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August 17, 2009

QB: Panic or Don’t Panic

Filed under: Football,Practice — Chas @ 12:48 pm

I like to think Pitt fans on the whole have been doing their best to be relatively open-minded about the QB situation for this season. Some might have their preferences, or “anyone but” feelings, but overall there is a “wait and see” attitude. If for no other reason than simple pragmitism.

— Practices were barely underway and pads only went on over the weekend. There has to be time to see what progress has been made, especially with a new OC.

— Coach Dave Wannstedt has declared that Bill Stull is the starting QB. Whether out of pure faith that Stull is the guy, to forestall a QB cotroversy or try to instill some confidence in Stull to just go out and play without looking over his shoulder.

— It wasn’t going to be freshman Kolby Gray, and that was even clearer now that he will have shoulder surgery and take a medical redshirt.

— It’s not like anyone is absolutely sure what to expect from any of the QBs.

— Wanting to see what new OC Frank Cignetti does with them, and if he has a final (any?) say on the QB situation.

That said, it  did not escape many that both the Trib (Gorman) and P-G (Zeise) beat writers felt the need to note on the blog side of things that Stull is not looking good, while Sunseri is surging and Bostick is at least progressing. Zeise started it with a “don’t panic –yet” post about the overall QB play.

Yes, I know it is early and a lot of time is left in camp but……..it has not been the finest hour for the quarterbacks the last two days since they started playing in shoulder pads and actually faced a little bit of heat from the defense.

I had written after the first two days that the quarterbacks threw the ball well and they did. But I also cautioned they were throwing in 7 v 7’s and without a pass rush. Well, yesterday the defense turned up the heat a little bit and it all came crumbling down.

Starter Bill Stull looked a lot like the player who ended last season and Tino Sunseri looked a lot like a second-year player. And Pat Bostick was the odd-man out yesterday as he barely participated in any of the team stuff as he and Sunseri will be alternating days to get the bulk of the work with the second team.

Again, much like I said a few days ago — don’t over react to a few good days — I’ll say the same thing now, perhaps as camp progresses they will all settle in, get used to the speed of things and figure it out.

And most treated it as such. Pitt’s defense is strong. Everyone who has seen the practices has talked about how dominating and overwhelming the D-line has looked that the QB situation may not be getting a fair shake.

But then both came out and stated things after Sunday practices that really caught Pitt fans’ attention. First Gorman’s view:

Through the first six days of camp, however, Stull has lost his vise-like grip on the starting job. And he has no one to blame but himself. Sure, you have to take into consideration that he’s running the first-team offense against the first-team defense, which has him running for his life at times. And that Tino Sunseri is playing well when given the opportunity.

But that’s not the reason Stull has struggled.

Simply put, Stull isn’t making the throws. He’s missing open receivers. He’s off-target, whether it’s too short, too long or over the wrong shoulder. That’s not the worst of it. On Sunday, the fourth consecutive day Stull has struggled, he threw three interceptions and two touchdowns despite working on gold zone (15 yards in) and red zone (15 yards out) drills.

Unlike Wannstedt, Frank Cignetti Jr., Pitt’s offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, hasn’t declared one quarterback the unquestioned starter. He’s charting every play, and also knows that Pat Bostick threw four touchdowns and two interceptions, Sunseri one score and no picks.

Then Zeise:

The bottom line is Tino Sunseri has made it fairly clear that while he’s young and inexperienced, he isn’t just going to roll over and accept his role as a back-up as he’s played pretty well. Meanwhile, Bostick hasn’t played poorly or well in recent days because, his opportunities have been limited and Stull, at least the last two days, has struggled.

I know the spin – the defense is so much ahead of the offense it isn’t fair to evaluate. I’ll buy it to a degree and Stull is and should be the starter for now and going into the season. But there is no question this competition is a lot closer now than it was five days ago so it should be fun to watch develop.

And before I even reached other thoughts on this, Zeise has a blog post from this morning’s practice that speaks volumes.

Unless the goal of the quarterback is to make sure his receivers have no chance to catch the ball, I can’t quite figure out why a change hasn’t been made yet.

I know, I know, I know the company line is ‘we can’t use a redshirt freshman at that position he has no experience and well, you have to remember last year was our starters first year as a starter…….” My first reaction to the “it was his first year as a starter” line is this — please remind me how many starts Tony Pike had before last season and how that turned out for Cincinnati. And Darryl Clark, how many times did he start prior to last season and how did that turn out for Penn State? Heck for that matter, USC’s Mark Sanchez had three career starts before last season and well, he did OK I think.

College football teams all across the country use young players at key positions all the time and win with them. It is a fact of life in college football, rosters turn over every year and some years significantly. The idea that you always must have an experienced player at every position to win is ridiculous. Yes, ideally you’d like to but if the best player isn’t a senior, well, you need to look elsewhere.

And frankly, if you have an entire training camp plus the added bonus of three mulligans (to use another golf reference) to start the season (i.e teams you should be able to physically overmatch and thus win while protecting the quarterback and helping him gain confidence and get his feet wet and get used to the flow of the game) – that’s seven weeks of work you could have to get a guy ready before the varsity games start. But the key is getting him as many reps as possible and well, you’ve now wasted an entire week.

Wow. Not good. Or good. Depending on whether you believe Coach Wannstedt will change his views on who is running the 1st team.

It is clear that neither beat writer has seen anything from Stull that makes them believe he can hold on to the job. Zeise appears to be in the corner of Sunseri. Believing he is the best option at QB and will be/should be the starter based on performance in camp. Tha’s some raw frustration coming from an observer.

Cat Basket was already down with letting Sunseri run the first team a little. Eye of a Panther wonders if Wannstedt can break free of his thinking — something Zeise clearly echoes today.

I remember Wannstedt has always stressed he wants the best player on the field, but we all know what kind of premium he puts on experience (i.e., upperclassmen). Sunseri is not even a true freshman, but a redshirt. If he is performing the best of all three QBs, then he at least needs a chance to run the first team.

If the concern is about Stull’s confidence, then it is already too late. He has struggled and if he can’t respond to the challenge of being even temporarily demoted then he isn’t the player/leader the coaches think/need him to be.

I root for Stull. Hell, I root for Bostick as well. I really never gave Sunseri a thought this season, because of Wannstedt’s predilections. So, I really can’t say I was rooting for Sunseri this season, since I figured he had a very small chance of impacting.

Ultimately, though, I root for Pitt and want to see the QB out there that best helps the football team win. If it’s Sunseri let’s find out. If it is the defense just killing the O-line and not giving any QB a chance the coaches need to be sure.





When did Greg Cross get moved to wr?

Comment by Dan 08.17.09 @ 1:05 pm

during practices for the sun bowl, according to eric thatcher. i sat next to him on the flight to dallas the next day.

Comment by wilk 08.17.09 @ 1:23 pm

i’m all for giving sunseri a shot. ziese’s examples of teams having success w/ inexperienced QBs is right on. wanny still doesn’t get the college game, maybe he never will. let’s see if he punts if pitt has a 4th and 2 from the buffalo 35 yd line in week 2. we’ve see what stull and bostick can and can’t do in the heat of the game. give sunseri a shot if he’s having the best camp.

Comment by wilk 08.17.09 @ 1:27 pm

Hopefully Wanstache’s will listen to Cignetti when the time comes to name a starter…

Comment by Pittasttic 08.17.09 @ 1:35 pm

Wow…

It must be something to see given that I don’t recall Zeise and/or Gorman ever being quite this blunt in their criticisms of the play of the quarterback.

I think Chas makes a great point about Stull and his confidence – at this point, that ship has probably sailed. I’m sure he’s probably pressing to some degree, but at some point either you can make the throws or you can’t, and it sounds like he can’t make the throws.

I’m a Wannstedt fan and I want to see him do well, but this insistence on experience counting for so much across the board is starting to become maddening. I can understand this being the case on the offensive line, because an experienced o-line means you’re dealing with players much further along in their physical development.

To take one of Zeise’s points, it’s going to be interesting to see how Wannstedt handles this. If it’s as bad as it sounds and it continues much longer, you run the risk of things becoming counter-productive; not just does it become a confidence thing, but your offense cannot come close to developing the kind of repetition and timing it needs to succeed if this is happening. It might have already crossed that point of no return.

Wannstedt has three more weeks of practice, a tune-up against YSU and then another week to get ready for Buffalo. The last thing I want to see is for Wannstedt to come to terms with the fact that Stull is not the starter midway through that game in Buffalo, and I can’t believe I just made that game more important than it needs to be.

Comment by Stoosh 08.17.09 @ 1:42 pm

It sickens me that we have such flux at the most critical position on the team. Will Wanny ever learn?

On a bright note… nice puff piece on Jamie

link to cbssports.com

Comment by Pauly P 08.17.09 @ 1:50 pm

It appears that we have two head coaches that are loyal (for different reasons), of high character, and are defense-first. The similarities may end there but do not discount that one inherited a successful program, playing in what is deemed as the top 1 or 2 conferences, and is playing in a state-of-the-art venue which is regarded by locals as ‘the place to be’ … although in fairness, Dixon has enhanced the program. Conversely, Wanny must compete in a league not deemed very highly with low exposure, and Saturday at Heinz will never be the place to be compared to Sunday. Wanny has done a lot of good but the jury is still out …. but despite a large measure of negativity, I’m sure most if not all of us would be overjoyed to see him succeed.

Comment by w Bill 08.17.09 @ 2:53 pm

This basically confirms what we already knew – the Sun Bowl was no “fluke”. Stull is simply not a starting QB, a nice backup, but no starter. As others noted, for the beat writers to be so open in their criticism so early in camp, this must be an alarming problem. I say throw Tino out there week 1 and 2 for some reps and see what happens.

Comment by Rich 08.17.09 @ 3:53 pm

Sat next to him in first class on a redeye home Friday night from LAX. He is truly a nice guy and we are extremely fortunate to have him.

As for Wannstache, supremely nice guy as well. Not so certain we are extremely fortunate to have him as a game day coach. I wish he would simply focus on recruiting and leave the O & D up to the coordinators.

Comment by Bobby 08.17.09 @ 4:11 pm

First scrimmage is tomorrow. Hold your fire till then.

Comment by alcofan 08.17.09 @ 4:44 pm

“He is an outstanding dual-threat quarterback that has a strong and accurate arm. He’s also very quick and can do a lot of damage running the football. He is a very poised QB, he can take a team on his back and lead them to greatness. He is a tremendous leader. He is very accurate and can thread the needle. His lack of ideal size causes people to relax until they see his arm strength and it is a lot better than most think.”

Does this describe a current Pitt QB?

Yup, Scout.com’s take on Tino.

We’ve gotta give this kid a chance. I’ve heard he’s happy-go-lucky. Likely what’s needed vs. sweaty palms.

Comment by steve 08.17.09 @ 5:39 pm

This is NCAA football not the NFL.

It’s not like going with Sunseri is the same as going with a rookie QB in the NFL. Teams play, and are successful, with young players in college football all the time.

He’s even redshirted for a year, so he’s familiar with the system.

It just seems more and more like Sunseri is the answer. We know it’s not Stull, and with each passing year it looks less-and-less like it’s Bostick. No amount of game experience is going to change that.

We’re going to have a very good defense, our offensive line is expected to be the best it’s been in years, we have one of the best receivers in the country, and a promising crew of young running backs. We can’t blow this oppurtunity by wasting another year on Bill Stull.

Comment by Jimbo Covert's my Dad 08.17.09 @ 5:53 pm

Steve – We can play that game all day…

“Stull is a drop-back passer with good mobility in the pocket. He has good footwork and can escape the initial rush and buy some time. Stull possesses a very good arm and can throw with touch and velocity. He has beautiful touch on the fade pattern and has enough zip to throw the deep out. In fact, he possesses all the throws you look for in a quarterback and has a nice release.”

Or….

“Bostick has all the intangibles to be a great quarterback. he sees the field well and reads defenses as good as anyone. He does not have a cannon of an arm, but it is above average, his strength is his quick release and accuracy. He is not a sprinter by any means, but his game speed is faster than his forty-time. He can get out of the pocket and has the ability to feel the pocket collapse and escape the rush.”

I’m not saying Sunseri won’t live up to his advanced billing – just that it means nothing at this point.

Hey PITT fans – one thing about all this that is somewhat overlooked – Cignetti is running Sunseri out with the 1st team much more than anyone thought would happen so far. IMO that means he’s not as locked into playing a returning starter as we seem to think DW is. First scrimmage in on Wednesday – things will get pretty interesting from here out.

I do caution that we shouldn’t forget about Pat Bostick – he still has the best stats so far of all three QBs in the plays being tracked.

Comment by Reed 08.17.09 @ 6:44 pm

ESPN magazine in their conference picks (Pitt is #5 in the conference) remarks that Wannedstedt has never been a good judge of quarterbacks. Throughout his 15 year coaching career, his QBs have thrown more interceptions than TDs. This observation explains the pursed lips and defensive language clearly evident whenever Wanny talks QBs.

Comment by TonyinHouston 08.17.09 @ 10:07 pm

It’s gonna take some brass for DW to stay with Stull at this point. The Pitt football beat writers would not have said anything if there wasn’t a serious problem. They know the team inside and out, know the players and know the coaches- they would not have made those comments/observations public without good reason. It’s clear he isn’t getting it done thus far, and as a 5th year senior I don’t think he’s going to suddenly take it to another level.

DW has to remember that he has about 100 guys to look out for. Give Sunseri the chance and see what happens. Let him take the reins and if he blows it through the first 2 games, go back to the guys who have that oh-so-valuable game experience.

Comment by Dan35 08.17.09 @ 10:27 pm

Now from Sitting Ringside re: practice No. 7 today:

“· The Panthers conducted a two-minute drill, and each quarterback took a turn with the first-team offense against a first-team defense using the second-team defensive front, just to even things out a little.

Bill Stull’s turn ended in an interception, when he was hit by DeCicco on a fourth-and-1 pass that tipped off Baldwin’s hands and was bobbled several times before being intercepted by Gary on the right sideline.

· Bostick’s turn ended with a 23-yard touchdown pass to Smith in the upper left corner of the end zone, a play in which Wannstedt raved, “He made a great throw in the corner of the end zone with Bokor hitting him right in the mouth.”

· Sunseri’s turn saw him complete passes of 20 and 17 yards to Baldwin to move the ball to the 3 with 10 seconds left. That set up a fade from Sunseri to Baldwin, who leapt and caught it one-handed like a softball over a helpless Chappel for a touchdown.”

Admittedly a small sample, but still…

Comment by Dan35 08.17.09 @ 10:42 pm

One of the other Pitt sites had an interesting idea how to fix the offense. Just remove Wannstedt from all things offense and keep him focused on the defense.

Comment by Trevor 08.17.09 @ 11:34 pm

All for any of the quarterbacks who earn the starting spot. My concern and criticism comes from the fact that DW , this year and last year, gave Stull the spot before trainging camp even started. Why not come out and at least say the job is up for grabs, everyone will be in a battle. I hope he gets it right. Here is my fear: Stull plays throughout the season , has his ups and downs, but cleary average at best. Pitt loses a few games that had they could have won, had they an above average QB. Next year comes around and DW’s first words of the preseason are that one of the concerns is the lack of expericence at quarterback.

Comment by Z-boy 08.18.09 @ 12:30 am

Look, if we saw a true freshman in Bostick come into play because of injury in 2007 – and while his production wasn’t very good, he was competent in some ways and the team played to the end of each game with a shot to win – all with the kid having half a training camp and no real preparation at all (remember he was basically going to be redshirted as planned) – then I don’t see why Sunseri, who has one year in the program, can’t get a full camp under his belt and compete out there when the regular season rolls around.

It’s not an ideal situation, and personally a month ago I thought it would be a real reach – but things change – and part of that change is Stull’s not being able to convince the staff that’s he’s clearly the best choice based on his camp play. Obviously Cignetti is impressed with what Sunseri brings to the table and is giving him an opportunity to make a case for himself when the starter is named.

What I, or any other fan, doesn’t really know is the interaction between DW and Coach Cignetti – but I’m starting to have a gut feeling that Cignetti may have more autonomy than we all think – at least I truly hope that’s the case.

We’ll know more when this scrimmage is over and we see what sort of QB rotations the staff comes out with afterward.

Comment by Reed 08.18.09 @ 5:07 am

[…] Natale has stepped up in camp, Bill Stull’s hold on the Pittsburgh starting quarterback job appears to be slipping away. For all the Cignetti hype, it’ll be a shame if they don’t have anyone to get Jonathan […]


did any of you read the above referenced article? here is an excerpt:

“Cincy’s ticket sales are up 8.4%. It’s hard following the Bearcats, given that the Inquirer and Brian Bennett’s blog are basically the only sites/publications that cover them.”

I read where the Inquirer actually sent an intern to Big East Media day, and Coach Kelly was so mad, he ignored them.

I wonder if the reason for this is that Cincy is just not that big of a football area, or it is very OSU dominant (my guess.) I can’t imagine fb fans totally ignoring the Bearcats to focus on the Bungles (and Ocho Cinco.)

Comment by w Bill 08.18.09 @ 8:35 am

follow-up to above message — I guess that we are pretty fortunate, considering all of the adulation for the Stillers, that we have two very good, and knowledgeable beat-writers following the Panthers

Comment by w Bill 08.18.09 @ 8:39 am

Cincy’s Coach Kelly should have given the intern full access and all sorts of leads. Then ignored the staff writers who followed up after he got home.

Cuse is starting Paulus at QB. How long before he flops?

Comment by CalvinHobbes 08.18.09 @ 8:50 am

Here’s what we know:
1. Wannstedt is stubborn to a fault (is that a Dutch name?)
2. He really likes Stull on a personal level.
3. Stull is very likeable – says all the right things about the program and the coaches.
4. Stull can’t hit the broadside of a barn if he was in the barn.
Will Cignetti be thinking of that old country song “I shaved my legs for this”?

Comment by 66Goat 08.18.09 @ 9:34 am

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