the comparison of attendance based on psu is a “state school” is incorrect. pitt and psu are both state-related universities, however many people don’t seem to know this, and temple enjoys the same status

I don’t think he meant to be that technical in his comparison. I believe what he meant is that since it is “The University of Pittsburgh” you will not get that many fans in attendence from outside of Pittsburgh. Where as with Penn State, people throughout PA will be more likely to attend their games.

I’ve lived in State College for the past 23 years and have had season tickets for Pitt football the whole time. I don’t care if the series ever gets renewed because I love reminding people here that JoePa will go to his grave knowing the he lost the last game he ever coached against the Panthers!!!

Come on now. Everyone knows they’re both state affiliated universities, but as the Pennsylvania State University in State College, Pennsylvania you’re automatically going to be the big draw for the state. It has nothing to do with receiving state money.

I just think it’s kind of pathetic that a school like PSU has no rival. PSU can go play pretend with thier “rival” MSU (that you’ve played 74 fewer times than Pitt) while they live under the boot of the old man. How quickly they forget the chants of “time to go, Joe” that they showered him with a few years ago.

I think I have an interesting perspective, since I grew up in Lancaster, which is Penn State country big time. I don’t have hate for Penn State. Actually, I grew up rooting for PSU to beat Pitt in their rivalry games. Then I went to Pitt, and my attitude completely changed. And this was in the mid 90s and the return of Majors. My friends who had gone to PSU, had an arrogance about them, based on their football team being so good. They thought their school was better, not only athletically but also scholastically.

Then I made a few visits to Happy Valley for football games and realized that the student body had nothing besides football Saturday’s to look forward to. Everything revolved around football, and I wondered what it would be like if the football wasn’t good. Friends of mine who are now several years out of their undergrad studies have told me it’s often a “drinking the koolaid” situation in Happy Valley.

One of the better t-shirts I’ve ever seen that summed up the rivalry between the school’s and areas of the state was the one that read something like “Culture over agriculture”.

Matt T. you are absolutely correct, growing up I was a PSU football fan, this changed the minute I decided to attend Pitt for Law school, now I hate PSU with a passion! The kids attending PSU act and think they are attending an Ivy league school. They are exceptionally smug and cocky, which basically sums up about 99% of their alumni and current student population. What makes this so comical is that their university lacks any marque academic program outside of their agricultural program…

Their grad programs for the most part are average at best, they didn’t even have a law school until 8 years ago when they decided to buy out a 4th tier (lowest tier in law school ratings) school named Dickinson. They don’t have a medical school, and I can’t say I’ve ever heard of their MBA program…the point is PSU is a party school for people who couldn’t get into a better University and Matt you are correct, if they ever would take the time to look around they might realize this…other than football there is nothing else outside of 200 miles in any direction.

One of those 15 losses by the PSU bball team in 05-06 was a 91-54 throttling by Pitt at the Pete. I’m sure Dixon is shaking in his boots.

Had Penn State joined the Big East, I doubt that Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College would have defected. As a BC fan I would have liked to see Penn State in the Big East. But looking at this Penn State-Pitt rivalry, it’s obvious Pitt stands to gain more from the rivalry, so they should offer some incentive to Penn State to renew the series, after Paterno retires.

If Penn State can put 105,000 in the seats for Temple (and admittedly they can), then why do they need two games in Happy Valley for every one at Pitt? Suck it up and revive the only real two-way rivalry you’ve got. Ohio State doesn’t care. Michigan State doesn’t care. They’re both too busy focusing on Michigan. And as much as we love beating WVU (and will enjoy it even more with Bob Huggins coming to Morgantown), we’d love another chance to stick it to JoePa before he drops.

an extended family member will be a freshman at pitt this next fall. she comes from a penn state fan, stemming from her mom being an alumnus.

anyways, she’s out for a visit to pitt and i show her and her mom around town, campus, and basically answer any questions they have about pitt & the city. the entire evening was summed up when i took them up to Mount Washington to see the city. i said “ok, truthfully, pitt can’t offer the football atmosphere for of 7 weekends a year, but the other 45 weeks of the year, you’ll always have something to do.” Pitt (M/W) hoops, student discounts for hockey, theatre, museums, free busfare all over Allegheny county for several malls, countless movie theatres, ethnic restaurants, concerts…. and on and on. she got the picture and was very enthusiastic to come to Pitt.

to me, in state college, going to football games because there is nothing else to do, becomes a way of life. so they are naturally drawn back to it. the day i move away from pittsburgh, there will be so much more i miss about pittsburgh than just football games and eating lousy ice cream.

Actually, Marco…Penn State does have a medical school (in Hershey). And presumably, its graduates have a better grasp of spelling and punctuation than you do. Pitt’s law school isn’t exactly good, so I wouldn’t brag about that, either. And yes, getting in as a freshman to Penn State main campus requires a far higher GPA and SAT score than it does to get into Pitt’s main campus. All of this is moot, however — graduates of both schools can and have succeeded.
In terms of sports, however, Pitt made its own bed: back when an Eastern conference was initially discussed, Pitt would only consent to play Penn State in football. Penn State wanted to include all of its programs in such a conference, especially its weak basketball team. Pitt refused, and Penn State subsequently joined the Big Ten. Is it sad to have lost a rivalry? Yes. But this is as much Pitt’s doing as Penn State’s, and frankly, it’s absurd to read the rants of uninformed fans to the contrary. And Penn State has other reasons to avoid such a game: for starters, the Pitt fan base is mean-spirited and classless. At Pitt Stadium in 1997 or 1998, the students threw beer cans, paint cans, and other debris down onto the team and coaches as they entered and left the field. Pitt refused to allow Penn State’s team bus up Cardiac Hill to the stadium, forcing them to walk up the hill instead (naturally, Pitt’s own buses dropped the team off right at the stadium, and Penn State’s buses — after a win — were allowed to come up to the stadium). These types of events demonstrate a lack of sportsmanship, and typify why there is no need to continue this so-called “Rivalry.”

…yawn. Time for a sandwich

I have a better answer for this argument: WHO CARES? Both schools are still in PA so they automatically suck no matter how good they are. This is like having a global economics debate at the Special Olympics.

[...] • The ref who hates Tim Duncan. [Pounding The Rock] • When you live in that dead area where every game is blacked out. [Too Much Sports] • Pitt and Penn State just need to play already. [Pitt Blather] • Andre Agassi accidentally thwacks his wife in the face with a tennis racket. [Metroville] • Remembering two-sport athletes. [Josh Q. Public] • Miami will take a backup quarterback, any backup quarterback. [Signal To Noise] • A Cubs fan breaks down the first two weeks of the baseball season. [Sweet Home Sports] • Breaking down Pat Burrell. [extrapolater] [...]

Also Marco, Businessweek’s B-school rankings have Smeal (PSU) as a Tier 2 program, and Katz as a Tier 3. Having a cursory knowledge of the facts tends to lead to better arguments.

I will rejoice when Paterno dies. He is Saddam rolled up in Castro with a dusting of Hitler. Enough said.

Geeman = case in point. Stay classy, Pitt.

Here’s the deal: PSU-Pitt is a one-sided rivalry. Case in point: At the Sports Cafe in State College during the UCLA buttkicking over Pitt in the recent NCAA Tournament, almost everyone there was cheering for Pitt. When I tell most people I dislike Pitt, I usually get a “why? You’re from Pittsburgh so I thought you should like them”. Pitt is irrelevant up here. Nobody cares. Now if you go to Oakland, you see all kinds of PSU sucks license plates, and people taping PSU sucks on their graduation caps, and various anti Penn State merchandise. Why the one sided hate? One word: JEALOUSY.

I’m a lifetime Penn State fan that is all for the rivalry. However, I think that both schools have moved on past it, and have to stop whining about the whole thing. At this point, Pitt’s always going to have PSU when it comes to basketball tradition/success, and State’s always going to have Pitt when it comes to football tradition/success.

Also, Erin, I kindly disagre with your comment that Pitt’s law school “isn’t that good”. In fact, it’s in the (albeit bottom) first tier. Meaning it’s a top fifty school– about 125 places (at least) above the Dickinson School of Law. Pitt Law’s the best law school in PA not called “UPenn,” by pretty much any metric. I know, because i’m an alum (and i never turned my back on State while there). Anyway, I enjoyed the rest of your points.

APK-
From my understanding of things, Pitt more or less bought its way into the top tier by bringing on published professors and subsequently cutting classes. I don’t have a stake in it, to be truthful, because I went to a top tier, top ten law school myself. I’m certainly not defending Dickinson, or trying to say that it’s a better law school than Pitt — Pitt just doesn’t have as good of a law school as Marco would like to think.
But honestly, this is about whether or not to play a football game — not about either school’s academics. And the issue has been decided — not just by Joe Paterno, as Pitt people would have you believe, but by BOTH athletic departments. Bitching and moaning about it (largely on the Pitt side of things) isn’t going to change that.

It’s also comical that Marco doesn’t know how to spell marquee and is in Pitt Law.

Law, Medicine and Business aren’t the only fields there is graduate study in. Penn State has quite a few nationally ranked grad programs in other fields.

The state school versus city school comparison is deeply flawed as well. It’s fun how you can twist statistics in the favor of virtually any argument. Let’s compare population within 40 miles of the stadium. Those numbers would come out grossly in favor of Pitt. Then again that wouldn’t be very fair considering many Penn State fans come from much further. The point is let’s stop throwing out silly stats.

All that said, let them play each other!

(1) Akron, Youngstown State, & Temple at home last year. Though I have to give it to PSU- this year they squeezed Notre Dame in between Buffalo and Florida International.

(2) Over 20 comments, some of which include vitriolic typo-jabs. This kind of debate and passion is what a rivalry is all about.

(3) Erin- congratulations on attending a top ten law school. We are so very proud of you.

My favorite thing about the rivalry was replacing the “Da da da da da-da Fight, Pitt, fight!
V-I-C-T-O-R-Y!” line with “Penn State sucks! P-E-N-N-S-T SUCKS!” in the Pitt Victory Song, no matter the sport or the opponent.

The fact is that if Penn State has room on the schedule for Temple Syracuse or Youngstown State, they should have room annually for Pitt. The two largest football schools in a football hotbed state like Pennsylvania should ALWAYS meet on the field EVERY season.

“Penn State always tries to make excuses about how they don’t care about their basketball team, but this has to be the worst one I’ve heard.”

ah.. how did you get that from “I prefer wrestling over basketball any day of the week?”

I’m glad I gave you such a hearty laugh but I was making your buddy look like the idiot he was. He said (in caps no less) “win a game against us this decade IN ANY SPORT” and I named three: Wrestling, Baseball, and Women’s Basketball.
I love the first and could not care less about the last two but PSU has beaten Pitt in all of the above in the decade. I didn’t even go look at gymnastics (which PSU just won a national title in, but I digress) or any of the lesser known sports because I didn’t need to; I found three right off the bat. Yeah, Pitt is better than Penn State in Men’s Basketball and it will probably always be that way but at least I can admit that. There simply isn’t another sport that Pitt is better than Penn State at year in and year out - including and most importantly, football. So you guys hang your hats on Men’s Basketball, we’ll stick with Paterno’s 23 – 7 – 1 record against Pitt. What really makes me laugh is that according to Pitt fans, football history must have started in 2000 and ended in 2004 because that’s the timetable given in any argument… oh and there are only two sports: football and MEN’S BASKETBALL! The latter being the most important in the world and the sole barometer of an athletic department.

For me, Pitt history started in 1896 and continued through 9 national titles to where we are today. Penn State’s history can be summed up with two proper nouns- “Joe Paterno” - who, despite achieving more wins than anyone else at one point - still only has a pair of national championships to show for all those years.

I would like to see Pitt play Penn State because I like asking Penn State fans where their national championships are.

Really State, where’s the hardware?

I noticed that you referenced the Black Shoe Diaries post quite a bit towards the end of your work. I read that blog quite regularly, and know for a fact that you are selectively picking and choosing whichever posts help prove your “point.” Stuart was a downright obnoxious prick, yet you would glorify him by taking the “logical” tidbit out of one of his many posts. I guess you must have missed the ones where he was mocking our collective intelligence and calling us a “second-tier” program. That’s not good writing, my friend.

All biases aside, why would PSU leave the Big-10? I don’t care who they have traditional rivalries with, there’s no reason to pass up games against teams like OSU, Michigan and Wisconsin. Furthermore, some of the second-tier teams (Iowa, Minnesota and Purdue) are consistently ranked as well. If you can go through a schedule like that unscathed, you play for the national championship. If you finish with 1-2 losses, you’ll play in a BCS game (just like the last two years). With the Big East, 6-6 doesn’t even get you into a bowl!

Basically, as much as you may disagree, PSU doesn’t really need this rivalry. The rigors of the Big-10, along with one marquee OOC game a year, are enough. Yeah, we might play some cupcakes, but so do you. Everyone does. The difference is that (lately), we play our games, achieve winning seasons, and win top-tier bowl games. Until you can get to that point too, I think you have more important things to worry about than playing Penn State.

Joe Paterno has had five undefeated seasons. He’s had six one-loss seasons. If you’re the same type of person who cried foul that Boise State didn’t get a chance to play for the NC, you can’t shortchange JoePa for something he can’t control! The BCS hasn’t been around forever to give us the “best” matchup. Your NC comment is just silly.

Bill fucking Stull is going to be the starting QB at Pitt this year. Honestly, If PSU played Pitt it would set Pitt’s program back to almost 1-AA status. Maybe you fools should worry about winning your weakers conferences games and stop trying to get the Nittany Lions to Heinz Field so you can finally fill some seats.

9… count ‘em

Nine championships, and over 25 years of irrelevance since. Congrats!! Seriously, stop being so smug when you were alive for, at best, three of those championships. This is a “what have you done for me lately?” world, get used to it.

And at the end of 2004, what exactly has PSU football done for you lately Erin?

You know what you could do for us Erin? Go away. Nobody here cares about your law degree, your love of PSU football, or your grammar.

Speaking of your law degree, do these count as billable hours for you?

Speaking of “lately”, the last time Pitt and Penn State played, Pitt won 12-0.

Well, I’m glad to see this continue and get back here, tired of making them look foolish on their own site.

The population problem: PSU has twice as many undergrads, every year, for as far back as we can count. Their fan base is easily twice as large. It doesn’t matter that we live in a city and they are the sticks - not everyone around here attends Pitt, and not everyone is an alumni. Like others have said, there are other things for the non-Pitt-related to do on Saturdays. Farmers out there have no other choice - they can’t spell ‘bever’, but they can get to the stadium every saturday.

Its moot anyways - I don’t know what having more fans has to do with playing Pitt in football. You’d lose 1 home game every 2 years by scheduling us. Not that much money. You wouldn’t even lose one if you scheduled us instead of home and homes with temple.

We had to drop PSU from b-ball - not because we were tired of beating them, they were hurting our seeding in the tournament by dragging down our RPI. This doesn’t happen in football, otherwise you wouldn’t be playing temple and youngstown state. “In Big Ten basketball, Penn State is dirt.” - don’t insult dirt, they’re manure, and their bball court is fittingly filled with it.

And any talk of PSU consistently beating Pitt is garbage - SINCE WE STOPPED PLAYING IN 2000 - Pitt has a better overall record, been to same number of BCS bowls, didn’t have 4 LOSING SEASONS, and finished with no worse of a record than PSU in 5 of 7 season. Get over it, 1 year with a good record doesn’t make you Florida or USC. It does suck for us once your program hit the shitter you ran and hid. Funny how now we have a few down years and we still want to play?

This “eastern conference” crap has nothing to do why our rivalry isn’t played since 2000 - how many games did we play between when that conference didn’t happen and 2000? Who makes this shit up?

When I posted in “ANY SPORT” I should have been more careful, I realized too late PSU will jump on the opportunity to tell us how good their women’s intramural foosball team is. I corrected this already, “EITHER SPORT” that people care about.

“There simply isn’t another sport that Pitt is better than Penn State at year in and year out - including and most importantly, football.” - Again, CHECK YOUR RECORD SINCE WE’VE STOPPED PLAYING. We’ve been better than you YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT - you want to use 1 year to describe how good you were IN THE TIMEFRAME WE’RE TALKING ABOUT. Your program has been down more so since we’ve stopped playing than ours - although our skid came later.

“football history must have started in 2000 and ended in 2004 because that’s the timetable given in any argument…” - THIS JUST IN - WE’RE TALKING ABOUT PITT/PSU PLAYING IN FOOTBALL, WHICH ENDED IN 2000. So yes, 2000-2007 is what we’re talking about. You’ve been EVEN WORSE THAN PITT most of those years.

Any money argument is a joke from you people, you’d try to make MORE from your horrendous bball program if you really were that concerned about money. The only reason you don’t play us in football would be the fact you can’t gain from losing to us, so you’re better off not taking the chance. Even though 100% of Pitt fans, and WAY over 50% of PSU fans would love to see the rivalry continue.

I think there is just one fool who is keeping this from being played - and everyone else who says “good - we don’t want em anyways, no one does, it doesn’t matter, money, recruiting, blah blah blah” is an apologist just making garbage up to defend their program being held hostage to a demented old man.

Hail to Pitt.

I like how all of the psu fans in here claim they dont care about the rivalry, yet they’ve spent all day on this board discussing it. By the way was anyone on the psu football team arrested this week? Its hard to keep track anymore.

Man, Erin has the most time on his (her?) hands of any lawyer who ever graduated from “a top 10″ Law school. Perhaps you should go out and chase some ambulances or something and stop worrying about Pitt since “we don’t matter”.

…and know for a fact that you are selectively picking and choosing whichever posts help prove your “point.” Stuart was a downright obnoxious prick, yet you would glorify him by taking the “logical” tidbit out of one of his many posts…

Go back and re-read what I’ve said - I make an argument, you guys ignore it and bring up something else that is non-sensical instead. I’m not going to copy and paste everything I said over there to here.

Obnoxious? Ever met a PSU fan? How about the one’s that can’t admit their program is SECOND-RATE? LOOK AT YOUR RECORD RECENTLY SON, YOU’RE NO FLORIDA, USC, ETC… You’re no where near the top anymore! 1 BCS bowl in 7 years! HELL, CRAPPY OL PITT CAN DO THAT! No one here is calling Pitt the cream of the crop, but at least we’re not DELUSIONAL.

“I guess you must have missed the ones where he was mocking our collective intelligence and calling us a “second-tier” program. That’s not good writing, my friend.”

I’m still mocking your lack of collective intelligence! Let’s review the shit I’ve had to put up with over there:

“We’d lose money” “If money was so important you’d try to make MORE from bball” “but our bball turns a profit” “WHAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT *MORE*?!?!” silence…

“you suck” “our record since we’ve stopped playing has been better” “yeah…well….you suck…” “we’ve been to the same number of BCS bowls” “you suck” “you’ve had a losing record more often than not since we’ve quit playing” “you suck” “you’ve had a better record 2 of 7 years” “la la la can’t hear you…you suck….la la la…”

“we rule the BCS” - oh boy, reality anyone?

“we own you” “you haven’t beat us in either sport this decade” “well…you suck”

“we have more fans therefore we’re better” “no, that means you have more fans” “no, that means we’re good” “no, attendance does not mean ‘quality’” “yeah…well….you suck”

“people around the nation view us as great” “thats what you and your fans think” “no, everyone around here says so” “:shakes head:”

“9 out of 10 times’ recruits choose PSU” “need a RB?”

“ABC puts us on TV” “you have a lot of fans, that doesn’t mean your anygood” “ABC says we’re good…they tell me so..why else would they have us on” “Fans?” “no….you suck”

Its making me sick. Please make sense.

You can count championship #10 if you count Pitt’s 9-0 1910 season the *first* year of football with the forward pass.

I’ve seen it a hundred times… damned if you forget Pitt’s history… damned if you embrace it.

Penn St could have 2 home games to 1 visit to Pittsburgh just roll Temple in every third year at State College instead of Pitt ! PSU should never forget their original name Farmers High School (again Pitt culture over agriculture).

The rivalry is not a priority for PSU anymore and thy would actually be better served to play several past independent rivalries than just Pitt.

Pitt obviously needs the game every year to help attendence, recruiting, national perception. Thats why Pitt refuses a 1-1 two year series. Its always one-sided reasons when discussing why the game should be played every year.

Like the original post with Fralic talking about PSU on a Thursday night national broadcast against WVU…the supposed supurior rival to anyone PSU plays in the Big Ten. Like PSU couldnt schedule WVU every year if they wanted to. They dont.

Stuart, it’s time to quash your arguments once and for all:

1) Fan Base: It has nothing to do with school size or surrounding area or ANY of that. Penn State has a great football team rich with tradition. People want to watch that. Penn State basketball sucks, so no one watches that.

Pitt football sucks, so no one watches. Pitt has a pretty good basketball team, hence a higher proportion of the fan base can be found in attendance at the games.

Why, I ask, would the SAME fan base watch one sport and ignore the other? Why would major tv networks ignore one sport but show the other? It’s all about success, not student population.

2) Sports that matter: Call me crazy, but I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that any sport where you can win an Olympic medal is a relevant one. Guess what, that includes woman’s bball (convenient why that doesn’t matter, but men’s bball does), fencing, ice hockey, soccer, wrestling and gymnastics. Just because these sports disprove your “Pitt beats PSU” argument doesn’t make them irrelevant.

3) Recent history: You won the last PSU vs Pitt CFB game. Seriously, congrats. We still have the all-time series, as well as Paterno’s head-to-head record. Also, we’ve bounced back from our losing seasons and have done great things recently, including winning the Orange and Outback Bowls in successive years. You can’t claim that, even though you’re playing in an semi-arguably weaker conference.

4) JoePa - Say what you want, but he’s widely recognized as one of the (if not the) greatest coaches of all time. He’s old, but not demented. I’d wager he could still draw up some X’s and O’s that’d make Wannstedt’s head spin.

That said, I’m going to leave this blog now because you guys are unwilling to listen to sound argument. The same people who would hero-worship Stuart for debating on a PSU-blog would skewer Erin or myself for speaking our minds. Regardless, the bottom line remains that if you were to assess a “need value” to this series, you guys need it more than we do. That’s just not going to change.

Wow, I apparently touched a major nerve there. Funny, too, given the superiority complex Pitt law students/alum have over Duquesne law students/alum. I believe that most of my posts were even-tempered and not blatant bashing, but apparently, me saying that Pitt isn’t the #1 law school in the country set people off — incidentally, that comment was made in response to another post, not just a random hateful attack. It is interesting that most of what I ACTUALLY had to say about the rivalry issue has been ignored. I suppose name-calling is easier.
As for everything else….I love Pittsburgh, but a center of culture it’s not — ask people in most major cities what they think of Pittsburgh. And Oakland isn’t the center of much other than the ghetto. It’s all neither here nor there — Penn State is in the country, Pitt is in the ghetto — true, but it doesn’t mean we should renew an old rivalry that meant more back when BOTH teams were CONSISTENTLY good. I know full well that Penn State has had its ups and downs — mostly downs — in recent years, and Pitt certainly has had a lot of the same problems. Either way, it’s not going to happen anytime soon…

The excuse for the attendance gap being that there is “nothing to do in state college” is a ridiculous point. A vast majority of the 105k fans do not live anywhere near state college. A large amount of them come from Pittsburgh to attend the game. So there’s so much to do in Pittsburgh on a Saturday that thousands of people drive 132 miles to attend football in the middle of nowhere.

To end the discussion once and for all PSU should just schedule one old independent rival in addition to its OOC BCS game every year to show Pitt they are completely irrelevent in comparision to every other past rival PSU had. Because right now Pitt think they are above WV, Maryland, Rutgers, SU and anyone else that PSU has played dozens of times.

Get in line Pitt.

“Oakland the center of the ghetto…”

You obviously have limited knowlege of Pittsburgh. It is not suburban utopia…but “center of the ghetto” - not even close.

Your attempt to feign neutrality has been unmasked by your ignorance.

Besides having a larger alumni population to draw from (which you continue to ignore) I can’t say it better than this:

http://mondesishouse.blogspot.com/2006/11/relevance-of-pitt-vs-penn-state.html

Stoosh said…

But I hate this argument that Pitt doesn’t fill Heinz Field. So what? The University of Miami seldom fills the Orange Bowl, even when they’re universally regarded as a top five program. I don’t see exactly what Pitt’s attendance has to do with the Pitt-Penn State argument. If Pitt was the only game in town, Pitt would have a stadium that seats 100,000 people, too. There’s a reason college football is so big in places like State College, PA, Ann Arbor, MI, Columbus, OH and Austin, TX. It’s the only established big-time football those places have.

In the sports universe, Pitt football doesn’t define Pittsburgh the way Penn State football defines State College, Wolverine football defines Ann Arbor, and Gators football defines Gainesville. Steelers football defines Pittsburgh and everyone knows that. The Steelers suck this year and the Pens are good, yet the Pens are still second-page news most of the time. But I also had season tickets in 2003 to Pitt football, and I was at the VT and Miami games that year. That place was just as packed and just as loud as it was for any Steeler game I’ve ever been to. By and large, Pitt doesn’t compare with the atmosphere at a program like Notre Dame or Penn State, but not many other schools can. That doesn’t mean it can’t change and it doesn’t mean that it won’t. But again, what this all has to do with the rivalry, I’m not sure. Perhaps you can enlighten me on this one.

Oakland is the third largest business district in Pennsylvania, behind only center-city Philadelphia and downtown Pittsburgh, as noted in this article:

http://pittsburgh.about.com/cs/neighborhoods/p/oakland.htm

Not sure how that qualifies as a ghetto, oh educated one.

Erin, quite frankly you can kiss my blue and gold azz. God help you that you don’t have a daughter that goes to PSU and gets raped like Anwar Phillips girlfriend, only to have that miserable old turd get him off. Not to mention the countless drunk driving victims or assault victims that never get any justice. I was most certainly NOT exaggerating … I will rejoice at his death.

Erin, one thing I can say about Duquesne… at least they have the fortitude to play against Pitt.

ha… fortitude:
If there was a BCS berth for shitting your pants on the sideline then PSU would now be 3 time national champs.

Bmon, Those pittsburghers who drive any distance to see old PU must have attended State and drank the koolaid. - Also, there is nothing to do on Saturday afternoons in the vast majority of rural Pennsylvania, just like in State College, PA.

Andy, get off your high horse… those schools aren’t in-state, you should know that.

To end the discussion once and for all: all of Penn State should be engufled in a prairie fire.

God, I hate Penn State.

“Pitt has a pretty good basketball team, hence a higher proportion of the fan base can be found in attendance at the games.”

You obviously know nothing. At all. Our bball attendance is something like 12-14k….football is something like 40k+. To you math majors (again) that’s 3 to 4 times as many. And if our bball team played in a place with 40k seats, we would not see anything near that in attendance.

“…any sport where you can win an Olympic medal is a relevant one.”

You are making us laugh again. Stop. Please. This is about football and basketball.

“Recent history: You won the last PSU vs Pitt CFB game. Seriously, congrats. We still have the all-time series, as well as Paterno’s head-to-head record. Also, we’ve bounced back from our losing seasons and have done great things recently, including winning the Orange and Outback Bowls in successive years.”

Whats your point? Don’t want to talk about ALL the years since we’ve stopped playing? Sore spot? If your school didn’t back out we’d see what the record is. Pitt will rebound also. Hey, i’ve got an idea, why don’t we settle this on the field?

“…even though you’re playing in an semi-arguably weaker conference…”

Here we go again. The big ten has to be better because you said so. I heard they’re better than the SEC, and no one in the SEC has a chance to even beat your second best team, muchless your first best. Don’t be a moron. No one knows which conference is better. Want to argue about it? Check our conference’s bowl game record - and before you complain about the competition, remember that no one wanted to see Florida get pounded by OSU, you all wanted to see the two best teams play again - Michigan and OSU. How’d that work out for you? We have no idea who would win between WVU/LU/Rutgers in a round robin with OSU/MU/your third team (whoever that is). Oh wait - the big 11 has more fans again, so they must be better. There are more people on the big 11 band wagon, so it must be true. I’ll go with what happens on the field.

“…he could still draw up some X’s and O’s that’d make Wannstedt’s head spin…”

Once again, sounds like something we could have figured out on the field. Now we’re arguing over games you guys didn’t want to play anyways. This is so much better than actually playing them.

Also: the fact that Pittsburgh is not a cultural center on par with New York, Boston, or DC is irrelevant. The relevant comparison is entertainment options in Pittsburgh vs. entertainment options in State College and the rest of central PA. Obviously, there is a substantial difference between the two, hence the reason Pitt enjoys substantially less support from the surrounding communities than Penn State.

Why cant Pitt fans and the Senator just say the real reason Pitt wants the game, being that nobody outside of Pittsburgh notices or cares about Pitt playing WVU, ND or anyone besides Penn State. This has to be the most unique situation in college athletics. One school needing to play the other to be noticed as anything but a team noone roots for.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but has NOBODY mentioned the fact that Pitt essentially doubled the price for PSU fans (by forcing us to also buy tickets to one of the usually empty seats at any other Pitt game)? Like it or not, that was a big factor in why the rivalry died.

Can I simply say that I interned in Pitt two summers ago and found Oakland to be the most depressing place on earth. Can we all just all agree that student housing at PSU is leaps and bounds better than Pitt?

Also, Pitt fans, can you please give what you judge the quality of a football program on? Because judging from your posts, Fanbase size, Legendary Coaches and National Recognition aren’t applicable.

Finally, The Big Ten is the best overall 1A conerence in the country bar-none. If you want proof, pick the schools that you feel fall in the middle of the pack academically in the Big 10 and the Big East. Do you honestly feel the Big East school is better? You can do the same with Athletics. Let’s not forget that conference affiliation does a lot for the academic side of a school as well.

Nobody is debating whether PSU is ABLE to play Pitt in football. We just don’t WANT to play you (whether we’re in the same conference or not). In closing, PSU would much rather be in the middle-of the pack of the best conference in the country than at the top of the worst conference in the country. I guess the phrase “Success with honor” would be over your heads though.

“Forgive me if I’m wrong, but has NOBODY mentioned the fact that Pitt essentially doubled the price for PSU fans (by forcing us to also buy tickets to one of the usually empty seats at any other Pitt game)? Like it or not, that was a big factor in why the rivalry died.”

Pitt’s cheap and they know other schools travel thats why they charge PSU fans more for tickets. They will say other schools do this. But if they want to play PSU they wouldnt be doing it.

“Why cant Pitt fans and the Senator just say the real reason Pitt wants the game, being that nobody outside of Pittsburgh notices or cares about Pitt playing WVU, ND or anyone besides Penn State. This has to be the most unique situation in college athletics. One school needing to play the other to be noticed as anything but a team noone roots for.”

That’s a pretty ridiculous mischaracterization. Pitt has always drawn plenty of fans when the team has been worth watching…that just hasn’t happened for about the last 4-5 years.

Let me put this in “High-school” terms for the Pitt-fans:
Up until the last decade, PSU was the hot girl that moved in from another city and, while everybody agreed she was stunning, didn’t have enough time to really become part of the “in-crowd”. In that time, PSU hung out with a bunch of unpopular boys that she was never actually interested in but just spent time with them because she had nothing better to do. These unpopular, and mostly unattractive (we’re talking about people from Pittsburgh, remember) boys mistook this behavior as actually having intrest in them.

However one day came when the popular table in the cafeteria had an extra seat and PSU was quickly invited to fill it. PSU couldn’t turn the offer down to move upwards on the social ladder and happily resided at the table with the other Big-10 hotties. PSU had some troubles in the popular group. Instead of going to the dance with the starting quarterback, she went with the starting running-back. Instead of winning Prom-queen, PSU got runner-up. The table full of ugly and dorky boys (Pitt fans) spent the rest of high-school pestering PSU with her “shortcomings” in a futile attempt to have her come sit back at the loser table.

Pitt fans, if you spent less time pestering the hottie that’s out of your league, you might be able to nail that girl in the back row of your chem class that has a face-full of pimples and 30 extra pounds. Your conference losses this year included South Florida and UConn for Christ’s sake.

Dear Pat,

You’re a dick - please leave.

Sincerely,
All Pitt Fans

“…Pitt fans, can you please give what you judge the quality of a football program on?”

Record and programs you play - you want to say you’re like OSU and USC, but they have double digit wins almost every year. You have had losing seasons more often than not the last 7 years. EVEN PITT HAS NOT HAD AS MANY LOSING SEASONS AS YOU THE LAST 7 YEARS. Congrats on your 1 good year.

“Finally, The Big Ten is the best overall 1A conerence in the country bar-none. If you want proof, pick the schools that you feel fall in the middle of the pack academically in the Big 10 and the Big East. Do you honestly feel the Big East school is better?”

‘because i said so’ is your only reason. You’re a moron. Lets go with on the field. I’ll take the SEC last year. Or are you guys better than them too?

No Pitt is more like the ugly girl in high school that cant get any and pesters the popular guy because everyone else likes the popular guy. noone likes Pitt.

Just to throw this out there:

Big East: 5-0 in bowl games

Big Ten: 2-5 in bowl games (last year)

Yes, Pitt did not go to a bowl, and Penn State did win theirs, and they deserve some credit for that. But come on, the Big Ten’s “top tier” teams were utterly embarrased (see USC v. Michigan, and OSU v. Florida in the National Championship). Come on, sure the Big 10 is an OKAY conference, but the Big East is catching up while the Big 10 had a terrible year and was expsoed at the top. PSU is still a decent distance away from being competitive against top tier D1 teams, like it or not.

And oh yeah, PSU lost to three teams who got embarrased in BCS bowl games, including Notre Dame, Michigan, and Ohio State. PSU will be better this year, but they’re not going to consistently win against big-times teams anytime in the near future.

Bowl record withstanding i would still take the Big Ten over Loiusville, WV and whatever else slop left you call a conference.

psu fans dont care about Pitt??? yet you are all visiting a Pitt blog site and arguing relentlessly. Sounds like you care a little bit. Is it really prestigious to graduate from a school whos most notable program is making ice cream??? You want to talk about legendary coaches…Pop Warner….you want to talk about HOF’ers…Marnio, Dorsett, Ditka…those are legends…. you want to talk about national titles…9….. Go back to being mediocre in a mediocre conference. Big Ten is the 1A conference??? pleeeeaaase two national champions since 1990 doesnt sounds all that impressive to me…oh wait guess how many the BE has since 1990??? 2

How comes Lousiville and WV can get their act together and win but Pitt cant do anything but beg for an OOC team to play them every year? Pitt isnt currently worth any rival.

And the 2 BE NC winners left because Pitt is irrelevent. Why didnt you come up with a new conference name after the split anyway. MAC East sounds good.

They left because Pitt is irrelevant???? Yes thats what they said at the press conference that day I forgot. I did come up for a new name for you andy….Dick Head

Wow this is a dumb discussion, but for the record, Erin:

According to http://college.mychances.net
Pennsylvania State University
SAT Range: 1836 - 2066
GPA Range: 3.54 - 3.83

University of Pittsburgh
SAT Range: 1965 - 2175
GPA Range: 3.50 - 3.94

According to princetonreview.com
PSU:
SAT - Verbal Range (25-75%): 520-620
SAT - Math Range (25-75%): 560-660
Students in top 10% of HS class: 37%

Pitt:
SAT - Verbal Range (25-75%): 560-660
SAT - Math Range (25-75%): 570-670
Students in top 10% of HS class: 43%

Those are for main campuses for both schools. So I guess you were wrong when you said “And yes, getting in as a freshman to Penn State main campus requires a far higher GPA and SAT score than it does to get into Pitt’s main campus.”

12 - 0.

We probably should applaud the Pat kid for being able to type all that with one hand and sticky keyboard.

I reiterate, when the old turd finally dies (the sooner the better, for society’s sake), these schools will immediately play again. Then the arguments will be validated (or not) for either side. Far more importantly, maybe some of the rapists and DUI’s and assaults in State College will actually be prosecuted. Nahhh, not likely. That’s one area where PSU fits in perfectly with the rest of the Big Ten … Mo Clarett = Anwar Phillips. But then again, geez, even tOSU was finally shamed enough to get rid of Clarett. Paterno makes his rapists and drunks into his team captains.

Bmon–Like I said, I have lived in State College for 23 years and I drive 132 miles to Heinz Field for my football Saturdays (since there’s nothing else to do in Happy Valley on a Saturday!). Maybe the quality of football isn’t quite as good (right now) but the quality of fans far exceeds anything that sits in Beaver Stadium.

yea, this rivalry sounds dead. what i hate the most about psu fans (and theres alot to choose from) is the arrogance. its easy to see here, especially if they are arguing that wrestling is more relevant than mens basketball.

i hope psu burns to the ground

How many graduates does Pitt send to elite jobs…ya know, like Wall Street? I’m one, and there are literally hundreds of other PSU grads down here…yet I haven’t met a SINGLE person who went to Pitt…or are all of you “dahn er at” some retarded place with all of “yinz” friends…idiots, learn to speak…PS - Ian Snell for president

The plural of “anecdote” is not “data,” Joe. I would have to wonder just how “elite” a job you have, based on the intellect apparent in that statement. Mopping the floors at Goldman Sachs is still mopping floors, my lad.

Joe - if all of the hundreds of PSU grads are anything like you (and by like you I mean a giant douchebag), then I pray to god that there are no Pitt grads down there with you that would have to endure such douchebagness.

saying PSU fan and douchebag is redundant.

“I reiterate, when the old turd finally dies (the sooner the better, for society’s sake), these schools will immediately play again.”

Immediately play again? Noone in the AD cares about Pitt. Putting the blame on Joe because Pitt fans know he is the only person with enough power at PSU to reinstate the series. Noone else cares. It is kind of sad, but it doesnt appear to bother Joe very much. Unfortunately for Pitt, their last link to PSU will be gone forever when Joe retires.

First of all, Pitt doesn’t need PSU either. WVU and Louisville have been better programs over the last couple of years. ND is currently a better program than PSU. Rutgers has greatly improved. There are plenty of people to play. But Penn State does seem a bit like fish out of water in the big ten.

and that Eastern Sports conference think is ridiculous. Pitt had a great and improving hoops team. Syracuse, BC, all these other teams they competed with were going to the Big East. Penn State NEEDED Pitt because it provided them direct access to a major sports market. They needed a Philly team. They need a NYC team. but the other teams were leaving and Pitt had to make a decision. It was the right one at the time and I think it still is. Maybe not the best FOOTBALL decision, but Pitt had just ripped up the A-8 and was ready to step it up in hoops.

But Pitt and Penn State are very different places and attract different types of kids. But it’s ALL about perspective.

For example, if you ask a kid from GW or NYU, they are going to tell you PSU is homogeneous and boring. If you ask a kid from ASU or UT, they are going to tell you the girls at PSU are horrible looking. If you ask a kid from WVU or UW (Madison), they are going to tell you PSU is lame. If you ask a kid from CMU or Cornell, they are going to tell you PSU kids are morons.

If you ask a kid from Pitt, they are going to tell you PSU is boring and in the middle of nowhere. If you ask a kid from PSU, they are going to tell you Pitt is a dump.

But if you grew up in rural Pennsylvania, and went to PSU thinking it was or is some crazy time, I’m sorry, but you have NO perspective and don’t know what in the heck you are talking about. Much in the same way that if you grew up in Yinzerville and have never been out of the mid-atlantic area, you can’t really speak to the merits of Pittsburgh as a city.

Although, for those of us fortunate to have done a lot of traveling, Pittsburgh is a pretty amazing place and we’re sticking to it.

Dear andy,
In all sincerity (and by that i mean none), you’ve said no one cares about Pitt about 12 times in the last day. If you and everyone else at PSU doesn’t care please get off our board and go back to your “elite” jobs that no one at Pitt can secure…even though we leadthe state of PA (yes including Penn)in Rhodes, Marshall, and Goldwater Scholars since 2003. Damn, we suck!

All I heard in 93 was how much Penn State was going to dominate the Big Ten.

They won the conference in 94, and shared the conference in 2005.

I’m sure Paterno figured joining the Big Ten would expand his recruiting base, but all it really did was open Pennsylvania up to traditional Big Ten powers.

I’m sick of Penn State fans.

I’m sick of hearing about Penn State’s tradition.

I’m sick of Penn State fans trying to compare their tradition, program, and status to that of the Wolverines.

11 National Championships.
42 Big Ten Championships
Highest winning % in college football history.
Most all-time wins.

Michigan football is everything Penn State would wish it could be, except somehow, Penn State thinks it already is.

Since Penn State joined the conference they have 2 championships, Michigan has 5.

Michigan has beaten Penn State the last 8 times we played. We did not play in 03 and 04, I don’t recall Penn State being particularly good those years. The Big Ten’s scheduling quirks saved Penn State from 10 straight losses to Michigan. PSU comes to Ann Arbor in 07, the streak is likely to continue.

While we finish the season in college football’s premiere game, you are trying to convince yourself that our little brother is a rivalry game. That makes me smile.

I think Penn State should play Pitt, because it will always be the Big 2 in the Big Ten.

Sorry Tdemps but if someone activly seeks Joe’s demise on here i will continue to hang around and share my oppinion on the matter of Pitt’s total insignificance outside Pittsburgh. JoePa be damned.

“I think Penn State should play Pitt, because it will always be the Big 2 in the Big Ten.”

Too bad noone asked you. There are many rivals worthy of PSU but Pitt isnt one of them.

“Just to throw this out there:

Big East: 5-0 in bowl games

Big Ten: 2-5 in bowl games (last year)

Yes, Pitt did not go to a bowl, and Penn State did win theirs, and they deserve some credit for that. But come on, the Big Ten’s “top tier” teams were utterly embarrased (see USC v. Michigan, and OSU v. Florida in the National Championship). Come on, sure the Big 10 is an OKAY conference, but the Big East is catching up while the Big 10 had a terrible year and was expsoed at the top. PSU is still a decent distance away from being competitive against top tier D1 teams, like it or not.

And oh yeah, PSU lost to three teams who got embarrased in BCS bowl games, including Notre Dame, Michigan, and Ohio State. PSU will be better this year, but they’re not going to consistently win against big-times teams anytime in the near future.”

Comment by Nick in State College 04.16.07 @ 8:25 pm

I think Nick makes a great point. The Big 11 is good but not great in either BB or FB. Just ask Florida. Neither championship game was much of a contest. The recent bowl games show that the Big East is improving.

1) The Pitt-PSU game will resume when both sides find it advantageous to do so. I certainly do not think that Pitt or PSU’s recruiting is suffering because they are not playing. LeSean McCoy did not seem to care.

2) In BB, Pitt finished with the 5th toughest schedule and 5th for overall RPI despite having PSU on the schedule.

http://teamrankings.com/ncb/9powerratings.php3

http://teamrankings.com/ncb/8powerratings.php3

As supporters of our respective schools, we need to all move on and let PSU football fans return to focusing their thoughts on Michigan State while we find a way to beat WVU.

In hoops, after 4 out of 6 in the Sweet 16 and one of the best BB records over the past 6 years Pitt needs to finally break through to the Elite 8. For PSU BB fans……there is always the Blue-White game to look forward to…..which is generally only a month and a half after season’s end.

“According to http://college.mychances.net
Pennsylvania State University
SAT Range: 1836 - 2066
GPA Range: 3.54 - 3.83

University of Pittsburgh
SAT Range: 1965 - 2175
GPA Range: 3.50 - 3.94

According to princetonreview.com
PSU:
SAT - Verbal Range (25-75%): 520-620
SAT - Math Range (25-75%): 560-660
Students in top 10% of HS class: 37%

Pitt:
SAT - Verbal Range (25-75%): 560-660
SAT - Math Range (25-75%): 570-670
Students in top 10% of HS class: 43% ”

In response to PSU somehow being academically inferior to Pitt. I have the following evidence:
US News and World Report Rankings: Best Colleges 2007
PSU: #47
Pitt: #57

The Mychances.net prediction accuracy of the stats they put up (that had Pitt somehow being better than PSU):
Pitt: 50%
PSU: 94%

Hey Andy, who the hell is noone. It’s “no one,” you moron. The first time you did it I thought it was a mistake. But by doing it over and over on your posts, it’s obvious that you learned spelling and grammar at Penn State. So I guess the employers at those “elite jobs” don’t care if you can read or write. As long as you went to Penn State, I guess that’s enough for them.

How can anyone claim the Big Ten is the best??? Again, 2 national titles in 17 years doesnt ring all that impressive. And one of those was a co-national championship.

I know it’s been said before on here.. but it’s driving me crazy!

“PSU doesn’t need Pitt… we don’t care about Pitt up here in ‘Happy Valley’… blah blah blah.”

1. If you don’t care.. why the hell are you posting and defending your shit school if you don’t care?

2. Why are you even visiting Pitt Blather (which, in case you haven’t yet realized, is a PITT sports website)?

And Greg- I agree.. the, “noone,” was annoying me more than the fact that these penn state kids think they’re the best thing since sliced bread.

I’d like to take this time to share one of my favorite penn state quotes… “If Penn State were to hire a new head coach and give Paterno a field pass, hed never know the difference.”

I’m tired of hearing about Pitt’s 9 national championships so let’s take a look:
http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html

1981 - The National Championship Foundation (which also gave national titles to Texas and SMU). For what it is worth, I guess PSU should count 1981 as a National Championship season too because we got the Dunkel National Championship. Clemson was the real AP national champ.
1980 - National champs by DeVold, FACT, Football Research and the NY Times. The real AP national champ was Georgia.
1976 - Legit AP National Champ
1937 - Legit AP National Champ
1936 - Joke. Boand, Football Research and Houlgate national champs. The real AP national champ was Minnesota.
1931 - Joke. Parke Davis national champ (Parke Davis also gave a national championship to Purdue that year). The real national champ was USC.
1929 - Joke. Parke Davis again…woohoo! The real national champ was Notre Dame.
1918 - Joke. The National Championship Foundation gave the national title to both Pitt and Michigan. Michigan also got the Billingsley national championship; Pitt also got the Helms and Houlgate national titles. We are talking 1918 here!
1916 - As legit as a 1916 national title can be (I guess) - another Parke Davis but also the Helms, Houlgate, and National Championship Foundation.
1915 - Joke. Another Parke Davis. Cornell was the real national champ.
1910 - Joke. National Championship Foundation. Harvard was the real national champ.

So…I see two legit national championships. Throw in the fact that Pitt has a losing record since the 48-14 beating in November of 1981 and has not had a 10 win season in over 25 years. CONCLUSION - Pitt football is a joke!

Ok, lets say your ridiculous argument is correct….how many of those joke championships did penn state win???

“Forgive me if I’m wrong, but has NOBODY mentioned the fact that Pitt essentially doubled the price for PSU fans (by forcing us to also buy tickets to one of the usually empty seats at any other Pitt game)? Like it or not, that was a big factor in why the rivalry died.”

Andy, you’re full of crap. Pitt still charges a premium for the marquee games, example Notre Dame. Pitt-ND is about to begin a 8-game series next season. Keep reaching for excuses.

Ah, yes… the Penn Staters have come for our national titles.

Well it’s about time, PSU.
Penn State didn’t have much to say about Pitt’s national titles back in the day…

1976 - 11/26/1976 v. PSU W 24-7
1937 - 11/20/1937 v. PSU W 28-7
1936 - 11/ 7/1936 v. PSU W 34-7
1931 - 10/31/1931 v. PSU W 41-6
1929 - 11/28/1929 v. PSU W 20-7
1918 - 11/28/1918 v. PSU W 28-6
1916 - 11/30/1916 v. PSU W 31-0
1915 - 11/13/1915 v. PSU W 28-0
1910 - 11/24/1910 v. PSU W 11-0

But you would rather bitch about Pitt’s teams rather than play Pitt’s teams. Fine, have fun with your land grant championships.

…and you forgot 1917. 9-0-0

Pitt -28 PU -6

Are you seriously bragging about national championships from 1910 - 1937? Only one or arguably two of those were legit anyway. Most of them were Parke Davis national championships - whatever in the hell that is???

By the way, I saw the Blue-Gold game drew an impressive 2,103 people. Did they announce the attendance or just introduce all of the people that showed up?

I love how psu fans always say most of those titles didnt count. Well how come penn st didnt win any back then??? Just because it happened before 1950 doesnt mean it is erased. Its part of our tradition. you people from psu can honestly say you dont want to play pitt again…get real.

Using only the sources from the National Championship Foundation or the “consensus” champion, the following teams have won the most championships since 1901:

Notre Dame 13 1924, 1929, 1930, 1938, 1943, 1946, 1947, 1949, 1953, 1966, 1973, 1977, 1988

Alabama 11 1925, 1926, 1930, 1945, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1992

USC 11 1928, 1931, 1932, 1939, 1962, 1967, 1972, 1974, 1978, 2003, 2004

Oklahoma 9 1949, 1950, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1974, 1975, 1985, 2000

Michigan 7 1901, 1902, 1932, 1933, 1947, 1948, 1997

Ohio State 7 1942, 1944, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 2002

Minnesota 6 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960

Miami 5 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001

Nebraska 5 1970, 1971, 1994, 1995, 1997

Pittsburgh 5 1916, 1918, 1936, 1937, 1976

Georgia Tech 4 1917, 1928, 1952, 1990

Harvard 4 1910, 1912, 1913, 1919

Tennessee 4 1938, 1950, 1951, 1998

Texas 4 1963, 1969, 1970, 2005

Funny I dont see psu anywhere…

Rex, you must have forgotten. PSU fans don’t look at any football in the years B.P.

Pat, you forgot to finish your story….So when the beautiful girl finally made it to the table with all of the cool guys, the coolest guys bent her over that table on a regular basis, and she loved it. When Pat saw how much fun she was having he asked to take her place and he loved it too! As for why PSU does not play Pitt, basically it’s not in their best interest to do so (same for playing WVU, MD, the Cuse, etc). PSU needs as many home games as they can schedule to help pay for all of their sports programs. Why play Pitt on a 1 for 1 when Temple will take a 1 for 3 deal. The fans that should be mad are the PSU fans who will continue to be fed a steady diet of Fla Int, Buffalo, Temple, etc. for the price of their $55 per game ticket. Interestingly, that’s almost double the price of a single game ticket at Pitt.

Rex - if national titles in 1916, 1918, 1936 and 1937 get you off, then congrats. I tend to care more about (1) the events of my lifetime and (2) the national perception of my team.
If I were a Pitt fan, I would probably tout the PRE-WORLD WAR II national titles too considering how pitiful the past 25 years have been and how Pitt doesn’t matter in the national picture.

Also, I know that both Penn State and Pitt have each only played in one BCS bowl, but PSU won their game and Pitt sparked a national debate that almost cost their conference an automatic BCS bid. Face it - Pitt football is a complete and total joke.

Pitt: No 10 win seasons since 1981… that is almost incomprehensible and proves that Penn State is correct in not succumbing to a yearly OOC game with an inferior rival.

PSU succumbs to OCC games with inferior rivals every year jackass. Temple and Buffalo come to mind…I’m not sure you could find two teams who are perennially worse than them. Do us a favor Andy and go back to whatever sad existence it is that you lead. Is changing JoePa’s diaper on the to-do list today? Noone (do they offer Hooked on Phonics at PSU?) cares about your opinions on here - it’s a Pitt site.

Keep on playing in the mediocre Big 11 and pretending you are one of the big boys. You lose every year to the only 3 good teams in the conference. What are you proving??? you can beat indiana and illinois every year….again very impressive. penn state lost all national crediblity when your coach shit himself on the sideline.

In the past 25 years, they have a losing record in football. During that time span, they have not had a 10-win season. In addition, while they have built a nice basketball program (which I wish Penn State would commit itself to doing), they have NEVER, EVER made it past the Sweet 16. Heck - during recent tournaments, they have choked against the likes of Kent State, Bradley and Pacific.

I have enjoyed this give-and-take. Pitt fans (is that an oxymoron?) make me laugh. Have a good day.

A PSU fan criticizing Pitt basketball…unreal. Go get in line to sniff Joe’s dirty diaper.

Sorry, just can’t stay away. A few things:

“Power” teams: East Carolina, Kansas State, Western Michigan, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest. These are the mighy foes vanquished by Big East teams. You’re telling me that the likes of OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, PSU and Purdue/Iowa/Minnesota couldn’t have gone 5-0 there? Let’s look at it in a tier system:

OSU vs Wake - Hmmm, I wonder?
Mich vs GT - Be for real
Wisc vs K-State - Didn’t they beat Arkansas??
PSU vs W. Mich - C’mon now.
Purdue vs E. Carolina - I think Northwestern could win this game!

Stop hanging your hat on your bowl record. Only ONE of the Big Least’s opponents was ranked at the end of the year, and that was the ACC champ for crying out loud!! Yes, the ACC. Possibly the only major conference WORSE than the Big East. Congrats.

Big Bad Big East: Your top team lost to Rutgers. Your second best team lost to USF and Louisville. Your third best team lost to Cincy and WVU, both who were starting backup QB’s. Perhaps this is why they played in the Texas Bowl? I’m not impressed. That’s not a deep conference, that’s a mediocre conference.

Compare that to the Big 10, which had FOUR teams playing on New Year’s Day or after, including two BCS games. Why do they get such great bowl affiliations? Could it POSSIBLY be because they’re a respected conference? Nah, couldn’t be, makes too much sense!! I’m not claiming they’re better than the SEC (although they did go 2-1 against them in bowls, but I digress), but they’re no worse than the 2nd or 3rd best conference in the country.

Pitt bball: Hey, you guys are PRETTY good. Of course, in bball, to quote Talladega Nights, “If you’re not first, you’re last!” You guys didn’t win your conference and didn’t get out of the Sweet 16, yet you would call yourselves a successful program. Hmm, PSU football finished 4th in their conference and beat a team they weren’t supposed to beat in a bowl game. The year before, they won a BCS game and finished 3rd in the country. That’s called exceeding expectations. So your banner sports team chokes while ours overachieves. Not to mention we succeed more than admirably in MANY other sports. Of course, according to Stuart, these are just JV sports because they disprove his “points.” Remember, when arguing, ignore anything that proves you wrong!!

All biases aside, you guys need a reality check. You used to be a marquee team, but that was over 25 years ago. Since that time, PSU has been mopping the floors with you. Ask anyone NOT from Pitt or PSU “Who’s the major player in CFB?” and they will unfailingly reply “PSU, of course!!” We DON’T need this rivalry!! Prove that you belong in our metaphorical league, and then come calling. Until then, you’re not better than Buffalo or FIU in our eyes.

Oh, and way to stay classy guys. Yeah, JoePa should die. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Oh, it’s our friend Eric again. I beg of you, again, go back to you “Top 10 Law School” job and quit wasting all of your valuable time here on a Pitt site. Please let me know which firm you are employed by so that I can avoid it at all costs. I would be very upset to know that my lawyer was trolling Pitt sites while he was supposed to be working on my case. If by PRETTY good you mean being one of the 5 winningest programs this decade - then yes, I would say the Pitt bball team is PRETTY good.

I don’t wish JoePa death…just more poop in his pants.

Eric, you are such an ass with no perception of reality that there is no way to even begin to respond to your bullshit post. Your coach shit himself on the sideline and you havent won a meaningful game in football or basketball in 20 years…end of story.

I love penn state fans -

“Hey, instead of playing the games, we’ll go over what should happen on the internet if we did…”

PLAY THE FUCKING GAMES YOU PATHETIC BITCHES - THAT’S ALL WE’RE ASKING FOR - LET’S FIND OUT WHO WINS ON THE FIELD.

I don’t care if you think the big11 is better than the b’east or the acc is the worst or the sec only has one team or blah blah blah

PLAY THE FUCKING GAMES. ON THE REAL FIELD.

and now your defense is your football program overacheived against our basketball program. How do you make any fucking sense? You end barely ranked and we’re a top 15 team. You’re a joke. Go away.

Hey Erin, go suck an egg…

The University of Pittsburgh’s School of Law is in the 1st Tier….that in my opinion is pretty good.

Your medical school is on the same level as Indiana Hospital….I’m sure you’re very proud.

Let’s see, I seem to remember Penn Staters throwing ice balls at an opposing team during the game and also plastic bottles….no but that never happens in Happy Valley…as for the bus incident, it’s called home field advantage, shame we still don’t have Pitt stadium..

So to summarize, go jump off Mt. Washington…you PSU snob

Don’t worry, Panther fans. At least you’ll always lead the league in empty yellow seats.

Good luck trying to get past South Florida and Cincy in the Big East standings next year! Beware the mighty Bearcats!

Yup, basically the responses I respected. This debate has clearly degraded to the point where your school’s jealousy couldn’t be any more evident. Your grasp at relevance is noble and all, but your ability to examine and process facts is deplorable.

No big games in football? What were the Orange and Outback Bowls? What was the 1994 season? Even Pitt fans should be embarrassed by your lack of knowledge.

PLAY THE FUCKING GAMES!! Yeah, we’re interested in playing a team who, even though they lose to UConn, won’t admit they’re an inferior football school. Understand your place on the hierarchy and get back to us.

Top 5 winningest programs this decade? How about one of the greatest choke artists around. Seriously, when was your last NC in ANYTHING??

Oh, and Matt. I could give two shits abotu law school or big jobs. Those weren’t my comments. Maybe read a little more carefully.

Enjoy your mediocrity, Panther fans. It’s not going away anytime soon.

Oh yeah, and if we’re the ones with the collective superiority complex, how come we can admit when our teams (i.e. bball) suck, yet whenever Pitt football is mentioned, you can only talk about the past? Irony.

Did someone seriously call the Outback bowl a serious bowl?

FINE - BIG EAST vs. BIG TEN last year in the regular season:

Cinci - got beat by OSU, but the game was 10-7 at half, and 17-7 after the 3rd
Pitt - lost to Michigan State 38-23.
Syracuse (worst team in the BE) - lost to IOWA in OT
- Beat Illinois at Illinois 31-21
WVU - too busy beating up on the ACC
UConn - (2nd worst team) - beat IU at IU
Rutgers - beat Illinois 33-0 away and was up 30-0 at half
South florida - didn’t play

So it’s pretty even.

And again, we can only argue football b/c PSU hoops is a joke.

The bottom line is not that PSU needs Pitt, it’s that they are AFRAID of playing Pitt. Why else schedule home and home (yes, 1 for 1 deals) with teams like Syracuse?

This has NOTHING to do with wanting to make money. They have signed deals with other teams for home and home series. They are afraid of getting beat by Pitt.

No, it’s not even. Cincy and Pitt are, sadly, some of the better teams in your conference. Illinois and Indiana are 2 of the worst 3 teams in the Big 10.

Afraid of Pitt? Again, YOU LOST TO UCONN!! YOU LOST TO MSU!! JoePa CRUSHES Pitt!! No, the problem is that you would never accept a deal that makes you look like a lesser team (i.e. Buffalo), even though you are. PSU is on the rise, and Pitt is mired in mediocrity. Dude, you got nothin’.

I like how the only comebacks Pitt fans have is “duechebag” or Joe going to the bathroom, or law school ratings, meanwhile they have nothing to say about Pitt football being a joke. Which it is.

Pitt hoops is far superior to state’s team. All of my (good) friends who are state graduates readily admit that. I remember just two years ago we were leading state 42-16 at half..just embarrassing.

I don’t think dude is comparing state’s hoops deficiencies to Pitt’s football deficiencies-if he is, he is obviously just a jack ass-just as there are other jack asses that represent other schools (including ours).

The evolution of college football and conference play coupled with Pitt’s (the administration) pathetic efforts in football from (‘86-‘99) have killed this series. Joe Pa now has an opportunity to get other schools 2 for 1. I don’t blame him for doing it but I don’t blame Pitt for not settling-although we’ve had some down years, we are definitely not a third class program such as Buffalo and the likes. We shouldn’t agree to play anyone 2 for 1.

I would like us to play again and perhaps the solution could be first game at state (split revenues) and then whoever wins keeps home field advantage.

Uh, the top four teams were WVU, Louisville, South florida, and Rutgers.

And JoPa having the opportunity to get other schools 2 for 1 is just a complete lie. they signed up for a 1 for 1 with Syracuse in 08 and 09. they signed up for a 1 for 1 with Alabama in 09 and 2010.

So this idea that they wouldn’t play Pitt because they could generate more revenue elsewhere is just made up. they could’ve play Pitt if they wanted to, but they chose not to. They would’ve certainly gotten prime TV money for the games, too. but they’ve chosen NOT to make more money playing Pitt. why? only PSU administrators and/or JoPa knows, but the truth is probably closer to the fact that he is afraid to get beat by Pitt b/c it will make it tougher to recruit against Pitt.

JoPa hates Pitt and wants to see the football program die. no secret there. He feels that the LAST thing he wants to do is get the game on National TV and then lose. It would be embarrassing to him, like it was the last time. Frankly, that is why Pitt fans don’t like PSU fans.

PSU is not avoiding Pitt b/c they are making money elsewhere, they are simply afraid to lose to the team. Simple as that.

Funny how Pitt hoops has everything to lose by playing PSU. Yet they play because they feel that it is in the interest of their fans and the area.

Once again, if by “JoePa CRUSHES Pitt” you mean he scored 0 points in our last meeting, then yes, he CRUSHES us.

PLAY THE FUCKING GAMES YOU TURDS.

Or instead you can schedule home-and-homes with temple, syracuse, alabama, etc…

I’m just glad that we’re going to be undefeated against you in this decade. Talk all the shit you want, READ THE FUCKING SCOREBOARD. I DON’T CARE WHO WE LOSE TO, CAUSE WE DON’T FUCKING LOSE TO YOU.

The funny thing is nobody on here is claiming Pitt is a great football team right now. Show me one person that has? I think its obvious to most of us that we havent been great for 20 years. The difference is that psu does seem to think they are some elite program - which they are not. Over the past 20 years psu has had moderate success at best with glimpses here and there of a top program. If you really want to get down to it. Go and look at the last 10 seasons of psu football…you lose every year to the 3 best teams in the Big 11, beat up on the cupcakes and beat up on 4 non con gimmes. How many meaningful wins has your program had since 1986???? By meaningful I mean how many national title games have you played in? How many have you won? Zero does not equal an elite program. Really its time to jump off your high horse and be realistic about what penn state is: a middle tier team in an average to above average conference - nothing less nothing more.

Yup, it wouldn’t be a Stuart-post without reference to Pitt’s ONE moment of football glory in the past 25 years. The fact that you still cling to ONE game where you beat us (where as we consider this a dead rivalry) speaks greatly of your NEED for this series vs ours.

Now, one last time for ya Stuart: when I say JoePa crushes Pitt, what I mean is that he has more than three times as many wins as he does losses against them. If the Pitt bball team (sticking with a Pitt team with at least some national relevance) beat a team 90-30, would you not consider that a “crushing” loss for whatever patsy you scheduled? Sorry, I say patsy because, as seen all too recently, we know you can’t do that to a team like UCLA. What is your definition of “crush,” Stuart? You need some real perspective dude. Although, I love how you blast our scheduling of Syracuse (um, they’re in your tough conference big guy) and Alabama (good team with Nick Saban as head coach, what a cupcake).

Ryan, I will grant you that you are the most correct out of all these guys. However, you think we’re “scared to lose.” No. While we would stand to lose credibility with a defeat at the hands of Pitt, we are by no means scared of a team who loses to UConn and MSU. The truth is that we (the administration) could really care less about this rivalry. Don’t want it, don’t need it. That’s why you guys fail to understand.

Rex, anyone from PSU will admit that this has been a rocky decade, to say the least. However, we’ve done some pretty great things the past two years, and the proverbial cupboards are still full, if you get my meaning. Onto your “meaningful game” argument. Firstly, the NC isn’t the only meaningful game, that’s just stupid. I guess that means there is only one meaningful game the ENTIRE YEAR, and every team should just quit if they don’t make it there. Yup, Boise State sure had nothing to play for against Oklahoma, but I digress.

Meaningful games: well, I could give you our undefeated season in 1994, but why bother? There wasn’t a NC back then, so I guess that was a meaningless accomplishment. How about two years ago, when we went 11-1 and beat OSU, Wisconsin and FSU in the Orange Bowl? Ya know, the year when we weren’t even ranked to begin.

How about last year, when we went 9-4 IN A REBUILDING YEAR!! This is only two more losses than USC had in their rebuilding year, and only ONE more loss than the defending national champs (at the time), Texas. But no, we don’t stack up to the big boys. Yeah, we struggled against OSU, Mich, ND and Wisc, BUT WE WEREN’T EXPECTED TO BEAT THEM THIS YEAR!! We also weren’t expected to win the Outback Bowl, but Morelli stepped it up and we smacked favored Tennessee (another irrelevant team, right guys?) in the mouth.

We have almost all of the key players coming back this year, and Morelli finally seems to “get it.” (Sidebar: don’t be mad because he changed his mind on you. Not our fault he recognized quality.) We had another great recruiting class (not that those always turn out how you expect, but nonetheless a decent indicator), and ppl from last year’s class are already filling holes admirably. What about you?

Oh right, you absolutely wasted the “Tyler Palko” era. You went 6-6 in a year when you should’ve been contending for the Big East championship. Don’t blame Walt Harris’ recruiting. Blame your coach for not getting the most out of your talent. You shouldn’t have been 6-6, but you were. We shouldn’t have been 9-4 (should’ve by all rights been worse), but we were. That’s the difference, and I’m sorry you can’t grasp that. I’m also sorry that you can’t reconginze a program returning to prominence, in a conference that is a LOT better than your own. You guys need a reality check.

Eric/Erin -

The one who needs a reality check is you. You are on a Pitt site blasting our team and think that you are going to get rational responses/arguments from a bunch of obsessed Pitt fans. Wake up jackass…go away.

I can’t believe how much time you have devoted to this - you really should be embarrassed. There are more important things going on in the world right now - if you don’t get that then I really do feel sorry for you. This is a Pitt site, where Pitt fans can discuss their teams. Nobody here really cares what some PSU fan has to say…I know you think your posts are relevant and important, but they aren’t. Go back to whatever it is you do, and don’t come back. We would be better off…

The Vegas over/under for # of PSU fans who would post on this thread (on a Pitt site) is 62. Right now we are at 46 and I bet the over. Please keep posting so I can make some $$$ and pay my taxes. Also, if it gets to 90 Chas might change the background colors to black and pink.

Eric,
If this is a dead rivalry then why are you writing on this board?

I’m a Pitt fan who (from a Pitt football standpoint) really could care less if we play PSU again. Pitt does not need to play PSU to ‘raise’ the program. The Big East is rising and will be fine in next ten years as will Pitt. Any notation that PSU is that head and shoulders above Pitt is just emotions talking and not based in reality.

But as a college football fan I wish they would play again. For those of us who remember what those games were like in late 70’s and 80’s it’s a crying shame they still don’t play. All the PSU friends I have who went to those games agree. It was just as big a Steeler playoff game in the area. Pitt still gets a taste of what that was like with WVU but not quite the same…. WVU fans seem to take away any class the game might had held.

The big problem I see is the younger fans never lived through those games so they don’t know what they are missing and like some on this board will easily dismiss the game as not being needed.

Is the game needed??? …no of course not..for either team. But if you are a college football fan in this area then you should want this game. Which is why it’s a shame we as college football fans have to be held hostage by one old guy.

I agree the game is not needed for Pitt…I actually think most PSU fans are ashamed of the real reason JoPa won’t schedule this game. So they dance around the real reason and think up every excuse in the book as to why not to play the game and really come across sounding stupid. (Like PSU is doing us a favor if they play us.)
PSU folks listen up….we don’t need to play this this game either!!!!! But it should be played for both school’s benefit and the area’s benefit.

Niiiine national championships…

As long as teams that suck are willing to give PSU 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deal then they will never find room for PITT. It’s all about the $$$$$. It’s one of the reasons why they bolted for the big ten. PSU makes more $ playing OSU or Mich then they ever would playing Pitt. We don’t have the stadium to pack that many people in. We can’t put 100,000 people in the stands.

“But it should be played for both school’s benefit and the area’s benefit.”

The only area that benefits is Pittsburgh because Pitt does not sell out any games since VT and Miami left the BE. Thats not good enough reason for PSU to play in Pittsburgh every two years.

The benefit that was being talked about was the benefit of a 100+ year-old rivalry being resumed- not money.

Telling comment from a PSU fan.

As a Pittsburgh native and Penn State alum, I feel the need to point out to everyone that ‘noone’ is not a word. I believe that you are trying to spell ‘no one’, as in ‘not a single person’. Let’s all try and elevate the discourse.

Go Penn State.

Dan,
Why do you feel the need to mention something that I pointed out on my post yesterday. Does it take a Penn State alum that long to read all these posts?

There are a couple of different types of games:

1) Conference games - Obviously, these must be played.
2) Rivalry games - A lot of times, these occur in-conference, but there are always the ND/USC and ND/Mich games as well. Honestly, the majority of OOC-rivalries typically occur with ND, as they donR