

Haha sorry wbb I just thought it was pretty obvious. Mack is the only superstar and the only one getting drafted among Pitt and Butler. Mack vs Walker will be quite a show

Comment by Tony Cancilla 04.02.11 @ 11:33 pm

Does this make us the 3rd best team in the country? This is kinda making it more devastating. I mean we are a missed free throw from beating the team that’s playing for the national championship. More talent or not, that’s frustrating to think about. It really makes me wonder what we have to do to get there. Mack and Howard may be better than any two players we had, but there’s no doubt that in that game Brown was at worst the 2nd best player on the floor that day. I’m not discounting wbb’s point, I’m just saying that when we played them they didn’t have the two best players for that particular game.

Comment by Pitt Rob 04.02.11 @ 11:47 pm

wbb: I had said Mack and Brown were the two most talented players on the court and it showed in that game. I guess because I included Gil no one attacked me.

Tony: Have you seen Dokish’s suggested starting lineup for next year? I think you’ll like it and his comments…
link to bebballreportpitt.blogspot.com

Comment by TampaT 04.02.11 @ 11:50 pm

Pitt Rob, I believe Omar’s statement was that Butler didn’t have the best 3 players on the court .. he claimed that Brown, Wannamaker and Gibbs were better than anyone from Butler

Note that Mack scored 31 that night and has averaged 20 pts in the tourney while Howard has averaged close to a double-double

Comment by wbb 04.02.11 @ 11:52 pm

wbb: I agree with you no doubt that wasn’t the case. At their peak performance, the three best players on the court were Brown, Mack, and Howard. If Brown had more consistency, then I’d argue he was the most talented player on the floor. Unfortunately, he wasn’t consistent so it was probably Mack.

Comment by Pitt Rob 04.03.11 @ 12:06 am

I still think brown, wannamaker, and Gibbs are better.

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 2:01 am

amazing!

Comment by wbb 04.03.11 @ 7:57 am

I posted a few weeks ago, I thought the biggest thing I saw that Pitt lacked from the teads advancing was the inability to play pressure defense, not necessarily pressing, but in the half court. Although, I still believe this to be something Pitt needs to improve, after watching more games I would now say that something else has topped my list. The ability of more than one player to consistently hit the three. These teams advancing each year pretty much have at all times four, if not five, players on the court that will shoot the three. Even on an average or below average shooting day, they remain in games getting the extra point. Gibbs, definite threat. Other than that, Id give Woodall about half a credit (willing to shoot it, but not real consistent). Wannamaker and Brown – very inconsistent and especially Wannamaker has trouble getting the shot off. The game has changed so much that your 4’s & 5’s need to be able to shoot the three. This is how defenses are stretched and mismatches are gained. I know the importance of an inside game and Pitts reputation for physical play and Im not saying give that up. Im saying , find some players that can do both!!!

Comment by Z-boy 04.03.11 @ 9:43 am

@Z-boy

I would add on to your comment by saying that we also lacked a transitional game and did not score on fast breaks. I went back to our last 10 games and tried to find an example of where we ran a fast break, and every time the ball was held up and the offense was set. So many times, we would have two on one scenarios, and our man would slow up and set the offense. That’s all fine and dandy for your offensive efficiency numbers, but anyone that has played the game knows, the transition games is a much easier way to score.

Were the players not good in transition and turn the ball over too much for JD’s liking…hence the no-fastbreak mandate? I don’t know.

Re: Dokish

I could see Birch starting over Taylor at the 5 before I ever see Nasir coming of the bench. Taylor, to me, is a guy that needs pushing. Plus, Birch learning the 4 will take time whereas the 5 puts him in a position to maximize his strengths. Nasir is too important on other facets of the team to have him come in as a sub spark…IMHO

Comment by Pauly P 04.03.11 @ 9:53 am

wbb:

Stick to football. The numbers support my theory. Mack had the game of his life against Pitt. Even if he is averaging 20 for the tournament, he scored 30 against Pitt. That is 50% more than 20 and the Pitt game is in the average. Howard is a scrappy player that has a nice athletic frame. He wouldn’t be all big east.

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 10:10 am

Omar, this is too easy … you say that Mack had the geame of his life against Pitt, inferring that he didn’t do much in the other games. It would only take a couple minutes of research to see that Mack scored 27 points in the Elite 8 vs Florida and 24 last night.

So the numbers support your theory?? Yea, the theory that you are a biased, shortminded person who thinks that Pitt and the BE are be-all and end-all of college BB.

Comment by wbb 04.03.11 @ 12:38 pm

Now, for the rest of you, don’t get me wrong, Pitt has a great rogram and the BE is the mst competitive BB leasgue … but neither is te be-all or end-all!

Comment by wbb 04.03.11 @ 12:41 pm

Exactly what I said previously, Pauly P. In addition to your comment on the underappreciated things that Nas does, Dokish does not take into account that the 4 is the most difficult position to learn in Pitt’s offense. Birch will be adjusting to college life and academics, so I don’t see Jamie piling on learning the 4 too.

I think he’ll push Taylor for minutes, which is a good thing for Pitt and for Taylor, and be eased into the 4 over the course of the season. If Taylor steps up as we hope, Birch will still spell him, but he’ll see more and more time at the 4. That still has Birch on the floor for major minutes, which is the most important thing. People put too much emphasis on starting, when it’s the amount of PT that really matters.

I only pointed out Dokish’s post to Tony C. because it agreed with what he thought, so I figured he’d like it.

Omar: I think you and wbb are both right. As a group Brown, Gibbs and Wanamaker are probably better than Mack, Howard and Vanzant. However, Mack will get drafted well ahead of any Pitt player. He’s the best player of the bunch, and he played his best game against the best team. That’s what the PTPs, as Dickie V calls them, do.

Comment by TampaT 04.03.11 @ 12:54 pm

I was surprised to see that no one mentioned the closing moments of the UConn-Kentucky game. Kentucky takes a timeout to set up their possession to tie the game with, IIRC, about 12 seconds left. That game plan apparently involves Brandon Knight dribble away ~6 seconds thirty feet from the basket and have Liggins hoist up a contested NBA three. For all of the flak that JD caught on this board for our final possession against Butler (most of being warranted), I think the fact that this just happened for a coach with significant Final Four experience and two 1st round draft picks out on the court should show exactly how overblown our reaction was in calling for Dixon’s head.

P.S. (And we complain about how our free throw shooting costs us games.)

Comment by rwm 04.03.11 @ 1:05 pm

To rwm: I think the biggest blunder was fouling with I think about 44 seconds left when they could of just played defense and got the ball back on a missed shot. It did work out for them because of an unforced turnover by Uconn, but that really was a coaching blunder. And one that Calipari should be called out on.

To the discussion about who plays the 4 or 5 for Pitt next year. My worry is exactly what my last post was about. From the choices that are listed, none of them are going to be able to hit a 3 pointer. If thats the case, our other 3 players better be consistent, knockdown shooters, with another coming off the bench. The sad part is I am a firm believer that shooting can be taught even at this stage of their careers, but for whatever reason its not getting done. Especially for the bigger guys who , if they happen to shoot 3’s , will probably be wide open 3’s and ones that dont have to create. Look at Howard for Butler. Everyone knows he is capable of hitting a 3 and he gets wide open looks many times. At this point, Id settle for baby steps and would like to see Nasir Robinson foul shooting technique not make me want to vomit.

Comment by Z-boy 04.03.11 @ 1:21 pm

Maybe it’s the fact that I’m doing some mid-day drinking and that I am an “I love you man drunk”… I would just say that we all can agree opinions are opinions, and most of the people that frequently comment are very well informed posts. So, let’s respect each other and agree/disagree respectfully.

Question for y’all…

What do you guys think about the 2 position next year? Assuming Ashton comes back, do you guys think CWright and Lamar can/should be the second option? Are they ready? Or, do you think JD will create a lineup that is forward centric when Ashton is not on shooting (or out of the game because fouls, injury, etc.)? I’m a little worried that our threats from long range are going to be limited next year. Someone mentioned earlier that our long range threat needs to come more from the 4 & 5….I don’t see us built to do that anytime soon. THoughts?

Comment by Pauly P 04.03.11 @ 2:06 pm

Mack would easily be Pitt’s best player. Just ask Jamie Dixon.

Comment by Tony Cancilla 04.03.11 @ 2:14 pm

I think either Moore or Patterson splits time at the 2, depending on which one starts at the 3. Whichever is the sub will do so for both the 2 and 3.

Wright will get some PT, but it will probably be in the <10 MPG range.

Birch has the raw materials to be a good outside threat, a nice shooting motion at the foul line. Depends on how long he stays as to whether or not Pitt ever benefits. Durand Johnson is supposedly a good shooting wing. At 6'7" he could move to the 4, especially if he's still growing, and be that threat. All speculative of course.

Comment by TampaT 04.03.11 @ 2:17 pm

Any team that has a big guy who can hit three’s is particularly dangerous –our big guys can’t guard such shooters when the go tothe perimeter(by big guys i mean our 5 & 4 position, so incl Nas). Matt Howard for Butler killed us.
But those guys are hard to come by and its really difficult to get a 4 or 5 to work outside shooting into his game at this stage. There’s just other elements they need to focus on.

But two key points that let to Pitt stagnating:
1) Agreed we needed more consistent shooters other than Gibbs. We didn’t have that, but we only need it at positions 1 – 3.
2) Part of the problem was we had NO inside-out game. Its largely because McGhee didn’t have the hands to catch/dish passes and wasn’t much of a scorer. Nas, outside zone-breaking, didn’t have much offense to offer either except where plays broke down.
A Taylor-Birch front court is a completely different world, and should hopefully open up the outside shooting a good bit. And, I’m hoping Moore/Patterson work on their outside shooting all summer.

Comment by PantherP 04.03.11 @ 2:59 pm

Agree, PantherP. Boubacar AW tried to start a conversation in another thread about an adjustments wish list based on the changover in key personnel, just like what happened in ’09. I said I’d like to see development of a low post game for the same reasons you stated.

Comment by TampaT 04.03.11 @ 3:11 pm

Although we have not seen much of him I think Patterson is the best ball handler after Woodall and Gibbs. If Wright or Epps cannot bring the ball up court, Gibbs and Woodall cannot be rested at the same time, foul trouble or injuries could be a disaster. I have no idea about Moore’s ball skills.

As far as the 4 or 5 shooting threes, how about a five-ten foot jump shot or just some moves around the hoop. How about just catching the ball 3 out of four times. I think with Gibbs,Woodall,Moore and Patterson we should have options from the three line.

As said above, fastbreak points and points in the paint were sorely needed against the more competitive teams. If Taylors knees are ok and with Moore and Birch, we should have a lot more play above the rim.

I am not sure who replaces Wanny as assists leader probably Woodall.

Comment by gc 04.03.11 @ 3:12 pm

Woodall better be assist leader since he will be the first true PG starter since Levance F. I think if JJ Moore can step up next year, it will be a big plus and take some pressure off of Aston to carry the scoring load. I also would like to see Taylor in te low post, and maybe Pitt can run an inside out offense for the 1st time in a few years.

Comment by wbb 04.03.11 @ 3:26 pm

I am responding to numerous personal attacks, some in all caps, and have no ill will to any frequent commenter. Mack is a solid player, but he isn’t Kemba walker. Any objective look at the numbers support this. Gibbs was and is Mack’s equal statistically. The Florida game went to OT. Wanny and Brown are better than the supporting players on Butler. It took everything Butler had to pull out a 1 point win after being spotted 12. Mack and Howard are not objectively better than Pitts individual stars. Gibbs was 5-7 against butler and 1-1 from three. He played well. Brown played better statistically than Mack. Pitt lost the game because of passive defense. Not because Butler was more talented. It happens.

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 3:57 pm

I didn’t say Mack hasn’t played well. I said that I think he isnt unequivocally better than Gibbs. The numbers support my theory. You mentioned his scoring average in the NCAA and I mentioned that his point total againt Pitt was 50% higher. What is “too easy”about that? Mack is not going to be a high draft pick or major contributor in the NBA. He may be drafted but he will not be an impact player. No way.

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 4:02 pm

But of course, Gibbs, Wannamker and Brown will be lottery picks!

Comment by wbb 04.03.11 @ 4:08 pm

They will not and neither will Mack. What’s your point?

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 4:12 pm

This is interesting. All of this fawning over a player that has averaged 16.1 points, 35% from three, 3 rebounds, and 4 assists against a horizon league schedule. Meanwhile Pitt had a player that average 17 points, 49% from three, 2 assists, and 2 rebounds against a big east schedule.

Pitt’s player scored 37 points in 2 tourney games shooting 7-10 from three. Butler’s player scored 45 points in his first 2 tourney games shooting 10-22 from three. Huge difference.

I guess I am legitimately crazy for not thinking Mack is WAY better than Gibbs.

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 4:27 pm

Finally, if Mack scores 24 or 27 against Pitt, then Butler is at home right now. Butler needed each and every one of Mack’s points against Pitt. Mack also would have been remembered for the dumbest foul in NCAA history if Brown makes a free throw or if Nasir Robinson doesn’t do what he did.

Mack isn’t Derrick Rose. Let’s get a grip here.

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 4:32 pm

There’s a fine line between winning and losing…

That flop call doesn’t get called or Brown nails that final FT and he is being elevated as a NBA prospect. He misses and the rest is history.

In our minds, we know GB. We knew he was always one foot on a dunk and one foot on a turnover…but had he made that shot, everyone would have been clamoring on him. He had an unbelievable game. Fine line, huh?

I think what frustrates Pitt fans is the fact that we tend to be on the side of losing more than winning in these pivotal situations in March

Call me one that believes we have to be in the position to make a run, and to do that, we have to continue to suffer through some of these March losses to finally enjoy the time we do make it.

Comment by Pauly P 04.03.11 @ 4:48 pm

yea, get a grip … all I did was disagree when you said that Pitt had the best 3 players on the floor … and I’m even now more sure now tha before that it is a silly statement

Comment by wbb 04.03.11 @ 4:49 pm

wbb:

Just because you disagree with something doesn’t make it silly. Find some facts to back up your argument. In my opinion, Brad and Ashton are better, or at least equal, players as Shelvin Mack. I also believe that Gilbert Brown is a better player than Matt Howard. The teams played head to head and were as close to a draw as possible.

The bottom line is that you have your opinion and I have mine. They are different, but neither is silly.

Comment by omar 04.03.11 @ 6:59 pm

But that;s the problem .. you are the one without the facts!!!

The facts are that Butler is in the national championship game led by Mack who has average over 20 points and Howard who leads the team in rebounds and 2nd in scoring against college’s best.

The fact is that Butler beat Pitt and it is very unlikely that a winning team would not have a player better than 3 players on the losing team.

You say it is your opinon that the Pitt guys are better … opinions and NOT facts! And you have yet to present a fact to support your opinion.

How can I not think that your’theory’ is silly??

Comment by wbb 04.03.11 @ 7:32 pm

This conversation is silly. Only the NCAA tourney matters. I forgot.

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 7:59 pm

The ubertalents Mack and Howard losing to ysu and 8 other teams is meaningless.

Comment by Omar 04.03.11 @ 8:00 pm

Two things will need to happen to make Pitt more than a great regular season team into one that can go far in the tournament:

1) An inside game that is a threat, for something other than offensive rebounds and garbage buckets.

2} A player 1 or 3 position that can be a threat penetrating a defense.

Add this to Mr. Gibbs who might then be able to get some open looks and you have an offense that has some versatility.
Watching McGhee tring to catch the ball and do something with it and Naz being ineffective from more than 3 feet was painful, and defenses were able to ignore them, or worse yet foul them and and let them shoot fouls like jr. high players.
Couple that with no slashers of note, and one of the best 3 point shooters around had little or no chance at clean shots.
Until the offense gets more versatile we will continue to make early outs in tourneys.

Comment by Jimbo 04.03.11 @ 9:53 pm

Think about the comparison head to head.

Butler was able to take Gibbs completely out of a game because Nored put the glove on him and Gibbs only does one thing well. Even if Pitt had a defender like Nored, taking Mack out of the game would be much tougher because he’s bigger, stronger and has a much more versatile game than Gibbs.

Maybe it’s tough for guys like Mack and Howard to get up for Valpo and Wright State every night. Bottom line is,they’d both be very good Big East players and would have made multiple Big East all conference teams during their careers.

Don’t think there are too many coaches out there who’d pick any of Pitt’s players before those two if given a chance to build a team from scratch……..

Comment by hugh green 04.04.11 @ 7:55 am

Damn you Dokish (and TampaT for linking his post)!!!

I had myself resigned to the fact that Birch was going to be the backup center going into next season. But Dokish is 100% correct:

“If they have a starting front line of Taylor, Robinson, and Patterson, then that makes no sense to me. It proves that Dixon is just trying to win a lot of regular season games, first and foremost because they are never getting past the Sweet 16 with both Robinson and Patterson starting.”

So now when it happens, and it will, I am going to be pissed.

Dixon needs to adjust his basketball world view and do some season planning. He has lead this program to a place where wins in March are now much more valuable than wins in January. When he took over the program that wasn’t the case.

He is going to be in a tough spot. He preaches toughness, he values play in practice, he values experience. It is hard to imagine that a 22 year old tough as nails Nasir Robinson won’t push an 18 year old Birch around in Green Tree and in practice in the fall. And combine that with the fact that it will be somewhat difficult for Birch to learn the PF position at pitt and handle all the required tasks.

I just don’t seeing Dixon telling his players, “hey I know Nasir is better right now and we probably have a better chance to win with him in there, but trust me, we’ll be better off in March if Birch plays now and we take our lumps”.

Comment by boubacar aw 04.04.11 @ 9:26 am

Sorry, boubacar aw. I was just trying to keep the “looking forward to next year” conversation going, instead of continuing the in “what could have been” vein.

I’ve done enough wallowing in self-pity through the tourney, and I find some consolation in that Pitt simply got beat by the two national finalists. But, we gave them their toughest games, and they respect us for that.

Since I just alluded to Butler, let me put something out there for consideration regarding Nas and Birch. One of the big keys to Butler’s run since losing to YSU, was Nored taking a sub’s role to benefit the team. We all know what a team guy Nas is, so couldn’t you see him doing the same as Birch develops?

I think it all hinges on Taylor. If Dante ups his game and his knees hold up, there’s no reason not to give Birch some time at the 4 – ease him into it and up his PT there based on how he performs in practice and games to the point where he’s actually there more minutes than Nas. Again, I think we put too much emphasis on starting when it’s the amount of time on the floor that matters most. Thoughts?

Comment by TampaT 04.04.11 @ 10:12 am

hugh:

why isn’t florida in the final 4?

pitt doesn’t deny the ball to any player, ever! that is not the way they play defense. even with the defensive “stopper”, nored, gibbs scored 11 points on 7 shots. secondly, offense was not, and has not been, the problem in any of pitt’s losses this season. the defense is much too passive, especially late in close games.

mack taking and making 25 ft. jump shots against pitt is great, but i would still take the 49% shooter every, single time. also, I would rather have wanny over howard. since pitt played butler to a draw, i don’t think hugh and wbb can definitively win this one. negativity doesn’t make someone correct.

Comment by Omar 04.04.11 @ 10:34 am

my point was that i thought there were a couple teams (Fla included) in Pitt’s bracket who would have kept Pitt from the Final 4. teams that got better during the spring campaign…….

i’m no Butler fan, but Mack and Howard have been incredible during these two runs to national championship games. whether we want to or not, we’ll always remember them. hard to talk about a gibbs or a wanamaker in the same terms; they’ve never played for anything and no one, save a couple Pitt fans on this board, will remember them. i don’t know what’s more definitive than that……..

Comment by hugh green 04.04.11 @ 11:02 am

Omar: I don’t want to get into this argument because as I said I think you and wbb are both right – the Pitt 3 combined are better than any Butler 3 combined but on an indivdual basis Mack was the best player on the court, at least in that game. And that game is all that really matters, because it sealed our fate.

However, I must point out a couple of flaws in your last post. Pitt played passive perimeter defense this year BECAUSE they didn’t have an on-ball stopper like Nored. It wasn’t the same way last year or the year before when we had J. Dixon. He often shut down the opponent’s best perimeter player, just like Nored does for Butler. Many of Gibbs points came without Nored being on the court. Remember, he doesn’t start.

And to hugh’s point about Mack vs. Gibbs, you had to notice that when a Pitt defender tried to crowd Mack on the perimeter, he simply used his strength to take the ball inside for an easy 2. A couple of times he did it so easily that he looked like a man playing against HS kids. That’s another reason he was getting so much room on the outside.

Again, you’re right. There’s no winning this one because both sides have good arguments. It’s just a matter of perspective. And, we still lost no matter what.

Comment by TampaT 04.04.11 @ 11:09 am

TampaT;

Pitt plays passive man-to-man defense every year regardless of personnel. The evidence is the lack of turnovers. Look it up. Pitt’s philosophy is to force tough shots. They do this well, but sometimes good players hit tough shots. Pitt plays a passive man-to-man inside the three point line with lots of help defense. This is the system and it has not changed.

I still think Brown was the best player in the Butler-Pitt game. He was more efficient scoring 24 on 11 shots. Mack scored 30 on 16 shots. Mack wasn’t involved in the go ahead lay-up and he committed a horrifically stupid foul. Pitt held Mack, or he went cold, to 10 points on something like 10 shots in the second half.

It’s the NCAA tournament. It’s one game and you go home. Mack and Howard were pretty lucky the first weekend. Howard gets a magic rebound put-back on Thursday. Mack gets bailed out of the dumbest play since Chris Webber’s timeout by an even dumber play by Nasir Robinson.

A great tournament doesn’t make the two of them NBA All-stars. They aren’t that good and they aren’t that definitively better than Pitt’s 2 best players. Argue until you are blue in the face, but you cannot prove it. The numbers don’t lie.

Wannamaker and Gibbs did win the big east regular season championship at 15-3. That certainly means something.

Comment by Omar 04.04.11 @ 11:43 am

hugh:

this is what you recently had to say on this subject:

*The whole point about talent vs balls is kind of meaningless when you consider that neither Pitt nor Butler is an especially talented squad. 2 guys are pretty good on one team, 3 guys are pretty good on the other and who can tell which is which? Neither team has the talent to take this thing…….

*Pitt had zero chance of getting past Fla anyway. I certainly thought they’d beat Butler (and cover the spread), but the Fla/UCLA game opened my eyes. I repeat, zero chance of Final 4.

Comment by Omar 04.04.11 @ 11:52 am

Gilbert Brown was the best player on the court in the Pitt/Butler game that day; right up until he missed that 2nd FT….IMHO. statswise, eye test, “onions” factor, etc. ; right up to the 2nd FT.

Comment by Pauly P 04.04.11 @ 12:09 pm

Omar: Again, if you call Jermaine Dixon’s defense “passive” you’re looking at a different game than me. Pitt’s defensive philosophy remains the same, but it’s application changes with the players. Yes, it’s always a switching man-to-man and they rarely press, exactly the same as Butler. But with regard to defending the perimeter, it’s dictated by an individual player’s ability to defend his man. Look at the early days of Howland/Dixon versus the last 4 years. The on-ball pressure, save for J Dixon, has changed dramatically. That’s player-dictated. That’s all I’m saying.

And, I guess we’ll see what happens with regard to the NBA. My money is on Mack getting futher there than any Pitt player. He’s already slotted higher on every mock draft than any of the 3 Pitt players, this year or next. Several have him as a first-rounder this year. None have one of those Pitt players higher than a late, late second-rounder.

Comment by TampaT 04.04.11 @ 12:23 pm

Regardless of personnel, Pitt does not extend it’s man-to-man defense beyond the three-point line. That is what I mean by passive. Check the game tape.

Mack is not an impact player in the NBA, period. I don’t care where he gets drafted. Jon Bender was a lottery pick. He stunk. Michael Olowakandi was the #1 pick. He stunk. Kobe Bryan went 12th in the draft…. NBA gm’s are not the brightest bunch.

Comment by Omar 04.04.11 @ 1:30 pm

Gil Brown was the best player that day when taking everything in to account. Mcghee made a bad read on defense or Brown would have been the hero for a defensive stop. Regarding who was or wasn’t more talented, of the five best players Pitt had 3 of them and Butler 2. Mack, Howard, and Brown were the 3 best players that day. I don’t think there is really any denying that. Now as far as over the course of the season, its debatable. That doesn’t really matter, though. They had 2 guys step up their play and we only had 1. That’s why we lost.

Comment by Pitt Rob 04.04.11 @ 1:37 pm

Omar: Jermaine Dixon often extended his defense beyond the arc, because he could stay with his man. Check the game tape from his two years.

I agree that the rest of the Pitt perimeter defenders begin at the 3, but doing otherwise would be asking for trouble because most can’t stick with their men and you’d give up too many easy or easier shots. Therefore, Jamie plays the percentages that a player or team will shoot 10-20% better from inside the arc than outside it, so he defends the inside vigorously. I agree that can be a problem during the tourney because percentages often go out the window with a player (Mack) or a team (VCU) shooting well above their norm. I’ve said he needs to think about changing that but he may need quicker players at all positions to do so effectively.

Also, I didn’t say Mack would be an “impact player” in the NBA. I said his stock was higher than any of the Pitt players.

Finally, I’m pretty much saying what Pitt Rob said. Even though I think Pitt wins a best-of-five series, Butler had more guys step up that day and we lost. There’s no changing that.

Comment by TampaT 04.04.11 @ 2:30 pm

Agreed on Butler stepping up.

I’m not sure I agree regarding Jermaine Dixon. The same thing that happened with Mack happened the year before against Jordan Crawford. Pitt’s unwillingness to extend the perimeter defense past the three-point line is a tournament killer.

Pitt is better off allowing an occasional lay-up versus not denying or contesting impact perimeter players. This is an adjustment that needs to be made by Jamie Dixon.

Comment by Omar 04.04.11 @ 2:40 pm

TampaT – I’m with you let’s talk about next year.

Some tweaks Jamie should consider for 2011/12:

*Vary the defense – If Woodall and Gibbs start in the back court, it will be the worst defensive backcourt in the Howland/Dixon era. You can’t rely on them to stop the ball consistently. Also, Pitt is going to be without a true center. I have no faith in Dante being able to handle the high ball screen. Why not mix in a zone?

*Also, why not extend the defense once in a while? Mix in a press or a trap. Pitt is going to need some easy baskets. Pitt is going to have more speed and athleticism than ever. Also, they’re are more likely to be losing and need to speed the game up next year.

*On offense, work on some pick and roll? Set a ball screen for woodall. Let him try to penetrate. Roll Taylor, Zanna or Birch to the glass.

*Push the tempo on rebounds. Get the ball to Woodall let him go to the rim. Birch will be the fastest Big on the floor. Moore is as fast as any 3 and gibbs is deadly on the secondary break running to the three point line. Again, pitt will need some easy hoops. Don’t think the half court offense will be as good as we’re used to.

*Push the ball when pressed. Again, Pitt bigs can finish. Get the ball to Birch, Robinson, Taylor etc. at the end of the press break look to score.

In general, I would like to see Pitt speed the game up a little, OPPORTUNISTICALLY. Again, not a wholesale change, just when appropriate look to GO!

Comment by boubacar aw 04.04.11 @ 2:40 pm

Crawford was a different story IMHO. He was hitting ridiculous shots sometimes with Dixon draped all over him. I don’t know how you stop that short of never letting him touch the ball in the first place. But, as boubacar aw said, let’s talk about next year. It’s a much happier place – for now.

As boubacar aw said in another thread, we’re seeing a regime change equal to 2009 when Young, Blair, Fields and Biggs left. But, I think we have more in the cupboard this time around. More athletes at all positions, some promising newcomers. The problem will be experience and the unknown of whether or not guys like Taylor, Moore, Patterson, and even Woodall to some degree are ready to step up to replace the 3 departing players.

I like where you’re going, boubacar aw. We’ll have the athletes so why not try to take advantage of that? I really see next year as a setup for a 2012-13 run, sorry Ashton and Nas, so why not play the season that way? Will Jamie do that and will Pitt fans understand the process? It will be interesting to see.

Comment by TampaT 04.04.11 @ 3:17 pm

Too many question marks at guard for me to go there with you on 2012/13. They’ll be LOADED with bigs, potentially more than one NBA lottery pick.

Other than recruiting, there is zero chance Dixon is even thinking about 2013.

Big question mark for next year – TOUGHNESS.

There is a serious ALPHA DOG deficiency now that Wanamaker left.

Comment by boubacar aw 04.04.11 @ 4:04 pm

TampaT- you answered the question about how to stop a star player, deny him the ball. at least deny him the ball once in a while. pitt never, ever, denies the ball on the perimeter.

next year should be okay. some growing pains early but should be a better team late in the year. a lot will depend on mr. birch. we’ll see. ashton gibbs returning is also key.

Comment by Omar 04.04.11 @ 4:41 pm

That’s kind of what I mean about this year being a setup for the following season, boubacar aw. Jamie will need to find someone to spell Gibbs and Woodall. Could that end up being a 3-man rotation between Gibbs, Woodall and Patterson or Moore, like we saw with those two and Wanamaker this year? Then whichever, Patterson or Moore, steps in to the 2 role in 2012-13.

Agree that Jamie will focus on winning next season. That’s his job. But, he always finds ways to work guys in to ready them to step into major roles in the future. That’s how he’s sustained the high level of success year after year, and this recent pattern of having a really good team every other year.

Agree there, Omar. Don’t know that you’ll see that until Pitt either gets better/more athletic defenders on the perimeter or goes to an aggressive zone. I wouldn’t mind seeing a little bit of the latter from time to time, especially if we run up against a player or team shooting 3s out of their minds.

Comment by TampaT 04.04.11 @ 5:51 pm

Omar — you can quote me all day, especially when I make sense.

Neither Pitt nor Butler IS an especially talented squad. Can’t remember another year when Butler would have had a chance to get back to the NC game AND get to play a 9-9 Big East team. Only in a year when even the one seeds had such conspicuous holes that not even one of them made the Final 4 could that happen. You know it’s bad when the talking heads on ESPN even have to stop promoting for a minute and admit it……..

And yes, after I saw some of the rest of the bracket play and realized there were marked improvements in some teams, I didn’t think Pitt had much chance at the Final 4.

Comment by hugh green 04.04.11 @ 6:09 pm

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